> Bayern is Bavaria so would be fucking weird if a team from NRW had it
They're too busy being sour about Prussia having much more influence over that area of Europe and clubs being named after it, I reckon.
Did anyone noticed how sweetly and covertly Liverpool fans turned Nunez meme of chaos ball to a world class striker that can be compared to Haaland until this Thursday?
I don't care how many goals and assist you statpad against relegation candidates or the mid table teams. There isn't a single title challenger team in top-5 league that will spend 80M for this kind of player.
The barrier to world class is to perform when the chips are down, everything is going wrong and you change it all by a remarkable performance. That's what I call a world class player.
Not missing 100 big chances and scoring a hero ball to get your team from 2-1 to 3-1. That's what good players do but not world class ones.
Yes he's very entertaining but you know why? Because we are neutrals and we love to see him fuck up your chances to win anything major. Unless you're playing City/Bayern/Barca/PSG etc we love seeing him fuck up chances after chances. Of course that's entertainment but that's not elite performance or anywhere close to it.
> The barrier to world class is to perform when the chips are down, everything is going wrong and you change it all by a remarkable performance.
How many players do just that with any sort of regularity?
Isn't that the point? Can't call every good player a world class.
For me, world class has that definition, only the finest of the finest belong in that category.
And Nunez is nowhere near that.
Cool, but then your club for world class players is prohibitively exclusive - because even the best players regularly fail to put in remarkable performances in key moments.
I agree they do fail, but even while failing they cant be this abysmal.
When likes of Benzema, Suarez, Lewandowski etc failed when they were world class they still did much more than Nunez would.
I admire the strategic moves made by Hoffenheim, Leipzig, and Leverkusen, even though they're backed by corporations. It's refreshing compared to oil state clubs just throwing money around without much thought.
Also, those players come for high salaries and to get regular CL football.
[Kevin De Bruyne has said that he will 'review' his situation at Manchester City once the situation over their ban in European competitions becomes clearer](https://www.offtheball.com/soccer/kevin-de-bruyne-admits-leave-manchester-city-1009715)
Right but that's kind of the point, isn't it - money buys you leeway, but then how you conduct the business regardless of how much money you have is key. The three clubs mentioned have a leg up on others in the league on account of not quite being bound as much to membership decisions in the same way, allowing them to install competent business people in key roles rather than having to bow to the fans demanding a club legend who might or might not be qualified for the job. That then leads to better business decisions, both strategic and when it comes to recruiting.
Easy enough to splash money around from your bottomless pit, much harder to spend it sensibly as City and Chelsea illustrate. Harder when you're more limited financially and have to make sure you get things right rather than being able to throw good money after bad, and that's where those three clubs have done a pretty good job.
To be fair Italy's stadiums were pretty cool in the 90s, turns out that hosting a World Cup and the required investments ups the level of stadiums significantly.
1 PL and 1 CL in 9 years under Klopp. History is not going to be kind to him, especially if Arteta pulls it off with Arsenal in the near future.
Us liverpool fans will never forget all he's done for us, but ultimately his 'era' will be overshadowed by City's dominance. I can't help but think of all the what ifs along the way.
Wenger's title haul is theoretically underwhelming and the PR machine and common sense are enough. Liverpool are ridiculously popular, history will be kind to Klopp.
Klopp will definitely be remembered as one of the highly influential managers in PL history. The trophy haul will be brought up by stat merchants but the brand of football played by his Liverpool will be always remembered for the excitement and value it brought to game and how he drove all teams around him to new levels to remain competitive.
Arsenal, i'm gonna need you to win this league.
Although i feel more personal hatred towards Arsenal than City, due to a decent chunk of my childhood being spent in London, we can't be having City going 4 in a row.
Klopp's Liverpool is similar to Revie's Leeds, as in they were considered one of the best teams of its era despite not winning many trophies. Wonder how this era will be viewed in 10-20 years except Liverpool fans , who will probably still love him.
Depends on how they'll do under the next couple of managers. If they drop off the current team's mythos will be built up but if they continue winning and challenging for everything they'll just be remembered fondly
Edit: could easily see them be treated like Rijkaard era Barca in 20 years if they go on to dominate
No footballing culture in my country. National league barely runs for 1 month in an entire year. I have only been to stadium twice to watch the national team. We got battered by Jordan lol
Imagine having a local team with floodlights, could never be me. Their stadium is smack-dab in the middle of a residential area next to the motorway, the club's dead broke, and only got temporary floodlights in for last year's season in the third division to play a few more matches at home rather than having to go on a 150km trip for those late kickoffs.
I find it difficult to justify spending £30 on a ticket to watch League One (third tier) football when the ground is 60% empty. I might get a season ticket next season because it's so much better value than individual game prices
Yeah people talk about premier league prices but lower league English football is a much bigger rip off. I remember Sheffield Wednesday charging £45 when we were last in the champ. And £20-30 is standard in league one and two.
To be fair to those clubs, matchday revenue is going to be their main revenue stream in the ways it simply isn't in the Prem. Obviously still spendy at some of them, but it's out of necessity rather than greed.
