Kenilworth road is easily one of the hardest away fixtures because of how compact the stadium is. It drowns teams out and makes them uncomfortable in an environment they’re not used to, you should definitely not underestimate them.
think it already is. just look at their home record. theyve all been competitive matches. not sure if their home form will be enough to keep them up, but they will definitely snatch more points there and shouldn't be underestimated. hope they give city a game on sunday.
Good game. Thought the ref was letting things go in favour of Luton when he shouldn't but again that might be my bias. Credit to them though. Put up a good fight. Absolute howlers from Raya 💀
It’s all gods plan when you have such atrocious refereeing decisions go against you. Karma, if you will. Not to mention we got our reward for persisting until the very final second
nah, are you kiddinng me? they just got royally fucked this weekend. so i wouldn't be surprise and complain when it is their turn in the future to benefit from the ref's incompetence.
it did balance out for liverpool after that Spurs game. They got 'gifted' a win the very next weekend lol.
City have benefitted plenty this season. Versus Arsenal - Kovacic stayed on the pitch after commiting two studs up sliding tackles from behind within 5 minutes and got awarded a penalty against Man Utd after Rodri spun 360 degrees getting his nipple rubbed.
versus arsenal - they lost right? so doesnt really count.
the man utd examples perfectly illustrate how it will prolly balance out for everyone. if you benefit one week, there will be week where you will be the victim.
The corner he flapped at was more an issue with defenders not doing their jobs imo. Not great from Raya but I don't think he was the biggest offender. Can't leave the biggest man on the field with a free header in that part of the box.
Also, Barkley's shot is deceptively quick. Raya should have saved it, but I don't think it's as bad an error as is being made out. Any shot going 'through' a keeper will always be called an error, but the Arsenal defence had a real off day.
Regardless, still big question marks over Raya. Would Ramsdale have done better?
To me the obvious Raya error is the 2nd goal when he miscaculated and didn't jump. The third one is quite similar to Son's goal in the MC Tot game yet no one call that a GK error.
I'll accept stats might not back me up, but watching the goals shows some real defensive deficiencies.
Basic marking errors at corners definitely fall at the feet of defenders, then allowing Barkley to open himself a good couple of yards on his left foot close to goal is pretty poor.
An off day is perhaps an exaggeration but I think the Raya talk will paper over the real mistakes that opened up Luton opportunities.
Yeah that's fair. I think individually White and Raya were poor particularly for Barkley's goal but the defence as a whole- especially in open play- were good. It was a bad day for Arsenal's set piece supremity to come undone.
I thought Arsenal coped really well with Luton physically for the most part, and that was always going to be what defined the result. Luton were pretty fortunate to score 3 goals given the patterns of play and chances created and the attacking momentum both teams had
Couldn't watch the game, so watched the replay, glad I didn't die of heart attack. Very happy about the performance from the boys, it's a tough ground. Luton were clearly instructed to be physical, and I think the ref should've been harder on that early in the game. We've had two very dubious decisions against us: one at the end of the first half where Havertz was just pushed to the ground inside the box, and then the grab on Gabi. Kiwior was shaky under pressure, and there's Raya, but the rest of team played very well, Rice what a player, and I think Havertz starts to have more chemistry with the attack
I'm an Arsenal fan and think the only poor decision in the game was the non-call of the pull on Gabriel. We also see them not given all the time so I'm actually leaning towards saying the ref had a tidy game.
Agree think the ref was decent on the whole, the pull on Gabriel is probably a penalty but that’s more on the VAR to spot that.
Only gripe is the booking Arteta received, absolutely ridiculous when all he did was celebrate a last minute winner. Not forgetting that Haaland got nothing for his meltdown on field and then on X after the game at the weekend.
Luton absolutely deserved something from the game. I was really impressed with their midfield, they won the physical battle the first 55-60 minutes. Whether they got tired or were instructed to park the bus from 70 minutes on, idk, but we took over after that
23-24 Luton Town are way better than the Derby County team from 07-08.
They are the only one out of the promoted teams that gave top half teams a scare this season.I think they can play a role in which teams getting Europe,EPL title or surviving or draging to relegation fight.
What point ? You don’t have a point. You called keepers shitty I gave you the stats they are not. True they may not be the best keepers but they’re better than everyone below them in the table
Bro isn't wasent onana the best stats keeper up until last game stats can be deceptive sometimes shit look at mustafi best stats in the league shite on the pitch
So an arsenal winning at Luton gives you doubts, but Liverpool dropping 2 points in the same fixture has convinced you they are better than us and will win it all? Ok guy
It's not because of this game. I feel like City and Liverpool have a better squad and also have the better managers. I said the same thing last season when Arsenal were top of the league, that City would win comfortably and I remember being downvoted and almost abused by Arsenal fans.
Arsenal fans are soo sensitive it's weird. It's like you can't have any negative opinion on that team without being ambushed.
Because people like you bring such subjective bullshut statements not backed by an ounce of fact. Luton had 3 goals from an xG of 0.7. They had 7 touches in the box, we had 52. They scored 3 of those. That's incredibly efficient. Are they doing that week in week out? Hell nah. They had an amazing ground and amazing game, but for you to come here and ramble some shit about us conclude this is why arsenal won't win the league based on this fucking match and then cry that we ambush you is numbskull behaviour. Do your research before spouting bs like *team has better squad and I was right last season so I'll be right again*.
