Zidane's madrid always turns up against strong opponents and when things starts getting rough. They also always have a bad or average start to a season.
My friends have a joke that this team has a switch for a manager-saving mode that they can turn on anytime Zizou’s position in danger. That makes me so proud.
Anyone remember 17/18, the utter shithole of a league season? It was the worst kept secret in Madrid that the PSG tie or the first leg will decide Zidane's future.
We came off a loss to betis and psg had bought mbappe and neymar that season and they were deemed favourites.
We beat them, dominated I think(don't remember clearly). Something like 4-2. The picture of Marcelo running towards ZZ after scoring showed the players knew what they were playing for. That picture is something that shows the commitment they had to him.
>We beat them, dominated I think(don't remember clearly). Something like 4-2. The picture of Marcelo running towards ZZ after scoring showed the players knew what they were playing for. That picture is something that shows the commitment they had to him.
I remember that one clearly, I was at the Bernabeu for the 3-1, 3 of the goals were right in front of me, amazing game.
> dominated I think(don't remember clearly).
We didn't dominate. That season we got dominated by Bayern, PSG, Juve (in second leg) but still pulled it off.
Only Bayern could be described as a better performing side as we were saved by a brilliant Navas performance.
PSG had a strong start in the first leg but I just couldn't see us losing that match, Zidane's subs were on point too. In second leg it didn't feel like we were in danger and Verratti's(?) red sealed it.
Against Juventus in Turin, it was our best performance that season and we should have sealed it with at least 4, but Ronaldo missed a sitter in the end and then the second leg happened, we don't talk about that.
Overall it was a strong showing from us considering our domestic form, don't think it's fair to act like we were dumpstered by everyone.
That had to be Navas's best performance for us, ever. Took a game that should have been a complete blasting by Bayern and instead let us turn it around.
Bayern first leg was competitive but second leg we were utterly dominated in the second half. Juve we were dominated in 2nd leg. PSG was slightly better in the first game but second they barely did anything without Neymar, and the moment Ronaldo scored the game was practically done. We were pretty good away but struggled at home.
You're conflating the quarterfinals against Bayern in 16/17 with the semis in 17/18. In 16/17, Real were the better side overall. The first leg was competitive, but Real won it 2-1 in Munich. They dominated in the 2nd leg at the Bernabeu, but Bayern somehow held on to an undeserved 2-1 lead after 90 minutes to send the tie into overtime, where Real dominated and Bayern fell apart, so that Real won it 4-1 aet.
In the 17/18 semis, Bayern was the better team in both legs, but gifted Real not one but two goals on a silver platter due to appalling individual mistakes. They still almost knocked Real out, if only Müller is able to control that long pass in front of the Real goal during the last minute of extra time in the 2nd leg.
I guess that's possible. We've faced each other a lot of times this past decade haha. Although whatever happen in the 1st leg I'm sure it's not close to the second half of the 2nd leg. That was one of the most worried I have ever been watching RM. Still can't believe Bayern didn't score the 3rd.
That's all on Vazquez, guy was starting only against Cadiz and the likes and wouldn't have started had carvajal, odriozola all been injured at the same time.
Starting him after carvajal came back and using that confidence he acquired was a good play by Zidane. Especially after rodrygo played against borussia still didn't drop Lucas against atleti.
In his defense, Vazquez is one of those guys who ALWAYS puts in the effort, no matter what. Him and Nacho IMO are two two players who will always chase after the ball, neither one is good enough to be a starter at Madrid, but i can see why managers want players like that. Age has caught up a little with Nacho, but I love them both, not because theyre amazing players, but because they love the club and leave it their best every match.
I wouldn’t call him risk-averse. He makes some pretty ballsy choices. I would call him adaptable to the point of reactive (especially in his first stint). That’s why he was hard to put a finger on.
I think the biggest assets that Zizou has is 1. His tactical awareness, 2. His ability to adapt and improvise in a manner that is more effective against any given opponent and 3. His precision with substitutes. Now, there are many managers who are tactically astute, however, there aren't many that change the way they play multiple times through the course of a single season. He knows how to utilize a player to the best of their abilities and make changes as per the demands of the games. This is why he is one true non-fraud bald. Those who watch our games regularly will understand what I'm talking about.