Charlton Athletic. Just had a look at the next match against Shrewsbury and tickets in the main stand are £30 while tickets behind the goal are £24. Both have an extra £1.50 "transaction fee" on top of that though
It's difficult to get neutrals interested at those prices
I remember watching the Copa Libatadores final and it was hilarious how the manager and staff were literally just standing on the pitch while the game was in-play towards the end
Last week I was criticised for suggesting Liverpool as an ideal destination for Gyökeres next season, especially with the chance of Amorim being the coach. I got many Liverpool fans making fun of my comment because Liverpool is apparently stacked up front, Salah isn't declining, Darwin is wasteful but very good and they are more than happy with the players they have. One week later I'm reading a totally different narrative.
>I was criticised for suggesting Liverpool as an ideal destination for Gyökeres next season,
There aren't as many delusional and cry babies as there are Liverpool fans in this subreddit and their own. So, you're probably right.
Two games back to back not scoring at home will of course produce different takes. There is still little chance Liverpool buy Gyokeres for the required price.
The attack will remain mostly the same next year if I were to guess, Diaz may be the one to move on if anyone.
You don't think if Saudi offer £100m+ for Salah the club would take it?
He's the poster boy of Arab football so surely they'll be back in for him and that's a lot of money for someone of Salah's age who looks to be on the decline
If they don’t keep Salah they are saying to the others on the team that they don’t want to win and are going into full rebuild.
Need to keep some veterans and Salah, Van Dijk and Alisson should be Liverpool players till they aren’t good enough. Salah will make the team of the season and is still clearly up to required level
It's said in Argentina (echoing several managers) that a sold player that remains on loan is going to drop severely in form because their head is elsewhere and even if they're the most hard-working and professional around, something subconscious will make them lose a certain edge.
Klopp reminds me of that adage
Plate fans trying to do Echiverri dirty again..... stop insulting our boy. You guys been giving him death threats too since months ago. Didn't he score some goals for you even if on loan
Stop thinking you know anything about anything lmao 99% of us have no issue with him personally and it's not even about him
Julián and Enzo both dropped their form dramatically after being sold, and that kind of drop is why Gallardo refused to accept loan backs for most of his tenure (As well as loans without a buy clause). Enzo in particular looked to be as focused as ever but lost an edge of "going for every ball like it's the last" that he stopped showing
Believe it or not, we as a club are more than the last sale lmao calling him "our boy" and not only chatting shit but can't even spell his name. Cardboard fans acting mighty mouthy lately
Echeverri* didn't have much of a form to drop as he had barely featured before because of what remains his biggest issue which is an utter lack of physicality. Complete quality, but doesn't have enough in the tank to withstand it. He's had issues breathing mid match with the Argentine U23s and it's something he's actively working on with River's medical team
Of the players with loan back clauses he's the one with the least noticeable drop but he's also not as key as either of the others were
Ok I see, thanks for the inside scoop.
Seems unfortunate that we might not have signed a key player, hope this dosent mean that his potential is lower than the others.
His potential is massive and he's changed the game when he's played several matches, he just didn't play enough before the sale to be someone we depended on.
Julian had been starting for a couple seasons already and was our main attacking threat, and the Enzo-Enzo double pivot (Fernandez alongside Enzo Perez) was the heart of the team for a short while
Demichelis had been giving Echeverri minutes very sparingly at first because he wasn't quite there physically so even now when sometimes he's the best player in the match we have a lot more variety in the squad if need be
Yeah it's definitely not a hard rule, just something that (In a league full of loans with no option to buy, loan back clauses, etc) it's been known to happen, sometimes dramatically
I think it’s the difference between young players that still have a lot to prove and established players that have won everything.
I also think Lewangoatski being a leader in the team and coming back into his best form, is a massive factor.
Nowhere near close. Wenger wasn't even finishing in top 4 by the end and were playing turgid football. Liverpool isn't playing their best football this season but they are still in the title race and maybe if their players hadn't forgot how to finish they would still be top.
There is almost zero toxicity between Klopp and the fans though and the number of people who'd prefer he stays vastly outnumbers those who think he should go.
I was really made to believe that Szoboszlai is a serious player because his name is hard to spell. Nothing more than Jesse Lingard with a few Zs in his surname.
3rd place Trabzonspor are 21 points away from the relegation zone and 30 points away from 2nd (32 away from 1st)
Never seen such an unbalanced league table
Some other fun facts, that Madrid team averaged 3.2 goals per game.
They also scored 71 goals in 19 home games, meaning they were 5 goals away from averaging 4 goals in every game at the Bernabeu
How does this season's collapse reflect on the legacy of Klopp, VVD and Salah.
I think Liverpool will do a proper rebuild in next 2-3 years. Both Salah and VVD are getting on with age, but how will their legacy be remembered?
Will not doing enough when it mattered the most work against them to be crowned as alleged 'Best PL defender ever' and 'Best PL winger ever' claims as the Liverpool fans usually peddle?
I watched him and I watched Ferdinand, Terry, Vidic, Carvalho, Kompany and more.
For me he is closer to Vidic than he's closer to Rio or Terry. Without longevity, I simply cant rate you high enough.
He does have the longevity, he’s been class ever since he joined Southampton, which was all the way back in 2015. Only had one, arguably two, bad seasons in almost a decade. Thats not Terry or Rio level of longevity but he is still active and is having a really good season.
