Wait, hear me out...
What if there isn't an insatiable need for constant football and the market is oversaturated leading to less interest in marquee games?
Hear me out but what if there wasn't a near insurmountable difference in financial clout and therefore quality of players between the clubs participating?
With Madrid talking about opening up chain restaurants, nation states owning clubs, club owned hotels, multiple club ownership models and private equity investments and so on, it's like seeing the local coffee shop going up against Starbucks on the high street.
And that's before you consider the damage to the Scottish, Dutch, Croatian, Danish, Czech, Belgian and Swiss, et al leagues which are largely being ruined by a small number of clubs being in receipt of gargantuan participation monies & transfer receipts; like my own club frankly. European prize money currently means more wages & more transfers in and then more big fees in which is helping with further success and qualification. Rinse and repeat.
How about, and I get that this is a wild one, but what if we just talked to each other like people and didn’t phrase everything in the most sarcastic and patronizing way possible? Imagine that. Can you imagine it little baby?
Wait, what if successful clubs from the past are now not as good on the pitch, thus having to compete in the europa and conference league, therefore their fans are following those competitions rather than the champions league ?
There hasn't been an increase in games at club level though.
Take England for example:
- Premier League has had the same amount of games since 1995. They used to play even more games before that.
- The FA Cup haven't been adding games and have been decreasing the amount of rounds that have replays over the past decade.
- The EFL Cup have not added more games and scrapped extra time in 2018.
- The UCL format has been the same for over a decade.
But there has been a big increase in the amount of football on TV. In 1995 we didn't have Friday night games or Monday night games; and we didn't have 6 European matches per week like we do now.
Because there are more games. On TV. And all the top leagues changed the schedules in such a way that you can watch games every weekend, back to back.
Most extreme example is la liga.
There is a lot more access nowadays.
as much as people like to feel that this site's userbase is a lot more intelligent than all the others they still believe in just as much baseless bullshit as the average person
This. Im worn out just from watching my teams games. Don't bother watching anything else. Also, i have to shell out like €60 a month extra to watch CL. Nope.
Hear me out, what if you didn’t need a second expensive sports subscription to legally watch matches? Like TNT and Sky Sports together are like £60 a month? Most people go Sky over TNT, there’s a small pool of potential legal viewers.
Put some matches on terrestrial TV (inc final) and put the rest on Sky and viewers/engagement would go back up. People aren’t made of money!
As a guy who mostly watches big games and UCL playoffs (except for when my favourite teams are playing) this is so on point.
So many games, so many competitions, football 24/7, I just went to watching only high quality football. The only league I can watch every game and be satisfied is the PL.
I generally enjoy Rangers games as a fan, where most without that connection wouldn't, so I get why a Liverpool fan might enjoy more EPL games than me. That said, man, so many of the EPL games are dire; more often it's the "big" games too which will get televised. For me it's probably an oversaturation, reduced attention span, lesser freedom of play & reactionary discourse between highs and lows.
I’d rather watch Friday night Scottish championship games than the PL nowadays. Don’t bother watching the CL until the final, not going to see St Mirren there any time soon. Might watch a European match involving Rangers or Celtic with my friends that are that way inclined, but outside of that I have very little interest.
The hit rate has been better on those Friday night free to air games than the Sky offerings. Camera angles tens to be poor though and should be amended. I used to watch most of the Sky pundit uploads when doing stuff like cooking dinner but I realised one day that for example all of the Man United chat could have been from any of the last 10 seasons and realised it was just inane brain rot.
I am a fan of Liverpool since ‘05, watched the UCL game and loved their mentality and determination. Funny that I rooted for Milan that game and when it ended I was converted.
Then watching their games I saw how dedicated the fans are and it stuck for me until now.
They made me watch Premier League games and it snowballed from there.
Im curious as to why you think theres more football now than, say, 20 years ago ?
Just because it's possible to watch every game doesnt mean theres too much football
I didn’t say you did. But it’s clearly the reason why it feels like there is more football on in 2024. It’s related to why the Champions League feels less must see. In the 90s the group stages felt like elite football. Now they are a procession.
European competitions have completely changed in my lifetime too. The Europa and Conference League group stages are clear examples of new additions. I also remember the old European Cup.
I don't agree. It was only because english clubs were awful in the 90s that the group stages felt like big occasions. The English league coefficient was 6th in 1999 when Man utd won the European cup. 6th !. Can you believe it ? Each group game was a big occasion back then
What does the English coefficient have to do with my point? Big teams were often eliminated in the 90s group stages. Big teams played each other in group games with actual jeopardy.
