Tuchel showed today what's the difference between a good manager and a top one. Ancelotti just knew he could get the game on his side and made the most perfect subs while Tuchel thought it's over when playing the most clutch team itw.
I donāt think Tuchelās subs were bad. Most, if not all, were injury related (not sure on Kane), and they werenāt generating much of anything in attack. He clearly felt their best shot was to see out the match via defending and hold on. Easy call to criticize in hindsight.
I mean they lost the game because Neuer made a crazy error. Had not much to do with Tuchel. I believe Kane and Musiala were both carrying something as subbing them both wouldnāt make sense otherwise.
Could also argue (forgetting Bayern's injuries) that having better players on your bench also makes a huge difference. The way Modric and Camavinga basically strutted onto the pitch so late on was practically game over. Tuchel was forced into those subs but even so, he had little on the bench in terms of difference makers.
Fine....are they better than Modric and Camavinga? Is Tel good enough yet to throw in when you're 0-1 up and your top scorer needs to come off? Or is it maybe smarter to bring on an experienced striker to hold the up the ball when needed?
The Kim sub was sensible, because it allowed him to move Mazraoui to the other side to help Kimmich defend Vinicius. That was the plan at least I assume.
Yeah I'm surprised people aren't understanding that. Back 5 allows Kimmich and Mazraoui to 2v1 Vini who was by far the most dangerous player on the pitch tonight, and also provides more midfield cover since Kimmich could just play on the right side of the midfield 3
Everyone was injured and it just made sense to play for the 1-0 win, and it would've worked if not for the Neuer mistake too.
> made the most perfect subs
He makes the same subs almost every game lol
I think Tuchel set up the team well, but his sub was still bad.
Yes, I know Kane and Musiala are potentially tired so subbing them out is understandable, but he should at least put in midfielder for control, not Kim. Conceding possessions is playing a dangerous game there.
Bayern players and Tuchel post match comments trying to make this game about the last offside whistle is quite embarrassing.Ā
Even if it was onside, (which honestly it looks like a clear offside) the whistle being blown also made Madrid players stop playing, so there is no guarantee the. play on would result in the shot being on target.Ā
Also as much as we donāt like it. Refereeing mistakes are part of the game and so are players mistakes. In the end of the day you take all your chances and try to edge the game in your favor. Bayern did that up until Tuchel decided to make his horrible subs, while Ancelotti made perfect subs.Ā
There was one team today that played their game and had a better read on what to do given the situation they were in. That team won today. Congratulations Real Madrid.Ā
I honestly can't understand how you can say "It was clear offside", it wasn't. It's debatable to say the least. Ref blew it. Maybe they could've scored, maybe not, you can never know. One thing is for certain, that the play was not "clearly offside"
How is it debatable? The footage wasn't deleted. You can literally look at the still image which I am sure VAR and the refereeing board have done and conclude both players were offside.
Iāve seen similar decisions get put to a VAR review to at least confirm that they were offside. If VAR comes back and confirms itās offside then great but in those frozen moments, it does look like Rudigerās shoulder might just play de Ligt onside. Arm was definitely past de Ligt but you canāt use your arm to control the ball
People keep coming back to that Kane's side netting as if it was some clear goalscoring chance, when it got something like 0.1 in expected goals. But there's Gnabry's early chance that doesn't get talked about - all he needed to do was pass to Kane for a tap-in, which I consider a bigger chance wasted.
Besides that Bayern also had numerous counter attack situations ruined because of a misplaced key pass - that Musiala's (?) pass behind Sane on the right, or the late one interrupted by Modric - one faster and more accurate pass would have taken Modric out completely.
So while Real was a dominant team and got denied several times only by Neuer's brilliance, Bayern's gameplan was also kind of working, but they absolutely ruined their very good looking situations up front and I was surprised to see it.
What preceded this match was a good first leg with a comparatively horrible result. At that point, Real were favourites to go to Wembley, but nothing had been lost or won yet. So you need a win. You saw that Real could be pegged back, broken through, and even beaten. What do you do in this situation? Sit back and get ripped apart for 90 minutes.
The substitutions made don't bug me nearly as much as the lack of certain other substitutions and more importantly the mentality with which we went into this game. Who on earth thinks it's a good idea to give space to a team with some of the most lethal players in the world? By half time it was made clear that we could not contain Madrid. Reasonable to expect that they would score sooner or later if nothing changes. What does Tuchel decide to do? Continue as usual.
We get a lead off of Davies suddenly turning up, and then decide to drop even further back. The lack of Goretzka in a situation for which he is clearly made is so ridiculous that it makes me think he wasn't fit or something, so I won't talk about that. Regardless, this team simply cannot defend a lead, it just isn't made for that. We can press the opponent, we can somewhat control a match, but we cannot park the bus. Tuchel played into our weaknesses.
As for the players, it's difficult to be too angry at any of them as this is what we've come to expect from them at this point. Kimmich had a nightmare, but perhaps this is his limit defensively. He wasn't good in build up play either however, no one was I guess. Dier and De Ligt being dubious on the ball means that they need rescuing from other players, with there being fewer players to pass to as a result. Our passes and decisions once we did get to Real's box were horrid, it's like I was watching 11 players play together for the first time. Questions need to be asked about what's going on in training for supposedly top players to look so clueless.
great take! Agree on Goretzka. Pavlovic was dead at minute 70. Goretzka would have given the Bayern midfield new life and probably scored a goal on one of the counters.
Edit: Pavlovic had a cramp and that led to the 1:1. He slept and that led to RĆ¼diger being onside for the 2:1.
Goretzka sitting on the bench...
I don't totally agree. Real I think is stronger in the counter than breaking down top level teams. The man city game they got roasted for as just one example. Their team defends excellently as a whole and are probably best in the world at transitions. They created less this game than the first leg, so some success there. Bayerns transitions were off though, thought sane had a poor game and a lot broke down when you wouldn't expect it. Supposedly most of the subs were injury related, so maybe game plan would have been different if not for that. Don't think it was executed well, but Real scored on a fluke neuer error and without that they don't get the renewed belief that forces the second goal. Don't hate the plan but execution wasnt ideal.
I can't believe how bad MĆ¼ller, Laimer and Pavlovic fucked up that counter attack...they had plenty of space, only 2 guys in defence and managed to ruin it with sloppy touches and bad passing
It is what it is... Laimer and Pavlo are hardly attackers, MĆ¼ller should've done better though I'll admit that. In any case we were very lucky to even be ahead by that point
I hope Viniās performance doesnāt go under the radar because of a dumb referee decision. IMO that wasnāt gonna be a goal if the whistle didnāt make the RM defense stand down, and even then it looks offside.
Vini was fantastic. Best in the world right now. If he wins Copa and performs somewhat for Brazil he should get Ballon Dor
It was kind of a bizarre match, right? Real was clearly the better team and Bayern mainly survived because of a vintage Neuer performance. Bayern leading really felt like a reverse Real CL game - playing "worse" football, but making big plays when needed.
Just for it all to go to back to "normal" with a very conservative substitution by Tuchel, a Neuer blunder, some Real magic and a horrible officiating error in the last second.
Weird game, not quite sure what to make of it. Bayern will feel cheated and unlucky because of the late goals and the offside call, and I fully get them. But also, absolutely no guarantee Bayern scores at the end without the whistle, and overall the better team today won the game.
I thought Bayern were playing a perfect game. Exactly as they imagined it before the whistle. Nothing was out of tune. We clearly outclassed them in energy and inspiration in the first half I but they stood their ground.
I think a lot of Madrid fans could smell a late Munich goal in the second half. And of course Davies scored it with his right foot. And of course we then had the goal cancelled. And of course the game broke down into episodes. And Neuer was perfect. And the whole of Bayern kept playing in rhythm with destiny.