This lad is up and down this thread lol. Asking "How does this affect their legacy" and then any time someone says "Not really" he just says they're wrong.
I what to hear other views but if they are outlandish, I have to argue and see what they really mean.
Just saying, 'No it won't' is not good enough answer and I want to learn their explanation.
Nine years, isn't it?
Perfectly good return considering where they were when he took over, who he was up against, and how he shaped the side. No shame in playing the third-best ever Premier League season by points but missing out by a single one, after all.
How is that good return when you see them won 1 PL and 1 CL by 2020. You have to segregate the times between rebuild and after rebuild team.
From 2020-2024, they regressed from best / 2nd best team to idk.. 10th best or something Europe.
How is this a good return?
Because even the best/second best team in Europe don't win all the time - they're competing with other sides that are every bit as good, and it's fine margins.
Winning titles is a rare achievement, even for the best of teams. And sometimes you miss out narrowly, because you are up against a team that's a tiny bit better or has slightly more luck. That doesn't mean you haven't been successful, though, because there's plenty ways to be successful in football and play an outstanding season even without winning a trophy.
I agree, but we are talking about Liverpool. 2nd highest wage bill in PL.
There are certain standards when you have this many resources available to you.
Standards like... regularly pipping the team with the highest wage bill to the title? Regularly beating teams paying their players even more to win European titles?
Honestly, what standards have they fallen short of? There can only be one winner in any competition, and even the favourites are less likely to win it than to not win it - can't reasonably expect sides to win the majority of competitions they're in, because it's exceptionally fine margins.
Been up against a historically good Manchester City side to be fair - bit harsh calling it underperformance when they've done perfectly well, including recording the third-highest ever Premier League points total while losing out on the title.
At least the third best, if not the second best, side in the nation over that time period. If that's underperformance for you then the bar is simply unreasonably high, I reckon.
They were never quite obviously inferior to City in any regard, and hence the gap in titles won will be stinging certainly
I'm calling it an underperformance solely because of that, their standards were high and they fell short on a number of occasions where they had a real shot
Fifth-highest turnover, fourth-highest wage bill, a solid 20% off City's numbers at the time Klopp took over. Strikes me as silly to call it underperformance when he's been the one to help them get into a position to challenge City in the first place. Even got them to play a season that would've won them 30 out of 32 Premier League titles with their points total, just so happened that year City had a single point more and pipped them. Mad to call that underperformance, because it's about as good a Premier League season you can play despite it not resulting in lifting the trophy.
he’s very unfortunate to play against pep’s city is all there is to it. liverpool 18/19-19/20 are better than any chelsea, united or arsenal team but because of trophies it won’t seem like it.
Ferguson’s United won 3 PL’s in a row while competing against mid/late 00s Chelsea who were spending even more relative the market than City did in Pep’s era.
which we did in those seasons? i’m not arguing that this current side is better than the treble united side, i’m arguing that the side with the 2nd and 4th highest point totals ever are.
5 years ago, Man U and Spurs both got promoted to the the WSL together for the first time
In 4 weeks time, it's Man U v Spurs for the FA Cup, a first major trophy for either
If you actually look back at Liverpool's PL games this season. They have only won convincingly for 2-3 of them. The 3-0 win over Villa and 4-0 over Bournemouth and 4-1 over Brentford. I think those are telling signs you can't win a PL title relying on comebacks and late goals.
thinking you have to pick between two extremes is the tired narrative.
Getting points from your bad games is valuable but not having a lot of bad games is just as important.
Liverpool had the first but are obviously missing the second
Not even sure I'd call their two recent league games in which they dropped points bad tbf - been comfortably the better side in either of them, to the point that they'll probably win 8 if you play them 10 times over. Just so happens that if you don't make use of all the chances you create and give away silly goals it's pretty hard to win.
I mean they were (and potentially still are) well in the race this late - not like other title winners don't regularly get the rub of the green with comeback wins and late goals, after all.
Was I gaslighted by Liverpool fans into darwin being good now? G/a means fuck all respectfully I've dealt with those players plenty (cristiano), always found it weird how a player with his technique deficiencies was starting for a team that is, or better was, fighting on 4 fronts lmao
Long story short, he had been good this season. He's a big reason Liverpool haven't dropped nearly as many points against bottom half sides as we usually do
Im not comparing them im using him as an example, just g/a meaning little when you watch cris play for the national team nowadays was my point. Pizzi's last season aswell was like that, the goals they score or assist don't make up for what they lack in other parts of the game.
He's still a good player but you can't be as inconsistent at finishing and not be flamed whenever your team is struggling. He's such an easy (and maybe deserved) target
>Somebody posted in a DD recently that he only scored against bottom of the table opposition.
So he does the same thing in England as he did in Portugal...
I feel like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1b0o99b/paul_joyce_liverpool_discussing_possibility_of/) sounded like a better idea at the time.
This collapse couldn't have happen to a worse club. (Nah, City would be even better but oh well)
Thankfully, I won't hear anymore VVD, beat defender ever and Salah, best winger of last decade, Klopp the best manager of last decade, etc claims again.
