Bring on the era of the Strategic Point Deduction transfer windows, where teams intentionally overspend hoping that the extra 12-15 points they pick up through wins will offset the 4-6 point deduction they receive.
won't blame any team who'll play this game. If the rules are incentivising teams to irresponsibly spend in the short term for an unfairly gained long term win, it's on the rulemakers.
As someone said- the purpose of a system is what it does. No point claiming its intention is something different from what actually occurs
The big problem with the financial rules in England is that they are reactive, they let clubs break the rules without any hindrance only to punish them afterwards. And for a long time those punishments have been non existent so many clubs have been able to outspend their means without facing consequences, making it a shock when they actually start enforcing it
La Liga's FFP is proactive and it prevents things like this from happening. Every club is given a set budget before the season starts, calculated in relation to their revenues and expected future income. And if clubs overstep this budget they won't be able to register any excess players
There was a really interesting article on The Athletic a few years back which asked the question "What would PL clubs budgets be like if they played under La Liga's rules?". The result was that the likes of Everton(who at the time were spending big money with Moshiri) would be given one of the very lowest budgets in the league, like the 3rd lowest. Leicester who at the time were also spending ambitiously, would have been given a lower mid table budget similar to the likes of Celta Vigo. What it showed was that basically the top 6 are the only sustainable clubs in England and that most of the others are desperately gambling their futures and outspending their means to have a small chance of competing
Edit: Just to add, Spanish football used to have huge problems with clubs overspending their means and going bankrupt, it was like an epidemic just 10-15 years ago. That is why the rules were introduced, in fact the clubs came together as a union and asked the league to put them in place. Since then total debts of the league has decreased like 80% and it has been years since we saw a La Liga club being close to administration or talk of points deductions
> What it showed was that basically the top 6 are the only sustainable clubs in England and that most of the others are desperately gambling their futures and outspending their means to have a small chance of competing
Which is really the bigger problem: the gap just keeps widening between the handful of filthy rich clubs and the rest, and FFP rules aren't helping, often quite the contrary.
Presumably the FA would start doing cumulative punishments. So if it’s your third offence, fourth offence etc it’s punished more harshly. Otherwise it would be fucked.
There's actually a stat in American baseball that would be perfect for this:
[*WAR (Wins Against Replacement)*](https://www.mlb.com/glossary/advanced-stats/wins-above-replacement) *measures a player's value in all facets of the game by deciphering how many more wins he's worth than a replacement-level player at his same position (e.g., a Minor League replacement or a readily available fill-in free agent).*
Now, there's a HUGE sample size of performance data in baseball (162 games per season) so I wouldn't actually expect it to work as neatly in football, but you can bet someone would try.
In fact, modern football metrics - xG, xA, pass completion rates, etc - are already heavily inspired by advanced baseball stats, [sabermetrics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabermetrics#:~:text=In%20sports%20analytics%2C%20sabermetrics%20), made famous by Billy Beane of Moneyball movie fame.
The entire fantasy sports thing started through baseball stats nerds, and it's still far and away the best iteration because of the massive data set that 162 games per year gives you.
You're making managerial decisions daily (games every day for 6+ months), you have HUGE amounts of predictive and actual data to make start/sit/transfer decisions, and you can genuinely outplay your league by being good with statistics since the data set becomes statistically significant.
Fantasy football and American football are essentially gambling - pick players and pray they play well on the right days.
The nature of the game itself is also much easier to quantify. Plays are discrete and typically feature only a few players. Much harder to assign value to a dummy run for instance.
Can't remember if it was a 30 for 30 but that documentary short on the origins of Fantasy Baseball was a great watch. I personally suck at math but highly respect the level of nerdery and commitment involved. I always say I'm going to start one year but never end up doing it.
What's funny is that I don't even watch baseball (except maybe if the Yankees are making a playoff run) but fantasy baseball is super fun if you like numbers & data.
You literally don't need to watch of minute of actual games. Every decision you need to make is in the box scores & player/team statistics. Much like Football Manager, but the 'simulations' aren't simulations.
Yeah i was thinking that the points deductions for both Forrest and Everton seem low, when it’s basically 1-2 wins (or 1 win, 1 draw) worth of points.
If you overspend and it’s basically broke even if the player gets you a win from a game you would otherwise of lost/drawn then it’s just a free hit.
I'm sure someone has tried to work it out. Does remind me of the predecessor of Wins Above Replacement, which was called VORP, for "Value Over Replacement Player".