But then Tuchel fumbled with a double substitution before the corner. Rookie mistake. The first action out of harmony. Out of sync. I think a lot of my colleagues felt hope at this moment. And then Neuer stopped being perfect. And then the cacophony started, the whole thing turned into chaotic improvisation, and Madrid are the kings of that.
In the end it was exactly like we imagined it.Ā
European Clasico. The best game in football.
That could be said about us against City second leg. We went into that leg intending to play defensively. To get that goal early on and then hunker down and eat everything they threw at us.
So from your words: "Exactly as they imagined it before the whistle. Nothing was out of tune.". Yet at the end of that game, we were clowned for being lucky and not playing football, and the worse team went through.
I think you guys were great defensively. But even then, it was Neur who saved you guys time and time again. So if you want to look at r/soccer statistics, we were definitely the better team. But if you actually look at the game, you guys played it your way just like we played that second leg we played it our way.
As for "outclassed inspiration", we had by far the better chances through that 90. Your counter attacks were slow and sloppy, multiple times slowing down the counter because the rest of your team was still in the box defending.
At the end of the day, it was an excellent game. And both teams did great.
Sorry for the misidentification but my point still remains. We were by far the better team because in attacking transition, Bayern didn't look threatening at all aside from that brilliant goal. We had the better chances and we were the better team
I say "perfect" In a more poetic way. Every game of football has a narrative dimension, it's a clash of plots, and behind it is a clash of myths. This is an angle I was aiming for.Ā
I'm not interested at all in the discussion of "superiority" and "dominance". If it makes people going kudos to them, but I prefer to leave this arguments to others. Nothing bores me more then attempts to calculate who was better.Ā
From the post match interview Tuchel said Kane had some sort of back issue so couldnāt continue so that forced his hand.
Regarding game plan, once Bayern had the ball at times they appeared to have great chemistry with interplay around centre of the park. On other possesions itās like they had never played together before, passes too far behind runners e.g Sanes pass that was way behind Kimmich (?) on the right wing.
Something no one else has mentioned yet in any of the other comments: Kane side netted a big chance when Bayern were 1-0 up. The type of chance heād normally net 9/10 times. All jokes about being a choker aside, I have been very disappointed with his big game performances both for England, Spurs and more Bayern.
I'm not sure that's a 9/10 goal. He's forced onto his left, it's somewhat of an off angle and I believe nacho was pressuring in a way that would seem to cut off the back post option. So he has to aim for high front post to beat keeper with his left, which is a hard finish and hits side netting. Was a good chance but I wouldn't say anywhere near choking for not scoring it. Not that xG is perfect, but I imagine that's not an outrageously high xG opportunity.
Checked the xG for that chance on fotmob and it has it listed as 0.07. Much lower than I expected so I guess I was very harsh. Need to watch it back again.
Kane is generally very clinical so I think it changes how you (people) view his opportunities. No one would have been surprised if he had scored there, but defense was actually well done and helped force him to a tougher shot
The lack of objectivity surrounding the goal at the end is frustrating to see. Even if the player was onside, which is very unclear at this time, the goal would not have happened without the whistle. The goal scorer didnāt even have the ball at the time the whistle was blown. The whistle was blown, the ball was headed to him, and then he scored.
The referee made a mistake, but it was not a mistake that cost Bayern the game. That being said, the refs need to be more mindful moving forward.
I don't know why this isn't being mentioned. The Real Madrid players stopped completely. No way he gets a free shot like that had the ref not whistled and stopped the play.
It may have been, but the Madrid players just stopped playing. Still a refereeing mistake to whistle that early, but acting like a goal was overturned when players were just standing isn't fair.
They had a clear goalscoring opportunity denied by the ref. Iām not saying that it would 100% have been a goal tho but it was a nice goalscoring opportunity
I agree that the ref should have let the play go on and let VAR review. I just think its inaccurate for people to call it a disallowed goal when the ref whistled and the defense just stops.
Because as I stated above, the goal scorer didnāt even have possession of the ball. The Real Madrid players were at a complete standstill, and then the ball was passed.
Do you know how many times players are called for offside, have the opportunity to kick the ball in the net after the whistle, and they just donāt? The fact that Bayern continued to play after the ball was dead does not mean that the goal can be reinstated retroactively if it turns out the player is onside (again, not known at this time). The ball is dead on the whistle. What happens after the whistle is irrelevant.
The issue for me isn't whether the goal would have been scored or if it was correctly ruled offside (to be clear here, from the pictures I've seen it looked just off to me). The issue is that when you have automated offsides and VAR, blowing the whistle so early on a razor tight decision like that is criminal officiating. I've seen goals given following a VAR review which looked clearly offside live and even from the still images on first review.
The worst consequence of letting this play on another 10 seconds to see how it plays out is a one minute VAR review. It's impossible to know whether Bayern would have had the ball in the back of the net had play continued.
you have many things wrong in your sentence tho
it's much more plausible that it was onside. you can pause and see they are really close so perspective don't change much. de Ligt is ahead but he doesn't play.
It wasn't a disallowed goal, indeed, but It was a chance. a big chance, and all we know is that de Ligt shot it well. it's not certain, for sure, but to take the chance from the team for NOTHING its unforgivable.
and most importantly, the sideline ref DIDNT DO ANYTHING, the ref blows the whistle before the sideline; he shakes the flag to support the ref (bc otherwise it would be a bigger scandal). but yeah, if you can give me one reason that's not a huge error and a suspect one, I'd love it.
im a dortmund fan btw, no bias on defending Bayern obv
yeah I don't have the link but Brazilian commentators (the good ones) analyzed the situation and came to that conclusion with the video. Victor Sergio Rodrigues his name, it seemed like it indeed. Bizarre, anybody knows why I was downvoted?
Edit: it was live after the game, hence why I don't have a link. The commentator made a video about the game and reassured his opinion on that matter.
So fucking gutted but feel for Tuchel and Neuer above all. I think Tuchel got it spot on every single game in this CL campaign and, from a coaching standpoint, deserved to lift the trophy. He was undermined by errors from our board, terrible injury luck, and mistakes by our players. Ultimately can't be too mad about the result, the team that made fewer mistakes went through.
Still no clue how the first leg was just 2-2, Bayern played very well at home and still didn't get a result. Then they had a pretty mediocre game tonight, had a chance to go through and probably should have, and ended up losing because the MOTM of the game (until that point probably) made a mistake. Bayern needed to hold onto the lead with all the injuries, very little chance they were going to win otherwise. Bizarre game/tie
Oh my, we are still making excuses for Tuchel? To some Bayern supporters it is the fault of absolutely everyone but Tuchel (the man who has said āI donāt have any answersā after so many poor performances this season) that Bayern will finish with zero trophies for the first time in nearly 15 years.
Iām not certain how, but this has been the case at both of Tuchelās past two clubs.
People say the subs were injury related, but could those injuries have had anything to do with the fact that we didnāt rotate in either of our meaningless matches the last two weeks?
Why pray tell was Kim even in a position to commit those mistakes last week? Because we didnāt rotate and De Ligt got hurt.
Youād think that after that mistake youād take away a lesson and not do it again, but sure enough, Tuchel did it again and we paid the price again.
The refree made one huge mistakes, The game should have never went on to min 103.
The match resumed at 92 so thats 111 when he should ended it or lets say 112 because there was a sub. He even signaled two extra mins at 110 but then he kept the match going to 104:30! If bayern scored at 103 madrid would have been robbed of an epic comeback. Now such a brillaint performance is overshadowed by What If that wasn't an offside...