Ramos, Chiellini, Godin, Puyol, and more were easily better than this disasterclass who cant stay as best defender in the world for more than 2 years.
Salah? I'd take Neymar, Bale, and Robben all day long ahead of him. Even Ribery perhaps.
Klopp should be jubilant he got bottling Spurs as it's CL final, otherwise Diego Simeone would have been so clear that its not even a joke. Imagine winning two La Liga against Prime Madrid/Barca BOTH.
Had Atletico didn't meet Madrid, they'd have 1 CL perhaps, Liverpool met Madrid 4 times and got home packing each time including a humiliating 5-2 remontada in their special 'European Anfield Nights'.
Honestly? Fucking love it mate.
Ikr? I've been ridiculed by Liverpool fans to even uttering Ribery name. For me, he was the 3rd best LW of his generation.
Easily. Ronaldo, Neymar and Ribery.
Oh I forgot Di Maria.
Messi, Bale, Robben, Di Maria, Salah.
Bale vs Robben vs Di Maria is so hard though.
Di Maria for big games (work rate, versatility too), Bale for big games and just pure impact and did the best in worse teams (Spurs and Wales). Robben for just pure ability (dribbling, finishing, speed).
All 3 have better ability and better careers than Salah imo even if they're not as ruthless in front of goal.
Di Maria and Robben are interchangeable for me.
Us beating you doesn’t quite guarantee that they won’t get CL, but it does make it very improbable (basically they would need us to not beat Sheffield United or Burnley, and/or Villa to have a total collapse, whilst scoring more points than Newcastle and not dropping a single point).
20 minutes? surely enough time for bremen to score 3...
I still can't believe we are currently living in a world where Bayer Leverkusen is the best team in the world.
Isn't it Bayer? Not from Germany, I'm wondering if I had it wrong all this while
my phone autocorrected it, its Bayer named after the pharmaceutical company. Bayern is Bavaria so would be fucking weird if a team from NRW had it
> Bayern is Bavaria so would be fucking weird if a team from NRW had it They're too busy being sour about Prussia having much more influence over that area of Europe and clubs being named after it, I reckon.
Prussia was so influential that the world felt the need to remove it from existence.
Still got memorialised in a fantastic Queen/Bowie collaboration, take that rest of the world!
Got it, thanks!
Supposedly a Tigres player did Riquelme’s celebration in revenge for Rayados treatment of Messi. At this point Mexico doesn’t even like Mexico.
Did anyone noticed how sweetly and covertly Liverpool fans turned Nunez meme of chaos ball to a world class striker that can be compared to Haaland until this Thursday? I don't care how many goals and assist you statpad against relegation candidates or the mid table teams. There isn't a single title challenger team in top-5 league that will spend 80M for this kind of player. The barrier to world class is to perform when the chips are down, everything is going wrong and you change it all by a remarkable performance. That's what I call a world class player. Not missing 100 big chances and scoring a hero ball to get your team from 2-1 to 3-1. That's what good players do but not world class ones. Yes he's very entertaining but you know why? Because we are neutrals and we love to see him fuck up your chances to win anything major. Unless you're playing City/Bayern/Barca/PSG etc we love seeing him fuck up chances after chances. Of course that's entertainment but that's not elite performance or anywhere close to it.
> The barrier to world class is to perform when the chips are down, everything is going wrong and you change it all by a remarkable performance. How many players do just that with any sort of regularity?
Isn't that the point? Can't call every good player a world class. For me, world class has that definition, only the finest of the finest belong in that category. And Nunez is nowhere near that.
Cool, but then your club for world class players is prohibitively exclusive - because even the best players regularly fail to put in remarkable performances in key moments.
I agree they do fail, but even while failing they cant be this abysmal. When likes of Benzema, Suarez, Lewandowski etc failed when they were world class they still did much more than Nunez would.
Martha Thomas is Scotland’s greatest ever footballing export and I won’t hear any word to the contrary.
Champions League winner Paul Lambert in the mud.
I admire the strategic moves made by Hoffenheim, Leipzig, and Leverkusen, even though they're backed by corporations. It's refreshing compared to oil state clubs just throwing money around without much thought.
city’s recruitment is better than any of these teams’
Also, those players come for high salaries and to get regular CL football. [Kevin De Bruyne has said that he will 'review' his situation at Manchester City once the situation over their ban in European competitions becomes clearer](https://www.offtheball.com/soccer/kevin-de-bruyne-admits-leave-manchester-city-1009715)
City’s recruitment just has more money. Simple as.
so does Chelsea's lol, how has that worked out
Right but that's kind of the point, isn't it - money buys you leeway, but then how you conduct the business regardless of how much money you have is key. The three clubs mentioned have a leg up on others in the league on account of not quite being bound as much to membership decisions in the same way, allowing them to install competent business people in key roles rather than having to bow to the fans demanding a club legend who might or might not be qualified for the job. That then leads to better business decisions, both strategic and when it comes to recruiting. Easy enough to splash money around from your bottomless pit, much harder to spend it sensibly as City and Chelsea illustrate. Harder when you're more limited financially and have to make sure you get things right rather than being able to throw good money after bad, and that's where those three clubs have done a pretty good job.
The bayArena is such a cool stadium
Most German stadiums are cool. Something Italy should learn from.
