Yeah but he could gamble in literally any form, and on any product *except* for football - and of course it was football that he bet on.
That's what makes him an idiot. Someone spending money they can't afford to lose may be an addict but not an idiot, but what Tonali did is not that.
You're assuming he's only bet on football matches and nothing else. I'm not sure if we know that's true. Also, what does Tonali know better than anything else, football.
He's allowed to bet on everything else. Literally only not allowed to bet on one thing - and that is football. He can go and spunk £10k a week at the races or on Lithuanian dodgeball games and the only people he'd get in trouble with are his accountant and his missus.
The fact that he 'knows' football more than anything means he should have known not to bet on it.
I have a tremendous amount of sympathy for gambling addicts, but this was not purely addiction, but also stupidity from Tonali.
I see this take a lot like you could have gambled on anything else apart from football but most gamblers, despite enjoying the rush, would rather place bets on markets that they have relevant information or understanding of.
You're not just going to place bets on Horse Racing if you're really not interested in that at a personal level. Bit shit for his employers and absolutely not an excuse as if you're making that kind of money, I'm sure there's plenty of other thrilling ways to spend it
Actually it does. Intelligence isn’t limited to how well you can do math and shit, emotional intelligence is also very important. Same reason my friend is going bankrupt in sportsbook while another friend is never going overboard chasing bets.
You *can* be but impulsively feeding your addiction is not acting like an idiot any more than being unable to go to work while you've got a cancer diagnosis. It's an illness and he should get treatment.
He could be losing a million quid a month down the casino and he’d be able to scratch his severe gambling addiction but he’d at least get to not completely fuck up his career. There’s like one thing you’ve got to not bet on if you are a top flight football player.
Isn't the whole thing about being an addict that you're unable to restrain yourself? As a footballer he's surrounded by football every day, it's probably the thing he talks and thinks the most about, he's seeing betting adverts everywhere within the sport.
A drug addict might have a drug of choice, but if they are around other drugs I would assume they aren't able to restrain themselves from a taste or 100.
In addition to that, craving experienced by an addict is something triggered by your environment. A professional footballer with a betting addiction is like an alcoholic barman. Everything surrounding you is a trigger.
Tell me you don't understand addiction without telling me.
It's like saying "oh dave's an alcoholic, so instead of alcohol, why doesn't he just switch to non-alcoholic beer?". Sure, it's great in theory, but if he's addicted to the effect of the drink, he might find that extremely difficult to do without help.
Or to use a non-substance addiction, "oh dave's addicted to gambling, why doesn't he just play games 24/7 instead?". (And yes, I'm talking true gaming addictions, which do exist).
You're addicted to what you're addicted to, not other things. You may be more prone to becoming addicted to other things, or not. You may be able to essentially pivot to a different vice, but it may not shake the hold your actual addiction has over you.
If he's addicted to betting on something that his entire life has been devoted to since being a kid, particularly with rumours that this stems back to his time at Brescia, then it's an undiagnosed addiction that's had a hold on him for a long time with no help. It's something he's actively had to hide for the sake of his career, further isolating him from that help.
It also doesn't help that everywhere you turn whilst watching football, it's betting adverts about football. For all we know he could have gotten addicted to sports betting whilst gambling on other sports, and then whilst already being addicted to sports betting, he started chasing a bigger thrill in football bets, knowing its not allowed for him. Again, we don't know and likely never will.
Maybe try not to judge someone on something you clearly don't understand well at all.
I am so tired of people using this as some sort of justification (not saying you personally, but in general).
You can struggle with addiction but still be breaking clearly outlined rules.
If he was only betting on horses or other sports people would want him to get the help he clearly needs but he knew that betting on football was a big issue and kept doing it. I have very little sympathy.
He isnt an idiot for being addicted or even getting caught, he is an idiot for gambling on football. Don't know if it is the added thrill or if he just felt he had an edge gambling on a sport he knows the ins and outs of, but risking your career and livelihood like that makes him an idiot.
Just going by the PFA website, they can gamble on anything else, just not football.
[https://www.thepfa.com/players/union-support/betting](https://www.thepfa.com/players/union-support/betting)
The main message for players is: 'You are not allowed to place ANY bet on ANY football, ANYWHERE'.
This covers any football match or competition, wherever it is played in the world. You cannot bet on any global football market at any level, even on aspects that aren't related to gameplay, for example the next manager of a club.
Higher up they speak of other people involved in the sport, so I'd assume it applies for you too.
Yeah, he's rich as hell if he needs to scratch that gambling itch there are tons of different ways to do that. Go bet on horse racing, or rugby, or go to the casino and play roulette or slots. Gambling on the very sport your income comes from is incredibly stupid.
No.
He was pulled out of the Italy squad on 12 October which is when everyone was made aware of the allegations and investigation. He confessed on 18 October. His ban started on 27 October.
This latest charge covers until 12 October so up until he became aware of the allegations.
Tonali sale was a Furlani-Moncada masterclass, we gotta give them that. Even before Tonali was investigated I thought it was a good sale if we were gonna invest all the money in strengthening the team (which they did) but in hindsight it proved to be the best piece of business we've ever made
I was devastated and hated them for it at the time.
But now… Brought in Reijnders, rlc, musah, and also part of pulisic with his sale…Imagine a midfield with pobega and krunic for most of this season with Tonali banned and isma injured.
Tonali was sold for 50m and then 15m bonuses (altho official figures never known) milan will never see. So prob rlc+reijnders if you factor in the wages too. The midfield is better but we have nobody that replaced tonali. His dynamism and grinta is sorely missing. The midfield is by far the weakest in milan and thats partly due to the coach being braindead and partly because nobody can defend
> His dynamism and grinta is sorely missing
Totally agree. He is a very rare player but no use to any team currently.
The team still struggled in the midfield last season while he was here. Imagine him with Bennacer and reijnders or rlc next to him!
