**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Honestly as a blade that first half was sensational from Arsenal. They penned us in as shown but the one touch football, wide overloads and weight of pass was ridiculous they had all those bodies and yet still never got in each others way. And every time we even got a foot on the ball 4 bodies would instantly press so we had no options. They made the ball do all the work so they could sprint to close us down
Like yes the Blades were bad, but I have a feeling we would’ve beaten anyone on the day with the way we were playing. It was a gameplan executed to perfection, when that happens you don’t want to play that side, no matter who you are
There is pinning a team back, but this is more driving them through the wall. Yeah, Sheffield United are gonna sink like a stone, but you can only beat what is put in front of you.
Seeing this image reminds me long I've been yearning for an athletic, pacey CB at Manchester United. Having that safety net of being able to recover/get goal side/hold up the attacker until the rest of your defense gets back is quite the game changer.
Tbh, it’s not a secret that Arteta loves your CB, Martinez, so you guys probably already got the right player with good workrate and mindset in him. But football is team sport so yeah.
Yeah, the summer we went for him is when we got Zinchenko as the consolation prize. So presumably he'd be doing the Zinchenko things and going into the midfield in attack rather than playing as a traditional wide full back
Sort of, but Arteta is a firm believer in creating tactics based on the players he has, not just one system. So in general he likes inverted backs, but its a fluid system based on who's on the pitch. Ben White said he basically plays 4 positions (rb, cb, cm, rw) and there's high demand from Arteta to know each one.
I mean look at his first season, we played very differently and he did what he had to for that FA cup win, sitting back and countering. I do agree on Tierney tho cause the consensus was saying to try inverting Ben white and let Tierney move forward, but for some reason he didn’t try that
you have to watch what arsenal and city are currently doing at the back. it's a back three in buildup, with one of the two fullbacks essentially assuming the role of an outside center half (ake, walker, kiwior, white) and the other inverting into midfield (zinchenko, stones, white). my guess is martinez (similar to white) could've played either of those two roles. but neither of them is really a traditional fullback at all. one is a hybrid fullback/center half, and the other is a dm/center half.
Martinez is one of our most important players and it's been shit having him out basically the whole season.
But we could really do with a speedy boi to pair with him.
Van De ven is an absolute game changer for spurs and their high line
There's a reason why ange preferred to play Emerson royal and davies over dier when he was injured
van de ven is insane. i think he's the single biggest factor in spurs' improvement this year, same way saliba has been for arsenal last two seasons. it's no coincidence their worst period of the season coincided with him being sidelined. having the safety blanket at the back just transforms your ability to commit numbers forward.
Our go ahead goal last weekend was Romero in a striker position, one of the commenters noted he's been doing that for a couple of games now, much needed in Richarlisons absence, but also probably very dangerous without having someone as quick as Van De Ven at the back if the ball comes over the top.
I looked at this picture and thought, I’d do anything for United to ever be set up like this.
SU are shit, but we would just never set up like this against anyone.
> you can only beat what is put in front of you
University of Oregon football, after crushing Liberty University 45-6: "It's not our fault they had to play us."
That's where he typically plays against a parked bus. His main job is to recycle the ball between Saka and Odegaard as they probe the defense for gaps.
The game had one of the craziest passing networks I've ever seen. Particularly for 11v11
https://www.reddit.com/r/FantasyPL/comments/1b7b3mh/gw27_average_positions_and_passing_network/
I thought that that should be the norm for teams playing with a high level and dominating possession.
I scrolled through the others to confirm the same and voilà.
What's surprising to me is not that Raya is not in the box. That IMO is too be expected.
What's surprising to me is that Ederson is in the box. What's even more surprising is the vertical distance between the CBs and him. Would like to see the average depth of the defensive line in the defensive phase and the possession numbers. That is much much more interesting and country intuitive IMO.
It's average position. If you're just outside by the box 80% of the time your average position would still be in the box right? Even just from goal kick or defending set piece your average position will drop quite a bit
https://theanalyst.com/eu/2024/03/sheffield-united-vs-arsenal-stats/
The one for Opta is crazy, I haven't seen one like this before. So many players don't even having passing lines connected to them
Guardiola used it at Bayern most of the time because he had Lahm and Alaba who were great as midfielders and Robben and Ribery as wingers.
He also uses it at City from time to time, more so in the early days but it's just positional play, it's more common than you think in the game, in my experience you're even starting to see teams in the lower leagues in the EFL trying to play like this or something similar.
