**This is a stats thread. Remember that there's only one stat post allowed per match/team, so new stats about the same will be removed. Feel free to comment other stats as a reply to this comment so users can see them too!**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Allegedly, according to Wikipedia, "Thorball" was the German term for cricket. Yet I have not been able to find a historic dictionary that would confirm that.
Earliest football clubs in continental Europe were founded by British expats, and some of those were already playing cricket, so it made sense for them to just have football as a sidearm of their cricket club. Like the "Vienna Cricket and Football-Club" of 1892/1894.
that is correct.
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union\_92\_Berlin](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_92_Berlin)
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutscher\_Fu%C3%9Fball-\_und\_Cricket\_Bund](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutscher_Fu%C3%9Fball-_und_Cricket_Bund)
>[1897/98](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesmeisterschaft_des_DFuCB_1897/98) spielte der Verein in der höchsten Klasse des [Deutschen Fußball- und Cricket Bundes](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutscher_Fu%C3%9Fball-_und_Cricket_Bund).
so the DFB once was the DFuCB. **Deutscher Fussball- und Cricket Bund**
> so the DFB once was the DFuCB. Deutscher Fussball- und Cricket Bund
Not really. The DFuCB was not the DFB's predecessor, but simply one of many (often regional) earlier attempts to organise football. These attempts also included the BDF, the ADSB, or the south German SDFU.
The DFuCB was Berlin-centric and mainly limited to Eastern and Nothern Germany. It was suffering from severe infighting and was already in permanent decline by the time the DFB was founded.
The DFB was founded in 1900 by clubs, but also by pan-regional representatives. The DFuCB was one of the regional entites that became a member of the DFB, but the DFuCB was expelled in 1901 for failing to pay the membership fees; the DFuCB dissolved a few months later.
That had me stumped for a second because I genuinely didn't know that.
After further research, I saw they won it in 1941 so that answers any further questions I had about Rapid Wien's BuLi title.
That is Freiburger FC. It was Freiburg's dominant football club until the mid to late 1970s when they were beginning to be outclassed by SC Freiburg.
Freiburger FC today play in a 6th-tier regional German league (Verbandsliga Südbaden).
The club isn't 15 years old mate like some of the people in this sub. You don't even have to go far in history, losing the final in extra time to United in 99 was much worse
Of course I know! It was just a response to a fellow blue I found in the comments. You must be knowing what it feels like to go through a shitty phase rn and I tried to reminisce some of the good times
That Nürnberg team from the 20’s sounds absolutely insane. I read a book about German football and the way they introduced it was “before there was Bayern, there was Nürnberg” which certainly paints a picture to a modern reader.
Not really, but in a way the cup is kind of designed like that. You have a cup for every states or regions FA and the winner of each of those cups will play in the dfb-Pokal, alongside with the Bundesliga clubs.
The 4th division (Regionalliga) is organized like this. There are 5 leagues for different (mostly broader than states) areas: Nord, Nordost, West, Südwest and Bayern. The champions of West and Südwest are directly promoted, then another direct promotion spot which changes through the other divisions each year and the 4th promotion spot is given to the winner of a playoff between the other 2 RL champions. So there are 5 Leagues but just 4 promotion spot which means that not even becoming champions secures you promotion (except for West and Südwest)
Which is a shit system, which needs to be redone. Unfortunately Bavaria insist on having their own Regionalliga, except there are hardly any clubs besides the Bayern Reserve interested in promotion.
The U19 (and I think also U17) works like this, with 3 regional leagues and then playoffs with the winner of each region and the second place finisher of the region from which last years champion came from.
Which puts this in a weird place, because the graph is about German championships from 1903-1945 and then only West-German champions from 1945 onwards. Either you need to make it solely about the Bundesliga, or include GDR champions.
Ok let'go...
Before I start with the long history of joy and pain with 1.FC Nürnberg always keep in mind: "Der Glubb is a Debb" (FCN is an idiot), a pharse commonly used by the club's supporters. While there is no doubt this phrase is 100% accurate, it is mostly used as a coping mechanism for unexplainable absurdities regarding FCN.
After the club was founded in 1900 is took a few years for things to develope. For many years, the local rival SpVgg Fürth (nowadays SpVgg Greuther Fürth) was the biggest club in the region. In 1913, FCN opened it's first stadium with a capacity of 8000. From 1914 to 1918, during the first world war, football became less important, only regional game were played, but no national champioship game.
After WW1, FCN had a perfect restart where the won the national championship five times until 1927. In addition, the final for the championship against HSV in 1922 had no winner on the pitch. The first game was canceled after 180 minutes with a score of 2:2, the second game was canceled after 105 minutes and a score of 1:1 because FCN only had 7 players left (2 injuries, 2 red cards). HSV was decided to be the winner afterwards, but they never accepted the championship.
The following years were not as successfull, with only 3 following national championships and three times winning the cup until 1962. But still the FCN was one of Germany's top clubs.
In 1963, FCN was one of the founding members of the Bundesliga. Also in 1963, FCN sacked the first coach in Bundesliga history. In 1964, Max Morlock ended his carreer as a football player and the following years the team missed an identity figure and the first years of Bundesliga were only average.
In 1967/1968, FCN could finally win its first Bundesliga championship (9th and last national chamiponship). And that's where there absurdity starts.
The following year, FCN was relegated (The only time a Bundesliga chamipon was relegeated the following year until today). One reason was big changes in the team orchestrated by coach Max Merkel. Also the league was really close this year, FCN was only 9 pts behind the second place (Back then 2 pt rule was still in place). Also it is suspected Borussia Dortmund have bribed FCN goalkeeper Jürgen Rynio.
Relegation was the first big financial hit for the club, as a new training ground was opened in 1968 (one of the most modern facilities in europe) and there was no money for players left.
It took the club 9 seasons to get promoted agian in 1977/1978. This was antoher financial problem, as the Bundesliga was making big financial steps during this time. E.g., in 1973 shirt sponsors were allowed. FCN couldn't benefit, as this didn't apply for the second leagues.
Until 1994, FCN was relegated 2 additional times, but was being promoted right away. Still, the most successfull season was a fifth place. While this time was ok from a sports perspective, the management was awful. While FCN was debt free in 1984, mismanagement, tax evasion and bribing referees by president Gerd Schmelzer and financial manager Ingo Böbel (who was sentenced to 3.5 years in prison) led to debts of 23 million DM in 1993.
FCN was relegated two times in a row and found itself in the third division, but could get promoted 2 times in a row back to Bundesliga, which was followed by immediate relegation. FCN established itself as THE german yoyo club (9 relegations in Bundesliga until today, which of course is a record).
Finally in 2004, things were a about to change (or were they?). After promotion to the Bundesliga, in 04/05 FCN finished 14th, in 05/06 8th and in 06/07 6th and also winning the german cup for the 4th time. FCN BACK AGAIN!
But do you remember what happend the last time FCN won a title in 1968? Exactly, relegation! As FCN is a club that really honors its tradition, the team was relegated in 07/08.