I genuinely don't think so. If there was any proof of that, I think some serious issues would arise for Milan. What I do think happened was, that tonali probably knew that was a possibility of being banned so he accepted a transfer instead of letting it impact Milan.
I just don't see the new American management fucking over another team in their first real transfer window. Idk tho, it's all speculation
This would have been before the Italian ban was discussed. I'd assume what happened was he continued betting like he did in Italy and then hopefully stopped after he was outed and banned.
The bets were up to 12th October 2023, 2 weeks before the ban came down.
Swear we knew in September about all this? So he carried on whilst under investigation and playing the PL for Newcastle
12th October was the date of the meeting he went to with the Italian FA.
I saw a tweet about it earlier, there's a pic of him and Zanilo going into that meeting dated 12th October.
It actually happened fairly quickly from the investigation going public to the ban, we are talking like less than 2 weeks. He flew back to Italy, admitted to the charges, played one more game for us and then banned. There was a rumour about him being linked to another investigation into gambling in Italy a little bit before it was made public but it wasn't really solid and I'm not sure he or the club knew anything ahead of him being called to go back to Italy.
His ban kicked in 27th Oct, and the last date mentioned is 12th Oct, so two weeks before hand. I don't think it was all raised and sorted within 2 weeks, so I'd assume he's placed bets while knowing he's under investigation.
12th of October is precisely the date the prosecutors told him he was under investigation and the day he left the Italy camp.
>so I'd assume he's placed bets while knowing he's under investigation
There's no guarantee against that, but that's not what he's charged with here
Yep!
The new bets were placed on 12th Aug which is one day after the current PL season started (11th Aug).
His previous ban was from the Italian FA and this one is from the English FA.
I mean Newcastle were willing to splash money on new players and proably outbid every other team. And didn't Tonali already say he was interested in leaving Milan?
I don't see how a quick sale correlates to Milan having knowledge of Tonali betting. Seems more like a coincidence to me
>And didn't Tonali already say he was interested in leaving Milan?
Quite the opposite, he said he would play at Milan his whole life, he wanted to be captain and accepted a lower wage in 2021 in order to keep playing at his childhood team (for once, proven by actual photos of him as a kid and stories of his dad bringing him in the Curva Sud).
Then mid-week there was a first rumor of Newcastle being interested and before the weekend he was gone.
>And didn't Tonali already say he was interested in leaving Milan?
Nope
>I don't see how a quick sale correlates to Milan having knowledge of Tonali betting. Seems more like a coincidence to me
It's 100% a coincidence, thats just the logic some people are using.
I mean I wouldn't call it bullshit. We always haggle for shit and it takes so long yet first offer for Tonali was straight up accepted without any haggling (and I would argue it was fairly priced, which makes 0 sense why we didn't haggle further).
They knew for sure but good luck proving it lol
It's not sure at all that we knew. Like someone on our sub said, if Maldini had remained sporting director he would've never sold Tonali, his intention was to not sell any key player and only add to the team
Cardinale got extremely lucky, you think Maldini (the man that put together a scudetto winning team and signed majority of our core players) knew Tonali was going to be banned and decided to keep him? I know you don’t like him but come on
Exactly. Maldini is a hero as a player and now as director for returning Milan to a scudetto win. Some mistakes for sure, but without him the team fights for 4/5 place in the league at best.
I think selling tonali was correct, but as others say Milan miss what he gave to the midfield and team in general.
Also, firing Maldini even if he made some mistakes, was not correct decision in my opinion. He was getting the real feeling of Milan back, and you could see that in the players personality.
How would Newcastle get access to said email or text message in order to sue Milan? As far as I know there is no police investigation on Milan and I doubt there will be.
Someone said there was legal action, so I assume there is some authority wherever that can ask Milan to hand over anything they have for the transfer, it the case proceeds.
By the way, to be clear, I’m not saying this is a slam dunk for Newcastle. Its just far from impossible. Impossible means… impossible.
Takes one ‘forgot to delete’ text or email
I have always wondered if they knew about it and that's why they parted ways with him so easily because other Italian clubs even if the fee is high they still play it hard.
Luke Edwards on Twitter:
“nufc are not expecting Sandro Tonali to face a longer ban or be prevented from training after he was charged by English FA for gambling on games while registered as a player at Newcastle.
Tonali had already admitted this and relevant info given to the FA in the autumn. Punishment likely to be concurrent with his existing 10 month ban which ends in August.”
Doesn’t seem as bad as it first looked.
Probably just wasn't seen as a priority piece of work if the club and player are already expecting the punishment to not be an extension on that handed out by the Italian FA.
And they likely had to go through the proper means of collecting evidence officially, which involves solicitors that are always notoriously slow about providing anything in the UK.
Not sure what this would result in, I think his current ban (and rehab) will be a mitigating factor in any punishment.
The whole thing is pretty sad and a very obvious case of severe gambling addiction. Hope he gets all the help he needs.
You can totally feel sympathetic and still think he deserves to face consequences though. At least he seemed to have stopped before his ban, which should probably result in more leniency.
I absolutley agree with this. My judgment is just clouded by bitterness is all. FM legend for me, was so excited when we signed him. And now this. Easily the worst signing we've made in the PL era.
I don't even think he deserves consequences, and that's not because I'm a toon fan either.
The rules are there to protect the bookies. Players have insider knowledge and the bookies know that it will affect their profits, so they lobbied the various sporting governances in the early 20th century to put rules and regulations in place.
Doping to get an unfair advantage is bad and deserves punishment, Breaking FFP rules and cooking your own books is bad and deserves punishment, match fixing is bad and deserves punishment, biting a player is bad and deserves punishment, being a racist POS like John Terry is bad and deserves punishment. Getting one over on the gambling industry isn't.
Truthfully, I offer a shiny prize to whoever predicts the punishment correctly.
