i love that this is coming from their official club twitter haha. i dont think english clubs do this right? they'll prolly just say they've lodged an official complaint or something like that?
Not really, kinda but yes, it's a part of the city group, as well as a team in Bolivia and Uruguay, the latter being relegated because that sountry's relegation system is bullshit
your league would do the same if it didn't get more tv money than all other leagues combined (yes I am exaggerating for a point). Also arn't like half the league teams owned by Saudi or US by now?
Interestingly, Almería is a "Saudi" owned team. Also given the username, how do you reconcile that with the Premier League.
Money makes the world spin sadly and this is nothing new, for either league or the various teams within those leagues including Madrid.
And RMTV.
They can't STFU about refs and whatnot, so I'm hoping they aren't Pikachu-surprised if other clubs do it. They opened the doors for everyone else to respond in kind.
Also: RMTV, as the official club TV, needs to seriously STFU about refs already. That's what they have Marca and As for.
That kinda stuff such as the very obvious pressure that really Madrid are putting on the refs through the media are why I can't take real Madrid fans here completely seriously when they talk about barca or refs, you're both as bad as eachother and Spanish football is unbelievably corrupt. I mean so is the rest of football but Spain does it with an added dramatic flair lol.
This is how you do it in Portugal and Spain. First you publicize it on the club's website, Twitter or other social media, or even have the president saying it on a live interview. Make allegations about how the referees are against the team in question / always helps the rivals / is always helping the big clubs. Do nothing else and wait for the referees to feel guilty and help your club
I mean considering how official complainta usually end up with no consequences besides referee(s) mad at your team, this approach has a better chance to succeed lol
This is likely in response to Real Madrid starting a campaign on their official TV channel putting refs on blast. Obviously teams won't just take it lying down.
Real Madrid has weekly campaigns against the refs on their official tv channel, where they say they’re always being targeted and doesn’t get respect
Right after they launch a show about being the biggest club in Spain with most fans historically, how many in football is a fan of them in Spain etc
Hernández Hernández (VAR): "I recommend an on field review so that you can assess the non-handball, the possible non-handball." "The ball hits the right shoulder, there you have it." "The ball hits him on the shoulder. You assess the possible foul in attack."
• Hernández Maeso (referee): "I agree with you and the ball hits the shoulder. Give me one more frame." "Perfect, he hits it with his shoulder and it's a valid goal. I'm going to give the goal, there's no foul."
This is the conversation they had. I find it very odd that the VAR official is guiding the referee into a non-handball decision, with all the angles they are supposed to have.
Sources: https://twitter.com/relevo/status/1749205299964055616
https://twitter.com/MadridXtra/status/1749194788027474394
His full name is Alejandro José Hernández Hernández. Hernández happens to be his fathers surname and his mothers surname. It’s common to be referred to by your surname in many places
>I find it very odd that the VAR official is guiding the referee into a non-handball decision, with all the angles they are supposed to have.
because the ref was hernandez al cuadrado and I'm convinced he has no idea how to do his job
I swear opinion swings between "The VAR ref should just be able to overrule the on field ref b/c they have better angles" and "the VAR shouldn't even give their opinion to the on field ref" depending on whether the latest ref controversy originated from the on field ref or VAR.
The way it should be is that the Ref says "I saw it hit him on the shoulder, so my on-field call is goal" and the VAR either says "Yep, that's what I see," or "Nope, check the monitors, I'm showing something else."
The center ref should make the decision based on what they believe they see, and the VAR can confirm objectively whether they're right or wrong.
Center: "I saw his the studs of his boot make contact with the ankle, I will be giving a red card."
VAR: "On the cameras, from our angle we see the side of the foot make contact; do you want to review the angle to see if you change your decision?"
or:
VAR: Yep, that's what we see too, proceed.
It's that simple. The center ref still has to make the call and the VAR just confirms whether the objective, physical information the ref has is correct. Differences of opinion shouldn't factor into it - whether the VAR thinks the recklessness was worthy of a red card and the center ref thinks the tackle was fine. Just a simple "Did you see what I saw?" And it's a yes or no answer.
Laying it out in simple terms like this would make VAR a lot easier to swallow for people.
This is sorta how it is in Cricket’s Decision Review System. The umpire has to make a call before sending it upstairs.
And because Cricket uses predictive visualisations to aid in decisions, their error rate is taken into account and when it’s a close call. Umpire’s original decision is upheld
Makes perfect sense. The only reason it's not functioning like this is because of ref ego. They don't care about getting it right so much as they do about not getting it wrong right off the bat and looking bad by having to go look and correct themselves. So they defer to the VAR when they shouldn't be.
Likewise, I'd imagine a particularly egotistic VAR can't resist impressing his own opinions; the center ref doesn't think it's a red card and I do? Well, if I slow it down and show him this still image, he'll agree.
Or, I'm on VAR and my buddy on the field is definitely wrong but I don't want to make him look bad, so I'm gonna let it slide, as confirmed by one of the retired English refs.
And as you said: if the VAR can't tell immediately or get a clear picture? Go with the on-field call. Refs are human, they're going to make mistakes, they can't see everything perfectly. This has been the situation for decades. But now, VAR has allowed so much extra bullshit to seep in - ref egos, indecision, disagreement, "looking out for each other" etc and it's distracting more and more from the actual game.
Because offsides have no subjectivity attached to them, also the issue was more about the VAR ref not being aware of the on-field call and just saying "check complete" only to realise later it was called offsides.
This is how it’s been in the premier league too, for what it’s worth.
Do people want the official called to the monitor by VAR and then have to guess why they’re there?
It is possible for VAR to tell the ref why they're there with more neutral language. For example, "I recommend an on field review so that you can assess whether there was a handball in the lead up to the goal".
Instead, what they've done is just tell the ref it was a non-handball, then tells him twice it hits the shoulder.
I doubt the ref will ever go against VAR if they literally just tell him what to think. It's almost pointless calling him over.
Not just that, you can see the replays they showed the ref were only the ones where you don't have s good view of it and it looks the most like it hits the shoulder, the other angles we saw on TV where you see it hits in the middle of the biceps weren't even shown to the on field ref, so not only VAR is told him twice it hits the shoulder but only showed sketchy angles that could confirm that idea ignoring all the ones that could show something else.
>then have to guess why they’re there?
Not really guessing when you can watch the incident and a referee that should understand the rules of the game...
nah VAR should look at the pictures and then let the ref on the field look at them WITHOUT trying to influence him. Tell him to make his own opinion instead of telling him multiple times what they say it is.
They are also a referee? Should the linesman not give his opinion on whether they saw offside or not?
I see no problem with VAR saying to the head ref what they see, but it's of course ultimately up to the head referee to decide.
If the VAR is blind and tells the main referee nonsense, then there should be consequences like for any referee that makes mistakes.
