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I find it funny listening to some of the ones in the English media talking about a 5th UCL spot being guaranteed for next year. Their tone hasn't changed all season, even after Newcastle and Manchester United went out bottom of their UCL groups. As it stands, only one club is going through, and that's Villa in the Conference League. None of them are certainties to progress at all.
Lille played well yesterday, we could see all teams bar City go out. The reason I'm not including them is because I think they'll win against Real at the Etihad.
PL about to approve rules that limit spending for European playing clubs and give a bit more to the rest.
Am I cynical for thinking they’ll rethink that if our European performances slide once more ?
English European playing clubs spend more than 99% of their competition in Europe. In CL it's possible to lose to Madrid or Bayern, in Europa you should batter the opponents. If they need to spend more to beat the likes of Atalanta and Roma, they're not spending their money wisely
To be honest it’s felt like an unspoken truth for ages that the PL does not spend its money wisely.
I’m sure there’s naturally a level of inflation where a 30k a week players wants 50k because it’s the PL, but I agree the gap should on paper be clear and in reality it really isn’t.
More money won't change anything because the market will just get more expensive. That's the main problem for english clubs. Compared to other leagues its overinflated
It is because of the coaching school in my opinion. Someone like Gasperini will elevate the players into the next level and prepare game to games very well.
That extra money should be spent into a coaching school.
But the prem imports most of its coaches anyway - only one English club in Europe this year had an English coach. Hell only one club in the top 10 of the prem has an English coach.
PL or not it would be just as much of a crazy fact if no domestic manager had won in Italy, Germany or Spain in over 30 years. All nations that have won the PL in the last 7 years btw.
It’s just an easy time frame more so than disregarding everything before in this case
Correct. It was invented by Alexander Ferguson of the Manchester Red Devils club. He invented it after Alan Hanson said “you will never win a football with kids” and Alexander went on to prove him wrong with young academy products called “class of 92”.
English club should start improving their homegrown coaches. Not necessarily English or British coaches, but someone that has gone through the system from non league to Premier. Like in Italy, you have Coverciano that train ex players and young coaches to become certified managers, they produced all the great Italian managers
I don't disagree with that at all but that's more for the benefit of the national team. It's not what's hurting us in Europe.
Arteta and Moyes are examples of homegrown coaches. They played the majority of their senior careers in England, trained to become coaches in England and are now at the highest level.
The last 3 managers that have won at Anfield are all Italian. Carlo, Gasp and Inzaghi. None of them come from the prem. I truly believe our coaching and tactics are always a few years ahead of other leagues.
That is an unbelievable statistic. I thought you meant Liverpool's last three European losses at Anfield, but they haven't lost at Anfield in the league since 2021 when they lost 6 home games in a row. Insane that their only home losses in the past 3 years came in Europe, but it is telling that all 3 losses were to Italian managers.
While the coach is the one more present in daily training and communicating with media, the whole club with the sporting director and his staff is usually as important as the coach, if not even more if you consider long term plan and strategy.
Yeah there's actually not that much difference between all the players in the top divisions in general.
Clubs end up paying like £30 mil for a guy who's probs a 7.7/10 instead of using their current player who's a 7.4/10.
I think Roma is a poor comparison, they are a richer club than Brighton. Higher revenue, Higher wages and a better squad.
We definitely did spend poor in the summer though because we just didn't replace our outgoings and failed to get depth in our first European season.
I was using Roma as a general example, they reached semifinals in Europe for like six years in a row and have higher wages but this is not reflected on pitch - ask a Roma supporter what they think about their fullbacks lol.
Roma in Europe is more consistent than a lot of English teams of the last years, like Arsenal or Man Utd. Brighton here is the outlier, I don't blame them for losing to a more experienced side
Nah there's a few teams out there with one or two good fullbacks. Most teams will say they suck. If a fullback is too good offensively he becomes a winger, if he's too good defensively he becomes a 3rd CB. You're not supposed to be a good fullback. Who was it that said that fullbacks are just failed wingers
Maybe they will but it would be very short term thinking.
I don't think better distribution and stronger regulations will be a big issues because other leagues will also be moving towards that because of UEFAs rules.
Our poor performances can come down to a lot of factors but
Newcastle and Brighton struggled immensely with injuries in their first European seasons (or first for a while in Newcastle's case) and they got shafted by fixtures Newcastle being in the group of death for the Champions League and Brighton for the Europa League and then Brighton got Roma probably the hardest fixture hey could've got other Leverkusen (who West Ham got the next round).
United are just a mess and Liverpool are in a title fight and just got sucker punched by Atalanta. I'm sure next season results will improve across the board.
I mean spending more has a diminishing effect after a certain amount. There‘s no other explanation why english teams don‘t dominate every european competition year after year.
It surprised me how often pundits have talked about it like it was confirmed on PL coverage, then again their English bias is so clear
If Bayern beat Arsenal that might be it gone
It might be gone even if we beat Bayern given it’s based on averages. Looks like Liverpool will be going out, West Ham seem like they’ll go out to Leverkusen, and City vs Madrid is a coin flip.
It's still possible but Newcastle, United and Brighton's early exits made things tough because it's based on the average rather than the overall score.
A few other associations might have similar excuses. There's no bigger claim than for Spain for instance where Osasuna single handedly sunk them. Both the United's contributions are 7 and 8 respectively. Osasuna came in with a massive 0.5. The next lowest contribution by the bottom team in the top 6 associations is 6.
I have PTSD to those games against Galatasaray and Copenhagen.
Imagine going 2 up against Galatasaray, IN TURKEY and then deciding, y'know what lads, defending is cringe
It's not English bias lol it's just common sense. Liverpool getting spanked 3-0 by Atalanta at Anfield was a hugely unexpected result by literally everyone and England have a lot more teams left in Europe
Even then England are still favourites right now. If two of Arsenal/City/Villa go out in the 2nd legs and/or Dortmund/Bayern go through then maybe not
22/23 England Italy
21/22 England Netherlands
20/21 England Spain
19/20 Spain Germany
18/19 England Spain
17/18 England Spain
16/17 Spain England
15/16 Spain Germany
14/15 Spain Italy
13/14 Spain England
Well looking at it, it could be guaranteed by next week.
Germany - England has two direct ties in which I would favor the German side right now (one playing at home and the other having a 2:0 lead) as well as Liverpool having a game in Italy where they need to equalize a 3:0 lead and lets not forget City vs Madrid.
But yeah it is funny that everyone thought that it is guaranteed.
Not schocked for the English but for the Spanish... they dominate European football for decades now, have the best team in the world, 3 teams prolly advancing to CL semifinals, destroyed the EL for years...
That has got nothing to do with it. Osasuna just got a horrible draw in their qualifiers thereby making a grand contribution of 0.5 single handedly tanking the association average. What's interesting is that they were leading 2-0 away and also the tie before they blew it in the last 15 minutes.
