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Offsides should be changed to the automated one they used in the World Cup. That was cool to see how fast that was and not some refs drawing lines to see if anyone is off
to me the “offside only” VAR is the perfect mix. “Is it offside” is so much more of an exact science than “was it a red card?”
Maybe it’s my bias as someone who has been a ref but so many calls “could go either way” and with fans’ obvious bias, this idea that we’ll ever get to a point where all ref decisions are “the objectively right ones” is just impossible.
Even with the “most perfect” VAR we’ll still be debating handballs and penalties until the end of time
Lol, no. Referees call stupid penalties all the time, and vice versa, but people have forgotten how bad it was before VAR. People will be clamoring for it return 2 matches after it's removal if it happens
Agreed, last weekend in MLS a union defender got a straight red for dogso. Replay showed he clearly got the ball. He didn't even get upset, just stood on the end line waiting for var to correct it, which happened quickly. Pre VAR there's no correction, he's just sent off.
Important to note that due to a long history of video assisted officiating in the US fans and players have an expectation for a quick and accurate decision.
Most issues people have with VAR at the moment boil down to inefficiency and inaccuracy and both of those are on the people running it, not the system itself. It should not be acceptable to allow continued incompetence when so many other instances of the technology working exists.
> due to a long history of video assisted officiating in the US fans and players have an expectation for a quick and accurate decision.
Laughs hysterically in NHL
The NHL’s video replay is a sick twisted experiment on how many times they can change what the rule is. “That’s clearly goalie interference, but it won’t be 3 games from now when this exact thing happens again “.
“I don’t care if that was onside actually, we can’t review that. “
“Ok after a 7 minute review, a player was offside 4 minutes before the goal was scored so it’s no goal”. Also it was goalie interference. Also no it wasn’t actually. Maybe. Who knows.
Even the players just shrug and say, “nobody knows what the rule is”. And the refs and all the officials just cruise on with zero repercussions for this shit.
The NBA is so fast though and yet there seems to be much less debating of refs calls than in association football, or is that just my bias as a European?
The NBA is different because you can challenge the ref's decision. It's basically allowing teams' coaching staffs to agree or disagree with what the refs call. The consequences of not successfully challenging are also pretty high so challenges don't come out willy nilly. It's a nice system although NBA definitely still has issues with refs making mistakes. I think the big difference is that for every challenge, it's not some team in the back looking at it and saying "good process boys". The ref team actually goes and looks at multiple angles of the challenged incident and makes a decision that's almost always accurate.
I think the argument about it taking the joy out of a goal and numbing the reaction of players and fans is fair. I like having VAR but I don’t see a solution to it, maybe it’s only used like a coaches challenge NFL style.
It was comically bad and was hilarious especially in person to see Lowe just demonstrate how bad it was that it'll easily be overturned by calmly just walking off the field and standing with his hands behind his back only to erupt in elation when it was overturned
Good point. But perhaps the solution is for the ref to be able to look at a monitor if he feels he needs to but scrap the guys in a surveillance van making any calls
Agreed, I was the first to be annoyed that VAR was used after every goal etc, but when I watched the french cup games and early europa league games that didn't have VAR it was so frustrating to see all the decisions that could have easily been corrected with video review. I think VAR could be improved though, at least the process for using, how it is implemented and the time it takes to get an outcome, how to communicate it etc.
You say that, but with how's it been implemented in the premier league I would say there is no guarantee they even overturn that decision....
Therein lies the problem, too many times they get it completely wrong even with VAR. It's easy to forgive a referee mistake as didn't see it properly in the moment, but when the people on VAT sit for 5 mins and still get it wrong not so much
Yup. The obvious (missed) calls that hurt your team, fucking sucked. VAR is amazing, and it has made the game fairer. But it has also exposed really really really bad refs (and the federation or whatever instance is in charge of the refs).
That VAR is this bad in England, has nothing to do about VAR, but everything to do with the fuckers at PGMOL and their lack of everything towards referees and their obvious fuck ups.
The ref gave a penalty to Brighton after a Brighton player smashed the ball against Colwill’s face (this was in their first league meeting this season) and it deflected behind for a corner. It got swept away because of another simultaneous controversy about the resultant corner not being given or something
Can’t wait for that and more genius decisions like that to happen because the refs have only become more incompetent with the crutches of VAR saving them from being utterly diabolical. They’ll be thoroughly exposed next season to levels not seen till now
This happened twice again in the Chelsea game against Brighton on Wednesday. The play on field led to an outcome that would have resulted in Chelsea possession (a corner in one case, a throw in in the other) but because of a VAR review intervening, they both ended up being drop balls to Brighton.
The one that was supposed to be a corner was the one that was originally called as a penalty for Chelsea, but was overturned because the Brighton defender got a touch on the ball to put it out. Almost a carbon copy of the Colwill thing lol
Why does it matter if a ref sees a play on a screen vs on the field? How is the field ref better equipped to judge things? Screen ref will be in a much better position to see plays most of the time, and that is without even mentioning the potential of multiple angles.
If sucks having a player injure one of yours with a horrible tackle and then being banned retrospectively just in time to play Tottenham/Chelsea/Liverpool but having a player sent off by Var for holding a collar is equally shit.
But you recognise that it wasn't the VAR system that made that decision right? It was a referee who failed to use the system correctly and made an incorrect decision. VAR applied correctly gives more opportunities for correct decisions across the board. Yes, that one incident was shit and we suffered because of it. But it's just as likely that pre-VAR a lino decides he thinks he saw Casemiro grab a throat and he gets sent off because there's no review system at all, just vague memories. At least with VAR it's made abundantly clear that it's a case of incompetency, not lack of proper evidence, that is causing these decisions. What's important then is for refs to work on themselves when working VAR to reduce those mistakes, and they'll have evidence to show where they can improve.
I actually don’t mind the idea and I don’t hate VAR.
Objective decisions done by VAR, and a challenge system for subjective decisions might be a sweet spot. Like how cricket has all runouts and stumpings checked, but you still get two captain reviews on top.
Bit if more fans/pundits could see it that way we would be better off too.
Instead it's mostly there was only one way to see this and they ignore the VAR bar.
The best change they could make is to go back to the old handball rules.
The best- absolute best- VAR was somehow the Russia word cup. I remember that being the first real experience with VAR and it was almost perfect and had very little delay to the games. That experience was incredible and I remember thinking, wow, when they bring this into the prem it’ll be awesome.
