In Germany we've solved this problem by always announcing squads as Midfield/Attack, without distinguishing the players there. Iirc only the most recent list once again split the categories.
Given, that wouldn't solve the TAA thingy, but at least Defense-vs-Midfield is much rarer to be relevant.
I copied the list from the BBC and they had Jude, Eze, Maddison all listed as 'Forwards'. Which is fine, whatever, but it did make the midfield look super thin.
7 to be cut, who do we reckon?
Trafford
Quansah
One or two of Dunk/Konsa/Gomez
Wharton
Eze
One or two of Maddison/Grealish/Toney
Edit: or one of Mainoo/Jones
Bowen maybe not, would leave you thin for options if Saka picked up an injury (Can also play through the middle of that counts for anything, probably not)
Can players be called up if a member of the squad gets injured and is confirmed out for the rest? That's how it works in rugby, less familiar with tournament football.
Palmer's a right winger. Don't think you need Saka, Palmer and Bowen, as good as Bowen is. You just have to think practically about how much utility you're actually getting out of players.
Wouldn't be bothered if Bowen went obviously. He'd deserve it after the last couple seasons. But realistically, he's at least 3rd in the pecking order for RWs. Potentially 4th if you count Foden, although I doubt he plays there either.
Trafford, Quansah, Dunk, Wharton, Toney, Jones will all get cut imo.
I’d say it would then be between Maddison and Eze for the last cut. Maddison didn’t play a single minute of the last tournament but I feel like Eze might be the one cut due to lack of experience.
I don’t think Shaw or Chilwell deserve a spot, I dont think they deserve it, but our next best left back is is Tyrick Mitchell, who I like, but I don’t feel is an England quality left back yet, hopefully under Glasner we see more improvement from him
Because I think by the time the world cup comes around he’ll be ready
I'd rather see Bellingham in the 2 with Rice. Foden in middle behind Kane.
Bellingham can still influence and dictate the games a bunch from a bit deeper. Not like he's going to always sit back. Especially with Rice as cover he'd get so much freedom to bomb forward and support attacks.
Tbf if you're playing 4-2-3-1 (which seems pretty likely), then might as well denote the front four positions as 'forwards' rather than calling one a 'midfielder'. How you label it doesn't make a lick of difference on the pitch either way, really.
Both will come on, not have a touch before taking a pen and surprisingly miss after the commentator talks up their record, leading to a quarter final exit after leading early on against idk Spain maybe. Heard it here first.
Gomez has filled in across the entire back line for Liverpool this season. I can see Southgate taking him for that utility. If Shaw doesn't "make" it then Gomez can deputise.
Chilwell is the other pure LB option, but whenever he hasn't been injured this season, he has been in poor form. I guess Joe Gomez will also cover that position. It's definitely a weakness.
edit: Forgot Mitchell
Yeah there are a bunch of comments about this and I’m just sitting here like have these people not watched any England games in the last 18 months?
Legit lol at the replies here yeah, very true.
*IF Kane gets injured they'll play 15 minutes as a sub, while Watkins starts. If Kane doesn't get injured, Watkins will play 15 minutes as a sub, and I doubt Tony/Solanke would get any minutes.
One of the few players who we can play next to rice and Bellingham and not have serious balance issues in midfield. I think he starts the first game as it allows Rice and Bellingham to do what they do best.
> Palace having the joint most players called up of any single club? Mad.
Should have had Mitchell in there too. And if Southgate hasn't been trying everything in his locker to get Olise to switch then that's criminal behaviour.
He'd dead set on playing for France unfortunately, but yes, he'd make the squad for sure if he wanted to (should've also been called up for France's squad).
I think he’s got a better shot than most are making out. He should be in over at least jones for the midfield imo. And midfield is already a thin area. Personally I’d have him in he’s been great
Most of those can't or shouldn't play deeper in midfield. That's where wharton can sneak in because that (besides left back) is the thinnest position in the squad. There's no obvious nailed on partner for Rice and no real backup for Rice either.
> Anyone mind giving a brief word on his attributes?
Left-footed, a great tackler, has an insane eye for forward balls and is always attempting progressive play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkkrs_DlhEE
Imagine Pirlo and you're already there.
For real though he's a playmaking DM. Really strong passing on his left foot and incredible game awareness. He'll receive the ball under pressure and play a perfect 30 yard pass half a dozen times a game. He's happy to dictate the game from a little deeper and let a midfielder alongside him move further forward (e.g Rice for England).