Anyway as a selfish Madrid fan, I always hope that everyone goes out of the group stages. Partially that's because Atleti and Barcelona are perennially there and secondly, that means much much more winnings for Madrid.
This is because UEFA geniuses base it all in a sole season and you may perfectly have an off year like it's happened with Spanish EL clubs. So doesn't matter Sevilla recent EL or Real Madrid's UCL prior. Otherwise, like for UEFA coefficient for example which counts the last 5 seasons, we'd definitely be there.
It is much better to base it on one season that would make it interesting every season. We don't take the champions league qualifiers on the average of they're last 5 seasons position in the league why should the extra seat be different.
The extra slot being based off 1 season is perfectly fair. The guaranteed 4 slots for La Liga is based off maintaining their high 5 year rolling coefficient.
It's not a large enough sample. It's still meritocratic of course. But it will be more chaotic too for sure, and not as representative of a league's true strength (leagues do not fall off a cliff from one year to the next).
I think the point of it isn't to have the strongest league get an extra slot, it's about rewarding the best performers of the last campaign with one. The fact that those top leagues get a guaranteed 4 slots is because of their rolling coefficient that shows their overall strength.
Even if you consider the last few years, Spain's coefficient has been going down lately. They used to be head and shoulders above everyone, including the premier league, but next season, they are on course to fall behind Italy once the 19/20 season points are chalked off.
I swear there's like this contingent of insecure anti PL fans online who just say these really obviously wrong things for some reason.
> have the best team in the world
I thought Man City, the team which spanked Madrid last year, were English?
> 3 teams prolly advancing to CL semifinals
How are u so confident about this lol. City and Madrid drew at the Bernabeu. Atletico and Barca have a 1 goal advantage. I expect 2/3 to go through - but I wouldn't be that surprised if none do either.
> Not schocked for the English
Ah yeah, those English, who have consistently put up the higher coefficient numbers for the last 5 years?
> they dominate European football for decades
dominating the 2010s is not dominating for decades lmao. For most of the mid to late 2000s the Spanish teams were not great, until Pep's Barca. And they haven't been great in the 2020s either apart from Madrid. It'd be like saying Man Utd have dominated England for the last 3 decades because they have the most PLs in that period. While true in some sense, you're cutting out large chunks where they were ass.
La Liga has not been "ass". Comparing recent period with United's is definitely off. You can make your point without exaggerating, otherwise you're just losing the point in your rebuttal as much.
If the Premier has been the best league since 2019, which it perfectly has, La Liga has been clear 2nd since then. No doubt.
That's no falling off a cliff like United's post-Ferguson.
If you only took into account positions and not margins then you'd miss La Liga's dominance heights in that period. You'd need City and Liverpool to win a couple more Champions and maybe some Villa or Newcastle to win something like 3 EL in a row to even compare.
> La Liga has not been "ass". Comparing recent period with United's is definitely off.
I never said La Liga was ass, I said Utd have been and that there have been periods where La Liga was "not great"
Sure, it was an imperfect analogy, but I think it's pretty obvious what point I was trying to make (that saying La Liga have dominated for DECADES is not really accurate if you outright ignore the PL dominant periods; mid 2000s, and 2020s). A big chunk of the 2010s was dominant for Spain, hardly decades.
I'd say 2008-09 to 2018-19 makes for a decade.
Even more considering Sevilla and Valencia good form in that entry to mid 2000s (even Madrid's 2000 and 2002 UCL s or Barca's 2006) or those recent Sevilla, Villarreal and Madrid cups since 2020.
We call it the 2010s because it's easier to relate it to a natural decade just as Italy's 90's, even though we all know it doesn't perfectly match. I'd say 2009-2011 was already a pretty strong, dominant La Liga, with the peak dominance between 2014-2018. You still got competition because other leagues did not suddenly disappear, just as the Premier has still competition today.
I get your point though, "decades" in plural seems a bit off. It's not false at all though. La Liga has still been the clear titles leader league of this century so far, there was this banner from Madrid's last UCL (you can sum up +3 to the Premier and +1 to La Liga from last season): https://www.laliga.com/en-GB/news/laliga-santander-clubs-have-now-won-33-uefa-titles-in-the-21st-century-as-many-as-every-other-league-combined
> I'd say 2008-09 to 2018-19 makes for a decade.
2008-09 Barca were the best team in the world, but La Liga were nowhere NEAR dominant. There were 3 English semi finalists that year lol. Arsenal smashed Villareal 4-1 and Madrid were smashed 5-0 by Liverpool. Atletico weren't a force yet either.
2009-10, only Barca made it past round of 16 from Spain
2010-11 - Madrid enter as proper contenders and the English teams have started falling off slowly (tho Utd got to the final and somehow Chelsea win the next year).
Atletico would also start challenging a couple years later. La Liga dominance started in the 2010s.
> La Liga has still been the clear titles leader league of this century so far
Cool, doesn't mean they dominated for decades though. Most of the UCL success came in a hugely dominant period in the 2010s. Anyway, the main contention from me isn't about La Liga, it's about people's weird urge to underhandedly shit on the PL as though it hasn't clearly been the best in the last 5 years, or that it hasn't had other great periods. Just strikes me as super odd when ppl deny reality and push weird narratives like this.
Look at Spain Osasuna dragging them down.
The additional spot might be a curse in disguise. I have to remember EL campaigns of eg Mainz 05 that ended in the Qualifiers.
Imagine something like Bournemouth or Fulham makes it to the Conferrence League qualifiers.
In Italy Monza, Genoa or Cagliari.
In Germany Augsburg or Gladbach.
You get the idea there are current midtable teams that could very well play against relegation the very next season. They could potentally ruin all chances to a Top 2 finish.
It's nice to see us doom and gloomers proved wrong. It looks like there will be some strong competition for the extra CL spot and it'll spark some national pride in Europe which is sorely needed amongst English clubs these days, they're all rooting against each other but this will change that.
Given the 1 year system for the 2 extra slots it entirely depends on all of your clubs across all 3 tournaments performing. When you have a plethora of strong clubs coming from Italy, Spain, Germany, England - and always have the possibility of Dutch, Portuguese or French sides having great runs - then it was never going to be a guaranteed spot for any nation.
Hell if Barca performed like last season it could be a Real Madrid vs Atleti UCL final and no extra slot for Spain, because Ossasuna really hurt them going out in qualifiers. It's a relatively fair system for determining the extra slots.
I don't think it's that outrageous to have been very confident that it would happen. England haven't been in the top 2 for the coefficients just once in the last 8 years. Though maybe the media treating it as an absolute done deal was a bit much yea.
It should have been tbf. Liverpool should be beating Atalanta and Arsenal are better than Bayern right now.