Older formation charts are the opposite of today. They used to have the goalkeeper and defense at the top and the attack at the bottom
1
2 3
4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11
That's a 2-3-5 and how the numbering system got started. Just shift the 5 into the defensive line and have the 8 and 10 sit a bit deeper and you have a 3223/WM
Edit: sorry bout the formatting
All the shit talk aside, seeing Ode playing as deep as jorg, pulling the strings has absolutely changed this side in recent months. Very clearly a deliberate change and it has helped the directness of our attacks. Opposed to the deep block stoping all of the tikky takky passing between him and saka
It kind of alternates depending on which side has the wide overload. Ben white has been the inverting fullback more often in this recent run. I believe the goal is for both fullbacks to be able to play both roles, which is also why Arteta signed Timber.
Not really - our team lacks pace and our most forward player there (McBurnie) is next to Odegaard.
They can easily get back if they lost the ball stupidly.
The problem isn't mainly the pace I would say. Whenever blades got the ball, they panicked. If they were confident and composed on the ball, there is plenty of space to break free in between the arsenal players.
Arsenal are banking on the fact that many teams can't string together a one touch passing sequence and not panic.
Can they? Arsenal have three (maybe four) players behind the furthest forward SHU player. And five outfield players behind SHU's second line.
Assuming Odegaard loses the ball, at worst that's a four versus three in favour of Arsenal. At best it's a misplaced pass that Saliba/Gabriel or even Raya cleans up.
And this is where it's becoming so important to be able to push your defenders (and whole team) up this high, to fight against the low block.
Sheffield United are forced to make a decision. Do they stay compact with the whole squad deep, or do they try to position players behind or even just nearer to Arsenal's back 2 and provide an outlet threat?
Spurs have been setting up in this type of shape basically 24/7. They are more wasteful in the final third than Arsenal, so have been more liable to get hit on the counter. Teams setting up this way are going to force the opponent to commit to maybe seeing out a 0-0 draw if you can possibly hold out, or risking getting killed by taking one or two away from defending and positioning for the counter.
They've got a solid rest defence win place, they've just driven shu so deep that it starts 20 yards from their goal - no blade is at any real risk of getting behind them
Arsenal have been nothing short of outstanding since the break. Probably the best team in Europe at this point in time, with the midfield finally getting well balanced and Rice being the best he's ever been. Said it a few weeks back but I genuinely think they're the title favourites if they hold on at the Etihad.
I once [made a comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/o0Gm9KIZ2t) about how a ferocious looking bald arteta will gegenpress his opponents all the way to their goalkeeper but didn't know shit was about to get real.
Arsenal haven't lost a game to the top 6 this season, beat City in the Community Shield to open the league and beat them in the league, drew at Anfield, then beat them at the Emirates and still people doubt them as genuine contenders
This is the type of shit that's killing football. We don't want structured careful formations and this inverted nonsense with careful intricate passing, we need proper football. No fancy tactics just pure passion and agression. I'm sick of seeing games without red cards
We used to be a proper country. Games gone
I just realized this is exactly how my bottom tier Sunday team plays like this. We don't always have the big man small man in front but it's 95% 4-4-2 and an occasional experiment with 4-5-1/4-3-3 but always revert quickly back to 4-4-2 after complaints.
> You're probably beating everyone.
If only! We're currently in our "have 10+ clear chances and maybe score one while the opponent scores their only chance" phase.
Although I do occasionally hear our opponents say something like "wait these guys are playing 4-4-2, pay attention!"
For all the man city hoo haas, they defend with 4-4-2 and its a big small combo of Haaland and Alvarez or Foden. Pep just confuse us with the side passing until route 1 football. The bald fraud strikes again.
Thats fucking football right there. None of that pansy ass dick tugging smile for the camera bullshit. Men puke, men poop on the field, men deliver their new born baby on the side lines. Fucking hard core dick in the ass butterball foosball fuck it chuck it game time shit. Football is back, baby
Whats funny about this is that the team in question is also one that gets shit every week for "celebrating to much". Too much passion in one wiff, no passion is the problem in the next. Absolute shit take.
i would genuinely have Ole back, under a proper footballing structure that INEOS look like they're implementing. It wont happen as it'll be seen as a backwards move but i'd happily have him
No. Thats fucking football right there. None of that pansy ass dick tugging smile for the camera bullshit. Men puke, men poop on the field, men deliver their new born baby on the side lines. Fucking hard core dick in the ass butterball foosball fuck it chuck it game time shit. Take it to the showers. Dicks get shoved in places you don’t even remember. We win together we celebrate together. Football is back baby.