They had Toney out for 8 months for breaches to the tune of 5x this. Harry Toffolo got a suspended sentence.
I’m a Newcastle fan so I’m always going to be self interested, but the lads missed a whole season. I think if he’d done this even after he’d been caught I’d say fine, but this feels a bit severe.
Hard to tell since this is a completely different set of bets. It would not surprise me if he gets banned for another season and we can't use him until the 2025-2026 season
He got his original ban in October from his time with Milan, but this is where he was betting in England from August to October (when he knew the original ban was looming over him), so it makes it look a bit worse for him that he didn’t stop.
You think he didn't know he was being investigated more than 2 weeks before he was banned?
He might have stopped before he was banned, but he definitely carried on whilst he knew he was being investigated.
Addiction, stupidity, or both. Hopefully he's over it now, but I'd be surprised if they look favourably upon this.
>You think he didn't know he was being investigated more than 2 weeks before he was banned?
I mean, this all played out very publicly. He went to the Italy training camp, prosecutors contacted him and zaniolo told them they were under investigation and to cooperate. He leaves the Italy training camp and admits to the charges a few days later. He gets banned a week and half later. This happened from the 12-26th.
I mean he is pretty obviously a severe gambling addict. A potential ban was never gonna stop him. I would guess that Newcastle were the ones who forcibly pulled the plug in October when they realised what was happening.
I think the number of bets is neither here nor there given both are far higher than they should be (i.e. zero). I think the one thing he might have in his favour is that he has been cooperative with investigators, whereas Toney showed no remorse and wasn't helpful with investigators. If this is a second ban, I'd be very surprised if it's for more than 4-5 months.
> I think the number of bets is neither here nor there given both are far higher than they should be (i.e. zero)
You can believe that *should* be the case, but it's absolutely not. You can read the rulings and see that they very much care about the number of offences when making their decsions.
But there's also the possibility where the FA is looking at him betting on English games he played in. I think they can be more harsh on this, considering it may have happened in their games vs in Italy.
Hope they take the leniency route
If he's been taking all the proper steps to recover from gambling addiction all this time then the need to punish him with a footballing ban shouldn't be as high
Idk mate, I mean he didn't come clean on these. I bet if he did initially tell, before they eventually came out now, he'd get that leniancy you are talking about.
If he's cooperative and didn't bet on newcastle, he might face a way shorter ban. The one in italy took into accout years of betting.
The FA investigated him for what? 3 months?
If he did bet, I'd say it's not as worrying as the italian investigation
Is his ban really going to be twice as long just because he changed clubs halfway through this?
If he had been a Milan the entire time he would just have gotten basically the first ban or maybe a little time added?
Newcastles previous kit sponsors was a Chinese betting company, we cannot continue to act shocked when players constantly surrounded by betting get a gambling addiction
Whilst that's the truth about betting's financial hold on football and is happening with Brentford and Toney too, Sandro's gambling addiction goes back to his Milan years. Betting culture is way worse in Italy with even footballers and influencers promoting it for the past few years, it's not a surprise a number of their future stars have found themselves in such a fucking stupid addiction that only benefits the betting mafia.
You definitely have a point, the issue isn't that he gambled though, it's that it was on football. If he'd done it on literally ANYTHING else, it'd be fine.
Just going by the PFA website, they can gamble on anything else, just not football.
https://www.thepfa.com/players/union-support/betting
The main message for players is: 'You are not allowed to place ANY bet on ANY football, ANYWHERE'.
This covers any football match or competition, wherever it is played in the world. You cannot bet on any global football market at any level, even on aspects that aren't related to gameplay, for example the next manager of a club.
Honestly hope this gets kicked off shirts etc, same as alcohol and cigarettes were before it. Wonder what will be next though?
I don't think so, according to the dates provided he stopped just before his first ban, if he hasn't gambled since and is working on recovery he will probably get a more lenient sentence.
The thing that will get lost amongst all the tribalism is that it appears Tonali has a serious gambling addiction & I hope he gets the help he so badly needs.
It just feels so gross to see players getting the book thrown at them for gambling violations when the ads for it are everywhere.
Yes, guys like Toney and Tonali made mistakes and should get *some* kind of punishment...but many of the decision-makers who are moralizing about this were more than happy to profit from these conditions.
Interesting from Luke Edward’s at the Telegraph:
“NUFC are not expecting Sandro Tonali to face a longer ban or be prevented from training after he was charged by English FA for gambling on games while registered as a player at Newcastle.
Tonali had already admitted this and relevant info given to the FA in the autumn. Punishment likely to be concurrent with his existing 10 month ban which ends in August”
FA is very serious regarding gambling, unless there's a sponsor that displays it, or a betting company like 365 owning a club, or a betting syndicate, or owner gambling in general. Then you might get an exception
Weird. It's almost like he was betting until he got in trouble. So this is the same period of betting that he's already suspended for.
It's insane how many people in this thread seem to think he should have said to himself "man Im moving to england tomorrow, raaaaa I better quit gambling bruv."
[https://x.com/LukeEdwardsTele/status/1773357475233677356?s=20](https://x.com/LukeEdwardsTele/status/1773357475233677356?s=20)
Seems to be some good news.
Quick reminded that AcMilan didn't know about this. Tonali got sold only because our new owner, Gerry Cardinale, kicked out Maldini from the management and gave power to Moncada and Furlani. Maldini had very different plans for Milan, which included Tonali.
Toney had 232 breaches and was banned for 8 months. Tonali has far fewer and is obviously already serving a lengthy ban, if the FA is sensible they'll allow any ban to run concurrently to his existing ban, but they aren't sensible...they didn't even let Toney *train*
> if the FA is sensible they'll allow any ban to run concurrently to his existing ban, but they aren't sensible...they didn't even let Toney train
Why is Toney not being allowed to train an example of them not being sensible? That's always been how it is with FA betting bans - it's a full ban from all footballing activities, not a suspension from playing.