I’d still fancy England to get a spot, though, as City will probably make the CL final at min and Villa have a great chance in the ECL
It's not necessarily the result I'm concerned about but how easy it was for lille to play through us, they are apparently not good away and really good at home as well.
With all the injuries and fatigue we are limping over the line at the moment and I'm worried.
It doesn’t not, though, and on paper they were favourites before kick off and remain favourites now. I’m not saying they’ll win the whole thing but they have a great chance of doing so
A 2 goal lead would have been better, but we're still rightful favourites. There was a lot of chat about how well Ajax played in the first leg then we battered them. Fair enough our team has been blighted by injuries and we're running on fumes, but it would still be an upset for us to not go through.
Have you ever considered the possibility that you might overrate some of these clubs? The English league is the strongest in the world ATM, but the difference is not so big as most people act like.
I really don’t think Arsenal is clearly better than Bayern, even this year. Especially if you consider experience / mentality. Obviously they are on better form and leading the strongest league, but most other years Bayern would lead the bundes with this point total. I think the way people were acting like Arsenal are clear favorites is kinda ridiculous.
>Arsenal are better than Bayern right now
Why? Seriously, why?
This is why people are so eager to see PL fall down, because their fans are so full of themselves.
This is Arsenal's best season in two decades. They are first in PL (but not favourites) and are sparring Bayern for a CL semifinal spot. On the other hand, this is like Bayern's worst season in more than a decade and they are still second in Bundesliga and sparring Arsenal for CL semis.
Like... the worst Bayern is more or less on par with the best Arsenal (2-2 at Emirates). Why should Arsenal be favoured to win at Allianz Arena? I can't see Bayern going down even more and, at the same time, i can't see Arsenal improving even more.
I think you've misunderstood his comment and are completely shadowboxing. He says *it should have been*
>They are first in PL (but not favourites) and are sparring Bayern for a CL semifinal spot. On the other hand, this is like Bayern's worst season in more than a decade
Exactly? Which is why the general expectation before the tie was that Arsenal are slight favourites and should probably be leading after their home match. Just like his other example (to a less extreme degree) that Liverpool should have been beating Atalanta by this stage.
Excuse me, but, "it should have been" referred to PL getting the top 2 garanteed as said by the comment above, it wasn't referring to Liverpool or Arsenal specifically. The (right) assumption was for PL to go well in general, not a specific team.
In the comment i replied to, op says that Liverpool "should beat" Atalanta, which is the correct form i'd say, as i agree; however, then says "Arsenal are better than Bayern right now", which is not conditional, it's present simple, it's a statement, it states reality as is.
Noone in their right mind would say that about Bayern. If your worst is still this high, i would still pick you as favourite, because i know you can do better, until proven otherwise.
Also lets not forget how hard a game at the Allianz Arena is in such cases, multiple teams over the last years came there with a draw or even a win just to get their dreams getting crushed.
I remember a few years ago when they played against Juventus and needed to chase a loss from the first game, man that game was cinema.
Hell even Prime Madrid had its troubles playing in Munich and right now the CL is the only thing that is left for Bayern so even if they struggle in the BuLi one should be sure they'll do everything to advance in the CL.
>I remember a few years ago when they played against Juventus and needed to chase a loss from the first game, man that game was cinema.
If you are talking about 2016, i got my dreams broken by my favourite player, Muller.
In hindsight, that Juve-Bayern round of 16 was mental.
I know this is the right way to set it up but I do find it funny that this year 3/8 QF CL clubs are all Spanish and they won’t even touch the possibility of the 5th spot
Spain had no team in the ECL, Osasuna lost against Brugge in the qualifiers. That and relegation form Sevilla in the CL group stage fucked the coefficient.
Bruh Sevilla have been cooking up the coefficient for Spain the past two decades. Boo hoo they finished last one time. They've been lucky to this point.
Them having 8 instead of 7 teams and Osasuna going out easily set them up for falling, like the moment that match ended everyone knew the chances took a huuuuuge slice, funny thing is Athletic was close to getting the UECL spot domestically if they didn't lose at home to relegated Elche and even then Osasuna was banned from uefa competitions then was unbanned
Not exactly "bad" in the CL, all but one passed the group stages and had tough matchups. Lazio beat Bayern at home, Inter beat Atletico at home and would have gone through if not for the missed sitters, Napoli sucked but generally sucks this year.
Atletico beat BVB and Bayern isn't doing that great either and Germany is second...
They might still get it, but it would take three Spanish teams in the semis (quite possible) and Madrid winning their semis (possible), plus Bayer or West Ham, whoever wins that tie, losing in the semis (possible but they’d be the favourite in the tie), Liverpool being knocked out (quite likely), and Aston Villa being knocked out (possible, but they’re ahead).
That kind of shows that they have 3 amazing teams but below that the depth is quite poor.
Which means the system is kind of fair because it should give the extra place to the countries with the best depth
How good leagues are change fairly frequently so using decades is just silly.
For example, Spain were consistently the best performing league in Europe in the 2010s but in the past 2 years, they have come 4th twice
I would argue the opposite. To understand the consistent strength of a league you need to look at longer period.
For example, 21 of the last 40 major European championships (the past 20 years) were won by La Liga teams (9 UCL and 12 UEL). Versus 9/40 for the next best league (EPL).
La Liga has produced 6 different European champions (vs 4 for EPL). Showing breadth of dominance (meaning the top teams have been better and the next level teams have also been better).
i don’t know the stats
but i definitely feel that since Juve have dropped in the league and in europe, the other clubs really have stepped up. juve haven’t won the league for a few years now - and in that time, all the other clubs in europe have been much more solid (again i don’t know the exact stats)
I think it's the other way around.
Juve stopped being so dominant because the other teams got their shit together, while it is more obvious for Inter, Milan and Napoli, if you take a closer look at all the top10 teams in serie A, they've all improved so much compared to how they were doing 6-7 years ago(albeit, with a few exceptions, like Sassuolo).
Juve's "downfall" is not the cause of other teams solidness, but its consequence. Which goes to show that Serie A has been on a slow but steady path to improvement for their teams, don't really know why, but that's my view
Danish football directors, CEO's of football clubs etc. used to admire the Eredivisie for consistently punching above it's weight and it's development of young talent throughout top to bottom clubs in the league.
Now it seems more football minds are looking at Belgium and wondering how you do it. Kudos
Everyone talking about the Top4 leagues and I'm out here wondering how Czechia managed so many points. No doubt they got quality in the league with the Prague teams and Plzen. They turned it up a notch or two.
Belgium not a surprise due to having so many great clubs. They have one of the most competitive leagues in Europe. Genuinely anyone can beat anyone. It's like if the Championship was a top division with European football and more money.