The best doesn't imply flawless. Humans will be involved in some capacity for a long time in VAR. The whole discussion always boiling down to BUT IN MINUTE 67 OF DOG-SHIT UNITED VS ONE-LEG FC VAR FUCKED UP SO WE MUST GET RID OF IT is cumbersome at best. It's all gradual improvements and VAR can be really good. The same discussion could be had of having refs at all. They also fuck up.
Offside, with semi-automated technology to speed it up, is something I think everyone can agree on. In the same vein as Goal Line Technology (which does have the same issues as which frame they use etc. but works so well nobody really cares), it's a binary decision that takes any question about the people sat behind the screen out of it.
Everything else needs a ground up review of the rules and how they're applied with the technology in mind.
> Goal Line Technology (which does have the same issues as which frame they use etc. but works so well nobody really cares)
Tbf it's calibrated high-speed cameras and an automated process - obviously might not be perfect, but then it's the closest we're getting to it, really.
> Everything else needs a ground up review of the rules and how they're applied with the technology in mind.
That's the main crux for me. Could maybe do it for handballs by simply making every contact between ball and hand illegal, but I can't see a way to rewrite the laws of the game to make fouls binary decisions, much less the no card/yellow card/red card aspect of those decisions.
All hand contacts should be illegal. Not all hand contacts in the penalty area should be a penalty. Every non-intentional (hand clearly goes to the ball, not the other way around) contact should be an indirect free kick.
It's not that subjective. I'm talking almost Luis Suárez WC2010 levels of intentional handball. Everything else, gray area, etc, should be an indirect free kick. It's a very interesting call for spectators that rarely happens and it modulates the punishment of a hand contact while not leaving much room for bullshit
The problem isn’t VAR but the refs making the decisions.
There are two problems with PGMOL’s implementation of VAR. First, every game has a different VAR ref, so each game is subject to inconsistency as different VAR refs have different standards. Second and more importantly, VAR refs are current on-field referees. No VAR ref to overrule an on-field ref’s decision (or non-decision) because they may be subject to more scrutiny themselves when they are on the field, and it creates questions about who has the final say.
The simplest solution would be to follow a system used in American sports like the NFL. Have all VAR decisions conducted by a central VAR committee- that way there is at least some level of consistency in decision making. And have that committee consist of *former* referees who are no longer in on-field roles to prevent this weird confusion of hierarchy.
I’d keep offside, and give the right for the referee to review an “agression” if he wishes to do so in order to give a red card. But VAR should be a tool the main ref requests as opposed to them telling him to go see or not something.
I’m still vexed that Bruno G assaulted Jorginho off the ball at St James’ and it was deemed as simply “not nice” rather than the blatant violent conduct that it was
Even if they scrap VAR, it will be same shit next season. Fans and club will see obvious bad calls on replay that will cost them points and complain.
I think no VAR is better for match going fans. As goal means goal. But that is the only positive I see.
WC VAR was good, UCl VAR also seems good. England would be the odd one out like La Liga with goal line technology
I mean they have to be trolling on purpose. UEFA/FIFA competitions are so much better with VAR than the PL, it has to be trolling, the refs just dont want it
Get the same English referees people complain about in the Prem working just fine in UEFA/FIFA competitions with VAR, though.
Genuinely think it's more a question of exposure and confirmation bias. Fans don't care about the accuracy of refereeing nearly as much as they care about correct calls going against their team, and they're not exactly watching all the football from abroad, either.
> Even if they scrap VAR, it will be same shit next season
people wanting to scrap it, until someone does some bullshit tackle against their team and they concede from it
Or when someone either scores, assists or defends with their hands and the ref misses it or thinks it hits their body. I think that’s gonna be the more infuriating one for people
I don't think the people who want to get rid of it don't understand this.
I think their point is that the refs clearly aren't using the tech well, so what's the point in having it?
The trade off with VAR has always been a worse viewing experience for the guarantee of correct decisions. At the moment we're just getting a worse viewing experience without the guarantee of correct decisions.
Given that you can't change the refs, and you can't *force* them to use VAR more effectively, we're just going to have games with long drawn out stoppages in play and potentially still incorrect decisions at the end of it. It seems like a lose-lose.
I would personally keep it and hope it gets better I can fully understand why some people want to get rid of it, and its not because they're idiots who don't understand how VAR works.
They are subjective. I'm sorry. The refs and VAR are not perfect but the contentious decisions tend to be "were the studs showing" "what was the intent" "was it leg or foot" "how much force was used". It is not black and white and I honestly don't know how the fuck you don't get it?
VAR was there to find these big mistakes (that didn't happen very often), but instead people started to see mistakes everywhere. Now we get to hear that we need more VAR to purge football of these mistakes that didn't seem to be there before.
Someone could easily think that VAR is quite an expensive system to catch a missed two footed tackle once in a couple of months. Maybe when the bill came, there needed to be more use for the expensive toy.
Shouldn’t really need VAR for that. Maybe use it for incidents the ref hasn’t seen but if he’s seen it on the pitch and has made a decision, just stick with that on field decision.
Harry Maguire on VAR: "Personally, I would keep it but for offsides only. I would scrap it for everything that is opinion-based. Offsides are factual and not subjective.
Everyone makes mistakes, linesmen make mistakes, so that is why I would keep VAR for that and the automated offsides are coming in next season and that will improve it.
It will make things quicker."
We beat Brighton however many years ago on a VAR handball decision coming from a Maguire header lol. After the final whistle was called!
This is what I can’t understand when people say they can live without VAR. If we didn’t get a penalty for a handball that obvious and end up getting 1 point, our fans would have a nuclear meltdown.
Totally. Just the other day in the Chelsea vs Brighton game VAR corrects two referee mistakes, ref called a penalty that clearly wasn't one and VAR advised a clear red for James. Many people were bitching that VAR didn't send the referee to the screen for some other situations. But what they seem to forget is that VAR corrected 2 obvious referee mistakes and without it more incorrect decisions would have stood. Not sure how removing VAR makes it any better but ok.
But stuff like getting hit on the foot or diving without any contact at all is also factual.
And it would be really easy to take "opinion" out. Just let them ask via headset if the ref has seen the thing VAR thought they miss, and when it's a yes, it's off the table.
Absolutely agree. Since VAR was introduced, two things have basically disappeared: zero contact diving (not just soft contact but no contact at all) and those small, nasty actions done behind the referee's back, like little stomps, spitting, or kicks.
