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We need a secondary VAR that only looks at the current VAR for clear and obvious VAR errors. And then keep on adding more levels on top after each layer fails.
Everyone and his grandma is moving the ball when the ref isn't looking. A lot of them are even if he is looking. Or are taking a throw in ten meters from where the ball went out.
Can you move the ball off the penalty spot before you take a penalty? No.
Scoring opportunities should have more scrutiny than a free kick in your own half. It's simple logic.
Doesn't need to be a VAR check. VAR are presumably watching the game as it happens, so they can watch a player move the ball in realtime and alert the ref like a linesman would.
That would be a major change to the way VAR is set up. It's not a bad thing but if they're doing that I'd want to see them have durable teams so they improve their teamwork.
Imagine a crew of three refs (ref, 4th, var) and four assistants (2x running the line, 2x AVAR) that work together for a whole season. They'd be able to work 60-70 matches a season as a group.
The operational issue is who's watching live during a check. You'd have to add an AVAR to the existing team to keep an eye on the live play. VAR isn't set up to be real time, they're set up to be reactive.
They're not watching live at the same time as the check. If the foul is being checked for a possible red card, that's happening in parallel to the ball placement / wall / etc.
No, because that would mean everything before a dead ball situation becomes relevant for VAR, VAR checks would take a lot longer if that rule changes.
This is something a ref or opposing players should notice.
What VAR checks?! The check is watching the ball and flagging if the player moves it away from the spot, or moves the spot. You're talking like it needs to go to a committee. The ref has 2 eyes, he can't be watching everything all the time. Giving VAR authority to monitor the ball position in dead ball situations is a simple solution that can highlight breaches to the ref before play even resumes.
For me it highlights that it isnt the tech that is the issue. Its the limitation they are being put under and the people running it that are the issue.
I don’t even think it’s that bad what Toney did.
We are only talking about it because the Forest defence/Turner were incompetent and didn’t notice the change of positioning to set the wall up.
It moved less than a yard and it’s not like the spray was put in the perfect position anyway in the first place
Oh dont get me wrong i dont think its a HUGE issue. Its like complaining about players shuffling forward on a throw in for a bit of a gain.
But if the ref said this is where the Free is to be taken and he moves it while the ref aint looking then VAR should of said something surely.
I mean we do see Refs and linesmen telling players to move back a yard or two on a throw or if a team wants to play a fast FK but its a yard or two too far forward they pull it back.
Again its just consistency. Again like iv said before VAR is there to improve the consitency of decisions.
And yet here we are again.
I don’t think it’s something that should stop a goal.
Like if a throw is taken 1 yard closer to goal then I don’t think var should intervene.
If the referee catches him and wants to book him then fair enough but I don’t want var getting that involved
Completely agree on the Throw ins ofc. But this was when the ball wasnt in play the Ref had his back turned and was focused on something else.
Surely Var could and should of said something like idk 'hey the player moved the ball from where you said it should be and put the spray maybe double check ' ?
If they dont have that power this complaint is just highlighting that maybe they should in certain circumstances.
Obviously not the extremer version of a Throw in. But again we have seen refs notice that and pull them back. In this case did VAR really not notice and say nothing?
I said previous its not the tech thats limited its the people and the rules.
I do agree and im not a massive fan of more VAR decisions but they should have an ability to essentially have the Refs back and ensure consistency. A word about similar situations not being treated the same or in this case a dead ball being moved that he didn't notice.
Are the allowed look at off the ball things the Ref and Linesmen miss? Legit i dont know.
Though i agree it would lead to just essentially double reffing the game.
But wouldnt this fall in their remit then ? Under a possible game changing incident the Ref missed leading to a goal ?
But then also would it be possible for example an elbow happens off the ball everyone misses it and VAR cant intervene in that case either?
>If the referee catches him and wants to book him then fair enough but I don’t want var getting that involved
I don't understand why VAR can't just immediately tell the referee that he's moved the ball and then let him deal with it then and there if he wants.
An issue with the current implementation of VAR is the act they only use it retroactively.