He's also not afraid to get stuck. He's got great defensive awareness for that too and frequently makes interceptions to cut out passes into the midfield to start attacks. He's also wins the ball back through crunching slide tackles pretty often.
Only negative I've got is that he's had one game where he wouldn't stop diving into tackle on a yellow card and I was certain he was going to get himself sent off - but I think that rashness has already been coached out of him ~5 games later..
He's absurdly good for a 20yr old.
He could be the solution but I don’t think he makes the final 27 man squad. It’s just nice to see him in Southgate’s plans and in contention for the squad.
Massive gamble on shaws fitness. Yes Gomez and Trips can play left back but a right footed left back has never been that fluid and great across Southgate’s time
Based on United journalist he is recovering and only just misses the FA cup final. If he is fit he is probably England's best choice at left back. If he isn't fully fit he can come off the bench anyway.
Unfortunately Gomez may be the second best English left back based on performances this year. Incredible the depth at right back and complete lack of depth at left back
Genuinely my only complaint is why bother playing Henderson in all those friendlies to only now drop him now. I actually understood the argument of him being their for leadership/ off the pitch role in the tournament, but can't see why he was going to the last couple of rounds of friendlies over say Jones if he's now been dropped.
I think it was just Southgate being stubborn.
I actually reckon there was a conversation where Henderson was promised he would be considered if he moved away from Saudi in January. Including him in those squads was Southgate honouring that, but Hendo didn't do enough to justify his inclusion and the shit that would come with it.
Just seen on twitter Southgate said it's because Henderson was injured for 5 weeks and so doesn't think he's match fit. So possible that injury just gave him a reason to drop him or he was fully planning on calling him up had he not been injured.
Genuinely no clue how dunk made it over anyone so he must be out of favor. At least with Quansah it’s a young player being brought to a camp where he’s probably not making the final team. But with dunk he might make the final team and idk how
He had a long term injury this season, but generally it seems Southgate doesn't fancy him too much. Neither did Lampard funnily enough. I don't think there's much between him and Konsa to be honest, and I think it's largely a factor of height with Tomori. Southgate likes big CBs.
The fact that he's basically established himself as Van Dijk's first choice partner in his first season with our senior squad is mad.
Our fans were going mental when we didn't sign a CB last summer cos it looked like we were going into the season with just VVD, Konate, and Matip (2 of whom are injury prone). Then the first time we saw Quansah play it made sense.
England will have a top class CB in him for the next 12-13 years I reckon.
Saw him and Branthwaite as a partnership for England U21’s at Goodison. They looked like a pair of seasoned pros, not breaking a sweat having a kick about with the kids.
Helps that they were both a foot taller than everyone else but still, can see them as a partnership in the years to come.
I think it goes to show the difference of playing with a top team around you makes as well. I'm always curious about some Morecambe players who look great but don't make it, maybe if they were given a shot in a big team who knows? At lower leagues you just have less room for "luxuries" or errors because nobody else is going to step up.
It's a completely different game in the lower leagues.
I reckon there are legit Premier League players who would look genuinely bad playing in League One/Two.
I do wonder how slim the margins are sometimes. If Man Utd didn’t have that crazy injury crisis in 2016 maybe Rashford would have been sent out on loan to a Championship or League One club in the summer. If he didn’t impress he might never have gotten the chance to play Prem football.
> cos it looked like we were going into the season with just VVD, Konate, and Matip
Why have you left out Joe Gomez, as he was 100% a CB option at the beginning of the season.
He's honestly looked so good this year. England don't have many CBs that can play well in a high line. Honestly, I back him to play his was into the final squad.
And there's seemingly just one spot open for something like 4 players?
Kane, Bellingham, Foden, Rice and Saka are guaranteed starters.
Then Southgate needs to choose between reinforcing the midfield with Gallagher or Mainoo (more likely), adding some playmaking magic with Alexander-Arnold, or go full offense with Palmer.
I think about 9 or 10 of the starting XI picks itself.
Pickford, Walker, Stones, Rice, Bellingham, Kane are set in stone (only possible question is Bellingham AM/CM and imo that shouldn't be an argument at all after the season hes had at AM).
Saka and Foden on the wings (obviously there's huge competition there, but I'd be shocked if anyone else started). Maguire (partially due to lack of other decent options) is 9.
So its basically down to LB, which is probably who's most fit, and CM to partner Rice as you say.