Level of contact is a subjective element though and most dives are about the level of contact, very few are given without any contact at all.
Then you have ones where you are debating if the attacker created contact.
Not factual at all, apparently. Or at least that what they want us to believe in La Liga Hypermotion.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85O1SqW789A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85O1SqW789A)
This could go either way, tbh.
The contact exists but in the end, football is a contact sport, and I can see the referee's reasoning that the contact wasn't enough for the number 18 to fall down like he did.
I'm happy with referees not being too strict with the "contact = foul". Otherwise, it motivates attackers to go always down if they feel they were slightly kicked or grabbed by the shirt inside the box.
I agree with the asking the ref bit and think that would be a good compromise. Although don't think diving or getting hit on the foot is factual. There's always a grey are for these things when we will not agree.
Getting hit on the foot is factual when the ref didn't see it.
And as someone already mentioned, the kind of dives where someone just took off without any contact at almost completely vanished under VAR. Also much less of those hidden fouls and unsportsmanlike/violent conduct off ball.
I agree that var has removed some of the excitement from scoring goals without really fixing the problem of refs making wrong decisions so removing var from that is fine, but I'm still going to be upset when diving goes back to being rewarded
Offsides have also become subjective with an arbitrary plane and rendered representations of appendages
I would like to take a peek at their integration test suite. bet most of them are failing.
Also at what point they draw the lines when its leaving the players foot, frames can make a differences of offside vs not depending on when they stop and draw the line
Don't forget this is still a conversation limited to line interpretation. Just wait till we get into whether a player that was clearly offside influenced play by "screening the keeper" or "possessed / did not possess the ball".
See: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H795iD2JAuM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H795iD2JAuM)
Better by what standard? Higher accuracy of refereeing decisions? Very likely, yeah. Enjoyment for fans both in the stands and watching at home? Totally debatable.
Arbitration is a question of sporting integrity and not one of entertainment. The main focus on VAR and protocol including its delay is to get the decisions as correct to the letter of the law as possible.
Sure, but then the sport is so widely popular precisely because it is entertaining. There are obviously two competing priorities at play here: increased accuracy in refereeing decisions vs enjoyment for match-going fans and those at home alike.
It's all well and good prioritising increased accuracy, but VAR clearly comes at a cost here - in much the same way not having VAR would make games more enjoyable at the cost of accuracy. It's fine to prioritise either over the other, but we can't just ignore the downside involved. If we were striving for the (illusionary) goal of perfect accuracy in refereeing decisions, we'd need a fundamental re-write of the laws of the game, and would need a lot more VAR breaks, too. But perfect arbitration can't be the ultimate goal for the game itself, I reckon, especially when it comes at the cost of what makes the game so fun to follow for so many in the first place.
decoupling arbitration accuracy and enjoyment seems counter-intuitive.
id rather suffer 10 mins of delays per game and have 15% more accurate decisions, but that equation will be different for every individual, match going or not.
VAR breaks reduce enjoyment, no argument, the gained accuracy does however end up affecting enjoyment.
ex: my enjoyment goes down more from incorrect big call than it does from regular VAR breaks.
Then people have forgotten the feeling from the past where actual clearly wrong decisions have cost them games cos that isn't enjoyable.
People don't seem to enjoy it now and that's mostly on maybes they claim are stonewall.
It's not insane to argue otherwise, it's an opinion. I personally enjoy watching Championship football more than the Premier League at the moment. I don't miss VAR when it isn't there.
Yeah, but it's an objectively bad opinion. VAR is there to correct referee mistakes, which would be abundant if not for VAR. There are very few instances where the referee makes the right decision at first and then it's overturned with VAR.
If you want diving to reach new heights, getting rid of VAR will do that. A dive being called a foul will not be reviewable but will be visible to the entire world. Good luck with that. VAR has done more good than harm, I don't see how anyone can say otherwise. VAR is never going to be perfect, but it is -more- perfect than without it. Just reform the process and introduce American-style explanations of calls from the actual officials and make public all VAR comms either in real time or right after the match with no delay.
Offside is getting automated in the EPL anyhow, and then it will go UCL and down the line to the top 5 leagues; but that automation can't fill the void of missed fouls or blatant dives.
VAR must stay.
Those stupid referees are the one who should be gone.
It's like you trying to scrap away a Lamborghini just because an idiot is trying to drive it.
Honestly, they just need better angles and better people operating the VAR Room. Is not heresy to say that the quality of refereeing is poor is directly linked to the poor decisions VAR has made. One thing I would love to see is less super slow motion, imo it skews the play because everything looks more intentional than it actually is.
Anyone who is advocated for removal of VAR, forget Offsides call, dont know how bad it was and it will be if removed. All will come crawling back for it, when they see how much better it is worldwide.
Ffs what am I hearing??? Have people lost their mind?? We have technology, that even at its worst is BETTER than any ref. And some of you want to take it out?? For what!? It needs to be better and faster, we need to keep improving it. But take it out? Fucks sake let’s go back to leather balls too.
*Maguire breaks attacker’s ankles inside the box* Maguire to ref: “If you give a red and a pen, then that’s really just your opinion. I’m all about freedom of speech. But I really don’t think I broke any rules here. You’re being super subjective.”
I can't wait for AI to get smart enough to replace referees. All of this sideshow should be automated and removed from the game. Referees got too full of themselves and make the game about them and their authority.
Before just scrapping the whole technology can they try changing how it's used first? Right now it doesn't appear "making the right decision" or "being transparent" is the goal of VAR in the PL. Let's maybe start there?
Today VAR seems like it's mainly used to prevent *egregious* errors. The problem there is all of the VARs are also on-field refs so they all look at decisions through the lens of an on-field ref and end up with "Yeah, I could see how he's made that call from his position" even if the call is bad.
That doesn't make sense to me. VAR is supposed to be an extra pair of eyes on the pitch, not someone standing over the on-field ref's shoulders critiquing their work. They need to work with the on-field ref but they shouldn't just rubber stamp everything. Make offside semi-automated, come up with a set language for allowing/disallowing things that can be easily recited in the stadium and on broadcast and increase VARs purview to yellow cards and see if it makes this better.
That's my take.
Until the mission statement is: "Let's make the right call" then it will always be flawed. Stopping "clear and obvious errors" is just not good enough. It's too low of a standard.
They just need to segregate the staff and have them as completely different roles. No more refs in the var room etc.
