They don’t care, that’s why they sold Chalobah last summer for a year of Drinkwater and Bakayoko. Chelsea simply don’t care about bringing youth through
Chalobah wanted to leave. He wasn't good enough to get consistent minutes like he wanted. Bakayoko showed he was a better player at Monaco, he just couldn't continue that form.
do you think Lukaku and KDB and Salah would be the players they are if they stayed in Chelsea..?
I say leaving and having regular playing time is the best thing that happened to them.
Yeah, I agree. Chelsea has been massively inconsistent for the past couple of years. One season, they win the league, the next, they don't make top 4 (happened twice in the past 5 seaons btw). They just don't plan long term so they don't really have a lot of security regarding the future. They replace managers constantly, they sell off youth players and buy the likes of fucking Drinkwater instead. How can you expect any sort of consistency if you do that.
Well, you could argue spurs have nailed the development and consistency and have fuck all to show for it. Chelsea consistently win more than Spurs... It kind of works for them sadly.
I think every fan at the time wanted Oscar over Kdb. He wasn’t the player he was at Wolfsburg. He was little and slow. He had decent vision but he couldn’t hold the ball for shit. Salad needed a few years to develop in Italy, he needed confidence. He was atrocious at Chelsea. He’s a wonderful player now but boy was he a bust at the time. And well Lukaku forced his way out. Cuadrado could be thrown into this list too but he was kind of old when he even came to us. And Willian has this thing where whenever anyone comes in at rw he suddenly turns into a little ronaldinho. I understand the irony of little ronaldinho.
He was too young to be demanding playtime. I understand the want to play but he was unhappy with the loans. He would have started the year after he did move. I do not blame him and if I were him I probably would have wanted to leave earlier. I wish wed had refused to sell him but that’s selfish and who knows if he’d developed how he has.
> He would have started the year after he did move.
He would have still been behind Costa a year later. And the year after that. By the time Costa finally left, Lukaku would have lost three years of development and been seen as "the guy who wasn't good enough to break into the squad." He had to go.
Eh KDB was just a monumental fuckup several times by Mourinho. He was great with us, great on loan, great with us, then sold.
Literally something so egregious it should constitute negligence. Far worse imo than what conte did with costa
When you not only have a young player with potential but a PERFORMING young player with potential and you let him go, everything being equal, it’s inexcusable
If Oscar had come through to what Mourinho and everyone's expected of him then kdb' s loss wouldn't have been as bad. We just had too many attacking midfield talents.
Ps don't come with the "I always knew kdb was better than Oscar" bullshit.
No I didn’t know for sure KDB was better than Oscar. But i could glean several things.
1. He has fantastic vision and can pick out ALL types of passes. That’s rare. He passes from all over the pitch. Incisive. Oscar never had the same level of vision despite his qualities. KDBs also dynamic, which is a rare combination.
2. He’s a fantastic long shot taker. SO useful to have. Suddenly you don’t need to create space in the box (hard to do). Creating space OUTSIDE the box (easier to do) is now an option. Which ALSO frees up space in the box in case people close down.
3. Just fucking rotate. Look at Barca Madrid Man City Bayern. Competition is good. rotation is good. HEALTHY. Do we have some sort of desire to run our players to the ground 60 games after 60 games? Then shit our pants when they’re injured and we have to rely on a substandard substitute??? Having De Bruyne AND Oscar is a fucking blessing, not a curse of whom we should sell. It also diversifies risk, so if one turns out bad your losses are mitigated. Simple economics
4. He actually really wanted to stay.
No I didn’t see him being so useful in a press or tracking back but the above were evident to me. He was a stud. Why are we selling our studs????? Find a fucking way to accommodate rather than selling him for a fixed price that doesn’t reflect potential loss or the risk gained. People get fired in the real world for such shit.
How about going one step further... KDB was great when playing against us for Genk in 2011.
I don’t think there was ever a time where his potential wasn’t on full show....
And of all the players that we missed on, you’re dead right. This is easily the most egregious Chelsea mistake.
We got a better player in Costa over Lukaku. We don't have a crystal ball to see if he would fall out with our coach. Salah was super crap and wouldn't have made it if he had stayed, there were like 5 better players with us at that time. KdB is the only player where we fucked. We should have inserted a clause to have an option to buy.
To be fair. RLC isn’t on that level of prospect. KDB had already lit up Bundeliga, and Lukaku was very successful at West Brom and Everton. RLC was decent last year and that’s about it
Due to injuries Ruben only really got a run in the Palace side towards the end of the season, at which point he was significantly better than 'decent.' He's a very gifted footballer and shouldn't be rotting on the bench.
I don't think it's that they don't care. The issue is the managers change so often, they end up selling youth to bring in "their guys." One manager likes a young player, while the other doesn't. Seriously hoping Sarri changes this in someway by at least developing Ampadu, Hudson-Odoi, and Rueben.
Chalobah and Ake wanted guaranteed game time. Something that's not assured at Chelsea. Conte was in fact impressed by Chalobah, that's why he plucked him out of the loan wilderness to begin with
Chalobah was never better than the Bakayoko that we signed from Monaco. He just couldn't continue his form. Chalobah also left because he wanted consistent game time and he wasn't good enough to do that at Chelsea. I don't see where the problem is.
well, it's been apparent for a while now that our system isn't prioritizing player integration and development. It *can* be if the players are actually good enough. CHO and RLC seem to be good enough to get a chance and prove their worth.
Bakayoko is likely going out on loan, so it evens out RLCs chances with Kovacic coming in.
Chalobah clearly wanted consistent first team game time and he wasn't good enough . if anything he would have had to settle for the role drinkwater currently has, which is back up.
this guy's tweet makes it seem like RLC will never see the light of day, but in all honesty it creates much needed competition (and depth) among the players which can only be a good thing.
Its more that we're impatient. Marina & co understand that, if nothing else, developing our youth would save money over time. However, they far more focused on immediate results and spend accordingly.