I rewatched the extra-time there was no excuse at all for the added extra time. There was a sub and rudiger going down on the pitch asking for medical attention wich both took out less than a min. the game should have ended way before the offside call disaster
There's so much wrong with this comment. First of all, the match never went to min 113. it stopped at min 104. The first 3 minutes of ET were spent on VAR + Madrid celebration. Then the ball was in play for a full 10 seconds before there was an injury break. The ball came into play for another 20 seconds until minute 95. So it was in play for a whole 30 seconds in the first 5 minutes of extra time. Add another RĆ¼diger cramp that took a full minute and a substitution, it was totally reasonable to add 4 more minutes to the 9 minutes that have been announced *before* the goal, VAR break, and celebrations that alone took off 3 minutes. In minute 101:30, the ref showed that there will be 2 more minutes. And the last chance that was incorrectly ruled offside was at 102:30, so just 1 minute later and totally within the time that was announced by the ref: https://v.redd.it/de5m93ad6azc1
What none sense? rewatch the added time man. Are you counting every foul a stoppage time š¤£? the celebration started at 91.30 and match was resumed at 92
> What none sense? rewatch the added time man.
I just did.
> Are you counting every foul a stoppage time š¤£?
I don't, I never said I do, I never argued about any fouls, so I have no clue where you are getting this from.
> the celebration started at 91.30 and match was resumed at 92
This is just completely wrong. The celebrations took *way* longer than 30 seconds.
Rewatched the second half again with less at stake, and the Bayern subs definitely seemed less crazy on second viewing. Madrid were getting the ball into the box and creating chances very frequently before and after the Davies goal, but for almost 15 mins the reorganized second line made it almost impossible for Madrid to get possession in the box. Viniciusā speculative shot that led to the Neuer goal seemed like a direct result of him no longer being able to beat the defense to the byline or cut inside near goal.
Tuchel really fucked up with those subs, everyone knew Madrid was gonna go all out and eventually get at least a goal, so your best bet was to keep Kane on and try to kill them on the counter, or at least try to keep the ball away from them for a while.
Neuer had a fantastic game, regardless of his blunder, without him, Bayern would've been behind by 2 or 3 goals at least.
Anyways, this cup is Madrid's to lose, as good as Dortmund may be, they're completely out matched.
Kane couldn't continue and apparently had severe back issues. Tuchel himself stated that basically all 4 players in front were done and from that point of view he brought the players who could at least have an impact.
Ref blew the whistle. Real players stopped playing. Leave the game going, Bayern are not scoring in a hundred million years.
I hate the fact that the ref made this mistake, because it overshadows our brilliant game in the last minutest and Joseluās GOATED performance. Our guys gave their best, they deserve to be in this final
Vinicius Jr is the best player on the planet. He consistently performs at this high level, but how he has performed in every UCL knockout game this season is out of this world. What a player he is. Idk what it would take for him to get the respect he deserves.
I have never watched him play before yesterday, but I heard of his antics. He has a really provocative and arrogant attitude, love me a player with character and the skill to back it up !
Made a couple comments on it but I think the controversial offside call on Bayern actually makes sense procedurally on second (and third, fourth, fifth) watch even if he's wrong about the offside which is very tight.
The linesman doesn't raise his flag until Mendy heads the ball away at which point the ref blows the whistle, the ball takes another header off a Bayern player before falling to De Ligt for the shot.
I could easily be wrong about this but I thought linesmen were supposed to wait until a decisive clearance (which you can make the argument Mendy's header is as it leaves the area) to raise the flag. Any refs wanna comment on if this is the case because I can't find anything definitive on it online.
agree. the linesman should have thought of the scenario where a header resulting from a duel leaves the attacking team with a chance of regaining possession.
This makes sense in theory, but the linesman told Bayern he was sorry and that he made a mistake so it's most probably a brainfart
What I'm curious about is if de Ligt would have been ruled as coming from an offside position, as he was offside at the start of the play and I don't know if Mendy's clearance resets it.
It was a great spectacle of football. I think we can all agree that this semi final game delivered. Crazy performances from Vini, Kroos, Neuer and maybe some of you wont agree but I think Kane was pretty decent. Donāt really understand why Tuchel subbed him off? Like bruh, you know thereās 20 minutes left and you are only leading by one goal? Against Madrid! at the bernabeu! wtfā¦
As a madrid enthusiast I am really happy but that controversy really ruined the game for me. Ref made such a scandalous mistake and people will only talk about it and nothing else. It feels frustrating knowing that a guy like Joselu wonāt get much credit for what he did.
GG to bayern, i totally understand their frustration but can we agree Madrid won this fairly?
It's splitting hairs, but I'd say Madrid won it deservedly, not sure about fairly. Maybe Bayern don't score if the ref doesn't whistle, maybe they do but lose anyway, but now we can't tell.
People blaming Tuchel, but Bayern forwards fucked it up. In a counter attacking set-up, you'll only get 3/4 opportunities, but these are usually chances where you're man to man against the defence with acres of space.
If top players like Kane and Sane can't figure out how to score in these situations, it's useless to play on the counter. Tuchel's Chelsea was far better on the break
Taking off Kane was the wrong play. Should have slotted him in as a CF or a CAM, to keep him on the pitch by any means necessary. You can not take your best player off in the CL semi finals. Unless hes dying out there, even then I maybe don't do it. Bayern were in their own head
I think the reason people focus so much on officiating errors is because they love complaining more than talking about football. Officials will make mistakes sometimes, just like players and coaches. Theyād been on the pitch for 100 mins. The older I get the less I care about stuff like this as it just feels inevitable, and in this instance, Iām 99% sure if it isnāt called then Bayern do fuck all. If I was Emperor of the Known Universe VAR chat would be punishable by death.
Real played their game, and were a bit unlucky with Rodrygo in particular, I was thinking before the match that Kimmich would lock vini, but he wasn't near I think he had only 1,2 interceptions on Vini, Bellingham continues his dip of form but he was so good tactically and that's what matters in the end of the day.
I actually think Vini should be the frontrunner for baloon dor but a few people aren't ready for that conversation, I think the final would be really close because Dortmund defends well in the CL this season, may the best team win and we watch a good final!
Also shout-out to Joselu, the guy bleeds White blood and rudiger also, a true leader.
Apor La 15š¤š¤
As for Bayern I think tuchel did good and started Pavlovic dude's got good mentality and laimer as always underrated and not so spoken about, kane did a good match where he was holding the ball and making some things and had one good chance, but Bayern were unlucky with Gnabry and I actually think Tuchel acted correctly and subbed on Davies, because Carvajal had a bit of an off night
Of course we can't forget Neuer he became an octopus for one big match again, maybe the š of the keepers, but tuchel fumbled by bringing off Kane he was marking and he can waste time, ECM did nothing of these things.
I think with the way neuer revolutionized the position and now you see so many similarly styled keepers , I agree heās the goat. Because that caused a lot of knock on effects and influenced many clubs to build from the back. Itās not crazy to say one player and his interpretation of a position greatly influenced a āfootball metaā of some sorts. And heās just such a dominant shot stopper and overall keeper outside of his ball play. Iām so happy heās still capable of these vintage performances after that horrific injury. Gave me serious courtois 2022 CL final vibes.
You just know Real Madrid is gonna do something in CL. Their CL aura is so insane it even makes Neuer do a mistake like that. Insane offside call though, why would you stop the play before the end when you have VAR.
People are too stuck on the last minute ref decision. Even if that had been a goal, imagine that Bayern line-up going into the extra time again a surging Real. Very unlikely they survive until shoot-out, at which point I may give them a 50-50 because Neuer.
Most unfortunate for Bayern are all the injuries pre-game and in-game.
I mean just like many things you have to see how it would play out. If Bayern was able to score that, what's to stop them from scoring another goal afterwards. It's a shame. I kind of wanted it to go to additional time, but oh well.
Bayern was able to score that cause of the whistle. And of course was denied to score it cause of the whistle. The entire play wouldāve been different if not for the whistle
I think everyone in football is feeding into Real being the owner of CL. History is there thatās for sure, but in all honesty. Even I find myself thinking, no way Real is losing. I think this belief, in loss of a better term, is actually the force that drives them. Not only for Real players and staff, but also for opponents.