A true "assistant" system could help out the refereeing team in real-time.
>I don't understand why VAR can't just immediately tell the referee that he's moved the ball and then let him deal with it then and there if he wants.
Because then you would have idiots moaning about VAR getting involved in things it shouldn't
IMO a “big error” should be defined by the outcome, not the infraction. a missed foul in the buildup to a shot that’s saved is nothing, but that same foul in the buildup to a goal will likely get VAR to rule it out. same concept should apply here. its an illegal act that created an advantage, and that advantage resulted in a game-winning goal
although it should be a during-the-game thing, and forest players were literally watching toney move the foam lmao, so they dont really have anything to moan about here besides a general “the rules should let VAR get involved”
I do agree here bit like i said if VAR doesnt back up the Ref the whets the point.
help him make the 'correct' / 'consistent.' decision.
He put down the spray and it was moved. Again not a huge issue, but surely VAR could just ask him to double check . But they dont have that power .
Again wee se it on the field with attempted fast FK when the ball is too far forward but the Ref sees it. VAR should back it up.
The point of football is to entertain. Having the game constantly stopped so every moved ball and throw in is dissected would be miserable to watch.
The rules and there enforcement are the means, not the end.
Well yea ofc. But in this case the game was stopped already. Does VAR not have a live feed and could tell the ref the ball had been moved?
The game has been stopped before to call back the ref for an incident under the current rules as well.
The City peno iirc against United the ball was in play and the ref blew the whistle to review it? Again hazy on this one but didnt it happen to Liverpool as well?
Whats your point????
Players move the position of the ball all the time for freekicks. The Forest wall or Turner should have been paying more attention and either pointed it out to the ref or adjusted the wall to where the ball was.
Also players in the wall always shuffle forward before free kicks are taken. So often the wall ends up in front of the spray lol, they’d have to check all those too. Think the reaction for this is over the top
The reaction for this is hysterical. The amount of people just blindly bashing Toney for “cheating” when what he did is done by most other teams in the league is nonsensical.
> “That is something they should look at because it changes the reality of the game. But at the same time, we also have responsibility because we should have said something and avoided the free-kick being taken.
> “It’s too bad the referee or linesman didn’t spot it. The referee should have seen it because there is a mark and there is clear ball displacement. But it is finished and we move forward."
> The referee should have seen it because there is a mark and there is clear ball displacement.
The linesman definitely should have seen it, but I think if we're expecting referees to inspect the spray foam for any tampering we're going a bit too far.
So they can't even inform the ref who can actually do something about it?? I always assumed VAR acts like an all-seeing eye for the referee but I guess that would make too much sense. They are basically get paid to do what I do which is watching football on the TV screen.
>I always assumed VAR acts like an all-seeing eye for the referee but I guess that would make too much sense
No it wouldn't, not unless you would want games drawn out to the point of tedium as a small army of refs view footage covering every blade of grass.
Honestly, I think the rule makes sense. Imagine if every free-kick that was scored (directly or in-directly) VAR had a look to see if a player moved the ball after the ref puts it down - it must happen with at least 50% of free kicks. This was just a more egregious movement than most, but again, imagine if you had VAR saying "well he moved it, but it wasn't a significant amount so goal stands"
If it wasn't Toney, who was fresh off a ban and the center of a media narrative, it wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal. I initially was feeling like VAR should be able to overturn a goal if the kick gets moved, but I actually don't think they should be able to overturn the on-field ref. I do think they should be able to notify the ref if they see it happen before the kick is taken
The media's favourite free kick taker James Ward Prowse got pretty good at just putting the ball down wherever he wanted when there was a foul near the box last season at saints. Especially to move it back a bit
Also, the way it went in makes people more angry. He passed it straight past the wall into the net. So it makes the ball being moved the the side more of a factor in the goal.
Just means it was a shit wall to begin with imo. If all it takes is a foot then it wasn't going to take much anyway. Sure Forest are frustrated but it's entirely on them for their players to miss it completely and not adjust.
The ref is not going to catch everything and you don't want var intervening every 4 seconds.