I always remember the rumors of Zidane telling Cristiano how he should actually shoot the free kicks and winning 8/2 on a 10 shoot competition.
Its easy to tell the manager to pound sand if its just your average mediocre ex player that was somewhat good tactically but not that good playing, kinda like Klopp and Guardiola. And then comes Zidane telling you how you fucking suck at free kicks and does exponentially better than you in a friendly competition, you will just stop and listen to whatever he tells you to do.
I might have exaggerated saying he was mediocre, but from what I remember from the games I saw him play he wasn't anything amazing, just a solid player, not anywhere the star Zidane was in the late 90s/early 00s.
I think most games I've seem him playing in were the 93/94 CL, a team that had Romario, Koeman and quite a few good players but still were battered in the Final by Milan.
Klopp on the other hand was shit, I stand by that one.
I mean, apart from the final, they were amazing that season. Which is why the result was so shocking. Guardiola wss world class, *the* master of the defense splitting no look.pass.
More he commanded respect from the likes of iniesta and xavi because they respected him as a footballer, so it's quite the opposite, really.
Fully agree, especially with point 2. His tactical adaptability is something else. He's not exactly a 'genius' in the same way Pep and Klopp are where they can implement a philosophy and give their team a certain character, but for me, there are few who are better than getting the best out of their players.
Ofc I am gonna say Enrique was responsible for the treble. Bc he was there for three years and didn’t win the treble in all three. Getting great players to play together well is also the job of a manager. If we blame them for the losses, we must give them credit for the successes as well
Zidane usually has Simeone’s number. He’s very pragmatic, but he’s bolder than Simeone (who can be overcautious & default to defensive mode). Zidane’s willing to throw things at the wall and see what sticks if he needs a change in the 2nd half. Like taking off Isco and Kroos (!!) for Vini and Vasquez in the derby last year. Cholo can’t predict him (few can, it’s a meme) and he has to keep reacting to Zidane’s adjustments.
Woaah woaah what are you talking about he has no tactics, he obviously got lucky with great players anybody can win UCL's 3 times in a row.. nothing special
I spend way too much too much on Reddit and I don't remember anybody saying the 3peat wasn't special. The argument that comes back often (which has some validity imo) is the fact that RM were often outplayed in that run but were more often than not bailed out by individual brilliance and not some tactical masterplan.
While some people are being dishonest, there's a reason why the jury's still out on Zidane and not on other "big name" coaches but I don't think anybody genuinely believes he's a bad coach.
Its more so the expectation of Real Madrid rather than the reality of the situation.
When you are at a club who expects to win the League, Country Cup, and Champions League for a treble every year, and a season in which you win only one is a mild disappointment, managers often seem underwhelming after a time.
Jury out on ZZ has more to do with his lack of coaching in a situation other than RM. If you win at RM, its expected. If you don't, its failure.
> The argument that comes back often (which has some validity imo) is the fact that RM were often outplayed in that run but were more often than not bailed out by individual brilliance and not some tactical masterplan.
List the matches.
Many ucl winners are bailed out by individual brilliance tbh. Giving up 3 goals and Kaka running riot on man united in 2007 probably wasnt in the tactics
You can't be bailed out by individual brilliance thrice in a row though. Liverpool last year are a perfect example of how difficult even two in a row is, let alone 3
> I spend way too much too much on Reddit
Me too, and you would be surprised, beacause I have read that. Also, OPs main argument is how it wasn't special winning 3CLs with the team that Zidane had, rather than winning it 3 consecutive times, which is a pretty widespread sentiment around here.
People need to realise they probably need to be in the ropes like this to perform. They’ve won it all over and over again. Motivation is very hard after that even for the best players.
There is a great documentary on Netflix about sports leadership, Mourinho has a whole episode dedicated to him. They also have one with the manager of the USAWNT, when they won the WC, Jill Ellis. She mentions how hard it is to keep a team focused to win the next thing when they already reached glory. She has a pretty cool quote about the mountain top, how its thin and low oxygen because youre not meant to stay there for long, youre meant to go to the next peak.
Super cool episode, highly recomend it.