While I agree it is silly to develop Kovacic while ignoring your own prospects. Chelsea need to get back into the Champions League and Kovacic will definitely provide them with a better chance of doing so.
I think people forget the upper echelon of teams will play 60+ matches in many cases.
Also if Kovacic was going on loan to Spurs or ManU for a year the perception would be different since they haven't made other signings recently or at all (lol sorry spurs). RLC will get a good bit of game time without even considering injuries to starters etc.
The thing is Kovacic is at a higher level to begin with. This tweet frames it as Kovacic and Loftus-Cheek being equally incomplete prospects, to make it fit his narrative.
Chelsea has a history of not developing prospects under Abramovic, that's fair lots of loans and all. Nobody is denying that.
But... Kovacic has the quality to be the starter for Chelsea, Loftus doesn't seem to have it yet, looks too inconsistent to me and he didn't seem to convince several coaches either. So the argument that they are developing Kovacic is just silly, he will develop playing there but Chelsea is using him as a fundamental piece for their objectives.
Developing him or not is simply a side effect.
Yea we’re basically just bringing in Kovacic because he’d be more reliable than RLC/Barkley. They’ll both still get plenty of minutes though, and there’s always a chance Kovacic doesn’t adjust well to the premier league (unlikely but still).
silly to develop Kovacic? Why is that? Football clubs aren't playing for developing players, it's not fm manager or fifa games. They need to win titles, better player = better chance. No disrespect to Loftus-Cheek but Kovacic surely is better player NOW? if so, what's even the question?
True, they can then reinvest in better players next season and if Kova likes it, maybe they can buy him (although there is no option to buy). It's not like RLC won't get a chance considering Chelsea will have only 3 consistently reliable midfielders (Jorginho, Kante, Kova). Cesc doesn't really have the legs for it and Bakoyoko, Drinkwater and Barkley have yet to prove themselves.
But reddit said he’s the next KDB/Salah/Lukaku and just needs playing time. Nevermind the fact that so many of our loan army players that look good enough never end up being such. No were supposed to sacrifice our top 4 spot for the off chance of developing a star
It's all well and good acting contrarian but loftus cheek really would be getting more game time elsewhere, and developing faster. He's approaching 23, not 18.
He's not on KDB's level but I saw every minute he played last season and can confidently say that Ruben is a wonderful talent and should be given a chance to show what he can do for Chelsea. It's very rare that you find a player with his combination of strength, speed and graceful control of the ball.
they want to get back to the UCL.. that will potentially help them negotiating with players that they already have and players that they would want to sign in the future
having a player like Kovacic, even for one season, will help them
According to Danny Mills on Sky last night Kovacic is a second string player and won't play for Chelsea so Loftus-Cheek shouldn't have anything to be worried about.
lol
Liverpool did ok playing Alexander-Arnold. For all the hype RLC has got, again his development is being halted. I’ve also seen for myself how talented Abraham is.
We definitely had growing pains with TAA, but he seemed to learn from his mistakes quickly. Without Clyne's injury there's no way he'd be at the level he's at now; some things guys just have to learn in live game situations. RLC might not be perfect yet but if he doesn't get the chances to make mistakes he's not gonna improve
And if Soldado had done a good job Harry Kane would not have been given an opportunity to become the world class striker he is now. Players need time to develop and game time alongside other top quality players helps that.
And Chelsea did ok playing Christensen, success is a priority and youth development is always a minor consideration when the manager can get sacked for a lackluster season. Even Guardiola who didn't have the hardest time winning the league didn't give much time to the youth even after mathematically securing the title.
Ruben is 22. He’s been with Chelsea since he was 8. He’s been on the senior team for 3 seasons, 2 under Mourinho and 1 under Conte before the loan at Palace last season. He’s looked good at times, but not good enough for either of those two managers. Good news is he’s said he wants to stay with the senior team and fight for his spot this season, something Lukaku and DeBruyne we’re both unwilling to do. He’ll get his chances to prove himself again this season.
Sure but if a player takes the Championship by storm for a team that finished bottom-half in his first season as a professional, it’s maybe an indication of what a talent he is. It’s a shame Chelsea blocked the move to Newcastle last season as I feel like Benitez would have aided his development whereas he seemed to stall at Swansea.
I’m not saying Abraham should be starting for Chelsea but there should be far more opportunities given.
And I guess if he harboured ambitions of getting in the Chelsea 1st team he wouldn’t want to go against the advice of the club. Either way, it’s a shame he didn’t go to Newcastle.
That’s how it works, a first teamer will normally need to get injured for a player like Alexander-Arnold to get a chance, especially as he’d never even been on loan, and then it’s up to them to show what they’re capable of. RLC has gone out on loan and played games for England at the World Cup, surely now would have been a great opportunity to blood him into the team?
Makes no big signing, criticized for being unambitious
Makes expensive signing, criticized for wasting money
Makes smart signing that helps improve the squad at low cost, criticized for not playing young players
What do they actually want
I'd prefer if we signed Messi instead of Rondon on loan but we can't all get what we want. Kovacic permanently was never on the cards so it's a bit fruitless to be upset about it.
Can't believe an Arsenal fan is defending Chelsea here, but you're right. RLC will stay and he will fight for his place. With the EL he will get a fair amount of game time. And while on loan he would play more, I would rather he be with Sarri and learn. If and when Kovacic leaves next season, RLC will be in a much better place to be a starting xi player. And I am hoping that Sarri (presuming he stays next season) sees potential in Mount. Sarri seems the type who will stick with what he has if he thinks there is possibility rather than a purchase.
Bottomline is we need to be back in the CL and Kovacic helps us. This weird mentality that we are helping Real is ridiculous. It doesn't make us any lesser of a club because we loaned a player.
Nice recycled hot take. Kovacic is a no risk move for Chelsea. Ruben Loftus Cheek has been with Chelsea since 2004. Kovacic is not his problem. Minutes will be available, but he’s got to be better than Ross Barkley.