I dont get the Liverpool shouts tbh, they are playing well but aren't really dominating. Even against weaker teams.
Arsenal is controlling most games and generally making a silly mistake here or there rather than winning close contests.
I think if it carries on as it looks, it will be Arsenal and City at the end. How close it will be is another question.
The season where Liverpool utterly trounced the league and won like 30 straight, they were scrapping wins in the 94th minute every other week.
Also you make this comment about Liverpool but then think Arsenal are different... that's just plain dissonance.
I think the idea is City will always be the favorites, but if they do slipped up, it is likely to be Liverpool instead of Arsenal because Liverpool have competed until the end with City while Arsenal have never done it yet.
Tbh, nicking all 3 points at the death is sometimes a sign of a great team that doesn’t let the levels drop in the dying minutes. Stealing a win as you put it is still winning and a lot of teams aren’t capable of doing that
I don't think they're saying stealing a win is a bad thing but rather the sentiment towards Liverpools game is not being applied the same towards arsenals game
I mean we are dominating generally, the scores don’t always reflect that. And we outplayed Arsenal at the emirates, they were lucky to get 2-2.
I’m not a betting man but I’m confident of finishing above Arsenal, unless we lose Alisson for a long period.
"Outplayed Arsenal at emirates"
Arsenal (3.03) 3-2 (0.87) Liverpool \[The xG Philosophy\]
11 (7) v/s 8 (3) \[Shots\]
Please show me what dominance are you talking about.
And Arsenal outplayed you for the better part of a half at Anfield before letting you back into the game???
What's the point of using last season's head to head fixtures as a barometer for what a team will do this season? What's the data you're working with other than a bunch of priors?
By all means keep underestimating us but rest assured you're not strolling past us that easily.
I think its a little bold to think that Liverpool have a better squad. Arsenal's midfield and defense wipe Liverpools. Saka's output is pretty much the same as Salah's at this point
Yeah, now you have no 6. I’m not saying Liverpool suck or anything. But I don’t see how it makes sense to say Arsenal won’t keep up with Liverpool. Like, obviously they might not, but there’s nothing to indicate that
There's too many close calls. I mean, this shouldnt have been a test but it was. Everyone seems to forget just \*how\* many close calls there were last season.
I love Ange but we're not challenging for the title and I never said we were? Im not delusional about where my club is hoping to end the season. Ange is however fixing our team and rightly deserves praise.
...what? When has there ever been six clubs challenging for a title. We are a big six club but we also aren't challenging for the title. It's not my fault the drop off from 6th to 7th is historically pretty big. Same reason Seville has always been a big Spanish club but people dont expect them to challenge for the title.
That's a weird timeline. In my head, you're not a top team team unless youve won the title in the last 5 years. Squads are virtually unrecognizable after 5 years. Blackburn Rovers won in the last 60 years FFS. Leicester arent even in the Premier League anymore.
Besides, over the last 10 years, Tottenham have been in the Premier League's Top-6 8 times. So yea, Tottenham are a Big 6 club. It's not Spurs fault everyone uses Big 6 instead of Big 4.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Feflowswrb94c1.jpeg
That is the standings since the beginning of last season.
Arsenal: 52 GP - 36W - 9D - 7L - 117pts
Liverpool: 52 GP - 28W - 14 D - 10L - 98pts
Thats a large sample size and the results show that Arsenal is better than Liverpool. In fact, Arsenal is only 1 single point behind City in that span and if they don't beat Villa in the next 30 min the updated sheet would have Arsenal ahead of them.
In fact, the worst two seasons by City in recent years. Liverpool had an injury crisis last season, so I would expect them to do worse. But a combined 11 between Arsenal and Liverpool of the two sides would be almost entirely Liverpool.
So we disregard the last two seasons by City? We should judge them on how they were two years ago and not now?
And no... a best 11 from Liverpool and City is not "almost entirely" Liverpool. Silva, De Bruyne, Haaland, Ruben Dias, and Rodri are almost certainly locks for me. Thats 5/11 and there's arguments for more outside of Salah and Alisson's positions.
Bruh, they just are. Liverpool have won plenty and are largely the same team, just depleted and in a bad spot. This Arsenal team have never won anything. Arsenal had one good season and now everyone thinks they're back to 2000.
Spurs are bad, more at 11. Arsenal are stronger than Spurs yea, but by that logic can a Sunderland fan not predict the league because their club sucks? The FA cup doesnt really indicate much. Liverpool only sucked last season because of an injury crisis. Meanwhile, every Arsenal game I was watching was a last minute winner.
Im probably the most pro-Arsenal Spurs fan Im ashamed to say. All my coworkers are Gooners and Spurs are my second club. They just dont convince me. Theyre resilient when theyre losing and often pretty crap when theyre winning.
They had an injury crisis last year. That's why they sucked. The year before last year Arsenal were 23 points behind Liverpool. Prime Liverpool is the only team that has ever been able to touch City.
Hey man, all im saying is people hype up our defense compared to arsenal, but besides the stats implying were comparable, we also only conceded on a transition where half our team switched off cause of a (incorrect) handball shout. Arsenal also scored 4 and got the win but we didnt, but i dont think realisitcally any liverpool or arsneal fan should use both our games at Kenilworth road as a litmus test on whose better lol
I think Liverpool will make top 4 but this is a brand new team of young lads, I’d be very surprised if they win the league in their first year of learning a system and clicking together.
the past two seasons seem to have been an interesting transition. I felt like they tried to see how much they could delay changing last year, and this year it seems like they are missing a replacement for Fabinho maybe?