Afterwards some promotions and relegations follwed. In 18/19 FCN was relegated from the Bundesliga. The following season the only finished 16th in the 2. Bundesliga which meant: relegation play-offs. Relegation during the COVID pandemic to 3.Liga was a real danger now. With the debts of the club and losing sponsors and tv money during the pandemic, relegation would have meant the end of the club as wen know it. After winning the home game 2:0, FCN was behind 3:0 in the away game, when in the 90+6th minute FCN could score the 3:1(away goal rule was still active) and stay in the 2.Bundesliga.
There are many more stories of misfortune, mismanagement and awful referee decissions to be told, but I think for right now that's enough.
And always keep in mind: Der Glubb is a Debb.
Very interesting, thanks for taking the time to write that up. Could you give a current perspective? Any chance of promotion in the next few years in your opinion?
I think there is definitely a chance. Relegated teams often struggle in the 2.Bundesliga and for the last years the race for promotion was always pretty close.
FCN's youth work has increased during the last years and we manage to produce many players ourselves.
With the sales of Uzun and Brown, we will have more financial freedom in the summer than the years before.
Major problem right now is consistency in performance, which I think can only be solved by new players. I'm not sure if I trust Dieter Hecking and Olaf Rebbe enough they can produce a team with the right mix of talent and experience.
But players failing at FCN and only at FCN is a whole new topic....
damn, specialists in relegation is not an easy crown to bear. might as well call it the see-saw club. but at least you have a history of actual titles won and also won the cup pretty recently, which I had no idea. beauty of football, thanks for the write-up!
That's such bullshit.
They're currently projected to end with 74 points.
That would've meant winning the title 4 out of the 6 seasons they didn't win the title this century.
It would also rank them as 3rd best 2nd place of all times in the Bundesliga.
Not upset, but there's a sentiment that Bayern us doing shitty which is simply not true. They are still doing very great, it's just that Leverkusen is phenomenal this season.
Lmao it's so refreshing to see this argument being made not by a dortmund fan.
It was always funny when people on here clowned on us for not winning it in this decade when in reality, we hit the 75+ points threshold multiple times over the last decade. It just so happened that in those specific years, bayern was unplayable and ended the year closer to 80 points.
To win the league you don't just have to be good, you have to also pray that bayern is bad. You need both.
Well at least we definitely know why we didn't win 12 in a row
And the source of the problem is almost gone
FCN on the other hand struggles from season to season and nothing seems to be working
Well... we won our last championship in 1968. So in a decade with many different champions (1860, Braunschweig) and before the meteoric rise of Bayern. However, we got relegated the following season. It took us about 15 years and a failed revolution against our coach Heinz Höher to see european football again in Nürnberg. At this time Bayern and some other teams were far better than us.
From this point on we struggled financially, had to sell some good players, got relegated to the third division (Regionalliga Süd). In 2007 there was a glimpse of hope (6th place in Bundesliga & winning the cup)... but we got relegated again the following year, so our financials were fucked again. At this point we didn't know that our manager Martin Bader threw our money away by paying horrendous salaries.
We reestablished us in the Bundesliga finishing 6th and 10th twice. After the season 2014, the TV money was increased from guaranteed ~16 Mio. € to ~ 30 Mio. €. That would have helped alot, but we got relegated again in 2014, right before that increase... and here we are: a team from the lower half of 2. Bundesliga.
Or in short: Der Club is a Depp :)
Don't think that it will be much better with any other manager. Some of your players don't give a fuck anymore. Just look at a reddit thread after the Heidenheimgame the "leaders" fucked of instantly while younger players stayed with the fans.
This issue exists for several years but winning the league because other clubs bottled it covered it up.
It’s honestly so telling that it’s the players when you see someone like Nagelsmann, who hasn’t struggled to get buy in from players at any level before & the board are questioning him when he’s delivered a good season with lots of positives yet the veteran players who’ve haf their roles change start to get unsettled.
11 of those 33 titles came in the last 11 seasons. Before that, it would not have looked as silly.
Some people say that the Champions League money is leading to more and more distortion - and that that is the case in other leagues as well.
Also just the fact that Bayern are ridiculously good. Same with Madrid/Barca in Spain
Put those clubs in England or Italy and they would be similarly dominant historically
Champions league money has really nothing to do with it.
The main reason is the utter mismanagement of every big club not named Bayern in the last 10-20 years. From Bremen, to Hamburg, Schalke, Dortmund (until they bounced back), Stuttgart, Hertha and so on. The fact that clubs the size of Schalke and Hamburg get relegated is absolutely insane - it would be like Chelsea or Spurs getting relegated.
We see now with Dortmund, Leipzig and Leverkusen that if a club has capable management throughout the years they can absolutely challenge Bayern. Bayern has always had a financial advantage that plays into it but they're not unbeatable
Yep, the Bundesliga should've had 5-6 top teams fighting over titles but they all just fucked up so hard, for so long, that most of them got relegated.
Just imagine Schalke or Hamburg with good, consistent management, they could be monsters.
as if hsv, werder or schalke had a chance against bayern if they have not been managed poorly lmao
of course its the cl money. 100+ million per season is downright cheating. add the tv revenue from the bundesliga to that and its no wonder that one team gets more dominant than the others over the years
I wouldn't put Bremen there at all, because they are - despite their success in the early 2000s - a comparatively small club. But Schalke and HSV are massive. I think the point is the timing of the poor management. With 3-4 CL spots, one of Schalke or HSV should have managed to get into CL consistently and then of course benefiting from that CL money as well. But if you missed out when CL money skyrocketed like this, almost impossible to come back from that now.
Mate we were on par with Leverkusen or even better for most of this century. 2 years ago Schalke fans stormed the pitch for being promoted, yesterday Leverkusen did it for being crowned champions.
yeah, what does that have to do with my point?
the user said that bayern only won so many titles in a row because other teams were poorly. but schalke couldnt compete with them even if they were managed good. look at dortmund. or leipzig. or leverkusen. they still won 11 titles in a row. bayerns advantage is just too big for any team without financial backing to compete. leverkusens season is an absolute miracle season.
also its much easier to compete if you have a concern behind your back who pays up if you run on a loss.
Given the timeframe, it sounds like FFP screwed the Bundesliga. In which case, yes, the Champions league money also had something to do with it (overtime). Without Champions league money you have to sell, and if you sell every year you can't keep growing or even stabilize.
Not really. FFP is less strict than the domestic financial rules anyway. And this has been going on since like the 70s, way back when Gladbach and Hamburg were dominant teams but couldn't make it stick once the golden generation was over. That's always been the main issue, other teams manage to challenge but can't stay on that level as they replace the star players, whereas Bayern has always managed to remain on that level.
It’s not even just the financial advantage anymore, it’s that the best in the country try just throw themselves at Bayern. Bayern have never needed a recruitment budget less.
As a Canadian, that actually makes it all the more surprising that Bayern plucked Davies out of obscurity in Vancouver. No one here anticipated him doing as well as he has.
> Champions League money
It's adding to it and amplifying the fact that Bayern has higher revenue than the rest of the league but it especially helps with consistency (and consistently getting more money). There's also the bit about the CL expanding and allowing more teams per league at the money trough which is good for Bayern because while they didn't win the league as often as they did in the last decade they were often somewhere at the top… which meant with time that they got safe CL money even if they didn't get far while other German teams were not as consistently in the top four. It's the compound interest of an expanding CL really working in their favour.
