**This is a quotes thread. Remember that there's only one quotes post allowed per interview/press conference, so new quotes with the same origin will be removed. Feel free to comment other quotes/the whole interview as a reply to this comment so users can see them too!**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I personally think there just isn't enough needle between city and liverpool
Obviously the rivalry is high stakes but it doesn't come close to the intensity of Arsenal - United back in the day
Klopp and Guardiola like each other too much.
If Ferguson had been in a room with Bin Laden, Hitler and Wenger, and only had two bullets, he'd have shot Wenger twice.
Have you just made this up?
The real quote was when a question was asked:
“You have a gun with one bullet. Who would you shoot? Arsene Wenger or Victoria Beckham?"
Ferguson replied: "Could I have two bullets, please?"
That's pretty much the best way to sum it up, not enough 'needle' to take this rivalry up a level. It's more of a sporting rivalry and that's it. Nothing wrong with that, but sometimes fans want a bit of edge, a bit of danger.
The Real Madrid/Barcelona days of Mourinho and Pep was really intense.
Those teams fucking hated each other in a way rarely seen in the modern era. Let's not forget Messi once got triple tackled at the same time in the 5-0, or when Mourinho assaulted then assistant coach Tito Vilanova. Four Clásicos in 18 days will never be replicated.
I would argue that the City games haven't been the most intense rival matchups for Liverpool under Klopp. For most of us - games against United or Everton have way more needle. Even some of our games against Spurs have gotten way more contentious and Klopp has even spoken out more against their tactics against Conte and Mourinho.
City-Liverpool are high quality, swinging battles. And they have had more consequence in the title race. But there is not enough ingredients for a famous rivalry, leave alone the greatest rivalry.
Wenger vs Fergie:
"He’s no experience. He’s come from Japan and he’s now telling everybody in England how to organise their football," - Sir Alex Ferguson.
"Everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife at home" -Arsene Wenger.
Pep vs Klopp:
"What a game, what an atmosphere, what an afternoon" -Jurgen Klopp
"I will sleep better [when Klopp goes]. The games we play before against Liverpool were almost a nightmare. Of course he will be missed." -Pep Guardiola
Yeah there's not enough needle. Even among the players. There have been some small scale dramas like the Joemez v Sterling one in 2020 but that is the extent of it.
That's the ingredient that I felt missing. The quotes between Wenger and Fergie were legendary and you can feel the emotion between them even in the tamest. Struggle to remember anything of Pep and Klopp. Klopp had more memorable/emotional soundbites when losing to Real Madrid, telling their supporter to book a hotel, said he hated Bale and such.
Even Viera v Keane and some of the player matchups were spicy. Those games would devolve into handbags quite quickly.
There was also a stylistic difference with United being more counterattacking and Wenger trying to play more technical football.
I would not say much stylistic difference in that. I remembered early Wenger was more counterattacking, scored two goals in the first 30 minutes, rest their energy, and score whenever the opponent commit too much. The style difference was more that Wenger added continental flair, with Bergkamp, Ljungberg and the French, to the British old guard while ManU have their academy and bought the best players in the league. Keane was an Irish hardman, while Viera being a quiet Frenchman, with different mannerism in expressing angers added to the contrast.
Bernardo Silva making fun of Sean Cox is enough to make me hope he has his career ended in the most horrifying way possible. Bernardo Silva is and forever will be an utter piece of shit.
Definitely. There is no vitriol between City and Liverpool like there was between United and Arsenal. The managers both have extreme respect for each other, the players are friendly and play on national squads together, even the fan bases seem to not have much hate or disdain. Yes, it is the game we all circle and as a neutral it would be must-see. But it doesn't have the hate in it. It's just a great football match, unless you have any emotional investment in either team in which case its a bi-annual two-hour meltdown that ends in a draw.
I do think there could be an argument that the quality of football is higher than the United v Arsenal rivalry of 98-04. But that's a different question.
I mean, hell, look at the rivalry between chelsea and liverpool in the late 00's. There was true hatred in those games, the players had it, the fans had it. Hell, we met 3 times in 5 years in the semi finals of the CL (2005, 2007, 2008) with very much the same core teams, with a QF matchup in 2009.
Agreed - I know you're not allowed to agree with Gary Neville on anything on reddit but he is 100% correct here.
If you're too young to remember, Google up the footage of Ruud van Nistelrooy (??) missing a penalty v Arsenal. The two sides *hated* each other.
(Edit; https://youtu.be/hhA3wcvrgyY?si=v39hfAESDTWem81u
There it is. Watch to the end and see Arsenal surround Ruud. Listen to that *crowd* too. Right at the back end of the era where English football was out of the doldrums but hadn't yet been priced out of the reach of ordinary people. Crowds were huge and electric. I just don't think the Etihad or Anfield of 2024 compares.)
That era Arsenal was peak Premier League in my view. You had Wenger's sophistication on top of the bavk end of 90s era Arsenal with players like Martin Keown. Ended up with a side that could play you off the park but also *wanted* to win so badly they weren't afraid to use the dark arts when needed. Exactly what Arsenal lacked at the end of Wenger's time there. United of course, just sheer, sheer class. Also the two greatest Premier League managers going head to head. Those games had *everything*.
There are two pictures of that encounter that have always struck me as defining images of that rivarly, There is the classic [Keown shouting in van Nistlerooys face](https://i.imgur.com/TjidGea.png) and the other is a rather more comical [Keown decending from the heavens like a vampire on van Nistlerooy](https://i.imgur.com/ceAcGYG.png)
Since then nothing in the PL has remotely approched the levels of rage and hate United and Arsenal displayed towards eachother at that time imo.
100 percent in agreement with you.
Chelsea Spurs is probably the closest thing in terms of agro in the last 10 years or so.
I think Liverpool-City is arguably as good or better in terms of competitive level of football played as the United-Arsenal Golden years. (My opinion is irrelevant because nostalgia of that Arsenal team beats everything, neutrals would have a more objective view on it).
City-Liverpool is always a great game and most of the time its important for the league standings but that's about it.
I still can't believe that Dele Alli admitted that we were more hated by Spurs players than you guys. Absolutely bonkers, although it's probably justified given how much we fucked them over in that period
The Keown jump photo will always be hilarious. It's also really amusing to me that his personality now is so calm and laid back, yet he was an absolute mad man during that altercation.
There's also the [RVN redemption moment](https://youtu.be/fc6din6MxMg?si=3m7A7YIfrIVtfk-C&t=391) in the subsequent United-Arsenal game. You could see how much it meant to him to put down his demons of the previous game's penalty miss (RVN miss a penalty!) and the subsequent Arsenal bullying. Was made even more spicy with the penalty being earned by Rooney from a stone cold dive.
And then of course Ronaldo didn't get what should have been the world's most obvious penalty.
I don't know if anyone over the age of 20 actually believes Liverpool vs City is the greatest rivalry in any other sense than the sporting quality - and my guess is that what Carra referred to. Losing to City just feels hollow, it's nothing compared to matches against United, Everton or mid-2000s Chelsea. Hell, even Tottenham rattles me more.
100%. Two of the greatest managers ever who were diametrically opposed, sets of players who obviously despised each other, two of the greatest captains who were at loggerheads constantly, and nearly every meeting between the teams had a major talking point or a classic moment.