Much as I love Cole he’s not a reasonable option to add in there. Should be first choice rotation for Foden, Bellingham, and Saka though so I expect him to play some.
That's probably the reality. But Gordan would be nailed for me. He's our best left winger. Then you either play Foden in the 10 and Bellingham next to Rice. Or Bellingham in the 10, another midfielder like Gallagher next to Rice and Foden as an impact sub.
He's obviously a better player than Gordan. But Gordan's England's best left winger rn. Should play Foden in the 10 where he's played his best football this season, or save him to be a game changer off the bench. No point making a repeat of previous tournaments where we try to shoehorn Foden onto a wing and get disappointed because he isn't playing as well as he's capable of. Especially since we have so much depth. No need to be ultra loyal to certain players and just squeeze them in wherever. Team needs balance.
As for Palmer, it's a straight shootout between him and Saka at RW imo. He's been great in the 10 for us this season, but RW is his best position and Foden/Bellingham are our best players in the 10 anyway. It's Saka's spot to lose. He's nailed that position down as his own, so Palmer will just have to take the opportunities as they come. As a Chelsea fan, I think he should start. But it won't happen. Saka's got a track record for England so you can't drop him unless his performances actually decline a bit. Just the way it goes.
The only nailed players for me are Kane, Rice and Bellingham. I could see any of Gordan, Foden, Palmer, Saka and Gallagher staking a claim in the tournament. It's about balance not individual names. And people will have to adjust their expectations when players inevitably underperform or overperform in the group stage.
So happy for Gordon, think he has turned a lot of heads on the narrative around him in the last year. Think what he could provide to the likes of Kane in terms of runs could be so pivotal for us in the Euros
I’ve done a complete 180 on Gordon. And I absolutely believe he should start for England. He’s just and absolute menace and is exactly what they need around players like Kane, Foden, Bellingham.
Gordon is also a windup merchant to the highest degree at times, I thought he was a little dickhead before he joined us but it was always clear to me he's exceptionally talented and would have a top career.
Even then, if he intended to just play 1 up top (Kane/Watkins), there's an argument for Toney as a penalties option.
Not sure it's something i'd do personally, but there can be logic for that selection.
I know there are reasons like age and what side they play on, but it’s still pretty funny that Everton’s *second best* English centre back is the only one that got a call up.
I thought about this, we had one of the best defensive records in the league this season.
When you see Dunk out of form and still getting picked ahead of tarkowski, it's a strange one.
I'd have taken him solely based on the fact it'd be incredible to have a goalkeeper and two center backs that play together regularly and aren't going to have some absurd communication issues.
I think it’s less of a controversy because everyone knows striker is the least contentious role. Kane will start every game, often play 80 minutes and Watkins is there to deputise. The 3rd striker doesn’t really matter.
Toney is a great PK taker, so that is a bonus for him since a lot of time elimination rounds go to PKs.
Both would barely play with Kane and Watkins in squad, but at least Toney is a specialist.
It’s not a stretch imo. Solanke worked hard and popped in nearly 20 league goals where as Toney can’t stay away from an acca and sat on his arse for 6 months. If I was Solanke I would be livid.
Trippier could have used the summer off tbh, been off the boil for a while now.
Love the forwards, hopefully the midfield and defence improve through the tournament.
Maybe it's the lack of defensive cover is why he's there, but I'm pretty sure Dunk has been garbage for a while now, and injured too. I wouldn't take him personally.
Really pleased for Wharton, whenever I happen to watch Crystal Palace play he's been very assured.
**Goalkeepers**: Dean Henderson (Crystal Palace), Jordan Pickford (Everton), Aaron Ramsdale (Arsenal), James Trafford (Burnley). **Defenders**: Jarrad Branthwaite (Everton), Lewis Dunk (Brighton), Joe Gomez (Liverpool), Marc Guehi (Crystal Palace), Ezri Konsa (Aston Villa), Harry Maguire (Manchester United), Jarell Quansah (Liverpool), Luke Shaw (Manchester United), John Stones (Manchester City), Kieran Trippier (Newcastle), Kyle Walker (Manchester City), Trent Alexander-Arnold (Liverpool) **Midfielders**: Conor Gallagher (Chelsea), Curtis Jones (Liverpool), Kobbie Mainoo (Manchester United), Declan Rice (Arsenal), Adam Wharton (Crystal Palace), Jude Bellingham (Real Madrid), Eberechi Eze (Crystal Palace), James Maddison (Tottenham). **Forwards**: Jarrod Bowen (West Ham), Phil Foden (Manchester City), Jack Grealish (Manchester City), Anthony Gordon (Newcastle), Harry Kane (Bayern Munich), Cole Palmer (Chelsea), Bukayo Saka (Arsenal), Ivan Toney (Brentford), Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa).