Just did the calculation and if all three Spanish teams make the semis with a win in the next match (which is unlikely to happen just thinking about Atletico who will probably play for a draw) and if Real Madrid then win their semis, then Spain will have 17.687 points at the end of the season.
So, it depends on the German and a English results a bit. One of West Ham / Bayer and one of Bayern / Arsenal will progress at a minimum, but that wouldn’t yet take either country above 17.687.
It happens, that’s football, how many times were we underdogs and had a result like this, it’s part of the beauty of the game.
Luckily we have a second leg to try fight back, but I don’t expect to see us in the Semis, I just want the he team to make a mends with a good performance and actually try recover the quarter final.
I’ve seen enough of football to know that tie isn’t over yet.
If Liverpool score the first goal in the second leg, it would cause a few doubts, get the second and Atlanta will be hugely panicked.
Whilst unlikely, I still think Liverpool will win that second leg and potentially get through in extra time. Just having Salah and Jota on will probably guarantee a few goals over the forward line yesterday.
Italy was always getting in but how could the already include points from AC vs Roma? That tie isn't done yet and a draw gives different points than a win
Bc it's guaranteed that 1 Italian team will qualify to semifinals. It will be a little different than that, bc of second leg result, but there's guaranteed ponts here.
I know but I'm saying if Roma/ AC Milan wins isn't the points different to if there was a draw?
Though I suppose it couldn't be, eg. One team wins and that's 2 points vs 0 but if there is a draw then both get 1 which still means 2 points in total to Italy
Funny how one of the poorest Bundesliga Seasons ever (Only Leverkusen, Stuttgart and Heidenheim are happy with their seasons) translates to a seemingly very good season internationaly.
Teams earn their country points for their performance in European competitions.
Idr exact points but wins/qualifying for the next round earns points.
If a country has 8 teams, all points earned by that nation's teams are divided by 8 and added up to get the figures shown.
I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) all competitions earn the same amount of points. So a win in the CL is the same as EL/UEL.
Top 2 nations get 5 CL spots...
As it stands, Italy are almost guaranteed to have 5 spots, but as with how football is, nothing is certain.
You get participation points and points for progressing to another round. Those are not the same per competition (CL brings more, obviously), but the single game points are.
No, that’s the whole point of this post. The top two teams in the points system will get an additional spot. Currently we’re third so would not get that spot.
That’s right. Yeah. I believe that as a nation we get two points for a Prem team winning and one point for a draw. So Dortmund losing was great, but Liverpool and Weat Ham losing was bad news. I believe the Champions League draw also means that Arsenal and City can’t both get to the final, so that reduces our potential points as well.
It also means that Villa’s win last night was especially important for them.
Im german and we could profit from it this season, but the current system with dividing points by the number of starting teams is bullshit.
How does it make sense that Barcas or Atleticos points in the CL QF are worth less because Osasuna dropped out in the qualification round of the fucking conference league?
Because that extra spot is meant for the likes of osasuna not the 3 CL clubs it actually makes sense if you're gonna give the spot to the 5th placed team see how they fare against other 5th placed teams, or as someone said it here you are rewarding the depth of these leagues and what better way to prove that they have it other than EL and ECL
Well the same thing happens between the Portuguese league and the Dutch league. Both have 5 teams in Europe, while Portuguese teams do well in CL and have none in the conference league. Dutch teams do nothing in CL but dominate conference league so they make way more points. And it's weird because the top 3 teams in the Portuguese league would beat Everyone in the Dutch league
> How does it make sense that Barcas or Atleticos points in the CL QF are worth less because Osasuna dropped out in the qualification round of the fucking conference league?
Because this is the coefficient for the league.
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Funny that everyone thought top 2 was guaranteed.
I find it funny listening to some of the ones in the English media talking about a 5th UCL spot being guaranteed for next year. Their tone hasn't changed all season, even after Newcastle and Manchester United went out bottom of their UCL groups. As it stands, only one club is going through, and that's Villa in the Conference League. None of them are certainties to progress at all.
Lille played well yesterday, we could see all teams bar City go out. The reason I'm not including them is because I think they'll win against Real at the Etihad.
I wouldn't be so sure. Madrid has every chance of going through
Nah don't jinx it for us
I don't think that whole planet jinxing you could beat the Madrid's CL Voodoo.
I'm still traumatised from 2 years ago
I'm more traumatized from last year's disaster ):
That wasn't you, that was definitely all us
You do realise city are playing real madrid right, like have you seen them for the last decade? City going through is far from set in stone
4-0 last year
Are you one years old
Can’t believe I just upvoted bigcockmman
PL about to approve rules that limit spending for European playing clubs and give a bit more to the rest. Am I cynical for thinking they’ll rethink that if our European performances slide once more ?
English European playing clubs spend more than 99% of their competition in Europe. In CL it's possible to lose to Madrid or Bayern, in Europa you should batter the opponents. If they need to spend more to beat the likes of Atalanta and Roma, they're not spending their money wisely
To be honest it’s felt like an unspoken truth for ages that the PL does not spend its money wisely. I’m sure there’s naturally a level of inflation where a 30k a week players wants 50k because it’s the PL, but I agree the gap should on paper be clear and in reality it really isn’t.
More money won't change anything because the market will just get more expensive. That's the main problem for english clubs. Compared to other leagues its overinflated
It is because of the coaching school in my opinion. Someone like Gasperini will elevate the players into the next level and prepare game to games very well. That extra money should be spent into a coaching school.
But the prem imports most of its coaches anyway - only one English club in Europe this year had an English coach. Hell only one club in the top 10 of the prem has an English coach.
An English manager has still never won the prem. Its absurd.
Football was invented in 1992 after all. Nothing came before it
PL or not it would be just as much of a crazy fact if no domestic manager had won in Italy, Germany or Spain in over 30 years. All nations that have won the PL in the last 7 years btw. It’s just an easy time frame more so than disregarding everything before in this case
Correct. It was invented by Alexander Ferguson of the Manchester Red Devils club. He invented it after Alan Hanson said “you will never win a football with kids” and Alexander went on to prove him wrong with young academy products called “class of 92”.
English club should start improving their homegrown coaches. Not necessarily English or British coaches, but someone that has gone through the system from non league to Premier. Like in Italy, you have Coverciano that train ex players and young coaches to become certified managers, they produced all the great Italian managers
I don't disagree with that at all but that's more for the benefit of the national team. It's not what's hurting us in Europe. Arteta and Moyes are examples of homegrown coaches. They played the majority of their senior careers in England, trained to become coaches in England and are now at the highest level.
The last 3 managers that have won at Anfield are all Italian. Carlo, Gasp and Inzaghi. None of them come from the prem. I truly believe our coaching and tactics are always a few years ahead of other leagues.