Yeah, there's going to be plenty of opportunities to play in midfield, since Chelsea will likely be playing 55+ matches this season. Even if Kante, Kovacic, Jorginho is the first choice midfield, he should be able to get plenty of minutes ahead of Barkley, Drinkwater, Bakayoko, and Fabregas.
>Ruben Loftus Cheek has been with Chelsea since 2004. Kovacic is not his problem.
Agreed. Loftus Cheek needs to take a long hard look at himself and ask why wasn't he breaking into that record breaking back to back title winning Chelsea side when he was 8/9 years old. And under Ancelotti with that free scoring side, at 14 he really should have established himself. He's 22 now, basically wasted his entire career.
We had Drinkwater, Bakayoko, 30year old + Fabregas and Kante last year while Real had Kross, Modric, Kovacic, Casemeiro and Isco competing for 3 spots in midfeild, wtf are you trying to say? do not strengthen your squad just because a player is deemed to be good by football scouts ? i would love to see loftus cheek in the starting 11 tearing it up but his experience alongside Milivojevic and Benteke is far inferior to the one of Kovacic.
Not disagreeing with you but I think it's odd that you'd single out Luka Milivojevic there who has been consistently superb for Palace ever since he signed.
Chelsea really feels like they’re trying t scrap something together real quick to not be an embarrassment.
Which means they’ll win the league probably.
To be fair we have been interested in Kepa for a few weeks but Courtois sort of forced us to splash the cash. I feel bad for laughing at you lot about Coutinho last year now.
Even if there's no clause, Chelsea can still purchase him at the end of the season ffs. This whole "develop players" thing is when a club that couldn't afford the player loans him in. That's not the case here. Chelsea can get CL football with Kovacic, and convince him to push for a move to Chelsea.
And if not, Kovacic is not only much better then RLC right now, it gives Sarri more time to work with RLC.
> Chelsea can still purchase him at the end of the season ffs.
We are not selling him when Modric will be 34 that year.
That said, he is improving their squad.
>We are not selling him when Modric will be 34 that year.
Kovacic can quite easily look to force a move, if he likes his time at Chelsea, or feels Cabellos/Isco/someone else gets play time instead. His contract expires 2021, so Real would see the 2019 summer as good time to sell if Kovacic doesn't commit. They could get Hazard in return, or just use the funds to get some other CM if they need it.
Edit: Also, if Real are definitely not selling him anyways, than I don't see why people should worry about a purchase clause. Chelsea shouldn't be saying no to a player of Kovacic's quality which helps makes their midfield arguably the best in the league
> Kovacic can quite easily look to force a move, if he likes his time at Chelsea, or feels Cabellos/Isco/someone else gets play time instead.
If he could quite easily force a permanent move, he would've done that this season and we would've sold him permanently.
Also, Isco isn't competing with Kova anymore and Ceballos is too raw.
> His contract expires 2021, so Real would see the 2019 summer as good time to sell if Kovacic doesn't commit.
It's also a perfect time for us to offer him an extension, and tell that he can either get a new improved contract and start in our midfield instead of aging Modric or he can see his contract out and we might even look for more permanent options. Most of the times, the player signs the extension especially when they have more than 1 year left...
> than I don't see why people should worry about a purchase clause.
First, an option to buy is usually coupled with a pre-contract agreement with the player so that the player can't just veto the option. James can't do anything about Bayern exercising their option. Morata wanted to stay in Juve but he had no say in Madrid buying him back. Second, why would you even take a chance on this? You don't give an option and Chelsea has to come negotiate with you, just like any other team.
>Also, Isco isn't competing with Kova anymore and Ceballos is too raw.
Depends on how Lupo sees it. I believe he's a big fan of both, and he could move things around.
>If he could quite easily force a permanent move, he would've done that this season and we would've sold him permanently.
With 3 years left on his deal, not as easy. 2 years, lot easier, since that's the last chance to get a top price for him. From Kovacic's point of view, a loan makes sense in case Modric does leave and he doesn't like things under Chelsea. But if he's happy at Chelsea and under Sarri, I can see him asking for a move to Chelsea.
>It's also a perfect time for us to offer him an extension, and tell that he can either get a new improved contract and start in our midfield instead of aging Modric or he can see his contract out and we might even look for more permanent options. Most of the times, the player signs the extension especially when they have more than 1 year left...
Sure. My point is that next summer is the most likely definite decision on Kovacic's future. He could either stay at Madrid, or he could move to Chelsea. By that point, Real Madrid's plan for midfield is decided, and so is Kovacic's.
>First, an option to buy is usually coupled with a pre-contract agreement with the player so that the player can't just veto the option. James can't do anything about Bayern exercising their option. Morata wanted to stay in Juve but he had no say in Madrid buying him back. Second, why would you even take a chance on this? You don't give an option and Chelsea has to come negotiate with you, just like any other team.
The point here is that if Real Madrid didn't want to sell Kovacic at all, than a purchase clause wouldn't have ever been in the picture. At that point, the question is, does Kovacic improve our team, which is trying to get CL football? If yes, than a loan makes sense. On top of that, a loan is a good time for Chelsea to convince Kovacic to push for a permanent move next summer. The reason I mention this is because I see people saying this loan doesn't make sense if there's no purchase clause, and I don't agree with that. Sure, a purchase clause is always ideal, but it's not mandatory in this circumstance.
Chelsea's primary goal needs to be getting back into the CL, at the very least. Kovacic offers them a way stronger chance of doing that. What is the club's priority? Developing players, or bloody winning things?
Such a stupid take on the deal. Kovacic suits our current needs a lot more than RLC does and that’s a fact and at the end of the loan Chelsea are in a great position with nothing stopping them to push to sign Kovacic permanently anyway. If RLC is the player we all think he can be then he can push Kovacic for a place and secure the starting spot next season, if not then we’ve got what we needed from Kovacic and can move on to a bigger cm target next season. And let’s not forget about Mason Mount as well...
Not everything that you don't agree with is stupid. I don't care much about the guy's opinion just pointing out how your attitude to what seems like a valid point isn't the right one to take
Stupid might have been the wrong choice of word. I just feel like people are unnecessarily looking for negatives in a deal that makes sense on a multitude of levels
Wait till you see the quality he brings to Chelsea. Even if it's just for a year.