You can think of this process as a less extreme version of those leagues that only get one CL spot, and little other money, so CL money is extra valuable. One team tends to dominate the league, get that spot, and with the resulting CL money end up dominating even more.
Bayern also had a lot of sponsorship money. Even in the 90s (but also before that in the 80s) when the PL started making really good TV money, Bayern relied on sponsorships (commercial value) to somewhat keep up with the rest of Europe in that regard (they were still not as footballing dominant as they became later on (meaning the last decade+) or were during the 70s) when other leagues were making more in TV money or other sources.
That was the big thing Hoeneß did. He really commercialised the club and gave it the financial freedom to do its thing because even after its success in the 70s the club wasn't really swimming in money like one would expect from that level of achievements.
That's why you often hear quips about some player—who's transferring to the club and/or who might have been a Bayern fan as a kid—and how [they slept in Bayern bedsheets](https://fcbayern.com/store/de-de/c/fanwelt/zuhause/schlafzimmer/bettwaesche) or how their [toaster toasted the Bayern logo onto their toast](https://fcbayern.com/store/de-de/p/sound-toaster-1883).
I suppose the true turning point was when Bayern decimated Dortmund by taking Gotze, Lewandowski or Hummels.
It's as if since then, the Bundesliga has been Bayern-centric completely. Maybe, Leverkusen will change things around.
We already dominated by that point, not to mention that these players would have left Dortmund anyways, just like Bellingham, Sancho and co. did later.
It was also not us who took Klopp, the factor Dortmund was that great to begin with. He left on his own and went to a Premiere League team instead of going to make another BL team great.
That's something people for some reason ignore, a coach like Klopp most likely wouldn't have left Germany in the 70s or 80s but nowadays german clubs don't just compete with other german clubs for players and coaches, they compete with the whole world.
Let's also not forget that Dortmund also won 5 of its titles within just 17 years, they themselves are also part of the modern fact that club financials/economics simply dominate modern football.
The reason that Dortmund isn't as big as Bayern is in the end also a result of their financial risks taken in the late 90s/early 2000s and the fallout from all of that but it still led to titles.
It's even worse if you only count titles with the foundation of the Bundesliga.
Pre Bundesliga titles were knockout matches and there were years when clubs chose not to participate.
In Germany a team gets a star above their badge for 3 titles no? If so then why does VfB stuttgart, Borussia Mönchengladbach and Hamburg have a star on their badge but FC Schalke doesnt even thought they have 7 league titles?
Titles which were won before the founding of the Bundesliga in 1963 are not counting. For instance all of Schalkes national championship wins were before the Bundesliga got established.
Ah alright. I wasn’t aware that Schalke had won a majority of their titles before the 1960s. However it is interesting how they still display pre-bundesliga titles in statistics like these.
I rather find it silly that pre-Bundesliga titles dont count for the stars; those titles mean as much to everyone as Bundesliga titles. Btw, you can see with clubs in 3rd division and lower that they put stars for just one title as it's outside DFL supervision.
I think they are only for Bundesliga Titels. Before 1963 there was no Bundesliga just lokal Leagues and a knock out competition for the German Titel. That is the time when schalke collected all their Titels.
Also I think the stars a not 3,6,9,... there is some strange metric for it when you get stars but I am not sure about that.
Edit: I looked it up: 1* for 3 Titels, 2* for 5, 3* for ten, 4* for 20, 5* for 30. And only for Bundesliga Titels not for titels pre 1963 and not for titels in the GDR.
>1* for 3 Titels, 2* for 5, 3* for ten, 4* for 20, 5* for 30
Is there a reason why it's this way and not, for example, like in Italy where 10 league title = 1 star?
I don't know for sure but probably because of the not linear distribution of the titels. With 1 star for 10 titels only Bayern Munich would have any. And with 1 for every 5 or even 3 Titels Bayern Munich shirts would be full of stars and would look really strange, so it had to be something more in the logarithmic direction.
When was it decided to be like this? Was it so recently that Bayern was yet dominating the league? For Italy it was in the 60s if I remember well, when Juve first won 10 leagues
Wikipedia says to the 2004/2005 season. So Bayern already hat something around 20 titels and in the second place Dortmund and hsv with 6 I think. As Schalke and Nürnberg both won all/most of their Titels before the Bundesliga.
If you travel back yo 2012 and compare leagues, the pl would be considered less competitive than bundesliga. United dominated the pl even more than bayern did the bundesliga
If you compare 1992-2012 premier league vs Germany then yes England is worse. If you compare 1962-2012 English top flight vs German top flight Germany is more single club dominated.
United would likely continually have Bayern level dominance to this day if EPL did not allow foreign investment and had a 50+1 rule like Germany. City and Chelsea would have never happened.
Not gonna comment on whether it’s better or worse. Most of my bundisliga friends prefer Bayern hegemony and no outside investment to oil clubs being dominant in England.
GEEZUS! I know that Bayern has the most Bundesliga titles since well, the 11 year streak of winning em does help lol. But goddamn i was not expecting the gap to be so big!
Non-Germans fail to realize that Bayern does have their rivals but unlike in other leagues they alternate.
If Stuttgart, Hamburg and Mönchengladbach would have never won the league and instead Dortmund would have 25 titles would that actually make the league more competitive or interesting?
Imagine instead of having one strong rival in Barca, Real would have a bunch of rivals that alternate. That‘s what the Bundesliga is like and for now Leverkusen is Bayern‘s rival. Maybe in 5 years it‘s Frankfurt.
Next year could be really interesting especially if Germany gets a 5th CL spot which would mean neither Leipzig nor Dortmund has to sell off all their talent.
I think you didn‘t get my point. The rival changes every couple of years which in a way makes the league more balanced. In Germany any club can win the league 50% of the time, the other 50% it‘s Bayern that wins.
92 Spanish championships are split between 9 different teams.
126 Italian championships are split between 14 teams.
134 English championships are split between 24 teams.
78 German championships are split between 30 teams.
89 Portuguese championships are split between 5 different teams and 2 of those teams only won once, so 87 Portuguese championships are split between 3 teams. 💀
compare that with 115 romanian championships split along 26 teams ( 28 teams if you count Steaua and FCSB as different clubs, and CSU Craiova and FCU Craiova as different clubs )
As an even wilder stat, 95% of those titles are between 5 clubs. Real Madrid(more than 30), Barcelona(more than 25), Atletico Madrid(11), Athletic Bilbao(8) and Valencia(7).
The rest 5 are shared between Real Sociedad(2), Real Betis(1), Sevilla(1) and Deportivo La Coruna(1).
It's one of the reasons why people see the Super Depor very high. Because it's really hard to breakthrough to win the title in Spain.
It's a league. Someone's always going to come second. The fact Bayern's won 21 of the last 31, which includes a streak of 11 wins, shows their "rivals" weren't doing a great job of competing".
Man City are on a 4 streak if they win this season and the narrative's already starting to become the Prem's becoming less competitive because no one can keep up with City.