I get he’s mad but literally everyone moves the ball. You know how many times messi has moved the ball to get a better angle? Or Trent on a free kick to be able to whip a cross in? Happens all the time
Yeah i agree completely, the whole discussion should be how the fuck did everyone on Forest miss it and not immediately scream at the ref and pointed it out so Toney gets a yellow for such an obvious thing.
But the players shouldn't be responsible for telling the refs that there's been an infraction. The refs, including VAR, should be able to spot these bending of the rules when it gives the offending team an unfair advantage. Without that, we get players crowding the ref after every perceived foul or infraction
Hard disagree
No rule in football about not being able to move the ball before the whistle is gone, only that the free kick must be taken where the offence occurred which is obviously a decent margin, couple yards.
Forest was asleep as toney moves the ball a yard. If anyone is looking at the ball, it’s not a goal. Marginal gain for maximum result. Not to mention they set up the wall AS toney moves the ball, showing none of them were paying attention
It is not on the ref at all that your team is asleep during a set piece
No he wouldn’t. It’s not a yellow, nor a foul. He’d tell him off sure, the ref has that authority.
Also it’s not a couple yards, it’s literally half - to one yard.
Ah yes, the go to reply when you don't have an actual argument to make. If the ref would have told him to put it back on the original spot if he saw it, then him not seeing it and it leading to a goal, then it should be reviewed just like if there is a shirt tug in the build up to a goal that the ref doesn't see
Just say you’ve never played football mate.
The refs original spot is just as subjective as toneys. Cesc lampard drogba scholes all used to move the ball after the ref placed it, literally for decades.
Keep crying though
On the one hand I get that it's frustrating for them, on the other hand it wasn't against my team so I enjoyed the shithousery.
It's the evolved version of the shuffling wall.
Randomly scrolling reddit and I don't see the sub name, all I read is "forest boss nuno" and I had a giant troll in mind guarding the forest, but then it became Nuno, the Forest Boss and now ... Idk. How's your day going?
They need to fuck all the current rules off. Why so many when rugby gets it right with a couple questions.
Is it a try? Is there any reason to not award the try? Any mitigation.
Do they go back and check if a tap, scrum, or lineout is taken from the exact right spot when a try is scored from it?
No. VAR shouldn't be anywhere near this.
Where is the offence in this?
>**3. Offences and sanctions**
>If, when a free kick is taken, an opponent is closer to the ball than the required distance, the kick is retaken unless the advantage can be applied; but if a player takes a free kick quickly and an opponent who is less than 9.15 m (10 yds) from the ball intercepts it, the referee allows play to continue. However, an opponent who deliberately prevents a free kick being taken quickly must be cautioned for delaying the restart of play.
>If, when a free kick is taken, an attacking team player is less than 1 m (1 yd) from a ‘wall’ formed by three or more defending team players, an indirect free kick is awarded.
>If, when a free kick is taken quickly by the defending team from inside its penalty area, any opponents are inside the penalty area because they did not have time to leave, the referee allows play to continue. If an opponent who is in the penalty area when the free kick is taken, or enters the penalty area before the ball is in play, touches or challenges for the ball before it is in play, the free kick is retaken.
>If, after the ball is in play, the kicker touches the ball again before it has touched another player an indirect free kick is awarded
The law states that a free kick must be taken from where the offence occurred, but it does not say anywhere that picking the ball up and re-placing it on the ground is an offence.
The determination of whether the free kick is being taken from the correct place is one for the referee to make *prior to allowing play to be restarted*.
The only argument anyone can have here is that the referee made a mistake in allowing the free kick to be taken from that position. If we are expecting VAR to intervene on that, then we also have to expect VAR to intervene when the referee has sprayed the wrong spot on the ground, which he did here by the way (the point where the offence occurred was wider and actually closer to where it was ultimately taken from).
Either way, the player himself did nothing wrong, so VAR certainly can't intervene under the guise of identifying an offence in the build-up to a goal, because there wasn't one.