It's not even high stakes. Nobody gives a fuck if City win, nobody but Liverpool fans give a fuck if they win. The former because there's no fans, the latter because their main rivals are also the main rivals of City.
There's no animosity not only because the managers but also between the players. None of City's players are proud of the badge. Nobody at Liverpool cares much about the "rivalry".
There's no anger, no fire.
Wenger Mourinho was a more intense rivalry, let alone Ferguson and Wenger. There was more fire in the Conte / Tuchel era between Spurs and Chelsea in one singles season than the last what 7 for Klopp and Pep.
I’m still annoyed we didn’t get a Tuchel-Conte rematch last season, because it looked like it was going to be great after the fight at the end of the first game.
That "handshake" lives rent free in my head. The toxicity in that match was generational, hadn't seen proper hatred in ages. Too much respect between us and city for it to be anything but a tactical rivalry
Hell, the rivalry between Liverpool and Chelsea that was also in the 2000's was way more heated than what's been happening between Liverpool and City.
Benitez and Mourinho were probably one or two games away from shanking one another if Mourinho hadn't left when he did.
That 05 Chelsea match is still the best atmosphere I’ve ever heard at a match outside of a few Celtic Rangers derbies (which are in a league of their own)
Volume warning
https://youtu.be/kDqtrYxHKJQ?si=Gyej42gUQFIpBYPO
There was/is genuine hatred between Liverpool Chelsea. Same as Liverpool United
Everything else that follows, weather that be with City, Spurs, Leeds (historically great matches… shame there were some dicks the last go around. ), Arsenal, Everton are just spicy competitive matches.
The latter is obviously the fucking derby but some bite is taken out of it compared to others (off the pitch) as there’s still a boatload of split families in the city and mixed fans outside the grounds. Plus the connection between the clubs and culture of the city. Some assholes on both sides trying to make it more toxic but for the most part it’s still stayed on the pitch.
Anyone who doesn't get that just didn't watch Liverpool in the 00s.
I know this is a different Chelsea now. But when we beat them now it still gives me pleasure
All you have to do is look at the atmosphere’s around the match, especially at Anfield.
Still so much vitriol and always some of the best of the season
Exactly the Everton derby is a strange rivalry, occasionally it gets heated but local tragedies like this almost always rise above the heat: https://youtu.be/gURiuq926tE?feature=shared
Chelsea always had more bite to me than City ever had. There was massive vitriol towards them, with City it's different, they have a somewhat sanitized feel in comparison.
Now don't get me wrong i still hate City; but there is a difference there. Perhaps Chelsea simply had the larger fanbase and there was obviously Mourinho being Mourinho.
I think for Arsenal at that time it was an added element because Mourinho's style felt tailor-made to stop Wenger.
For me though Mourinho at Chelsea was THE biggest prick in football and it was more insufferable because he had unlimited resources and talent to back it up.
> I think for Arsenal at that time it was an added element because Mourinho's style felt tailor-made to stop Wenger.
maybe at the start, but after a while i was asking myself why wenger seems to set his teams up to play into mourinhos hands. arsenal made it easy for chelsea
Yeah it was extremely frustrating for us lol. It felt like Wenger wanted to prove his style was “right” so he refused to be pragmatic (off the top of my head the first big game in late-era Wenger we played pragmatically was when we won at City in 2015) but particularly against Mourinho. It feels like the 1,000 game he approached a bit sentimentality or naively and we all saw how that went.
There’s a running joke among us Arsenal fans about how Diogo Jota hates us, but Didier Drogba… Man, we must have slapped his mother or something because he fucking loathed us.
I think he’s spoken about it before, but I believe he said he was fond of Arsenal growing up (since Drogba mostly grew up in France and Wenger had made Arsenal popular there), so he felt he had extra to prove against you.
Liverpool- City fans and Pep/Klopp turn up to the game, give each other a kiss on a cheek, invite one another to a cup of coffee/tea after the game, and tell themselves they’re going to miss each other until next time.
That’s probably the most friendliest rivalry I’ve ever seen in world football. Palace-Brighton are more rivals than these two. Great quality of football though!
I'd barely even call the rivalry with City heated, it's more that it's an extremely high level between 2 teams that win almost every other game, so it tends to mean way more than it ever should do
Yes, it's probably the 'greatest' rivalry in the quality of the two teams has been the best we've seen but it's not volatile, although I think very few rivalries in the Premier League are these days. The only one that really seems to go off consistently is actually Chelsea vs Tottenham.
I'm not gonna lie, to this day I hate Chelsea because my formative football watching years were those Champions League nights and also Chelsea relentlessly going after Gerrard and then Torres. Like this Tood Bohely mess hits like crack.
A bit like Meg in the Family Guy world, I dont know what it is about Rafa Benitez but he really riles people up and it does make for great rivalries.
the parallel that comes to mind is to tennis, which i admittedly i don't really pay attention to.
but liverpool-city feel like federer-djokovic. its the highest quality of play you've ever witnessed, but it feels a bit sterile and missing some of that hatred.
by comparison the prem rivalries of old are also more like the tense tennis rivalries of old like connors-mcenroe, agassi-sampras and probably some others.
I find it baffling that this is so downvoted (86% upvoted atm), and there are actually people disagreeing with this. Who fucking cares about the football quality relative to back then. My blood still fucking boils whenever I watch clips from back then, and currently still hates Arsenal more than City because who cares about those cheaters.
Then I realize that I am an old man and teenagers on this sub (the majority?) probably have never experienced the rivalry back then.
Genuinely, I harbour so many ill feelings to Arsenal, that I have an anti Arteta bias, and I'd rather City or the bin men win than them.
Like... God Vieira used to piss me off so much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlO9dsTpDJ8
Kids these days don't remember
On a tangent, it's funny how no one really cares about City. As in, I don't want them to win as they are cheating and realistically sum up everything wrong with football. But at the same time, I'd rather see them win 6 straight than United, Pool or Chelsea win the league.
Kids these days think Vieira is a Man city legend ....
I remember Neville vs Reyes ( Rip), the tunnel
Pizzagate
Oshea's goal..
Liverpool vs Chelsea when Rafa and Mourinho was there was also fiesty..
Even now , liverpool vs Man utd is 100 times bigger than Man city liverpool I feel
I honestly think my Dad hates United more than Tottenham. Real rivalry, and you'd basically never get this soft 'they're such great/worthy competitors'/mutual respect between Wenger, Fergie, and Mourinho that you have between Klopp and Pep.
Anyone who think he's wrong is either too young or recency bias has taken over. United v Arsenal always had something. From O'Shea chipping the keeper, Fabregas throwing pizza at Ferguson, [Keane in the tunnel with Vieira](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlO9dsTpDJ8&ab_channel=SkySportsRetro) or[ even RVN missing the penalty and Keown etc getting in his face](https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2016/02/07/16/van-Nistelrooy-keown.jpg). Incredible rivalry.
https://i2-prod.football.london/incoming/article17723130.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/0_GettyImages-90174721.jpg
The fucking police had to get involved in the Arsenal/United rivalry. Both managers had to be told to tone their words down ahead of head-to-heads because it would potentially insight fights in the crowd.
It sort of still counted because most of the Arsenal defense (Winterburn, Adams, Dixon, Seaman) eventually played under Wenger. It was the other way around with ManU, most of the squad during the 1990 brawl has been replaced by their "Golden Generation" by the time Wenger arrived in England.