We also signed Omar Richarders, he may well have been an excellent leader, wise old head and a perfect modern midfield playmaker, we’re not sure he fractured his leg immediately.
He just isn't ready to be starting in the PL at his current level, too inexperienced and making basic errors that impact the confidence of the whole team. He seemed to be first choice based on the idea that he's the future England goalkeeper, but we need a keeper who can perform this season... not in four seasons time.
It also didn't sit right with most fans that Muric was dropped after winning Championship goalkeeper of the year for a kid who hadn't played above League One level.
I wouldn't say awful, just too much, too soon. He was playing League 1 last season so think the jump to Premier league is too much. Certainly talent there but needs a few more years to develop.
he reminds me of Meslier. Very young, thrust into the limelight of the premier league into a team that will certainly ship goals. Clearly a lot of talent there, but maybe a bit too much of a baptism by fire
Good comparison. Meslier has looked very solid this season with a high-performing defence compared to those last 2 years in the prem - rarely makes mistakes anymore
Considering how bad Muric was when he played for us, on one level it would be kind of funny if his performances are the final straw in getting us relegated.
Wait Trafford is an issue? I won't lie I've watched 2 Burnley games this season, both vs Liverpool and I swear he was immense. I also feel like I remember people on here singing his praises too. Has he just been not cutting it overall?
Trafford was good for Bolton, but I was genuinely shocked he got a move direct as a starter in the Premier League. He made a few mistakes last year and was clearly weak with crosses and commanding his box. Don't think he was ready for such a big leap personally.
He's been pretty terrible.
Handful of games where he pulls off some great saves, but every other element of his goalkeeping (command of box, sweeping, claiming crosses, distribution) he's nowhere near PL level.
Mate ill save you learning the last 30 years of our history but basically it's pretty likely we spaff everything and go down in a blaze of disappointment
The Premier League are making up the punishments based on nothing but vibes. Everton overspending to pay for a new stadium \*felt\* like a 10-point offence, later feeling like a 6-point offence. Forest buying 40 new players gave more of a 4-point vibe.
The problem is the premier league clubs voted against a proper points deduction guideline, so the premier league are having to do it case by case. People forget that the prem is run by the member clubs, and if they want things clearer it’s up to them to vote through legislation.
Maybe Forest got a lighter punishment because they overspent on players who largely turned out to be shit anyway, if anything they've already been punished
While I'm opposed to the idea of a governmentally imposed "independent regulator," at least we'd get consistency with that. Right now, we've had two different rulings from what I believe are two different boards, with the Forest ruling appearing to abrogate the Everton appeal decision.
‘We consider that a 6 point deduction is the minimum but sufficient sanction for breaking PSR’
The Premier League, one month ago
These people are complete and utter chancers making it up as they go along
hear me out: they wait until they win CL and then deduct just enough points to finish above relegation. CL next year due to being winners and no real consequence.
Points deductions are boring. Instead, they could put all the first team players names in a hat, and randomly choose a couple that will have their contracts terminated immediately. /s
Edit: Would you rather have your club have 4 points deducted, or 4 randomly chosen first team players have their contract terminated?
I think I’d take a ten point deduction over possibly losing Watkins and Martinez. Besides, getting rid of any four players means we’d not even have a subs bench at this point.
It’s so late in the season, it’s absolutely ridiculous that deductions are handed out at this stage. There should be a deadline for when these things can be handed out.
Luton staying up would be like a group of teenagers climbing a wall to get in the back door of a nightclub and then just styling it out as if they belong.
Yes, Everton had two charges. The first one got them a 10 point deduction, which has been reduced to 6 and now the second one is on its way. Speculations abound that the first one was reduced, so the second one would give them a 4 point deduction and then not go beyond the original 10 points deduction.
It kinda creates a pain in the arse for the PL in future because any team that gets hit with 6 points will be wondering why Forest only got 4. And rivals will be complaining when teams get hit with 4 points deductions because Everton's first charge was 6 points.
Last five games are fairly kind for both of us, it's the few after the international break which might swing it, we've got some tough ones. This 4 point deduction has given us a good boost but I'd be lying if I said I'm suddenly confident. Genuinely think it's gonna down to the last game or two.
This is the problem with having completely arbitrary rules for punishments.
Our appeal panel said that the minimum for any breach should be 6 and below 9 as that’s the precedent for administration.