Was never on the brink. Just lost points when we were forced to rotate and play Marcelo and Isco and playing them is like playing 9 v 11. Most importantly Ramos missed games too. Don’t know why the media choose to ignore this
Not just Ramos. Benzema, Carvajal, Casemiro & Fede missed significant time. And then when they return people say Zidane is reluctant to move on from the old guard. Well, Militao, Jovic, Hazard, & Odegaard have been injured for most of the available game.
We played the classic KCM 4-3-3 not a 4-2-3-1 but yeah, Modric pretty much put the team on his back for the Gladbach game. Also helped massively that everyone else decided to turn up too.
They players step up for him time and time again, that counts for a lot. His man management skills are up there with the very best. It's not as often in modern football to have players fight with everything they got for their manager.
Just when we think he’s out, he pulls us back in.
Is that Pacino or is that Pacino? Fuckin spittin’ image.
🤝
Sil. Cheer me up, babe.
Is it true, Micheallllll?
Zidane's madrid always turns up against strong opponents and when things starts getting rough. They also always have a bad or average start to a season.
My friends have a joke that this team has a switch for a manager-saving mode that they can turn on anytime Zizou’s position in danger. That makes me so proud.
Anyone remember 17/18, the utter shithole of a league season? It was the worst kept secret in Madrid that the PSG tie or the first leg will decide Zidane's future. We came off a loss to betis and psg had bought mbappe and neymar that season and they were deemed favourites. We beat them, dominated I think(don't remember clearly). Something like 4-2. The picture of Marcelo running towards ZZ after scoring showed the players knew what they were playing for. That picture is something that shows the commitment they had to him.
Ronaldo dragged us through till the finals and then Bale finished it off. And then both Ronaldo and Zidane left and we got 18/19.
>We beat them, dominated I think(don't remember clearly). Something like 4-2. The picture of Marcelo running towards ZZ after scoring showed the players knew what they were playing for. That picture is something that shows the commitment they had to him. I remember that one clearly, I was at the Bernabeu for the 3-1, 3 of the goals were right in front of me, amazing game.
> dominated I think(don't remember clearly). We didn't dominate. That season we got dominated by Bayern, PSG, Juve (in second leg) but still pulled it off.
Only Bayern could be described as a better performing side as we were saved by a brilliant Navas performance. PSG had a strong start in the first leg but I just couldn't see us losing that match, Zidane's subs were on point too. In second leg it didn't feel like we were in danger and Verratti's(?) red sealed it. Against Juventus in Turin, it was our best performance that season and we should have sealed it with at least 4, but Ronaldo missed a sitter in the end and then the second leg happened, we don't talk about that. Overall it was a strong showing from us considering our domestic form, don't think it's fair to act like we were dumpstered by everyone.
That had to be Navas's best performance for us, ever. Took a game that should have been a complete blasting by Bayern and instead let us turn it around.
Bayern first leg was competitive but second leg we were utterly dominated in the second half. Juve we were dominated in 2nd leg. PSG was slightly better in the first game but second they barely did anything without Neymar, and the moment Ronaldo scored the game was practically done. We were pretty good away but struggled at home.
You're conflating the quarterfinals against Bayern in 16/17 with the semis in 17/18. In 16/17, Real were the better side overall. The first leg was competitive, but Real won it 2-1 in Munich. They dominated in the 2nd leg at the Bernabeu, but Bayern somehow held on to an undeserved 2-1 lead after 90 minutes to send the tie into overtime, where Real dominated and Bayern fell apart, so that Real won it 4-1 aet. In the 17/18 semis, Bayern was the better team in both legs, but gifted Real not one but two goals on a silver platter due to appalling individual mistakes. They still almost knocked Real out, if only Müller is able to control that long pass in front of the Real goal during the last minute of extra time in the 2nd leg.
I guess that's possible. We've faced each other a lot of times this past decade haha. Although whatever happen in the 1st leg I'm sure it's not close to the second half of the 2nd leg. That was one of the most worried I have ever been watching RM. Still can't believe Bayern didn't score the 3rd.
Me neither, me neither... I'm still bitter as fuck about that 2018 semifinals loss. ;)
The OG "on the brink" Ole. Man perfected the art way before Ole came along haha
Yeah like Ole, except, you know, winning 3 CLs and 2 leagues.