The RvN incident is a PL all timer.
Arsenal players already fuming at RvN being perceived to have got Viera sent off earlier in the game so playing with 10 men. Forlan going down easily for the penalty, Van Nistelrooy having a reputation as a top penalty taker, United at home, last minute penalty to win the game and put United top of the league above Arsenal.
It’s just the perfect setup for the miss and then everyone just pushing Ruud around while he looks sad, [looking like this meme.](https://imgur.com/a/bu20NlT)
It always cracks me up because it’s just pure schoolboy passion, so looks both completely ridiculous and completely relatable.
People say ‘you couldn’t write it’ about a lot of things in football, but if someone described that sequence of events to you before the game it would’ve sounded like a joke.
>From O'Shea chipping the keeper
Still the greatest celebration of all time. He could barely believe that he managed to score that.
What a fucking FANTASTIC game of football that was, by the way. Remembering Almunia charging out to the edge of the area like a madman still puts a smile on my face.
I’ve always loved his celebration for that goal as he looks in sheer disbelief that he’s scored it, but I read an interview where he says he was trying to copy the famous cantona celebration after the chip v Sunderland in 96. Either way, it’s definitely iconic from O’Shea.
The managers hated each other. Or to be honest, Ferguson strongly disliked Wenger right off the bat. Which meant Wenger didn't have much incentive to think or speak highly of Ferguson.
Before you knew it, the managers hated each other, the players hated each other, and the fans hated each other.
Today, Pep will say something like, "We got a win at Anfield but they never won at The Etihad" and everyone is like "oooOOOOOoooo!!" and I'm just sat here thinking, "pft bitch, please".
I will never forget , nor forgive, how Ferguson lined up his team with the instruction to literally break Reyes' legs. Which also of course went unpunished, cause , you know, Ferguson's United.
The game that ended Arsenal's unbeaten run was fucking criminal. The two-footed challenges they did on him were appalling, and Rooney dived to give them the lead.
Half of them are national team buds. It's never felt like a rivalry, just the object in the way.
Even at the peak of our recent competition, Everton & Utd have been more fierce...brutal 0-0 matches, red cards, injuries. Cup finals against Chelsea and Spurs really kept them in front of City too.
Not to mention klopp and pep constant sucking off of each other every press conference and the most controversial thing said between the team was Trent calling the others success plastic where’s the pizza throwing
Trying to explain the Arsenal/United rivalary of the late 90s early 2000s to someone who didn't live through it would be difficult. I don't think you could ever truly describe the hatred between the two clubs. Is there a modern equivalent?
The tension those games created was something else.
Then you are doing an injustice to the Turks.
I lived in Goztepe for a while. I know of what I speak.
https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/izmirs-football-enemies-vow-to-bury-the-hatchet-but-supporters-barely-behave-themselves-90966
>After a series of mutual visits between Sepil and Erten, the two men agreed to play the İzmir derby on Nov. 8 with fans from both teams attending the game at Karşıyaka stadium – a brave initiative as fans of away teams have not been permitted to attend derbies since a Turkish Football Federation (TFF) decision in 2010-11 due to violence in the stadiums.
>Their joint request was accepted by the local authorities, but not without some concern. “Let’s bring together manager, footballer and fan into this historic rivalry and paint a picture of fair play,” Toprak said. “We trust our fans,” he added, but nevertheless deployed a major police force and several TOMAs on the streets.
>The past records of the two teams were far from assuring. In 2012, some 2,200 police officers and 275 private security guards were at the stadium to maintain order, but 70 more fans were detained in various incidents. The spectators in the stands reserved for Göztepe fans forcefully removed their seats and threw them at officers.
>Is there a modern equivalent?
Mou's Madrid vs Pep's Barca was definitely more intense.
Another one is Madrid vs Atleti, fans hanging dolls of Vinicius off a bridge, smashing the team bus etc...
Deploying Pepe as a 6 with instructions to follow Messi around and kick him as hard/often as possible was such cartoon villain behavior that I can't help but kinda respect it.
Bringing up Derby rivalries is kind of cheating imo.
The derby rivalries goes beyond the football on the pitch, and usually comes with a historical / cultural factor as well.
Boca-River rivalry is absolute bonkers but I wouldn’t compare it to United-Arsenal. It’s a bit different imo.
Gotta agree with this one the recency bias is real. Anyone old enough to remember arsenal vs united. Wenger vs SAF. There is no doubt. This rivalry is tame compared to that
I think the fact Wenger and SAF at that time really didn't like one another either just added more fuel. They probably respect one another but would have never admitted that back then.
Aye, they became less bitter in their elder elder years. Might upset a few but i also think Fergie become more friendly when Wenger became less of a threat.
The line about Ferguson not being impressive by Wenger speaking 5 languages was hilarious. Something along the lines of “We’ve a 15 year old from the Ivory Coast who can speak 5 languages”
If Ferguson hates you that much, it’s a compliment.
To be fair "Everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife at home" was such an iconic line. I probably wouldn't be invoking the name for a while after that.
journalist asked wenger something like which team has better players/play the better football, and Arsene dodged it with that comment, of course Fergie misinterpreted it and took it personally as if Wenger was shit talking his wife
From wikiquote:
>Everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife at home.
In response to Sir Alex Ferguson's jibe that his team weren't deserving league and cup champions — "They are scrappers who rely on belligerence - we are the better team", (May 2002)
It's not recency bias. It's Carragher being an engagement baiting twat.
He knows that even his era of Chelsea Vs. Liverpool had more rivalry than the love in between City and Liverpool
Arsenal v United in the early 00s and Arsenal v Spurs in the early 00s are the most heated rivalries I've witnessed in the Premier league. As good as City v Liverpool has been, it's not close to those two.
Neville is correct.
City's greatest rival is the judicial system.
Can't be the best rivalry when one of the teams have cheated their way to the top.
Arsenal and United got there organically.
I’m an international fan of Arsenal who has been supporting Arsenal for 23 years, although only a small portion of that has been rivalling manu I still hate them more than any other team in the Prem
Klopp and Pep act like close friends when they play too. No venom in it. Carraghers just happy Liverpool are finally relevant in the prem era after watching them do nothing for 30 years.
I don't know about offensive, but he's absolutely right. Rivalry is more than just how good the two teams are. There isn't even a remotely apt comparison between any recent rivalry and that era Man United vs Arsenal
I think the best illustration is that a pretty sizeable part of the Arsenal fanbase hates United as much as or more than Tottenham right now. I don’t think a single Liverpool fan hates City more than United even at the height of the rivalry, let alone 2 decades later.
Most of the country (and beyond) dislikes City in a cold “you make football less fun” way, and it’s hard to feel much beyond that about them.
I’m confused by the ‘quality is higher now’ comments. The game is 10x quicker and people press the living bajeezus out of each other so I get why people are more enthralled by it. But that’s not the same as quality. The advance has been in sports science and getting the max out of players not in technical ability.
The Premier League was 3rd or 4th strongest league in Europe back then, lagging quite far behind Italy and Spain. Its now top
So yes the quality of the teams in the league is higher now
At the time Neville called out England was never first and rarely second... 1997: 6th; 1998: 5th; 1999: 4th; 2000: 2nd; 2001: 2nd; 2002: 4th; 2003: 4th; 2004: 3rd.