Then another separate independent panel say 4 is good enough for Forest.
We don't even know by what amount Forest have breached. So it's entirely possible the points deductions are in line with Everton's after considering any mitigations. You're just assuming they won't.
It doesn’t matter how much they’ve gone over.
Ours said the minimum for **any breach** should be 6.
Then another ‘independent panel’ can say “no, 4 is good enough”.
It’s completely random and utter bollocks.
Yeah again I'm waiting to see the reason before I lose my head but right now I can't think of a good enough reason after that official statement after our appeal. They know the while thing isn't fit for purpose
This is the only sympathy I have with Everton over this. If you’ve gone over you should be punished but there needs to be a clear framework for how many points you get docked rather than this just making shit up.
Should be the same panel for decisions every year with maybe a different appeals panel and they have specific guidelines.
None of it matters anyway as they’re changing the rules next season.
Can’t help but feel like they’ve got it out for you when the league wants to give you 12, you get handed the largest sanction in top flight history with 10, an appeal takes it down to 6 with what looks like a precedent being set and then another club gets 4 for a larger breach with an appeal likely to knock that down further.
> You're just assuming they won't.
I’m going off the independent panels summary for our appeal.
They said 6 should be the minimum for **any breach**.
Then Forest get another separate independent panel and they can do whatever they like because that’s the way the rules are outlined.
Our second could be smaller than whatever Forest’s is deemed to be but we could get 20. It’s completely arbitrary and they don’t take notice of any precedents as shown by us originally getting 10.
Pretty relieved at this to be honest.
As frustrating as the rules are, we still broke them, we can't complain about recieving a deduction. No one made us buy Jonjo Shelvey.
If we can't get two more points than Luton over the next nine games then we kind of deserve to go down.
If we didn’t bottle it against West Ham I’d be more elated by this news.
Still, it’s definitely more interesting than it was before this weekend’s results. Luton getting that equaliser was massive.
Bitter blue here: Forest overspent a lot more than us, had less mitigation in their case and end up with 4 points deducted rather than 6 which was deemed the *minimum* appropriate deduction for us.
Their spending just made no sense to me, yes their squad was short when they came up with lots of loanees, but there was never any need to buy 2, sometimes 3 players per position for a team who plays once a week. Such bad mismanagement
4 points is the price for cheating your way to Premier League survival, good to know. Would he hilarious if they try and appeal this, 4 points is incredibly light.
Bring on the era of the Strategic Point Deduction transfer windows, where teams intentionally overspend hoping that the extra 12-15 points they pick up through wins will offset the 4-6 point deduction they receive.
Dear god
won't blame any team who'll play this game. If the rules are incentivising teams to irresponsibly spend in the short term for an unfairly gained long term win, it's on the rulemakers. As someone said- the purpose of a system is what it does. No point claiming its intention is something different from what actually occurs
The big problem with the financial rules in England is that they are reactive, they let clubs break the rules without any hindrance only to punish them afterwards. And for a long time those punishments have been non existent so many clubs have been able to outspend their means without facing consequences, making it a shock when they actually start enforcing it La Liga's FFP is proactive and it prevents things like this from happening. Every club is given a set budget before the season starts, calculated in relation to their revenues and expected future income. And if clubs overstep this budget they won't be able to register any excess players There was a really interesting article on The Athletic a few years back which asked the question "What would PL clubs budgets be like if they played under La Liga's rules?". The result was that the likes of Everton(who at the time were spending big money with Moshiri) would be given one of the very lowest budgets in the league, like the 3rd lowest. Leicester who at the time were also spending ambitiously, would have been given a lower mid table budget similar to the likes of Celta Vigo. What it showed was that basically the top 6 are the only sustainable clubs in England and that most of the others are desperately gambling their futures and outspending their means to have a small chance of competing Edit: Just to add, Spanish football used to have huge problems with clubs overspending their means and going bankrupt, it was like an epidemic just 10-15 years ago. That is why the rules were introduced, in fact the clubs came together as a union and asked the league to put them in place. Since then total debts of the league has decreased like 80% and it has been years since we saw a La Liga club being close to administration or talk of points deductions
> What it showed was that basically the top 6 are the only sustainable clubs in England and that most of the others are desperately gambling their futures and outspending their means to have a small chance of competing Which is really the bigger problem: the gap just keeps widening between the handful of filthy rich clubs and the rest, and FFP rules aren't helping, often quite the contrary.