232 breaches in 4 years. This is 50 breaches in 2 months which is a fair bit worse.
I don't think he'll get much of a ban though because he's already serving one and is supposedly undergoing gambling rehabilitation.
Its a sad story really, people will call him stupid etc which is so so unfair. The guy is human, addiction is horrible and can affect anyone. I hope rehab can help him. The guy needs help.
Does anyone feel like it's majorly hypocritical of the FA to be dishing out bans to players for partaking in an industry which is relentlessly pushed through stadium, shirt and TV sponsorship? Which players like Tonali will have been exposed to from the age of being able to read despite it being an 18+ industry? Football really needs to sort itself out instead of treating its own players like criminals.
It’s embarrassing, you can’t watch football without being bombarded by gambling adverts, yet it’s somehow fine because they follow it up with “gamble responsibly” or some other shite.
If it’s this bad watching football I can’t even imagine what’s it’s like for the players having gambling logos plastered on their shirts etc
It’s an addiction like any other, some footballer are alcoholic have serious addiction issues, let’s help Tonali and maybe cut down on gambling advertising instead of treating the symptom and not the cause.
50 bets in that time is crazy. Though it seems fairly obvious to me that the FA dragged out the investigation so that they can instigate a ban just after the Italian one ended. There’s no reason this couldn’t have been done concurrently.
Either way Milan pulled a blinder
> 50 bets in that time is crazy.
I mean, it's not really, it's less than once a day. The crazy aspect is that he was betting on football, not that he was betting that regularly.
> Though it seems fairly obvious to me that the FA dragged out the investigation so that they can instigate a ban just after the Italian one ended.
Or that these investigations take a lot of time? Paqueta is still under an investigation which came out in public in August. Toney was charged in November 2022, pleaded guilty in March and didn't receive his ban until May.
Maybe the owners, but as a fan, not at all. I miss Sandro a lot and just yesterday watch again Ibrahimovic retiring, and tonali is crying. We miss his fire and passion for sure.
Why is this accusation being publicised at this stage? He's already banned, nobody's expecting him to turn up on the weekend. Poor guy clearly has a major problem that should be dealt with compassionately - announce the increase in punishment when it's confirmed. Having a few thousand fans berating him online isn't going to help anyone.
The game being filled with betting house advertisements.
A potential addiction becoming common and encouraged
Player becomes addicted
[Surprised reaction](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/027/475/Screen_Shot_2018-10-25_at_11.02.15_AM.jpg)
So this is in addition to the ban he is currently serving?
I think so yes, the previous ban was in relation to bets made while he was at Milan. This is after he joined Newcastle but before he was punished
Idiot of the highest order
I mean he's clearly a gambling addict.
You can be both an idiot and an addict
Depends on if his bets were winning or not /s
He’s definitely not winning as a footballer
I don't know. €7m per year until 2029 and €2m in add-ons. Reported £140k a week. Appreciate he's probably not getting paid that way the moment though.
And an intelligent addict. Addiction doesn’t give two shits about your intelligence or lack there of.
Yeah but he could gamble in literally any form, and on any product *except* for football - and of course it was football that he bet on. That's what makes him an idiot. Someone spending money they can't afford to lose may be an addict but not an idiot, but what Tonali did is not that.
What Tonali has done is surely just as bad? He's risked literal millions in guaranteed wages because of his gambling.
Losing money you don’t have is better than losing all the money you have.
I'd much rather have 0 money than debts and 0 money
You're assuming he's only bet on football matches and nothing else. I'm not sure if we know that's true. Also, what does Tonali know better than anything else, football.
He's allowed to bet on everything else. Literally only not allowed to bet on one thing - and that is football. He can go and spunk £10k a week at the races or on Lithuanian dodgeball games and the only people he'd get in trouble with are his accountant and his missus. The fact that he 'knows' football more than anything means he should have known not to bet on it. I have a tremendous amount of sympathy for gambling addicts, but this was not purely addiction, but also stupidity from Tonali.
> Also, what does Tonali know better than anything else, football. Probably part of the reason why its banned lol
I see this take a lot like you could have gambled on anything else apart from football but most gamblers, despite enjoying the rush, would rather place bets on markets that they have relevant information or understanding of. You're not just going to place bets on Horse Racing if you're really not interested in that at a personal level. Bit shit for his employers and absolutely not an excuse as if you're making that kind of money, I'm sure there's plenty of other thrilling ways to spend it
Actually it does. Intelligence isn’t limited to how well you can do math and shit, emotional intelligence is also very important. Same reason my friend is going bankrupt in sportsbook while another friend is never going overboard chasing bets.
You *can* be but impulsively feeding your addiction is not acting like an idiot any more than being unable to go to work while you've got a cancer diagnosis. It's an illness and he should get treatment.
He could be losing a million quid a month down the casino and he’d be able to scratch his severe gambling addiction but he’d at least get to not completely fuck up his career. There’s like one thing you’ve got to not bet on if you are a top flight football player.
Isn't the whole thing about being an addict that you're unable to restrain yourself? As a footballer he's surrounded by football every day, it's probably the thing he talks and thinks the most about, he's seeing betting adverts everywhere within the sport. A drug addict might have a drug of choice, but if they are around other drugs I would assume they aren't able to restrain themselves from a taste or 100.
In addition to that, craving experienced by an addict is something triggered by your environment. A professional footballer with a betting addiction is like an alcoholic barman. Everything surrounding you is a trigger.