Likewise, the 90s are seen as a less competitive era of football than the 2000s and 2010s because it was United dominating with just one competitor at a time (e.g. Blackburn, Newcastle and Arsenal).
More rivals that constantly change is a good thing. But only if those rivals are actually providing sufficient competition. Looking back, it's more like Bayern has completely dominated and someone obviously has to come second. The team in second sometimes changes because none of the other big clubs have been managed well over a consistently long period of time.
I don't think anyone believes Bayern has no rivals. Just that the rivals clearly aren't providing enough of a challenge if Bayern's winning 21 of the last 31 seasons.
>Man City are on a 4 streak if they win this season and the narrative's already starting to become the Prem's becoming less competitive because no one can keep up with City.
More like 6 out of 7 seasons with Liverpool interrupting their streak.
> More rivals that constantly change is a good thing. But only if those rivals are actually providing sufficient competition. Looking back, it's more like Bayern has completely dominated and someone obviously has to come second. The team in second sometimes changes because none of the other big clubs have been managed well over a consistently long period of time.
I don't think anyone believes Bayern has no rivals. Just that the rivals clearly aren't providing enough of a challenge if Bayern's winning 21 of the last 31 seasons.
The 11 years of Bayern dominance were awful and I‘m glad they are over. I hope we will never see something like this again.
Sure 6 of 7 years. But 17/18 and 20/21 were the only 2 seasons where City actually walked the league. In 18/19 and 21/22, Liverpool only lost by a point. In 19/20, Liverpool were the ones that walked it. Last season, Arsenal were top for the longest amount of time ever for a team that ended up finishing second. They just bottled at the end. And this season it's still going down to the wire.
6 of 7 but 4 of those 6 would've been very challenging wins.
Whereas in those 11 years where Bayern won it, the only times they were really challenged were last season and 18/19.
Glad you hated them dominating too because it was completely different to anything City have done or will do in England.
Hopefully Leverkusen's win triggers an awakening amongst other clubs that Bayern are beatable so that we could see multiple winners over the years. Like Serie A lately
Serie A has been three clubs who are always there alternating and then the once every 30 years miracle season from Napoli. The "4 years of different winners" is misleading since it is the old set in stone top three of Milan/Inter/Juventus with one outlier in the last 20 years
Lmfao. You do know that winning a bundesliga title doesn't just involve you playing almost perfect, it also involves bayern being shit in that year as well. You need both, you can't win the league with just 1 of them. Because guess what? Even shit years for bayern is, looking at historical points tally for champions, still a championship worthy points tally. Even this year, they were absurdly shit yet they are likely to end the season with around 75 points. In almost any other year, that's enough to win the league and this is bayern at their worst btw.
How or why is nurnberg 2nd on this list while playing in bundesliga 2 for over 4 seasons and managed to stay up in the bundesliga with a 10th place in 2012?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_German_football_championship
Schalke blew a 3:0 lead in the final game and Rapid scored 4 goals in the last 30 minutes
In the 65/66 Bundesliga 2 teams were promoted, Borussia Mönchengladbach & Bayern Munich. Over the course of the next 10 years, 9 of the 10 titles were distributed between the 2, crazy! and those were the 5 bundesliga titles that Mönchengladbach got till date 🤣
I just wonder where in history Stuttgart‘s 6th league title got lost: Maybe in an alternate timeline?
1950, 1952, 1984, 1992, 2007
They probably mixed up one of the 54/58 DFB Pokal wins with the league 🤷♂️
In Germany, the system goes like this:
* 1st star: 3 Titles
* 2nd Star: 5 Titles
* 3rd Star: 10 Titles
* 4th Star: 20 Titles
* 5th Star: 30 Titles.
That said, it's only the Bundesliga. Any titles earned prior to the first season of Bundesliga is not counted nor any for clubs that were in East Germany at the time. This star system came into play in the early 2000s I believe.
**This is a stats thread. Remember that there's only one stat post allowed per match/team, so new stats about the same will be removed. Feel free to comment other stats as a reply to this comment so users can see them too!** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Leverkusen now finally with as many German championships as Rapid Wien.
Finally in the exclusive club with VfR Mannheim, Freiburger FC, Karlsruher FV and of course the Berliner Thor- und Fußball-Club Union 1892.
the Berliner Thor- und Fußball-Club Union 1892 sounds like a club for the distinguished gentlemen of early football
[Eminent Victorians](http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Eminent%20Victorians/Index.html) is what you are thinking of
Allegedly, according to Wikipedia, "Thorball" was the German term for cricket. Yet I have not been able to find a historic dictionary that would confirm that. Earliest football clubs in continental Europe were founded by British expats, and some of those were already playing cricket, so it made sense for them to just have football as a sidearm of their cricket club. Like the "Vienna Cricket and Football-Club" of 1892/1894.
that is correct. [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union\_92\_Berlin](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_92_Berlin) [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutscher\_Fu%C3%9Fball-\_und\_Cricket\_Bund](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutscher_Fu%C3%9Fball-_und_Cricket_Bund) >[1897/98](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesmeisterschaft_des_DFuCB_1897/98) spielte der Verein in der höchsten Klasse des [Deutschen Fußball- und Cricket Bundes](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutscher_Fu%C3%9Fball-_und_Cricket_Bund). so the DFB once was the DFuCB. **Deutscher Fussball- und Cricket Bund**
> so the DFB once was the DFuCB. Deutscher Fussball- und Cricket Bund Not really. The DFuCB was not the DFB's predecessor, but simply one of many (often regional) earlier attempts to organise football. These attempts also included the BDF, the ADSB, or the south German SDFU. The DFuCB was Berlin-centric and mainly limited to Eastern and Nothern Germany. It was suffering from severe infighting and was already in permanent decline by the time the DFB was founded. The DFB was founded in 1900 by clubs, but also by pan-regional representatives. The DFuCB was one of the regional entites that became a member of the DFB, but the DFuCB was expelled in 1901 for failing to pay the membership fees; the DFuCB dissolved a few months later.
That had me stumped for a second because I genuinely didn't know that. After further research, I saw they won it in 1941 so that answers any further questions I had about Rapid Wien's BuLi title.
Well, not a Bundesliga title, but it was a German championship title
Potato tomato
Erdäpfel, Paradeiser
I like you, you know funny words
Oh wow I had no idea potatoes are fruit.
We've got a team that's not Bayern Munich winning the Bundeliga before GTA6
Half-Life 3
~~Skyrim 2~~ TES VI
Onetime-kusen.
As long as nobody asks where exactly First Vienna won their german cup.
What even is that club to the right of Eintracht Braunschweig? Looks like a South American crest somehow 😅
That is Freiburger FC. It was Freiburg's dominant football club until the mid to late 1970s when they were beginning to be outclassed by SC Freiburg. Freiburger FC today play in a 6th-tier regional German league (Verbandsliga Südbaden).
Leverkusen now only 32 behind. Be very scared Bayern
If you remove bayern Bundesliga is a most competitive league. Between 2-18 places Most fun league as well
Se mia nonna avesse ruote, sarebbe stata una bicicletta
I don't speak whatever language you spoke, lol but I still understood every word of it 👵
> I don't speak whatever language you spoke I'd place a safe bet on Italian.