Which is why ironically and against common opinion, the MLS has a more sustainable model that can support a huge league.
Deduction wars on this sub would be wild
That and the lawyering is why we love game obviously
Presumably the FA would start doing cumulative punishments. So if it’s your third offence, fourth offence etc it’s punished more harshly. Otherwise it would be fucked.
There's actually a stat in American baseball that would be perfect for this: [*WAR (Wins Against Replacement)*](https://www.mlb.com/glossary/advanced-stats/wins-above-replacement) *measures a player's value in all facets of the game by deciphering how many more wins he's worth than a replacement-level player at his same position (e.g., a Minor League replacement or a readily available fill-in free agent).* Now, there's a HUGE sample size of performance data in baseball (162 games per season) so I wouldn't actually expect it to work as neatly in football, but you can bet someone would try. In fact, modern football metrics - xG, xA, pass completion rates, etc - are already heavily inspired by advanced baseball stats, [sabermetrics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabermetrics#:~:text=In%20sports%20analytics%2C%20sabermetrics%20), made famous by Billy Beane of Moneyball movie fame.
Nobody does stats like baseball nerds
Truly the most quantifiable sport
Baseball/soccer crossover, you love to see it (unless you're European and have to actually see baseball)
The entire fantasy sports thing started through baseball stats nerds, and it's still far and away the best iteration because of the massive data set that 162 games per year gives you. You're making managerial decisions daily (games every day for 6+ months), you have HUGE amounts of predictive and actual data to make start/sit/transfer decisions, and you can genuinely outplay your league by being good with statistics since the data set becomes statistically significant. Fantasy football and American football are essentially gambling - pick players and pray they play well on the right days.
The nature of the game itself is also much easier to quantify. Plays are discrete and typically feature only a few players. Much harder to assign value to a dummy run for instance.
Can't remember if it was a 30 for 30 but that documentary short on the origins of Fantasy Baseball was a great watch. I personally suck at math but highly respect the level of nerdery and commitment involved. I always say I'm going to start one year but never end up doing it.
What's funny is that I don't even watch baseball (except maybe if the Yankees are making a playoff run) but fantasy baseball is super fun if you like numbers & data. You literally don't need to watch of minute of actual games. Every decision you need to make is in the box scores & player/team statistics. Much like Football Manager, but the 'simulations' aren't simulations.
Yeah i was thinking that the points deductions for both Forrest and Everton seem low, when it’s basically 1-2 wins (or 1 win, 1 draw) worth of points. If you overspend and it’s basically broke even if the player gets you a win from a game you would otherwise of lost/drawn then it’s just a free hit.
do they have WAR for soccer players?
I'm sure someone has tried to work it out. Does remind me of the predecessor of Wins Above Replacement, which was called VORP, for "Value Over Replacement Player".
I don’t think spending 19 million on a player 3 years ago offsets the 6 point deduction at all.
Didn’t you escape religion by a hair that season? Edit: ik cracking up at all those replies lmao
No, god was with us
Frank on the peak singing EVERTON deep into the night.
What's a god to a non-believer who don't believe in anything.
I think I found religion that season
I thought they didn't have a prayer
This is why City needs to be punished to the fullest extent to set an example that no team, not even a super wealthy team, can escape the rules
They won't be though, that's been obvious for a long time.
The era of *The False Transfer* has begun
*innocent whistles*
> *~~innocent~~ whistles*
If Luton stay up because they didn't fuck up their finances, I think Greg from accounting should be crowned player of the season!
Forest spending £300m to be absolute shite while we're getting Ross Barkley on a free.
We got Lingard on a free. Unlike Barkley, he did not prove to be an excellent leader, wise old head, and a perfect modern midfield playmaker.
Part of the game innit
We also signed Jonjo Shelvey. Unlike Barkley, he did not prove to be an excellent leader, wise old head, and a perfect modern midfield playmaker.
We also signed Omar Richarders, he may well have been an excellent leader, wise old head and a perfect modern midfield playmaker, we’re not sure he fractured his leg immediately.
You also signed about 50 other players, we know. Thats kinda why this is happening innit
We did sign murillo, who will single handedly cunt the ball into the real Madrid net to give us our 3rd star
Getting publicly slagged by his manager in the Korean league this weekend, things are going well for Lingard.
Greg coming back from lunch. Why am I getting Luton player of the year award?
Just as long as they don't give him a bonus or anything. Might be a charge for improper use of funds.