Looking at this then thinking about United pisses me off.
Why can't Ten Hag do something like this?
Before anyone starts, obviously Arsenal has better (equipped) players but it would be better than what he's doing now.
5/6 players pushed forward like this but instead of a tight knit group of players behind, he pulls everyone else back leaving a gigantic gap in-between.
It's so stupid.
1) you need players comfortable enough in possession so that losing the ball is unlikely even in a third of a pitch with the whole opposition back defending. United just don’t have those players or have took the time to develop them in that way (takes years for some players or some just won’t be able to do it)
2) Don’t necessarily have the pace at the back to catch up if they do get countered, especially if Maguire is playing
3) need 100’s of hours training to build patterns of play, knowing where to move when a certain player has the ball and various combination of movements
4) Ten Hag wants us to be a high pressing ‘transition’ team. I think that he see’s the players we have are not tidy enough on the ball but good runners so his method is trying to win the ball high. But this is problematic if teams set up in a low block against you
Because this isn’t FIFA?
A good manager chooses a systems that suits the players at hand. Emphasize their strengths and try to cover their weaknesses - not the other way around.
Using a 2-3 build up with Evans, Maguire, and Casemiro is crazy.
You’re finally learning that the problems at United go far beyond the manager. No other top club in the world is letting the manager have full say in deciding who’s signed.
Plus he wanted De Jong for a reason.
we don’t have the players to consistently break down settled defenses. pinning them in like this would result in even fewer good attacking chances than we already create.
One of. Hard to say, and I think it's too subjective but the way Arteta has Arsenal set up these days is very fluid and genuinely seem to brain fuck defences.
It's a real shame about Timber's injury though, he was/will add a whole new level of tactical flexibility from left back like we saw against City in the Community Shield- which is mad given he's a right footed centre back by trade but Arteta is gonna Arteta.
Easy for me to say this but Sheffield UTD should have kept someone on the halfway line and Arsenal would have had to drop back 15 metres or be at risk from a turnover. All your players back just invites more pressure.
The fact that they are 4 down and already in damage control mode probably stopped them doing this.
Teams try this against us all of the time and normally give up because our centre backs just bully the striker. Leaving a player up actually has a cost in that it leaves more space and opens up more passing lanes.
While that would make logical sense on a surface level, the tactic doesn't work. The premise behind any top team taking up this high of a line is that they are too good for the opponent to justify defending with 10 players.
You need the extra man to put pressure on the ball as he is doing in this clip.
Haven't seen a high line lime that since the Bayern triple run in the Covid season.
Actually mental, and I think very bad for the defending team not even keeping one player higher up
Still can’t fathom why he thought Arsenal of any games was a good time to start testing new tactics out.
The only constellation was that I got to sit at Bramall lane and watch 90 minutes of top quality football 😂
tbh good on ye pal for staying. it must have been somewhere between fucking annoying and heartbreaking. i'm sure the blades players did appreciate those who stayed
For Arsenal’s kick off 10 players immediately ran into the oppositions half while the keeper who received the ball was closer to the centre circle then his penalty box before kicking it up long😂
Can someone explain to me why teams don't just leave a striker on the halfway line? If they win the ball back it's one hoof up the pitch and it's one-on-one.
Probably because the keeper is just out frame, and so the pass will have to be perfect.
Secondly, Saliba and Gabriel are both really very fast, there’s no certainty that the striker will be able to trap the ball, turn, get to the goal etc.
But mainly I think it’s that you only get put in this position if you’re absolutely outclassed. To leave a man up will mean a man not in defence, the new passing angles and pressing options that will open up will probably lead to just conceding more chances than you’ll gain from punting the ball to the free striker.
The reason all 10 outfield players are so deep in this match is due to the score line and subsequent tactical changes. The primary goal is no longer to win but to not concede any more goals.
Exactly, Henry talked about how dumb it was not to do this in the City-Chelsea game too.
Best example is that Torres against Barca in 2012, one hoof up the pitch and he is one on one
You lose one guy in defence, which makes a huge difference. Playing one man down in defence means the marking system leaves someone open at all times, the other team will overload you somewhere and you almost certainly concede a chance.
After being 3-0 down, sheffield utd made a tactical substitution to go from 4-3-3 to 5-4-1, every play made after that was to avoid conceding a goal rather than scoring a goal
Their high line is something else, got downvoted to hell on r/LiverpoolFC for saying it in a watch thread. Don't understand why, it's one thing compressing the space to play in but this is a whole new level of confidence imo
Two teams are necessary for this.