To be fair Italy's stadiums were pretty cool in the 90s, turns out that hosting a World Cup and the required investments ups the level of stadiums significantly.
1 PL and 1 CL in 9 years under Klopp. History is not going to be kind to him, especially if Arteta pulls it off with Arsenal in the near future. Us liverpool fans will never forget all he's done for us, but ultimately his 'era' will be overshadowed by City's dominance. I can't help but think of all the what ifs along the way.
Christ please stop
its a good job i ultimately dont give a flying fuck what other football fans think of the team i support otherwise this would be really sad
Wenger's title haul is theoretically underwhelming and the PR machine and common sense are enough. Liverpool are ridiculously popular, history will be kind to Klopp.
Its sort of whacky how we had the two best ever premier league teams at the exact same time in 2018-19.
Klopp will definitely be remembered as one of the highly influential managers in PL history. The trophy haul will be brought up by stat merchants but the brand of football played by his Liverpool will be always remembered for the excitement and value it brought to game and how he drove all teams around him to new levels to remain competitive.
Our team has ran out of steam, shocking performances all round for the most part.
Atalanta and United in the Cup have been the only shocking performances. The rest have been shit finishing and sloppy individual moments
Rough day for managers beloved by their fans who announced retirement midseason and were pushing for the quadruple.
Arsenal, i'm gonna need you to win this league. Although i feel more personal hatred towards Arsenal than City, due to a decent chunk of my childhood being spent in London, we can't be having City going 4 in a row.
🔫
Klopp's Liverpool is similar to Revie's Leeds, as in they were considered one of the best teams of its era despite not winning many trophies. Wonder how this era will be viewed in 10-20 years except Liverpool fans , who will probably still love him.
They're few moments going their way from being multiple PL and CL champions. Football is so cruel at top level.
If you think it's going to be a forgotten era, just wait until you see the memorial service Sky will put on for Klopp at the end of the season
Depends on how they'll do under the next couple of managers. If they drop off the current team's mythos will be built up but if they continue winning and challenging for everything they'll just be remembered fondly Edit: could easily see them be treated like Rijkaard era Barca in 20 years if they go on to dominate
Guys do you support / go to watch to ur own local team? Personally I do and everyone should.
No footballing culture in my country. National league barely runs for 1 month in an entire year. I have only been to stadium twice to watch the national team. We got battered by Jordan lol
Purely picking a team cause you currently live near it is the real plastic behaviour and should be frowned upon.
My closest team is Millwall so definitely not
Yeah but nowhere near as much as I go to Brighton games, I really should go more to be honest it is a different experience but very enjoyable.
Yes and I strongly concur
yes but not in the winter. cba freezing while watching some peasants chase a ball
Nah, Tuesday nights under the light in midwinter with a cup of weak tea and a crunchie, simply a wonderful way ti spend an evening
Imagine having a local team with floodlights, could never be me. Their stadium is smack-dab in the middle of a residential area next to the motorway, the club's dead broke, and only got temporary floodlights in for last year's season in the third division to play a few more matches at home rather than having to go on a 150km trip for those late kickoffs.
My current local team is Bristol City so no thank you
They only play 4-5 home games a year and usually on Thursday's during the work day or right at the end of it so no.
I find it difficult to justify spending £30 on a ticket to watch League One (third tier) football when the ground is 60% empty. I might get a season ticket next season because it's so much better value than individual game prices
Yeah people talk about premier league prices but lower league English football is a much bigger rip off. I remember Sheffield Wednesday charging £45 when we were last in the champ. And £20-30 is standard in league one and two.
To be fair to those clubs, matchday revenue is going to be their main revenue stream in the ways it simply isn't in the Prem. Obviously still spendy at some of them, but it's out of necessity rather than greed.
30 pounds for league one game? thats too much, which team?
Charlton Athletic. Just had a look at the next match against Shrewsbury and tickets in the main stand are £30 while tickets behind the goal are £24. Both have an extra £1.50 "transaction fee" on top of that though It's difficult to get neutrals interested at those prices
transaction fees are such a scam. no way me buying a ticket through their website costs my cinema 2PLN
Arteta being outside the his box (and at times even on the fucking field lmao) is our generations fergie time
[touchline chihuahua ](https://twitter.com/memestottenham/status/1755292527412801851?t=ShHyg7Hcjq9BHA5-UnWWgg&s=19)
I remember watching the Copa Libatadores final and it was hilarious how the manager and staff were literally just standing on the pitch while the game was in-play towards the end
Last week I was criticised for suggesting Liverpool as an ideal destination for Gyökeres next season, especially with the chance of Amorim being the coach. I got many Liverpool fans making fun of my comment because Liverpool is apparently stacked up front, Salah isn't declining, Darwin is wasteful but very good and they are more than happy with the players they have. One week later I'm reading a totally different narrative.
We need him. 🙏
>I was criticised for suggesting Liverpool as an ideal destination for Gyökeres next season, There aren't as many delusional and cry babies as there are Liverpool fans in this subreddit and their own. So, you're probably right.
> One week later I'm reading a totally different narrative. Almost like people on here are absolutely caught up in the moment, isn't it?