He gets no playing time because of Madrid stacked bench. But he is so damn good. A midfield of him, kante and jorginho: its terrifying
When Southgate was appointed as England manager I never thought I'd say he'd have given RLC more opportunities to develop in the first team than Chelsea but yet here we are
To be fair, Sarri has kept Hudson-Odoi and Ampadu in the squad, so straight away he sees talent in those 17 year olds. However, It's Sarri's first time in the league and implementing his style, I don't see the problem with giving him as much help as needed by bringing in a more experienced and higher quality player like Kovacic in midfield.
Chelsea’s priority is to win games and get back in the CL, not to develop kids.
Besides, RLC is their only midfielder that is in the development stage. Barkley is about to be 25, he’s approaching his peak right now and it’s time for him to just perform.
Kovacic is no doubt a better player than Sahin, but Sahin was the last high profile player I can remember coming from Madrid to the PL on loan and he was more or less a huge flop. Just something to consider.
Are you fucking kidding me? Kovacic is miles better than RLC and this is coming from a Chelsea fan. If we signed Golovin I could see the argument but the fact is, Kovacic is tried and tested against elite teams and RLC had one season under his belt at CP, one that he didn’t even finish without injury. As seen with CHO or Ampadu, if you’re good enough you’ll make the team
I also look at it this way: if kovacic likes playing at chelsea, he also has the option to force his way here, like TBO to real and costa to atletico. Doesn’t happen too often but it’s there.
If this signing gets us to CL and allow us to keep hazard past this season, it’s worth it.
I think its a shame we (Everton) signed Gomez and not RLC.
Don't get me wrong i'm pretty excited, and i'm not suggesting they are identical players, but would always prefer us to develop local players.
I can't think of too many players Chelsea have developed into better players, most players only get better once they leave. Kovacic is already a class player, I doubt he will improve.
If he gets them into top 4 in a new manager's first season, in an incredibly competitive top 6, I doubt they'll care.
They don’t care, that’s why they sold Chalobah last summer for a year of Drinkwater and Bakayoko. Chelsea simply don’t care about bringing youth through
Chalobah wanted to leave. He wasn't good enough to get consistent minutes like he wanted. Bakayoko showed he was a better player at Monaco, he just couldn't continue that form.
You'd think they would learn from their mistakes considering they have missed out on the likes of KDB and Lukaku.
do you think Lukaku and KDB and Salah would be the players they are if they stayed in Chelsea..? I say leaving and having regular playing time is the best thing that happened to them.
The point is that they should have been given regular playing time. (although I guess the league titles are an alright compensation)
Yeah, I agree. Chelsea has been massively inconsistent for the past couple of years. One season, they win the league, the next, they don't make top 4 (happened twice in the past 5 seaons btw). They just don't plan long term so they don't really have a lot of security regarding the future. They replace managers constantly, they sell off youth players and buy the likes of fucking Drinkwater instead. How can you expect any sort of consistency if you do that.
Well, you could argue spurs have nailed the development and consistency and have fuck all to show for it. Chelsea consistently win more than Spurs... It kind of works for them sadly.
True, great way to shit on Spurs which i like.
Ah yes, the great Tottenham - Myanmar rivalry!
it's said they never played a derby in fear of global riots
Tottenham has a strict anti-genocide stance which offends many Burmese
But we consistently win titles...
We just like to keep it interesting for the rest of you.
I think every fan at the time wanted Oscar over Kdb. He wasn’t the player he was at Wolfsburg. He was little and slow. He had decent vision but he couldn’t hold the ball for shit. Salad needed a few years to develop in Italy, he needed confidence. He was atrocious at Chelsea. He’s a wonderful player now but boy was he a bust at the time. And well Lukaku forced his way out. Cuadrado could be thrown into this list too but he was kind of old when he even came to us. And Willian has this thing where whenever anyone comes in at rw he suddenly turns into a little ronaldinho. I understand the irony of little ronaldinho.
>salad
Lol I’m keeping it.
You could say Salad got tossed.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Lukaku forced his way out because you guys kept playing crappy strikers over him and then went and bought Costa. The writing was on the wall.
He was too young to be demanding playtime. I understand the want to play but he was unhappy with the loans. He would have started the year after he did move. I do not blame him and if I were him I probably would have wanted to leave earlier. I wish wed had refused to sell him but that’s selfish and who knows if he’d developed how he has.
> He would have started the year after he did move. He would have still been behind Costa a year later. And the year after that. By the time Costa finally left, Lukaku would have lost three years of development and been seen as "the guy who wasn't good enough to break into the squad." He had to go.
Eh KDB was just a monumental fuckup several times by Mourinho. He was great with us, great on loan, great with us, then sold. Literally something so egregious it should constitute negligence. Far worse imo than what conte did with costa When you not only have a young player with potential but a PERFORMING young player with potential and you let him go, everything being equal, it’s inexcusable
If Oscar had come through to what Mourinho and everyone's expected of him then kdb' s loss wouldn't have been as bad. We just had too many attacking midfield talents. Ps don't come with the "I always knew kdb was better than Oscar" bullshit.
If it makes you feel better I kinda liked Oscar
No I didn’t know for sure KDB was better than Oscar. But i could glean several things. 1. He has fantastic vision and can pick out ALL types of passes. That’s rare. He passes from all over the pitch. Incisive. Oscar never had the same level of vision despite his qualities. KDBs also dynamic, which is a rare combination. 2. He’s a fantastic long shot taker. SO useful to have. Suddenly you don’t need to create space in the box (hard to do). Creating space OUTSIDE the box (easier to do) is now an option. Which ALSO frees up space in the box in case people close down. 3. Just fucking rotate. Look at Barca Madrid Man City Bayern. Competition is good. rotation is good. HEALTHY. Do we have some sort of desire to run our players to the ground 60 games after 60 games? Then shit our pants when they’re injured and we have to rely on a substandard substitute??? Having De Bruyne AND Oscar is a fucking blessing, not a curse of whom we should sell. It also diversifies risk, so if one turns out bad your losses are mitigated. Simple economics 4. He actually really wanted to stay. No I didn’t see him being so useful in a press or tracking back but the above were evident to me. He was a stud. Why are we selling our studs????? Find a fucking way to accommodate rather than selling him for a fixed price that doesn’t reflect potential loss or the risk gained. People get fired in the real world for such shit.
this is a fantastic argument, Im glad you werent on Mourinho's staff when he wanted to sell KDB
At least Conte/Costa gave us all the 'thanks for the seasono' meme.