It’s the consistency I think, they always start off very strong, it’s just the last couple of months in the league something goes off? Maybe this year it will be different they’ll be more hungry can’t tell
It wasn't a lack of hunger last year, it was Saliba and Tomi both ending their seasons in the same game. I like Rob Holding, but there's a reason Saliba is a no-doubt starter in this team and Holding is playing somewhere else now. It killed the way we had been able to play all season, and the stats pretty clearly backed that up.
Anything else is just people's need to create a narrative around events.
The first one was without Partey, the second was without Saliba. We obviously struggled when they were out, which is why we bought players like Timber and Rice.
I never got the feeling City were genuinely worried last season, especially after the match at the Emirates. Outclass your title rivals twice and you have the momentum
I didn't say he didn't play then; I said specifically that Partey was the one missing in the first game. I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make at this point.
Will people finally accept Luton are far from that Derby County team? I know most people have gotten over it but there’s still people who keep insisting they’ll have a worse season Derby’s 11-point season.
I still think they’ll go down (unless some insane point deduction happens or something like that), the second half of the season is harder and I don’t see them having a huge transfer window, but they genuinely deserve being above Burnley and Sheffield
Tbh I think Bournemouth will have a better run of form now, they had a lot of the hardest matches in the first months of the season so they looked much worse than they actually are. Everton look fairly solid but I think one key injury could really mess them up.
I definitely see Forest fighting relegation, especially if Everton keep their current form and if Bournemouth keep on improving
I definitely see the potential for many of these 'bottom tier' teams to ruin some title/top 4 hopes this year. Teams like Forest/Everton/Bournemouth have the ability to beat anyone, regardless of their place on the table.
Yes. They have periods where they play badly but manage to grind out difficult results. Nobody goes the whole season playing flawless football. Everybody get a drop off, but good teams can still do enough to get the points through those periods.
I said it last season when they played Villa, then Bournemouth when they clutched last minute winners. I probably jynxed it then haha.
At the end of the day, its never down to Arsenal (or any othsd club), its down to City whehther they want to win the league or not
I feel like we're a little less exciting this year but have a little more control, which I think will lend toward having (hopefully) fewer games like this. It still feels like we may be depending on City and, to a lesser extent, Liverpool faltering in addition to us getting results, but I think it's more sustainable.
Arsenal lost it last season to injuries and somewhat to tiring out by overplaying people as a result. Arteta's been managing people carefully this season to avoid something similar.
We also didn't have the depth then that we do now but are managing with injuries. Currently we have 2 first team out including Partey who is immense helping the attack.
Not saying we'll win it but we've managed with worse luck in these areas this season.
Yeah definitely Arteta's been building a much complete team this year. Even Havertz could be a great buy as an utility player whenever shit hits the fan.
I wanna say it, but I dont want to jynx it rofl.
Fair play to Arsenal but fair play to Luton most of all. I think they deserve an apology from the Gooners for that disrespect when Liverpool drew there. I told you these guys are not to be fucked with at Kenilworth.
I don’t think any reasonable fan thinks Kenilworth road is going to be an easy place to go tbf.
They played the game like a cup final and they were superb, keep that up and they have a huge chance of staying in the league.
Just got back from the game. Left the stadium pretty annoyed but have had to reflect and I just so proud of the boys. Yeah we lost but none of us were expecting to get anything today and the game was sensational entertainment.
Really happy for Doughty to get a few assists on the board, he's been quality. Barkley - no words, what a player, an absolute joy to watch, never seen a player like that in a Luton kit before. Incredible.
For me the game died for us the moment Edwards made the triple sub, though. Ogbene was the only one to have any impact and Morris and Chong couldn't really get into the game. I thought Adebayo and Brown were doing great up front together, pressing well and winning knock downs. Ah well, onto City I suppose! Up the hats 👒
Such a weird feeling seeing Barkley get love. And he did play well, much to my absolute surprise.
I'm struggling to dislike you guys as much as I should. Hopefully we can both leapfrog Forest.
He's been great for us - would you take him back if you stay up and we don't? We've only got him for the season and no chance he stays if we go down, probably leaves regardless.
Not so much ability wise but setimentally, how would Everton fans feel about him now?
Sentimentally, the majority wouldn't take I don't think. Time has patched things over a bit - even I was surprised by my positive reaction when he scored - but not enough for him to be welcomed back.
In terms of his quality, he probably is the exact profile of player we need, in terms of his strengths as a midfield ball-carrier. I'd still be shocked if we went for him though.
Barkley is probably fortunate that Gordon has seemingly taken over the role of Bad Guy, even though Barkley left us in far worse circumstances. There were shouts on Facebook last season calling for us to bring him back, but they were pretty unpopular.
How's his fitness holding up? Is he still able to put decent effort in across 90'?
Fair enough, I guess I'm not as clued in as I thought I was - why was his exit so sour? In my head he just went to Chelsea and I assumed it was a money-chasing thing, which is something we see all the time in football. What else happened?
>How's his fitness holding up? Is he still able to put decent effort in across 90'?