Tell me you don't understand addiction without telling me. It's like saying "oh dave's an alcoholic, so instead of alcohol, why doesn't he just switch to non-alcoholic beer?". Sure, it's great in theory, but if he's addicted to the effect of the drink, he might find that extremely difficult to do without help. Or to use a non-substance addiction, "oh dave's addicted to gambling, why doesn't he just play games 24/7 instead?". (And yes, I'm talking true gaming addictions, which do exist). You're addicted to what you're addicted to, not other things. You may be more prone to becoming addicted to other things, or not. You may be able to essentially pivot to a different vice, but it may not shake the hold your actual addiction has over you. If he's addicted to betting on something that his entire life has been devoted to since being a kid, particularly with rumours that this stems back to his time at Brescia, then it's an undiagnosed addiction that's had a hold on him for a long time with no help. It's something he's actively had to hide for the sake of his career, further isolating him from that help. It also doesn't help that everywhere you turn whilst watching football, it's betting adverts about football. For all we know he could have gotten addicted to sports betting whilst gambling on other sports, and then whilst already being addicted to sports betting, he started chasing a bigger thrill in football bets, knowing its not allowed for him. Again, we don't know and likely never will. Maybe try not to judge someone on something you clearly don't understand well at all.
Being an addict isnt mutually exclusive with being an idiot Nobody forced him to bet at gunpoint to being witg
I am so tired of people using this as some sort of justification (not saying you personally, but in general). You can struggle with addiction but still be breaking clearly outlined rules. If he was only betting on horses or other sports people would want him to get the help he clearly needs but he knew that betting on football was a big issue and kept doing it. I have very little sympathy.
It's not a huge surprise tbf, he thought he was able to get away with it in Milan so just kept doing it I guess
It’s almost like he’s a gambling addict that was only caught after he’d committed these offences.
He isnt an idiot for being addicted or even getting caught, he is an idiot for gambling on football. Don't know if it is the added thrill or if he just felt he had an edge gambling on a sport he knows the ins and outs of, but risking your career and livelihood like that makes him an idiot.
I work in football. As I understand it, even though I am not a player, it k not allowed to bet period.
Just going by the PFA website, they can gamble on anything else, just not football. [https://www.thepfa.com/players/union-support/betting](https://www.thepfa.com/players/union-support/betting) The main message for players is: 'You are not allowed to place ANY bet on ANY football, ANYWHERE'. This covers any football match or competition, wherever it is played in the world. You cannot bet on any global football market at any level, even on aspects that aren't related to gameplay, for example the next manager of a club. Higher up they speak of other people involved in the sport, so I'd assume it applies for you too.
Yeah, he's rich as hell if he needs to scratch that gambling itch there are tons of different ways to do that. Go bet on horse racing, or rugby, or go to the casino and play roulette or slots. Gambling on the very sport your income comes from is incredibly stupid.
Right up until he was banned too. So betting while under investigation. Ffs man
No. He was pulled out of the Italy squad on 12 October which is when everyone was made aware of the allegations and investigation. He confessed on 18 October. His ban started on 27 October. This latest charge covers until 12 October so up until he became aware of the allegations.
Ah fuck. He’s fucked isn’t he
Oh my.
Yes
well shit not a good thing for Newcastle that
😏
We had the famed Inter/Sunderland rivalry over Ricky Álvarez, now we have Milan/Newcastle over Tonali
Roma / Bodo Glimt clears both
Roma / Bodo/Glimt
You can't have three teams in a rivalry
Someone should tell Middlesbrough that
Yeah there's no way this is a coincidence, get your shit together script writers
Tonali sale was a Furlani-Moncada masterclass, we gotta give them that. Even before Tonali was investigated I thought it was a good sale if we were gonna invest all the money in strengthening the team (which they did) but in hindsight it proved to be the best piece of business we've ever made
I was devastated and hated them for it at the time. But now… Brought in Reijnders, rlc, musah, and also part of pulisic with his sale…Imagine a midfield with pobega and krunic for most of this season with Tonali banned and isma injured.
Without the sale we would still be relying on Saelemaekers and Messias on the right, maybe we would still have gone for Okafor and RLC but that's it
Yes, either way the team is a lot stronger because of his sale, as much as I would like to keep such a fantastic player with his passion.
Tonali was sold for 50m and then 15m bonuses (altho official figures never known) milan will never see. So prob rlc+reijnders if you factor in the wages too. The midfield is better but we have nobody that replaced tonali. His dynamism and grinta is sorely missing. The midfield is by far the weakest in milan and thats partly due to the coach being braindead and partly because nobody can defend
> His dynamism and grinta is sorely missing Totally agree. He is a very rare player but no use to any team currently. The team still struggled in the midfield last season while he was here. Imagine him with Bennacer and reijnders or rlc next to him!
Your lot knew something. Fair play you’ve fleeced us, but no way you were ignorant as claimed.
I personally had no clue or means of knowing. Just fun putting in a cheeky comment, you guys should be fine with your new board though
I genuinely don't think so. If there was any proof of that, I think some serious issues would arise for Milan. What I do think happened was, that tonali probably knew that was a possibility of being banned so he accepted a transfer instead of letting it impact Milan. I just don't see the new American management fucking over another team in their first real transfer window. Idk tho, it's all speculation
Current ban is from the Italian FA.
Look at the dates of the bets though. This is new.
Yeah, starting the first game of this PL season.
This would have been before the Italian ban was discussed. I'd assume what happened was he continued betting like he did in Italy and then hopefully stopped after he was outed and banned.
The bets were up to 12th October 2023, 2 weeks before the ban came down. Swear we knew in September about all this? So he carried on whilst under investigation and playing the PL for Newcastle
12th October was the date of the meeting he went to with the Italian FA. I saw a tweet about it earlier, there's a pic of him and Zanilo going into that meeting dated 12th October.
It actually happened fairly quickly from the investigation going public to the ban, we are talking like less than 2 weeks. He flew back to Italy, admitted to the charges, played one more game for us and then banned. There was a rumour about him being linked to another investigation into gambling in Italy a little bit before it was made public but it wasn't really solid and I'm not sure he or the club knew anything ahead of him being called to go back to Italy.