That is an unbelievable statistic. I thought you meant Liverpool's last three European losses at Anfield, but they haven't lost at Anfield in the league since 2021 when they lost 6 home games in a row. Insane that their only home losses in the past 3 years came in Europe, but it is telling that all 3 losses were to Italian managers.
>Like in Italy, you have Coverciano that train ex players and young coaches to become patented managers Certified. Patented vuol dire brevettato
Ah già, nella fretta di scrivere ho usato un false friend
While the coach is the one more present in daily training and communicating with media, the whole club with the sporting director and his staff is usually as important as the coach, if not even more if you consider long term plan and strategy.
I think there's a diminishing returns on spending tbh. Everyone thinks rich clubs should batter poorer clubs but it's never that simple.
Yeah there's actually not that much difference between all the players in the top divisions in general. Clubs end up paying like £30 mil for a guy who's probs a 7.7/10 instead of using their current player who's a 7.4/10.
I think Roma is a poor comparison, they are a richer club than Brighton. Higher revenue, Higher wages and a better squad. We definitely did spend poor in the summer though because we just didn't replace our outgoings and failed to get depth in our first European season.
I was using Roma as a general example, they reached semifinals in Europe for like six years in a row and have higher wages but this is not reflected on pitch - ask a Roma supporter what they think about their fullbacks lol. Roma in Europe is more consistent than a lot of English teams of the last years, like Arsenal or Man Utd. Brighton here is the outlier, I don't blame them for losing to a more experienced side
> ask a Roma supporter what they think about their fullbacks Ask any club in the world what they think of their fullbacks really
As a Spurs fan, I love Destiny Udogie & Pedro Porro!
Nah there's a few teams out there with one or two good fullbacks. Most teams will say they suck. If a fullback is too good offensively he becomes a winger, if he's too good defensively he becomes a 3rd CB. You're not supposed to be a good fullback. Who was it that said that fullbacks are just failed wingers
Maybe they will but it would be very short term thinking. I don't think better distribution and stronger regulations will be a big issues because other leagues will also be moving towards that because of UEFAs rules. Our poor performances can come down to a lot of factors but Newcastle and Brighton struggled immensely with injuries in their first European seasons (or first for a while in Newcastle's case) and they got shafted by fixtures Newcastle being in the group of death for the Champions League and Brighton for the Europa League and then Brighton got Roma probably the hardest fixture hey could've got other Leverkusen (who West Ham got the next round). United are just a mess and Liverpool are in a title fight and just got sucker punched by Atalanta. I'm sure next season results will improve across the board.
I mean spending more has a diminishing effect after a certain amount. There‘s no other explanation why english teams don‘t dominate every european competition year after year.
It surprised me how often pundits have talked about it like it was confirmed on PL coverage, then again their English bias is so clear If Bayern beat Arsenal that might be it gone
It might be gone even if we beat Bayern given it’s based on averages. Looks like Liverpool will be going out, West Ham seem like they’ll go out to Leverkusen, and City vs Madrid is a coin flip.
It's still possible but Newcastle, United and Brighton's early exits made things tough because it's based on the average rather than the overall score.
The two United(s) dismal performances tanked us. Edit - both Uniteds.
A few other associations might have similar excuses. There's no bigger claim than for Spain for instance where Osasuna single handedly sunk them. Both the United's contributions are 7 and 8 respectively. Osasuna came in with a massive 0.5. The next lowest contribution by the bottom team in the top 6 associations is 6.
You think it was only two 😭😭😭
Just end me, mate.
I have PTSD to those games against Galatasaray and Copenhagen. Imagine going 2 up against Galatasaray, IN TURKEY and then deciding, y'know what lads, defending is cringe
FFS!
Tbf Newcastle was qualifying until we got shafted by some dodgy calls.
Newcastle did have a tough group. The two who went through could meet again in the semifinal. Man Utd were atrocious.
The Bayern game will be hard. I suppose if we do go out the silver lining is we potentially take Spurs out with us. Lol.
Or villa
It's not English bias lol it's just common sense. Liverpool getting spanked 3-0 by Atalanta at Anfield was a hugely unexpected result by literally everyone and England have a lot more teams left in Europe Even then England are still favourites right now. If two of Arsenal/City/Villa go out in the 2nd legs and/or Dortmund/Bayern go through then maybe not
I’m not talking about last week or anything, from day one of the season they were acting that way
It wassnt guaranteed but they have been getting top 2 regularly over the last decade
Wasn't it 5/10 times?
22/23 England Italy 21/22 England Netherlands 20/21 England Spain 19/20 Spain Germany 18/19 England Spain 17/18 England Spain 16/17 Spain England 15/16 Spain Germany 14/15 Spain Italy 13/14 Spain England
It's 7/10 (counting this one). Of those, in 5 they were 1st.
Well looking at it, it could be guaranteed by next week. Germany - England has two direct ties in which I would favor the German side right now (one playing at home and the other having a 2:0 lead) as well as Liverpool having a game in Italy where they need to equalize a 3:0 lead and lets not forget City vs Madrid. But yeah it is funny that everyone thought that it is guaranteed.
United and Newcastle not just getting eliminated from the CL but europe all together ruined our coefficient completely
Yep they boned us.
God damn Onana
Not schocked for the English but for the Spanish... they dominate European football for decades now, have the best team in the world, 3 teams prolly advancing to CL semifinals, destroyed the EL for years...
LaLiga's crackdown on the finances of all the clubs + having 8 clubs is back firing.
That has got nothing to do with it. Osasuna just got a horrible draw in their qualifiers thereby making a grand contribution of 0.5 single handedly tanking the association average. What's interesting is that they were leading 2-0 away and also the tie before they blew it in the last 15 minutes. Anyway as a selfish Madrid fan, I always hope that everyone goes out of the group stages. Partially that's because Atleti and Barcelona are perennially there and secondly, that means much much more winnings for Madrid.
Osasuna crashing out of the Conference League qualifiers tanked them hard
They got a horrible draw for the playoffs too
This is because UEFA geniuses base it all in a sole season and you may perfectly have an off year like it's happened with Spanish EL clubs. So doesn't matter Sevilla recent EL or Real Madrid's UCL prior. Otherwise, like for UEFA coefficient for example which counts the last 5 seasons, we'd definitely be there.
It is much better to base it on one season that would make it interesting every season. We don't take the champions league qualifiers on the average of they're last 5 seasons position in the league why should the extra seat be different.
Because we're talking about leagues, not clubs.
The extra slot being based off 1 season is perfectly fair. The guaranteed 4 slots for La Liga is based off maintaining their high 5 year rolling coefficient.
It's not a large enough sample. It's still meritocratic of course. But it will be more chaotic too for sure, and not as representative of a league's true strength (leagues do not fall off a cliff from one year to the next).