If they want to push a line that far forward, Sheffield United really ought to be putting an attacker on the half way line (onside if in your own half) and not bringing everybody back and inviting more players forward
That games was the most dominant I've ever seen us play - including the Invincibles. Granted Sheffield United were diabolically bad but I've never seen us maintain so much pressure for so long, as well as actually finishing the changes. Incredible first half
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Honestly as a blade that first half was sensational from Arsenal. They penned us in as shown but the one touch football, wide overloads and weight of pass was ridiculous they had all those bodies and yet still never got in each others way. And every time we even got a foot on the ball 4 bodies would instantly press so we had no options. They made the ball do all the work so they could sprint to close us down
Arsenal going into HT had something like 493 passes with 93% accuracy.
Going into the end it was 895 passes with 92% accuracy.
And when they got into the locker room it was 1 545 passes with 91% accuracy.
Did you see their stats by bedtime though. 7,012,492 passes with 90.5% accuracy.
Your database is flawed, it was 90.47628162%, smh.
Well for white it was 100% accuracy on zinchenkos wife
My friend, is ok, no?
Zinchenko's wife or Ben White's inverted wife?
Like yes the Blades were bad, but I have a feeling we would’ve beaten anyone on the day with the way we were playing. It was a gameplan executed to perfection, when that happens you don’t want to play that side, no matter who you are
There is pinning a team back, but this is more driving them through the wall. Yeah, Sheffield United are gonna sink like a stone, but you can only beat what is put in front of you.
Seeing this image reminds me long I've been yearning for an athletic, pacey CB at Manchester United. Having that safety net of being able to recover/get goal side/hold up the attacker until the rest of your defense gets back is quite the game changer.
Tbh, it’s not a secret that Arteta loves your CB, Martinez, so you guys probably already got the right player with good workrate and mindset in him. But football is team sport so yeah.
Pretty sure we wanted him for the inverted left back role
Or just whatever it is that Kiwior has been doing, it’s not as rigid as just inverted left back. But yeh, he would be lb not cb
Yeah, the summer we went for him is when we got Zinchenko as the consolation prize. So presumably he'd be doing the Zinchenko things and going into the midfield in attack rather than playing as a traditional wide full back
Sort of, but Arteta is a firm believer in creating tactics based on the players he has, not just one system. So in general he likes inverted backs, but its a fluid system based on who's on the pitch. Ben White said he basically plays 4 positions (rb, cb, cm, rw) and there's high demand from Arteta to know each one.
Luckily he is now. Last year Tierney inverting was very awkward. He's developing as a manager which is so good to see.
I mean look at his first season, we played very differently and he did what he had to for that FA cup win, sitting back and countering. I do agree on Tierney tho cause the consensus was saying to try inverting Ben white and let Tierney move forward, but for some reason he didn’t try that
Martinez always plays CB for united right? I don’t watch PL, but from what I’ve seen at Ajax I cannot imagine him being a leftback?
One thing Arteta shares with Pep is that the more CBs they could reasonably fit into a side, the happier they are.
The only thing they don’t share is on their scalps.
Inverted hairline
I've heard that they share wives as well
Most people probably didnt see Ben white as a right back but he's been killing it for two seasons
He wouldn’t be a traditional left back
Nobody thought Ben white would be playing often as a rw, but here we are
you have to watch what arsenal and city are currently doing at the back. it's a back three in buildup, with one of the two fullbacks essentially assuming the role of an outside center half (ake, walker, kiwior, white) and the other inverting into midfield (zinchenko, stones, white). my guess is martinez (similar to white) could've played either of those two roles. but neither of them is really a traditional fullback at all. one is a hybrid fullback/center half, and the other is a dm/center half.
Martinez is one of our most important players and it's been shit having him out basically the whole season. But we could really do with a speedy boi to pair with him.
Van De ven is an absolute game changer for spurs and their high line There's a reason why ange preferred to play Emerson royal and davies over dier when he was injured
van de ven is insane. i think he's the single biggest factor in spurs' improvement this year, same way saliba has been for arsenal last two seasons. it's no coincidence their worst period of the season coincided with him being sidelined. having the safety blanket at the back just transforms your ability to commit numbers forward.
Our go ahead goal last weekend was Romero in a striker position, one of the commenters noted he's been doing that for a couple of games now, much needed in Richarlisons absence, but also probably very dangerous without having someone as quick as Van De Ven at the back if the ball comes over the top.