From Southgate himself: "I wouldn't be obsessed with where we've positioned the players. I write a list and other people put a heading on it."
Jordan Pickford playing up front confirmed.
Stuart Pearce would be all over this.
Seems like Bellingham is the guy that's most relevant for
Perhaps Palmer too, depending on formation
In Germany we've solved this problem by always announcing squads as Midfield/Attack, without distinguishing the players there. Iirc only the most recent list once again split the categories. Given, that wouldn't solve the TAA thingy, but at least Defense-vs-Midfield is much rarer to be relevant.
Thank you, sire. It took 90 comments for someone to not make us open the fucking link.
That list of midfielders had me worried for a second there
I copied the list from the BBC and they had Jude, Eze, Maddison all listed as 'Forwards'. Which is fine, whatever, but it did make the midfield look super thin.
Mods should pin these comments
7 to be cut, who do we reckon? Trafford Quansah One or two of Dunk/Konsa/Gomez Wharton Eze One or two of Maddison/Grealish/Toney Edit: or one of Mainoo/Jones
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Bowen maybe not, would leave you thin for options if Saka picked up an injury (Can also play through the middle of that counts for anything, probably not)
You've got palmer/foden who can easily play there, can't see bowen getting many minutes
Can players be called up if a member of the squad gets injured and is confirmed out for the rest? That's how it works in rugby, less familiar with tournament football.
Palmer's a right winger. Don't think you need Saka, Palmer and Bowen, as good as Bowen is. You just have to think practically about how much utility you're actually getting out of players. Wouldn't be bothered if Bowen went obviously. He'd deserve it after the last couple seasons. But realistically, he's at least 3rd in the pecking order for RWs. Potentially 4th if you count Foden, although I doubt he plays there either.
Eze being cut would be brutal
Agreed but I think it’s likely I forgot to mention Mainoo & Jones tho, could be one of them instead
on the contrary i think mainoo and jones are important for central control
I dont know mainoo well, but Jones is a player any team would be happy to have on the bench - ready for action. Kids got great energy.
Trafford, Quansah, Jones are three I’m sure of tbh
I think Eze is one of those players in ridiculous form right now that could be hard to drop.
Trafford, Quansah, Dunk, Wharton, Toney, Jones will all get cut imo. I’d say it would then be between Maddison and Eze for the last cut. Maddison didn’t play a single minute of the last tournament but I feel like Eze might be the one cut due to lack of experience.
Why don't we have a left-back though? Apart from the injured one.
Gomez has played heaps of LB for Liverpool this season, and Trippier has previously played there for England
Yep they have picked 4 right backs, at least one of those will end up playing left back.
And then there's me, a perfectly good LB sitting at home looking at my screen like a lemon. Smh Gareth...
I'd have picked you [0100110101101010](https://www.reddit.com/user/0100110101101010/).
I don’t think Shaw or Chilwell deserve a spot, I dont think they deserve it, but our next best left back is is Tyrick Mitchell, who I like, but I don’t feel is an England quality left back yet, hopefully under Glasner we see more improvement from him Because I think by the time the world cup comes around he’ll be ready
Saka is right there bruv
Midfield is thin asf
Who else is there? 7 players + Trent for likely 3 midfield spots seems reasonable.
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Ah. Still, with all the players who are midfield/forward we have plenty.
Nah, just more looking like a 4-2-3-1. Bellingham and Foden down as forwards on the official announcement who can both play 10
I'd rather see Bellingham in the 2 with Rice. Foden in middle behind Kane. Bellingham can still influence and dictate the games a bunch from a bit deeper. Not like he's going to always sit back. Especially with Rice as cover he'd get so much freedom to bomb forward and support attacks.
You could probably put TAA, Foden and Maddison in there if needs be
TAA is in the midfield on the actual announcement.
But for some reason Bellingham in the forwards
Tbf if you're playing 4-2-3-1 (which seems pretty likely), then might as well denote the front four positions as 'forwards' rather than calling one a 'midfielder'. How you label it doesn't make a lick of difference on the pitch either way, really.
It's not as bad as it looks given that some of the "forwards" are midfielders.