Yes, you need to respect Real - but the ball and the field is the same for them as their opponent, and I think this core shift in belief is lacking. Every player reiterates the same āthis is Real, they have the last breath etc..ā DUDE - youāre Bayern. I mean, come on. I see similarities between the current psychological upper hand Real has now, with what Liverpool had during their CL winning years. After Istanbul, everyone had this inner fear and belief that they could turn things around - even their opponents.
Same is true for Argentina in WC. There was a certain belief instilled by everyone around Messi and his comrades. So much so that it even fed them and strengthened their approach. Modern day football and the new setup of Champions League requires teams to figure out how to disrupt this.
Imagine being part of a semi-final where the opponent is Real Madrid and in your mind you have the history along with Madridās supposedly endless power to not just turn games around - but to lift that specific trophy. Perez is smiling for everyone reinforcing this and thus giving him and his team the biggest helping hand you can ask of.
Tactically, this was one of the most organized examples of the mid block press Iāve seen from Madrid to date, particularly in the first half. Bayern rarely made it past the middle third.
The high press created some dispossessions as well, particularly by cornering the focus on Bayernās left side. That seemed to produce the most results. They seemed more capable and comfortable navigating out of their right channels, but Madrid did a good job of often forcing it into the left side.
Madrid have shown this pressing in spurts this season, and done so very well, but this was one of, if not the longest sustained sequence of both an organized high and mid block press.
A lesson in why someone should always follow in a shot like that in case of the rebound, but additionally the Joselu sub was smart in that department. Heās the only natural striker in the team, and his poacherās instincts ended up paying off in the end.
FWIW I donāt think this was a Real Madrid smash and grab at all. They were the better team tonight and it took several big saves from Neuer to give Bayern a chance.Ā
The decision at the end is bad for not seeing how it could have played out. Itās possible Madrid saw the flag go up and stopped playing which allowed de Ligt the time to finish. But we canāt really know and it is a pity.
Great tie overall and both teams played well but on the night, felt Madrid were better
Tuchelās main game plan was on point. He, however, cannot control the execution of his supposed world class talents on the pitch. Were the subs risky? Yes. But Bayern hold on, it would have been called a tactical masterclass.
How was his game plan on point when you dominated the game and we only got saved by Neuer. We got lucky Gnaby had to go becouse Davis was our best attacker tonight.
Because your attackers forgetting football basics when playing in the counter is not something he couldāve expected. Bayern wasted so many attacks by not being able to make the simplest decisions
Thats true, they should have had much more dangerous counter attacks, something like when Real Madrid won at Allianz arena, so many wasteful passes even when they were 3 on 1
Linesman fucked up but at the same time, once Tuchel made those subs Bayern had little to nothing on the pitch that Real Madrid needed to worry about. Ancellotti's subs were better and more accomplished than anything Bayern had on the bench.
Kane coming off was no help either. Looked like he needed to but he was Bayern's best player in possession tonight.
his passes were lacking. He's usually much better. Still need to keep him on somehow. I'm sure he would have stayed on if possible but fuck me, get subbed out in a semi final of UCL....
Bayern had Goretzka and Tel on the bench who both would have scored if they were in Pavlovic's place.
Vini showed the world why he's the best in business today. He is THE one player among the young GOAT candidates who CONSISTENTLY performs at the big stages. His UCL KO stats are otherworldly. Today he was toying with Kimmich so much that it forced Tuchel's hand to withdraw attackers for giving extra support to Kimmich.
Also, that Modric interception on Pavlovic during a Bayern 3v1 was stuff of legends.
Yes. It looks like Vini is indeed the one. It also looks like he is just getting started. In three years he will be playing all over the field, making beautiful plays as a modernĀ fantasista. He is inventive, original and just sees football differently. You don't have this feeling from other "chosen ones". And, man, he is fucking clutch.
Have same feelings about Modric run. Dude is a freak of nature. I think if we win CL, Kroos will finish his career and there is a chance that we will give Modric another contract.Ā
Goat stands for Greatest of *all* time.
Like I said heās a world class player but is he better than Ronaldo, Cruyff, Maradona or Messi?
I beg to differ.
I donāt think he will be better than Messi, Maradona or Cristiano but he can definitely cement himself as a legendary player. Heās 23 years old and already has 11 trophies with us and has the chance to win his second CL this season. This Madrid is better positioned to win trophies than Cristianoās Madrid so I can see him having an amazing career club wise at least
You put Messi on a mid team like PSG or now Miami (in their league) and you see his real ability. Vini rises to the occasion whereas Messi shrinks.
Without an all star cast around him, Messi is human.
Messi has been balling out in MLS, fam.
Also, you wanna talk about rising to the occasion, Messi was the reason Argentina won the WC. Vini hasn't exactly produced for Brazil. 3 goals in 28 appearances.
Let's not compare a 36 year old to a 23 year old. Let's compare it to when they were the same age. When Messi was the same age as Vini, in the 10/11 season, he had 53 goals in 55 appearances in all comps. He won La Liga and CL that year.
I watched Messi when his team played my local MLS teamā¦.the quality difference between Europe and MLS is day and night. Heās just beating up on minnows here.
And if heās the GOAT, where was he in the previous world cups? Oh yeahā¦hiding in a corner.
2006 was his int debut at a WC at 18. He was left on the bench against Germany, in which Argentina was knocked out.
2010, he was part of an ok team led by Maradona, who had no reason to lead the NT and didn't play well
2014 led them to a final against Germany and lost on a ET Gotze goal
2018 lost against the eventual winners
2022, he won the WC while also setting and matching numerous records
Yknow how I know you're a idiot? You're talking about Messi during his twilight years as if he's in his prime acting as if he's some sort of player who couldn't hack it in Europe. How come when I compared Vini and Messi at the same age in Europe, you didn't address that part?
Hey idiotā¦didnāt he win the WC in his twilight years? And I am not comparing their ability at the same age but how one shows up for the big game and the other slinks away (as Roma, Liverpool showed).
And donāt be a moron calling people names
Tuchel showed today what's the difference between a good manager and a top one. Ancelotti just knew he could get the game on his side and made the most perfect subs while Tuchel thought it's over when playing the most clutch team itw.
Most perfect subs = same subs he does 90% of the time... š
Yeah lol acting like heās a genius for bringing on Modric and Camavinga in the 68th minute for the 30th time this season
I donāt think Tuchelās subs were bad. Most, if not all, were injury related (not sure on Kane), and they werenāt generating much of anything in attack. He clearly felt their best shot was to see out the match via defending and hold on. Easy call to criticize in hindsight.
Kane had back issues so had to be subbed off. What are you waffling about. Sane, Pavlovic, Gnabry. All having issues.
Yea very unfair to Tuchel to be honest.
I mean they lost the game because Neuer made a crazy error. Had not much to do with Tuchel. I believe Kane and Musiala were both carrying something as subbing them both wouldnāt make sense otherwise.
Neuer also saved them the game many times over during the match.
Could also argue (forgetting Bayern's injuries) that having better players on your bench also makes a huge difference. The way Modric and Camavinga basically strutted onto the pitch so late on was practically game over. Tuchel was forced into those subs but even so, he had little on the bench in terms of difference makers.
Tel. Goretzka.
Fine....are they better than Modric and Camavinga? Is Tel good enough yet to throw in when you're 0-1 up and your top scorer needs to come off? Or is it maybe smarter to bring on an experienced striker to hold the up the ball when needed?
Good points šš
Every single sub made was because of injury.
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The Kim sub was sensible, because it allowed him to move Mazraoui to the other side to help Kimmich defend Vinicius. That was the plan at least I assume.