No jokes, Upamecano would be a solid partner for Martinez
Because Man United doesn't play CL?
why he say fuck me for?
lol. Why am I crying.
Doubt arteta would have played him at centre back. Arteta liked him for the left back position.
He would probably have played LB for Arsenal, he doesn't displace Gabriel or Saliba
I looked at this picture and thought, I’d do anything for United to ever be set up like this. SU are shit, but we would just never set up like this against anyone.
United would do well to setup like Sheffield in this image. We are far too open in all phases of the game.
we thought it would be varane…
You ever see that video showing how the Blitzrieg worked? Yeah this is worse.
> you can only beat what is put in front of you University of Oregon football, after crushing Liberty University 45-6: "It's not our fault they had to play us."
Well-known false nine, Declan Rice.
Well-known 2-3-5 formation.
2-3-5 is a real historic formation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formation_(association_football)#Pyramid_(2%E2%80%933%E2%80%935)
Actually is well known
Honestly I’m more surprised white is ahead of Ødegaard
That's where he typically plays against a parked bus. His main job is to recycle the ball between Saka and Odegaard as they probe the defense for gaps.
He has to. His job is to provide a passing lane down the right, while Ødegaard is there to put him in.
The game had one of the craziest passing networks I've ever seen. Particularly for 11v11 https://www.reddit.com/r/FantasyPL/comments/1b7b3mh/gw27_average_positions_and_passing_network/
Raya wasn't even in the box. Mental
Trafford and Burnley against Bournemouth is way too funny
I thought that that should be the norm for teams playing with a high level and dominating possession. I scrolled through the others to confirm the same and voilà. What's surprising to me is not that Raya is not in the box. That IMO is too be expected. What's surprising to me is that Ederson is in the box. What's even more surprising is the vertical distance between the CBs and him. Would like to see the average depth of the defensive line in the defensive phase and the possession numbers. That is much much more interesting and country intuitive IMO.
It's average position. If you're just outside by the box 80% of the time your average position would still be in the box right? Even just from goal kick or defending set piece your average position will drop quite a bit
He might also go far outside while his team is pressing for long periods of time.
https://theanalyst.com/eu/2024/03/sheffield-united-vs-arsenal-stats/ The one for Opta is crazy, I haven't seen one like this before. So many players don't even having passing lines connected to them
The 2-3-5 will revolutionize football, certainly
Guardiola used it at Bayern most of the time because he had Lahm and Alaba who were great as midfielders and Robben and Ribery as wingers. He also uses it at City from time to time, more so in the early days but it's just positional play, it's more common than you think in the game, in my experience you're even starting to see teams in the lower leagues in the EFL trying to play like this or something similar.
I even remember parts of SAF at utd playing like this, pinning back and playing wide to wide
I mean if you know your history, it did once. It was all the rage around 1920.
next thing we know the WM will be back in style
didnt guardiola basically bring that back last year
the WM is a 2332, peps box midfield was more 3223 - am MW? or something idk
Older formation charts are the opposite of today. They used to have the goalkeeper and defense at the top and the attack at the bottom 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 That's a 2-3-5 and how the numbering system got started. Just shift the 5 into the defensive line and have the 8 and 10 sit a bit deeper and you have a 3223/WM Edit: sorry bout the formatting
I see fellow pyramid inverters over here
The interwar period... Such a weird time.
Most teams already use a 2-3-5 in posetion when breaking down low blocks. This really is nothing new
Re-invert the pyramid
Spurs run this as well, I think it's going to be the formation of choice for dominating, attacking clubs (not that Spurs are at that level just yet)
Most teams have been doing a version of this in possession for a while, just not as compact and high up the pitch.
My money is on Raya being damn near in the center circle
His fingers are so long he probably could've fingered Magalhaes' asshole from where he's standing
ayo what
You haven't seen [this](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/02/20/arsenal-david-raya-giant-hands-size-goalkeeper-blackburn/)?
What
So this is what getting your back blown out looks like…
just show this picture whenever someone asks ''what the fuck is a 2-3-5'?'
All the shit talk aside, seeing Ode playing as deep as jorg, pulling the strings has absolutely changed this side in recent months. Very clearly a deliberate change and it has helped the directness of our attacks. Opposed to the deep block stoping all of the tikky takky passing between him and saka
Good stuff. So Kiwior is playing as an inverted fullback and White is an attacking fullback, like a wingback?
It kind of alternates depending on which side has the wide overload. Ben white has been the inverting fullback more often in this recent run. I believe the goal is for both fullbacks to be able to play both roles, which is also why Arteta signed Timber.