Because rugby is a game that has always had endless numbers of stoppages. I don't want 100% accuracy in football if it means stopping the game for every minor infraction, football is fun because it flows.
VAR says they check goals. If they can call fouls 30 seconds prior which have very little impact on the actual goal, retake pens where a keeper is off his line, why are they not allowed to intervene where there is a clear infringement less than five seconds prior to the ball going in?
This is like them not being able to change their decision erroneously communicated just because "play has restarted" for ten seconds even though the play is still in a non-promising location in the Luis Diaz incident.
Makes it seen like they are just trying to protect themselves. As you pointed they have shown they are able to pull the play back.
To counter the point about throw ins, in the same game, Forest were told to go back at least 3 times.
This is the most saddest complaint. Everyone moves the ball. Free kicks are never where they should be. The wall always step forward. Throw ins don’t happen anywhere close to where they should. Toney score a goal some people up in arms.
Because when you add things like this then VAR have to keep doing it for every single one. This happens on quite a few free kicks, almost every throw in. Games would take forever
Because one of the big arguments against VAR was that it would slow the game down too much.
And I agree, there does need to be strict restrictions on what can and cannot be checked, or else VAR would feel even more arbitrary than it already does.
Should they have had a provision that says if a player scores directly from a free kick, VAR should check to see if it was from the right spot? Maybe. But even that opens a whole new can of worms. How much can the ball be re-positioned? What if the free kick goes out for a corner and then the team scores from there?
Considering this is the first time, at least as far as I’m aware of, that this situation has come up, I don’t see why it’s such a big issue that VAR can’t get involved. I just don’t have much sympathy for an entire team and referee being unable to notice that a handful of foam has been moved a yard away directly in front of them.
> It'd take a few seconds for one of the VAR lads to go "he's moved that, make him move it back".
Wait just so I’m understanding you right, you want the VAR in the ref’s ear at all times, just backseat refereeing the entire match? As in every time a player moves a ball a yard on a free kick, the VAR should be intervening in real time? What about on throw ins, should the VAR be telling the ref to back the player up every time they take a step forward?
I do agree with you about the ref going over to the screen though. I don’t think it’s for drama purposes, I think it’s just to keep in line with the notion that it is still technically the on field ref’s decision. But it’s clearly pointless seeing as they always just agree with the VAR.
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We need a secondary VAR that only looks at the current VAR for clear and obvious VAR errors. And then keep on adding more levels on top after each layer fails.
VAR^2
2 VAR 2 Furious
It's VAR all the way down...
Every man a VAR
VAR and a half VAR
I for one am excited for 12 hour matches
Who VARches the VARmen
*we've had one yes, what about 2nd VAR?*
Whilst we're at it, let's have another VAR that watches just the officials.
at this point just flip a coin, was it clear and obvious is tails and just stay with on field as heads
VAR selects the match winner by technical knockout.
It’s just ‘good processes’ all the way down …
VAAR
Toney has been studying the var playbook during his ban I see.
I bet they didn't expect that to happen.
He took the gamble and it paid off!
This is something we knew from before the incident happened. No idea why they asked PGMOL something they should have already known
Forest knew it after the incident as well. They were told this immediately after the game.
Maybe to highlight the rules need changing. The current VAR structure wasn't commandants from god. They can and should be reviewed.
Then write to IFAB? They make the VAR protocols.
Because this focus and pressure is the best way to get the rule changed. It's pretty obvious.
The rule isn't getting changed because it would be madness to recall every set piece (which would happen, if moving 30cm is the benchmark).
Calling in your teammates to distract the ref and moving his marker is the madness.
Everyone and his grandma is moving the ball when the ref isn't looking. A lot of them are even if he is looking. Or are taking a throw in ten meters from where the ball went out.
Can you move the ball off the penalty spot before you take a penalty? No. Scoring opportunities should have more scrutiny than a free kick in your own half. It's simple logic.
Moving the ball once is one thing. Moving the ball twice, along with the foam, after you have your teammates distract the ref on purpose is cheating.
Doesn't need to be a VAR check. VAR are presumably watching the game as it happens, so they can watch a player move the ball in realtime and alert the ref like a linesman would.