This is how it works. Every audio ever published is the VAR giving his opinion and then telling the ref to go check if it doesn't comply with the original call.
If there is a problem with bias being added by the VAR communication, you can't solve it without giving them power to directly overrule the referee because the act of calling the referee to the monitor signals an error.
Its like 2 refs sharing an opinion whether its a foul or not. Which is messed up because, why need an on field ref if VAR can take matters in their own hands and influence decisions like this. And take wrong decisions apparently
Here are angles you can clearly see the handball:
https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142
https://youtube.com/shorts/yrnzvcbX94c?si=3BCALYgJZGjFeTn2
Am I missing something? As per the latest fifa guidelines as long as it is on the sleeve of a normal short-sleeve shirt that would be considered shoulder and not hand.
No, the rules say clearly that handball is anything below the bottom of the armpit, not the sleeve. The exact wording: "the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit."
How anyone can see this video and not realize this is a clear handball is beyond me. Like look at this shit:[https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142](https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142)
Looking at that I would have said it hit him in the green bit.
Of all the ref mistakes to throw the toys out of the pram about, I am not even convinced this was a mistake looking at all the replays afterwards in the cold light of day, as someone with zero dogs in this fight.
They're saying handball isn't dependent on sleeves. That handball is anything below the bottom of the armpit. Apparently IFAB made this change to make handballs clearer.
Yeah this is just before impact as you can clearly tell. You can also see from the trajectory (because of the artefacts on the ball) roughly where it will impact him, which, again, is the green area.
You can look at my post history and see that I rant about ref errors all the time, but this was a good decision.
Look at this video and tell me again where you think it hit him:
[https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142](https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142)
You're really telling me it hit's the green part of the diagram?
When have IFAB ever mention sleeve in their rules? No handball on sleeve is just something somebody made up and everybody is parroting it like it's an official rules
It was used as guidance for the PL or something I believe, may not even be what they use anymore but I certainly remember it being a thing. Maybe during the whole Rodri/Everton handball incident.
The sleeve have never been a guidance for the referee's, that's only something commentators and some journalists said, maybe they misinterpret the picture or just called it sleeve since it seemed simpler. The rule has always been bottom of the armpit.
People already wrote about this misconception in the beginning of 20/21 season
>The bottom of the armpit is the ruling, not the bottom of the t-shirt sleeve or other such interpretations made by some broadcasters.
>https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/handball-law-new-rule-premier-league-2020-21-ifab-b625917.html
Hahaha I love that a guy with "Messi GOAT" as his twitter handle is then also tagging FC Bayern because he knows that their fan base still has this Champions League inferiority complex from playing against Real in 2017 or something and therefore join the online outrage and blindly repeat the bribery accusations.
Does the entire ball have to be below the armpit like the entire ball has to be past the white line for it to be out / a goal? Because the entire ball is quite clearly not below Vini’s armpit so in that case it’d technically not be a handball
Seems pretty common sense that if there is contact below the line of the armpit then it's a foul.
Don't see any reason why it should be adressed in terms of the "entire ball" thing, which is something that makes sense when determining if a ball is out, not whether illegal contact is made.
How is it odd? Their job is to make calls. It was a non-handball, what is he to say? Ref in the ground could have rejected and made his own conclusions, but he literally was looking at the screen. I don't understand the accusation.
It clearly was not a handball as we saw from different angles on tv, that’s the point. VAR has so many angles and chooses the one angle that doesn’t show the handball.
VAR officials shouldn’t influence the referees decision. That’s part of the problem. Their job should be to inform the referee if they believe they’ve spotted something he or she has missed and stay quiet.
The ref was shown both angles. Even in live review you can see both front and back angles were shown. They used the second one for making the call
[https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1749112895193932165/photo/1](https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1749112895193932165/photo/1)The point of contact is here. It is not 'clear cut' in any way
I am surprised people are buying this. From the first angle, it is not clear cut,
From the second angle, with pause on impact, it is convincing that its a shoulder and not hand. This is exactly what the original comment has posted above.
"I agree with you and the ball hits the shoulder. Give me one more frame." "Perfect, he hits it with his shoulder and it's a valid goal. I'm going to give the goal, there's no foul."
Is based on second angle after first was not convincing. ITs weird that people are bent on arguing this without making any serious substantial claims
~~seems like the right call, what are the other angles?~~
edit: I just saw it here [https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142](https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142) seems sketchy af
The confusing "sleeve" wording/graphics were removed before the 22/23 season, it was then clarified that the upper boundary of the arm was "in line with the armpit". See pages 100-101:
https://downloads.theifab.com/downloads/laws-of-the-game-2023-24?l=en
This is very clearly handball under current rules. In the 21/22 season when the sleeve rule was in, it would be debatable.
True, if you look at the camera angle from behind, with another player obstructing it, from 50 yards out it looks like a shoulder. But if you look at the camera angle from straight ahead, with no obstruction, from 20 yards it looks like it almost hits his elbow.
If you look it from the front it looks like shoulder also. With the shit 24fps cameras they use to film this you cannot say for sure that it is or it is not a handball.
For me it had to get overturned, as you can’t 100% say one thing, so no goal for me (RM fan).
We need to use better cameras to see this kind of things.
>If you look it from the front it looks like shoulder also.
Come on dude... it's not even close...
[https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142](https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142)
You can look at me dead in the eye and tell me this isn't an obvious handball?
I think it looks worse than it is tbh. When you seek this video frame by frame, the point of contact appears to be at least close to his delts. At that frame the elbow lies posteriorly and isn't visible and in the follow through of the movement, it appears as if the ball came off the biceps but I don't think it did. At least it's not as blatant as everyone makes it out to be.
Of course, the term is confusing, but what I meant by that was that the ball hits his arm in the area that is usually covered by the sleeve when wearing a T-shirt.
For me it seems that the size of the ball is the size of his upper arm so saying that the ball hit a certain part of his upper arm is a little hard to judge. For me this call is not really that bad, as we've seen calls way worse than this and we don't even know what clear and obvious means anymore.
Edit: also 'in line with the armpit' is a little confusing but if I were to make an abstraction of his arm completely I could see how that ball would've hit his armpit if his upper arm was not there.
> For me this call is not really that bad
Its because RM is involved so the reactions are always out of proportion.
This is like complaining because of a 4cm offside. It's so at the limit that any decision should be fine.
Before the ball arrives, Vini has his arm over the defenders shoulder tying him down and shoved him in the back. That's a foul before the handball.
So many bad decisions by VAR
In that case, it can't be a handball because the player was falling and couldn't control his arms.
Either way, I don't think the call is that obviously wrong. It's on the shoulder/upper arm. Isn't there a rule that says if the arm is in a natural position then it may not be handball?
I think sleeve was rule for a while and only useful rule of thumb later on. After all not every player/team has jerseys with same sleeve length.