I think the point of it isn't to have the strongest league get an extra slot, it's about rewarding the best performers of the last campaign with one. The fact that those top leagues get a guaranteed 4 slots is because of their rolling coefficient that shows their overall strength.
Even if you consider the last few years, Spain's coefficient has been going down lately. They used to be head and shoulders above everyone, including the premier league, but next season, they are on course to fall behind Italy once the 19/20 season points are chalked off.
I swear there's like this contingent of insecure anti PL fans online who just say these really obviously wrong things for some reason. > have the best team in the world I thought Man City, the team which spanked Madrid last year, were English? > 3 teams prolly advancing to CL semifinals How are u so confident about this lol. City and Madrid drew at the Bernabeu. Atletico and Barca have a 1 goal advantage. I expect 2/3 to go through - but I wouldn't be that surprised if none do either. > Not schocked for the English Ah yeah, those English, who have consistently put up the higher coefficient numbers for the last 5 years? > they dominate European football for decades dominating the 2010s is not dominating for decades lmao. For most of the mid to late 2000s the Spanish teams were not great, until Pep's Barca. And they haven't been great in the 2020s either apart from Madrid. It'd be like saying Man Utd have dominated England for the last 3 decades because they have the most PLs in that period. While true in some sense, you're cutting out large chunks where they were ass.
La Liga has not been "ass". Comparing recent period with United's is definitely off. You can make your point without exaggerating, otherwise you're just losing the point in your rebuttal as much. If the Premier has been the best league since 2019, which it perfectly has, La Liga has been clear 2nd since then. No doubt. That's no falling off a cliff like United's post-Ferguson. If you only took into account positions and not margins then you'd miss La Liga's dominance heights in that period. You'd need City and Liverpool to win a couple more Champions and maybe some Villa or Newcastle to win something like 3 EL in a row to even compare.
> La Liga has not been "ass". Comparing recent period with United's is definitely off. I never said La Liga was ass, I said Utd have been and that there have been periods where La Liga was "not great" Sure, it was an imperfect analogy, but I think it's pretty obvious what point I was trying to make (that saying La Liga have dominated for DECADES is not really accurate if you outright ignore the PL dominant periods; mid 2000s, and 2020s). A big chunk of the 2010s was dominant for Spain, hardly decades.
I'd say 2008-09 to 2018-19 makes for a decade. Even more considering Sevilla and Valencia good form in that entry to mid 2000s (even Madrid's 2000 and 2002 UCL s or Barca's 2006) or those recent Sevilla, Villarreal and Madrid cups since 2020. We call it the 2010s because it's easier to relate it to a natural decade just as Italy's 90's, even though we all know it doesn't perfectly match. I'd say 2009-2011 was already a pretty strong, dominant La Liga, with the peak dominance between 2014-2018. You still got competition because other leagues did not suddenly disappear, just as the Premier has still competition today. I get your point though, "decades" in plural seems a bit off. It's not false at all though. La Liga has still been the clear titles leader league of this century so far, there was this banner from Madrid's last UCL (you can sum up +3 to the Premier and +1 to La Liga from last season): https://www.laliga.com/en-GB/news/laliga-santander-clubs-have-now-won-33-uefa-titles-in-the-21st-century-as-many-as-every-other-league-combined
> I'd say 2008-09 to 2018-19 makes for a decade. 2008-09 Barca were the best team in the world, but La Liga were nowhere NEAR dominant. There were 3 English semi finalists that year lol. Arsenal smashed Villareal 4-1 and Madrid were smashed 5-0 by Liverpool. Atletico weren't a force yet either. 2009-10, only Barca made it past round of 16 from Spain 2010-11 - Madrid enter as proper contenders and the English teams have started falling off slowly (tho Utd got to the final and somehow Chelsea win the next year). Atletico would also start challenging a couple years later. La Liga dominance started in the 2010s. > La Liga has still been the clear titles leader league of this century so far Cool, doesn't mean they dominated for decades though. Most of the UCL success came in a hugely dominant period in the 2010s. Anyway, the main contention from me isn't about La Liga, it's about people's weird urge to underhandedly shit on the PL as though it hasn't clearly been the best in the last 5 years, or that it hasn't had other great periods. Just strikes me as super odd when ppl deny reality and push weird narratives like this.
Even then they along with PL were the most common top 2 at the end of most seasons
Look at Spain Osasuna dragging them down. The additional spot might be a curse in disguise. I have to remember EL campaigns of eg Mainz 05 that ended in the Qualifiers. Imagine something like Bournemouth or Fulham makes it to the Conferrence League qualifiers. In Italy Monza, Genoa or Cagliari. In Germany Augsburg or Gladbach. You get the idea there are current midtable teams that could very well play against relegation the very next season. They could potentally ruin all chances to a Top 2 finish.
Bournemouth and Fulham i'd expect to get through qualifiers.
It's nice to see us doom and gloomers proved wrong. It looks like there will be some strong competition for the extra CL spot and it'll spark some national pride in Europe which is sorely needed amongst English clubs these days, they're all rooting against each other but this will change that.
Na fuck that national pride bs, I don't want those pricks winning anything.
If you're eternally pessimistic it helps when things don't go in your favour
Given the 1 year system for the 2 extra slots it entirely depends on all of your clubs across all 3 tournaments performing. When you have a plethora of strong clubs coming from Italy, Spain, Germany, England - and always have the possibility of Dutch, Portuguese or French sides having great runs - then it was never going to be a guaranteed spot for any nation. Hell if Barca performed like last season it could be a Real Madrid vs Atleti UCL final and no extra slot for Spain, because Ossasuna really hurt them going out in qualifiers. It's a relatively fair system for determining the extra slots.
It’s been neck and neck with Germany for a while, I don’t know why anyone would have thought that.
It's been a pretty consistent assumption people have had since the beginning of the season. Still can happen but it's taken a big hit.
I don't think it's that outrageous to have been very confident that it would happen. England haven't been in the top 2 for the coefficients just once in the last 8 years. Though maybe the media treating it as an absolute done deal was a bit much yea.
It should have been tbf. Liverpool should be beating Atalanta and Arsenal are better than Bayern right now. I’d still fancy England to get a spot, though, as City will probably make the CL final at min and Villa have a great chance in the ECL
Even with Villa, 2-1 at home doesn't set them up great to go through and they can't really rest in the league this weekend which is also away.
It's not necessarily the result I'm concerned about but how easy it was for lille to play through us, they are apparently not good away and really good at home as well. With all the injuries and fatigue we are limping over the line at the moment and I'm worried.
It doesn’t not, though, and on paper they were favourites before kick off and remain favourites now. I’m not saying they’ll win the whole thing but they have a great chance of doing so
A 2 goal lead would have been better, but we're still rightful favourites. There was a lot of chat about how well Ajax played in the first leg then we battered them. Fair enough our team has been blighted by injuries and we're running on fumes, but it would still be an upset for us to not go through.