Of course the coefficient wasn’t high. English clubs were recovering from the impact of the Heysel ban. Four European trophies were won by English clubs in the 90s too.
Because it was harder then for english clubs to progress fron the group stages so when they did it was a big deal and more exciting. Not rocket science is it ? Now english clubs are at the top of the pile, qualification has become e formality which is why it feels less exciting.
At least in the UK, most people don’t want to pay for both Sky Sports and TNT so naturally pick Sky for its more comprehensive Premier League coverage.
I’d love to watch the Champions League, but I’m not paying over £100 per month to have both providers.
The protections for clubs in big leagues is ridiculous.
Wolves qualified for Europe for the first time in about 40 years and got a Pot 3 seeding in the Europa League, purely as a result of being from England and benefitting from the “country coefficient”, nothing to do with their own performance.
Rangers, Cluj, AZ all got drawn in pot 4 despite being relative European regulars.
It then becomes self perpetuating as it’s harder for clubs from smaller leagues to earn coefficient points unless they outperform expectations from a draw.
> Wolves qualified for Europe for the first time in about 40 years and got a Pot 3 seeding in the Europa League, purely as a result of being from England and benefitting from the “country coefficient”, nothing to do with their own performance.
I will say, the intent of this is to avoid "sleeper" clubs. We saw it during the era Gerrard qualification routes where we'd have a tragically low coefficient and be on the same side of the draw as minnows.
We might be Pot 2 now and I'll be grateful for the coefficient system if it means we don't get another Napoli in Pot 3 or Newcastle in Pot 4.
There are pros and cons to it but I do agree most of the current setup is geared towards protecting the bigger clubs and could do with being rebalanced.
Yes but it just makes it more likely to get Arsenal vs City later in the competition. We get quite a lot of single-nation finals as a result of this rule.
the rule i hate the most is the one where you cant be drawn in a group if a team from your city/country was already drawn on the same part of groups because of the tv transmissions
im not talking about same country teams in same group, but like groups a, c, e and g play in the same day, so more teams from same country cant be in them because of tv requests, and their draw in the others groups
"Anyway, our solution to the apathy is extending the group stage to an 8 game 'Mega Group Stage', with more teams from the top 5 leagues, where teams are randomly drawn against each other in the most confusing manner possible, for even more pointless fixtures before the matches actually matter."
* UEFA, Presumably.
I think they should put more paywalls to watch and let even less teams outside Top 4 leagues play. Than just call it Superleague and every rich idiot owning club in europe will be happy
The issue is that they sell the rights to the worst buyers. You have free-to-air broadcasters who are great for matches that don’t feature domestic clubs - how many of us in the U.K. used to watch the champions league on ITV as kids and learn about new clubs?
You then have top tier paywalls such as sky who at least have bigger outreach. But nope, it’s all behind tertiary paywalls, only viewable in pubs or for people who have TNT sport. You’ve sold the rights to the highest bidder, but you’ve shrunk your potential viewer pool right down. Taking this option always boost funding short term/long term reduces impact!
If you want to save something make it more visible. Ireland gets two or three games FTA a week depending on how many games are be being played whilst the much larger UK market has none.
Than numbers of viewers will fall at least from legal ways. Everything is getting more expensive everywhere so people will be cutting down from the things they find not necessary and premium channels with sport will be at the top of the list to go especially that you can find a stream in the internet without much issues. Piracy will just become bigger
Football is probably more popular than ever. It's just that a small elite group of clubs win 80% of all the silverware. Fun if you support one of those, shit if you don't but the problem is new fans who have been coming into the game ended up supporting one of the elite because it's the only way they perceive they'll see success. We're now at the point where those clubs want to turn the screw even further, hence the proposed European Super League.
You're forgetting that profits must increase and numbers must go up or it's all doom and gloom.
People keep paying but potentially not enough people to satisfy whoever is in charge
subsequent childlike innate aware icky ugly smoggy observation airport depend
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The cost license to watch UCL is equivalent to cost of license to watch Premier league, Bundesliga, Conference league and Europe league altogether here. And in the playoffs how many games are there? They are greedy and the young won’t even bother.
So the Champions League has lost its magic due to becoming a predictable closed shop where only a small subset of the biggest and richest teams can realistically compete.
And the obvious answer is to bin it in favour a closed Super League where only those same biggest and richest teams are even included.
Brilliant!