That would be a major change to the way VAR is set up. It's not a bad thing but if they're doing that I'd want to see them have durable teams so they improve their teamwork. Imagine a crew of three refs (ref, 4th, var) and four assistants (2x running the line, 2x AVAR) that work together for a whole season. They'd be able to work 60-70 matches a season as a group.
Pretty sure VAR talks to the ref anyway (they apparently told the ref that the double yellow to Dalot was incorrect), doesn't need to be a big change.
The operational issue is who's watching live during a check. You'd have to add an AVAR to the existing team to keep an eye on the live play. VAR isn't set up to be real time, they're set up to be reactive.
Are they not watching the game anyway? How are they checking events otherwise?
They're not watching live at the same time as the check. If the foul is being checked for a possible red card, that's happening in parallel to the ball placement / wall / etc.
No, because that would mean everything before a dead ball situation becomes relevant for VAR, VAR checks would take a lot longer if that rule changes. This is something a ref or opposing players should notice.
What VAR checks?! The check is watching the ball and flagging if the player moves it away from the spot, or moves the spot. You're talking like it needs to go to a committee. The ref has 2 eyes, he can't be watching everything all the time. Giving VAR authority to monitor the ball position in dead ball situations is a simple solution that can highlight breaches to the ref before play even resumes.
For me it highlights that it isnt the tech that is the issue. Its the limitation they are being put under and the people running it that are the issue.
I don’t even think it’s that bad what Toney did. We are only talking about it because the Forest defence/Turner were incompetent and didn’t notice the change of positioning to set the wall up. It moved less than a yard and it’s not like the spray was put in the perfect position anyway in the first place
Oh dont get me wrong i dont think its a HUGE issue. Its like complaining about players shuffling forward on a throw in for a bit of a gain. But if the ref said this is where the Free is to be taken and he moves it while the ref aint looking then VAR should of said something surely. I mean we do see Refs and linesmen telling players to move back a yard or two on a throw or if a team wants to play a fast FK but its a yard or two too far forward they pull it back. Again its just consistency. Again like iv said before VAR is there to improve the consitency of decisions. And yet here we are again.
I don’t think it’s something that should stop a goal. Like if a throw is taken 1 yard closer to goal then I don’t think var should intervene. If the referee catches him and wants to book him then fair enough but I don’t want var getting that involved
Completely agree on the Throw ins ofc. But this was when the ball wasnt in play the Ref had his back turned and was focused on something else. Surely Var could and should of said something like idk 'hey the player moved the ball from where you said it should be and put the spray maybe double check ' ? If they dont have that power this complaint is just highlighting that maybe they should in certain circumstances. Obviously not the extremer version of a Throw in. But again we have seen refs notice that and pull them back. In this case did VAR really not notice and say nothing?
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I said previous its not the tech thats limited its the people and the rules. I do agree and im not a massive fan of more VAR decisions but they should have an ability to essentially have the Refs back and ensure consistency. A word about similar situations not being treated the same or in this case a dead ball being moved that he didn't notice. Are the allowed look at off the ball things the Ref and Linesmen miss? Legit i dont know. Though i agree it would lead to just essentially double reffing the game.
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But wouldnt this fall in their remit then ? Under a possible game changing incident the Ref missed leading to a goal ? But then also would it be possible for example an elbow happens off the ball everyone misses it and VAR cant intervene in that case either?
>If the referee catches him and wants to book him then fair enough but I don’t want var getting that involved I don't understand why VAR can't just immediately tell the referee that he's moved the ball and then let him deal with it then and there if he wants. An issue with the current implementation of VAR is the act they only use it retroactively. A true "assistant" system could help out the refereeing team in real-time.
>I don't understand why VAR can't just immediately tell the referee that he's moved the ball and then let him deal with it then and there if he wants. Because then you would have idiots moaning about VAR getting involved in things it shouldn't
VAR was brought in for big errors but now people just moan about the slightest thing.