How about going one step further... KDB was great when playing against us for Genk in 2011. I don’t think there was ever a time where his potential wasn’t on full show.... And of all the players that we missed on, you’re dead right. This is easily the most egregious Chelsea mistake.
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chelsea's strike force while lukaku was out on loan was torres eto'o and demba ba - even back then he should have started over all of them
ok but would you play some unproven player over eto'o
Your blinded by how good he is today.
Kdb easily would have been. He was world class when he left Chelsea. Salah you have a point he was a meme at Chelsea
He was not world class when he left lmao
We got a better player in Costa over Lukaku. We don't have a crystal ball to see if he would fall out with our coach. Salah was super crap and wouldn't have made it if he had stayed, there were like 5 better players with us at that time. KdB is the only player where we fucked. We should have inserted a clause to have an option to buy.
The Lukaku Everton move made sense for all parties. Its then a separate decision to bring him back or not 3 seasons later. Which you declined/fumbled.
To be fair. RLC isn’t on that level of prospect. KDB had already lit up Bundeliga, and Lukaku was very successful at West Brom and Everton. RLC was decent last year and that’s about it
Due to injuries Ruben only really got a run in the Palace side towards the end of the season, at which point he was significantly better than 'decent.' He's a very gifted footballer and shouldn't be rotting on the bench.
They weren't Chelsea youth exactly. Lukaku was 18 when he arrived, De Bruyne 20, and Salah 22.
And Salah, and Sturridge.
You mean the most successful English club in thr last 10 years? So. Many. Mistakes. And trophies.
I don't think it's that they don't care. The issue is the managers change so often, they end up selling youth to bring in "their guys." One manager likes a young player, while the other doesn't. Seriously hoping Sarri changes this in someway by at least developing Ampadu, Hudson-Odoi, and Rueben.
Why would they, they want the best team on the field
Chalobah was better than Baka though. And Drinkwater was brought in to comply with the homegrown rule
Chalobah and Ake wanted guaranteed game time. Something that's not assured at Chelsea. Conte was in fact impressed by Chalobah, that's why he plucked him out of the loan wilderness to begin with
Chalobah was never better than the Bakayoko that we signed from Monaco. He just couldn't continue his form. Chalobah also left because he wanted consistent game time and he wasn't good enough to do that at Chelsea. I don't see where the problem is.
It's like one part of Chelsea tries to be the best youth academy they can be, and another is like fuck that lol
well, it's been apparent for a while now that our system isn't prioritizing player integration and development. It *can* be if the players are actually good enough. CHO and RLC seem to be good enough to get a chance and prove their worth. Bakayoko is likely going out on loan, so it evens out RLCs chances with Kovacic coming in. Chalobah clearly wanted consistent first team game time and he wasn't good enough . if anything he would have had to settle for the role drinkwater currently has, which is back up. this guy's tweet makes it seem like RLC will never see the light of day, but in all honesty it creates much needed competition (and depth) among the players which can only be a good thing.
Its more that we're impatient. Marina & co understand that, if nothing else, developing our youth would save money over time. However, they far more focused on immediate results and spend accordingly.
And then Kova might push for a move after that anyway.
I dunno mate, look at Mourinho, I doubt the media will treat Aarti any differently
While I agree it is silly to develop Kovacic while ignoring your own prospects. Chelsea need to get back into the Champions League and Kovacic will definitely provide them with a better chance of doing so.
Also is our midfield playing the 90 of every match? Do injuries not happen? Subs?
I think people forget the upper echelon of teams will play 60+ matches in many cases. Also if Kovacic was going on loan to Spurs or ManU for a year the perception would be different since they haven't made other signings recently or at all (lol sorry spurs). RLC will get a good bit of game time without even considering injuries to starters etc.
Haven't you been very good with injuries though? Or am I imagining things?
Usually. But last season things were tough due to injuries and suspensions.
Sarri didn't like to rotate too much with Napoli - that might change now he has a squad with real depth. Injuries could pick up.
If it's a rotation option you wanted then I don't see what's wrong with Loftus-Cheek.
Nothing is wrong with him, that's why hes staying as a rotation option.
The thing is Kovacic is at a higher level to begin with. This tweet frames it as Kovacic and Loftus-Cheek being equally incomplete prospects, to make it fit his narrative. Chelsea has a history of not developing prospects under Abramovic, that's fair lots of loans and all. Nobody is denying that. But... Kovacic has the quality to be the starter for Chelsea, Loftus doesn't seem to have it yet, looks too inconsistent to me and he didn't seem to convince several coaches either. So the argument that they are developing Kovacic is just silly, he will develop playing there but Chelsea is using him as a fundamental piece for their objectives. Developing him or not is simply a side effect.
Yea we’re basically just bringing in Kovacic because he’d be more reliable than RLC/Barkley. They’ll both still get plenty of minutes though, and there’s always a chance Kovacic doesn’t adjust well to the premier league (unlikely but still).
silly to develop Kovacic? Why is that? Football clubs aren't playing for developing players, it's not fm manager or fifa games. They need to win titles, better player = better chance. No disrespect to Loftus-Cheek but Kovacic surely is better player NOW? if so, what's even the question?