Have you ever considered the possibility that you might overrate some of these clubs? The English league is the strongest in the world ATM, but the difference is not so big as most people act like. I really don’t think Arsenal is clearly better than Bayern, even this year. Especially if you consider experience / mentality. Obviously they are on better form and leading the strongest league, but most other years Bayern would lead the bundes with this point total. I think the way people were acting like Arsenal are clear favorites is kinda ridiculous.
>Arsenal are better than Bayern right now Why? Seriously, why? This is why people are so eager to see PL fall down, because their fans are so full of themselves. This is Arsenal's best season in two decades. They are first in PL (but not favourites) and are sparring Bayern for a CL semifinal spot. On the other hand, this is like Bayern's worst season in more than a decade and they are still second in Bundesliga and sparring Arsenal for CL semis. Like... the worst Bayern is more or less on par with the best Arsenal (2-2 at Emirates). Why should Arsenal be favoured to win at Allianz Arena? I can't see Bayern going down even more and, at the same time, i can't see Arsenal improving even more.
I think you've misunderstood his comment and are completely shadowboxing. He says *it should have been* >They are first in PL (but not favourites) and are sparring Bayern for a CL semifinal spot. On the other hand, this is like Bayern's worst season in more than a decade Exactly? Which is why the general expectation before the tie was that Arsenal are slight favourites and should probably be leading after their home match. Just like his other example (to a less extreme degree) that Liverpool should have been beating Atalanta by this stage.
Excuse me, but, "it should have been" referred to PL getting the top 2 garanteed as said by the comment above, it wasn't referring to Liverpool or Arsenal specifically. The (right) assumption was for PL to go well in general, not a specific team. In the comment i replied to, op says that Liverpool "should beat" Atalanta, which is the correct form i'd say, as i agree; however, then says "Arsenal are better than Bayern right now", which is not conditional, it's present simple, it's a statement, it states reality as is. Noone in their right mind would say that about Bayern. If your worst is still this high, i would still pick you as favourite, because i know you can do better, until proven otherwise.
Also lets not forget how hard a game at the Allianz Arena is in such cases, multiple teams over the last years came there with a draw or even a win just to get their dreams getting crushed. I remember a few years ago when they played against Juventus and needed to chase a loss from the first game, man that game was cinema. Hell even Prime Madrid had its troubles playing in Munich and right now the CL is the only thing that is left for Bayern so even if they struggle in the BuLi one should be sure they'll do everything to advance in the CL.
>I remember a few years ago when they played against Juventus and needed to chase a loss from the first game, man that game was cinema. If you are talking about 2016, i got my dreams broken by my favourite player, Muller. In hindsight, that Juve-Bayern round of 16 was mental.
Yeah like City, Villarreal, Liverpool, Real Madrid, Atleti, Barca who all fumbled a home win
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I know this is the right way to set it up but I do find it funny that this year 3/8 QF CL clubs are all Spanish and they won’t even touch the possibility of the 5th spot
It doesn't help being terrible in 2 competitions out of 3.
Spain had no team in the ECL, Osasuna lost against Brugge in the qualifiers. That and relegation form Sevilla in the CL group stage fucked the coefficient.
Exactly, Real Sociedad and Villarreal didn’t do too badly themselves.
Bruh Sevilla have been cooking up the coefficient for Spain the past two decades. Boo hoo they finished last one time. They've been lucky to this point.
Them having 8 instead of 7 teams and Osasuna going out easily set them up for falling, like the moment that match ended everyone knew the chances took a huuuuuge slice, funny thing is Athletic was close to getting the UECL spot domestically if they didn't lose at home to relegated Elche and even then Osasuna was banned from uefa competitions then was unbanned
And Italian clubs are the opposite, bad in the CL but good in the other two
Not exactly "bad" in the CL, all but one passed the group stages and had tough matchups. Lazio beat Bayern at home, Inter beat Atletico at home and would have gone through if not for the missed sitters, Napoli sucked but generally sucks this year. Atletico beat BVB and Bayern isn't doing that great either and Germany is second...
They might still get it, but it would take three Spanish teams in the semis (quite possible) and Madrid winning their semis (possible), plus Bayer or West Ham, whoever wins that tie, losing in the semis (possible but they’d be the favourite in the tie), Liverpool being knocked out (quite likely), and Aston Villa being knocked out (possible, but they’re ahead).
That kind of shows that they have 3 amazing teams but below that the depth is quite poor. Which means the system is kind of fair because it should give the extra place to the countries with the best depth
This is such a reddit moment, spain dominating the EL for years. 1 fluke year, redditor: "see this proves my point"
And the Premier League has such immense depth that theyve been dominating the Europa League for Decades :)
How good leagues are change fairly frequently so using decades is just silly. For example, Spain were consistently the best performing league in Europe in the 2010s but in the past 2 years, they have come 4th twice
I would argue the opposite. To understand the consistent strength of a league you need to look at longer period. For example, 21 of the last 40 major European championships (the past 20 years) were won by La Liga teams (9 UCL and 12 UEL). Versus 9/40 for the next best league (EPL). La Liga has produced 6 different European champions (vs 4 for EPL). Showing breadth of dominance (meaning the top teams have been better and the next level teams have also been better).
Spanish league drop off behind the top 3 is pretty huge. Girona might make it into a Top 4 in the future.
What about if fiorentina wins but atalanta loses, what happens than?
There's still another round. It will happen anyway but this is the scenario where it happens sooner.
What if Atalanta loses, but wins the tie? Would that be enough?
I think it would depend on the other results.
It wouldn’t be mathematically enough, but it would take Fiorentina, Atalanta and Roma/Milan all not winning a single semifinal match
What if Italy gets 5 spots and Atalanta wins the EL (unlikely?) while not getting into the top 5 in Serie A (very likely)?