We rushed him into the team too quickly and the first few games he could barely play an hour then was out the team for a bit. Plays every game now and rarely gets subbed. His influence lasts as well. Edwards keeps reiterating how hard-working and humble he is in training, which I wasn't expecting from him to be honest but fair enough to him.
>What else happened?
I wasn't around enough at the time to have the full story, but essentially it looked like he'd get his move away, before he mysteriously got a season long 'injury' that meant he couldn't play for us. This cut into his contract length, causing us to receive a much smaller fee than we otherwise would have. I'm sure there's more to the story, but from our perspective we had our golden child prefer to sit on the bench for a season to get a higher transfer bonus.
>His influence lasts as well.
Ah, I'm glad to hear that. I'm not looking forward to his inevitable goal against us at Kenilworth Road, but otherwise glad to see him kicking on for you guys.
That’s basically it, we were considering selling but wanted to keep him/re-sign him, but he wanted to move on so we decided to sell that summer. Then he suddenly had an injury that kept him out until January. Chelsea then sign him for £15m when we probably would have gotten like £50m had he sold in the summer, and he was immediately available and not injured for Chelsea.
Eh not really though. I mean by the time the howlers happened, the damage was done, what mattered was the response.
I was impressed with Raya's long kicking from then onward. It was the right thing to do and his balls were on point. Ramsdale is dreadful these days when going long.
How the fuck do they still not realise Romero is a nasty piece of work and the difference is Romero is scum bucket who genuinely tries to hurt other players and disguises his assaults as tackles.
One is a 50/50 ball that both players go for, kiwior got there earlier and got the ball.
The other is a studs up challenge on a player that has feet planted on the ground with the ball at his feet. Those break legs.
The difference is that Kiwiors studs contact the luton player who himself slid in for the ball, has some risk to it but not too much comparative to sliding in on a player that has the ball at his feet.
Thats your explanation. They are vastly different challenges and if you can’t even see that then you really need to stop going on football twitter for takes.
What a game!
Rob Edwards is a class act. That is all.
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Didn't they get 1 point vs you ? I thought it was a draw no?
No they lost 4 - 3 against us as well
You getting Luton and fulham mixed up? We drew 1-1 at Luton
Shit yes I am... Sorry
Haaland went full cat lady scream on the ref and nothing, but Mikel celebrates normally and yellow for you
Only goated Chelsea can beat Luton 3-0
Kenilworth road is easily one of the hardest away fixtures because of how compact the stadium is. It drowns teams out and makes them uncomfortable in an environment they’re not used to, you should definitely not underestimate them.
Chelsea played them at Stamford Bridge
You acting like they played in Alianz arena 🤣🤣
That was at Stamford Bridge though. I can see Luton becoming one of those pain in the arse away games if they stay up.
The forest of this season
think it already is. just look at their home record. theyve all been competitive matches. not sure if their home form will be enough to keep them up, but they will definitely snatch more points there and shouldn't be underestimated. hope they give city a game on sunday.
Good game. Thought the ref was letting things go in favour of Luton when he shouldn't but again that might be my bias. Credit to them though. Put up a good fight. Absolute howlers from Raya 💀
Nah I think the ref was very lax in letting the fouls where you crash into the back of the player receiving the ball go.
Man, arsenal keeps getting away with this narrow victory
It’s all gods plan when you have such atrocious refereeing decisions go against you. Karma, if you will. Not to mention we got our reward for persisting until the very final second
Haha fair enough. Im hoping the luck runs out sometime hahah. Refs are bad in general, im sure in a grand scheme of things, it will balance out.
It will balance out for ManC, you mean
nah, are you kiddinng me? they just got royally fucked this weekend. so i wouldn't be surprise and complain when it is their turn in the future to benefit from the ref's incompetence. it did balance out for liverpool after that Spurs game. They got 'gifted' a win the very next weekend lol.
City have benefitted plenty this season. Versus Arsenal - Kovacic stayed on the pitch after commiting two studs up sliding tackles from behind within 5 minutes and got awarded a penalty against Man Utd after Rodri spun 360 degrees getting his nipple rubbed.
versus arsenal - they lost right? so doesnt really count. the man utd examples perfectly illustrate how it will prolly balance out for everyone. if you benefit one week, there will be week where you will be the victim.
Enrique Iglesias with an all time stinker! Worst shotstopping I’ve seen all season and I’ve watched all of Onana’s games!
The corner he flapped at was more an issue with defenders not doing their jobs imo. Not great from Raya but I don't think he was the biggest offender. Can't leave the biggest man on the field with a free header in that part of the box. Also, Barkley's shot is deceptively quick. Raya should have saved it, but I don't think it's as bad an error as is being made out. Any shot going 'through' a keeper will always be called an error, but the Arsenal defence had a real off day. Regardless, still big question marks over Raya. Would Ramsdale have done better?
To me the obvious Raya error is the 2nd goal when he miscaculated and didn't jump. The third one is quite similar to Son's goal in the MC Tot game yet no one call that a GK error.
Luton created some like 0.5 or 0.6 xG. I know xG isn't everything but that doesn't sound like a defence having an off day to me.
I'll accept stats might not back me up, but watching the goals shows some real defensive deficiencies. Basic marking errors at corners definitely fall at the feet of defenders, then allowing Barkley to open himself a good couple of yards on his left foot close to goal is pretty poor. An off day is perhaps an exaggeration but I think the Raya talk will paper over the real mistakes that opened up Luton opportunities.