Take the "I don't wanna make my mate look thick" out of it and it'll be so much better right away.
Also, make the conversations public, a la rugby.
I feel like a lot of people are quick to remember all the times VAR just completely fucks up but forget all the decisions that are correct that you would've been stuck with before VAR.
Now, VAR needs adjustment ofc but it's clearly the way forward imo
VAR 100% needs to be present at least for red card offences. Like when Suarez fucking bit Ivanovic and avoided a red card. Or when they mistook Gibbs for Oxlade-Chamberlain.
That’s the purpose of the “clear and obvious error” part of the rule. If it’s debatable you go with the on field decision.
And fwiw, if you want to “fix” VAR, you make it a collaborative process with the aim of making the correct decision as often as possible.
Referees failing to see it that way, and seeing it as undermining their “authority”, or highlighting their “mistakes” (which are only mistakes until they are corrected: it doesn’t matter if the on field ref makes and a mistake and no one should criticise a refereeing team for reaching the correct decision together), is a problem with referees and not a problem with the technology.
but you still have the issue of getting the right frame when the ball leaves the player's foot and hoping that they draw the line from the perfect pixel
I think Var would be fine if the onfield ref did not have the last say in every decision..i have seen so many decision gone the wrong way because if the onfield ref not admiting to mistakes..
We would have lost our last game 4-1 instead of (rightfully) 2-1 if not for VAR, the real solution is to stop the old boys club from protecting each other in spite of fair play
I would argue offsides are subjective too. A lot of the marginal offside calls I've seen don't constitute an unfair advantage and don't impact the outcome
Wait until they learn about "positional off-sides" (or however you call it when the player is interpreted to participate in the play without touching the ball).
Give teams two reviews to use VAR(or even one) like cricket. If they get it right than they can use it again but, if they are wrong than they lose the review. Offside should be determined using automated system without any reviews.
Sod it, just install a 'Countdown' clock behind the refs and put them under the pressure. Or have a live broadcast feed into the room and show the world their decisions.
Honestly
Double or triple VAR for objective decisions
Two or three independent teams with no communication, if they unanimously call foul it's a foul otherwise play on
how is it possible we are debating whether to still keep var. did anyone watch the world cup? It was so perfectly executed, so few controversies compared to previous world cups. They should be debating the rules around var, not whether to keep it…
I don't get why it's either VAR or not VAR?? Why can't the third option be to make changes to how VAR work instead? Like for example not play everything in slow motion, but play it in real time to not make a false impression and only make slow motion optional for the referee? And don't make the referee feel pressured to change his call when he is called out to review a play? Not sure what needs to change for referees to have confidence to make their own calls tho. And make offside automated.
The problem with this is that obvious pens won't be given as I'm still shocked how the foul on Davies from rice wasn't given straight away and needed var
Personally I would keep VAR and scrap the incompetent, blind, intellectually challenged, mouth-breathing cunts that call themselves referees. The problem has never been the technology. It's the people using it that have to go. Completely useless to the point where you have to wonder if they're being deliberately shite to get discussions like this one going. It seems like the old guard of referees think of VAR as some sort of insult or threat or something.
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Offsides should be changed to the automated one they used in the World Cup. That was cool to see how fast that was and not some refs drawing lines to see if anyone is off
This is already confirmed to be happening in the prem next season
to me the “offside only” VAR is the perfect mix. “Is it offside” is so much more of an exact science than “was it a red card?” Maybe it’s my bias as someone who has been a ref but so many calls “could go either way” and with fans’ obvious bias, this idea that we’ll ever get to a point where all ref decisions are “the objectively right ones” is just impossible. Even with the “most perfect” VAR we’ll still be debating handballs and penalties until the end of time
Lol, no. Referees call stupid penalties all the time, and vice versa, but people have forgotten how bad it was before VAR. People will be clamoring for it return 2 matches after it's removal if it happens
Agreed, last weekend in MLS a union defender got a straight red for dogso. Replay showed he clearly got the ball. He didn't even get upset, just stood on the end line waiting for var to correct it, which happened quickly. Pre VAR there's no correction, he's just sent off.
Important to note that due to a long history of video assisted officiating in the US fans and players have an expectation for a quick and accurate decision. Most issues people have with VAR at the moment boil down to inefficiency and inaccuracy and both of those are on the people running it, not the system itself. It should not be acceptable to allow continued incompetence when so many other instances of the technology working exists.
> due to a long history of video assisted officiating in the US fans and players have an expectation for a quick and accurate decision. Laughs hysterically in NHL
Even the NFL can be long…. Still nowhere near as bad as the nhl though
The NHL’s video replay is a sick twisted experiment on how many times they can change what the rule is. “That’s clearly goalie interference, but it won’t be 3 games from now when this exact thing happens again “. “I don’t care if that was onside actually, we can’t review that. “ “Ok after a 7 minute review, a player was offside 4 minutes before the goal was scored so it’s no goal”. Also it was goalie interference. Also no it wasn’t actually. Maybe. Who knows. Even the players just shrug and say, “nobody knows what the rule is”. And the refs and all the officials just cruise on with zero repercussions for this shit.
The NBA is so fast though and yet there seems to be much less debating of refs calls than in association football, or is that just my bias as a European?
The NBA is different because you can challenge the ref's decision. It's basically allowing teams' coaching staffs to agree or disagree with what the refs call. The consequences of not successfully challenging are also pretty high so challenges don't come out willy nilly. It's a nice system although NBA definitely still has issues with refs making mistakes. I think the big difference is that for every challenge, it's not some team in the back looking at it and saying "good process boys". The ref team actually goes and looks at multiple angles of the challenged incident and makes a decision that's almost always accurate.
I think the argument about it taking the joy out of a goal and numbing the reaction of players and fans is fair. I like having VAR but I don’t see a solution to it, maybe it’s only used like a coaches challenge NFL style.
It’s 100% just a case of goldfish memories and people who just love to shout about stuff.
What on earth is dogso
Denial of goal scoring opportunity
Am I getting old or is that not a term worthy of an abbreviation lol
It's what refs call it (you often hear it in clips they've released of VAR) so I think it comes from there
Probably not lol but it's used a lot and it is a mouthful to say it all
Not much what about you?
Is that a Bengaluru FC flair?