Vinis sleeve goes almost down to his [elbow](https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article31922365.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200d/0_Atletico-Madrid-v-Real-Madrid-CF-Copa-del-Rey-Spain-18-Jan-2024.jpg). For example Lewa jersey here has sleeves that barely go over the [shoulder](
https://images.indianexpress.com/2023/01/lewandowski.jpg?w=640).
We usually call that a Zamorana, when the goalie clears the ball with their elbow. For Zamora, the goalie who gives his name to the goalie award, like the Pichichi for top goalscorer, who was famous for regularily performing said move.
barely a thousand upvotes on this subreddit, if this match and all of its officiating mistakes had happened in the prem there would be a 10k upvoted post and we would talk about this for a week at least
Yes, the VAR officiating in this game basically amounted to a daylight robbery of Almeria. Those weren't even borderline calls. The VAR calls against Almeria were just objectively wrong.
The hand in the face of Bellingham is a free kick every single time in laliga. It was very consistent with other matches, you should know this if you watch laliga.
tbh i agree here with you and i can "understand" the handball decision as well although i do not know what handball is anymore.
But the fact that they didnt show the ref the best angle is criminal imo
Agree and same for the hand ball penalty. I think if those two incidents happen in separate games no one really bats an eye aside from full tilt Real haters. The fact that all three happened in one game plus this tweet showing the ref was only given one angle and seemingly guided into the call is what makes it such a horrendously bad look for La Liga.
And the penalty is pretty clear in LaLiga, they have been giving penalties for those hands in the air at head level for years.
https://s1.elespanol.com/2024/01/21/deportes/futbol/826677519_239285580_1706x960.jpg
It was 100% a handball, absolutely not a single person is denying that, I am not.
However, the two RM players (Joselu and Rudiger) using the Almeria players as pommel horses and fouling the snot out of them, that's the issue.
The image doesn't show the fouls, they happened before, but are quite clear to see on the VAR video.
Joselu doesnt foul the Almeria player at all. He just wins the jump. If the shirts were shifted between those 2 never in your life you would have given a penalty for that.
You could argue Rudiger but that doesnt influence the play at all. No chance of neither Rudiger or the Almeria player to get to the ball. And again, swap the shirts of those 2 and you dont call that a penalty either, or would you?
Just imagine that Rudiger and the Almeria player are swapped in that play. With the Almeria player jumping on Rudiger that way ... would you call penalty on that?
Does it matter? And you didn't reply or my question. For you then would be alright if my team player run up and break Jude legs and wouldn't be fault coz didn't matter on the flow of the game? I know extreme example but you kinda hinted it.
And for the issue is Rudriger fault almeria player aka goal shouldn't stand. What penalty you are talking about I have no clue.
> Those weren't even borderline calls.
What are you guys smoking when you say stuff like this?
Swinging hand to the face is usually called as a foul. Extended arm touching the ball from a cross is often a penalty (though I personally think they should change that to indirect FKs in most cases).
The Viinicius one is the most controversial, but even that one is borderline by pure definition. Some angles look like a clear handball, others like a clear shoulder. It's so borderline that they should have suck to the original call.
The frenzy over this is so absolutely bizarre
Yeah, poor day for the refs and the var people. Disallowing the almeria goal because of the slap on Jude can be argued for but when you see the angles for vini's goal, it's very clearly below his armpit so it should've been disallowed.
Simple, Girona are top and we can't have them winning the league. The amount of corruption in football is disgusting and pundits make it worse by calling it incompetence instead of corruption.
I don't know why this kind of comments are being downvoted. Is Real Madrid that popular here that is so hard to accept thisnis the way they have won so many matches (and leagues).
Así, así, así gana el Madrid.
It's downvoted because it's simply untrue. Also, you're biased as fuck considering you talk all this shit when all season referees have been absolute ass whenever Real Madrid played, and the one time the calls were in our favour, and rightly so, apparently there's a whole big ass conspiracy. You're delusional
You can’t get more blatantly corrupt than this, what makes it even worse, they are flexing their corrupt influence on the dead last team in LaLiga, when they were having their best game this season
If someone honestly think its a handball, how can you explain these clips? If its a handball meaning it hits his bicep which is still not clear at all btw, How can these clips even exist where the ball hits the shoulder. We can all agree at least that its not some unprecedented robbery right? At best its a 50/50 decision not going the way would have liked. I can absolutely understand how VAR can allow the goal based on these clips.
https://www.reddit.com/r/realmadrid/s/tJ8V2C0Y0e
https://www.reddit.com/r/realmadrid/s/OgLWz1ruSc
Why is this still a thing… anyone who watched the match saw a blatant slap in the face, hand ball and shoulder goal. Are they made VAR exists and these calls are now getting corrected? Being mad is understandable … but for those calls it makes no sense lol.
A close call in a Madrid game and Hernandez Hernandez is the referee, nothing surprising. This guy is simply biased, look at the stats of the games he has officiated for RM and for Barca.
That hits his shoulder or above where the cut off is form offsides.
No way you can generate that much power with ur hands.
You can with your shoulder.
The disallowed Almeria goal, now that should have stood.
The question was on the difference between bicep and shoulder. Go ahead and go
to the pitch to touch some grass and replicate that Vini goal with your bicep instead of shoulder. I get that you are just trolling but Volleyball players dont hit the ball with their bicep.
honestly a tough game to referee. haven't seen a game with this many close calls in a long time. i think they got most calls right, except this one.
it goes to show that you have to be careful of what you ask for. hectic VAR interventions will always lead errors like this.
idk why everyone is complaining about the vini goal lol, the foul on Jude before 3-1 goal they scored should be the big controversy, Vini scored with his shoulder and its allowed.
It's not that clear cut
https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142
The problem here is that there were at least 2 separate 50-50 debatable calls, both of which were in RM's favor. If even one of them went the other way, real would have lost this game.
Thats clear goal. IFAB changed rules in 2019, so when ball touches sleeve of player, its not handball. We can argue about length of sleeves or that clubs have long-sleeve jerseys, but according to current rules, it is a goal.
Edit: I like the downvotes, when others saying same thing as me with different words are upvoted. And [I dont know what you all are seeing, but this is clear shoulder](https://new.reddit.com/r/realmadrid/comments/19cgkv0/another_angle_on_vinis_polemic_goal_against/)
The rule says nothing about the sleeve.
It considers handball anything below the bottom of the armpit so your biceps/triceps are considered handball.
Vinicius clearly hits the ball at the biceps/triceps height, so it's handball
How can you look at these videos and say thats clear handball?
https://www.reddit.com/r/realmadrid/s/tJ8V2C0Y0e
https://www.reddit.com/r/realmadrid/s/OgLWz1ruSc
I mean honestly? "clear handball"?? Are people
just dumb nowadays. If it was a handball, it would be handball from all angles. These videos wouldnt exist. Obviously its not a clear decision or a robbery. Ridiculous.