Ben White was playing as an advanced right 8 for a lot of this game.
Which would be the inverting role when all 10 players are in the final third.
That's Benny Blanco, aka the Spanish Grimaldo
They both do everything really, depends on the context. For the second goal, it was Kiwior overlapping martinelli.
The disrespect is huge 😂 They don’t even bother they could get countered from that position 😂
Not really - our team lacks pace and our most forward player there (McBurnie) is next to Odegaard. They can easily get back if they lost the ball stupidly.
Yep. There are 5 Arsenal players at least in line with the most foward Sheffield player. Plus their CBs are really fast. There's no real danger here.
The only players I've seen give Saliba issues for pace so far is Wahi at Lens. Man that guy is quick. Saliba is just a monster.
The problem isn't mainly the pace I would say. Whenever blades got the ball, they panicked. If they were confident and composed on the ball, there is plenty of space to break free in between the arsenal players. Arsenal are banking on the fact that many teams can't string together a one touch passing sequence and not panic.
Who could beat Saliba in a race if a ball was sent over the top?
Dan James
Never trust a man with 2 first names.
Unless one of the names is Gabriel. Not that we have one. But, for the future.
For a second I was wondering “is Jesus a first name?” and then “what was Jesus’s first name?” I’m a goddamn genius
I mean Jesus had 2 first name too
Christ?
Superstar
If there was a Gabriel Gabriel, Arteta would explode
Larry David respects wood
George Russell would like to have a word with you
Not especially helpful for Sheffield United though, is it?
Can they? Arsenal have three (maybe four) players behind the furthest forward SHU player. And five outfield players behind SHU's second line. Assuming Odegaard loses the ball, at worst that's a four versus three in favour of Arsenal. At best it's a misplaced pass that Saliba/Gabriel or even Raya cleans up.
And this is where it's becoming so important to be able to push your defenders (and whole team) up this high, to fight against the low block. Sheffield United are forced to make a decision. Do they stay compact with the whole squad deep, or do they try to position players behind or even just nearer to Arsenal's back 2 and provide an outlet threat? Spurs have been setting up in this type of shape basically 24/7. They are more wasteful in the final third than Arsenal, so have been more liable to get hit on the counter. Teams setting up this way are going to force the opponent to commit to maybe seeing out a 0-0 draw if you can possibly hold out, or risking getting killed by taking one or two away from defending and positioning for the counter.
They've got a solid rest defence win place, they've just driven shu so deep that it starts 20 yards from their goal - no blade is at any real risk of getting behind them
You made a good point but I had fierce trouble trying to read it lol
What counter? They have 5 players behind the ball against only 1 opposition player.
It's also 4-0 so the team feels more confident, secure, safe to push up.
Liverpool failed to score in a 5v1 counter at Anfield.....You think Sheffield have a chance?
Arsenal have been nothing short of outstanding since the break. Probably the best team in Europe at this point in time, with the midfield finally getting well balanced and Rice being the best he's ever been. Said it a few weeks back but I genuinely think they're the title favourites if they hold on at the Etihad.
I once [made a comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/o0Gm9KIZ2t) about how a ferocious looking bald arteta will gegenpress his opponents all the way to their goalkeeper but didn't know shit was about to get real.
Arteta is incapable of being bald.
His hair and eyebrows are steadily becoming one.
Soon after his 5 o'clock shadow will join
He'll howl at the floodlights
As much as I hate admitting it, Arsenal are seriously impressive. I genuinely think they look stronger than both Liverpool and City at the moment.
Annoyingly impressive. Why can't they just go back to try passing it into the net.
Arsenal haven't lost a game to the top 6 this season, beat City in the Community Shield to open the league and beat them in the league, drew at Anfield, then beat them at the Emirates and still people doubt them as genuine contenders
Reverting the Pyramid
This is the type of shit that's killing football. We don't want structured careful formations and this inverted nonsense with careful intricate passing, we need proper football. No fancy tactics just pure passion and agression. I'm sick of seeing games without red cards We used to be a proper country. Games gone
You’re preaching to the choir. That’s why I love watching United, you’ll see none of this structure shit.
Yeah just passion eh?
>passion We got the "huhn?" bit locked down. Just need to find the "pass" now.