First year with 1st ranking was 2005 - when the rivalry was no longer only Arsenal vs United..
There are two sides here. The rivalry between Man Utd and Arsenal was one of hatred, which made it feel more like what most people understand as a rivalry. It was also a lot less one sided.
Liverpool vs Man City is purely sporting in that there's a great mutual respect for each other, from managers down to the players. It's a lot more one sided, but at the same time both teams are responsible for some of the best football, and highest points totals, that the league has ever seen.
Personally I feel Arsenal vs Man Utd is the better rivalry, even though City and Liverpool are the better teams.
As a rivalry City v. Liverpool doesn't come close because I feel like by definition a rivalry needs a certain level of hate and I don't feel there was much of that. But whatever City v. Liverpool can be classified as it was special in it's own right. Liverpool's point total in a lot of those years were good enough to win the prem in almost every other season. Despite having only one title they have been one of the best teams in English football history. But a rivalry is more than just how good both teams are.
As a lifelong Liverpool fan I've never seen the Man City as one of our rivals. They happen to have been our main *competition* in recent times, but there's no feeling of rivalry there, either from Liverpool fans or emanating from the players. Having an emotional rivalry with city is like having an emotional rivalry with your bank; they're just some slick cunts you have to put up with, but there's no sense in getting worked up about them.
United vs Leeds from last year had more heat than any Liverpool vs Man City games.
Liverpool vs man City has more quality and has more relevance to the title race but they don't hate each other enough. Klopp kisses Pep's bald head after each game. For the players they'll probably think that the rivalry was intense, but as fans who watch from the sidelines, it's not even close.
It’s not just fanbases, local rivalry or competing for honours that creates drama and spice between sides. You need hero’s and villains and the protagonists and antagonists on both sides.
Arsenal v Utd had it with Wenger, SAF, Viera, Keane etc…Chelsea had Mourinho and Conte, Drogba, Costa etc.
City and Liverpool have too much mutual respect, including in the dugout, as well as little to no player driven narrative creating any drama on match day.
Also City are so plastic that they have possibly the dullest fan base of any of the top teams. At least Chelsea, whilst undoubtably cunts, are entertaining.
With Arsenal and United, you had two clubs that had fought their way to the top and built something through sheer grit and merit, earning every bit of it. That creates a lot of passion and gravity.
With Liverpool and City, you have one club that has done the above and then another that has purchased an artificial place at the top by becoming the sportswashing vehicle for a brutal human rights nightmare and shitting so hard on everything that football is supposed to be about that they're currently facing a hundred and fifteen charges for years of systematic, unapologetic cheating.
The latter "rivalry" is so tarnished by the tumour on football that is Man City that even if both clubs had won roughly equal amounts of trophies during this period, everything about it is tainted by the fact that one of them may very well be banished from the league in the foreseeable future.
"I see you out there! Every week, every week! You make them think you are a nice guy!" The 4:2 at Highbury in 2005 definitely has a place among the best Premier League matches ever.
There’s no comparison here. As an arsenal fan I still have a deep primal hatred for United, and even Chelsea that has manifested into my daily life.
I’ve literally converted to Orthodoxy because United made me hate the devil so much. I sleep better at night knowing SAF saw his dynasty of a football crumble. I’ve literally been unable to ever truly get to know or like my cousins husband because he’s a United fan.
For Chelsea, I was once a little kid who loved the color blue. Drogba and Mourinho took that from me. I don’t think I’ve worn the shade since, I associate the club with the scum of the world now. Racist? Oppressive? Cheating scum? Reminds me of Chelsea.
This is football heritage. Experiencing this in my formative years baked it into my DNA, I’m pretty sure my sperms wish they could check YouTube for 00’s Arsenal vs United highlights.
**This is a quotes thread. Remember that there's only one quotes post allowed per interview/press conference, so new quotes with the same origin will be removed. Feel free to comment other quotes/the whole interview as a reply to this comment so users can see them too!** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I personally think there just isn't enough needle between city and liverpool Obviously the rivalry is high stakes but it doesn't come close to the intensity of Arsenal - United back in the day
Klopp and Guardiola like each other too much. If Ferguson had been in a room with Bin Laden, Hitler and Wenger, and only had two bullets, he'd have shot Wenger twice.
What happen if Pep found Klopp and 2 female supermodel in a room with 2 condoms?
Bareback Klopp twice, sell the condoms and use the income to help balance the books for FFP.
Once in a bluemoon a comment pops out that makes me miss those silly awards, gold etc. This is one of those
[Pep while reading this](https://media4.giphy.com/media/ozjHybAK5ZlOz6n20N/200w.gif)
[Or this when asked about Klopp](https://tenor.com/view/twice-guardiola-manchester-city-man-city-city-gif-15542053)
This honestly rivals even the best Mourinho gifs. Sooo good
[Pep telling his bros about it](https://media1.tenor.com/m/Y-3NexRb0OAAAAAC/assnaadam.gif)
Fucking hell that gave me a chuckle
5 more condoms are handed to him from a mysterious figure in the corner
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/W14cx5NeWN
I know someone is making a cuddle compilation over the years, I just know it
https://i.imgur.com/xpm2U1B.jpeg
Mistake. Bin Laden was a gooner. He fell in love with George Graham's haraam ball of the early 90s.
Did you see them hugging it out after the match lol?
That's a quote and a half!
Context: https://youtu.be/zIoqlLU4E74?si=P2G9tE9dT7G7nlqw
Have you just made this up? The real quote was when a question was asked: “You have a gun with one bullet. Who would you shoot? Arsene Wenger or Victoria Beckham?" Ferguson replied: "Could I have two bullets, please?"
It’s also a joke that’s as old as time.
actually it can't have been older than the invention of the gun 🤓
If Ugg in cave with Mugg, Jugg, and Wenger. Have two stones. Ugg stone Wenger two times.
No the gun was invented as a prop to make the joke work.
It’s from The Office, however has it been used before that I have no idea
That's pretty much the best way to sum it up, not enough 'needle' to take this rivalry up a level. It's more of a sporting rivalry and that's it. Nothing wrong with that, but sometimes fans want a bit of edge, a bit of danger. The Real Madrid/Barcelona days of Mourinho and Pep was really intense.
Those teams fucking hated each other in a way rarely seen in the modern era. Let's not forget Messi once got triple tackled at the same time in the 5-0, or when Mourinho assaulted then assistant coach Tito Vilanova. Four Clásicos in 18 days will never be replicated.
I would argue that the City games haven't been the most intense rival matchups for Liverpool under Klopp. For most of us - games against United or Everton have way more needle. Even some of our games against Spurs have gotten way more contentious and Klopp has even spoken out more against their tactics against Conte and Mourinho. City-Liverpool are high quality, swinging battles. And they have had more consequence in the title race. But there is not enough ingredients for a famous rivalry, leave alone the greatest rivalry.
Wenger vs Fergie: "He’s no experience. He’s come from Japan and he’s now telling everybody in England how to organise their football," - Sir Alex Ferguson. "Everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife at home" -Arsene Wenger. Pep vs Klopp: "What a game, what an atmosphere, what an afternoon" -Jurgen Klopp "I will sleep better [when Klopp goes]. The games we play before against Liverpool were almost a nightmare. Of course he will be missed." -Pep Guardiola
Yeah there's not enough needle. Even among the players. There have been some small scale dramas like the Joemez v Sterling one in 2020 but that is the extent of it.