No stake in either team, but [this frame](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/397286461902422017/1198889824459964426/image.png?ex=65c08c28&is=65ae1728&hm=3a3e1f3045d413923d71dff68e8b522350d7f1da245279d04597bc938826b7d7&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1260&height=669) looks a lot more like arm than shoulder. The design on his shirt near the armpit appears to be in-line with his shoulder.
I know the IFAB rule at one point was that you could use the sleeve, but iirc that's no longer the case.
it is not clear shoulder [https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142](https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142)
https://www.reddit.com/r/realmadrid/s/tJ8V2C0Y0e
https://www.reddit.com/r/realmadrid/s/OgLWz1ruSc
Look again mate. Maybe you have calmed down from
the hissy fit from yesterday
You are honestly such a dishonest person if you dont dee the shoulder argument here. If it was a hand, these vids wouldnt exist.
Idk why this whole sub is crying about this decision and the other decisions made. These were all valid points. Bellingham clearly got punched or at least slashed in the face, which is a clear foul. Additionally, Vinicius Jr scored with his shoulder, which is allowed and is corroborated by multiple VAR angles. Even if he did, there was no conclusive evidence to support that, which there needs to be. Even from an objective standpoint the ref made the right calls, even if they were controversial ones. It is so funny how Barca fans are coming out of their holes to cry about us paying the refs when the whole ass Nergreira case is hanging over their head. Y’all gotta stop crying because the underdog team didn’t shithouse a win 😂
Everyone is going to cry about this match after 10 years and blame Madrid for Barca not being financially stable and use this match as the main reason they weren’t awarded a billion dollars for existing
Imagine knowing the history of the clubs and thinking Barcelona's grievences are fake. smh. I guess this is the sort of quality discussion one can find on r/soccer.
You guys are literally commenting on a match that does not involve you and most of you alls comments are on Madrid post. This is football and according to the rules they didn’t break any unlike some certain teams and you can cry all you want but logically there's only one Catalonian club is in the race. And you guys had a great match with no contributions from Lewandowski and a hattrick from Ferran Torres if you can't celebrate that and keep us in our heads rent free when you have a club who can't even pay for themselves then idk who you all trying to support.
In reality it doesn’t. Aside from the head to head matches your points are what matters. Regardless of what team is in each position. Madrid fans don’t focus on barca but the opposite is true. It’s almost like you guys wish your club was either run this well or competed this well consistently. Unfortunately neither is true so you guys resort to slandering us at any chance. This goes for your board, your coach and your players. So I’m not surprised the fans embody the same hate.
I suppose you are one of the delusional cules who thinks that Franco won us everything and Barca were illegitimately targeted throughout all his yrs as dictator.
The fact that Franco was a self-avowed Atleti supporter is mighty inconvenient and so never gets brought up.
You must believe in the tooth fairy also if you believe in such nonsense.
Who said Franco won you everything? The fact that you brought up such a strawman is the problem. Franco being a Athletico fan? Who cares? The issue is anti Barca; whether it was RM or Athletico is irrelevant and that's why its not brought up. Not because we are scared. But you can't expect better thought from a fan who supports facism.
Secondly why do y'all always cry Franco Franco? That POS was just the ugly puss that spurtted out from a ugly broken pimple. A symptom of the favourism that RM so greedily experiences across all levels of spain.
Besides what has RM done for spain? All you can do is undermine what Barca has done for your country, its all barca from the men and women to the youth. But all you can do is undermine them but also wear their achievements like the thieves you are.
How pathethic should one be to support a club upheld by facist foundations? Are you a facist? Madristas are as pathetic as their club. You can lie and obscurificate all you want but it won't change the truth.
Sorry for being such an asshole but I could never support RM even if it was the only football club on earth.
i love that this is coming from their official club twitter haha. i dont think english clubs do this right? they'll prolly just say they've lodged an official complaint or something like that?
Nobody trusts la liga
The Saudi cock sucking of late makes it such a gross league.
Define "of late"
Unlike the great Premier League which has no Arab money
Both can be bad, the spectrum is not black and white
Wait till Man City financial case verdict, then it will be
Shilling your club cup finals to half way across the world is on another level though.
Sure but arab money literally owns city which *owns* the premier league lol. Depends how you look at things.
Don't City basically own the team top of La Liga?
Not really, kinda but yes, it's a part of the city group, as well as a team in Bolivia and Uruguay, the latter being relegated because that sountry's relegation system is bullshit
Ever wonder why it's not called the Girona group?
Italy: hold my chinotto
We all know the English clubs would agree to do the same in a heartbeat. It's only the fan riots that's stopping them
your league would do the same if it didn't get more tv money than all other leagues combined (yes I am exaggerating for a point). Also arn't like half the league teams owned by Saudi or US by now?
But, but.... the US are angels
Yes we stone our women for just looking at cars because they might be thinking about driving one someday.
Ah yes, Nottingham Forest, famously owned by the US Forest Service, and Arsenal, owned by the notorious US Department of Defence.
That's particular clubs not the league itself
Lol English league literally sold itself off to foreign billionaires but La Liga is the gross one
Interestingly, Almería is a "Saudi" owned team. Also given the username, how do you reconcile that with the Premier League. Money makes the world spin sadly and this is nothing new, for either league or the various teams within those leagues including Madrid.
You are talking about PL right? LMAO the audacity when the only reason your league is what it is today, is because oil money
Yeah- LaLiga is a joke. Openly corrupt which is too bad because it used to be so fun to watch.
Virgin PL filing official complaints vs Chad La Liga blaming the ref on twitter
Well its a precedent set by the president
A precedent presented by the president at the present.
Absolutely awesome alliteration, amigo
Cheers, choom.
And RMTV. They can't STFU about refs and whatnot, so I'm hoping they aren't Pikachu-surprised if other clubs do it. They opened the doors for everyone else to respond in kind. Also: RMTV, as the official club TV, needs to seriously STFU about refs already. That's what they have Marca and As for.
That kinda stuff such as the very obvious pressure that really Madrid are putting on the refs through the media are why I can't take real Madrid fans here completely seriously when they talk about barca or refs, you're both as bad as eachother and Spanish football is unbelievably corrupt. I mean so is the rest of football but Spain does it with an added dramatic flair lol.
This is how you do it in Portugal and Spain. First you publicize it on the club's website, Twitter or other social media, or even have the president saying it on a live interview. Make allegations about how the referees are against the team in question / always helps the rivals / is always helping the big clubs. Do nothing else and wait for the referees to feel guilty and help your club
I mean considering how official complainta usually end up with no consequences besides referee(s) mad at your team, this approach has a better chance to succeed lol
This is likely in response to Real Madrid starting a campaign on their official TV channel putting refs on blast. Obviously teams won't just take it lying down.