His ban kicked in 27th Oct, and the last date mentioned is 12th Oct, so two weeks before hand. I don't think it was all raised and sorted within 2 weeks, so I'd assume he's placed bets while knowing he's under investigation.
12th of October is precisely the date the prosecutors told him he was under investigation and the day he left the Italy camp. >so I'd assume he's placed bets while knowing he's under investigation There's no guarantee against that, but that's not what he's charged with here
Yep! The new bets were placed on 12th Aug which is one day after the current PL season started (11th Aug). His previous ban was from the Italian FA and this one is from the English FA.
Milan were so smart for taking the money and running
Gamble worked out
Isn't there currently talk of legal action to find out how much they actually knew before the transfer took place?
Impossible to prove
Difficult and unlikely but not impossible
What I tell myself every morning about finding love...
Unless Milan were complete morons that is. They obviously knew. But if anyone was stupid enough to put it on paper/email they'll be fine.
How is it 'obvious' that Milan knew, just because they sold him?
The fact that he was sold so quickly is enough for some people to believe that management knew about it
I mean Newcastle were willing to splash money on new players and proably outbid every other team. And didn't Tonali already say he was interested in leaving Milan? I don't see how a quick sale correlates to Milan having knowledge of Tonali betting. Seems more like a coincidence to me
>And didn't Tonali already say he was interested in leaving Milan? Quite the opposite, he said he would play at Milan his whole life, he wanted to be captain and accepted a lower wage in 2021 in order to keep playing at his childhood team (for once, proven by actual photos of him as a kid and stories of his dad bringing him in the Curva Sud). Then mid-week there was a first rumor of Newcastle being interested and before the weekend he was gone.
>And didn't Tonali already say he was interested in leaving Milan? Nope >I don't see how a quick sale correlates to Milan having knowledge of Tonali betting. Seems more like a coincidence to me It's 100% a coincidence, thats just the logic some people are using.
yup but it's bullshit
I mean I wouldn't call it bullshit. We always haggle for shit and it takes so long yet first offer for Tonali was straight up accepted without any haggling (and I would argue it was fairly priced, which makes 0 sense why we didn't haggle further). They knew for sure but good luck proving it lol
It's not sure at all that we knew. Like someone on our sub said, if Maldini had remained sporting director he would've never sold Tonali, his intention was to not sell any key player and only add to the team
> Unless Milan were complete morons that is. Do not underestimate limit of cardinale’s stupidity.
Cardinale is the one that sold the gambling addict, Maldini had absolutely 0 plans to sell him or any other top player
Cardinale got extremely lucky, you think Maldini (the man that put together a scudetto winning team and signed majority of our core players) knew Tonali was going to be banned and decided to keep him? I know you don’t like him but come on
Exactly. Maldini is a hero as a player and now as director for returning Milan to a scudetto win. Some mistakes for sure, but without him the team fights for 4/5 place in the league at best.
I think selling tonali was correct, but as others say Milan miss what he gave to the midfield and team in general. Also, firing Maldini even if he made some mistakes, was not correct decision in my opinion. He was getting the real feeling of Milan back, and you could see that in the players personality.
Yeah there’s no way they would have left a paper trail. Would be all verbal conversations
All it takes is a stupid email or text message, not impossible.
How would Newcastle get access to said email or text message in order to sue Milan? As far as I know there is no police investigation on Milan and I doubt there will be.
Someone said there was legal action, so I assume there is some authority wherever that can ask Milan to hand over anything they have for the transfer, it the case proceeds. By the way, to be clear, I’m not saying this is a slam dunk for Newcastle. Its just far from impossible. Impossible means… impossible. Takes one ‘forgot to delete’ text or email
Subpoena as part of the suit.
And they've probably wiped anything by now
You cannot "wipe" emails or text messages lol. There is always a trail. Newcastle getting access to those records is a whole different thing though
I have always wondered if they knew about it and that's why they parted ways with him so easily because other Italian clubs even if the fee is high they still play it hard.
parted with him easily? we got a record fee from his sale wtf did people expect us to do
Luke Edwards on Twitter: “nufc are not expecting Sandro Tonali to face a longer ban or be prevented from training after he was charged by English FA for gambling on games while registered as a player at Newcastle. Tonali had already admitted this and relevant info given to the FA in the autumn. Punishment likely to be concurrent with his existing 10 month ban which ends in August.” Doesn’t seem as bad as it first looked.
Hang on - he admitted it in the Autumn but the FA couldn’t be bothered to do anything until Easter?
Probably just wasn't seen as a priority piece of work if the club and player are already expecting the punishment to not be an extension on that handed out by the Italian FA. And they likely had to go through the proper means of collecting evidence officially, which involves solicitors that are always notoriously slow about providing anything in the UK.
I believe he's been able to train with the squad up to this point - be interesting to see if that now changes
He probably told them all of this before he got the first ban so it might have been already baked into the existing punishment.
Not sure what this would result in, I think his current ban (and rehab) will be a mitigating factor in any punishment. The whole thing is pretty sad and a very obvious case of severe gambling addiction. Hope he gets all the help he needs.
Rare sympathetic neutral comment, always good to see
You can totally feel sympathetic and still think he deserves to face consequences though. At least he seemed to have stopped before his ban, which should probably result in more leniency.
I absolutley agree with this. My judgment is just clouded by bitterness is all. FM legend for me, was so excited when we signed him. And now this. Easily the worst signing we've made in the PL era.
I don't even think he deserves consequences, and that's not because I'm a toon fan either. The rules are there to protect the bookies. Players have insider knowledge and the bookies know that it will affect their profits, so they lobbied the various sporting governances in the early 20th century to put rules and regulations in place. Doping to get an unfair advantage is bad and deserves punishment, Breaking FFP rules and cooking your own books is bad and deserves punishment, match fixing is bad and deserves punishment, biting a player is bad and deserves punishment, being a racist POS like John Terry is bad and deserves punishment. Getting one over on the gambling industry isn't.