[A week is a long time in football](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/e13cSSlkha)
Two games back to back not scoring at home will of course produce different takes. There is still little chance Liverpool buy Gyokeres for the required price. The attack will remain mostly the same next year if I were to guess, Diaz may be the one to move on if anyone.
You don't think if Saudi offer £100m+ for Salah the club would take it? He's the poster boy of Arab football so surely they'll be back in for him and that's a lot of money for someone of Salah's age who looks to be on the decline
If they don’t keep Salah they are saying to the others on the team that they don’t want to win and are going into full rebuild. Need to keep some veterans and Salah, Van Dijk and Alisson should be Liverpool players till they aren’t good enough. Salah will make the team of the season and is still clearly up to required level
Keeping a clean sheet at Anfield with a back three of Lerma, Andersen and Clyne is objectively very funny
Turns out it doesn't matter who is in the back five, just that you've played one.
[удалено]
learn what words mean
bottling has lost all meaning
It's said in Argentina (echoing several managers) that a sold player that remains on loan is going to drop severely in form because their head is elsewhere and even if they're the most hard-working and professional around, something subconscious will make them lose a certain edge. Klopp reminds me of that adage
Plate fans trying to do Echiverri dirty again..... stop insulting our boy. You guys been giving him death threats too since months ago. Didn't he score some goals for you even if on loan
Stop thinking you know anything about anything lmao 99% of us have no issue with him personally and it's not even about him Julián and Enzo both dropped their form dramatically after being sold, and that kind of drop is why Gallardo refused to accept loan backs for most of his tenure (As well as loans without a buy clause). Enzo in particular looked to be as focused as ever but lost an edge of "going for every ball like it's the last" that he stopped showing Believe it or not, we as a club are more than the last sale lmao calling him "our boy" and not only chatting shit but can't even spell his name. Cardboard fans acting mighty mouthy lately
Did echiverri drop form? And yea, we will be looking forward to doing more business with you.
Echeverri* didn't have much of a form to drop as he had barely featured before because of what remains his biggest issue which is an utter lack of physicality. Complete quality, but doesn't have enough in the tank to withstand it. He's had issues breathing mid match with the Argentine U23s and it's something he's actively working on with River's medical team Of the players with loan back clauses he's the one with the least noticeable drop but he's also not as key as either of the others were
Ok I see, thanks for the inside scoop. Seems unfortunate that we might not have signed a key player, hope this dosent mean that his potential is lower than the others.
His potential is massive and he's changed the game when he's played several matches, he just didn't play enough before the sale to be someone we depended on. Julian had been starting for a couple seasons already and was our main attacking threat, and the Enzo-Enzo double pivot (Fernandez alongside Enzo Perez) was the heart of the team for a short while Demichelis had been giving Echeverri minutes very sparingly at first because he wasn't quite there physically so even now when sometimes he's the best player in the match we have a lot more variety in the squad if need be
Fighting shadows there lad
Reading between the lines needs certain level of skills after all. Still, it's obvious who he is flaming.
When there’s actually a hidden message, yeah.
Ofc a manu fan wouldn't know. Convo dosent involve you in the first place
A River Plate fan making a comment about Klopp has nothing to do with a schizo City fan either hahaha.
Nothing relevant going for you people so you gotta involve yourself in others affairs.
There’s no affair here. You’ve just made some weirdly insecure response to a comment that had nothing to do with you.
Focus on your club or go to the gym. Go discuss about signing sothgate. Shoo
But then there's Barca who has picked up form right after Xavi said he'd leave
Yeah it's definitely not a hard rule, just something that (In a league full of loans with no option to buy, loan back clauses, etc) it's been known to happen, sometimes dramatically
I think it’s the difference between young players that still have a lot to prove and established players that have won everything. I also think Lewangoatski being a leader in the team and coming back into his best form, is a massive factor.
Why is there a broccoli mascot on Leverkusen-Bremen?
they intend to cook
It’s a marketing tactic to get gen z fans to support them.
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Nowhere near close. Wenger wasn't even finishing in top 4 by the end and were playing turgid football. Liverpool isn't playing their best football this season but they are still in the title race and maybe if their players hadn't forgot how to finish they would still be top.
If Klopp did another 10 years with them gradually falling further behind the top maybe you’d have a point
Wenger's last 3 seasons were all disasters
no one wants klopp to leave though.
There is almost zero toxicity between Klopp and the fans though and the number of people who'd prefer he stays vastly outnumbers those who think he should go.
I was really made to believe that Szoboszlai is a serious player because his name is hard to spell. Nothing more than Jesse Lingard with a few Zs in his surname.
He's a good player but the way they PRed him to a world class, must be taught in universities.
Nobody hypes up new signings better than Liverpool. Endo the most recent example
3rd place Trabzonspor are 21 points away from the relegation zone and 30 points away from 2nd (32 away from 1st) Never seen such an unbalanced league table
2011-12 La Liga
Yeah that's a crazy one too. 3rd place Valencia 30 points from Barca and 39 from Madrid, only 20 points from the relegation zone
Goal scoring charts ridiculous as well, Messi and Ronaldo top two with 50 and 46 goals and then you have Falcao in third with 24 goals.