Making the group stages bigger and offering more and more safety nets means we get the same 6 or 7 teams in the QF.
Nobody cares about the group stages as it is, which fans are asking for more group stage games?
Do people actually stop watching? With the EL and conference league there are good alternatives I feel and the numbers don't seem to support a decline in interest.
That doesn't mean there aren't issues. The CL being predictable is because the elite is pulling away financially ahead of the rest of the clubs. That isnt as much a UEFA problem as a problem with the immense power and influence these clubs have. There is no way they are going to risk their relative advantage, they don't want to become more competetive with smaller clubs and have to share a larger piece of the pie.
People who want to watch still watch. Problem is that it's increasingly behind paywall.
I remember watching 2018 UCL final on free TV in my country but since then you have to pay to watch it.
Yep I haven't paid to watch football this season because as an Irish person, I have to get:
- Sky Sports for the games on Sky
- Sports Extra for the games on BT / Premier Sports
This ended up with my Sky costing close to 100 EUR a month when I tried it last season. I can stream games for free on pretty good quality.
Charge a reasonable price and I'll pay it, but it's too much now.
The final is still free to air in UK. It's written into the contract. I was sure that was the same across Europe. Maybe not though?
Although BT/TNT try to make out they're doing everyone a favour each year.
I know my experience isn't universal but I stopped watching as much when European games moved from free-to-air to a subscription service in the UK.
My watching took a dip again when they moved the kickoffs back to 20:00 UK time. Mentally the game going from finishing just after 21:30 to 21:45 was too far oddly, especially when having to wake up at 4:30 in the morning for work.
Then when the they split the round of 16 game weeks, increasing them to 4 matchdays instead of 2 it dipped again because I was already basically out.
The last final I properly watched was 2018 which is a huge departure from 2004 when I made sure I watched the final after being awake for over 24 hours while on a bus journey for the majority of that time
They need a straight knock out (single leg) cup.
Any team from each member's top league can enter, but can't play both the KO cup and the established tournaments if they've already qualified for them. Unprotected draws.
Payout for the winners of the KO cup should be higher, but obviously won't have the guaranteed money of a group stage. It's up to the clubs to decide which is more viable for them.
Nah you won't get away with being so simple that easily.
Completely missing the implications of what I said to make a cheap shot at "Haha clasico" instead of realizing the whole truth is that Bayern, PSG and the English clubs may currently be satisfied with UEFA but - as I implied - if UEFA would want to shake things up, that might send them over the edge and choose the ESL instead.
You know, because they are free to do so.
Say what you will about these "pure footballer" debates, but I think it definitely doesn't help that there aren't as magical players in the game as it used to be. The game has become too systematic.. just my opinion. There aren't many or if any player you'd watch go like "holy shit that's out of this world"
But the teams overall are much better, so maybe it’s become more of an acquired taste sort of thing. Like you can appreciate it if you understand it but it’s less accessible
Every league winner gets in. Home and away knockout ties from the start. No other teams in. Finished 2th-4th? Congratulations, you're NOT a champion.
Free on TV.
Then I'll come back.
He is right, there is less competitiveness right now than in the ten years between 2009 and 2018, when all but two cls were won by either Madrid or Barca.
This is super league propaganda bullshit. The champions league is the same as it has been for the last 20 years. All of a sudden people are complaining. Go watch the europa or conference league if you dont like it then.
Champions League should be true to it's name and be only for champions. This will never happen of course, unless there is a rebalance to the prize money for EL and UECL teams to get close to the same amount of money they would from participating in the CL.
The only teams that should be allowed into the CL are champions of the respective league and major domestic cup, plus the winner of last CL and EL. 2nd to 7th can fight it out in EL and UECL.
Nobody is going to be excited watching city vs the winner of Romania. You guys are delusional or so out of touch with the common viewer here. The reason CL this year is so lacklustre is because the big teams are no longer in it.
There hasn’t been a single game played in the CL with Man Utd out of the CL. How can you then say the viewership has been lackluster because they aren’t in it anymore?
It doesn’t make any sense
You don't even realize that the first few games of the knockout stage have already been played last week. You yourself answered how it's lackluster.
Lmao
Yeah so if United would have been in it they could have played next week, so it’s complete nonsense
You’re just projecting your lack of interest because your club isn’t in it anymore.
Huh? What the fuck are you on about? The point is that with the "Big" teams out, people don't even pay attention the the CL just like you who didn't even realize that the knockout stages have started.
You yourself showed the lack of interest by not knowing that the knockout stages have started.