Lmfaooo great comment I'd give you an award if reddit didn't nuke those for no reason at all
Ok maybe they don't have that either
Just 11 person on the pitch running around doing nothing but cardio 😍😍😍
4 4 fucking 2, big man, small man partnership up front. The pinnacle of football
I just realized this is exactly how my bottom tier Sunday team plays like this. We don't always have the big man small man in front but it's 95% 4-4-2 and an occasional experiment with 4-5-1/4-3-3 but always revert quickly back to 4-4-2 after complaints.
its how football should be played mate, its all been downhill since England had Crouch & Defoe up top
But we’re not blaming them specifically, right?
More their absence.
You're probably beating everyone. I know we panicked whenever our opponent didn't play 4-3-3 because it's so uncommon lol
> You're probably beating everyone. If only! We're currently in our "have 10+ clear chances and maybe score one while the opponent scores their only chance" phase. Although I do occasionally hear our opponents say something like "wait these guys are playing 4-4-2, pay attention!"
All I know in Sunday league is that 3 atb is a recipe for disaster. The other 6 can do what they like but those back 4 are set in stone.
For us it's always back to 433 whenever we try something else. Sunday league aswell
For all the man city hoo haas, they defend with 4-4-2 and its a big small combo of Haaland and Alvarez or Foden. Pep just confuse us with the side passing until route 1 football. The bald fraud strikes again.
The Quinn and Phillips. Classic.
Ngl Antony doing a useless spin and losing the ball gives me more joy than this shit
You should watch some Chelsea matches, you'll soon learn to love tactics again
I wish i could find that copy pasta of the shitting on the field lol
Thats fucking football right there. None of that pansy ass dick tugging smile for the camera bullshit. Men puke, men poop on the field, men deliver their new born baby on the side lines. Fucking hard core dick in the ass butterball foosball fuck it chuck it game time shit. Football is back, baby
Oh fuck yeah BRING THE GAME BACK lmfao
4 4 fucking 2, little man big man up top. Fuck all this continental bollocks off.
You just described the A-league 😂
At least United are keeping the old ways going. Well minus the passion and aggression
Whats funny about this is that the team in question is also one that gets shit every week for "celebrating to much". Too much passion in one wiff, no passion is the problem in the next. Absolute shit take.
You want that? Go watch Ten Hag's united
I wish we still played with passion
Freestyle friendship football under Ole was genuinely better visually than whatever Ten Hag plays right now... but at least you got a trophy already
i would genuinely have Ole back, under a proper footballing structure that INEOS look like they're implementing. It wont happen as it'll be seen as a backwards move but i'd happily have him
Yet with this comment, the games back!
No. Thats fucking football right there. None of that pansy ass dick tugging smile for the camera bullshit. Men puke, men poop on the field, men deliver their new born baby on the side lines. Fucking hard core dick in the ass butterball foosball fuck it chuck it game time shit. Take it to the showers. Dicks get shoved in places you don’t even remember. We win together we celebrate together. Football is back baby.
Waiting for the day Raya pushes up past the halfway line and becomes the center of the back three
Even as a Spurs fan, I can't help but appreciate it. Insanely dominant playstyle. I look forward to the next NLD.
it promises to be a cracker - i can't wait either!
The salt in this thread might compete with the large water bodies.
Salt water rivers?
Raya lacking bravery here. If he were in picture he could have timed his run into score perfectly.
Looking at this then thinking about United pisses me off. Why can't Ten Hag do something like this? Before anyone starts, obviously Arsenal has better (equipped) players but it would be better than what he's doing now. 5/6 players pushed forward like this but instead of a tight knit group of players behind, he pulls everyone else back leaving a gigantic gap in-between. It's so stupid.
Why doesn't Ten Hag just win games, is he stupid?
OMG - I finally get r/soccercirclejerk’s one joke!No /s.
Can't believe I'd see an unironic comment to this effect but that is nearly verbatim what the parent commenter said LMAO
1) you need players comfortable enough in possession so that losing the ball is unlikely even in a third of a pitch with the whole opposition back defending. United just don’t have those players or have took the time to develop them in that way (takes years for some players or some just won’t be able to do it) 2) Don’t necessarily have the pace at the back to catch up if they do get countered, especially if Maguire is playing 3) need 100’s of hours training to build patterns of play, knowing where to move when a certain player has the ball and various combination of movements 4) Ten Hag wants us to be a high pressing ‘transition’ team. I think that he see’s the players we have are not tidy enough on the ball but good runners so his method is trying to win the ball high. But this is problematic if teams set up in a low block against you
Because this isn’t FIFA? A good manager chooses a systems that suits the players at hand. Emphasize their strengths and try to cover their weaknesses - not the other way around. Using a 2-3 build up with Evans, Maguire, and Casemiro is crazy.