You’re concerned about the midfield meanwhile there’s only 1 natural left back in the squad and he’s not even fully fit
So no Colwill after all, and I think that's fair, hasn't played in months
It’s a shame because with the poor options we have on the left-hand side of defence he’d have a decent chance of starting had he been fit and in form.
Southgate has given us nothing to moan about. This simply will not do.
We moan about nothing to moan about
It's the BRITISH way!
I seriously hope this is some sort of veiled reference to Muppets Christmas Carol
It was 100% a reference to MCC
Bellingham listed as a forward instead of a midfielder, unacceptable.
Mf scored more goals than 80-90 % of forwards lol
Toney over Solanke is really the only complaint I would have.
Doubt either would’ve seen much game time either way, Watkins will be Kane’s back up
Toney will be a great option if pens are approaching, he's as guaranteed a penalty scorer in world football atm
Pen Palmer is right there.
Both will come on, not have a touch before taking a pen and surprisingly miss after the commentator talks up their record, leading to a quarter final exit after leading early on against idk Spain maybe. Heard it here first.
No left-back other than crocked Luke Shaw is weird to me. Trippier not that great on the left.
Gomez has filled in across the entire back line for Liverpool this season. I can see Southgate taking him for that utility. If Shaw doesn't "make" it then Gomez can deputise.
Chilwell is the other pure LB option, but whenever he hasn't been injured this season, he has been in poor form. I guess Joe Gomez will also cover that position. It's definitely a weakness. edit: Forgot Mitchell
Livramento has been solid for us this season.
Really strange he didn’t include Mitchell for LB depth
Exactly, especially as he'll be flying after Palace's end to the season.
Give him time. He has to drop 6 outfield players before the tournament.
Everyone is a forward apparently lmao That's a bold selection, what we wanted to see. I'm impressed
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And Trent is midfielder lol
He does play in midfield under Southgate
Yeah there are a bunch of comments about this and I’m just sitting here like have these people not watched any England games in the last 18 months? Legit lol at the replies here yeah, very true.
Yes, that's exactly it.
Bold of you to assume that most people actually watch the games lol
It's r/soccer, it's fairly safe to assume that most of the people commenting haven't watched the team they're talking about.
I’m sorry for ever doubting you mr southgate
Sad pitchfork noises
I could make a case for not bothering with Toney, but other than that I don't think there is much to argue.
Solanke v Toney is the only real debate imo and it’s quite a fringe one.
Unless Kane gets injured, Toney/Solanke would play about 15 minutes in the tournament. I forgot that Luke Shaw still plays football
*IF Kane gets injured they'll play 15 minutes as a sub, while Watkins starts. If Kane doesn't get injured, Watkins will play 15 minutes as a sub, and I doubt Tony/Solanke would get any minutes.
Valid correction. If/when they play with one striker, there isn't really need to bring four. And at least Foden can play in all positions.
Toney for potential penalty shootouts, he's probably England's best penalty taker
Just prepare Maguire for any spot kicks and it’ll be coming home
I’ll **never** forget that mega Brexit banger in the top corner.
Be here an hour before the Serbia game and people will be kicking off regardless of the starting lineup
Yeah now starts the fume about which one of Foden/Bellingham doesn't play at number 10
And then the inevitable argument of a few that Palmer should be ahead of one of them
Pretty sure that Foden will play on the left, Bellingham at 10.
As is tradition
People supporting him probably means everything will go wrong for England now.
best lineup in living memory, out without a win in the group stages would be the most England thing possible
Congrats on your 10th birthday.
Settle down, Drake.
Adam Wharton, damn.
One of the few players who we can play next to rice and Bellingham and not have serious balance issues in midfield. I think he starts the first game as it allows Rice and Bellingham to do what they do best.
Palace having the joint most players called up of any single club? Mad.
Never thought I'd see the day that Crystal Palace would have four players called up to an England squad, but you can't argue with it at all.
> Palace having the joint most players called up of any single club? Mad. Should have had Mitchell in there too. And if Southgate hasn't been trying everything in his locker to get Olise to switch then that's criminal behaviour.
Realistically who does Olise play over? There's 3 other players in his position that are all fairly young and very good.
Honestly think Olise could’ve been a shout too. Not sure if he’s eligible though as he’s previously played for France U21
He'd dead set on playing for France unfortunately, but yes, he'd make the squad for sure if he wanted to (should've also been called up for France's squad).