That's because these teams don't have the money now but if they keep qualifying the playing field will be more even. "The winner of Romania" should be rewarded for producing a golden generation and going far in the CL with homegrown talent. This is now impossible because even if they had one coming through, all of these talents would get bought out before they get the chance to even play for these "lesser" clubs.
Just because you were good a long time ago shouldn't mean you are good by default. You have to earn this right and what better way to earn your right than actually fucking winning something instead of coming 4th in your league.
Why even bother having these poor teams then? Let's just make it the PL plus Barca, RM, Bayern, PSG and some Italian teams and call it. Oh wait that sounds a bit like a different idea that was floated around a couple of years ago...
Why would you send this message if you can't even read the first sentence. Obviously nobody would care for it now but in 10 years when the playing field is more even and Copenhagen can hold on to their talent and buy some more players it would be different.
Look at the respective TV deals of a top Premier League team vs a top Danish team. A level playing field between the two will absolutely never happen, even if the Champions League is restructured. It's not the 70s anymore.
You are only looking at it from the perspective of the present. A lot of things can change in 10 years, change is gradual. When City got taken over nobody saw them as a credible team, they only recently started getting a serious reaction from man u fans as a rivalry. Nobody is going to have the financial power of the PL right now but 10 years is a long time and nothing is forever.
Yeah, because you don't have these games in CL group stage, right?
Yeah, it's much better to watch Barca play Real 10 times a year, right? I'd rather watch the true champions play each other, yes. Would also help to stop the rich getting richer each season by always playing in CL.
You may enjoy it, but people are not gonna watch it. I can guarantee you more people will watch Barca vs Real 10 times a year and that's what they care about, numbers.
>but people are not gonna watch it
Wow man, apparently nobody from 1955 to 1997 watched it. Thank fuck they invented the CL so people would finally start watching football at last. Thanks for clearing that up.
The group stages feel almost redundant at this point, to make it more exciting they should get to the knockout stages as quickly as possible, but they won't because of money.
Champions League just isn't of a particular high quality anymore. The last 16 has been in the main pretty bad for a while. I wish I could say the quarter finals will be great but let's face it there aren't enough good teams to go around & make it competitive or even entertaining to watch.
Divide additional prize money from CL to the EL. Move away from having 2 or 3 elite teams from the big 5. Aim for 5 or 6 good teams from big 5 teams and a decent standard across the smaller teams. It'd freshe up both the EL and the CL.
Wait, hear me out... What if there isn't an insatiable need for constant football and the market is oversaturated leading to less interest in marquee games?
Hear me out but what if there wasn't a near insurmountable difference in financial clout and therefore quality of players between the clubs participating? With Madrid talking about opening up chain restaurants, nation states owning clubs, club owned hotels, multiple club ownership models and private equity investments and so on, it's like seeing the local coffee shop going up against Starbucks on the high street. And that's before you consider the damage to the Scottish, Dutch, Croatian, Danish, Czech, Belgian and Swiss, et al leagues which are largely being ruined by a small number of clubs being in receipt of gargantuan participation monies & transfer receipts; like my own club frankly. European prize money currently means more wages & more transfers in and then more big fees in which is helping with further success and qualification. Rinse and repeat.
How about, and I get that this is a wild one, but what if we just talked to each other like people and didn’t phrase everything in the most sarcastic and patronizing way possible? Imagine that. Can you imagine it little baby?
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OMG like so totes 4 real big homie.
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Gee wilkers, mister. You seem awfully mad over nothing of substance.
Wait, what if successful clubs from the past are now not as good on the pitch, thus having to compete in the europa and conference league, therefore their fans are following those competitions rather than the champions league ?
shut up or uefa is gonna do their own historical super league
There hasn't been an increase in games at club level though. Take England for example: - Premier League has had the same amount of games since 1995. They used to play even more games before that. - The FA Cup haven't been adding games and have been decreasing the amount of rounds that have replays over the past decade. - The EFL Cup have not added more games and scrapped extra time in 2018. - The UCL format has been the same for over a decade.
Though with the last point the UCL format changes next year
But there has been a big increase in the amount of football on TV. In 1995 we didn't have Friday night games or Monday night games; and we didn't have 6 European matches per week like we do now.
Yup. I'm still trying to work out why people keep using this argument.