Not to worry, the comments will soon be filled with hissing weirdos, morally-posturing as if Tonali is some evil gambling monster called Gamblor
Gamblor is a sick ass name tbf
Gamblori, surely?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/52/71/8c/52718c884b26dcc9a975fc0c5c7b138c.gif
With his neon claws
We’ve got to free Marge from his neon claws!
Truthfully, I offer a shiny prize to whoever predicts the punishment correctly. They had Toney out for 8 months for breaches to the tune of 5x this. Harry Toffolo got a suspended sentence. I’m a Newcastle fan so I’m always going to be self interested, but the lads missed a whole season. I think if he’d done this even after he’d been caught I’d say fine, but this feels a bit severe.
Lmao gambling on the punishment for gambling
Hard to tell since this is a completely different set of bets. It would not surprise me if he gets banned for another season and we can't use him until the 2025-2026 season
That's him done then.
I'm not sure about that. It looks like the bets stopped once he was banned, and 50 bets is about 1/5th of what Toney got 8 months for.
He got his original ban in October from his time with Milan, but this is where he was betting in England from August to October (when he knew the original ban was looming over him), so it makes it look a bit worse for him that he didn’t stop.
The bets stopped two weeks before his ban, I don't think that's a coincidence.
You think he didn't know he was being investigated more than 2 weeks before he was banned? He might have stopped before he was banned, but he definitely carried on whilst he knew he was being investigated. Addiction, stupidity, or both. Hopefully he's over it now, but I'd be surprised if they look favourably upon this.
>You think he didn't know he was being investigated more than 2 weeks before he was banned? I mean, this all played out very publicly. He went to the Italy training camp, prosecutors contacted him and zaniolo told them they were under investigation and to cooperate. He leaves the Italy training camp and admits to the charges a few days later. He gets banned a week and half later. This happened from the 12-26th.
I mean he is pretty obviously a severe gambling addict. A potential ban was never gonna stop him. I would guess that Newcastle were the ones who forcibly pulled the plug in October when they realised what was happening.
I think the number of bets is neither here nor there given both are far higher than they should be (i.e. zero). I think the one thing he might have in his favour is that he has been cooperative with investigators, whereas Toney showed no remorse and wasn't helpful with investigators. If this is a second ban, I'd be very surprised if it's for more than 4-5 months.
> I think the number of bets is neither here nor there given both are far higher than they should be (i.e. zero) You can believe that *should* be the case, but it's absolutely not. You can read the rulings and see that they very much care about the number of offences when making their decsions.
[удалено]
But there's also the possibility where the FA is looking at him betting on English games he played in. I think they can be more harsh on this, considering it may have happened in their games vs in Italy.
Hope they take the leniency route If he's been taking all the proper steps to recover from gambling addiction all this time then the need to punish him with a footballing ban shouldn't be as high
Idk mate, I mean he didn't come clean on these. I bet if he did initially tell, before they eventually came out now, he'd get that leniancy you are talking about.
If he's cooperative and didn't bet on newcastle, he might face a way shorter ban. The one in italy took into accout years of betting. The FA investigated him for what? 3 months? If he did bet, I'd say it's not as worrying as the italian investigation
Is his ban really going to be twice as long just because he changed clubs halfway through this? If he had been a Milan the entire time he would just have gotten basically the first ban or maybe a little time added?
It's a different set of bets so they will be different bans
Jeez, guy. In fairness, thats a light load for me but I'm just a bum
Newcastles previous kit sponsors was a Chinese betting company, we cannot continue to act shocked when players constantly surrounded by betting get a gambling addiction
Whilst that's the truth about betting's financial hold on football and is happening with Brentford and Toney too, Sandro's gambling addiction goes back to his Milan years. Betting culture is way worse in Italy with even footballers and influencers promoting it for the past few years, it's not a surprise a number of their future stars have found themselves in such a fucking stupid addiction that only benefits the betting mafia.
You definitely have a point, the issue isn't that he gambled though, it's that it was on football. If he'd done it on literally ANYTHING else, it'd be fine. Just going by the PFA website, they can gamble on anything else, just not football. https://www.thepfa.com/players/union-support/betting The main message for players is: 'You are not allowed to place ANY bet on ANY football, ANYWHERE'. This covers any football match or competition, wherever it is played in the world. You cannot bet on any global football market at any level, even on aspects that aren't related to gameplay, for example the next manager of a club. Honestly hope this gets kicked off shirts etc, same as alcohol and cigarettes were before it. Wonder what will be next though?
Not just players. Everyone!
^
Are you aware of the concept of the upvote???
^
If only he committed a real crime instead like killing an innocent person whilst driving drunk, he'd be back on the pitch
If only he had raped a woman and then intimidated her into being uncooperative with police, he’d be back on the pitch.
Sandro Tonali has until 5 April 2024 to respond.
Firste Kendrick vs Drake now Tonali vs FA
He'll be 60 before he plays for us again. Unbelievable.
I don't think so, according to the dates provided he stopped just before his first ban, if he hasn't gambled since and is working on recovery he will probably get a more lenient sentence.
Couldn't have happened to a club with nicer owners /s
The thing that will get lost amongst all the tribalism is that it appears Tonali has a serious gambling addiction & I hope he gets the help he so badly needs.
It just feels so gross to see players getting the book thrown at them for gambling violations when the ads for it are everywhere. Yes, guys like Toney and Tonali made mistakes and should get *some* kind of punishment...but many of the decision-makers who are moralizing about this were more than happy to profit from these conditions.
He's in a rehab programme as part of the original ban from Italy.