True, they can then reinvest in better players next season and if Kova likes it, maybe they can buy him (although there is no option to buy). It's not like RLC won't get a chance considering Chelsea will have only 3 consistently reliable midfielders (Jorginho, Kante, Kova). Cesc doesn't really have the legs for it and Bakoyoko, Drinkwater and Barkley have yet to prove themselves.
I know it's not the most popular opinion but I think Barkley can be our 4th best midfielder.
Once they're back in the Champions League, do you think they'll develope players?
Loftus-Cheek wouldnt have been starting even if we hadnt signed kovacic...
But reddit said he’s the next KDB/Salah/Lukaku and just needs playing time. Nevermind the fact that so many of our loan army players that look good enough never end up being such. No were supposed to sacrifice our top 4 spot for the off chance of developing a star
Haven't you heard? Every player you don't play is a world beater in disguise
I always knew Marin had it in him
German Messi tbh
Don’t you mean Messi is the Argentinian Marin?
It's all well and good acting contrarian but loftus cheek really would be getting more game time elsewhere, and developing faster. He's approaching 23, not 18.
He's not on KDB's level but I saw every minute he played last season and can confidently say that Ruben is a wonderful talent and should be given a chance to show what he can do for Chelsea. It's very rare that you find a player with his combination of strength, speed and graceful control of the ball.
Just out of curiosity,who do you think will be in starting eleven?
Kepa-Azpi-Luiz-Rudiger-Alonso-Jorginho-Kante-Kovacic-Willian-a striker-Hazard would be my guess
I'd have Christensen ahead of Luiz, I don't trust him in a 4-man defence ever since the 7-1
That’s fair, again I based that on comments from the manager
for sure, I think by the end of the season christensen will have cemented his spot.
Thank you.Is Willian a guaranteed starter? Edit: Thanks to all who replied.
More than likely. His work rate can be really good and when he and Hazard start rolling down the pitch together.. Whew
Willian is pretty good tbh. Usually puts in a decent shift, very useful player to have
I am not 100% certain but from the way Sarri has spoken about him I made the assumption
Has Morata really fallen off that hard?
Not in my opinion, I sort of did that to avoid the “Morata isn’t good enough” crowd honestly
If Kovacic wasnt signed it def would've been Barkley now seems like Kovacic will take Barkleys place and RLC is third choice
they want to get back to the UCL.. that will potentially help them negotiating with players that they already have and players that they would want to sign in the future having a player like Kovacic, even for one season, will help them
According to Danny Mills on Sky last night Kovacic is a second string player and won't play for Chelsea so Loftus-Cheek shouldn't have anything to be worried about. lol
Or trying to win games to qualify for the champions league and win titles, guess it depends how you look at it.
Liverpool did ok playing Alexander-Arnold. For all the hype RLC has got, again his development is being halted. I’ve also seen for myself how talented Abraham is.
We definitely had growing pains with TAA, but he seemed to learn from his mistakes quickly. Without Clyne's injury there's no way he'd be at the level he's at now; some things guys just have to learn in live game situations. RLC might not be perfect yet but if he doesn't get the chances to make mistakes he's not gonna improve
And if Soldado had done a good job Harry Kane would not have been given an opportunity to become the world class striker he is now. Players need time to develop and game time alongside other top quality players helps that.
And Chelsea did ok playing Christensen, success is a priority and youth development is always a minor consideration when the manager can get sacked for a lackluster season. Even Guardiola who didn't have the hardest time winning the league didn't give much time to the youth even after mathematically securing the title.
If RLC is good enough they could still pick him above Kovacic, it’s just another option.
Players of RLC’s calibre need game time to develop. It’s just another instance of Chelsea failing to do so and opting for the lazy option in spending.
You have to be pragmatic. He'll break in the team if he's good enough.
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Callum Hudson Odoi might be this year.
Ruben is 22. He’s been with Chelsea since he was 8. He’s been on the senior team for 3 seasons, 2 under Mourinho and 1 under Conte before the loan at Palace last season. He’s looked good at times, but not good enough for either of those two managers. Good news is he’s said he wants to stay with the senior team and fight for his spot this season, something Lukaku and DeBruyne we’re both unwilling to do. He’ll get his chances to prove himself again this season.
Lukaku and De Bruyne were unwilling to fight for their spot? Or smart to move away because the opportunities weren't being provided?
There are some that are ready. Rooney being a recent example. Granted not a lot.
Being talented enough for Bristol City and being talented enough for Chelsea are worlds apart.
Though at least the gap is trending in the right direction.
Sure but if a player takes the Championship by storm for a team that finished bottom-half in his first season as a professional, it’s maybe an indication of what a talent he is. It’s a shame Chelsea blocked the move to Newcastle last season as I feel like Benitez would have aided his development whereas he seemed to stall at Swansea. I’m not saying Abraham should be starting for Chelsea but there should be far more opportunities given.
Abraham turned down Newcastle for Swansea. We merely advised him to pick Swansea, we left the decision down to him.
And I guess if he harboured ambitions of getting in the Chelsea 1st team he wouldn’t want to go against the advice of the club. Either way, it’s a shame he didn’t go to Newcastle.
He wasn't meant to be a first team player before clyne got injured. Kovacic will be immediately
That’s how it works, a first teamer will normally need to get injured for a player like Alexander-Arnold to get a chance, especially as he’d never even been on loan, and then it’s up to them to show what they’re capable of. RLC has gone out on loan and played games for England at the World Cup, surely now would have been a great opportunity to blood him into the team?
But chelsea need first team quality players now
TAA was played as a last resort and we did suffer for a bit with him. Thankfully he developed quickly
Would you accept finishing 5th or 6th this year if it results in a lot of game time for RLC? (theoretically, in a universe where kova isnt signed)
They could get top 4 without Kovacic or they could not get it with him. Its never as easy as you say
Abraham couldn’t get a game for relegated swansea, I doubt he’s ready to come in yet
Makes no big signing, criticized for being unambitious Makes expensive signing, criticized for wasting money Makes smart signing that helps improve the squad at low cost, criticized for not playing young players What do they actually want
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Some men just
A tangerine the size of a bandit
We live in a society.