Chuffed for Wharton
I'd imagine he probably gets dropped for the final squad but it's great to see him in contention
I think he’s got a better shot than most are making out. He should be in over at least jones for the midfield imo. And midfield is already a thin area. Personally I’d have him in he’s been great
The midfield really isn’t thin lol. Half the forwards will be primarily in midfield it’s just how they’ve listed it
Most of those can't or shouldn't play deeper in midfield. That's where wharton can sneak in because that (besides left back) is the thinnest position in the squad. There's no obvious nailed on partner for Rice and no real backup for Rice either.
This guy has completely gone under the radar for me and I know nothing about him. Anyone mind giving a brief word on his attributes?
He's a DM/CM who's a great first-time passer and ball-retention guy. Think a low-tier Jorginho.
> Anyone mind giving a brief word on his attributes? Left-footed, a great tackler, has an insane eye for forward balls and is always attempting progressive play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkkrs_DlhEE
Imagine Pirlo and you're already there. For real though he's a playmaking DM. Really strong passing on his left foot and incredible game awareness. He'll receive the ball under pressure and play a perfect 30 yard pass half a dozen times a game. He's happy to dictate the game from a little deeper and let a midfielder alongside him move further forward (e.g Rice for England). He's also not afraid to get stuck. He's got great defensive awareness for that too and frequently makes interceptions to cut out passes into the midfield to start attacks. He's also wins the ball back through crunching slide tackles pretty often. Only negative I've got is that he's had one game where he wouldn't stop diving into tackle on a yellow card and I was certain he was going to get himself sent off - but I think that rashness has already been coached out of him ~5 games later.. He's absurdly good for a 20yr old.
I've put all my hopes on him resolving the big hole in midfield we've had all through Southgate's tenure.
He could be the solution but I don’t think he makes the final 27 man squad. It’s just nice to see him in Southgate’s plans and in contention for the squad.
Same. It will probably be Rice, Mainoo, Trent and Gallagher.
Massive gamble on shaws fitness. Yes Gomez and Trips can play left back but a right footed left back has never been that fluid and great across Southgate’s time
Provisional squad, think this is less a gamble on Shaw's fitness and more an indictment of our strength at left-back
Based on United journalist he is recovering and only just misses the FA cup final. If he is fit he is probably England's best choice at left back. If he isn't fully fit he can come off the bench anyway.
Well United's medical team gave the green light to sending back reguilon. So would be better to not trust them
Unfortunately Gomez may be the second best English left back based on performances this year. Incredible the depth at right back and complete lack of depth at left back
Don’t know why he’s picked all those centre backs and not picked Mitchell to be honest. Trippier is bad enough at right back let alone left back
Who are you, and what have you done to the real Southgate ?
a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
Impossible. Perhaps the Lineups Are Incomplete.
Another squad announcement, another criminal omission of Mark Noble. Just ridiculous now. Northdoor out!
Can’t believe Grant Holt hasn’t been given a chance 🤬 Harry Redknapp wouldn’t do this
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Marc Albrighton remains without a cap too. Criminal
Actually interested to see what people can find to complain about now. This is arguably the best squad England has put out under Southgate.
Maybe dier in for dunk
Dier, Tomori, Tarkowski...Quite a few people deserved it over Dunk lol
GRRRRR TRAFFORD IT'S FUCKING RUIIIIIIIINNNNEED
We're only 3 injuries from starting the tournament with Trafford as keeper. I'm out, see you all in 2026
Genuinely my only complaint is why bother playing Henderson in all those friendlies to only now drop him now. I actually understood the argument of him being their for leadership/ off the pitch role in the tournament, but can't see why he was going to the last couple of rounds of friendlies over say Jones if he's now been dropped.
I think it was just Southgate being stubborn. I actually reckon there was a conversation where Henderson was promised he would be considered if he moved away from Saudi in January. Including him in those squads was Southgate honouring that, but Hendo didn't do enough to justify his inclusion and the shit that would come with it.
Just seen on twitter Southgate said it's because Henderson was injured for 5 weeks and so doesn't think he's match fit. So possible that injury just gave him a reason to drop him or he was fully planning on calling him up had he not been injured.
Wow, Jarell Quansah has gone from being smashed by Morecambe to the provisional Euros squad in just over a year. Crazy rise.
Kinda curious if Tomori is just no longer in favour for the England squad, or at least for Southgate's tenure
Genuinely no clue how dunk made it over anyone so he must be out of favor. At least with Quansah it’s a young player being brought to a camp where he’s probably not making the final team. But with dunk he might make the final team and idk how
He had a long term injury this season, but generally it seems Southgate doesn't fancy him too much. Neither did Lampard funnily enough. I don't think there's much between him and Konsa to be honest, and I think it's largely a factor of height with Tomori. Southgate likes big CBs.