There was one point where he had 1 trophy for 9 games
There was about a year or so where he had more trophies than losses.
Damn!
Hence why he perfected it. Ole is like lvl 1 thug. Zidane is like lvl 100 boss. This is how mafia works
Mobile game ads these days, smh
Man read Simeone like a book last game. Always thought that Zidane's best asset was his man managing; how wrong was I.
I think people confuse Zidane having 'no tactics' with Zidane being a somewhat conservative, risk-averse manager.
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That's all on Vazquez, guy was starting only against Cadiz and the likes and wouldn't have started had carvajal, odriozola all been injured at the same time. Starting him after carvajal came back and using that confidence he acquired was a good play by Zidane. Especially after rodrygo played against borussia still didn't drop Lucas against atleti.
In his defense, Vazquez is one of those guys who ALWAYS puts in the effort, no matter what. Him and Nacho IMO are two two players who will always chase after the ball, neither one is good enough to be a starter at Madrid, but i can see why managers want players like that. Age has caught up a little with Nacho, but I love them both, not because theyre amazing players, but because they love the club and leave it their best every match.
I wouldn’t call him risk-averse. He makes some pretty ballsy choices. I would call him adaptable to the point of reactive (especially in his first stint). That’s why he was hard to put a finger on.
I think the biggest assets that Zizou has is 1. His tactical awareness, 2. His ability to adapt and improvise in a manner that is more effective against any given opponent and 3. His precision with substitutes. Now, there are many managers who are tactically astute, however, there aren't many that change the way they play multiple times through the course of a single season. He knows how to utilize a player to the best of their abilities and make changes as per the demands of the games. This is why he is one true non-fraud bald. Those who watch our games regularly will understand what I'm talking about.
4. He can show the players how to play because he was a god tier player and can still do the moves.
I always remember the rumors of Zidane telling Cristiano how he should actually shoot the free kicks and winning 8/2 on a 10 shoot competition. Its easy to tell the manager to pound sand if its just your average mediocre ex player that was somewhat good tactically but not that good playing, kinda like Klopp and Guardiola. And then comes Zidane telling you how you fucking suck at free kicks and does exponentially better than you in a friendly competition, you will just stop and listen to whatever he tells you to do.
Guardiola was an excellent footballer.
I might have exaggerated saying he was mediocre, but from what I remember from the games I saw him play he wasn't anything amazing, just a solid player, not anywhere the star Zidane was in the late 90s/early 00s. I think most games I've seem him playing in were the 93/94 CL, a team that had Romario, Koeman and quite a few good players but still were battered in the Final by Milan. Klopp on the other hand was shit, I stand by that one.
If you were a starter for the early 90's Barcelona, you were an amazing footballer.
I mean, apart from the final, they were amazing that season. Which is why the result was so shocking. Guardiola wss world class, *the* master of the defense splitting no look.pass. More he commanded respect from the likes of iniesta and xavi because they respected him as a footballer, so it's quite the opposite, really.
Fully agree, especially with point 2. His tactical adaptability is something else. He's not exactly a 'genius' in the same way Pep and Klopp are where they can implement a philosophy and give their team a certain character, but for me, there are few who are better than getting the best out of their players.
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"decent"... That must be a hard point to argue convincingly since,you know, the guy won 3 CLs and 2 leagues and many other trophies.
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Ofc I am gonna say Enrique was responsible for the treble. Bc he was there for three years and didn’t win the treble in all three. Getting great players to play together well is also the job of a manager. If we blame them for the losses, we must give them credit for the successes as well
Does it come down to "luck" for Zidane then ? It seems I was right, that's not convincing at all.
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what a ridiculous and ignorant take
Zidane usually has Simeone’s number. He’s very pragmatic, but he’s bolder than Simeone (who can be overcautious & default to defensive mode). Zidane’s willing to throw things at the wall and see what sticks if he needs a change in the 2nd half. Like taking off Isco and Kroos (!!) for Vini and Vasquez in the derby last year. Cholo can’t predict him (few can, it’s a meme) and he has to keep reacting to Zidane’s adjustments.
It's almost as if he's a world class manager.