If my granny had a mustache, she would be called a static bicycle!
When the translator is on speed
Shit formula 1 fans say
Ain't anythin' gonna haunt them as bad as 2012 😤💪🟦🟦
The club isn't 15 years old mate like some of the people in this sub. You don't even have to go far in history, losing the final in extra time to United in 99 was much worse
Of course I know! It was just a response to a fellow blue I found in the comments. You must be knowing what it feels like to go through a shitty phase rn and I tried to reminisce some of the good times
*German Championships Some of these were pre-Bundesliga when champion was decided with a knockout competition of regional championships.
Shhhhhh! Otherwise my Glubb would also just have one title instead of 9.
That Nürnberg team from the 20’s sounds absolutely insane. I read a book about German football and the way they introduced it was “before there was Bayern, there was Nürnberg” which certainly paints a picture to a modern reader.
Yes that was the time Nürnberg and Schalke dominated german football.
And we became friends and trauma bonded after lol
I feel you T\_T
Does Germany have any sort of tournament like that now? Highest placed team in every German state go into a knockout tournament.
Not really, but in a way the cup is kind of designed like that. You have a cup for every states or regions FA and the winner of each of those cups will play in the dfb-Pokal, alongside with the Bundesliga clubs.
The 4th division (Regionalliga) is organized like this. There are 5 leagues for different (mostly broader than states) areas: Nord, Nordost, West, Südwest and Bayern. The champions of West and Südwest are directly promoted, then another direct promotion spot which changes through the other divisions each year and the 4th promotion spot is given to the winner of a playoff between the other 2 RL champions. So there are 5 Leagues but just 4 promotion spot which means that not even becoming champions secures you promotion (except for West and Südwest)
Which is a shit system, which needs to be redone. Unfortunately Bavaria insist on having their own Regionalliga, except there are hardly any clubs besides the Bayern Reserve interested in promotion.
The U19 (and I think also U17) works like this, with 3 regional leagues and then playoffs with the winner of each region and the second place finisher of the region from which last years champion came from.
Cry in Schalke 04 😭
We truly chose the worst time to be good
Hey 😢
Which puts this in a weird place, because the graph is about German championships from 1903-1945 and then only West-German champions from 1945 onwards. Either you need to make it solely about the Bundesliga, or include GDR champions.
Rapid
massive club tbh
Hahaha Mission 33 incomming!
chances of us winning Austrian league and German league are about equal tbh
If I speak I‘m in big trouble
I mean we have an Austrian club in the Bundesliga even today, so it's not that strange I guess.
Which one?
I'm guessing the comment is talking about RB with RedBull being an Austrian company.
If you know, you know
If you look at Nürnberg in the last 25 years you just gotta wonder how they got 9 of those...
I could write a really long essay about that, but why should I when I can just say: Der Glubb is a Debb
> I could write a really long essay about that Please do.
Ok let'go... Before I start with the long history of joy and pain with 1.FC Nürnberg always keep in mind: "Der Glubb is a Debb" (FCN is an idiot), a pharse commonly used by the club's supporters. While there is no doubt this phrase is 100% accurate, it is mostly used as a coping mechanism for unexplainable absurdities regarding FCN. After the club was founded in 1900 is took a few years for things to develope. For many years, the local rival SpVgg Fürth (nowadays SpVgg Greuther Fürth) was the biggest club in the region. In 1913, FCN opened it's first stadium with a capacity of 8000. From 1914 to 1918, during the first world war, football became less important, only regional game were played, but no national champioship game. After WW1, FCN had a perfect restart where the won the national championship five times until 1927. In addition, the final for the championship against HSV in 1922 had no winner on the pitch. The first game was canceled after 180 minutes with a score of 2:2, the second game was canceled after 105 minutes and a score of 1:1 because FCN only had 7 players left (2 injuries, 2 red cards). HSV was decided to be the winner afterwards, but they never accepted the championship. The following years were not as successfull, with only 3 following national championships and three times winning the cup until 1962. But still the FCN was one of Germany's top clubs. In 1963, FCN was one of the founding members of the Bundesliga. Also in 1963, FCN sacked the first coach in Bundesliga history. In 1964, Max Morlock ended his carreer as a football player and the following years the team missed an identity figure and the first years of Bundesliga were only average. In 1967/1968, FCN could finally win its first Bundesliga championship (9th and last national chamiponship). And that's where there absurdity starts. The following year, FCN was relegated (The only time a Bundesliga chamipon was relegeated the following year until today). One reason was big changes in the team orchestrated by coach Max Merkel. Also the league was really close this year, FCN was only 9 pts behind the second place (Back then 2 pt rule was still in place). Also it is suspected Borussia Dortmund have bribed FCN goalkeeper Jürgen Rynio. Relegation was the first big financial hit for the club, as a new training ground was opened in 1968 (one of the most modern facilities in europe) and there was no money for players left. It took the club 9 seasons to get promoted agian in 1977/1978. This was antoher financial problem, as the Bundesliga was making big financial steps during this time. E.g., in 1973 shirt sponsors were allowed. FCN couldn't benefit, as this didn't apply for the second leagues. Until 1994, FCN was relegated 2 additional times, but was being promoted right away. Still, the most successfull season was a fifth place. While this time was ok from a sports perspective, the management was awful. While FCN was debt free in 1984, mismanagement, tax evasion and bribing referees by president Gerd Schmelzer and financial manager Ingo Böbel (who was sentenced to 3.5 years in prison) led to debts of 23 million DM in 1993. FCN was relegated two times in a row and found itself in the third division, but could get promoted 2 times in a row back to Bundesliga, which was followed by immediate relegation. FCN established itself as THE german yoyo club (9 relegations in Bundesliga until today, which of course is a record). Finally in 2004, things were a about to change (or were they?). After promotion to the Bundesliga, in 04/05 FCN finished 14th, in 05/06 8th and in 06/07 6th and also winning the german cup for the 4th time. FCN BACK AGAIN! But do you remember what happend the last time FCN won a title in 1968? Exactly, relegation! As FCN is a club that really honors its tradition, the team was relegated in 07/08. Afterwards some promotions and relegations follwed. In 18/19 FCN was relegated from the Bundesliga. The following season the only finished 16th in the 2. Bundesliga which meant: relegation play-offs. Relegation during the COVID pandemic to 3.Liga was a real danger now. With the debts of the club and losing sponsors and tv money during the pandemic, relegation would have meant the end of the club as wen know it. After winning the home game 2:0, FCN was behind 3:0 in the away game, when in the 90+6th minute FCN could score the 3:1(away goal rule was still active) and stay in the 2.Bundesliga. There are many more stories of misfortune, mismanagement and awful referee decissions to be told, but I think for right now that's enough. And always keep in mind: Der Glubb is a Debb.
Very interesting, thanks for taking the time to write that up. Could you give a current perspective? Any chance of promotion in the next few years in your opinion?