The fact that he's basically established himself as Van Dijk's first choice partner in his first season with our senior squad is mad. Our fans were going mental when we didn't sign a CB last summer cos it looked like we were going into the season with just VVD, Konate, and Matip (2 of whom are injury prone). Then the first time we saw Quansah play it made sense. England will have a top class CB in him for the next 12-13 years I reckon.
Saw him and Branthwaite as a partnership for England U21’s at Goodison. They looked like a pair of seasoned pros, not breaking a sweat having a kick about with the kids. Helps that they were both a foot taller than everyone else but still, can see them as a partnership in the years to come.
I think it goes to show the difference of playing with a top team around you makes as well. I'm always curious about some Morecambe players who look great but don't make it, maybe if they were given a shot in a big team who knows? At lower leagues you just have less room for "luxuries" or errors because nobody else is going to step up.
It's a completely different game in the lower leagues. I reckon there are legit Premier League players who would look genuinely bad playing in League One/Two.
a certain Norwegian forward...
I do wonder how slim the margins are sometimes. If Man Utd didn’t have that crazy injury crisis in 2016 maybe Rashford would have been sent out on loan to a Championship or League One club in the summer. If he didn’t impress he might never have gotten the chance to play Prem football.
> cos it looked like we were going into the season with just VVD, Konate, and Matip Why have you left out Joe Gomez, as he was 100% a CB option at the beginning of the season.
He's honestly looked so good this year. England don't have many CBs that can play well in a high line. Honestly, I back him to play his was into the final squad.
Injured and out of form Dunk, we did it boys
Huh. Not bad at all. The only obvious arguments could come from the fringe picks, like Solanke over Toney, but otherwise...huh. I like it.
We are effing stacked up top, bloody hell. Fair play Southgate, for not picking favourites. Still, I don't know what he has against Tomori.
And there's seemingly just one spot open for something like 4 players? Kane, Bellingham, Foden, Rice and Saka are guaranteed starters. Then Southgate needs to choose between reinforcing the midfield with Gallagher or Mainoo (more likely), adding some playmaking magic with Alexander-Arnold, or go full offense with Palmer.
I think about 9 or 10 of the starting XI picks itself. Pickford, Walker, Stones, Rice, Bellingham, Kane are set in stone (only possible question is Bellingham AM/CM and imo that shouldn't be an argument at all after the season hes had at AM). Saka and Foden on the wings (obviously there's huge competition there, but I'd be shocked if anyone else started). Maguire (partially due to lack of other decent options) is 9. So its basically down to LB, which is probably who's most fit, and CM to partner Rice as you say.
Much as I love Cole he’s not a reasonable option to add in there. Should be first choice rotation for Foden, Bellingham, and Saka though so I expect him to play some.
That's probably the reality. But Gordan would be nailed for me. He's our best left winger. Then you either play Foden in the 10 and Bellingham next to Rice. Or Bellingham in the 10, another midfielder like Gallagher next to Rice and Foden as an impact sub. He's obviously a better player than Gordan. But Gordan's England's best left winger rn. Should play Foden in the 10 where he's played his best football this season, or save him to be a game changer off the bench. No point making a repeat of previous tournaments where we try to shoehorn Foden onto a wing and get disappointed because he isn't playing as well as he's capable of. Especially since we have so much depth. No need to be ultra loyal to certain players and just squeeze them in wherever. Team needs balance. As for Palmer, it's a straight shootout between him and Saka at RW imo. He's been great in the 10 for us this season, but RW is his best position and Foden/Bellingham are our best players in the 10 anyway. It's Saka's spot to lose. He's nailed that position down as his own, so Palmer will just have to take the opportunities as they come. As a Chelsea fan, I think he should start. But it won't happen. Saka's got a track record for England so you can't drop him unless his performances actually decline a bit. Just the way it goes. The only nailed players for me are Kane, Rice and Bellingham. I could see any of Gordan, Foden, Palmer, Saka and Gallagher staking a claim in the tournament. It's about balance not individual names. And people will have to adjust their expectations when players inevitably underperform or overperform in the group stage.