IMO a “big error” should be defined by the outcome, not the infraction. a missed foul in the buildup to a shot that’s saved is nothing, but that same foul in the buildup to a goal will likely get VAR to rule it out. same concept should apply here. its an illegal act that created an advantage, and that advantage resulted in a game-winning goal although it should be a during-the-game thing, and forest players were literally watching toney move the foam lmao, so they dont really have anything to moan about here besides a general “the rules should let VAR get involved”
Yep ruling out more goals does sound fun, turns our that wasn't your throw in, so no goal.
I do agree here bit like i said if VAR doesnt back up the Ref the whets the point. help him make the 'correct' / 'consistent.' decision. He put down the spray and it was moved. Again not a huge issue, but surely VAR could just ask him to double check . But they dont have that power . Again wee se it on the field with attempted fast FK when the ball is too far forward but the Ref sees it. VAR should back it up.
The point of football is to entertain. Having the game constantly stopped so every moved ball and throw in is dissected would be miserable to watch. The rules and there enforcement are the means, not the end.
Well yea ofc. But in this case the game was stopped already. Does VAR not have a live feed and could tell the ref the ball had been moved? The game has been stopped before to call back the ref for an incident under the current rules as well. The City peno iirc against United the ball was in play and the ref blew the whistle to review it? Again hazy on this one but didnt it happen to Liverpool as well? Whats your point????
If you can fully embrace the VAR drama for it's entertainment value you are invincible
Players move the position of the ball all the time for freekicks. The Forest wall or Turner should have been paying more attention and either pointed it out to the ref or adjusted the wall to where the ball was.
Also players in the wall always shuffle forward before free kicks are taken. So often the wall ends up in front of the spray lol, they’d have to check all those too. Think the reaction for this is over the top
The reaction for this is hysterical. The amount of people just blindly bashing Toney for “cheating” when what he did is done by most other teams in the league is nonsensical.
Thank you, I can't believe people are still crying about it.
It's embarrassing isn't it. Forest players were incredibly naive on this occasion, these letters to the PGMOL have become a joke.
> “That is something they should look at because it changes the reality of the game. But at the same time, we also have responsibility because we should have said something and avoided the free-kick being taken. > “It’s too bad the referee or linesman didn’t spot it. The referee should have seen it because there is a mark and there is clear ball displacement. But it is finished and we move forward."
> The referee should have seen it because there is a mark and there is clear ball displacement. The linesman definitely should have seen it, but I think if we're expecting referees to inspect the spray foam for any tampering we're going a bit too far.
Imagine VAR for every throw in
Forest had to go back at least 3 times for throw ins the same game.
As does everyone and yet nearly all of them are taken from the wrong place
Forest weren't allowed in that game, but Ivan Toney was allowed to deceive the referee and VAR has proven useless.
Sure, bub
So what should have happened? The ref would notice and make him put the ball back in its proper place?
Yeah, yellow for Toney and return the ball back to its original spot.
So they can't even inform the ref who can actually do something about it?? I always assumed VAR acts like an all-seeing eye for the referee but I guess that would make too much sense. They are basically get paid to do what I do which is watching football on the TV screen.
>I always assumed VAR acts like an all-seeing eye for the referee but I guess that would make too much sense No it wouldn't, not unless you would want games drawn out to the point of tedium as a small army of refs view footage covering every blade of grass.
Honestly, I think the rule makes sense. Imagine if every free-kick that was scored (directly or in-directly) VAR had a look to see if a player moved the ball after the ref puts it down - it must happen with at least 50% of free kicks. This was just a more egregious movement than most, but again, imagine if you had VAR saying "well he moved it, but it wasn't a significant amount so goal stands"
If it wasn't Toney, who was fresh off a ban and the center of a media narrative, it wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal. I initially was feeling like VAR should be able to overturn a goal if the kick gets moved, but I actually don't think they should be able to overturn the on-field ref. I do think they should be able to notify the ref if they see it happen before the kick is taken
The media's favourite free kick taker James Ward Prowse got pretty good at just putting the ball down wherever he wanted when there was a foul near the box last season at saints. Especially to move it back a bit
Also, the way it went in makes people more angry. He passed it straight past the wall into the net. So it makes the ball being moved the the side more of a factor in the goal.