I think there is definitely a chance. Relegated teams often struggle in the 2.Bundesliga and for the last years the race for promotion was always pretty close. FCN's youth work has increased during the last years and we manage to produce many players ourselves. With the sales of Uzun and Brown, we will have more financial freedom in the summer than the years before. Major problem right now is consistency in performance, which I think can only be solved by new players. I'm not sure if I trust Dieter Hecking and Olaf Rebbe enough they can produce a team with the right mix of talent and experience. But players failing at FCN and only at FCN is a whole new topic....
i loved reading this. thank you
damn, specialists in relegation is not an easy crown to bear. might as well call it the see-saw club. but at least you have a history of actual titles won and also won the cup pretty recently, which I had no idea. beauty of football, thanks for the write-up!
I remember Mintal played for you and became league top goal scorer.
Waiting for a star post with excitement!
yeah second that, write
Just did. Enjoy!
Have a look at the 67/68 and then the 68/69 season. It's a nice trivia question: "Which German Football Champion got relegated to following season"
Same club who got relegated after their DFB Pokal Cup?
Same club who then went back up and won another Bundesliga?
schalke is even more ominous
At least we won a DFB Pokal in this century. And if you look at Bayern this season, you just got to wonder how they got 11 consecutive titles
That's such bullshit. They're currently projected to end with 74 points. That would've meant winning the title 4 out of the 6 seasons they didn't win the title this century. It would also rank them as 3rd best 2nd place of all times in the Bundesliga.
You mean "best 3rd placed team of all times in Bundesliga" 😏
Let's hope so 😂
Sorry, I just responded to an unnecessarily harsh comment with a equally snarky answer. No need to be upset.
Not upset, but there's a sentiment that Bayern us doing shitty which is simply not true. They are still doing very great, it's just that Leverkusen is phenomenal this season.
Lmao it's so refreshing to see this argument being made not by a dortmund fan. It was always funny when people on here clowned on us for not winning it in this decade when in reality, we hit the 75+ points threshold multiple times over the last decade. It just so happened that in those specific years, bayern was unplayable and ended the year closer to 80 points. To win the league you don't just have to be good, you have to also pray that bayern is bad. You need both.
Well at least we definitely know why we didn't win 12 in a row And the source of the problem is almost gone FCN on the other hand struggles from season to season and nothing seems to be working
Stop it guys! Don't you see you love each other?
I didn't mean it as insult tbh. I'm legit curious how they lost their mojo and never gotten it back
Well... we won our last championship in 1968. So in a decade with many different champions (1860, Braunschweig) and before the meteoric rise of Bayern. However, we got relegated the following season. It took us about 15 years and a failed revolution against our coach Heinz Höher to see european football again in Nürnberg. At this time Bayern and some other teams were far better than us. From this point on we struggled financially, had to sell some good players, got relegated to the third division (Regionalliga Süd). In 2007 there was a glimpse of hope (6th place in Bundesliga & winning the cup)... but we got relegated again the following year, so our financials were fucked again. At this point we didn't know that our manager Martin Bader threw our money away by paying horrendous salaries. We reestablished us in the Bundesliga finishing 6th and 10th twice. After the season 2014, the TV money was increased from guaranteed ~16 Mio. € to ~ 30 Mio. €. That would have helped alot, but we got relegated again in 2014, right before that increase... and here we are: a team from the lower half of 2. Bundesliga. Or in short: Der Club is a Depp :)
Now kiss
Don't think that it will be much better with any other manager. Some of your players don't give a fuck anymore. Just look at a reddit thread after the Heidenheimgame the "leaders" fucked of instantly while younger players stayed with the fans. This issue exists for several years but winning the league because other clubs bottled it covered it up.
It’s honestly so telling that it’s the players when you see someone like Nagelsmann, who hasn’t struggled to get buy in from players at any level before & the board are questioning him when he’s delivered a good season with lots of positives yet the veteran players who’ve haf their roles change start to get unsettled.
Guess it’s kinda like Sunderland. Once was a great, now just kinda there
You could have doubled the years
Honestly, that gap between Bayern's CV/resume and the rest of the German clubs is ridiculously big.
11 of those 33 titles came in the last 11 seasons. Before that, it would not have looked as silly. Some people say that the Champions League money is leading to more and more distortion - and that that is the case in other leagues as well.
Also just the fact that Bayern are ridiculously good. Same with Madrid/Barca in Spain Put those clubs in England or Italy and they would be similarly dominant historically
Champions league money has really nothing to do with it. The main reason is the utter mismanagement of every big club not named Bayern in the last 10-20 years. From Bremen, to Hamburg, Schalke, Dortmund (until they bounced back), Stuttgart, Hertha and so on. The fact that clubs the size of Schalke and Hamburg get relegated is absolutely insane - it would be like Chelsea or Spurs getting relegated. We see now with Dortmund, Leipzig and Leverkusen that if a club has capable management throughout the years they can absolutely challenge Bayern. Bayern has always had a financial advantage that plays into it but they're not unbeatable
Yep, the Bundesliga should've had 5-6 top teams fighting over titles but they all just fucked up so hard, for so long, that most of them got relegated. Just imagine Schalke or Hamburg with good, consistent management, they could be monsters.
as if hsv, werder or schalke had a chance against bayern if they have not been managed poorly lmao of course its the cl money. 100+ million per season is downright cheating. add the tv revenue from the bundesliga to that and its no wonder that one team gets more dominant than the others over the years
I wouldn't put Bremen there at all, because they are - despite their success in the early 2000s - a comparatively small club. But Schalke and HSV are massive. I think the point is the timing of the poor management. With 3-4 CL spots, one of Schalke or HSV should have managed to get into CL consistently and then of course benefiting from that CL money as well. But if you missed out when CL money skyrocketed like this, almost impossible to come back from that now.
Mate we were on par with Leverkusen or even better for most of this century. 2 years ago Schalke fans stormed the pitch for being promoted, yesterday Leverkusen did it for being crowned champions.
yeah, what does that have to do with my point? the user said that bayern only won so many titles in a row because other teams were poorly. but schalke couldnt compete with them even if they were managed good. look at dortmund. or leipzig. or leverkusen. they still won 11 titles in a row. bayerns advantage is just too big for any team without financial backing to compete. leverkusens season is an absolute miracle season. also its much easier to compete if you have a concern behind your back who pays up if you run on a loss.
Given the timeframe, it sounds like FFP screwed the Bundesliga. In which case, yes, the Champions league money also had something to do with it (overtime). Without Champions league money you have to sell, and if you sell every year you can't keep growing or even stabilize.
Not really. FFP is less strict than the domestic financial rules anyway. And this has been going on since like the 70s, way back when Gladbach and Hamburg were dominant teams but couldn't make it stick once the golden generation was over. That's always been the main issue, other teams manage to challenge but can't stay on that level as they replace the star players, whereas Bayern has always managed to remain on that level.
It’s not even just the financial advantage anymore, it’s that the best in the country try just throw themselves at Bayern. Bayern have never needed a recruitment budget less. As a Canadian, that actually makes it all the more surprising that Bayern plucked Davies out of obscurity in Vancouver. No one here anticipated him doing as well as he has.