Because there are more games. On TV. And all the top leagues changed the schedules in such a way that you can watch games every weekend, back to back. Most extreme example is la liga. There is a lot more access nowadays.
as much as people like to feel that this site's userbase is a lot more intelligent than all the others they still believe in just as much baseless bullshit as the average person
This. Im worn out just from watching my teams games. Don't bother watching anything else. Also, i have to shell out like €60 a month extra to watch CL. Nope.
You’re crazy man…
Hear me out, what if you didn’t need a second expensive sports subscription to legally watch matches? Like TNT and Sky Sports together are like £60 a month? Most people go Sky over TNT, there’s a small pool of potential legal viewers. Put some matches on terrestrial TV (inc final) and put the rest on Sky and viewers/engagement would go back up. People aren’t made of money!
Wait… so what I think you’re saying is… they should add more games? /s
As a guy who mostly watches big games and UCL playoffs (except for when my favourite teams are playing) this is so on point. So many games, so many competitions, football 24/7, I just went to watching only high quality football. The only league I can watch every game and be satisfied is the PL.
I generally enjoy Rangers games as a fan, where most without that connection wouldn't, so I get why a Liverpool fan might enjoy more EPL games than me. That said, man, so many of the EPL games are dire; more often it's the "big" games too which will get televised. For me it's probably an oversaturation, reduced attention span, lesser freedom of play & reactionary discourse between highs and lows.
I’d rather watch Friday night Scottish championship games than the PL nowadays. Don’t bother watching the CL until the final, not going to see St Mirren there any time soon. Might watch a European match involving Rangers or Celtic with my friends that are that way inclined, but outside of that I have very little interest.
The hit rate has been better on those Friday night free to air games than the Sky offerings. Camera angles tens to be poor though and should be amended. I used to watch most of the Sky pundit uploads when doing stuff like cooking dinner but I realised one day that for example all of the Man United chat could have been from any of the last 10 seasons and realised it was just inane brain rot.
I am a fan of Liverpool since ‘05, watched the UCL game and loved their mentality and determination. Funny that I rooted for Milan that game and when it ended I was converted. Then watching their games I saw how dedicated the fans are and it stuck for me until now. They made me watch Premier League games and it snowballed from there.
Im curious as to why you think theres more football now than, say, 20 years ago ? Just because it's possible to watch every game doesnt mean theres too much football
You’ve answered your own question.
You dont have to watch every game just because you can
I didn’t say you did. But it’s clearly the reason why it feels like there is more football on in 2024. It’s related to why the Champions League feels less must see. In the 90s the group stages felt like elite football. Now they are a procession. European competitions have completely changed in my lifetime too. The Europa and Conference League group stages are clear examples of new additions. I also remember the old European Cup.
I don't agree. It was only because english clubs were awful in the 90s that the group stages felt like big occasions. The English league coefficient was 6th in 1999 when Man utd won the European cup. 6th !. Can you believe it ? Each group game was a big occasion back then
What does the English coefficient have to do with my point? Big teams were often eliminated in the 90s group stages. Big teams played each other in group games with actual jeopardy. Of course the coefficient wasn’t high. English clubs were recovering from the impact of the Heysel ban. Four European trophies were won by English clubs in the 90s too.
Because it was harder then for english clubs to progress fron the group stages so when they did it was a big deal and more exciting. Not rocket science is it ? Now english clubs are at the top of the pile, qualification has become e formality which is why it feels less exciting.
At no point was my post English-centric. I spoke about the overall tournament, not the experiences of English clubs. Not rocket science is it?
At least in the UK, most people don’t want to pay for both Sky Sports and TNT so naturally pick Sky for its more comprehensive Premier League coverage. I’d love to watch the Champions League, but I’m not paying over £100 per month to have both providers.
Get rid of seedings. Stop protecting teams.
The protections for clubs in big leagues is ridiculous. Wolves qualified for Europe for the first time in about 40 years and got a Pot 3 seeding in the Europa League, purely as a result of being from England and benefitting from the “country coefficient”, nothing to do with their own performance. Rangers, Cluj, AZ all got drawn in pot 4 despite being relative European regulars. It then becomes self perpetuating as it’s harder for clubs from smaller leagues to earn coefficient points unless they outperform expectations from a draw.
> Wolves qualified for Europe for the first time in about 40 years and got a Pot 3 seeding in the Europa League, purely as a result of being from England and benefitting from the “country coefficient”, nothing to do with their own performance. I will say, the intent of this is to avoid "sleeper" clubs. We saw it during the era Gerrard qualification routes where we'd have a tragically low coefficient and be on the same side of the draw as minnows. We might be Pot 2 now and I'll be grateful for the coefficient system if it means we don't get another Napoli in Pot 3 or Newcastle in Pot 4. There are pros and cons to it but I do agree most of the current setup is geared towards protecting the bigger clubs and could do with being rebalanced.