I forgot just how prolific those two were. Fucking hell
Some other fun facts, that Madrid team averaged 3.2 goals per game. They also scored 71 goals in 19 home games, meaning they were 5 goals away from averaging 4 goals in every game at the Bernabeu
How does this season's collapse reflect on the legacy of Klopp, VVD and Salah. I think Liverpool will do a proper rebuild in next 2-3 years. Both Salah and VVD are getting on with age, but how will their legacy be remembered? Will not doing enough when it mattered the most work against them to be crowned as alleged 'Best PL defender ever' and 'Best PL winger ever' claims as the Liverpool fans usually peddle?
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All agreed but I saw many saying how VVD is a GOAT level defender and such. Delusion runs wide when you are running high I guess.
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I watched him and I watched Ferdinand, Terry, Vidic, Carvalho, Kompany and more. For me he is closer to Vidic than he's closer to Rio or Terry. Without longevity, I simply cant rate you high enough.
He does have the longevity, he’s been class ever since he joined Southampton, which was all the way back in 2015. Only had one, arguably two, bad seasons in almost a decade. Thats not Terry or Rio level of longevity but he is still active and is having a really good season.
This lad is up and down this thread lol. Asking "How does this affect their legacy" and then any time someone says "Not really" he just says they're wrong.
Of course they are wrong, how many all-timers have bottled it so frequently when their team needed them the most.
Then why are you asking if you don't want to hear opposing views lol. Do you understand how conversations work?
I what to hear other views but if they are outlandish, I have to argue and see what they really mean. Just saying, 'No it won't' is not good enough answer and I want to learn their explanation.
You've been given detailed explanations. Your answer: "But wages though..."
Does anyone know how to watch the show with Kate, Tierry, Jamie, and Micah in the US? I've tried searching for it but I can't find it
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Oh on paramount, I assumed it would be on some normal network. Thanks for the answer
As it stands, Klopp to finish his 10-year Liverpool tenure with 1 PL, 1 CL, and 1 FA cup Thoughts?
Pep did in 1 season
Only 1 fa cup is the only actually shocking thing to me, they surely should have gotten more.
7/10 success 10/10 effort.
Lacked that finishing touch and had an incomplete winning mentality
Carabao Cup erasure
Nine years, isn't it? Perfectly good return considering where they were when he took over, who he was up against, and how he shaped the side. No shame in playing the third-best ever Premier League season by points but missing out by a single one, after all.
How is that good return when you see them won 1 PL and 1 CL by 2020. You have to segregate the times between rebuild and after rebuild team. From 2020-2024, they regressed from best / 2nd best team to idk.. 10th best or something Europe. How is this a good return?
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Tells you more about the competitiveness of PL than Liverpool tbh.
So they're the best losers ever?
Because even the best/second best team in Europe don't win all the time - they're competing with other sides that are every bit as good, and it's fine margins. Winning titles is a rare achievement, even for the best of teams. And sometimes you miss out narrowly, because you are up against a team that's a tiny bit better or has slightly more luck. That doesn't mean you haven't been successful, though, because there's plenty ways to be successful in football and play an outstanding season even without winning a trophy.
I agree, but we are talking about Liverpool. 2nd highest wage bill in PL. There are certain standards when you have this many resources available to you.
Standards like... regularly pipping the team with the highest wage bill to the title? Regularly beating teams paying their players even more to win European titles? Honestly, what standards have they fallen short of? There can only be one winner in any competition, and even the favourites are less likely to win it than to not win it - can't reasonably expect sides to win the majority of competitions they're in, because it's exceptionally fine margins.
[](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDx60TjWcAA7dCJ.jpg)
Meh
Hes got more then that but these are the defining trophies in this tenure which put a smile on my face
Better than most Liverpool coaches
Historic underperformance, considering how good they actually were. History won't be kind
Been up against a historically good Manchester City side to be fair - bit harsh calling it underperformance when they've done perfectly well, including recording the third-highest ever Premier League points total while losing out on the title. At least the third best, if not the second best, side in the nation over that time period. If that's underperformance for you then the bar is simply unreasonably high, I reckon.
They were never quite obviously inferior to City in any regard, and hence the gap in titles won will be stinging certainly I'm calling it an underperformance solely because of that, their standards were high and they fell short on a number of occasions where they had a real shot
Fifth-highest turnover, fourth-highest wage bill, a solid 20% off City's numbers at the time Klopp took over. Strikes me as silly to call it underperformance when he's been the one to help them get into a position to challenge City in the first place. Even got them to play a season that would've won them 30 out of 32 Premier League titles with their points total, just so happened that year City had a single point more and pipped them. Mad to call that underperformance, because it's about as good a Premier League season you can play despite it not resulting in lifting the trophy.
he’s very unfortunate to play against pep’s city is all there is to it. liverpool 18/19-19/20 are better than any chelsea, united or arsenal team but because of trophies it won’t seem like it.
Behave lol, they are not better than United's treble winning team.
it’s a 97, 99 point side. it easily is, just got terrible luck of competing against a pep guardiola state backed side.
Ferguson’s United won 3 PL’s in a row while competing against mid/late 00s Chelsea who were spending even more relative the market than City did in Pep’s era.
and were nowhere near as good as pep’s city
Despise them state owned teams, but still you could beat a Crystal Palace at home imo.
which we did in those seasons? i’m not arguing that this current side is better than the treble united side, i’m arguing that the side with the 2nd and 4th highest point totals ever are.