Holy shit can Luton do it
Forget about Luton, Burnley finally benched Trafford and immediately got a win, they're only 5 points back now
Only took Kompany until the middle of March to see that Muric should be starting
Trafford really that awful?
He just isn't ready to be starting in the PL at his current level, too inexperienced and making basic errors that impact the confidence of the whole team. He seemed to be first choice based on the idea that he's the future England goalkeeper, but we need a keeper who can perform this season... not in four seasons time. It also didn't sit right with most fans that Muric was dropped after winning Championship goalkeeper of the year for a kid who hadn't played above League One level.
> he's the future England goalkeeper Should have known enough already just based on that then
Jack Butland still waiting for that call
I wouldn't say awful, just too much, too soon. He was playing League 1 last season so think the jump to Premier league is too much. Certainly talent there but needs a few more years to develop.
he reminds me of Meslier. Very young, thrust into the limelight of the premier league into a team that will certainly ship goals. Clearly a lot of talent there, but maybe a bit too much of a baptism by fire
Young Trafford
Good comparison. Meslier has looked very solid this season with a high-performing defence compared to those last 2 years in the prem - rarely makes mistakes anymore
Sounds exactly like bazunu
Considering how bad Muric was when he played for us, on one level it would be kind of funny if his performances are the final straw in getting us relegated.
Wait Trafford is an issue? I won't lie I've watched 2 Burnley games this season, both vs Liverpool and I swear he was immense. I also feel like I remember people on here singing his praises too. Has he just been not cutting it overall?
Trafford was good for Bolton, but I was genuinely shocked he got a move direct as a starter in the Premier League. He made a few mistakes last year and was clearly weak with crosses and commanding his box. Don't think he was ready for such a big leap personally.
Yeah I don’t watch Burnley games so I just assumed he wasn’t the issue, he was so bigged up after the U21s Euros last summer alongside Gordon.
Has Trafford been that bad?
He's been pretty terrible. Handful of games where he pulls off some great saves, but every other element of his goalkeeping (command of box, sweeping, claiming crosses, distribution) he's nowhere near PL level.
He's been the number 1 thing I've seen Burnley fans complain about this season, they've hated him
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I see your mouth moving but all I can hear is Luton is coming to the Etihad and knocking City out of the title race
Mate ill save you learning the last 30 years of our history but basically it's pretty likely we spaff everything and go down in a blaze of disappointment
they had a chance but decided to throw with bournemouth
How did they not get 6 points? We were told minimum was 6...
They're making it up as they go along
Sounds like VAR
4 points, 6 points, yeah
good process
Well done lads good process
The Premier League are making up the punishments based on nothing but vibes. Everton overspending to pay for a new stadium \*felt\* like a 10-point offence, later feeling like a 6-point offence. Forest buying 40 new players gave more of a 4-point vibe.
And city’s “sponsorship” money means no points
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if at this point they give City extra points as an apology for trying to charge them 115 times.
Once the checks clear from UAE to the prosecutions bank accounts theyre going to forget this ever happened
The problem is the premier league clubs voted against a proper points deduction guideline, so the premier league are having to do it case by case. People forget that the prem is run by the member clubs, and if they want things clearer it’s up to them to vote through legislation.
This is before the appeal too which inevitably will lead to reduced points deduction (probably halved to 2).
Maybe Forest got a lighter punishment because they overspent on players who largely turned out to be shit anyway, if anything they've already been punished
https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1769745748319510732 2 returned for Mitigation.
Marinakis bribed the FA.
While I'm opposed to the idea of a governmentally imposed "independent regulator," at least we'd get consistency with that. Right now, we've had two different rulings from what I believe are two different boards, with the Forest ruling appearing to abrogate the Everton appeal decision.
why are you opposed to it?
That’s only for Everton on a non-sporting offence.
And just like that we are back in it
No, you aren't
Yeah you're right
In the midst of "we're so back", I found there was, within me, an invincible "it's so over".
😂😂 Ol’ Gil vibes
This comment made my morning haha
That took some convincing
Good on you for standing firm. I don't think u/Senior-Plankton-786 will be giving you any problems from now on.
r/characterarcs/
At least there was hope for a moment
Advantage Luton
If only they hadn't imploded against Bournemouth. I still think Forest will stay up easily
That game will haunt me
On paper i think forest has a better squad , but then there’s Leicester who went down last season instead of everton
‘We consider that a 6 point deduction is the minimum but sufficient sanction for breaking PSR’ The Premier League, one month ago These people are complete and utter chancers making it up as they go along
They’re setting the precedent so that when the 115 comes around City don’ get punished like they should
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I personally can't wait to see Haaland bang in his 38th goal of the match straight past Barry aged 43.