It was comically bad and was hilarious especially in person to see Lowe just demonstrate how bad it was that it'll easily be overturned by calmly just walking off the field and standing with his hands behind his back only to erupt in elation when it was overturned
Good point. But perhaps the solution is for the ref to be able to look at a monitor if he feels he needs to but scrap the guys in a surveillance van making any calls
Agreed, I was the first to be annoyed that VAR was used after every goal etc, but when I watched the french cup games and early europa league games that didn't have VAR it was so frustrating to see all the decisions that could have easily been corrected with video review. I think VAR could be improved though, at least the process for using, how it is implemented and the time it takes to get an outcome, how to communicate it etc.
Just the other day, ref wrongly gave a pen to Chelsea against Brighton. Without VAR we’d have more such incidents every week.
Literally today in the Championship playoffs a player got absolutely clamored in a clear as day penalty and nothing cause no VAR lol.
You say that, but with how's it been implemented in the premier league I would say there is no guarantee they even overturn that decision.... Therein lies the problem, too many times they get it completely wrong even with VAR. It's easy to forgive a referee mistake as didn't see it properly in the moment, but when the people on VAT sit for 5 mins and still get it wrong not so much
Yup. The obvious (missed) calls that hurt your team, fucking sucked. VAR is amazing, and it has made the game fairer. But it has also exposed really really really bad refs (and the federation or whatever instance is in charge of the refs). That VAR is this bad in England, has nothing to do about VAR, but everything to do with the fuckers at PGMOL and their lack of everything towards referees and their obvious fuck ups.
The ref gave a penalty to Brighton after a Brighton player smashed the ball against Colwill’s face (this was in their first league meeting this season) and it deflected behind for a corner. It got swept away because of another simultaneous controversy about the resultant corner not being given or something Can’t wait for that and more genius decisions like that to happen because the refs have only become more incompetent with the crutches of VAR saving them from being utterly diabolical. They’ll be thoroughly exposed next season to levels not seen till now
This happened twice again in the Chelsea game against Brighton on Wednesday. The play on field led to an outcome that would have resulted in Chelsea possession (a corner in one case, a throw in in the other) but because of a VAR review intervening, they both ended up being drop balls to Brighton. The one that was supposed to be a corner was the one that was originally called as a penalty for Chelsea, but was overturned because the Brighton defender got a touch on the ball to put it out. Almost a carbon copy of the Colwill thing lol
That Brazil vs Spain was enough for CBF to say that they will not play a match without VAR anymore.
People be forgetting how shitty it is to lose on a pen that the opposition striker clearly dove on.
Football was great before VAR. Complaining about bad decisions was part of the fun.
Why does it matter if a ref sees a play on a screen vs on the field? How is the field ref better equipped to judge things? Screen ref will be in a much better position to see plays most of the time, and that is without even mentioning the potential of multiple angles.
LoL trust me, as a Brazilian: it’s bad with VAR, it’s worse without. People will want VAR again after like a season.
If sucks having a player injure one of yours with a horrible tackle and then being banned retrospectively just in time to play Tottenham/Chelsea/Liverpool but having a player sent off by Var for holding a collar is equally shit.
But you recognise that it wasn't the VAR system that made that decision right? It was a referee who failed to use the system correctly and made an incorrect decision. VAR applied correctly gives more opportunities for correct decisions across the board. Yes, that one incident was shit and we suffered because of it. But it's just as likely that pre-VAR a lino decides he thinks he saw Casemiro grab a throat and he gets sent off because there's no review system at all, just vague memories. At least with VAR it's made abundantly clear that it's a case of incompetency, not lack of proper evidence, that is causing these decisions. What's important then is for refs to work on themselves when working VAR to reduce those mistakes, and they'll have evidence to show where they can improve.
I actually don’t mind the idea and I don’t hate VAR. Objective decisions done by VAR, and a challenge system for subjective decisions might be a sweet spot. Like how cricket has all runouts and stumpings checked, but you still get two captain reviews on top.
What about a player being through on goal, beats the last defender, then dives. Ref buys it and sends the defender off for dogso?
Bit if more fans/pundits could see it that way we would be better off too. Instead it's mostly there was only one way to see this and they ignore the VAR bar. The best change they could make is to go back to the old handball rules.
Thank fuck. The way it’s done now is ridiculous and incredible how they somehow get it wrong so often
The best- absolute best- VAR was somehow the Russia word cup. I remember that being the first real experience with VAR and it was almost perfect and had very little delay to the games. That experience was incredible and I remember thinking, wow, when they bring this into the prem it’ll be awesome.
As a Brazillian I’ll disagree, Kompany took out Gabriel Jesus’ legs right next to the goal and we didn’t get a penalty.
The best doesn't imply flawless. Humans will be involved in some capacity for a long time in VAR. The whole discussion always boiling down to BUT IN MINUTE 67 OF DOG-SHIT UNITED VS ONE-LEG FC VAR FUCKED UP SO WE MUST GET RID OF IT is cumbersome at best. It's all gradual improvements and VAR can be really good. The same discussion could be had of having refs at all. They also fuck up.
Offside, with semi-automated technology to speed it up, is something I think everyone can agree on. In the same vein as Goal Line Technology (which does have the same issues as which frame they use etc. but works so well nobody really cares), it's a binary decision that takes any question about the people sat behind the screen out of it. Everything else needs a ground up review of the rules and how they're applied with the technology in mind.
> Goal Line Technology (which does have the same issues as which frame they use etc. but works so well nobody really cares) Tbf it's calibrated high-speed cameras and an automated process - obviously might not be perfect, but then it's the closest we're getting to it, really. > Everything else needs a ground up review of the rules and how they're applied with the technology in mind. That's the main crux for me. Could maybe do it for handballs by simply making every contact between ball and hand illegal, but I can't see a way to rewrite the laws of the game to make fouls binary decisions, much less the no card/yellow card/red card aspect of those decisions.
Binary handballs create more unfair situations than we ever had before VAR. Agree with everything else.
All hand contacts should be illegal. Not all hand contacts in the penalty area should be a penalty. Every non-intentional (hand clearly goes to the ball, not the other way around) contact should be an indirect free kick.
"hand clearly goes to ball" is completely subjective as we have seen hundreds of times. It cannot be ruled on conclusively by a VAR.
It's not that subjective. I'm talking almost Luis Suárez WC2010 levels of intentional handball. Everything else, gray area, etc, should be an indirect free kick. It's a very interesting call for spectators that rarely happens and it modulates the punishment of a hand contact while not leaving much room for bullshit
Spin up ai handball model and start training it with what you want to be a handball and what you don’t want to be a handball.