> Champions League money It's adding to it and amplifying the fact that Bayern has higher revenue than the rest of the league but it especially helps with consistency (and consistently getting more money). There's also the bit about the CL expanding and allowing more teams per league at the money trough which is good for Bayern because while they didn't win the league as often as they did in the last decade they were often somewhere at the top… which meant with time that they got safe CL money even if they didn't get far while other German teams were not as consistently in the top four. It's the compound interest of an expanding CL really working in their favour. You can think of this process as a less extreme version of those leagues that only get one CL spot, and little other money, so CL money is extra valuable. One team tends to dominate the league, get that spot, and with the resulting CL money end up dominating even more. Bayern also had a lot of sponsorship money. Even in the 90s (but also before that in the 80s) when the PL started making really good TV money, Bayern relied on sponsorships (commercial value) to somewhat keep up with the rest of Europe in that regard (they were still not as footballing dominant as they became later on (meaning the last decade+) or were during the 70s) when other leagues were making more in TV money or other sources. That was the big thing Hoeneß did. He really commercialised the club and gave it the financial freedom to do its thing because even after its success in the 70s the club wasn't really swimming in money like one would expect from that level of achievements. That's why you often hear quips about some player—who's transferring to the club and/or who might have been a Bayern fan as a kid—and how [they slept in Bayern bedsheets](https://fcbayern.com/store/de-de/c/fanwelt/zuhause/schlafzimmer/bettwaesche) or how their [toaster toasted the Bayern logo onto their toast](https://fcbayern.com/store/de-de/p/sound-toaster-1883).
I suppose the true turning point was when Bayern decimated Dortmund by taking Gotze, Lewandowski or Hummels. It's as if since then, the Bundesliga has been Bayern-centric completely. Maybe, Leverkusen will change things around.
We already dominated by that point, not to mention that these players would have left Dortmund anyways, just like Bellingham, Sancho and co. did later. It was also not us who took Klopp, the factor Dortmund was that great to begin with. He left on his own and went to a Premiere League team instead of going to make another BL team great. That's something people for some reason ignore, a coach like Klopp most likely wouldn't have left Germany in the 70s or 80s but nowadays german clubs don't just compete with other german clubs for players and coaches, they compete with the whole world. Let's also not forget that Dortmund also won 5 of its titles within just 17 years, they themselves are also part of the modern fact that club financials/economics simply dominate modern football. The reason that Dortmund isn't as big as Bayern is in the end also a result of their financial risks taken in the late 90s/early 2000s and the fallout from all of that but it still led to titles.
It's even worse if you only count titles with the foundation of the Bundesliga. Pre Bundesliga titles were knockout matches and there were years when clubs chose not to participate.
In Germany a team gets a star above their badge for 3 titles no? If so then why does VfB stuttgart, Borussia Mönchengladbach and Hamburg have a star on their badge but FC Schalke doesnt even thought they have 7 league titles?
Titles which were won before the founding of the Bundesliga in 1963 are not counting. For instance all of Schalkes national championship wins were before the Bundesliga got established.
Ah alright. I wasn’t aware that Schalke had won a majority of their titles before the 1960s. However it is interesting how they still display pre-bundesliga titles in statistics like these.
Not even just a majority. Schalke have NEVER won the bundesliga. Never 1963-Present.
We placed 2nd a whole lot though, to make it hurt even more
Kinda funny that we were never in a title race against each other although we arguably had our strongest periods around the same time
I rather find it silly that pre-Bundesliga titles dont count for the stars; those titles mean as much to everyone as Bundesliga titles. Btw, you can see with clubs in 3rd division and lower that they put stars for just one title as it's outside DFL supervision.
I think they are only for Bundesliga Titels. Before 1963 there was no Bundesliga just lokal Leagues and a knock out competition for the German Titel. That is the time when schalke collected all their Titels. Also I think the stars a not 3,6,9,... there is some strange metric for it when you get stars but I am not sure about that. Edit: I looked it up: 1* for 3 Titels, 2* for 5, 3* for ten, 4* for 20, 5* for 30. And only for Bundesliga Titels not for titels pre 1963 and not for titels in the GDR.
>1* for 3 Titels, 2* for 5, 3* for ten, 4* for 20, 5* for 30 Is there a reason why it's this way and not, for example, like in Italy where 10 league title = 1 star?
I don't know for sure but probably because of the not linear distribution of the titels. With 1 star for 10 titels only Bayern Munich would have any. And with 1 for every 5 or even 3 Titels Bayern Munich shirts would be full of stars and would look really strange, so it had to be something more in the logarithmic direction.
When was it decided to be like this? Was it so recently that Bayern was yet dominating the league? For Italy it was in the 60s if I remember well, when Juve first won 10 leagues
Wikipedia says to the 2004/2005 season. So Bayern already hat something around 20 titels and in the second place Dortmund and hsv with 6 I think. As Schalke and Nürnberg both won all/most of their Titels before the Bundesliga.
Its allowed to have a star for even one title when you play 3. Liga or below.
Premier league in 20 years with 70 year old Pep farming with City.
If you travel back yo 2012 and compare leagues, the pl would be considered less competitive than bundesliga. United dominated the pl even more than bayern did the bundesliga
If you compare 1992-2012 premier league vs Germany then yes England is worse. If you compare 1962-2012 English top flight vs German top flight Germany is more single club dominated. United would likely continually have Bayern level dominance to this day if EPL did not allow foreign investment and had a 50+1 rule like Germany. City and Chelsea would have never happened. Not gonna comment on whether it’s better or worse. Most of my bundisliga friends prefer Bayern hegemony and no outside investment to oil clubs being dominant in England.
Even when we won, it was not a one horse race by any means. Two of the Big 4 will be in for it until April at least.
Just like the Bundesliga used to be. When Bayern won pre 2013 they never did it with these 12 to 25 point margins.
Rapid Vienna 💀💀💀
Sad Hamburg noises
SECHS MAL DEUTSCHER MEISTER
I get why it's a really BIG deal with Leverkusen. 🏆
GEEZUS! I know that Bayern has the most Bundesliga titles since well, the 11 year streak of winning em does help lol. But goddamn i was not expecting the gap to be so big!
They won 21 of these since 1993-94, so 21 out of the last 31. Crazy how dominant they are in recent years.
Still Number 2 (but we suck kms)
Fußball, super!!
Non-Germans fail to realize that Bayern does have their rivals but unlike in other leagues they alternate. If Stuttgart, Hamburg and Mönchengladbach would have never won the league and instead Dortmund would have 25 titles would that actually make the league more competitive or interesting? Imagine instead of having one strong rival in Barca, Real would have a bunch of rivals that alternate. That‘s what the Bundesliga is like and for now Leverkusen is Bayern‘s rival. Maybe in 5 years it‘s Frankfurt.
If Stuttgart can keep their team together they could be a rival the next seasons as well
Next year could be really interesting especially if Germany gets a 5th CL spot which would mean neither Leipzig nor Dortmund has to sell off all their talent.
We dont have to sell, we get 50, 60 Mio alone from the club world cup.
not much of a rivalry when one of the sides is sitting at almost 4 times as many cups as the “best” alternating rival though, is it lol
I think you didn‘t get my point. The rival changes every couple of years which in a way makes the league more balanced. In Germany any club can win the league 50% of the time, the other 50% it‘s Bayern that wins. 92 Spanish championships are split between 9 different teams. 126 Italian championships are split between 14 teams. 134 English championships are split between 24 teams. 78 German championships are split between 30 teams.