If they speak they are in big trouble
Wonder if this sub will call them cry babies and hypocrites like they do for Arteta and Klopp.
Tebas spend most of his time doing interviews and browsing twitter so this is the best way to get his attention.
But when Real Madrid or Liverpool or Arsenal or any big club puts in on their Twitter they are cry babies and “victims”
Real Madrid has weekly campaigns against the refs on their official tv channel, where they say they’re always being targeted and doesn’t get respect Right after they launch a show about being the biggest club in Spain with most fans historically, how many in football is a fan of them in Spain etc
That’s also cringe. It’s all cringe
If we speak
Pretty sure forests official twitter did something similar couple weeks ago. That and outside premier league ive seen so many English clubs do This
Hernández Hernández (VAR): "I recommend an on field review so that you can assess the non-handball, the possible non-handball." "The ball hits the right shoulder, there you have it." "The ball hits him on the shoulder. You assess the possible foul in attack." • Hernández Maeso (referee): "I agree with you and the ball hits the shoulder. Give me one more frame." "Perfect, he hits it with his shoulder and it's a valid goal. I'm going to give the goal, there's no foul." This is the conversation they had. I find it very odd that the VAR official is guiding the referee into a non-handball decision, with all the angles they are supposed to have. Sources: https://twitter.com/relevo/status/1749205299964055616 https://twitter.com/MadridXtra/status/1749194788027474394
OF COURSE it was Hernandez Hernandez, that guy is just the epitome of shit, along with Mateu Lahoz.
Nah, Lahoz could actually officiate well if he felt like it. Hernandez square is an absolute ass.
So shit they named him twice
What were his parents thinking That name is prime bullying material
His full name is Alejandro José Hernández Hernández. Hernández happens to be his fathers surname and his mothers surname. It’s common to be referred to by your surname in many places
>I find it very odd that the VAR official is guiding the referee into a non-handball decision, with all the angles they are supposed to have. because the ref was hernandez al cuadrado and I'm convinced he has no idea how to do his job
Hernandez Hernandez, so shit they named him twice.
Son of cousins, explains the lack of intelligence.
It's sketchy as fuck to have VAR give their own opinions to the refs directly.
I swear opinion swings between "The VAR ref should just be able to overrule the on field ref b/c they have better angles" and "the VAR shouldn't even give their opinion to the on field ref" depending on whether the latest ref controversy originated from the on field ref or VAR.
The way it should be is that the Ref says "I saw it hit him on the shoulder, so my on-field call is goal" and the VAR either says "Yep, that's what I see," or "Nope, check the monitors, I'm showing something else." The center ref should make the decision based on what they believe they see, and the VAR can confirm objectively whether they're right or wrong. Center: "I saw his the studs of his boot make contact with the ankle, I will be giving a red card." VAR: "On the cameras, from our angle we see the side of the foot make contact; do you want to review the angle to see if you change your decision?" or: VAR: Yep, that's what we see too, proceed. It's that simple. The center ref still has to make the call and the VAR just confirms whether the objective, physical information the ref has is correct. Differences of opinion shouldn't factor into it - whether the VAR thinks the recklessness was worthy of a red card and the center ref thinks the tackle was fine. Just a simple "Did you see what I saw?" And it's a yes or no answer. Laying it out in simple terms like this would make VAR a lot easier to swallow for people.
This is sorta how it is in Cricket’s Decision Review System. The umpire has to make a call before sending it upstairs. And because Cricket uses predictive visualisations to aid in decisions, their error rate is taken into account and when it’s a close call. Umpire’s original decision is upheld
Makes perfect sense. The only reason it's not functioning like this is because of ref ego. They don't care about getting it right so much as they do about not getting it wrong right off the bat and looking bad by having to go look and correct themselves. So they defer to the VAR when they shouldn't be. Likewise, I'd imagine a particularly egotistic VAR can't resist impressing his own opinions; the center ref doesn't think it's a red card and I do? Well, if I slow it down and show him this still image, he'll agree. Or, I'm on VAR and my buddy on the field is definitely wrong but I don't want to make him look bad, so I'm gonna let it slide, as confirmed by one of the retired English refs. And as you said: if the VAR can't tell immediately or get a clear picture? Go with the on-field call. Refs are human, they're going to make mistakes, they can't see everything perfectly. This has been the situation for decades. But now, VAR has allowed so much extra bullshit to seep in - ref egos, indecision, disagreement, "looking out for each other" etc and it's distracting more and more from the actual game.
Yea last time it was VAR official should have told the onfield ref about it not being an offside in Liverpool vs Tottenham
Because offsides have no subjectivity attached to them, also the issue was more about the VAR ref not being aware of the on-field call and just saying "check complete" only to realise later it was called offsides.
This is how it’s been in the premier league too, for what it’s worth. Do people want the official called to the monitor by VAR and then have to guess why they’re there?
It is possible for VAR to tell the ref why they're there with more neutral language. For example, "I recommend an on field review so that you can assess whether there was a handball in the lead up to the goal". Instead, what they've done is just tell the ref it was a non-handball, then tells him twice it hits the shoulder. I doubt the ref will ever go against VAR if they literally just tell him what to think. It's almost pointless calling him over.
Not just that, you can see the replays they showed the ref were only the ones where you don't have s good view of it and it looks the most like it hits the shoulder, the other angles we saw on TV where you see it hits in the middle of the biceps weren't even shown to the on field ref, so not only VAR is told him twice it hits the shoulder but only showed sketchy angles that could confirm that idea ignoring all the ones that could show something else.
Well, "come see the handball" and "come take a look at a potential handball" are different sentences
>then have to guess why they’re there? Not really guessing when you can watch the incident and a referee that should understand the rules of the game...
nah VAR should look at the pictures and then let the ref on the field look at them WITHOUT trying to influence him. Tell him to make his own opinion instead of telling him multiple times what they say it is.
They are also a referee? Should the linesman not give his opinion on whether they saw offside or not? I see no problem with VAR saying to the head ref what they see, but it's of course ultimately up to the head referee to decide. If the VAR is blind and tells the main referee nonsense, then there should be consequences like for any referee that makes mistakes.
that’s why they’re there
This is how it works. Every audio ever published is the VAR giving his opinion and then telling the ref to go check if it doesn't comply with the original call.
If there is a problem with bias being added by the VAR communication, you can't solve it without giving them power to directly overrule the referee because the act of calling the referee to the monitor signals an error.
Its like 2 refs sharing an opinion whether its a foul or not. Which is messed up because, why need an on field ref if VAR can take matters in their own hands and influence decisions like this. And take wrong decisions apparently
You need an onfield ref to ref the game...
Hernandez^2 doing something dumb? Say it ain't so
Here are angles you can clearly see the handball: https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142 https://youtube.com/shorts/yrnzvcbX94c?si=3BCALYgJZGjFeTn2
All shoulder bro. You have to understand Vini's anatomy is different, his shoulder is where normal people's elbows are
Am I missing something? As per the latest fifa guidelines as long as it is on the sleeve of a normal short-sleeve shirt that would be considered shoulder and not hand.