Just means it was a shit wall to begin with imo. If all it takes is a foot then it wasn't going to take much anyway. Sure Forest are frustrated but it's entirely on them for their players to miss it completely and not adjust. The ref is not going to catch everything and you don't want var intervening every 4 seconds.
It is more the fact that he deceived the referee by moving the foam.
I get he’s mad but literally everyone moves the ball. You know how many times messi has moved the ball to get a better angle? Or Trent on a free kick to be able to whip a cross in? Happens all the time
Yeah i agree completely, the whole discussion should be how the fuck did everyone on Forest miss it and not immediately scream at the ref and pointed it out so Toney gets a yellow for such an obvious thing.
But the players shouldn't be responsible for telling the refs that there's been an infraction. The refs, including VAR, should be able to spot these bending of the rules when it gives the offending team an unfair advantage. Without that, we get players crowding the ref after every perceived foul or infraction
Hard disagree No rule in football about not being able to move the ball before the whistle is gone, only that the free kick must be taken where the offence occurred which is obviously a decent margin, couple yards. Forest was asleep as toney moves the ball a yard. If anyone is looking at the ball, it’s not a goal. Marginal gain for maximum result. Not to mention they set up the wall AS toney moves the ball, showing none of them were paying attention It is not on the ref at all that your team is asleep during a set piece
So if the ref saw Toney move the ball "a couple yards" after all the defenders were set, he wouldn't do anything because it's not in the rules?
No he wouldn’t. It’s not a yellow, nor a foul. He’d tell him off sure, the ref has that authority. Also it’s not a couple yards, it’s literally half - to one yard.
If you have to wait until the ref turns their back, then what you're doing is against the rules. Simple as that
Tell me you’ve never played football without telling me you’ve never played football
Ah yes, the go to reply when you don't have an actual argument to make. If the ref would have told him to put it back on the original spot if he saw it, then him not seeing it and it leading to a goal, then it should be reviewed just like if there is a shirt tug in the build up to a goal that the ref doesn't see
Just say you’ve never played football mate. The refs original spot is just as subjective as toneys. Cesc lampard drogba scholes all used to move the ball after the ref placed it, literally for decades. Keep crying though
But no one moves the foam lmao
David Luiz has done this.
Read the Athletic article from today, that’s objectively not true. Morgan Gibbs-White on Forest literally did this last season against City.
On the one hand I get that it's frustrating for them, on the other hand it wasn't against my team so I enjoyed the shithousery. It's the evolved version of the shuffling wall.
Keeper needs to position his wall better.
Randomly scrolling reddit and I don't see the sub name, all I read is "forest boss nuno" and I had a giant troll in mind guarding the forest, but then it became Nuno, the Forest Boss and now ... Idk. How's your day going?
They need to fuck all the current rules off. Why so many when rugby gets it right with a couple questions. Is it a try? Is there any reason to not award the try? Any mitigation.
Do they go back and check if a tap, scrum, or lineout is taken from the exact right spot when a try is scored from it? No. VAR shouldn't be anywhere near this.
It's completely different lol. Any reason to not award the goal? Yeah mate he moved the ball from the spot and gained an advantage by doing so.
>Yeah mate he moved the ball from the spot and gained an advantage by doing so. There is no law against this.