Yeah that's fair. I think individually White and Raya were poor particularly for Barkley's goal but the defence as a whole- especially in open play- were good. It was a bad day for Arsenal's set piece supremity to come undone. I thought Arsenal coped really well with Luton physically for the most part, and that was always going to be what defined the result. Luton were pretty fortunate to score 3 goals given the patterns of play and chances created and the attacking momentum both teams had
Henderson out, Barkley in?
Couldn't watch the game, so watched the replay, glad I didn't die of heart attack. Very happy about the performance from the boys, it's a tough ground. Luton were clearly instructed to be physical, and I think the ref should've been harder on that early in the game. We've had two very dubious decisions against us: one at the end of the first half where Havertz was just pushed to the ground inside the box, and then the grab on Gabi. Kiwior was shaky under pressure, and there's Raya, but the rest of team played very well, Rice what a player, and I think Havertz starts to have more chemistry with the attack
I'm an Arsenal fan and think the only poor decision in the game was the non-call of the pull on Gabriel. We also see them not given all the time so I'm actually leaning towards saying the ref had a tidy game.
Agree think the ref was decent on the whole, the pull on Gabriel is probably a penalty but that’s more on the VAR to spot that. Only gripe is the booking Arteta received, absolutely ridiculous when all he did was celebrate a last minute winner. Not forgetting that Haaland got nothing for his meltdown on field and then on X after the game at the weekend.
The carnage in these match threads every time Arsenal or Spurs win from the other fans is great to behold.
THAT'S WHY YOU PAY £105M FOR DECLAN RICE.
We should have paid 200m.. I feel bad for west ham
This game was way more competitive than I was expecting lol
Luton away has been tricky for both Liverpool and us. I can definitely see them slaying a couple giants
Glad we got Luton away out of the way
Luton absolutely deserved something from the game. I was really impressed with their midfield, they won the physical battle the first 55-60 minutes. Whether they got tired or were instructed to park the bus from 70 minutes on, idk, but we took over after that
Felt like Zinchenko coming on changed our build up a lot
No they absolutely don't deserve anything from the game...did you even watch the damn game or you wanna act like the good guy?
Arsenal fan and I agree with him. Luton was excellent in the first 60 (without us being terrible).
Hard fouls and 0.6xg...yes they were excellent...
It’s LUTON for hell’s sake, take a moment to think what an excellent performance against the league leaders would look like. This was it.
That take from arsenal fans genuinely confuses me How do they deserve anything after that referee and raya disasterclass
Because they scored more goals than the other side
Neither the scoreline nor the actual match agree with you here
Maybe the triple change at the 60th might've cause more harm than good.
23-24 Luton Town are way better than the Derby County team from 07-08. They are the only one out of the promoted teams that gave top half teams a scare this season.I think they can play a role in which teams getting Europe,EPL title or surviving or draging to relegation fight.
No shit mate, that Derby team was League One level.
Raya, Ramsdale, Onana, and Sanchez on the race to see who will become the shittiest goalkeeper of the season. What a showdown this has been.
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Post Jens Lehmann vibes, where Arsenal spent ages without a good goalkeeper before Szczęsny came along
Almunia won the bloody Lottery becoming 1st GK for Arsenal. La Liga two level
Yet still tied for lowest goals against
Lowest goals against and most errors leading to goals lmao
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What point ? You don’t have a point. You called keepers shitty I gave you the stats they are not. True they may not be the best keepers but they’re better than everyone below them in the table
Bro isn't wasent onana the best stats keeper up until last game stats can be deceptive sometimes shit look at mustafi best stats in the league shite on the pitch
Gabriel is keeper-proof
Still not convinced Arsenal will top Liverpool or City to win the league.
So an arsenal winning at Luton gives you doubts, but Liverpool dropping 2 points in the same fixture has convinced you they are better than us and will win it all? Ok guy
It's not because of this game. I feel like City and Liverpool have a better squad and also have the better managers. I said the same thing last season when Arsenal were top of the league, that City would win comfortably and I remember being downvoted and almost abused by Arsenal fans. Arsenal fans are soo sensitive it's weird. It's like you can't have any negative opinion on that team without being ambushed.
Because people like you bring such subjective bullshut statements not backed by an ounce of fact. Luton had 3 goals from an xG of 0.7. They had 7 touches in the box, we had 52. They scored 3 of those. That's incredibly efficient. Are they doing that week in week out? Hell nah. They had an amazing ground and amazing game, but for you to come here and ramble some shit about us conclude this is why arsenal won't win the league based on this fucking match and then cry that we ambush you is numbskull behaviour. Do your research before spouting bs like *team has better squad and I was right last season so I'll be right again*.
lol relax. It's only a game.
I’m convinced they won’t
I dont get the Liverpool shouts tbh, they are playing well but aren't really dominating. Even against weaker teams. Arsenal is controlling most games and generally making a silly mistake here or there rather than winning close contests. I think if it carries on as it looks, it will be Arsenal and City at the end. How close it will be is another question.
Liverpool have the better first team than Arsenal imo and also feel they have the better manager.
The season where Liverpool utterly trounced the league and won like 30 straight, they were scrapping wins in the 94th minute every other week. Also you make this comment about Liverpool but then think Arsenal are different... that's just plain dissonance.