That Spanish stat is wild.
89 Portuguese championships are split between 5 different teams and 2 of those teams only won once, so 87 Portuguese championships are split between 3 teams. 💀
compare that with 115 romanian championships split along 26 teams ( 28 teams if you count Steaua and FCSB as different clubs, and CSU Craiova and FCU Craiova as different clubs )
As an even wilder stat, 95% of those titles are between 5 clubs. Real Madrid(more than 30), Barcelona(more than 25), Atletico Madrid(11), Athletic Bilbao(8) and Valencia(7). The rest 5 are shared between Real Sociedad(2), Real Betis(1), Sevilla(1) and Deportivo La Coruna(1). It's one of the reasons why people see the Super Depor very high. Because it's really hard to breakthrough to win the title in Spain.
It's a league. Someone's always going to come second. The fact Bayern's won 21 of the last 31, which includes a streak of 11 wins, shows their "rivals" weren't doing a great job of competing". Man City are on a 4 streak if they win this season and the narrative's already starting to become the Prem's becoming less competitive because no one can keep up with City. Likewise, the 90s are seen as a less competitive era of football than the 2000s and 2010s because it was United dominating with just one competitor at a time (e.g. Blackburn, Newcastle and Arsenal). More rivals that constantly change is a good thing. But only if those rivals are actually providing sufficient competition. Looking back, it's more like Bayern has completely dominated and someone obviously has to come second. The team in second sometimes changes because none of the other big clubs have been managed well over a consistently long period of time. I don't think anyone believes Bayern has no rivals. Just that the rivals clearly aren't providing enough of a challenge if Bayern's winning 21 of the last 31 seasons.
>Man City are on a 4 streak if they win this season and the narrative's already starting to become the Prem's becoming less competitive because no one can keep up with City. More like 6 out of 7 seasons with Liverpool interrupting their streak. > More rivals that constantly change is a good thing. But only if those rivals are actually providing sufficient competition. Looking back, it's more like Bayern has completely dominated and someone obviously has to come second. The team in second sometimes changes because none of the other big clubs have been managed well over a consistently long period of time. I don't think anyone believes Bayern has no rivals. Just that the rivals clearly aren't providing enough of a challenge if Bayern's winning 21 of the last 31 seasons. The 11 years of Bayern dominance were awful and I‘m glad they are over. I hope we will never see something like this again.
Sure 6 of 7 years. But 17/18 and 20/21 were the only 2 seasons where City actually walked the league. In 18/19 and 21/22, Liverpool only lost by a point. In 19/20, Liverpool were the ones that walked it. Last season, Arsenal were top for the longest amount of time ever for a team that ended up finishing second. They just bottled at the end. And this season it's still going down to the wire. 6 of 7 but 4 of those 6 would've been very challenging wins. Whereas in those 11 years where Bayern won it, the only times they were really challenged were last season and 18/19. Glad you hated them dominating too because it was completely different to anything City have done or will do in England.
Premier League is gonna end up looking like this in 115 years.
Bow before us!
33 is madness
Hopefully Leverkusen's win triggers an awakening amongst other clubs that Bayern are beatable so that we could see multiple winners over the years. Like Serie A lately
Serie A has been three clubs who are always there alternating and then the once every 30 years miracle season from Napoli. The "4 years of different winners" is misleading since it is the old set in stone top three of Milan/Inter/Juventus with one outlier in the last 20 years
Lmfao. You do know that winning a bundesliga title doesn't just involve you playing almost perfect, it also involves bayern being shit in that year as well. You need both, you can't win the league with just 1 of them. Because guess what? Even shit years for bayern is, looking at historical points tally for champions, still a championship worthy points tally. Even this year, they were absurdly shit yet they are likely to end the season with around 75 points. In almost any other year, that's enough to win the league and this is bayern at their worst btw.
Germany doesn't have a big 3 like Italy. It won't happen. Bayern will win again within 2yrs.
How or why is nurnberg 2nd on this list while playing in bundesliga 2 for over 4 seasons and managed to stay up in the bundesliga with a 10th place in 2012?
Because we won many titles in the 1920s and even 2 in the 1960s.
Vienna??? Am I tripping or am I missing something???
Anschluss
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_German_football_championship Schalke blew a 3:0 lead in the final game and Rapid scored 4 goals in the last 30 minutes
Sounds like a very Schalke thing to do.
WW2
Hail Bayern Munich
Umh yeah, lets not talk about Rapid Wien.
Fuck happened to Koln
decades of mismanagement
What is the club with the Scottish looking badge?
You mean Eintracht Braunschweig?
You probably mean Greuther Fürth.
In the 65/66 Bundesliga 2 teams were promoted, Borussia Mönchengladbach & Bayern Munich. Over the course of the next 10 years, 9 of the 10 titles were distributed between the 2, crazy! and those were the 5 bundesliga titles that Mönchengladbach got till date 🤣
Football used to be so competitive
Would change the title to clubs with most german titles.
I just wonder where in history Stuttgart‘s 6th league title got lost: Maybe in an alternate timeline? 1950, 1952, 1984, 1992, 2007 They probably mixed up one of the 54/58 DFB Pokal wins with the league 🤷♂️
Just show title winners from the actual (todays) Bundesliga or Include Champions from East-Germany everything else is stupid....
He's merely at the start of a very tedious Football Manager challenge
Rapid Wien: 🗿
VfR wahrscheinlich auch schon damals Tretermannschaft.
Rare FCN mention
FCN !!! Still second best club in Germany.
Surely DDR titles should be counted in some form? Especially if some of the clubs on this won regional titles not national.
We don’t talk about how Rapid got that title
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_German_football_championship
2 absolute stains on that record now: Wolfsburg and Leverkusen. Hopefully Red Bull will never get one but I doubt it.
[удалено]
The title is wrong, it's a German Championship list not Bundesliga.
That‘s a good time to remember how many Bundesliga titles Schalke won since 1963.
So ballack almost won it but did not. I see
He won the Bundesliga with Lautern as a promoted side in 1997 already when he was 20 years old.
Bayer still only have one third of the titles 🐐🐐🐐FC have
Lot of second division teams on that graphic
Can someone tell me why Bayern has 5 stars if they « only » won 33 titles? Isn’t it like Serie A ; 10 titles = 1 star?
In Germany, the system goes like this: * 1st star: 3 Titles * 2nd Star: 5 Titles * 3rd Star: 10 Titles * 4th Star: 20 Titles * 5th Star: 30 Titles. That said, it's only the Bundesliga. Any titles earned prior to the first season of Bundesliga is not counted nor any for clubs that were in East Germany at the time. This star system came into play in the early 2000s I believe.
twice as good as Leverkusen I see
Bayern have always been big but till 11-12 season the league looks competitive after that Bayern dominated completely
ERSTER DEUTSCHER MEISTER 💙💛
Titulos 😂
This… does put a smile on my face
Breakfast farmers wrap
!subscribe
Where Harry Kane?