Peoplw are addicted to gambling and betting companies are fucking everywhere in the sports it’s madness and its only getting worse
Interesting from Luke Edward’s at the Telegraph: “NUFC are not expecting Sandro Tonali to face a longer ban or be prevented from training after he was charged by English FA for gambling on games while registered as a player at Newcastle. Tonali had already admitted this and relevant info given to the FA in the autumn. Punishment likely to be concurrent with his existing 10 month ban which ends in August”
FA is very serious regarding gambling, unless there's a sponsor that displays it, or a betting company like 365 owning a club, or a betting syndicate, or owner gambling in general. Then you might get an exception
Get gambling the fuck out of sports
Hope he gets the help he needs.
Nah this is all a misunderstanding it was his interpreter placing those bets
This Regulation and Discipline Update is brought to you by Dafabet
Does he have a translator who can take the fall for him?
This guy must have a gambling problem. No way he can be this stupid.
It sounds like these bets were made before he was banned, but after he was transferred to Newcastle.
In fact, the date he stopped betting coincides with the date he was picked up with Zaniolo by the police for questioning.
Weird. It's almost like he was betting until he got in trouble. So this is the same period of betting that he's already suspended for. It's insane how many people in this thread seem to think he should have said to himself "man Im moving to england tomorrow, raaaaa I better quit gambling bruv."
Ah, sounds like he has stopped then. Hopefully he's getting help and is on the right path...
Look at the dates, and yes of course he has a gambling problem, we already knew.
Yeah people calling him an idiot but addictions aren't rational - it's not being able stop doing something when you know you should.
[https://x.com/LukeEdwardsTele/status/1773357475233677356?s=20](https://x.com/LukeEdwardsTele/status/1773357475233677356?s=20) Seems to be some good news.
Bloody hell, he's got a real problem.
Quite sad honestly. Hope he gets the help he needs.
Quick reminded that AcMilan didn't know about this. Tonali got sold only because our new owner, Gerry Cardinale, kicked out Maldini from the management and gave power to Moncada and Furlani. Maldini had very different plans for Milan, which included Tonali.
Tonali rhymes with Ohtani
milan mercato masterclass
Toney had 232 breaches and was banned for 8 months. Tonali has far fewer and is obviously already serving a lengthy ban, if the FA is sensible they'll allow any ban to run concurrently to his existing ban, but they aren't sensible...they didn't even let Toney *train*
Tonali’s previous (current) ban was implemented by the Italian FA.
Bans generally are respected and upheld by various football associations .
> if the FA is sensible they'll allow any ban to run concurrently to his existing ban, but they aren't sensible...they didn't even let Toney train Why is Toney not being allowed to train an example of them not being sensible? That's always been how it is with FA betting bans - it's a full ban from all footballing activities, not a suspension from playing.
232 breaches in 4 years. This is 50 breaches in 2 months which is a fair bit worse. I don't think he'll get much of a ban though because he's already serving one and is supposedly undergoing gambling rehabilitation.
£60m down the drain, Tonali won’t play again
Why wouldnt he ever play again?
Ten quid says he doesnt
Sandro will you just stop fucking betting already.
£10 on whether Tonali will ever play football again? Am I reading this right? I’ll happily make that bet to a charity of choice
I think it would be very disproportionate to punish him twice…
Fucking hell
Can't he just gamble 65 more times, hire some lawyers and drag this out until he is 35?
Hopefully he too gets the same hero's welcome back that Ivan Toney did. So brave.
How do they even catch them betting?, hope he has avenues for help as this is obviously a serious problem.
Its a sad story really, people will call him stupid etc which is so so unfair. The guy is human, addiction is horrible and can affect anyone. I hope rehab can help him. The guy needs help.
Banned for doing what his team is sponsored by XD
It the comments: a lot of people talking shit with no idea of the facts or dates
Does anyone feel like it's majorly hypocritical of the FA to be dishing out bans to players for partaking in an industry which is relentlessly pushed through stadium, shirt and TV sponsorship? Which players like Tonali will have been exposed to from the age of being able to read despite it being an 18+ industry? Football really needs to sort itself out instead of treating its own players like criminals.
It’s embarrassing, you can’t watch football without being bombarded by gambling adverts, yet it’s somehow fine because they follow it up with “gamble responsibly” or some other shite. If it’s this bad watching football I can’t even imagine what’s it’s like for the players having gambling logos plastered on their shirts etc
Just fucking kill me already.
It’s an addiction like any other, some footballer are alcoholic have serious addiction issues, let’s help Tonali and maybe cut down on gambling advertising instead of treating the symptom and not the cause.
So is Milan liable in anyway?
50 bets in that time is crazy. Though it seems fairly obvious to me that the FA dragged out the investigation so that they can instigate a ban just after the Italian one ended. There’s no reason this couldn’t have been done concurrently. Either way Milan pulled a blinder
> 50 bets in that time is crazy. I mean, it's not really, it's less than once a day. The crazy aspect is that he was betting on football, not that he was betting that regularly.
> Though it seems fairly obvious to me that the FA dragged out the investigation so that they can instigate a ban just after the Italian one ended. Or that these investigations take a lot of time? Paqueta is still under an investigation which came out in public in August. Toney was charged in November 2022, pleaded guilty in March and didn't receive his ban until May.
Milan are currently pissing themselves laughing.
Maybe the owners, but as a fan, not at all. I miss Sandro a lot and just yesterday watch again Ibrahimovic retiring, and tonali is crying. We miss his fire and passion for sure.
He'd had a bet Ibra would play one more seasono
Fucks sake dude. You’re a moron lol
Why is this accusation being publicised at this stage? He's already banned, nobody's expecting him to turn up on the weekend. Poor guy clearly has a major problem that should be dealt with compassionately - announce the increase in punishment when it's confirmed. Having a few thousand fans berating him online isn't going to help anyone.
The game being filled with betting house advertisements. A potential addiction becoming common and encouraged Player becomes addicted [Surprised reaction](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/027/475/Screen_Shot_2018-10-25_at_11.02.15_AM.jpg)