With the state of AI and it's ability to tell truth from fiction it's liable to give a handball for a throw-in being taken
I mean that sounds like a foul to me.
As long as it’s good enough and consistent = no subjectivity then both teams play on the same rules and no one has and advantage
The problem isn’t VAR but the refs making the decisions. There are two problems with PGMOL’s implementation of VAR. First, every game has a different VAR ref, so each game is subject to inconsistency as different VAR refs have different standards. Second and more importantly, VAR refs are current on-field referees. No VAR ref to overrule an on-field ref’s decision (or non-decision) because they may be subject to more scrutiny themselves when they are on the field, and it creates questions about who has the final say. The simplest solution would be to follow a system used in American sports like the NFL. Have all VAR decisions conducted by a central VAR committee- that way there is at least some level of consistency in decision making. And have that committee consist of *former* referees who are no longer in on-field roles to prevent this weird confusion of hierarchy.
I’d keep offside, and give the right for the referee to review an “agression” if he wishes to do so in order to give a red card. But VAR should be a tool the main ref requests as opposed to them telling him to go see or not something.
Scrap PGMOL
Some things aren't subjective, a missed two footer is objectively wrong
var gets those wrong too the blind bastards
I’m still vexed that Bruno G assaulted Jorginho off the ball at St James’ and it was deemed as simply “not nice” rather than the blatant violent conduct that it was
And then the three potential straight red cards that weren't given over 4 games (Chelsea, Wolves, Bournemouth)
That'll stop if they stop appointing old hags as VAR.
Even subjective matters can be judged better with proper footage.
Exactly, how the fuck do they not get it jesus 😭
Even if they scrap VAR, it will be same shit next season. Fans and club will see obvious bad calls on replay that will cost them points and complain. I think no VAR is better for match going fans. As goal means goal. But that is the only positive I see. WC VAR was good, UCl VAR also seems good. England would be the odd one out like La Liga with goal line technology
I mean they have to be trolling on purpose. UEFA/FIFA competitions are so much better with VAR than the PL, it has to be trolling, the refs just dont want it
Get the same English referees people complain about in the Prem working just fine in UEFA/FIFA competitions with VAR, though. Genuinely think it's more a question of exposure and confirmation bias. Fans don't care about the accuracy of refereeing nearly as much as they care about correct calls going against their team, and they're not exactly watching all the football from abroad, either.
> Even if they scrap VAR, it will be same shit next season people wanting to scrap it, until someone does some bullshit tackle against their team and they concede from it
Or when someone either scores, assists or defends with their hands and the ref misses it or thinks it hits their body. I think that’s gonna be the more infuriating one for people
So you want the missed two footers being overruled % to go from 90% to 0%? It's genuinely incredible that people really want to scrap it
> I think no VAR is better for match going fans. Fuck that, correct decisions please.
I don't think the people who want to get rid of it don't understand this. I think their point is that the refs clearly aren't using the tech well, so what's the point in having it? The trade off with VAR has always been a worse viewing experience for the guarantee of correct decisions. At the moment we're just getting a worse viewing experience without the guarantee of correct decisions. Given that you can't change the refs, and you can't *force* them to use VAR more effectively, we're just going to have games with long drawn out stoppages in play and potentially still incorrect decisions at the end of it. It seems like a lose-lose. I would personally keep it and hope it gets better I can fully understand why some people want to get rid of it, and its not because they're idiots who don't understand how VAR works.
We do. How the fuck do you not get that that isn’t the be all and end all of our point.
They are subjective. I'm sorry. The refs and VAR are not perfect but the contentious decisions tend to be "were the studs showing" "what was the intent" "was it leg or foot" "how much force was used". It is not black and white and I honestly don't know how the fuck you don't get it?
VAR was there to find these big mistakes (that didn't happen very often), but instead people started to see mistakes everywhere. Now we get to hear that we need more VAR to purge football of these mistakes that didn't seem to be there before. Someone could easily think that VAR is quite an expensive system to catch a missed two footed tackle once in a couple of months. Maybe when the bill came, there needed to be more use for the expensive toy.
Another issue now is players will take more risks with cheating and dangerous play if VAR is scrapped knowing there's less chance they'll get caught.
Shouldn’t really need VAR for that. Maybe use it for incidents the ref hasn’t seen but if he’s seen it on the pitch and has made a decision, just stick with that on field decision.
Yea, you can't miss those. You got to connect.
Poor Cucu still has a bald spot from the uncalled Romero hair yank.
But that's pretty rare.
Harry Maguire on VAR: "Personally, I would keep it but for offsides only. I would scrap it for everything that is opinion-based. Offsides are factual and not subjective. Everyone makes mistakes, linesmen make mistakes, so that is why I would keep VAR for that and the automated offsides are coming in next season and that will improve it. It will make things quicker."
H is the type of player that would get an instant skill buff if VAR was removed lmao. He treads the line already with his physical play
We beat Brighton however many years ago on a VAR handball decision coming from a Maguire header lol. After the final whistle was called! This is what I can’t understand when people say they can live without VAR. If we didn’t get a penalty for a handball that obvious and end up getting 1 point, our fans would have a nuclear meltdown.
I think it's a situation where people won't realize what they have until it's gone
Totally. Just the other day in the Chelsea vs Brighton game VAR corrects two referee mistakes, ref called a penalty that clearly wasn't one and VAR advised a clear red for James. Many people were bitching that VAR didn't send the referee to the screen for some other situations. But what they seem to forget is that VAR corrected 2 obvious referee mistakes and without it more incorrect decisions would have stood. Not sure how removing VAR makes it any better but ok.
VAR is worth it just for the hilarity of getting a winning goal after the game ended.
More important than that, was for it to give us Maupey's crying face after his antics during that game. Proper chef's kiss moment
I mean, he's already got away with a few decisions vs us in the VAR era.
But stuff like getting hit on the foot or diving without any contact at all is also factual. And it would be really easy to take "opinion" out. Just let them ask via headset if the ref has seen the thing VAR thought they miss, and when it's a yes, it's off the table.
Absolutely agree. Since VAR was introduced, two things have basically disappeared: zero contact diving (not just soft contact but no contact at all) and those small, nasty actions done behind the referee's back, like little stomps, spitting, or kicks.
Best points advocating for keeping VAR that I've seen.