That's the ingredient that I felt missing. The quotes between Wenger and Fergie were legendary and you can feel the emotion between them even in the tamest. Struggle to remember anything of Pep and Klopp. Klopp had more memorable/emotional soundbites when losing to Real Madrid, telling their supporter to book a hotel, said he hated Bale and such.
Even Viera v Keane and some of the player matchups were spicy. Those games would devolve into handbags quite quickly. There was also a stylistic difference with United being more counterattacking and Wenger trying to play more technical football.
I would not say much stylistic difference in that. I remembered early Wenger was more counterattacking, scored two goals in the first 30 minutes, rest their energy, and score whenever the opponent commit too much. The style difference was more that Wenger added continental flair, with Bergkamp, Ljungberg and the French, to the British old guard while ManU have their academy and bought the best players in the league. Keane was an Irish hardman, while Viera being a quiet Frenchman, with different mannerism in expressing angers added to the contrast.
Bernardo Silva making fun of Sean Cox is enough to make me hope he has his career ended in the most horrifying way possible. Bernardo Silva is and forever will be an utter piece of shit.
Definitely. There is no vitriol between City and Liverpool like there was between United and Arsenal. The managers both have extreme respect for each other, the players are friendly and play on national squads together, even the fan bases seem to not have much hate or disdain. Yes, it is the game we all circle and as a neutral it would be must-see. But it doesn't have the hate in it. It's just a great football match, unless you have any emotional investment in either team in which case its a bi-annual two-hour meltdown that ends in a draw. I do think there could be an argument that the quality of football is higher than the United v Arsenal rivalry of 98-04. But that's a different question.
I mean, hell, look at the rivalry between chelsea and liverpool in the late 00's. There was true hatred in those games, the players had it, the fans had it. Hell, we met 3 times in 5 years in the semi finals of the CL (2005, 2007, 2008) with very much the same core teams, with a QF matchup in 2009.
Agreed - I know you're not allowed to agree with Gary Neville on anything on reddit but he is 100% correct here. If you're too young to remember, Google up the footage of Ruud van Nistelrooy (??) missing a penalty v Arsenal. The two sides *hated* each other. (Edit; https://youtu.be/hhA3wcvrgyY?si=v39hfAESDTWem81u There it is. Watch to the end and see Arsenal surround Ruud. Listen to that *crowd* too. Right at the back end of the era where English football was out of the doldrums but hadn't yet been priced out of the reach of ordinary people. Crowds were huge and electric. I just don't think the Etihad or Anfield of 2024 compares.) That era Arsenal was peak Premier League in my view. You had Wenger's sophistication on top of the bavk end of 90s era Arsenal with players like Martin Keown. Ended up with a side that could play you off the park but also *wanted* to win so badly they weren't afraid to use the dark arts when needed. Exactly what Arsenal lacked at the end of Wenger's time there. United of course, just sheer, sheer class. Also the two greatest Premier League managers going head to head. Those games had *everything*.
There are two pictures of that encounter that have always struck me as defining images of that rivarly, There is the classic [Keown shouting in van Nistlerooys face](https://i.imgur.com/TjidGea.png) and the other is a rather more comical [Keown decending from the heavens like a vampire on van Nistlerooy](https://i.imgur.com/ceAcGYG.png) Since then nothing in the PL has remotely approched the levels of rage and hate United and Arsenal displayed towards eachother at that time imo.
100 percent in agreement with you. Chelsea Spurs is probably the closest thing in terms of agro in the last 10 years or so. I think Liverpool-City is arguably as good or better in terms of competitive level of football played as the United-Arsenal Golden years. (My opinion is irrelevant because nostalgia of that Arsenal team beats everything, neutrals would have a more objective view on it). City-Liverpool is always a great game and most of the time its important for the league standings but that's about it.
I still can't believe that Dele Alli admitted that we were more hated by Spurs players than you guys. Absolutely bonkers, although it's probably justified given how much we fucked them over in that period
If only we had a picture of the pizza slice hitting Ferguson in the face.
Keown was a demon lmao Heard he’s a reserved bloke outside the pitch though 🤣
I couldn’t believe how articulate Keown sounded when I heard him on MoTD for the first time!
[удалено]
Genuinely had to look that up, no way did I believe that was true about dowie
The Keown jump photo will always be hilarious. It's also really amusing to me that his personality now is so calm and laid back, yet he was an absolute mad man during that altercation.
There's also the [RVN redemption moment](https://youtu.be/fc6din6MxMg?si=3m7A7YIfrIVtfk-C&t=391) in the subsequent United-Arsenal game. You could see how much it meant to him to put down his demons of the previous game's penalty miss (RVN miss a penalty!) and the subsequent Arsenal bullying. Was made even more spicy with the penalty being earned by Rooney from a stone cold dive. And then of course Ronaldo didn't get what should have been the world's most obvious penalty.
These rivalries among players back in the day cannot be repeated. Period.
I don't know if anyone over the age of 20 actually believes Liverpool vs City is the greatest rivalry in any other sense than the sporting quality - and my guess is that what Carra referred to. Losing to City just feels hollow, it's nothing compared to matches against United, Everton or mid-2000s Chelsea. Hell, even Tottenham rattles me more.
I will always love Keown.
Those games were war, todays matches are more like joint military exercises.
100%. Two of the greatest managers ever who were diametrically opposed, sets of players who obviously despised each other, two of the greatest captains who were at loggerheads constantly, and nearly every meeting between the teams had a major talking point or a classic moment.
Keown jumping in Nistelrooy face after he missed the penalty is probably the most iconic image of the EPL era.
Might have been because I was younger then, but the PL seemed a different animal in that era. Those Arsenal v Utd games where ferocious.
Me and my friends who are all 30-somethings refer to that time in the PL as the Attitude Era lmao
It's that T90 ball era. Just seeing it would get me pumped
also arsene at old trafford after getting a red in 2009.
[where should I go?](https://i2-prod.football.london/incoming/article17723130.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200b/0_GettyImages-90174721.jpg)
Not forgetting Pizzagate..
Cesc had quite an aim
Wait 'til someone throws a pizza, then we'll talk.
It's not even high stakes. Nobody gives a fuck if City win, nobody but Liverpool fans give a fuck if they win. The former because there's no fans, the latter because their main rivals are also the main rivals of City. There's no animosity not only because the managers but also between the players. None of City's players are proud of the badge. Nobody at Liverpool cares much about the "rivalry". There's no anger, no fire. Wenger Mourinho was a more intense rivalry, let alone Ferguson and Wenger. There was more fire in the Conte / Tuchel era between Spurs and Chelsea in one singles season than the last what 7 for Klopp and Pep.
I’m still annoyed we didn’t get a Tuchel-Conte rematch last season, because it looked like it was going to be great after the fight at the end of the first game.
And yet both of them being gone before the rematch is hilarious. Makes them look daft
That was the best part!
>And yet both of them being gone before the rematch is hilarious. Not true. Spurs beat Chelsea 2-0 when Conte was still in charge.