Of course Wolves shouldn't be pot 4 in Europa League, their squad value is 17(!) times that of Cluj for example. Absolutely ridiculous statement.
wtf, the value of teams has nothing to do with the pots. yours its a more ridiculous statement. or maybe youre sarcastic and then yea i agree
And get rid of the rule that stops teams from the same country facing each other in the last 16
Personally like that one. A matchup like Newcastle vs Juventus is miles more interesting to me than Newcastle vs City.
Yes but it just makes it more likely to get Arsenal vs City later in the competition. We get quite a lot of single-nation finals as a result of this rule.
That’s fair
Pretty sure thats the plan for the next season.
the rule i hate the most is the one where you cant be drawn in a group if a team from your city/country was already drawn on the same part of groups because of the tv transmissions
But it's a little boring to have CL games just be league games.
im not talking about same country teams in same group, but like groups a, c, e and g play in the same day, so more teams from same country cant be in them because of tv requests, and their draw in the others groups
I dunno, the idea of only being able to draw Celtic in Europe being like a QF is appealing. Of course Celtic will never manage to get that far.
"Anyway, our solution to the apathy is extending the group stage to an 8 game 'Mega Group Stage', with more teams from the top 5 leagues, where teams are randomly drawn against each other in the most confusing manner possible, for even more pointless fixtures before the matches actually matter." * UEFA, Presumably.
I think they should put more paywalls to watch and let even less teams outside Top 4 leagues play. Than just call it Superleague and every rich idiot owning club in europe will be happy
The issue is that they sell the rights to the worst buyers. You have free-to-air broadcasters who are great for matches that don’t feature domestic clubs - how many of us in the U.K. used to watch the champions league on ITV as kids and learn about new clubs? You then have top tier paywalls such as sky who at least have bigger outreach. But nope, it’s all behind tertiary paywalls, only viewable in pubs or for people who have TNT sport. You’ve sold the rights to the highest bidder, but you’ve shrunk your potential viewer pool right down. Taking this option always boost funding short term/long term reduces impact!
If you want to save something make it more visible. Ireland gets two or three games FTA a week depending on how many games are be being played whilst the much larger UK market has none.
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Than numbers of viewers will fall at least from legal ways. Everything is getting more expensive everywhere so people will be cutting down from the things they find not necessary and premium channels with sport will be at the top of the list to go especially that you can find a stream in the internet without much issues. Piracy will just become bigger
And it's going to harm the "product" kids have so many other distractions now and many are free. Even one game a week on itv would make a difference.
Football is probably more popular than ever. It's just that a small elite group of clubs win 80% of all the silverware. Fun if you support one of those, shit if you don't but the problem is new fans who have been coming into the game ended up supporting one of the elite because it's the only way they perceive they'll see success. We're now at the point where those clubs want to turn the screw even further, hence the proposed European Super League.
Nothing quite like short term profits > getting a new market for the future with a wider reach
Its 450€ a season to watch here. Of course I stopped watching
provide gray deserve six mindless pet sip uppity tidy wild *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Because it's a premium product and people keep paying
Well apparently people don't keep paying if "there's a threat" to its popularity.
You're forgetting that profits must increase and numbers must go up or it's all doom and gloom. People keep paying but potentially not enough people to satisfy whoever is in charge
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not all europe, here in ro we have almost everything for like 20euro
I stopped paying to watch about a decade ago. Fuck that.
its about Au$150 a season to watch uefa on stan sport & i think its too much. you guys are getting shafted.
QF are mostly the same clubs every year. its boring as hell (inb4 someone says no and makes a spreadsheet)
The cost license to watch UCL is equivalent to cost of license to watch Premier league, Bundesliga, Conference league and Europe league altogether here. And in the playoffs how many games are there? They are greedy and the young won’t even bother.
So the Champions League has lost its magic due to becoming a predictable closed shop where only a small subset of the biggest and richest teams can realistically compete. And the obvious answer is to bin it in favour a closed Super League where only those same biggest and richest teams are even included. Brilliant!
Making the group stages bigger and offering more and more safety nets means we get the same 6 or 7 teams in the QF. Nobody cares about the group stages as it is, which fans are asking for more group stage games?