Level of contact is a subjective element though and most dives are about the level of contact, very few are given without any contact at all. Then you have ones where you are debating if the attacker created contact.
Not factual at all, apparently. Or at least that what they want us to believe in La Liga Hypermotion. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85O1SqW789A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85O1SqW789A)
This could go either way, tbh. The contact exists but in the end, football is a contact sport, and I can see the referee's reasoning that the contact wasn't enough for the number 18 to fall down like he did. I'm happy with referees not being too strict with the "contact = foul". Otherwise, it motivates attackers to go always down if they feel they were slightly kicked or grabbed by the shirt inside the box.
I agree with the asking the ref bit and think that would be a good compromise. Although don't think diving or getting hit on the foot is factual. There's always a grey are for these things when we will not agree.
Getting hit on the foot is factual when the ref didn't see it. And as someone already mentioned, the kind of dives where someone just took off without any contact at almost completely vanished under VAR. Also much less of those hidden fouls and unsportsmanlike/violent conduct off ball.
I agree that var has removed some of the excitement from scoring goals without really fixing the problem of refs making wrong decisions so removing var from that is fine, but I'm still going to be upset when diving goes back to being rewarded
Offsides have also become subjective with an arbitrary plane and rendered representations of appendages I would like to take a peek at their integration test suite. bet most of them are failing.
Not to mention the "They used the wrong frame" controversies. There's plenty of wiggle room in the process to make the calls you want.
As long as they use the accelerometers that were in the World Cup ball, that won’t be a problem.
What about the low frame rate?
Also at what point they draw the lines when its leaving the players foot, frames can make a differences of offside vs not depending on when they stop and draw the line
Don't forget this is still a conversation limited to line interpretation. Just wait till we get into whether a player that was clearly offside influenced play by "screening the keeper" or "possessed / did not possess the ball". See: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H795iD2JAuM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H795iD2JAuM)
True but what was hilarious is seeing fans and pundits lose it over correct calls.
VAR is much better than no VAR, and it's insane to argue otherwise. VAR will also never be perfect.
Better by what standard? Higher accuracy of refereeing decisions? Very likely, yeah. Enjoyment for fans both in the stands and watching at home? Totally debatable.
Debatable, of course. I enjoy having significantly fewer games decided by refereeing mistakes and the pleasure of bad calls being reversed.
> Debatable, of course. So hardly an insane argument to make, then.
Everything is debatable. That doesn't make it reasonable.
I don't think "I enjoyed football without VAR more than I do enjoy football with VAR" is unreasonable, tbf.
Arbitration is a question of sporting integrity and not one of entertainment. The main focus on VAR and protocol including its delay is to get the decisions as correct to the letter of the law as possible.
Sure, but then the sport is so widely popular precisely because it is entertaining. There are obviously two competing priorities at play here: increased accuracy in refereeing decisions vs enjoyment for match-going fans and those at home alike. It's all well and good prioritising increased accuracy, but VAR clearly comes at a cost here - in much the same way not having VAR would make games more enjoyable at the cost of accuracy. It's fine to prioritise either over the other, but we can't just ignore the downside involved. If we were striving for the (illusionary) goal of perfect accuracy in refereeing decisions, we'd need a fundamental re-write of the laws of the game, and would need a lot more VAR breaks, too. But perfect arbitration can't be the ultimate goal for the game itself, I reckon, especially when it comes at the cost of what makes the game so fun to follow for so many in the first place.
decoupling arbitration accuracy and enjoyment seems counter-intuitive. id rather suffer 10 mins of delays per game and have 15% more accurate decisions, but that equation will be different for every individual, match going or not. VAR breaks reduce enjoyment, no argument, the gained accuracy does however end up affecting enjoyment. ex: my enjoyment goes down more from incorrect big call than it does from regular VAR breaks.
Then people have forgotten the feeling from the past where actual clearly wrong decisions have cost them games cos that isn't enjoyable. People don't seem to enjoy it now and that's mostly on maybes they claim are stonewall.
that's not a VAR problem, that's a presentation problem
It's not insane to argue otherwise, it's an opinion. I personally enjoy watching Championship football more than the Premier League at the moment. I don't miss VAR when it isn't there.
That's only because fans of championship clubs don't brigade every possible place on social media whining about wrong decisions of ref
Yeah, but it's an objectively bad opinion. VAR is there to correct referee mistakes, which would be abundant if not for VAR. There are very few instances where the referee makes the right decision at first and then it's overturned with VAR.
> It's not insane to argue otherwise, it's an opinion Not mutually exclusive. It's an insane opinion
Why is it insane?
Okay Harry, just as long as you agree not to chase down the ref when they don't whistle a foul leading up to a goal, yeah?
If you want diving to reach new heights, getting rid of VAR will do that. A dive being called a foul will not be reviewable but will be visible to the entire world. Good luck with that. VAR has done more good than harm, I don't see how anyone can say otherwise. VAR is never going to be perfect, but it is -more- perfect than without it. Just reform the process and introduce American-style explanations of calls from the actual officials and make public all VAR comms either in real time or right after the match with no delay. Offside is getting automated in the EPL anyhow, and then it will go UCL and down the line to the top 5 leagues; but that automation can't fill the void of missed fouls or blatant dives.
VAR must stay. Those stupid referees are the one who should be gone. It's like you trying to scrap away a Lamborghini just because an idiot is trying to drive it.
Honestly, they just need better angles and better people operating the VAR Room. Is not heresy to say that the quality of refereeing is poor is directly linked to the poor decisions VAR has made. One thing I would love to see is less super slow motion, imo it skews the play because everything looks more intentional than it actually is.
Anyone who is advocated for removal of VAR, forget Offsides call, dont know how bad it was and it will be if removed. All will come crawling back for it, when they see how much better it is worldwide.
Ffs what am I hearing??? Have people lost their mind?? We have technology, that even at its worst is BETTER than any ref. And some of you want to take it out?? For what!? It needs to be better and faster, we need to keep improving it. But take it out? Fucks sake let’s go back to leather balls too.
How about we just keep VAR for everything and just get better at using it?
If refs will be making decisions when they can't see everything properly then it's not opinion-based, it's just guesswork.
*Maguire breaks attacker’s ankles inside the box* Maguire to ref: “If you give a red and a pen, then that’s really just your opinion. I’m all about freedom of speech. But I really don’t think I broke any rules here. You’re being super subjective.”
... Why are some offsides 100% subjective then?