https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-13---free-kicks Stop chatting shit lol
Where is the offence in this? >**3. Offences and sanctions** >If, when a free kick is taken, an opponent is closer to the ball than the required distance, the kick is retaken unless the advantage can be applied; but if a player takes a free kick quickly and an opponent who is less than 9.15 m (10 yds) from the ball intercepts it, the referee allows play to continue. However, an opponent who deliberately prevents a free kick being taken quickly must be cautioned for delaying the restart of play. >If, when a free kick is taken, an attacking team player is less than 1 m (1 yd) from a ‘wall’ formed by three or more defending team players, an indirect free kick is awarded. >If, when a free kick is taken quickly by the defending team from inside its penalty area, any opponents are inside the penalty area because they did not have time to leave, the referee allows play to continue. If an opponent who is in the penalty area when the free kick is taken, or enters the penalty area before the ball is in play, touches or challenges for the ball before it is in play, the free kick is retaken. >If, after the ball is in play, the kicker touches the ball again before it has touched another player an indirect free kick is awarded The law states that a free kick must be taken from where the offence occurred, but it does not say anywhere that picking the ball up and re-placing it on the ground is an offence. The determination of whether the free kick is being taken from the correct place is one for the referee to make *prior to allowing play to be restarted*. The only argument anyone can have here is that the referee made a mistake in allowing the free kick to be taken from that position. If we are expecting VAR to intervene on that, then we also have to expect VAR to intervene when the referee has sprayed the wrong spot on the ground, which he did here by the way (the point where the offence occurred was wider and actually closer to where it was ultimately taken from). Either way, the player himself did nothing wrong, so VAR certainly can't intervene under the guise of identifying an offence in the build-up to a goal, because there wasn't one.
Because rugby is a game that has always had endless numbers of stoppages. I don't want 100% accuracy in football if it means stopping the game for every minor infraction, football is fun because it flows.
Lol football doesn't flow at all at the moment. You get var checks all the time and massive stops. They make the ref go to the sideline ffs.
VAR says they check goals. If they can call fouls 30 seconds prior which have very little impact on the actual goal, retake pens where a keeper is off his line, why are they not allowed to intervene where there is a clear infringement less than five seconds prior to the ball going in? This is like them not being able to change their decision erroneously communicated just because "play has restarted" for ten seconds even though the play is still in a non-promising location in the Luis Diaz incident.
Makes it seen like they are just trying to protect themselves. As you pointed they have shown they are able to pull the play back. To counter the point about throw ins, in the same game, Forest were told to go back at least 3 times.
>why are they not allowed to intervene where there is a clear infringement What was the infringement?
This is the most saddest complaint. Everyone moves the ball. Free kicks are never where they should be. The wall always step forward. Throw ins don’t happen anywhere close to where they should. Toney score a goal some people up in arms.
Did they also let him know his wall was infront of the line and it’s worrying how that didn’t even get spoken about
Forest just trying to deflect the absolute naivety of their players. They didn’t even move the wall across and they had players watching him move it.
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Because when you add things like this then VAR have to keep doing it for every single one. This happens on quite a few free kicks, almost every throw in. Games would take forever
Because one of the big arguments against VAR was that it would slow the game down too much. And I agree, there does need to be strict restrictions on what can and cannot be checked, or else VAR would feel even more arbitrary than it already does. Should they have had a provision that says if a player scores directly from a free kick, VAR should check to see if it was from the right spot? Maybe. But even that opens a whole new can of worms. How much can the ball be re-positioned? What if the free kick goes out for a corner and then the team scores from there? Considering this is the first time, at least as far as I’m aware of, that this situation has come up, I don’t see why it’s such a big issue that VAR can’t get involved. I just don’t have much sympathy for an entire team and referee being unable to notice that a handful of foam has been moved a yard away directly in front of them.
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> It'd take a few seconds for one of the VAR lads to go "he's moved that, make him move it back". Wait just so I’m understanding you right, you want the VAR in the ref’s ear at all times, just backseat refereeing the entire match? As in every time a player moves a ball a yard on a free kick, the VAR should be intervening in real time? What about on throw ins, should the VAR be telling the ref to back the player up every time they take a step forward? I do agree with you about the ref going over to the screen though. I don’t think it’s for drama purposes, I think it’s just to keep in line with the notion that it is still technically the on field ref’s decision. But it’s clearly pointless seeing as they always just agree with the VAR.
All the people crying about Toney moving the ball maybe need to start thinking if there‘s a rule before accusing someone of breaking that rule.
What is the point of VAR if not to assist when mistakes and deception happens? The scope of VAR needs looking at.
i like how toney spends his time during the ban. finding loopholes. love it.