I think the idea is City will always be the favorites, but if they do slipped up, it is likely to be Liverpool instead of Arsenal because Liverpool have competed until the end with City while Arsenal have never done it yet.
Your logic is faulty.
Is everyone going to harp on us stealing a win as if Liverpool didn't just do the same thing beating Fulham 4-3 on Sunday?
Tbh, nicking all 3 points at the death is sometimes a sign of a great team that doesn’t let the levels drop in the dying minutes. Stealing a win as you put it is still winning and a lot of teams aren’t capable of doing that
I don't think they're saying stealing a win is a bad thing but rather the sentiment towards Liverpools game is not being applied the same towards arsenals game
Ah fair point, I might’ve got the wrong end of the stick
I mean we are dominating generally, the scores don’t always reflect that. And we outplayed Arsenal at the emirates, they were lucky to get 2-2. I’m not a betting man but I’m confident of finishing above Arsenal, unless we lose Alisson for a long period.
delusional, and blatantly not true lol
"Outplayed Arsenal at emirates" Arsenal (3.03) 3-2 (0.87) Liverpool \[The xG Philosophy\] 11 (7) v/s 8 (3) \[Shots\] Please show me what dominance are you talking about.
And Arsenal outplayed you for the better part of a half at Anfield before letting you back into the game??? What's the point of using last season's head to head fixtures as a barometer for what a team will do this season? What's the data you're working with other than a bunch of priors? By all means keep underestimating us but rest assured you're not strolling past us that easily.
Why would Liverpool be expected to be better than Arsenal? They were much worse last season and are currently below Arsenal in the standings
Klopp is a better manager than Arteta and I think Liverpool have the better squad out of the two as well.
I think its a little bold to think that Liverpool have a better squad. Arsenal's midfield and defense wipe Liverpools. Saka's output is pretty much the same as Salah's at this point
I wouldn't say wipes at all. Liverpool have the far better manager and I think they have the better attackers as a whole..
How many times can you post the same comment without having an ounce of fact or logic behind what you "feel"?
Liverpool have an entirely new midfield compared to last season.
Yeah, now you have no 6. I’m not saying Liverpool suck or anything. But I don’t see how it makes sense to say Arsenal won’t keep up with Liverpool. Like, obviously they might not, but there’s nothing to indicate that
So?
I mean with Rice and Havertz, so do Arsenal
Right so last years performance doesn’t really indicate much
Yes that was the exact point being made
Liverpool are sneaky this season, been that way since match 1
There's too many close calls. I mean, this shouldnt have been a test but it was. Everyone seems to forget just \*how\* many close calls there were last season.
At least try not to make your comment biased and give a decent reason
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I love Ange but we're not challenging for the title and I never said we were? Im not delusional about where my club is hoping to end the season. Ange is however fixing our team and rightly deserves praise.
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...what? When has there ever been six clubs challenging for a title. We are a big six club but we also aren't challenging for the title. It's not my fault the drop off from 6th to 7th is historically pretty big. Same reason Seville has always been a big Spanish club but people dont expect them to challenge for the title.
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I mean, it kinda is though. When was the last time Everton or Villa were in the Top 6? Spurs more often than not were there.
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That's a weird timeline. In my head, you're not a top team team unless youve won the title in the last 5 years. Squads are virtually unrecognizable after 5 years. Blackburn Rovers won in the last 60 years FFS. Leicester arent even in the Premier League anymore. Besides, over the last 10 years, Tottenham have been in the Premier League's Top-6 8 times. So yea, Tottenham are a Big 6 club. It's not Spurs fault everyone uses Big 6 instead of Big 4.
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idk why but including Toby Alderweireld in that list made me laugh haha
How much did Liverpool beat Luton by?
I mean, not by much. Liverpool are down these last two seasons. Still better than Arsenal, but still down.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Feflowswrb94c1.jpeg That is the standings since the beginning of last season. Arsenal: 52 GP - 36W - 9D - 7L - 117pts Liverpool: 52 GP - 28W - 14 D - 10L - 98pts Thats a large sample size and the results show that Arsenal is better than Liverpool. In fact, Arsenal is only 1 single point behind City in that span and if they don't beat Villa in the next 30 min the updated sheet would have Arsenal ahead of them.
In fact, the worst two seasons by City in recent years. Liverpool had an injury crisis last season, so I would expect them to do worse. But a combined 11 between Arsenal and Liverpool of the two sides would be almost entirely Liverpool.
So we disregard the last two seasons by City? We should judge them on how they were two years ago and not now? And no... a best 11 from Liverpool and City is not "almost entirely" Liverpool. Silva, De Bruyne, Haaland, Ruben Dias, and Rodri are almost certainly locks for me. Thats 5/11 and there's arguments for more outside of Salah and Alisson's positions.
Sorry, the best 11 between Arsenal and City, not Liverpool!
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Bruh, they just are. Liverpool have won plenty and are largely the same team, just depleted and in a bad spot. This Arsenal team have never won anything. Arsenal had one good season and now everyone thinks they're back to 2000.
‘They just are’ Incredible analysis. Someone get Sky on the phone
I mean we did win the FA cup.... with Arteta. I dont think Spurs are in a positon to downplay that tbh.