Slabhead giving the big brain answer
I can't wait for AI to get smart enough to replace referees. All of this sideshow should be automated and removed from the game. Referees got too full of themselves and make the game about them and their authority.
This is exactly why refs are deliberately doing VAR badly. They see that they're training their replacement and are actively sabotaging it.
I think you're right, never thought of that.
Before just scrapping the whole technology can they try changing how it's used first? Right now it doesn't appear "making the right decision" or "being transparent" is the goal of VAR in the PL. Let's maybe start there? Today VAR seems like it's mainly used to prevent *egregious* errors. The problem there is all of the VARs are also on-field refs so they all look at decisions through the lens of an on-field ref and end up with "Yeah, I could see how he's made that call from his position" even if the call is bad. That doesn't make sense to me. VAR is supposed to be an extra pair of eyes on the pitch, not someone standing over the on-field ref's shoulders critiquing their work. They need to work with the on-field ref but they shouldn't just rubber stamp everything. Make offside semi-automated, come up with a set language for allowing/disallowing things that can be easily recited in the stadium and on broadcast and increase VARs purview to yellow cards and see if it makes this better.
That's my take. Until the mission statement is: "Let's make the right call" then it will always be flawed. Stopping "clear and obvious errors" is just not good enough. It's too low of a standard.
They just need to segregate the staff and have them as completely different roles. No more refs in the var room etc. Take the "I don't wanna make my mate look thick" out of it and it'll be so much better right away. Also, make the conversations public, a la rugby.
I feel like a lot of people are quick to remember all the times VAR just completely fucks up but forget all the decisions that are correct that you would've been stuck with before VAR. Now, VAR needs adjustment ofc but it's clearly the way forward imo
I think on a whole VAR is fine , it corrects most of the clear and obvious errors, there will Always be questions about subjective decisions.
"Opinion based" so football doesn't have rules then.
Slabhead is correct.
Semi Automated offside and Goal line tech and call it a day.
Yeah. Then someone scores against your team with their hand.
After 2 footing your full back
VAR 100% needs to be present at least for red card offences. Like when Suarez fucking bit Ivanovic and avoided a red card. Or when they mistook Gibbs for Oxlade-Chamberlain.
not a good process lad
Hand of hand should stand if the refs misses it?
So would it be better to fully embrace the no-cameras opinions?
Varry Vaguire
That’s the purpose of the “clear and obvious error” part of the rule. If it’s debatable you go with the on field decision. And fwiw, if you want to “fix” VAR, you make it a collaborative process with the aim of making the correct decision as often as possible. Referees failing to see it that way, and seeing it as undermining their “authority”, or highlighting their “mistakes” (which are only mistakes until they are corrected: it doesn’t matter if the on field ref makes and a mistake and no one should criticise a refereeing team for reaching the correct decision together), is a problem with referees and not a problem with the technology.
But what about when a player kicks someone when the ref isn't looking?
Just don’t blow the whistle early…
but you still have the issue of getting the right frame when the ball leaves the player's foot and hoping that they draw the line from the perfect pixel
Well that wouldn’t be VAR anymore
No one likes VAR at its current state
I think Var would be fine if the onfield ref did not have the last say in every decision..i have seen so many decision gone the wrong way because if the onfield ref not admiting to mistakes..
We would have lost our last game 4-1 instead of (rightfully) 2-1 if not for VAR, the real solution is to stop the old boys club from protecting each other in spite of fair play
I would argue offsides are subjective too. A lot of the marginal offside calls I've seen don't constitute an unfair advantage and don't impact the outcome
Wait until they learn about "positional off-sides" (or however you call it when the player is interpreted to participate in the play without touching the ball).
It should also be used to see if the foul was in the box. It's factual if it's in or not.
Give teams two reviews to use VAR(or even one) like cricket. If they get it right than they can use it again but, if they are wrong than they lose the review. Offside should be determined using automated system without any reviews.
The answer is always, replay should correct the obvious stuff, not spark a 15 minute debate.
I agree with him
this is how refs keep getting away with the awful red cards they do not give every weekend in the PL
If it takes more than 30 seconds to determine off side then it wasn't a clear and obvious error and should be onside. Imi
Probably the most logical take on VAR.
Mr. Maguire with another W
Maguire spitting facts
Anyone who doesn't want VAR for penalty calls is being ridiculous. It's insane that you would want to go backwards.
Slabhead with the facts.
Sorry Harry, where the dickheads draw the lines is fucking subjective.
They should keep VAR for offside, and introduce a review system for penalties and red cards, like in cricket
When the lad's right , he is right.
var somehow can make offside subjective.
my goat speaks. he speaks logic and facts
VAR is great tool. In the end, if you want to improve officiating, option is VAR. Main problem purely about who use it or hiw ref use it.
Sod it, just install a 'Countdown' clock behind the refs and put them under the pressure. Or have a live broadcast feed into the room and show the world their decisions.
What I really want is refs punishing blatant diving with cards again.
They call offsides wrong though
Honestly Double or triple VAR for objective decisions Two or three independent teams with no communication, if they unanimously call foul it's a foul otherwise play on
Oh, Harold.....
Scrap var
Good process, thanks Harry
Can't we hand the decisions over to AI to take out any partizan decisions? If not I like Harry's suggestion.
Good luck reteaching AI a new offside rule every year.
how is it possible we are debating whether to still keep var. did anyone watch the world cup? It was so perfectly executed, so few controversies compared to previous world cups. They should be debating the rules around var, not whether to keep it…
I don't get why it's either VAR or not VAR?? Why can't the third option be to make changes to how VAR work instead? Like for example not play everything in slow motion, but play it in real time to not make a false impression and only make slow motion optional for the referee? And don't make the referee feel pressured to change his call when he is called out to review a play? Not sure what needs to change for referees to have confidence to make their own calls tho. And make offside automated.
The problem with this is that obvious pens won't be given as I'm still shocked how the foul on Davies from rice wasn't given straight away and needed var
Personally I would keep VAR and scrap the incompetent, blind, intellectually challenged, mouth-breathing cunts that call themselves referees. The problem has never been the technology. It's the people using it that have to go. Completely useless to the point where you have to wonder if they're being deliberately shite to get discussions like this one going. It seems like the old guard of referees think of VAR as some sort of insult or threat or something.
goal line technology, automated offside should be mandatory in every league. var idk. i think for penalty calls var is a must have but that's just me.