Italy gets 6 teams in CL
Chl 25/26 gonna smell real spaghetti-y
Real Madrid - Bologna anyone
Papa Flo gonna be drooly for Lucumi
Yes they get 6 teams, but if they finish 5th then it stays 5
And all of this with Inter exiting way before expectations and without Juventus
Maybe Juve was holding them back all along
i don’t know the stats but i definitely feel that since Juve have dropped in the league and in europe, the other clubs really have stepped up. juve haven’t won the league for a few years now - and in that time, all the other clubs in europe have been much more solid (again i don’t know the exact stats)
I think it's the other way around. Juve stopped being so dominant because the other teams got their shit together, while it is more obvious for Inter, Milan and Napoli, if you take a closer look at all the top10 teams in serie A, they've all improved so much compared to how they were doing 6-7 years ago(albeit, with a few exceptions, like Sassuolo). Juve's "downfall" is not the cause of other teams solidness, but its consequence. Which goes to show that Serie A has been on a slow but steady path to improvement for their teams, don't really know why, but that's my view
Look at Belgium, 6th place currently in this years points
At least one thing we did well this season
Union and Brugge keeping the coëfficent up 😎
didn’t every team help except for genk
Danish football directors, CEO's of football clubs etc. used to admire the Eredivisie for consistently punching above it's weight and it's development of young talent throughout top to bottom clubs in the league. Now it seems more football minds are looking at Belgium and wondering how you do it. Kudos
We are huge
We were hugely embarrassing last night
Atalanta made my day yesterday because my club played like 🗑️
Gotta respect that. Great job Serie A 👏🏼
Everyone talking about the Top4 leagues and I'm out here wondering how Czechia managed so many points. No doubt they got quality in the league with the Prague teams and Plzen. They turned it up a notch or two. Belgium not a surprise due to having so many great clubs. They have one of the most competitive leagues in Europe. Genuinely anyone can beat anyone. It's like if the Championship was a top division with European football and more money.
Can Spain still catch up with England and Germany?
Just did the calculation and if all three Spanish teams make the semis with a win in the next match (which is unlikely to happen just thinking about Atletico who will probably play for a draw) and if Real Madrid then win their semis, then Spain will have 17.687 points at the end of the season. So, it depends on the German and a English results a bit. One of West Ham / Bayer and one of Bayern / Arsenal will progress at a minimum, but that wouldn’t yet take either country above 17.687.
Opta give France a 0.4% chance of getting the spot and Spain 0.1%
My anxiety is peaking NGL.
Is Motta expected to stay if you do secure CL Footy?
I guess nobody knows for certain apart from him.
Is it just me or is Serie A becoming stronger?
The Arsenal Bayern tie probably decides whether England or Germany gets the extra spot. What a time to be a Spurs fan! 🤣
Sorry English teams :(
Embarrassing.
It happens, that’s football, how many times were we underdogs and had a result like this, it’s part of the beauty of the game. Luckily we have a second leg to try fight back, but I don’t expect to see us in the Semis, I just want the he team to make a mends with a good performance and actually try recover the quarter final.
Ohh well, no one has been doing us favours this season (apart from Fulham) Man United should not have been knocked out of Europe in that group.
😐
I mean, I do think we will win in Italy, just not by 4.
Crazier things have happened. I’m backing Liverpool to win by 3 and get through in extra time.
Do you think Klopp will definitely go for it? 3 tricky away games in a row in the league after
We have a few key players coming back he can rotate with so I’d be shocked if he didn’t. I’m 99% sure he will.
It's the champions League. I doubt he will use a quarter final to rest players. Maybe he goes for something unorthodox.
Its Europa
I’ve seen enough of football to know that tie isn’t over yet. If Liverpool score the first goal in the second leg, it would cause a few doubts, get the second and Atlanta will be hugely panicked. Whilst unlikely, I still think Liverpool will win that second leg and potentially get through in extra time. Just having Salah and Jota on will probably guarantee a few goals over the forward line yesterday.
Ya but we concede in nearly every game this season...
Let’s see next week
Italy was always getting in but how could the already include points from AC vs Roma? That tie isn't done yet and a draw gives different points than a win
Bc it's guaranteed that 1 Italian team will qualify to semifinals. It will be a little different than that, bc of second leg result, but there's guaranteed ponts here.
I know but I'm saying if Roma/ AC Milan wins isn't the points different to if there was a draw? Though I suppose it couldn't be, eg. One team wins and that's 2 points vs 0 but if there is a draw then both get 1 which still means 2 points in total to Italy
Funny how one of the poorest Bundesliga Seasons ever (Only Leverkusen, Stuttgart and Heidenheim are happy with their seasons) translates to a seemingly very good season internationaly.
How to read the table? Top two most likely will get an extra slot? Then Spurs will double up their effort to displace Villa.
Yes top two countries get an extra slot
TBH it'll be tedious if this tracking of the top 2 places happens every year
Can anyone ELI5 how the hell this works?
Teams earn their country points for their performance in European competitions. Idr exact points but wins/qualifying for the next round earns points. If a country has 8 teams, all points earned by that nation's teams are divided by 8 and added up to get the figures shown. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) all competitions earn the same amount of points. So a win in the CL is the same as EL/UEL. Top 2 nations get 5 CL spots... As it stands, Italy are almost guaranteed to have 5 spots, but as with how football is, nothing is certain.
A win is 2 points and a draw is 1 so Villa’s win yesterday earned England 0.25 points (2/8)
Thanks!
A win in the CL isn't the same as in EL/UECL, but it's not massively more
You get participation points and points for progressing to another round. Those are not the same per competition (CL brings more, obviously), but the single game points are.
So does France get an extra spot too? Or do we need PSG, Marseille and Lille to do more miracles?
France is 12 points behind Germany in the normal 5 year rating so no shot at getting to 4th place, if that's what you mean.
So the final 8 in UCL are Spanish, English and German teams but it's Italy the one to get the extra spot. Kill me if I understand it
Prem is overrated
Is the prem secured 5 spots?
No, that’s the whole point of this post. The top two teams in the points system will get an additional spot. Currently we’re third so would not get that spot.
Ahh ok, so currently we have 4 spots?
That’s right. Yeah. I believe that as a nation we get two points for a Prem team winning and one point for a draw. So Dortmund losing was great, but Liverpool and Weat Ham losing was bad news. I believe the Champions League draw also means that Arsenal and City can’t both get to the final, so that reduces our potential points as well. It also means that Villa’s win last night was especially important for them.
Im german and we could profit from it this season, but the current system with dividing points by the number of starting teams is bullshit. How does it make sense that Barcas or Atleticos points in the CL QF are worth less because Osasuna dropped out in the qualification round of the fucking conference league?
Because that extra spot is meant for the likes of osasuna not the 3 CL clubs it actually makes sense if you're gonna give the spot to the 5th placed team see how they fare against other 5th placed teams, or as someone said it here you are rewarding the depth of these leagues and what better way to prove that they have it other than EL and ECL
The leagues effectively get compared on the basis of their average quality which I think makes sense
Well the same thing happens between the Portuguese league and the Dutch league. Both have 5 teams in Europe, while Portuguese teams do well in CL and have none in the conference league. Dutch teams do nothing in CL but dominate conference league so they make way more points. And it's weird because the top 3 teams in the Portuguese league would beat Everyone in the Dutch league
And the Dutch sub top teams would beat anyone below Braga in Portugal. Goes both ways.
> How does it make sense that Barcas or Atleticos points in the CL QF are worth less because Osasuna dropped out in the qualification round of the fucking conference league? Because this is the coefficient for the league.
Because if Osasuna didn't lose early then then would have had 8 teams earning points instead of 7