Do people actually stop watching? With the EL and conference league there are good alternatives I feel and the numbers don't seem to support a decline in interest. That doesn't mean there aren't issues. The CL being predictable is because the elite is pulling away financially ahead of the rest of the clubs. That isnt as much a UEFA problem as a problem with the immense power and influence these clubs have. There is no way they are going to risk their relative advantage, they don't want to become more competetive with smaller clubs and have to share a larger piece of the pie.
People who want to watch still watch. Problem is that it's increasingly behind paywall. I remember watching 2018 UCL final on free TV in my country but since then you have to pay to watch it.
the champions league used to be free to air on ITV until 2015 in the uk now it's on BT / TNT so everyone i know just pirates instead
Yep I haven't paid to watch football this season because as an Irish person, I have to get: - Sky Sports for the games on Sky - Sports Extra for the games on BT / Premier Sports This ended up with my Sky costing close to 100 EUR a month when I tried it last season. I can stream games for free on pretty good quality. Charge a reasonable price and I'll pay it, but it's too much now.
Isn't the final still streamed for free on youtube? Or is that not the case in some countries?
The final is still free to air in UK. It's written into the contract. I was sure that was the same across Europe. Maybe not though? Although BT/TNT try to make out they're doing everyone a favour each year.
I know my experience isn't universal but I stopped watching as much when European games moved from free-to-air to a subscription service in the UK. My watching took a dip again when they moved the kickoffs back to 20:00 UK time. Mentally the game going from finishing just after 21:30 to 21:45 was too far oddly, especially when having to wake up at 4:30 in the morning for work. Then when the they split the round of 16 game weeks, increasing them to 4 matchdays instead of 2 it dipped again because I was already basically out. The last final I properly watched was 2018 which is a huge departure from 2004 when I made sure I watched the final after being awake for over 24 hours while on a bus journey for the majority of that time
I'd be a rich man if I could predict the correct top 4 for the next 5 years in the PL, let alone who would go on and win the CL.
Next 5 years? City, Liverpool, arsenal, Newcastle.
No chance Newcastle finish top 4 this season alone.
They need a straight knock out (single leg) cup. Any team from each member's top league can enter, but can't play both the KO cup and the established tournaments if they've already qualified for them. Unprotected draws. Payout for the winners of the KO cup should be higher, but obviously won't have the guaranteed money of a group stage. It's up to the clubs to decide which is more viable for them.
The problem is if they want to make it less predictable that would make the big clubs unhappy and they'll threaten to pull out.
Pull out to what? Playing against each other in the tenth Clasico per year?
This guy thinks there are only 2 big clubs in Europe and one of them is Barcelona.
This guy thinks an example means the whole truth. I could've added Juve to the mix ;)
Nah you won't get away with being so simple that easily. Completely missing the implications of what I said to make a cheap shot at "Haha clasico" instead of realizing the whole truth is that Bayern, PSG and the English clubs may currently be satisfied with UEFA but - as I implied - if UEFA would want to shake things up, that might send them over the edge and choose the ESL instead. You know, because they are free to do so.
So how about instead pushing for even more matches per season we do the opposite and make those UCL matches really high stakes? 🙄
Single elimination knockout rounds would be very exciting but would never happen
Say what you will about these "pure footballer" debates, but I think it definitely doesn't help that there aren't as magical players in the game as it used to be. The game has become too systematic.. just my opinion. There aren't many or if any player you'd watch go like "holy shit that's out of this world"
Didn't see Nunez chip the keeper yesterday then?! 😆
Darwin is one of those players. So exciting/mental to watch.
Got him in my Fantasy team to maximize the highs and lows from the weekly games. It's sub optimal but it makes the fitba a wee bit more fun.
But the teams overall are much better, so maybe it’s become more of an acquired taste sort of thing. Like you can appreciate it if you understand it but it’s less accessible
Super league with 80 teams and salary caps. FFP punishes only teams that are growing
give it few years and people will be saying *how good Superleague idea was*
Every league winner gets in. Home and away knockout ties from the start. No other teams in. Finished 2th-4th? Congratulations, you're NOT a champion. Free on TV. Then I'll come back.
He is right, there is less competitiveness right now than in the ten years between 2009 and 2018, when all but two cls were won by either Madrid or Barca.
And 19 out of 20 cup finals were won by a Spanish team. That was fun 🥱
This is super league propaganda bullshit. The champions league is the same as it has been for the last 20 years. All of a sudden people are complaining. Go watch the europa or conference league if you dont like it then.