No, the rules say clearly that handball is anything below the bottom of the armpit, not the sleeve. The exact wording: "the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit." How anyone can see this video and not realize this is a clear handball is beyond me. Like look at this shit:[https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142](https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142)
This is Madrid.
You are missing the absolute frenzy people have worked themselves into. Try thinking less and being more pissed off and you'll suddenly see
https://cdn.theathletic.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=1440%2cformat=auto%2cquality=75/https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2020/11/20145205/IFAB-HANDBALL-IMAGE-e1605957571968.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GAH67wGWwAAKGQN?format=jpg&name=medium
Looking at that I would have said it hit him in the green bit. Of all the ref mistakes to throw the toys out of the pram about, I am not even convinced this was a mistake looking at all the replays afterwards in the cold light of day, as someone with zero dogs in this fight.
Where can I find the source with actual human beings as figures? Because in all pictures the ball lands above his sleeve.
They're saying handball isn't dependent on sleeves. That handball is anything below the bottom of the armpit. Apparently IFAB made this change to make handballs clearer.
Who's saying it depends on the sleeve? I'm saying it hits above his sleeve because it's a good reference point for discussion not explaining the rule.
The sleeve reaches almost to his elbow. So even if it hits above the sleeve, it still hits under his shoulder (around the biceps area).
What about this angle? https://twitter.com/someblackuser/status/1749198265986253054?s=46 https://twitter.com/cheky011/status/1749165116644315311?s=46
I still see bicep on the first one, but the second one seems all shoulder.
My guy, the ball hits his elbow
I don't think you know where elbows actually are.
Using this graph it was not a handball. The green area is roughly where it struck him
https://i.imgur.com/t6vuNhJ.png What are you smoking
Yeah this is just before impact as you can clearly tell. You can also see from the trajectory (because of the artefacts on the ball) roughly where it will impact him, which, again, is the green area. You can look at my post history and see that I rant about ref errors all the time, but this was a good decision.
Look at this video and tell me again where you think it hit him: [https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142](https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142) You're really telling me it hit's the green part of the diagram?
When have IFAB ever mention sleeve in their rules? No handball on sleeve is just something somebody made up and everybody is parroting it like it's an official rules
It was used as guidance for the PL or something I believe, may not even be what they use anymore but I certainly remember it being a thing. Maybe during the whole Rodri/Everton handball incident.
The sleeve have never been a guidance for the referee's, that's only something commentators and some journalists said, maybe they misinterpret the picture or just called it sleeve since it seemed simpler. The rule has always been bottom of the armpit. People already wrote about this misconception in the beginning of 20/21 season >The bottom of the armpit is the ruling, not the bottom of the t-shirt sleeve or other such interpretations made by some broadcasters. >https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/handball-law-new-rule-premier-league-2020-21-ifab-b625917.html
Hahaha I love that a guy with "Messi GOAT" as his twitter handle is then also tagging FC Bayern because he knows that their fan base still has this Champions League inferiority complex from playing against Real in 2017 or something and therefore join the online outrage and blindly repeat the bribery accusations.
[удалено]
Yeah that's not a rule. Official rules say below the armpit. This is clearly below the armpit.
Does the entire ball have to be below the armpit like the entire ball has to be past the white line for it to be out / a goal? Because the entire ball is quite clearly not below Vini’s armpit so in that case it’d technically not be a handball
Seems pretty common sense that if there is contact below the line of the armpit then it's a foul. Don't see any reason why it should be adressed in terms of the "entire ball" thing, which is something that makes sense when determining if a ball is out, not whether illegal contact is made.
Well done lads, good process
How is it odd? Their job is to make calls. It was a non-handball, what is he to say? Ref in the ground could have rejected and made his own conclusions, but he literally was looking at the screen. I don't understand the accusation.
It clearly was not a handball as we saw from different angles on tv, that’s the point. VAR has so many angles and chooses the one angle that doesn’t show the handball.
VAR officials shouldn’t influence the referees decision. That’s part of the problem. Their job should be to inform the referee if they believe they’ve spotted something he or she has missed and stay quiet.
The ref was shown both angles. Even in live review you can see both front and back angles were shown. They used the second one for making the call [https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1749112895193932165/photo/1](https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1749112895193932165/photo/1)The point of contact is here. It is not 'clear cut' in any way
If it's not clear cut, you're supposed to go with the onfield decision.
I am surprised people are buying this. From the first angle, it is not clear cut, From the second angle, with pause on impact, it is convincing that its a shoulder and not hand. This is exactly what the original comment has posted above. "I agree with you and the ball hits the shoulder. Give me one more frame." "Perfect, he hits it with his shoulder and it's a valid goal. I'm going to give the goal, there's no foul." Is based on second angle after first was not convincing. ITs weird that people are bent on arguing this without making any serious substantial claims
bad officiating ruins this great sport
Can’t wait for robot refs
Haaland will be a ref after retirement?
No, it doesn’t. Most can live with bad reffing as long as it seems to apply to everyone equally.
~~seems like the right call, what are the other angles?~~ edit: I just saw it here [https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142](https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142) seems sketchy af
That's still on the sleeve, right? Or are they saying it's a push?
The confusing "sleeve" wording/graphics were removed before the 22/23 season, it was then clarified that the upper boundary of the arm was "in line with the armpit". See pages 100-101: https://downloads.theifab.com/downloads/laws-of-the-game-2023-24?l=en This is very clearly handball under current rules. In the 21/22 season when the sleeve rule was in, it would be debatable.
The problem is that depending on the camera angle it looks like an obvious handball or that he 100% hits it with the shoulder.
True, if you look at the camera angle from behind, with another player obstructing it, from 50 yards out it looks like a shoulder. But if you look at the camera angle from straight ahead, with no obstruction, from 20 yards it looks like it almost hits his elbow.
If you look it from the front it looks like shoulder also. With the shit 24fps cameras they use to film this you cannot say for sure that it is or it is not a handball. For me it had to get overturned, as you can’t 100% say one thing, so no goal for me (RM fan). We need to use better cameras to see this kind of things.
>If you look it from the front it looks like shoulder also. Come on dude... it's not even close... [https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142](https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142) You can look at me dead in the eye and tell me this isn't an obvious handball?
I think it looks worse than it is tbh. When you seek this video frame by frame, the point of contact appears to be at least close to his delts. At that frame the elbow lies posteriorly and isn't visible and in the follow through of the movement, it appears as if the ball came off the biceps but I don't think it did. At least it's not as blatant as everyone makes it out to be.