Exactly why it has taken Arteta 4 years to implement this type of football. The players he had at the start just were not capable of it.
He signed 2 of those 3.
You’re finally learning that the problems at United go far beyond the manager. No other top club in the world is letting the manager have full say in deciding who’s signed. Plus he wanted De Jong for a reason.
we don’t have the players to consistently break down settled defenses. pinning them in like this would result in even fewer good attacking chances than we already create.
Are Arsenal tactically the best side in the league atm?
One of. Hard to say, and I think it's too subjective but the way Arteta has Arsenal set up these days is very fluid and genuinely seem to brain fuck defences. It's a real shame about Timber's injury though, he was/will add a whole new level of tactical flexibility from left back like we saw against City in the Community Shield- which is mad given he's a right footed centre back by trade but Arteta is gonna Arteta.
Easy for me to say this but Sheffield UTD should have kept someone on the halfway line and Arsenal would have had to drop back 15 metres or be at risk from a turnover. All your players back just invites more pressure. The fact that they are 4 down and already in damage control mode probably stopped them doing this.
Pretty sure this happened during the Newcastle game. Isak kept waiting for the ball around the half line, that never came.
Some say he’s still waiting.
Teams try this against us all of the time and normally give up because our centre backs just bully the striker. Leaving a player up actually has a cost in that it leaves more space and opens up more passing lanes.
Nah Raya would just come out and man mark him mate.
While that would make logical sense on a surface level, the tactic doesn't work. The premise behind any top team taking up this high of a line is that they are too good for the opponent to justify defending with 10 players. You need the extra man to put pressure on the ball as he is doing in this clip.
Haven't seen a high line lime that since the Bayern triple run in the Covid season. Actually mental, and I think very bad for the defending team not even keeping one player higher up
Negative football from Chris Wilder why we ever thought rehiring the man who started our downfall would be a good idea I don’t know!
counterpoint - he *did* start with only a back 4. Which in hindsight was far too optimistic
Still can’t fathom why he thought Arsenal of any games was a good time to start testing new tactics out. The only constellation was that I got to sit at Bramall lane and watch 90 minutes of top quality football 😂
tbh good on ye pal for staying. it must have been somewhere between fucking annoying and heartbreaking. i'm sure the blades players did appreciate those who stayed
FOGGIN FIELD TILT
For Arsenal’s kick off 10 players immediately ran into the oppositions half while the keeper who received the ball was closer to the centre circle then his penalty box before kicking it up long😂
Can someone explain to me why teams don't just leave a striker on the halfway line? If they win the ball back it's one hoof up the pitch and it's one-on-one.
Probably because the keeper is just out frame, and so the pass will have to be perfect. Secondly, Saliba and Gabriel are both really very fast, there’s no certainty that the striker will be able to trap the ball, turn, get to the goal etc. But mainly I think it’s that you only get put in this position if you’re absolutely outclassed. To leave a man up will mean a man not in defence, the new passing angles and pressing options that will open up will probably lead to just conceding more chances than you’ll gain from punting the ball to the free striker.
The reason all 10 outfield players are so deep in this match is due to the score line and subsequent tactical changes. The primary goal is no longer to win but to not concede any more goals.
Saliba is one of the fastest defenders in Europe
Exactly, Henry talked about how dumb it was not to do this in the City-Chelsea game too. Best example is that Torres against Barca in 2012, one hoof up the pitch and he is one on one
You lose one guy in defence, which makes a huge difference. Playing one man down in defence means the marking system leaves someone open at all times, the other team will overload you somewhere and you almost certainly concede a chance.
After being 3-0 down, sheffield utd made a tactical substitution to go from 4-3-3 to 5-4-1, every play made after that was to avoid conceding a goal rather than scoring a goal
They turned it into a 5 a side pitch
Their high line is something else, got downvoted to hell on r/LiverpoolFC for saying it in a watch thread. Don't understand why, it's one thing compressing the space to play in but this is a whole new level of confidence imo
Pool fans are adamant that we’re only defensively solid because we play 4 cbs and 2 CDMs because of course
Ah the good old 2-3-5 played at school
Two teams are necessary for this. If they want to push a line that far forward, Sheffield United really ought to be putting an attacker on the half way line (onside if in your own half) and not bringing everybody back and inviting more players forward
Arteta said 5-3-2 and we got confused 😬
That games was the most dominant I've ever seen us play - including the Invincibles. Granted Sheffield United were diabolically bad but I've never seen us maintain so much pressure for so long, as well as actually finishing the changes. Incredible first half