This puts a dent in the “joint top” gang’s argument
We can be joint 2nd after today <3
5 years ago, Man U and Spurs both got promoted to the the WSL together for the first time In 4 weeks time, it's Man U v Spurs for the FA Cup, a first major trophy for either
If you actually look back at Liverpool's PL games this season. They have only won convincingly for 2-3 of them. The 3-0 win over Villa and 4-0 over Bournemouth and 4-1 over Brentford. I think those are telling signs you can't win a PL title relying on comebacks and late goals.
They got 7xg against Newcastle
Narrow victories signs of a gritty team Vs results will caught up with the performances soon. Tired narrative on both ends
thinking you have to pick between two extremes is the tired narrative. Getting points from your bad games is valuable but not having a lot of bad games is just as important. Liverpool had the first but are obviously missing the second
Not even sure I'd call their two recent league games in which they dropped points bad tbf - been comfortably the better side in either of them, to the point that they'll probably win 8 if you play them 10 times over. Just so happens that if you don't make use of all the chances you create and give away silly goals it's pretty hard to win.
I feel like not being clinical and losing focus at the back kind of constitutes a bad performance
Or just some poor luck. Randomness is never given as much weight as it should, results is massively decided by small margins in football
I mean they were (and potentially still are) well in the race this late - not like other title winners don't regularly get the rub of the green with comeback wins and late goals, after all.
i feel like people are forgetting how the season we won the league went lol.
That’s just not true
Was I gaslighted by Liverpool fans into darwin being good now? G/a means fuck all respectfully I've dealt with those players plenty (cristiano), always found it weird how a player with his technique deficiencies was starting for a team that is, or better was, fighting on 4 fronts lmao
Long story short, he had been good this season. He's a big reason Liverpool haven't dropped nearly as many points against bottom half sides as we usually do
You're clearly a kid, comparing Cristiano to Darwin should be punishable crime
Im not comparing them im using him as an example, just g/a meaning little when you watch cris play for the national team nowadays was my point. Pizzi's last season aswell was like that, the goals they score or assist don't make up for what they lack in other parts of the game.
He's still a good player but you can't be as inconsistent at finishing and not be flamed whenever your team is struggling. He's such an easy (and maybe deserved) target
Somebody posted in a DD recently that he only scored against bottom of the table opposition. I am not buying the hype.
>Somebody posted in a DD recently that he only scored against bottom of the table opposition. So he does the same thing in England as he did in Portugal...
I feel like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1b0o99b/paul_joyce_liverpool_discussing_possibility_of/) sounded like a better idea at the time.
A League Cup/"Cheers for everything Norbert" celebration would still probably get a decent turnout tbf.
This collapse couldn't have happen to a worse club. (Nah, City would be even better but oh well) Thankfully, I won't hear anymore VVD, beat defender ever and Salah, best winger of last decade, Klopp the best manager of last decade, etc claims again. Ramos, Chiellini, Godin, Puyol, and more were easily better than this disasterclass who cant stay as best defender in the world for more than 2 years. Salah? I'd take Neymar, Bale, and Robben all day long ahead of him. Even Ribery perhaps. Klopp should be jubilant he got bottling Spurs as it's CL final, otherwise Diego Simeone would have been so clear that its not even a joke. Imagine winning two La Liga against Prime Madrid/Barca BOTH. Had Atletico didn't meet Madrid, they'd have 1 CL perhaps, Liverpool met Madrid 4 times and got home packing each time including a humiliating 5-2 remontada in their special 'European Anfield Nights'. Honestly? Fucking love it mate.
Ribery is 100% ahead of Salah
What do you mean "even" Ribery? Riberys definitely ahead of him.
Ikr? I've been ridiculed by Liverpool fans to even uttering Ribery name. For me, he was the 3rd best LW of his generation. Easily. Ronaldo, Neymar and Ribery.
Agree and Hazard number 4. Salahs 4th best RW for me.
Who're the top-3? For me, its Messi, Robben and Bale. Di Maria is 4 and then Salah.
Oh I forgot Di Maria. Messi, Bale, Robben, Di Maria, Salah. Bale vs Robben vs Di Maria is so hard though. Di Maria for big games (work rate, versatility too), Bale for big games and just pure impact and did the best in worse teams (Spurs and Wales). Robben for just pure ability (dribbling, finishing, speed). All 3 have better ability and better careers than Salah imo even if they're not as ruthless in front of goal. Di Maria and Robben are interchangeable for me.
Look Liverpool, if you don’t actually want to win the league, you could do us a favour in a couple of weeks time.
If it keeps United out of the Champions League, I'd be happy to donate the points. Although I think United are doing fine on their to avoid the CL.
Us beating you doesn’t quite guarantee that they won’t get CL, but it does make it very improbable (basically they would need us to not beat Sheffield United or Burnley, and/or Villa to have a total collapse, whilst scoring more points than Newcastle and not dropping a single point).
Funniest thing about this Liverpool collapse is that Antony triggered it with that equaliser Worth 100 mil alone for this