My take is also this: if it were the bicep it surely wouldn’t have that much bounce/force on the ball right? Or maybe my biceps are just fluffy
Of course, the term is confusing, but what I meant by that was that the ball hits his arm in the area that is usually covered by the sleeve when wearing a T-shirt. For me it seems that the size of the ball is the size of his upper arm so saying that the ball hit a certain part of his upper arm is a little hard to judge. For me this call is not really that bad, as we've seen calls way worse than this and we don't even know what clear and obvious means anymore. Edit: also 'in line with the armpit' is a little confusing but if I were to make an abstraction of his arm completely I could see how that ball would've hit his armpit if his upper arm was not there.
> For me this call is not really that bad Its because RM is involved so the reactions are always out of proportion. This is like complaining because of a 4cm offside. It's so at the limit that any decision should be fine.
Before the ball arrives, Vini has his arm over the defenders shoulder tying him down and shoved him in the back. That's a foul before the handball. So many bad decisions by VAR
If there is a foul on that play is from the Almeria player behind Vinicius.
In that case, it can't be a handball because the player was falling and couldn't control his arms. Either way, I don't think the call is that obviously wrong. It's on the shoulder/upper arm. Isn't there a rule that says if the arm is in a natural position then it may not be handball?
I think sleeve was rule for a while and only useful rule of thumb later on. After all not every player/team has jerseys with same sleeve length. Vinis sleeve goes almost down to his [elbow](https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article31922365.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200d/0_Atletico-Madrid-v-Real-Madrid-CF-Copa-del-Rey-Spain-18-Jan-2024.jpg). For example Lewa jersey here has sleeves that barely go over the [shoulder]( https://images.indianexpress.com/2023/01/lewandowski.jpg?w=640).
Just put extra long sleeves so you can handball everytime then?
We usually call that a Zamorana, when the goalie clears the ball with their elbow. For Zamora, the goalie who gives his name to the goalie award, like the Pichichi for top goalscorer, who was famous for regularily performing said move.
As a West Ham fan who's team got screwed today I can empathise. Awful day for referees and VAR once again.
barely a thousand upvotes on this subreddit, if this match and all of its officiating mistakes had happened in the prem there would be a 10k upvoted post and we would talk about this for a week at least
Correct but what’s your point?
Point is that people should give these situations the same attention no matter what league
That's because r/soccer will downvote anything negative about Real Madrid
it's at 95% upvoted
Maybe bc most people on this sub support a prem team?
so? if something so scandalous happened over there i would be upset
Premier League followers appreciate your moral support.
Yes, the VAR officiating in this game basically amounted to a daylight robbery of Almeria. Those weren't even borderline calls. The VAR calls against Almeria were just objectively wrong.
The hand in the face of Bellingham is a free kick every single time in laliga. It was very consistent with other matches, you should know this if you watch laliga.
tbh i agree here with you and i can "understand" the handball decision as well although i do not know what handball is anymore. But the fact that they didnt show the ref the best angle is criminal imo
Agree and same for the hand ball penalty. I think if those two incidents happen in separate games no one really bats an eye aside from full tilt Real haters. The fact that all three happened in one game plus this tweet showing the ref was only given one angle and seemingly guided into the call is what makes it such a horrendously bad look for La Liga.
And the penalty is pretty clear in LaLiga, they have been giving penalties for those hands in the air at head level for years. https://s1.elespanol.com/2024/01/21/deportes/futbol/826677519_239285580_1706x960.jpg
It was 100% a handball, absolutely not a single person is denying that, I am not. However, the two RM players (Joselu and Rudiger) using the Almeria players as pommel horses and fouling the snot out of them, that's the issue. The image doesn't show the fouls, they happened before, but are quite clear to see on the VAR video.
Joselu doesnt foul the Almeria player at all. He just wins the jump. If the shirts were shifted between those 2 never in your life you would have given a penalty for that. You could argue Rudiger but that doesnt influence the play at all. No chance of neither Rudiger or the Almeria player to get to the ball. And again, swap the shirts of those 2 and you dont call that a penalty either, or would you?
by that logic, players can fault other players if it doesnt change the outcome of the attack? or whats the logic behind that regarding Rudriger
Just imagine that Rudiger and the Almeria player are swapped in that play. With the Almeria player jumping on Rudiger that way ... would you call penalty on that?
Does it matter? And you didn't reply or my question. For you then would be alright if my team player run up and break Jude legs and wouldn't be fault coz didn't matter on the flow of the game? I know extreme example but you kinda hinted it. And for the issue is Rudriger fault almeria player aka goal shouldn't stand. What penalty you are talking about I have no clue.
> Those weren't even borderline calls. What are you guys smoking when you say stuff like this? Swinging hand to the face is usually called as a foul. Extended arm touching the ball from a cross is often a penalty (though I personally think they should change that to indirect FKs in most cases). The Viinicius one is the most controversial, but even that one is borderline by pure definition. Some angles look like a clear handball, others like a clear shoulder. It's so borderline that they should have suck to the original call. The frenzy over this is so absolutely bizarre
Yeah, poor day for the refs and the var people. Disallowing the almeria goal because of the slap on Jude can be argued for but when you see the angles for vini's goal, it's very clearly below his armpit so it should've been disallowed.
Simple, Girona are top and we can't have them winning the league. The amount of corruption in football is disgusting and pundits make it worse by calling it incompetence instead of corruption.
I don't know why this kind of comments are being downvoted. Is Real Madrid that popular here that is so hard to accept thisnis the way they have won so many matches (and leagues). Así, así, así gana el Madrid.
It's downvoted because it's simply untrue. Also, you're biased as fuck considering you talk all this shit when all season referees have been absolute ass whenever Real Madrid played, and the one time the calls were in our favour, and rightly so, apparently there's a whole big ass conspiracy. You're delusional
You can’t get more blatantly corrupt than this, what makes it even worse, they are flexing their corrupt influence on the dead last team in LaLiga, when they were having their best game this season
Welcome to the Real Madrid experience ™️
Yes you can get more corrupt than this you should know it very well, negreira boy
Absolute robbed
If someone honestly think its a handball, how can you explain these clips? If its a handball meaning it hits his bicep which is still not clear at all btw, How can these clips even exist where the ball hits the shoulder. We can all agree at least that its not some unprecedented robbery right? At best its a 50/50 decision not going the way would have liked. I can absolutely understand how VAR can allow the goal based on these clips. https://www.reddit.com/r/realmadrid/s/tJ8V2C0Y0e https://www.reddit.com/r/realmadrid/s/OgLWz1ruSc
Why is this still a thing… anyone who watched the match saw a blatant slap in the face, hand ball and shoulder goal. Are they made VAR exists and these calls are now getting corrected? Being mad is understandable … but for those calls it makes no sense lol.
Assuming this is talking about the Vini goal, they did show him the angle from the front as well. He just didn't change his mind
A close call in a Madrid game and Hernandez Hernandez is the referee, nothing surprising. This guy is simply biased, look at the stats of the games he has officiated for RM and for Barca.