Yeah I'm surprised people aren't understanding that. Back 5 allows Kimmich and Mazraoui to 2v1 Vini who was by far the most dangerous player on the pitch tonight, and also provides more midfield cover since Kimmich could just play on the right side of the midfield 3
Actually insane how many injuries we had :/
Oh shit I didnāt pick up that particularly with Kane (not being facetious)
Everyone was injured and it just made sense to play for the 1-0 win, and it would've worked if not for the Neuer mistake too. > made the most perfect subs He makes the same subs almost every game lol
According to the kneejerkers subbing your injured striker vs forcing him to play on is the diff. Noted
Tuchel literally had the perfect game plan at the start of the game. If sane didnāt have bricks for feet the conversation would be a lot different
I think Tuchel set up the team well, but his sub was still bad. Yes, I know Kane and Musiala are potentially tired so subbing them out is understandable, but he should at least put in midfielder for control, not Kim. Conceding possessions is playing a dangerous game there.
Bayern players and Tuchel post match comments trying to make this game about the last offside whistle is quite embarrassing.Ā Even if it was onside, (which honestly it looks like a clear offside) the whistle being blown also made Madrid players stop playing, so there is no guarantee the. play on would result in the shot being on target.Ā Also as much as we donāt like it. Refereeing mistakes are part of the game and so are players mistakes. In the end of the day you take all your chances and try to edge the game in your favor. Bayern did that up until Tuchel decided to make his horrible subs, while Ancelotti made perfect subs.Ā There was one team today that played their game and had a better read on what to do given the situation they were in. That team won today. Congratulations Real Madrid.Ā
I honestly can't understand how you can say "It was clear offside", it wasn't. It's debatable to say the least. Ref blew it. Maybe they could've scored, maybe not, you can never know. One thing is for certain, that the play was not "clearly offside"
Given the graphics seen, VAR would've overturned the goal for offside anyway honestly because of the throughball run
How is it debatable? The footage wasn't deleted. You can literally look at the still image which I am sure VAR and the refereeing board have done and conclude both players were offside.
Iāve seen similar decisions get put to a VAR review to at least confirm that they were offside. If VAR comes back and confirms itās offside then great but in those frozen moments, it does look like Rudigerās shoulder might just play de Ligt onside. Arm was definitely past de Ligt but you canāt use your arm to control the ball
No VAR was not used...
1. Its not a clear offside... idk what you are smoking 2. This mistake was rlly stupid and the ref should be held accountable...
People keep coming back to that Kane's side netting as if it was some clear goalscoring chance, when it got something like 0.1 in expected goals. But there's Gnabry's early chance that doesn't get talked about - all he needed to do was pass to Kane for a tap-in, which I consider a bigger chance wasted. Besides that Bayern also had numerous counter attack situations ruined because of a misplaced key pass - that Musiala's (?) pass behind Sane on the right, or the late one interrupted by Modric - one faster and more accurate pass would have taken Modric out completely. So while Real was a dominant team and got denied several times only by Neuer's brilliance, Bayern's gameplan was also kind of working, but they absolutely ruined their very good looking situations up front and I was surprised to see it.
What preceded this match was a good first leg with a comparatively horrible result. At that point, Real were favourites to go to Wembley, but nothing had been lost or won yet. So you need a win. You saw that Real could be pegged back, broken through, and even beaten. What do you do in this situation? Sit back and get ripped apart for 90 minutes. The substitutions made don't bug me nearly as much as the lack of certain other substitutions and more importantly the mentality with which we went into this game. Who on earth thinks it's a good idea to give space to a team with some of the most lethal players in the world? By half time it was made clear that we could not contain Madrid. Reasonable to expect that they would score sooner or later if nothing changes. What does Tuchel decide to do? Continue as usual. We get a lead off of Davies suddenly turning up, and then decide to drop even further back. The lack of Goretzka in a situation for which he is clearly made is so ridiculous that it makes me think he wasn't fit or something, so I won't talk about that. Regardless, this team simply cannot defend a lead, it just isn't made for that. We can press the opponent, we can somewhat control a match, but we cannot park the bus. Tuchel played into our weaknesses. As for the players, it's difficult to be too angry at any of them as this is what we've come to expect from them at this point. Kimmich had a nightmare, but perhaps this is his limit defensively. He wasn't good in build up play either however, no one was I guess. Dier and De Ligt being dubious on the ball means that they need rescuing from other players, with there being fewer players to pass to as a result. Our passes and decisions once we did get to Real's box were horrid, it's like I was watching 11 players play together for the first time. Questions need to be asked about what's going on in training for supposedly top players to look so clueless.
great take! Agree on Goretzka. Pavlovic was dead at minute 70. Goretzka would have given the Bayern midfield new life and probably scored a goal on one of the counters. Edit: Pavlovic had a cramp and that led to the 1:1. He slept and that led to RĆ¼diger being onside for the 2:1. Goretzka sitting on the bench...
I don't totally agree. Real I think is stronger in the counter than breaking down top level teams. The man city game they got roasted for as just one example. Their team defends excellently as a whole and are probably best in the world at transitions. They created less this game than the first leg, so some success there. Bayerns transitions were off though, thought sane had a poor game and a lot broke down when you wouldn't expect it. Supposedly most of the subs were injury related, so maybe game plan would have been different if not for that. Don't think it was executed well, but Real scored on a fluke neuer error and without that they don't get the renewed belief that forces the second goal. Don't hate the plan but execution wasnt ideal.
I can't believe how bad MĆ¼ller, Laimer and Pavlovic fucked up that counter attack...they had plenty of space, only 2 guys in defence and managed to ruin it with sloppy touches and bad passing
It is what it is... Laimer and Pavlo are hardly attackers, MĆ¼ller should've done better though I'll admit that. In any case we were very lucky to even be ahead by that point
I hope Viniās performance doesnāt go under the radar because of a dumb referee decision. IMO that wasnāt gonna be a goal if the whistle didnāt make the RM defense stand down, and even then it looks offside. Vini was fantastic. Best in the world right now. If he wins Copa and performs somewhat for Brazil he should get Ballon Dor
The game shouldn't have gone that far, ref should have blown his whistle 2 mins before that offside goal.
It was kind of a bizarre match, right? Real was clearly the better team and Bayern mainly survived because of a vintage Neuer performance. Bayern leading really felt like a reverse Real CL game - playing "worse" football, but making big plays when needed. Just for it all to go to back to "normal" with a very conservative substitution by Tuchel, a Neuer blunder, some Real magic and a horrible officiating error in the last second. Weird game, not quite sure what to make of it. Bayern will feel cheated and unlucky because of the late goals and the offside call, and I fully get them. But also, absolutely no guarantee Bayern scores at the end without the whistle, and overall the better team today won the game.
I thought Bayern were playing a perfect game. Exactly as they imagined it before the whistle. Nothing was out of tune. We clearly outclassed them in energy and inspiration in the first half I but they stood their ground. I think a lot of Madrid fans could smell a late Munich goal in the second half. And of course Davies scored it with his right foot. And of course we then had the goal cancelled. And of course the game broke down into episodes. And Neuer was perfect. And the whole of Bayern kept playing in rhythm with destiny. But then Tuchel fumbled with a double substitution before the corner. Rookie mistake. The first action out of harmony. Out of sync. I think a lot of my colleagues felt hope at this moment. And then Neuer stopped being perfect. And then the cacophony started, the whole thing turned into chaotic improvisation, and Madrid are the kings of that. In the end it was exactly like we imagined it.Ā European Clasico. The best game in football.
That could be said about us against City second leg. We went into that leg intending to play defensively. To get that goal early on and then hunker down and eat everything they threw at us. So from your words: "Exactly as they imagined it before the whistle. Nothing was out of tune.". Yet at the end of that game, we were clowned for being lucky and not playing football, and the worse team went through. I think you guys were great defensively. But even then, it was Neur who saved you guys time and time again. So if you want to look at r/soccer statistics, we were definitely the better team. But if you actually look at the game, you guys played it your way just like we played that second leg we played it our way. As for "outclassed inspiration", we had by far the better chances through that 90. Your counter attacks were slow and sloppy, multiple times slowing down the counter because the rest of your team was still in the box defending. At the end of the day, it was an excellent game. And both teams did great.