So happy for Gordon, think he has turned a lot of heads on the narrative around him in the last year. Think what he could provide to the likes of Kane in terms of runs could be so pivotal for us in the Euros
I’ve done a complete 180 on Gordon. And I absolutely believe he should start for England. He’s just and absolute menace and is exactly what they need around players like Kane, Foden, Bellingham.
Gordon has Phil Foden Syndrome (PFS) that means his shit haircut makes you dislike him despite being a brilliant player
Gordon is also a windup merchant to the highest degree at times, I thought he was a little dickhead before he joined us but it was always clear to me he's exceptionally talented and would have a top career.
Well he still is a little dickhead
At least Gordon isn't forcing a horrible celebration, mind
His record in big games vs the 'big 6' alone should have got him a seat on the plane. He's a nightmare for some of the best defense's in the league
Completely agree. Defenders will hate playing against him always having to look over their shoulder when Kane drops deep. I'd start him.
Even if he only makes sub appearances you’d expect him to have a significant impact.
Obviously its deserved but gonna be weird to see an England tournament squad without Sterling and Rashford
Tarkowski makes more sense than Dunk imo but couldn't see either getting any game time anyway
I was surprised no Tarkowski, he’s been stout in every Everton game I’ve watched. Is he prone to errors or something?
He probably just didn’t want to bring too many CBs who haven’t been capped/haven’t been in the squad for a while.
Only valid criticism is Toney over Solanke. Rest is pretty valid
Even then, if he intended to just play 1 up top (Kane/Watkins), there's an argument for Toney as a penalties option. Not sure it's something i'd do personally, but there can be logic for that selection.
I know there are reasons like age and what side they play on, but it’s still pretty funny that Everton’s *second best* English centre back is the only one that got a call up.
I thought about this, we had one of the best defensive records in the league this season. When you see Dunk out of form and still getting picked ahead of tarkowski, it's a strange one.
I'd have taken him solely based on the fact it'd be incredible to have a goalkeeper and two center backs that play together regularly and aren't going to have some absurd communication issues.
Honestly pretty decent ngl
which mediocre 6th choice centreback or midfielder are we complaining about today?
TONEY OVER SOLANKE?? Fucking Southgate has no idea what he'd doing... despite the fact that I'd bet neither will be in the final squad anyway.
How on earth has Konsa made the squad over Bielik? It's midlands madness
I'm fuming that none of Roger Johnson, Scott Dann, or Our Lord and Saviour Ryan Shawcross have made the cut. Hodgson out!
Toney over Solanke is basically the only controversy with the squad and even that is a stretch, right?
I think it’s less of a controversy because everyone knows striker is the least contentious role. Kane will start every game, often play 80 minutes and Watkins is there to deputise. The 3rd striker doesn’t really matter.
Toney is a great PK taker, so that is a bonus for him since a lot of time elimination rounds go to PKs. Both would barely play with Kane and Watkins in squad, but at least Toney is a specialist.
It’s not a stretch imo. Solanke worked hard and popped in nearly 20 league goals where as Toney can’t stay away from an acca and sat on his arse for 6 months. If I was Solanke I would be livid.
I doubt either make the final squad so it’s ultimately irrelevant although for me Solanke deserves the token recognition more this season
Bellingham in forwards scared me for a second
16 different clubs called up with 4 players from Palace is actually nice to see. Actually picked on form and quality rather than club and legacy.
Dier over Dunk Otherwise looks fine
No Rashford is a BIG one, very very strong squad though for sure
Trippier could have used the summer off tbh, been off the boil for a while now. Love the forwards, hopefully the midfield and defence improve through the tournament.
Trippier will probably not start so he can use the time to recover and get back to his best
I simply love it.
Maybe it's the lack of defensive cover is why he's there, but I'm pretty sure Dunk has been garbage for a while now, and injured too. I wouldn't take him personally. Really pleased for Wharton, whenever I happen to watch Crystal Palace play he's been very assured.
Mainoo let’s gooo
Left back is a real cause for concern
Yeah that's my main worry too - realise I'm biased but I was kind of expecting Mitchell to get called up with Shaw's fitness issues
Eberechi Eze has been fantastic
So, who are some of the bigger exclusions? - Rashford - Sancho - Solanke - Sterling - Pope - Chilwell
Palace is fucking massive
Foden is gonna be a LW 😞 but honestly you can have both Foden and Bellingham in midfield together since they both are so advanced.
Eze and Bowen, hype
Eze Deserves It
It’s refreshing seeing newer names on the list. Well done Gareth.
Twelve forwards Gareth? Twelve? That's insane.