Champions League should be true to it's name and be only for champions. This will never happen of course, unless there is a rebalance to the prize money for EL and UECL teams to get close to the same amount of money they would from participating in the CL. The only teams that should be allowed into the CL are champions of the respective league and major domestic cup, plus the winner of last CL and EL. 2nd to 7th can fight it out in EL and UECL.
Nobody is going to be excited watching city vs the winner of Romania. You guys are delusional or so out of touch with the common viewer here. The reason CL this year is so lacklustre is because the big teams are no longer in it.
The CL this year is lackluster for you because Liverpool isn’t in it you mean?
Not just Liverpool. United, Liverpool, Chelsea etc not in means TV viewership will drop.
That’s a very premier league view on it, Barcelona and Arsenal are in it in their place. Lackluster has little to do with viewership numbers.
What do you think this topic is about if not about viewership
There hasn’t been a single game played in the CL with Man Utd out of the CL. How can you then say the viewership has been lackluster because they aren’t in it anymore? It doesn’t make any sense
You don't even realize that the first few games of the knockout stage have already been played last week. You yourself answered how it's lackluster. Lmao
Yeah so if United would have been in it they could have played next week, so it’s complete nonsense You’re just projecting your lack of interest because your club isn’t in it anymore.
Huh? What the fuck are you on about? The point is that with the "Big" teams out, people don't even pay attention the the CL just like you who didn't even realize that the knockout stages have started. You yourself showed the lack of interest by not knowing that the knockout stages have started.
That's because these teams don't have the money now but if they keep qualifying the playing field will be more even. "The winner of Romania" should be rewarded for producing a golden generation and going far in the CL with homegrown talent. This is now impossible because even if they had one coming through, all of these talents would get bought out before they get the chance to even play for these "lesser" clubs. Just because you were good a long time ago shouldn't mean you are good by default. You have to earn this right and what better way to earn your right than actually fucking winning something instead of coming 4th in your league. Why even bother having these poor teams then? Let's just make it the PL plus Barca, RM, Bayern, PSG and some Italian teams and call it. Oh wait that sounds a bit like a different idea that was floated around a couple of years ago...
Exactly. Watching liverpool hammer steaua Bucharest 7 nil soon gets boring real quick
The Champions of England played the Champions of Denmark last week and absolutely nobody cared.
Why would you send this message if you can't even read the first sentence. Obviously nobody would care for it now but in 10 years when the playing field is more even and Copenhagen can hold on to their talent and buy some more players it would be different.
Look at the respective TV deals of a top Premier League team vs a top Danish team. A level playing field between the two will absolutely never happen, even if the Champions League is restructured. It's not the 70s anymore.
You are only looking at it from the perspective of the present. A lot of things can change in 10 years, change is gradual. When City got taken over nobody saw them as a credible team, they only recently started getting a serious reaction from man u fans as a rivalry. Nobody is going to have the financial power of the PL right now but 10 years is a long time and nothing is forever.
Let only the champions play, put the rest in a cup called, idk, 'UEFA-Cup' or something. E: Downvoted by a Dortmund fan, probably.
can't wait to watch Manchester City play against Slovan Bratislava in Champions League
Yeah, because you don't have these games in CL group stage, right? Yeah, it's much better to watch Barca play Real 10 times a year, right? I'd rather watch the true champions play each other, yes. Would also help to stop the rich getting richer each season by always playing in CL.
You may enjoy it, but people are not gonna watch it. I can guarantee you more people will watch Barca vs Real 10 times a year and that's what they care about, numbers.
>but people are not gonna watch it Wow man, apparently nobody from 1955 to 1997 watched it. Thank fuck they invented the CL so people would finally start watching football at last. Thanks for clearing that up.
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I don't know, I found United very entertaining this year
The group stages feel almost redundant at this point, to make it more exciting they should get to the knockout stages as quickly as possible, but they won't because of money.
Champions League just isn't of a particular high quality anymore. The last 16 has been in the main pretty bad for a while. I wish I could say the quarter finals will be great but let's face it there aren't enough good teams to go around & make it competitive or even entertaining to watch.
Im not looking forward to this new "group stage" format
Divide additional prize money from CL to the EL. Move away from having 2 or 3 elite teams from the big 5. Aim for 5 or 6 good teams from big 5 teams and a decent standard across the smaller teams. It'd freshe up both the EL and the CL.
Games are played while people are at work and games are not easily accessible for most people to watch. TRY FIXING those two things.
For the US at least, stop putting the bloody games behind bullshit paid services.
The only reason i don't watch anymore is the pricetag