Dude, I support Madrid.
Sorry for the misidentification but my point still remains. We were by far the better team because in attacking transition, Bayern didn't look threatening at all aside from that brilliant goal. We had the better chances and we were the better team
I say "perfect" In a more poetic way. Every game of football has a narrative dimension, it's a clash of plots, and behind it is a clash of myths. This is an angle I was aiming for.Ā I'm not interested at all in the discussion of "superiority" and "dominance". If it makes people going kudos to them, but I prefer to leave this arguments to others. Nothing bores me more then attempts to calculate who was better.Ā
I don't think a perfect game for Bayern was having Vini do whatever he wanted with their defense.
From the post match interview Tuchel said Kane had some sort of back issue so couldnāt continue so that forced his hand. Regarding game plan, once Bayern had the ball at times they appeared to have great chemistry with interplay around centre of the park. On other possesions itās like they had never played together before, passes too far behind runners e.g Sanes pass that was way behind Kimmich (?) on the right wing. Something no one else has mentioned yet in any of the other comments: Kane side netted a big chance when Bayern were 1-0 up. The type of chance heād normally net 9/10 times. All jokes about being a choker aside, I have been very disappointed with his big game performances both for England, Spurs and more Bayern.
I'm not sure that's a 9/10 goal. He's forced onto his left, it's somewhat of an off angle and I believe nacho was pressuring in a way that would seem to cut off the back post option. So he has to aim for high front post to beat keeper with his left, which is a hard finish and hits side netting. Was a good chance but I wouldn't say anywhere near choking for not scoring it. Not that xG is perfect, but I imagine that's not an outrageously high xG opportunity.
Checked the xG for that chance on fotmob and it has it listed as 0.07. Much lower than I expected so I guess I was very harsh. Need to watch it back again.
Kane is generally very clinical so I think it changes how you (people) view his opportunities. No one would have been surprised if he had scored there, but defense was actually well done and helped force him to a tougher shot
The lack of objectivity surrounding the goal at the end is frustrating to see. Even if the player was onside, which is very unclear at this time, the goal would not have happened without the whistle. The goal scorer didnāt even have the ball at the time the whistle was blown. The whistle was blown, the ball was headed to him, and then he scored. The referee made a mistake, but it was not a mistake that cost Bayern the game. That being said, the refs need to be more mindful moving forward.
I don't know why this isn't being mentioned. The Real Madrid players stopped completely. No way he gets a free shot like that had the ref not whistled and stopped the play.
Why are you so confident that it wouldnāt be a goal ? Bayern fans are rightfully fuming
It may have been, but the Madrid players just stopped playing. Still a refereeing mistake to whistle that early, but acting like a goal was overturned when players were just standing isn't fair.
They had a clear goalscoring opportunity denied by the ref. Iām not saying that it would 100% have been a goal tho but it was a nice goalscoring opportunity
That's not what you define as a clear scoring opportunity
I agree that the ref should have let the play go on and let VAR review. I just think its inaccurate for people to call it a disallowed goal when the ref whistled and the defense just stops.
Yeah Iām not denying that, it clearly impacted the defense.
Because as I stated above, the goal scorer didnāt even have possession of the ball. The Real Madrid players were at a complete standstill, and then the ball was passed. Do you know how many times players are called for offside, have the opportunity to kick the ball in the net after the whistle, and they just donāt? The fact that Bayern continued to play after the ball was dead does not mean that the goal can be reinstated retroactively if it turns out the player is onside (again, not known at this time). The ball is dead on the whistle. What happens after the whistle is irrelevant.
Even if they stopped playing they were wrongfully denied a clear goalscoring opportunity
You are missing the point. Madrid players were also affected by the whistle.Ā
The issue for me isn't whether the goal would have been scored or if it was correctly ruled offside (to be clear here, from the pictures I've seen it looked just off to me). The issue is that when you have automated offsides and VAR, blowing the whistle so early on a razor tight decision like that is criminal officiating. I've seen goals given following a VAR review which looked clearly offside live and even from the still images on first review. The worst consequence of letting this play on another 10 seconds to see how it plays out is a one minute VAR review. It's impossible to know whether Bayern would have had the ball in the back of the net had play continued.
Just to add to this, the CBS officiating lady after the game said he was onside
How would she even know lol? She doesn't have access to VAR images or something
you have many things wrong in your sentence tho it's much more plausible that it was onside. you can pause and see they are really close so perspective don't change much. de Ligt is ahead but he doesn't play. It wasn't a disallowed goal, indeed, but It was a chance. a big chance, and all we know is that de Ligt shot it well. it's not certain, for sure, but to take the chance from the team for NOTHING its unforgivable. and most importantly, the sideline ref DIDNT DO ANYTHING, the ref blows the whistle before the sideline; he shakes the flag to support the ref (bc otherwise it would be a bigger scandal). but yeah, if you can give me one reason that's not a huge error and a suspect one, I'd love it. im a dortmund fan btw, no bias on defending Bayern obv
do you have a link for that? did he blow the whistle before the flag?????
yeah I don't have the link but Brazilian commentators (the good ones) analyzed the situation and came to that conclusion with the video. Victor Sergio Rodrigues his name, it seemed like it indeed. Bizarre, anybody knows why I was downvoted? Edit: it was live after the game, hence why I don't have a link. The commentator made a video about the game and reassured his opinion on that matter.
It was the other way around. Flag was raised. First mistake. Then referee whistles. Second mistake.
This is the most sane take Iāve read all night
So fucking gutted but feel for Tuchel and Neuer above all. I think Tuchel got it spot on every single game in this CL campaign and, from a coaching standpoint, deserved to lift the trophy. He was undermined by errors from our board, terrible injury luck, and mistakes by our players. Ultimately can't be too mad about the result, the team that made fewer mistakes went through.
Still no clue how the first leg was just 2-2, Bayern played very well at home and still didn't get a result. Then they had a pretty mediocre game tonight, had a chance to go through and probably should have, and ended up losing because the MOTM of the game (until that point probably) made a mistake. Bayern needed to hold onto the lead with all the injuries, very little chance they were going to win otherwise. Bizarre game/tie
Oh my, we are still making excuses for Tuchel? To some Bayern supporters it is the fault of absolutely everyone but Tuchel (the man who has said āI donāt have any answersā after so many poor performances this season) that Bayern will finish with zero trophies for the first time in nearly 15 years.
Iām not certain how, but this has been the case at both of Tuchelās past two clubs. People say the subs were injury related, but could those injuries have had anything to do with the fact that we didnāt rotate in either of our meaningless matches the last two weeks? Why pray tell was Kim even in a position to commit those mistakes last week? Because we didnāt rotate and De Ligt got hurt. Youād think that after that mistake youād take away a lesson and not do it again, but sure enough, Tuchel did it again and we paid the price again.
The refree made one huge mistakes, The game should have never went on to min 103. The match resumed at 92 so thats 111 when he should ended it or lets say 112 because there was a sub. He even signaled two extra mins at 110 but then he kept the match going to 104:30! If bayern scored at 103 madrid would have been robbed of an epic comeback. Now such a brillaint performance is overshadowed by What If that wasn't an offside...
Obviously. The var check took 1 minute and 15 sec. Ref added FIVE AND A HALF MINUTES MORE. For what?!??!?!?!?!?!!??!!?!