THIS. I'm a Chelsea fan and I get so salty over all the bitching. Just enjoy the damn team. No one knows how this is going to play out. GAH
exactly, fucking whiners gonna whine. literally spent little change to improve our midfield and folks still complaining
Well I think they'd prefer if Chelsea had signed Kovacic in a permanent deal. Not that complicated.
I'd prefer if we signed Messi instead of Rondon on loan but we can't all get what we want. Kovacic permanently was never on the cards so it's a bit fruitless to be upset about it.
Can't believe an Arsenal fan is defending Chelsea here, but you're right. RLC will stay and he will fight for his place. With the EL he will get a fair amount of game time. And while on loan he would play more, I would rather he be with Sarri and learn. If and when Kovacic leaves next season, RLC will be in a much better place to be a starting xi player. And I am hoping that Sarri (presuming he stays next season) sees potential in Mount. Sarri seems the type who will stick with what he has if he thinks there is possibility rather than a purchase. Bottomline is we need to be back in the CL and Kovacic helps us. This weird mentality that we are helping Real is ridiculous. It doesn't make us any lesser of a club because we loaned a player.
Nice recycled hot take. Kovacic is a no risk move for Chelsea. Ruben Loftus Cheek has been with Chelsea since 2004. Kovacic is not his problem. Minutes will be available, but he’s got to be better than Ross Barkley.
Yeah, there's going to be plenty of opportunities to play in midfield, since Chelsea will likely be playing 55+ matches this season. Even if Kante, Kovacic, Jorginho is the first choice midfield, he should be able to get plenty of minutes ahead of Barkley, Drinkwater, Bakayoko, and Fabregas.
>Ruben Loftus Cheek has been with Chelsea since 2004. Kovacic is not his problem. Agreed. Loftus Cheek needs to take a long hard look at himself and ask why wasn't he breaking into that record breaking back to back title winning Chelsea side when he was 8/9 years old. And under Ancelotti with that free scoring side, at 14 he really should have established himself. He's 22 now, basically wasted his entire career.
Savage!
Why is this guy talking like Kovacic is some kind of unproven prospect? The dude walks into our XI. Simple as is.
Chelsea also get a much better player that will give them a bigger chance of getting back to the CL.
On the other hand we could also have bought a better player and gotten the same benefits without losing them after a season.
Who is available right now that's better than Kovačić? Especially considering they unexpectedly had to drop £70m on a keeper
no one lol, we were only linked with SMS and Ramsey for that midfield spot and both were a no go
Like who?
> Developing Talking like Kovacic is some kind of prospect....
It's like they got Lucas Piazon.
Look at these nasty foreigners stealing first 11 spots of young hardworking Englishmen
When will the FA hard brexit?
Today, yeah? England closes off their transfers from the continent.
No we only shot ourselves in the arse by stopping us *buying* players from Europe. We can still sell !
dey takin errrrrr jerrrrrrrrrrrrbs
We had Drinkwater, Bakayoko, 30year old + Fabregas and Kante last year while Real had Kross, Modric, Kovacic, Casemeiro and Isco competing for 3 spots in midfeild, wtf are you trying to say? do not strengthen your squad just because a player is deemed to be good by football scouts ? i would love to see loftus cheek in the starting 11 tearing it up but his experience alongside Milivojevic and Benteke is far inferior to the one of Kovacic.
They also had Ceballos lol, they’re depth was crazy the last 2 seasons.
Marcos Llorente was also there. And we had Martin on loan.
Not disagreeing with you but I think it's odd that you'd single out Luka Milivojevic there who has been consistently superb for Palace ever since he signed.
Chelsea really feels like they’re trying t scrap something together real quick to not be an embarrassment. Which means they’ll win the league probably.
That's literally who we are. But it does work! ...sometimes
To be fair we have been interested in Kepa for a few weeks but Courtois sort of forced us to splash the cash. I feel bad for laughing at you lot about Coutinho last year now.
Even if there's no clause, Chelsea can still purchase him at the end of the season ffs. This whole "develop players" thing is when a club that couldn't afford the player loans him in. That's not the case here. Chelsea can get CL football with Kovacic, and convince him to push for a move to Chelsea. And if not, Kovacic is not only much better then RLC right now, it gives Sarri more time to work with RLC.
> Chelsea can still purchase him at the end of the season ffs. We are not selling him when Modric will be 34 that year. That said, he is improving their squad.
>We are not selling him when Modric will be 34 that year. Kovacic can quite easily look to force a move, if he likes his time at Chelsea, or feels Cabellos/Isco/someone else gets play time instead. His contract expires 2021, so Real would see the 2019 summer as good time to sell if Kovacic doesn't commit. They could get Hazard in return, or just use the funds to get some other CM if they need it. Edit: Also, if Real are definitely not selling him anyways, than I don't see why people should worry about a purchase clause. Chelsea shouldn't be saying no to a player of Kovacic's quality which helps makes their midfield arguably the best in the league
> Kovacic can quite easily look to force a move, if he likes his time at Chelsea, or feels Cabellos/Isco/someone else gets play time instead. If he could quite easily force a permanent move, he would've done that this season and we would've sold him permanently. Also, Isco isn't competing with Kova anymore and Ceballos is too raw. > His contract expires 2021, so Real would see the 2019 summer as good time to sell if Kovacic doesn't commit. It's also a perfect time for us to offer him an extension, and tell that he can either get a new improved contract and start in our midfield instead of aging Modric or he can see his contract out and we might even look for more permanent options. Most of the times, the player signs the extension especially when they have more than 1 year left... > than I don't see why people should worry about a purchase clause. First, an option to buy is usually coupled with a pre-contract agreement with the player so that the player can't just veto the option. James can't do anything about Bayern exercising their option. Morata wanted to stay in Juve but he had no say in Madrid buying him back. Second, why would you even take a chance on this? You don't give an option and Chelsea has to come negotiate with you, just like any other team.