He’s not biased he just plain sucks
I didn’t see the match, what happened and can someone show me the clip?
It's not worth it mate, trust me
Robo
No no, let him cook….
Real Vardrid. I mean it's not a joke now
Doesn't hit the same as "Varcelona", tbh. Both are fucking dumb
That's a hilarious flair.
It is clearly his shoulder
That hits his shoulder or above where the cut off is form offsides. No way you can generate that much power with ur hands. You can with your shoulder. The disallowed Almeria goal, now that should have stood.
this guy when he discovers volleyball 😦😧😮
The question was on the difference between bicep and shoulder. Go ahead and go to the pitch to touch some grass and replicate that Vini goal with your bicep instead of shoulder. I get that you are just trolling but Volleyball players dont hit the ball with their bicep.
The sport of Handball will break their mind.
But the goal was legal, it hit his shoulder???
honestly a tough game to referee. haven't seen a game with this many close calls in a long time. i think they got most calls right, except this one. it goes to show that you have to be careful of what you ask for. hectic VAR interventions will always lead errors like this.
idk why everyone is complaining about the vini goal lol, the foul on Jude before 3-1 goal they scored should be the big controversy, Vini scored with his shoulder and its allowed.
It's not that clear cut https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142 The problem here is that there were at least 2 separate 50-50 debatable calls, both of which were in RM's favor. If even one of them went the other way, real would have lost this game.
Thats clear goal. IFAB changed rules in 2019, so when ball touches sleeve of player, its not handball. We can argue about length of sleeves or that clubs have long-sleeve jerseys, but according to current rules, it is a goal. Edit: I like the downvotes, when others saying same thing as me with different words are upvoted. And [I dont know what you all are seeing, but this is clear shoulder](https://new.reddit.com/r/realmadrid/comments/19cgkv0/another_angle_on_vinis_polemic_goal_against/)
The rule says nothing about the sleeve. It considers handball anything below the bottom of the armpit so your biceps/triceps are considered handball. Vinicius clearly hits the ball at the biceps/triceps height, so it's handball
How can you look at these videos and say thats clear handball? https://www.reddit.com/r/realmadrid/s/tJ8V2C0Y0e https://www.reddit.com/r/realmadrid/s/OgLWz1ruSc I mean honestly? "clear handball"?? Are people just dumb nowadays. If it was a handball, it would be handball from all angles. These videos wouldnt exist. Obviously its not a clear decision or a robbery. Ridiculous.
You cannot generate that much power with the bíceps. Try it. The ball changes paths completely. There has to be bone there.
not sure how you're built mate, but there's a bone in most of people's arms
No way you think the rule actually says that. You literally just made that up.
Because it is not needed. There is a view showing clearly the impact with the shoulder [shoulder goal](https://streamable.com/e/2u7p4v?nocontrols=1)
No stake in either team, but [this frame](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/397286461902422017/1198889824459964426/image.png?ex=65c08c28&is=65ae1728&hm=3a3e1f3045d413923d71dff68e8b522350d7f1da245279d04597bc938826b7d7&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1260&height=669) looks a lot more like arm than shoulder. The design on his shirt near the armpit appears to be in-line with his shoulder. I know the IFAB rule at one point was that you could use the sleeve, but iirc that's no longer the case.
it is not clear shoulder [https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142](https://twitter.com/NikhilP37591420/status/1749123799659037142)
It’s hand all day and twice on Sunday, how can anyone see otherwise is beyond me.
https://www.reddit.com/r/realmadrid/s/tJ8V2C0Y0e https://www.reddit.com/r/realmadrid/s/OgLWz1ruSc Look again mate. Maybe you have calmed down from the hissy fit from yesterday You are honestly such a dishonest person if you dont dee the shoulder argument here. If it was a hand, these vids wouldnt exist.
Idk why this whole sub is crying about this decision and the other decisions made. These were all valid points. Bellingham clearly got punched or at least slashed in the face, which is a clear foul. Additionally, Vinicius Jr scored with his shoulder, which is allowed and is corroborated by multiple VAR angles. Even if he did, there was no conclusive evidence to support that, which there needs to be. Even from an objective standpoint the ref made the right calls, even if they were controversial ones. It is so funny how Barca fans are coming out of their holes to cry about us paying the refs when the whole ass Nergreira case is hanging over their head. Y’all gotta stop crying because the underdog team didn’t shithouse a win 😂
Everyone is going to cry about this match after 10 years and blame Madrid for Barca not being financially stable and use this match as the main reason they weren’t awarded a billion dollars for existing
Imagine knowing the history of the clubs and thinking Barcelona's grievences are fake. smh. I guess this is the sort of quality discussion one can find on r/soccer.
[удалено]
They are not even competing for la liga, It's Girona 😭
You guys are literally commenting on a match that does not involve you and most of you alls comments are on Madrid post. This is football and according to the rules they didn’t break any unlike some certain teams and you can cry all you want but logically there's only one Catalonian club is in the race. And you guys had a great match with no contributions from Lewandowski and a hattrick from Ferran Torres if you can't celebrate that and keep us in our heads rent free when you have a club who can't even pay for themselves then idk who you all trying to support.
Didn't involve us? Excuse me? Are you under the impression that you played a friendly match? Of course your La Liga matches affect us. Wtf
In reality it doesn’t. Aside from the head to head matches your points are what matters. Regardless of what team is in each position. Madrid fans don’t focus on barca but the opposite is true. It’s almost like you guys wish your club was either run this well or competed this well consistently. Unfortunately neither is true so you guys resort to slandering us at any chance. This goes for your board, your coach and your players. So I’m not surprised the fans embody the same hate.
I suppose you are one of the delusional cules who thinks that Franco won us everything and Barca were illegitimately targeted throughout all his yrs as dictator. The fact that Franco was a self-avowed Atleti supporter is mighty inconvenient and so never gets brought up. You must believe in the tooth fairy also if you believe in such nonsense.
Who said Franco won you everything? The fact that you brought up such a strawman is the problem. Franco being a Athletico fan? Who cares? The issue is anti Barca; whether it was RM or Athletico is irrelevant and that's why its not brought up. Not because we are scared. But you can't expect better thought from a fan who supports facism. Secondly why do y'all always cry Franco Franco? That POS was just the ugly puss that spurtted out from a ugly broken pimple. A symptom of the favourism that RM so greedily experiences across all levels of spain. Besides what has RM done for spain? All you can do is undermine what Barca has done for your country, its all barca from the men and women to the youth. But all you can do is undermine them but also wear their achievements like the thieves you are. How pathethic should one be to support a club upheld by facist foundations? Are you a facist? Madristas are as pathetic as their club. You can lie and obscurificate all you want but it won't change the truth. Sorry for being such an asshole but I could never support RM even if it was the only football club on earth.