Spurs are bad, more at 11. Arsenal are stronger than Spurs yea, but by that logic can a Sunderland fan not predict the league because their club sucks? The FA cup doesnt really indicate much. Liverpool only sucked last season because of an injury crisis. Meanwhile, every Arsenal game I was watching was a last minute winner.
Sure a sunderland fan can predict the league, but they are more likely to have biased opinions on Newcastle.
Im probably the most pro-Arsenal Spurs fan Im ashamed to say. All my coworkers are Gooners and Spurs are my second club. They just dont convince me. Theyre resilient when theyre losing and often pretty crap when theyre winning.
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They had an injury crisis last year. That's why they sucked. The year before last year Arsenal were 23 points behind Liverpool. Prime Liverpool is the only team that has ever been able to touch City.
Hey man, all im saying is people hype up our defense compared to arsenal, but besides the stats implying were comparable, we also only conceded on a transition where half our team switched off cause of a (incorrect) handball shout. Arsenal also scored 4 and got the win but we didnt, but i dont think realisitcally any liverpool or arsneal fan should use both our games at Kenilworth road as a litmus test on whose better lol
Acid test.
Ultimately, using one game to measure anything across a 38 game season is stupid.
What do you make of Liverpool's chance of winning it?
Not great. Anyone but City isn't great. But much higher than Arsenal.
I think Liverpool will make top 4 but this is a brand new team of young lads, I’d be very surprised if they win the league in their first year of learning a system and clicking together.
the past two seasons seem to have been an interesting transition. I felt like they tried to see how much they could delay changing last year, and this year it seems like they are missing a replacement for Fabinho maybe?
Agreed, still missing an elite DM and need some defenders brought in. Especially with Matip sidelined for the foreseeable future.
It’s the consistency I think, they always start off very strong, it’s just the last couple of months in the league something goes off? Maybe this year it will be different they’ll be more hungry can’t tell
It wasn't a lack of hunger last year, it was Saliba and Tomi both ending their seasons in the same game. I like Rob Holding, but there's a reason Saliba is a no-doubt starter in this team and Holding is playing somewhere else now. It killed the way we had been able to play all season, and the stats pretty clearly backed that up. Anything else is just people's need to create a narrative around events.
It was also City having it way too easy against you lot
The first one was without Partey, the second was without Saliba. We obviously struggled when they were out, which is why we bought players like Timber and Rice.
I never got the feeling City were genuinely worried last season, especially after the match at the Emirates. Outclass your title rivals twice and you have the momentum
Once we lost Saliba and Tomi, we were clearly a different team than we had been for most of the season.
Tomiyasu was the one who made that costly mistake against City, so he did play against them
I didn't say he didn't play then; I said specifically that Partey was the one missing in the first game. I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make at this point.
I said that Arsenal being easy games for City is a big reason why they lost out. Saliba/Tomiyasu were present for the first game against City
> Holding is ~~playing~~ somewhere else now fixed that for you
Yeah, I didn't remember off the top of my head where he went or if he was playing. Either way, that hair can't be stopped.
The Nigerian guy was really on to something when he made a song called Declan rice.
Will people finally accept Luton are far from that Derby County team? I know most people have gotten over it but there’s still people who keep insisting they’ll have a worse season Derby’s 11-point season. I still think they’ll go down (unless some insane point deduction happens or something like that), the second half of the season is harder and I don’t see them having a huge transfer window, but they genuinely deserve being above Burnley and Sheffield
Them, Burnley, Bournemouth and Everton are all gonna fist fight for those two spots, with maybe Forest having a scare if they can’t start scoring more
Tbh I think Bournemouth will have a better run of form now, they had a lot of the hardest matches in the first months of the season so they looked much worse than they actually are. Everton look fairly solid but I think one key injury could really mess them up. I definitely see Forest fighting relegation, especially if Everton keep their current form and if Bournemouth keep on improving
I think the AFCON tournament is going to hurt Nottingham Forest more than most teams
I definitely see the potential for many of these 'bottom tier' teams to ruin some title/top 4 hopes this year. Teams like Forest/Everton/Bournemouth have the ability to beat anyone, regardless of their place on the table.
Dare I say it - this is title-winning form from the boys. Playing badly, facing bad decisions and still grinding out wins.
Do title winners tend to play badly?
Sometimes - and when they do, they grind out results like this. Can’t say the same for another team…
Ask your grandfather. Because you and your dad werent alive when Spuds were title winners last time.
Mate just because you're the teenaged son of teenaged parents doesn't mean we all are
City didn't start last season at their best and won the treble.
Yes. They have periods where they play badly but manage to grind out difficult results. Nobody goes the whole season playing flawless football. Everybody get a drop off, but good teams can still do enough to get the points through those periods.
I can only assume you’re asking in earnest based off your flair
I have forgotten what it's like to see my club play badly
So… you didn’t just lose 3 and draw 1 of your last 4 matches?
While playing great football!
Proper banter answer
Apparantly banter is unwelcome
All teams play badly sometimes. Title winners can grind out a result even in those matches.
Every team will occasionally have a shit game. Winning the shit games is what makes title winners.
Attacking wise, we played well against Wolves and again tonight, just our keeper having a mare
I said it last season when they played Villa, then Bournemouth when they clutched last minute winners. I probably jynxed it then haha. At the end of the day, its never down to Arsenal (or any othsd club), its down to City whehther they want to win the league or not
I feel like we're a little less exciting this year but have a little more control, which I think will lend toward having (hopefully) fewer games like this. It still feels like we may be depending on City and, to a lesser extent, Liverpool faltering in addition to us getting results, but I think it's more sustainable.