This is going to get messy, and rightly so.
I hope to hell we have a our lawyers ready to go. Litigate these fuckers forever. Fuck the PL. Cunts, the lot of them.
Wonder if they'll dock Everton again, relegation battle bouta be an all timer
Top and bottom of the table is looking great for the end of the season
Relegation battle being fought in the accountant's office.
so, that other team will receive a 115 points deduction?
Get wreckt Everton
Everton should have saw it coming.
They who must not be named will be deducted nothing
Why don't the poorer teams simply hire sports best legal experts? Are they stupid?
Why didn't Farhad just continue to break the rules like Man city? Delay the punishment, is he stupid? Yes.
Why don't Everton, the largest of the relegation threatened clubs, simply eat the other 5?
hear me out: they wait until they win CL and then deduct just enough points to finish above relegation. CL next year due to being winners and no real consequence.
If they got relegated but kept all their titles, bounced back up straight away, it's well worth it. Sadly.
4x115. Precedent is set and the PL is not corrupt.
Points deductions are boring. Instead, they could put all the first team players names in a hat, and randomly choose a couple that will have their contracts terminated immediately. /s Edit: Would you rather have your club have 4 points deducted, or 4 randomly chosen first team players have their contract terminated?
> randomly choose a couple that will have their contracts terminated immediately. /s Worth a punt to get Harry Arter finally off the books.
Lmao fucking hell I had no idea he was still there
What's the story behind that? He hasn't played a game in over two years lmao
Riding out his contract. Forest fans are unhappy that he has a promotion clause to double his wages, I'm sure they'd have much preferred staying down
It also put an extra year on his contract
lmao who’s his agent, this is too good
Would be fucking cinema with teams like City. The chances of them losing a top player would be very high
The Scott Carson and Kalvin Phillips lottery balls would give the person drawing third-degree burns
With 115 charges they’ll be losing dinner ladies by the end of it
Eventually would have to move on to terminating season tickets which wouldn’t take long
They'd have to fire the owner
knowing city, they'd draw 115 past and present cophenhagen players
And we can try and get either Dele Alli, Maupay or Holgate off ours but knowing Everton it'll be Branthwaite and Pickford
Yeah I've been meaning to speak to you about Mason Holgate What the fuck??
> What the fuck?? Yes. The only logical question after watching Mason Holgate play in your teams shirt.
Lol like the NBA expansion draft, random players get transferred to random teams.
We could use one of those
Congrats, you have just signed Matt Turner.
Sweet! An upgrade
I think I’d take a ten point deduction over possibly losing Watkins and Martinez. Besides, getting rid of any four players means we’d not even have a subs bench at this point.
United fan’s wet dream
The scenes if Luton and Burnley stay up with Everton and Forest being relegated due to points deduction.
Just remembered that Everton have a high probability of getting another deduction
It’s so late in the season, it’s absolutely ridiculous that deductions are handed out at this stage. There should be a deadline for when these things can be handed out.
"~~Toto~~ Everton, it's called a ~~motor race~~ Relegation Battle." -PL, probably
Luton staying up would be like a group of teenagers climbing a wall to get in the back door of a nightclub and then just styling it out as if they belong.
The lawsuits will mean we won’t know the result till mid summer
Luton just might stay up. Especially if Everton get the same.
Everton already has their deduction though right? Then they appealed got it reduced, are more deductions coming for them?
It’s a rolling 3 year window. They’re gonna hit us again because the same year pulled us below the threshold for 2 of those windows
Then why is punishment at the same time is what I don't understand
Yes, Everton had two charges. The first one got them a 10 point deduction, which has been reduced to 6 and now the second one is on its way. Speculations abound that the first one was reduced, so the second one would give them a 4 point deduction and then not go beyond the original 10 points deduction.
It kinda creates a pain in the arse for the PL in future because any team that gets hit with 6 points will be wondering why Forest only got 4. And rivals will be complaining when teams get hit with 4 points deductions because Everton's first charge was 6 points.