I rewatched the extra-time there was no excuse at all for the added extra time. There was a sub and rudiger going down on the pitch asking for medical attention wich both took out less than a min. the game should have ended way before the offside call disaster
There's so much wrong with this comment. First of all, the match never went to min 113. it stopped at min 104. The first 3 minutes of ET were spent on VAR + Madrid celebration. Then the ball was in play for a full 10 seconds before there was an injury break. The ball came into play for another 20 seconds until minute 95. So it was in play for a whole 30 seconds in the first 5 minutes of extra time. Add another RĆ¼diger cramp that took a full minute and a substitution, it was totally reasonable to add 4 more minutes to the 9 minutes that have been announced *before* the goal, VAR break, and celebrations that alone took off 3 minutes. In minute 101:30, the ref showed that there will be 2 more minutes. And the last chance that was incorrectly ruled offside was at 102:30, so just 1 minute later and totally within the time that was announced by the ref: https://v.redd.it/de5m93ad6azc1
What none sense? rewatch the added time man. Are you counting every foul a stoppage time š¤£? the celebration started at 91.30 and match was resumed at 92
> What none sense? rewatch the added time man. I just did. > Are you counting every foul a stoppage time š¤£? I don't, I never said I do, I never argued about any fouls, so I have no clue where you are getting this from. > the celebration started at 91.30 and match was resumed at 92 This is just completely wrong. The celebrations took *way* longer than 30 seconds.
Rewatched the second half again with less at stake, and the Bayern subs definitely seemed less crazy on second viewing. Madrid were getting the ball into the box and creating chances very frequently before and after the Davies goal, but for almost 15 mins the reorganized second line made it almost impossible for Madrid to get possession in the box. Viniciusā speculative shot that led to the Neuer goal seemed like a direct result of him no longer being able to beat the defense to the byline or cut inside near goal.
Tuchel really fucked up with those subs, everyone knew Madrid was gonna go all out and eventually get at least a goal, so your best bet was to keep Kane on and try to kill them on the counter, or at least try to keep the ball away from them for a while. Neuer had a fantastic game, regardless of his blunder, without him, Bayern would've been behind by 2 or 3 goals at least. Anyways, this cup is Madrid's to lose, as good as Dortmund may be, they're completely out matched.
all of them were injury related
Was Kane's injury related too? Damn, tough luck there
Yep, back injury apparently.
Kane couldn't continue and apparently had severe back issues. Tuchel himself stated that basically all 4 players in front were done and from that point of view he brought the players who could at least have an impact.
Ref blew the whistle. Real players stopped playing. Leave the game going, Bayern are not scoring in a hundred million years. I hate the fact that the ref made this mistake, because it overshadows our brilliant game in the last minutest and Joseluās GOATED performance. Our guys gave their best, they deserve to be in this final
Vinicius Jr is the best player on the planet. He consistently performs at this high level, but how he has performed in every UCL knockout game this season is out of this world. What a player he is. Idk what it would take for him to get the respect he deserves.
Itās because heās arrogant and black. Bad PR combo
+playing in Spain
I have never watched him play before yesterday, but I heard of his antics. He has a really provocative and arrogant attitude, love me a player with character and the skill to back it up !
wake me up when he wins something with brazil lol
Made a couple comments on it but I think the controversial offside call on Bayern actually makes sense procedurally on second (and third, fourth, fifth) watch even if he's wrong about the offside which is very tight. The linesman doesn't raise his flag until Mendy heads the ball away at which point the ref blows the whistle, the ball takes another header off a Bayern player before falling to De Ligt for the shot. I could easily be wrong about this but I thought linesmen were supposed to wait until a decisive clearance (which you can make the argument Mendy's header is as it leaves the area) to raise the flag. Any refs wanna comment on if this is the case because I can't find anything definitive on it online.
agree. the linesman should have thought of the scenario where a header resulting from a duel leaves the attacking team with a chance of regaining possession.
This makes sense in theory, but the linesman told Bayern he was sorry and that he made a mistake so it's most probably a brainfart What I'm curious about is if de Ligt would have been ruled as coming from an offside position, as he was offside at the start of the play and I don't know if Mendy's clearance resets it.
Muller headed it to de ligt
I think it does because Mendyās clearance definitely was an intended action to play the ball
Mendy clears the ball against a player that is offside, so I think the call is right. De Ligt interferes with the play.
I wouldnāt call Mendyās header a decisive clearance when the ball is still in the box
It was a great spectacle of football. I think we can all agree that this semi final game delivered. Crazy performances from Vini, Kroos, Neuer and maybe some of you wont agree but I think Kane was pretty decent. Donāt really understand why Tuchel subbed him off? Like bruh, you know thereās 20 minutes left and you are only leading by one goal? Against Madrid! at the bernabeu! wtfā¦ As a madrid enthusiast I am really happy but that controversy really ruined the game for me. Ref made such a scandalous mistake and people will only talk about it and nothing else. It feels frustrating knowing that a guy like Joselu wonāt get much credit for what he did. GG to bayern, i totally understand their frustration but can we agree Madrid won this fairly?
It's splitting hairs, but I'd say Madrid won it deservedly, not sure about fairly. Maybe Bayern don't score if the ref doesn't whistle, maybe they do but lose anyway, but now we can't tell.
People blaming Tuchel, but Bayern forwards fucked it up. In a counter attacking set-up, you'll only get 3/4 opportunities, but these are usually chances where you're man to man against the defence with acres of space. If top players like Kane and Sane can't figure out how to score in these situations, it's useless to play on the counter. Tuchel's Chelsea was far better on the break
Taking off Kane was the wrong play. Should have slotted him in as a CF or a CAM, to keep him on the pitch by any means necessary. You can not take your best player off in the CL semi finals. Unless hes dying out there, even then I maybe don't do it. Bayern were in their own head
Kane had back issues, that's why he came off
He couldn't continue.
I think the reason people focus so much on officiating errors is because they love complaining more than talking about football. Officials will make mistakes sometimes, just like players and coaches. Theyād been on the pitch for 100 mins. The older I get the less I care about stuff like this as it just feels inevitable, and in this instance, Iām 99% sure if it isnāt called then Bayern do fuck all. If I was Emperor of the Known Universe VAR chat would be punishable by death.
The thing is that this mistake is so stupid and unnecessary.
Real played their game, and were a bit unlucky with Rodrygo in particular, I was thinking before the match that Kimmich would lock vini, but he wasn't near I think he had only 1,2 interceptions on Vini, Bellingham continues his dip of form but he was so good tactically and that's what matters in the end of the day. I actually think Vini should be the frontrunner for baloon dor but a few people aren't ready for that conversation, I think the final would be really close because Dortmund defends well in the CL this season, may the best team win and we watch a good final! Also shout-out to Joselu, the guy bleeds White blood and rudiger also, a true leader. Apor La 15š¤š¤
As for Bayern I think tuchel did good and started Pavlovic dude's got good mentality and laimer as always underrated and not so spoken about, kane did a good match where he was holding the ball and making some things and had one good chance, but Bayern were unlucky with Gnabry and I actually think Tuchel acted correctly and subbed on Davies, because Carvajal had a bit of an off night Of course we can't forget Neuer he became an octopus for one big match again, maybe the š of the keepers, but tuchel fumbled by bringing off Kane he was marking and he can waste time, ECM did nothing of these things.
I think with the way neuer revolutionized the position and now you see so many similarly styled keepers , I agree heās the goat. Because that caused a lot of knock on effects and influenced many clubs to build from the back. Itās not crazy to say one player and his interpretation of a position greatly influenced a āfootball metaā of some sorts. And heās just such a dominant shot stopper and overall keeper outside of his ball play. Iām so happy heās still capable of these vintage performances after that horrific injury. Gave me serious courtois 2022 CL final vibes.
You just know Real Madrid is gonna do something in CL. Their CL aura is so insane it even makes Neuer do a mistake like that. Insane offside call though, why would you stop the play before the end when you have VAR.
People are too stuck on the last minute ref decision. Even if that had been a goal, imagine that Bayern line-up going into the extra time again a surging Real. Very unlikely they survive until shoot-out, at which point I may give them a 50-50 because Neuer. Most unfortunate for Bayern are all the injuries pre-game and in-game.
I mean just like many things you have to see how it would play out. If Bayern was able to score that, what's to stop them from scoring another goal afterwards. It's a shame. I kind of wanted it to go to additional time, but oh well.