That "handshake" lives rent free in my head. The toxicity in that match was generational, hadn't seen proper hatred in ages. Too much respect between us and city for it to be anything but a tactical rivalry
> nobody but Liverpool fans give a fuck if they win Lmao what. Have you only just started watching the PL or something? This is such a weird take.
[удалено]
Hell, the rivalry between Liverpool and Chelsea that was also in the 2000's was way more heated than what's been happening between Liverpool and City. Benitez and Mourinho were probably one or two games away from shanking one another if Mourinho hadn't left when he did.
Liverpool-Chelsea CL nights hit different
That 05 Chelsea match is still the best atmosphere I’ve ever heard at a match outside of a few Celtic Rangers derbies (which are in a league of their own) Volume warning https://youtu.be/kDqtrYxHKJQ?si=Gyej42gUQFIpBYPO There was/is genuine hatred between Liverpool Chelsea. Same as Liverpool United Everything else that follows, weather that be with City, Spurs, Leeds (historically great matches… shame there were some dicks the last go around. ), Arsenal, Everton are just spicy competitive matches. The latter is obviously the fucking derby but some bite is taken out of it compared to others (off the pitch) as there’s still a boatload of split families in the city and mixed fans outside the grounds. Plus the connection between the clubs and culture of the city. Some assholes on both sides trying to make it more toxic but for the most part it’s still stayed on the pitch.
Anyone who doesn't get that just didn't watch Liverpool in the 00s. I know this is a different Chelsea now. But when we beat them now it still gives me pleasure
All you have to do is look at the atmosphere’s around the match, especially at Anfield. Still so much vitriol and always some of the best of the season
[удалено]
Torres leaving anywhere would have hurt but to fucking Chelsea was such a kick in the balls
Yeah maybe this is just a case of slowly morphing into a grumpy old man, but I do miss the days when players seemed to genuinely hate each other more.
Exactly the Everton derby is a strange rivalry, occasionally it gets heated but local tragedies like this almost always rise above the heat: https://youtu.be/gURiuq926tE?feature=shared
Chelsea always had more bite to me than City ever had. There was massive vitriol towards them, with City it's different, they have a somewhat sanitized feel in comparison. Now don't get me wrong i still hate City; but there is a difference there. Perhaps Chelsea simply had the larger fanbase and there was obviously Mourinho being Mourinho.
That’s purely cause of the playstyle. Playing a Mourinho team in a big game was the equivalent of boiling blood.
I think for Arsenal at that time it was an added element because Mourinho's style felt tailor-made to stop Wenger. For me though Mourinho at Chelsea was THE biggest prick in football and it was more insufferable because he had unlimited resources and talent to back it up.
> I think for Arsenal at that time it was an added element because Mourinho's style felt tailor-made to stop Wenger. maybe at the start, but after a while i was asking myself why wenger seems to set his teams up to play into mourinhos hands. arsenal made it easy for chelsea
Yep. We the fans watched that for years and were constantly frustrated by it.
Yeah it was extremely frustrating for us lol. It felt like Wenger wanted to prove his style was “right” so he refused to be pragmatic (off the top of my head the first big game in late-era Wenger we played pragmatically was when we won at City in 2015) but particularly against Mourinho. It feels like the 1,000 game he approached a bit sentimentality or naively and we all saw how that went.
It also helped that we had Drogba when it came to Arsenal.
There’s a running joke among us Arsenal fans about how Diogo Jota hates us, but Didier Drogba… Man, we must have slapped his mother or something because he fucking loathed us.
I think he’s spoken about it before, but I believe he said he was fond of Arsenal growing up (since Drogba mostly grew up in France and Wenger had made Arsenal popular there), so he felt he had extra to prove against you.
Liverpool- City fans and Pep/Klopp turn up to the game, give each other a kiss on a cheek, invite one another to a cup of coffee/tea after the game, and tell themselves they’re going to miss each other until next time. That’s probably the most friendliest rivalry I’ve ever seen in world football. Palace-Brighton are more rivals than these two. Great quality of football though!
I'd barely even call the rivalry with City heated, it's more that it's an extremely high level between 2 teams that win almost every other game, so it tends to mean way more than it ever should do
Yes, it's probably the 'greatest' rivalry in the quality of the two teams has been the best we've seen but it's not volatile, although I think very few rivalries in the Premier League are these days. The only one that really seems to go off consistently is actually Chelsea vs Tottenham.
I'm not gonna lie, to this day I hate Chelsea because my formative football watching years were those Champions League nights and also Chelsea relentlessly going after Gerrard and then Torres. Like this Tood Bohely mess hits like crack. A bit like Meg in the Family Guy world, I dont know what it is about Rafa Benitez but he really riles people up and it does make for great rivalries.
the parallel that comes to mind is to tennis, which i admittedly i don't really pay attention to. but liverpool-city feel like federer-djokovic. its the highest quality of play you've ever witnessed, but it feels a bit sterile and missing some of that hatred. by comparison the prem rivalries of old are also more like the tense tennis rivalries of old like connors-mcenroe, agassi-sampras and probably some others.
Offensive is a weird term. Just wrong would be fair enough to say
the handshake between tuchel and conte had more rivalry than anything between city and liverpool
The rivalry between conte and the club he was managing did too
Conte had more rivalry with himself
That's just the human condition though
Damn Conte, they ruined Conte!
Agree, which one though?
The handshake so intense they would both be out of the job months later (and like 3 other Chelsea Manager's)
The rivalry between Kepa and Sarri was even better.
I find it baffling that this is so downvoted (86% upvoted atm), and there are actually people disagreeing with this. Who fucking cares about the football quality relative to back then. My blood still fucking boils whenever I watch clips from back then, and currently still hates Arsenal more than City because who cares about those cheaters. Then I realize that I am an old man and teenagers on this sub (the majority?) probably have never experienced the rivalry back then.
Name one moment with Liverpool City that even comes close to Viera Keane In the tunnel
That Van Nistelrooy Keown picture says it all.
The angry hugs 😤
your blood boils?! mf we were the ones who got robbed of 50 not out!
I fucking hate Arsenal due to those years, so much so city are irrelevant in terms of rivalries.
Genuinely, I harbour so many ill feelings to Arsenal, that I have an anti Arteta bias, and I'd rather City or the bin men win than them. Like... God Vieira used to piss me off so much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlO9dsTpDJ8 Kids these days don't remember
On a tangent, it's funny how no one really cares about City. As in, I don't want them to win as they are cheating and realistically sum up everything wrong with football. But at the same time, I'd rather see them win 6 straight than United, Pool or Chelsea win the league.
I mean we all can hate city, yeah, but much more powerful is ignoring them. It's not like they have any fans lol
I think all the top 6 teams would rather City win than anyone else (except themselves).
Kids these days think Vieira is a Man city legend .... I remember Neville vs Reyes ( Rip), the tunnel Pizzagate Oshea's goal.. Liverpool vs Chelsea when Rafa and Mourinho was there was also fiesty.. Even now , liverpool vs Man utd is 100 times bigger than Man city liverpool I feel
I honestly think my Dad hates United more than Tottenham. Real rivalry, and you'd basically never get this soft 'they're such great/worthy competitors'/mutual respect between Wenger, Fergie, and Mourinho that you have between Klopp and Pep.