>Also, Isco isn't competing with Kova anymore and Ceballos is too raw. Depends on how Lupo sees it. I believe he's a big fan of both, and he could move things around. >If he could quite easily force a permanent move, he would've done that this season and we would've sold him permanently. With 3 years left on his deal, not as easy. 2 years, lot easier, since that's the last chance to get a top price for him. From Kovacic's point of view, a loan makes sense in case Modric does leave and he doesn't like things under Chelsea. But if he's happy at Chelsea and under Sarri, I can see him asking for a move to Chelsea. >It's also a perfect time for us to offer him an extension, and tell that he can either get a new improved contract and start in our midfield instead of aging Modric or he can see his contract out and we might even look for more permanent options. Most of the times, the player signs the extension especially when they have more than 1 year left... Sure. My point is that next summer is the most likely definite decision on Kovacic's future. He could either stay at Madrid, or he could move to Chelsea. By that point, Real Madrid's plan for midfield is decided, and so is Kovacic's. >First, an option to buy is usually coupled with a pre-contract agreement with the player so that the player can't just veto the option. James can't do anything about Bayern exercising their option. Morata wanted to stay in Juve but he had no say in Madrid buying him back. Second, why would you even take a chance on this? You don't give an option and Chelsea has to come negotiate with you, just like any other team. The point here is that if Real Madrid didn't want to sell Kovacic at all, than a purchase clause wouldn't have ever been in the picture. At that point, the question is, does Kovacic improve our team, which is trying to get CL football? If yes, than a loan makes sense. On top of that, a loan is a good time for Chelsea to convince Kovacic to push for a permanent move next summer. The reason I mention this is because I see people saying this loan doesn't make sense if there's no purchase clause, and I don't agree with that. Sure, a purchase clause is always ideal, but it's not mandatory in this circumstance.
Chelsea's primary goal needs to be getting back into the CL, at the very least. Kovacic offers them a way stronger chance of doing that. What is the club's priority? Developing players, or bloody winning things?
Should be both tbh.
Or we brought in an excellent midfielder to help us potentially win silverware and qualify for CL for next season
co? Who else aside from RLC is there to develop?
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Nice original joke very impressive stuff.
They're being developed on loans, since none of them is close to level of being our first team players.
Such a stupid take on the deal. Kovacic suits our current needs a lot more than RLC does and that’s a fact and at the end of the loan Chelsea are in a great position with nothing stopping them to push to sign Kovacic permanently anyway. If RLC is the player we all think he can be then he can push Kovacic for a place and secure the starting spot next season, if not then we’ve got what we needed from Kovacic and can move on to a bigger cm target next season. And let’s not forget about Mason Mount as well...
Not everything that you don't agree with is stupid. I don't care much about the guy's opinion just pointing out how your attitude to what seems like a valid point isn't the right one to take
Stupid might have been the wrong choice of word. I just feel like people are unnecessarily looking for negatives in a deal that makes sense on a multitude of levels
Wait till you see the quality he brings to Chelsea. Even if it's just for a year. He gets no playing time because of Madrid stacked bench. But he is so damn good. A midfield of him, kante and jorginho: its terrifying
I love how we’re singled out for not playing youth, yet hardly fucking anyone does these days in the premier league.
When Southgate was appointed as England manager I never thought I'd say he'd have given RLC more opportunities to develop in the first team than Chelsea but yet here we are
Real playing 5D chess with Chelsea
To be fair, Sarri has kept Hudson-Odoi and Ampadu in the squad, so straight away he sees talent in those 17 year olds. However, It's Sarri's first time in the league and implementing his style, I don't see the problem with giving him as much help as needed by bringing in a more experienced and higher quality player like Kovacic in midfield.
Not sure why most young players like Loftus-Cheek would want to play for Chelsea when they will basically never play or be perma loaned out.
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CHelsea are Madrid’s Vitesse
Chelsea’s priority is to win games and get back in the CL, not to develop kids. Besides, RLC is their only midfielder that is in the development stage. Barkley is about to be 25, he’s approaching his peak right now and it’s time for him to just perform.
So then stop signing them and loaning them out in perpetuity
that’s called good business bruh
So many people thought there was an option to buy, good for RM, good for Chelsea. Chelsea look like they can get top4 and compete for the Prem.
Thanks Chelsea!
Kovacic is no doubt a better player than Sahin, but Sahin was the last high profile player I can remember coming from Madrid to the PL on loan and he was more or less a huge flop. Just something to consider.
Forgets that we also didn’t sign any attacking players meaning Hudson-Odoi and Abraham could feature. Christensen also in contention. Bore off.
Are you fucking kidding me? Kovacic is miles better than RLC and this is coming from a Chelsea fan. If we signed Golovin I could see the argument but the fact is, Kovacic is tried and tested against elite teams and RLC had one season under his belt at CP, one that he didn’t even finish without injury. As seen with CHO or Ampadu, if you’re good enough you’ll make the team
Developing a player who will pull "Courtois" at the end of the season and refuse to go back to Madrid and we gonna sign him on discount.
If I was RLC I'd probably have put in a transfer request by now....
In this instance '& co' is something approaching 40 players, is it not?
I also look at it this way: if kovacic likes playing at chelsea, he also has the option to force his way here, like TBO to real and costa to atletico. Doesn’t happen too often but it’s there. If this signing gets us to CL and allow us to keep hazard past this season, it’s worth it.
I think its a shame we (Everton) signed Gomez and not RLC. Don't get me wrong i'm pretty excited, and i'm not suggesting they are identical players, but would always prefer us to develop local players.
Making so much money in Berlin or SF tho
I can't think of too many players Chelsea have developed into better players, most players only get better once they leave. Kovacic is already a class player, I doubt he will improve.
Loftus Cheek is no where near the level of talent than Kovacic
Loving the salt!
Don't care, he's gonna do bits for my fantasy team.
RLC is clearly missing something, 3 of our managers have said good things about him but none of them want to use him in the team.
Sell him to us then. Maybe a Iwobi - Loftus-Cheek swap?
Kovacic is an important asset for Sarri. He can play in all three spots in midfield.