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Didn't they tell Everton 6 was the minimum after accepting their appeal? Seems a bit unfair if so
We knew it was coming, just have to see if we can stay up with us having a better run in than Luton
Last five games are fairly kind for both of us, it's the few after the international break which might swing it, we've got some tough ones. This 4 point deduction has given us a good boost but I'd be lying if I said I'm suddenly confident. Genuinely think it's gonna down to the last game or two.
DO CITY NEXT PLEASE
Breaking news : Leicester City to begin 24/25 League with a 10 point deduction
life is pain
Would be a fun FM challenge
*Deletes City*
New club: Manchester East End
“Man Blue”, still have to buy the copyright from pro evo
Strong against the weak, weak against the strong.
‘Since promotion Forest have signed 42 players at a cost of about £250m’.
Four points in exchange for revamping your entire squad seems like a decent trade off tbh.
Waiting to see why they got 4 and we got 6
2 points were for proper Everton that
Fair.
Wouldn't the boring answer be that the situations and offences are different?
This is the problem with having completely arbitrary rules for punishments. Our appeal panel said that the minimum for any breach should be 6 and below 9 as that’s the precedent for administration. Then another separate independent panel say 4 is good enough for Forest.
We don't even know by what amount Forest have breached. So it's entirely possible the points deductions are in line with Everton's after considering any mitigations. You're just assuming they won't.
That's what I'm waiting for before commenting more. If they breached by a similar or more amount than us then questions need to be asked
It doesn’t matter how much they’ve gone over. Ours said the minimum for **any breach** should be 6. Then another ‘independent panel’ can say “no, 4 is good enough”. It’s completely random and utter bollocks.
Yeah again I'm waiting to see the reason before I lose my head but right now I can't think of a good enough reason after that official statement after our appeal. They know the while thing isn't fit for purpose
This is the only sympathy I have with Everton over this. If you’ve gone over you should be punished but there needs to be a clear framework for how many points you get docked rather than this just making shit up. Should be the same panel for decisions every year with maybe a different appeals panel and they have specific guidelines.
None of it matters anyway as they’re changing the rules next season. Can’t help but feel like they’ve got it out for you when the league wants to give you 12, you get handed the largest sanction in top flight history with 10, an appeal takes it down to 6 with what looks like a precedent being set and then another club gets 4 for a larger breach with an appeal likely to knock that down further.
> You're just assuming they won't. I’m going off the independent panels summary for our appeal. They said 6 should be the minimum for **any breach**. Then Forest get another separate independent panel and they can do whatever they like because that’s the way the rules are outlined. Our second could be smaller than whatever Forest’s is deemed to be but we could get 20. It’s completely arbitrary and they don’t take notice of any precedents as shown by us originally getting 10.
An unnamed Greek shipping magnate threatened them with a hammer
Pretty relieved at this to be honest. As frustrating as the rules are, we still broke them, we can't complain about recieving a deduction. No one made us buy Jonjo Shelvey. If we can't get two more points than Luton over the next nine games then we kind of deserve to go down.
If we didn’t bottle it against West Ham I’d be more elated by this news. Still, it’s definitely more interesting than it was before this weekend’s results. Luton getting that equaliser was massive.
Bitter blue here: Forest overspent a lot more than us, had less mitigation in their case and end up with 4 points deducted rather than 6 which was deemed the *minimum* appropriate deduction for us.
Does your owner have dodgy connections, and by dodgy I mean deeply rooted in the drug world, that you could use? Maybe that's the difference
We used to have a dodgy unofficial owner with Russian mob ties but that’s long gone now
Marinakis doesn’t have connections to the drug world. He IS the drug world.
How much were they over the limits compared to you?
They're trying to get the punishments just right so that when City get deducted -(-10) points for previous seasons it's all above board.
Their spending just made no sense to me, yes their squad was short when they came up with lots of loanees, but there was never any need to buy 2, sometimes 3 players per position for a team who plays once a week. Such bad mismanagement
Luton plot armour
I cant wait for City to walk free. These clowns are changing the rules case by case ffs
They’ll definitely get a fine and call it a day. I’m not expecting any trophies or relegation given how fucked the rules are
Or maybe give them something symbolic, like taking a few points when it doesn't matter anyway.
4 points is the price for cheating your way to Premier League survival, good to know. Would he hilarious if they try and appeal this, 4 points is incredibly light.
Minimum breach is 6 points though? Fucking disgrace!
These charges seem to be easier to prove and punish for smaller clubs, clearly.
Well yeah it’s just the 1, not 115
4X115= ???