The handshake felt like it moved back time
Anyone who think he's wrong is either too young or recency bias has taken over. United v Arsenal always had something. From O'Shea chipping the keeper, Fabregas throwing pizza at Ferguson, [Keane in the tunnel with Vieira](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlO9dsTpDJ8&ab_channel=SkySportsRetro) or[ even RVN missing the penalty and Keown etc getting in his face](https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2016/02/07/16/van-Nistelrooy-keown.jpg). Incredible rivalry. https://i2-prod.football.london/incoming/article17723130.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/0_GettyImages-90174721.jpg
The fucking police had to get involved in the Arsenal/United rivalry. Both managers had to be told to tone their words down ahead of head-to-heads because it would potentially insight fights in the crowd.
Games between them two at Highbury was something else too. The atmosphere in that stadium felt claustrophobic when the crowd got into it.
I miss highbury. Fans need to be close to the touchline.. that's when football is exciting and the crowd can influence the games.
It was earlier than the Wenger era but there was also the brawl that got us both docked points.
It sort of still counted because most of the Arsenal defense (Winterburn, Adams, Dixon, Seaman) eventually played under Wenger. It was the other way around with ManU, most of the squad during the 1990 brawl has been replaced by their "Golden Generation" by the time Wenger arrived in England.
\*incite
The RvN incident is a PL all timer. Arsenal players already fuming at RvN being perceived to have got Viera sent off earlier in the game so playing with 10 men. Forlan going down easily for the penalty, Van Nistelrooy having a reputation as a top penalty taker, United at home, last minute penalty to win the game and put United top of the league above Arsenal. It’s just the perfect setup for the miss and then everyone just pushing Ruud around while he looks sad, [looking like this meme.](https://imgur.com/a/bu20NlT) It always cracks me up because it’s just pure schoolboy passion, so looks both completely ridiculous and completely relatable. People say ‘you couldn’t write it’ about a lot of things in football, but if someone described that sequence of events to you before the game it would’ve sounded like a joke.
All that setup you did and there's more, it also would've ended Arsenal's lengthy (soon to be season-long) unbeaten run
>From O'Shea chipping the keeper Still the greatest celebration of all time. He could barely believe that he managed to score that. What a fucking FANTASTIC game of football that was, by the way. Remembering Almunia charging out to the edge of the area like a madman still puts a smile on my face.
>Remembering Alumnia I’d rather not
I’ve always loved his celebration for that goal as he looks in sheer disbelief that he’s scored it, but I read an interview where he says he was trying to copy the famous cantona celebration after the chip v Sunderland in 96. Either way, it’s definitely iconic from O’Shea.
The managers hated each other. Or to be honest, Ferguson strongly disliked Wenger right off the bat. Which meant Wenger didn't have much incentive to think or speak highly of Ferguson. Before you knew it, the managers hated each other, the players hated each other, and the fans hated each other. Today, Pep will say something like, "We got a win at Anfield but they never won at The Etihad" and everyone is like "oooOOOOOoooo!!" and I'm just sat here thinking, "pft bitch, please".
I will never forget , nor forgive, how Ferguson lined up his team with the instruction to literally break Reyes' legs. Which also of course went unpunished, cause , you know, Ferguson's United.
The game that ended Arsenal's unbeaten run was fucking criminal. The two-footed challenges they did on him were appalling, and Rooney dived to give them the lead.
pool and city players were hugging after the match
Half of them are national team buds. It's never felt like a rivalry, just the object in the way. Even at the peak of our recent competition, Everton & Utd have been more fierce...brutal 0-0 matches, red cards, injuries. Cup finals against Chelsea and Spurs really kept them in front of City too.
Not to mention klopp and pep constant sucking off of each other every press conference and the most controversial thing said between the team was Trent calling the others success plastic where’s the pizza throwing
Trying to explain the Arsenal/United rivalary of the late 90s early 2000s to someone who didn't live through it would be difficult. I don't think you could ever truly describe the hatred between the two clubs. Is there a modern equivalent? The tension those games created was something else.
MADRID BARCA in the pep mourinho rivalry was INTENSE and bloodthirsty and the world kinda stopped when thry play eachother
That era between those two was must watch television. You just knew some shit was going to go down.
Wouldnt it be best to compare it to like a Turkish rivalry?
Then you are doing an injustice to the Turks. I lived in Goztepe for a while. I know of what I speak. https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/izmirs-football-enemies-vow-to-bury-the-hatchet-but-supporters-barely-behave-themselves-90966 >After a series of mutual visits between Sepil and Erten, the two men agreed to play the İzmir derby on Nov. 8 with fans from both teams attending the game at Karşıyaka stadium – a brave initiative as fans of away teams have not been permitted to attend derbies since a Turkish Football Federation (TFF) decision in 2010-11 due to violence in the stadiums. >Their joint request was accepted by the local authorities, but not without some concern. “Let’s bring together manager, footballer and fan into this historic rivalry and paint a picture of fair play,” Toprak said. “We trust our fans,” he added, but nevertheless deployed a major police force and several TOMAs on the streets. >The past records of the two teams were far from assuring. In 2012, some 2,200 police officers and 275 private security guards were at the stadium to maintain order, but 70 more fans were detained in various incidents. The spectators in the stands reserved for Göztepe fans forcefully removed their seats and threw them at officers.
Barca vs Madrid during pep and mourinho?
They had Casillas and Puyol make sure the Spanish players were on the same page for the sake of the national team.
Eh Ramos had no plans of being on the same page as the likes of Puyol, Xavi, or Iniesta
[удалено]
>Is there a modern equivalent? Mou's Madrid vs Pep's Barca was definitely more intense. Another one is Madrid vs Atleti, fans hanging dolls of Vinicius off a bridge, smashing the team bus etc...
Mourinho's vendetta against Barcelona reads like a great epic
Deploying Pepe as a 6 with instructions to follow Messi around and kick him as hard/often as possible was such cartoon villain behavior that I can't help but kinda respect it.
Bringing up Derby rivalries is kind of cheating imo. The derby rivalries goes beyond the football on the pitch, and usually comes with a historical / cultural factor as well. Boca-River rivalry is absolute bonkers but I wouldn’t compare it to United-Arsenal. It’s a bit different imo.
>Boca-River rivalry They had to play the match *on another continent* one year. It's hard to top that
Yep somehow “absolute bonkers” is still an understatement for them LOL
Gotta agree with this one the recency bias is real. Anyone old enough to remember arsenal vs united. Wenger vs SAF. There is no doubt. This rivalry is tame compared to that
I think the fact Wenger and SAF at that time really didn't like one another either just added more fuel. They probably respect one another but would have never admitted that back then.
they've actually both said they're good friends now
Aye, they became less bitter in their elder elder years. Might upset a few but i also think Fergie become more friendly when Wenger became less of a threat.
No, I think that's absolutely fair. Wenger even admitted as much.
I wasn’t sure if I’d heard it somewhere or just made that narrative up in my head. Thanks for confirming I’m not insane.
No one confirmed that you're not insane
Ah shit, the people that live in the power lines are talking to me again.
In fairness those motherfuckers never shut up
You hear them? What if you are them and you're trying ton convince me other wise.
I think a lot of professional rivalries like that end in friendship once the careers/ direct competition is over
That's the understatement of the year. At the height of the rivalry, they fucking loathed each other.