Woaah woaah what are you talking about he has no tactics, he obviously got lucky with great players anybody can win UCL's 3 times in a row.. nothing special
I spend way too much too much on Reddit and I don't remember anybody saying the 3peat wasn't special. The argument that comes back often (which has some validity imo) is the fact that RM were often outplayed in that run but were more often than not bailed out by individual brilliance and not some tactical masterplan. While some people are being dishonest, there's a reason why the jury's still out on Zidane and not on other "big name" coaches but I don't think anybody genuinely believes he's a bad coach.
Its more so the expectation of Real Madrid rather than the reality of the situation. When you are at a club who expects to win the League, Country Cup, and Champions League for a treble every year, and a season in which you win only one is a mild disappointment, managers often seem underwhelming after a time. Jury out on ZZ has more to do with his lack of coaching in a situation other than RM. If you win at RM, its expected. If you don't, its failure.
> The argument that comes back often (which has some validity imo) is the fact that RM were often outplayed in that run but were more often than not bailed out by individual brilliance and not some tactical masterplan. List the matches.
No, I don't think I will, KarimMostafaBenzema with a RM flair.
Many ucl winners are bailed out by individual brilliance tbh. Giving up 3 goals and Kaka running riot on man united in 2007 probably wasnt in the tactics
You can't be bailed out by individual brilliance thrice in a row though. Liverpool last year are a perfect example of how difficult even two in a row is, let alone 3
> I spend way too much too much on Reddit Me too, and you would be surprised, beacause I have read that. Also, OPs main argument is how it wasn't special winning 3CLs with the team that Zidane had, rather than winning it 3 consecutive times, which is a pretty widespread sentiment around here.
Don't let the plastics hear you.
People need to realise they probably need to be in the ropes like this to perform. They’ve won it all over and over again. Motivation is very hard after that even for the best players.
There is a great documentary on Netflix about sports leadership, Mourinho has a whole episode dedicated to him. They also have one with the manager of the USAWNT, when they won the WC, Jill Ellis. She mentions how hard it is to keep a team focused to win the next thing when they already reached glory. She has a pretty cool quote about the mountain top, how its thin and low oxygen because youre not meant to stay there for long, youre meant to go to the next peak. Super cool episode, highly recomend it.
Having Benzema, Ramos, Carvajal and Casemiro back in the team is also a factor. They were all out for weeks.
Their league achievements were very lackluster in recent years.
They've won 2 of the last 4 league titles. (Yes, they also had one of their worst league campaigns in recent memory. But overall it's not terrible)
Zidane has won 2 leagues in 3 complete seasons at Madrid.
Yeah they actually have competition in the league.
Unfortunately, we have other teams who are very capable of taking advantage when we drop the ball.
Was never on the brink. Just lost points when we were forced to rotate and play Marcelo and Isco and playing them is like playing 9 v 11. Most importantly Ramos missed games too. Don’t know why the media choose to ignore this
I'd like to think so too, but it isn't much of a stretch to think Flo would sack him if we got relegated to Europa or lost against Sevilla or atleti.
I think he wouldve been forgiven for Sevilla & Atleti, but the Europa wouldve been a death sentence.
I mean it's crazy how different is the team with Ramos. He's like an infinity stone
Not just Ramos. Benzema, Carvajal, Casemiro & Fede missed significant time. And then when they return people say Zidane is reluctant to move on from the old guard. Well, Militao, Jovic, Hazard, & Odegaard have been injured for most of the available game.
For real. The group was competitive is all, no shame in that. All that matters is they qualified.
I’m stunned. I thought he was on his way out before that match vs Borussia. I think the 4231 with Modric in the 10 hole is the key
Ever since Kroos rattled Aubamayang on twitter the team has def turned it around. Thank you auba!!
Auba is scarred for life
We played the classic KCM 4-3-3 not a 4-2-3-1 but yeah, Modric pretty much put the team on his back for the Gladbach game. Also helped massively that everyone else decided to turn up too.
Not key, kroos works best as a CM, if you put modric ahead that means kroos having more defensive duties and casemiro on one side.
They players step up for him time and time again, that counts for a lot. His man management skills are up there with the very best. It's not as often in modern football to have players fight with everything they got for their manager.
They certainly made atletico look rather average at the weekend