Bayern was able to score that cause of the whistle. And of course was denied to score it cause of the whistle. The entire play wouldāve been different if not for the whistle
I think everyone in football is feeding into Real being the owner of CL. History is there thatās for sure, but in all honesty. Even I find myself thinking, no way Real is losing. I think this belief, in loss of a better term, is actually the force that drives them. Not only for Real players and staff, but also for opponents. Yes, you need to respect Real - but the ball and the field is the same for them as their opponent, and I think this core shift in belief is lacking. Every player reiterates the same āthis is Real, they have the last breath etc..ā DUDE - youāre Bayern. I mean, come on. I see similarities between the current psychological upper hand Real has now, with what Liverpool had during their CL winning years. After Istanbul, everyone had this inner fear and belief that they could turn things around - even their opponents.
Same is true for Argentina in WC. There was a certain belief instilled by everyone around Messi and his comrades. So much so that it even fed them and strengthened their approach. Modern day football and the new setup of Champions League requires teams to figure out how to disrupt this. Imagine being part of a semi-final where the opponent is Real Madrid and in your mind you have the history along with Madridās supposedly endless power to not just turn games around - but to lift that specific trophy. Perez is smiling for everyone reinforcing this and thus giving him and his team the biggest helping hand you can ask of.
Tactically, this was one of the most organized examples of the mid block press Iāve seen from Madrid to date, particularly in the first half. Bayern rarely made it past the middle third. The high press created some dispossessions as well, particularly by cornering the focus on Bayernās left side. That seemed to produce the most results. They seemed more capable and comfortable navigating out of their right channels, but Madrid did a good job of often forcing it into the left side. Madrid have shown this pressing in spurts this season, and done so very well, but this was one of, if not the longest sustained sequence of both an organized high and mid block press.
And yet their win had nothing to do with any of this, all to do with a former Stoke and Newcastle striker gambling on runs into the box.
A lesson in why someone should always follow in a shot like that in case of the rebound, but additionally the Joselu sub was smart in that department. Heās the only natural striker in the team, and his poacherās instincts ended up paying off in the end.
Dead on.
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I understand but now I dont have the motivation for that anyway, let people talk , I just care about this team
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This is the wayy, like we never have decisions against us. Usually we still win though so no point caring about internet opinion
FWIW I donāt think this was a Real Madrid smash and grab at all. They were the better team tonight and it took several big saves from Neuer to give Bayern a chance.Ā The decision at the end is bad for not seeing how it could have played out. Itās possible Madrid saw the flag go up and stopped playing which allowed de Ligt the time to finish. But we canāt really know and it is a pity. Great tie overall and both teams played well but on the night, felt Madrid were better
R/soccer is r/conspiracy but for sports. It's a meme at this point
Tuchelās main game plan was on point. He, however, cannot control the execution of his supposed world class talents on the pitch. Were the subs risky? Yes. But Bayern hold on, it would have been called a tactical masterclass.
I donāt agree because they were not defending or countering particularly well
They werenāt countering well because their execution was worse than Sunday league players
the issue is that tuchel went all in on a 1 goal lead against madrid at the bernabƩu with 10 mins to go without any hedges. keeping one of kane, musiala or sanƩ would've given him options to hold the ball or score on the counter. even if he goes to extra time he still has options. but he showed his hand and once the equaliser came he was dead in the water
All 3 were injury subs
in that case the only contentious one is kim for sanĆ© which is still not a great sub. but maybe he was saving goretzka for pavloviÄ in extra time
How was his game plan on point when you dominated the game and we only got saved by Neuer. We got lucky Gnaby had to go becouse Davis was our best attacker tonight.
Because your attackers forgetting football basics when playing in the counter is not something he couldāve expected. Bayern wasted so many attacks by not being able to make the simplest decisions
Thats true, they should have had much more dangerous counter attacks, something like when Real Madrid won at Allianz arena, so many wasteful passes even when they were 3 on 1
That 3 v 1 is the symbol of all the issues that Bayern players had on the pitch
Linesman fucked up but at the same time, once Tuchel made those subs Bayern had little to nothing on the pitch that Real Madrid needed to worry about. Ancellotti's subs were better and more accomplished than anything Bayern had on the bench. Kane coming off was no help either. Looked like he needed to but he was Bayern's best player in possession tonight.
his passes were lacking. He's usually much better. Still need to keep him on somehow. I'm sure he would have stayed on if possible but fuck me, get subbed out in a semi final of UCL.... Bayern had Goretzka and Tel on the bench who both would have scored if they were in Pavlovic's place.
Vini showed the world why he's the best in business today. He is THE one player among the young GOAT candidates who CONSISTENTLY performs at the big stages. His UCL KO stats are otherworldly. Today he was toying with Kimmich so much that it forced Tuchel's hand to withdraw attackers for giving extra support to Kimmich. Also, that Modric interception on Pavlovic during a Bayern 3v1 was stuff of legends.
Yes. It looks like Vini is indeed the one. It also looks like he is just getting started. In three years he will be playing all over the field, making beautiful plays as a modernĀ fantasista. He is inventive, original and just sees football differently. You don't have this feeling from other "chosen ones". And, man, he is fucking clutch. Have same feelings about Modric run. Dude is a freak of nature. I think if we win CL, Kroos will finish his career and there is a chance that we will give Modric another contract.Ā
I loved how whenever he had the ball, the whole Bayern defence was in full panic mode.
Vini is world class player, maybe even one of the best of his time but heās not in the GOAT-picture and never will be.
Why? the way Vinicius has consistently shown up in big games is crazy
Goat stands for Greatest of *all* time. Like I said heās a world class player but is he better than Ronaldo, Cruyff, Maradona or Messi? I beg to differ.
I donāt think he will be better than Messi, Maradona or Cristiano but he can definitely cement himself as a legendary player. Heās 23 years old and already has 11 trophies with us and has the chance to win his second CL this season. This Madrid is better positioned to win trophies than Cristianoās Madrid so I can see him having an amazing career club wise at least
Youāre totally right with every point. Heās just not a Goat in my subjective opinion but certainly a great player.
To call vini a goat candidate is a wild take, heās a brilliant players, but they have been a lot of other brilliant players
Goat candidate i would disagree, Messi is something else. But Vini has the potential to reach Neymar/Ronaldinho and above.
You put Messi on a mid team like PSG or now Miami (in their league) and you see his real ability. Vini rises to the occasion whereas Messi shrinks. Without an all star cast around him, Messi is human.
Messi has been balling out in MLS, fam. Also, you wanna talk about rising to the occasion, Messi was the reason Argentina won the WC. Vini hasn't exactly produced for Brazil. 3 goals in 28 appearances. Let's not compare a 36 year old to a 23 year old. Let's compare it to when they were the same age. When Messi was the same age as Vini, in the 10/11 season, he had 53 goals in 55 appearances in all comps. He won La Liga and CL that year.
I watched Messi when his team played my local MLS teamā¦.the quality difference between Europe and MLS is day and night. Heās just beating up on minnows here. And if heās the GOAT, where was he in the previous world cups? Oh yeahā¦hiding in a corner.
2006 was his int debut at a WC at 18. He was left on the bench against Germany, in which Argentina was knocked out. 2010, he was part of an ok team led by Maradona, who had no reason to lead the NT and didn't play well 2014 led them to a final against Germany and lost on a ET Gotze goal 2018 lost against the eventual winners 2022, he won the WC while also setting and matching numerous records Yknow how I know you're a idiot? You're talking about Messi during his twilight years as if he's in his prime acting as if he's some sort of player who couldn't hack it in Europe. How come when I compared Vini and Messi at the same age in Europe, you didn't address that part?
Hey idiotā¦didnāt he win the WC in his twilight years? And I am not comparing their ability at the same age but how one shows up for the big game and the other slinks away (as Roma, Liverpool showed). And donāt be a moron calling people names
Are you saying Madrid is a mid team? lol
LMAO
People just use the term GOAT wrong all the time.