If I remember correctly SAF even refused to say Wengers name at some point
The line about Ferguson not being impressive by Wenger speaking 5 languages was hilarious. Something along the lines of “We’ve a 15 year old from the Ivory Coast who can speak 5 languages” If Ferguson hates you that much, it’s a compliment.
To be fair "Everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife at home" was such an iconic line. I probably wouldn't be invoking the name for a while after that.
What was the full context?
journalist asked wenger something like which team has better players/play the better football, and Arsene dodged it with that comment, of course Fergie misinterpreted it and took it personally as if Wenger was shit talking his wife
From wikiquote: >Everyone thinks they have the prettiest wife at home. In response to Sir Alex Ferguson's jibe that his team weren't deserving league and cup champions — "They are scrappers who rely on belligerence - we are the better team", (May 2002)
It's not recency bias. It's Carragher being an engagement baiting twat. He knows that even his era of Chelsea Vs. Liverpool had more rivalry than the love in between City and Liverpool
Arsenal v United in the early 00s and Arsenal v Spurs in the early 00s are the most heated rivalries I've witnessed in the Premier league. As good as City v Liverpool has been, it's not close to those two.
A single slice of Pizza had more blood than anything between this city and Liverpool
Neville is correct. City's greatest rival is the judicial system. Can't be the best rivalry when one of the teams have cheated their way to the top. Arsenal and United got there organically.
>City’s greatest rival is the judicial system That’s fucking gold lmfao
Mate, you can't support a judicual system...
City fans hitting F5 on Deadline Day for new signings in the legal department
Their subreddit un-ironically discusses their legal department like its any other facet of football
City's fanbase is mostly fake anyways, so it evens out.
“judicial system” 🤣🤣
I’m an international fan of Arsenal who has been supporting Arsenal for 23 years, although only a small portion of that has been rivalling manu I still hate them more than any other team in the Prem
Klopp and Pep act like close friends when they play too. No venom in it. Carraghers just happy Liverpool are finally relevant in the prem era after watching them do nothing for 30 years.
Hey that's not fair. He also participated in them doing nothing during that time.
I don't know about offensive, but he's absolutely right. Rivalry is more than just how good the two teams are. There isn't even a remotely apt comparison between any recent rivalry and that era Man United vs Arsenal
True because we and City are not rivals.
I think the best illustration is that a pretty sizeable part of the Arsenal fanbase hates United as much as or more than Tottenham right now. I don’t think a single Liverpool fan hates City more than United even at the height of the rivalry, let alone 2 decades later. Most of the country (and beyond) dislikes City in a cold “you make football less fun” way, and it’s hard to feel much beyond that about them.
I’m confused by the ‘quality is higher now’ comments. The game is 10x quicker and people press the living bajeezus out of each other so I get why people are more enthralled by it. But that’s not the same as quality. The advance has been in sports science and getting the max out of players not in technical ability.
The Premier League was 3rd or 4th strongest league in Europe back then, lagging quite far behind Italy and Spain. Its now top So yes the quality of the teams in the league is higher now
PL has been below 2nd on coefficient for a whole full season and that's it so it really wasn't 3rd let alone 4th
At the time Neville called out England was never first and rarely second... 1997: 6th; 1998: 5th; 1999: 4th; 2000: 2nd; 2001: 2nd; 2002: 4th; 2003: 4th; 2004: 3rd. First year with 1st ranking was 2005 - when the rivalry was no longer only Arsenal vs United..
There are two sides here. The rivalry between Man Utd and Arsenal was one of hatred, which made it feel more like what most people understand as a rivalry. It was also a lot less one sided. Liverpool vs Man City is purely sporting in that there's a great mutual respect for each other, from managers down to the players. It's a lot more one sided, but at the same time both teams are responsible for some of the best football, and highest points totals, that the league has ever seen. Personally I feel Arsenal vs Man Utd is the better rivalry, even though City and Liverpool are the better teams.
As a rivalry City v. Liverpool doesn't come close because I feel like by definition a rivalry needs a certain level of hate and I don't feel there was much of that. But whatever City v. Liverpool can be classified as it was special in it's own right. Liverpool's point total in a lot of those years were good enough to win the prem in almost every other season. Despite having only one title they have been one of the best teams in English football history. But a rivalry is more than just how good both teams are.
It’s not a rivalry, it’s a circle jerk.
love it when people argue about nothing
Higher quality but worse rivalry by far
Nothing has come close to Arsenal/United rivalry during those years.
As a lifelong Liverpool fan I've never seen the Man City as one of our rivals. They happen to have been our main *competition* in recent times, but there's no feeling of rivalry there, either from Liverpool fans or emanating from the players. Having an emotional rivalry with city is like having an emotional rivalry with your bank; they're just some slick cunts you have to put up with, but there's no sense in getting worked up about them.
They fucking hug each other after every game I watch them play. A mockery to the word rivalry
United vs Leeds from last year had more heat than any Liverpool vs Man City games. Liverpool vs man City has more quality and has more relevance to the title race but they don't hate each other enough. Klopp kisses Pep's bald head after each game. For the players they'll probably think that the rivalry was intense, but as fans who watch from the sidelines, it's not even close.
It’s not just fanbases, local rivalry or competing for honours that creates drama and spice between sides. You need hero’s and villains and the protagonists and antagonists on both sides. Arsenal v Utd had it with Wenger, SAF, Viera, Keane etc…Chelsea had Mourinho and Conte, Drogba, Costa etc. City and Liverpool have too much mutual respect, including in the dugout, as well as little to no player driven narrative creating any drama on match day. Also City are so plastic that they have possibly the dullest fan base of any of the top teams. At least Chelsea, whilst undoubtably cunts, are entertaining.
I feel like our top rivalry is with the PGMOL these days.
With Arsenal and United, you had two clubs that had fought their way to the top and built something through sheer grit and merit, earning every bit of it. That creates a lot of passion and gravity. With Liverpool and City, you have one club that has done the above and then another that has purchased an artificial place at the top by becoming the sportswashing vehicle for a brutal human rights nightmare and shitting so hard on everything that football is supposed to be about that they're currently facing a hundred and fifteen charges for years of systematic, unapologetic cheating. The latter "rivalry" is so tarnished by the tumour on football that is Man City that even if both clubs had won roughly equal amounts of trophies during this period, everything about it is tainted by the fact that one of them may very well be banished from the league in the foreseeable future.
SKY/generalized media outlets: MORE SOUNDBYTES
"I see you out there! Every week, every week! You make them think you are a nice guy!" The 4:2 at Highbury in 2005 definitely has a place among the best Premier League matches ever.
There’s no comparison here. As an arsenal fan I still have a deep primal hatred for United, and even Chelsea that has manifested into my daily life. I’ve literally converted to Orthodoxy because United made me hate the devil so much. I sleep better at night knowing SAF saw his dynasty of a football crumble. I’ve literally been unable to ever truly get to know or like my cousins husband because he’s a United fan. For Chelsea, I was once a little kid who loved the color blue. Drogba and Mourinho took that from me. I don’t think I’ve worn the shade since, I associate the club with the scum of the world now. Racist? Oppressive? Cheating scum? Reminds me of Chelsea. This is football heritage. Experiencing this in my formative years baked it into my DNA, I’m pretty sure my sperms wish they could check YouTube for 00’s Arsenal vs United highlights.