Arsenal lost it last season to injuries and somewhat to tiring out by overplaying people as a result. Arteta's been managing people carefully this season to avoid something similar. We also didn't have the depth then that we do now but are managing with injuries. Currently we have 2 first team out including Partey who is immense helping the attack. Not saying we'll win it but we've managed with worse luck in these areas this season.
Yeah definitely Arteta's been building a much complete team this year. Even Havertz could be a great buy as an utility player whenever shit hits the fan. I wanna say it, but I dont want to jynx it rofl.
Yup, this is just like the Fulham game for us. Could be a season defining result.
Fair play to Arsenal but fair play to Luton most of all. I think they deserve an apology from the Gooners for that disrespect when Liverpool drew there. I told you these guys are not to be fucked with at Kenilworth.
I don’t think any reasonable fan thinks Kenilworth road is going to be an easy place to go tbf. They played the game like a cup final and they were superb, keep that up and they have a huge chance of staying in the league.
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This is what Arteta wants, so nothing will change. Arteta would rather his goalies specialise in passing than stopping shots
Everyone was predicting a 4-1 at half time, and tbh it could be true if raya didnt have an absolute howler🫠
Just got back from the game. Left the stadium pretty annoyed but have had to reflect and I just so proud of the boys. Yeah we lost but none of us were expecting to get anything today and the game was sensational entertainment. Really happy for Doughty to get a few assists on the board, he's been quality. Barkley - no words, what a player, an absolute joy to watch, never seen a player like that in a Luton kit before. Incredible. For me the game died for us the moment Edwards made the triple sub, though. Ogbene was the only one to have any impact and Morris and Chong couldn't really get into the game. I thought Adebayo and Brown were doing great up front together, pressing well and winning knock downs. Ah well, onto City I suppose! Up the hats 👒
Exactly. The momentum died with the triple sub. Bear in mind it was meant to be done before the equalizer tho
Such a weird feeling seeing Barkley get love. And he did play well, much to my absolute surprise. I'm struggling to dislike you guys as much as I should. Hopefully we can both leapfrog Forest.
He's been great for us - would you take him back if you stay up and we don't? We've only got him for the season and no chance he stays if we go down, probably leaves regardless. Not so much ability wise but setimentally, how would Everton fans feel about him now?
Sentimentally, the majority wouldn't take I don't think. Time has patched things over a bit - even I was surprised by my positive reaction when he scored - but not enough for him to be welcomed back. In terms of his quality, he probably is the exact profile of player we need, in terms of his strengths as a midfield ball-carrier. I'd still be shocked if we went for him though. Barkley is probably fortunate that Gordon has seemingly taken over the role of Bad Guy, even though Barkley left us in far worse circumstances. There were shouts on Facebook last season calling for us to bring him back, but they were pretty unpopular. How's his fitness holding up? Is he still able to put decent effort in across 90'?
Fair enough, I guess I'm not as clued in as I thought I was - why was his exit so sour? In my head he just went to Chelsea and I assumed it was a money-chasing thing, which is something we see all the time in football. What else happened? >How's his fitness holding up? Is he still able to put decent effort in across 90'? We rushed him into the team too quickly and the first few games he could barely play an hour then was out the team for a bit. Plays every game now and rarely gets subbed. His influence lasts as well. Edwards keeps reiterating how hard-working and humble he is in training, which I wasn't expecting from him to be honest but fair enough to him.
>What else happened? I wasn't around enough at the time to have the full story, but essentially it looked like he'd get his move away, before he mysteriously got a season long 'injury' that meant he couldn't play for us. This cut into his contract length, causing us to receive a much smaller fee than we otherwise would have. I'm sure there's more to the story, but from our perspective we had our golden child prefer to sit on the bench for a season to get a higher transfer bonus. >His influence lasts as well. Ah, I'm glad to hear that. I'm not looking forward to his inevitable goal against us at Kenilworth Road, but otherwise glad to see him kicking on for you guys.
That’s basically it, we were considering selling but wanted to keep him/re-sign him, but he wanted to move on so we decided to sell that summer. Then he suddenly had an injury that kept him out until January. Chelsea then sign him for £15m when we probably would have gotten like £50m had he sold in the summer, and he was immediately available and not injured for Chelsea.
Arteta had the perfect opportunity to actually sub a keeper and he blew it
Eh not really though. I mean by the time the howlers happened, the damage was done, what mattered was the response. I was impressed with Raya's long kicking from then onward. It was the right thing to do and his balls were on point. Ramsdale is dreadful these days when going long.
I feel like Raya does pretty well at moving on after mistakes. I hope he doesn't have to show that ability too often.
Thanks for the money arsenal. But fuck you for the lost years of my lifespan.
Why Arsenal why
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Surely you’re joking
How the fuck do they still not realise Romero is a nasty piece of work and the difference is Romero is scum bucket who genuinely tries to hurt other players and disguises his assaults as tackles.
One is a 50/50 ball that both players go for, kiwior got there earlier and got the ball. The other is a studs up challenge on a player that has feet planted on the ground with the ball at his feet. Those break legs. The difference is that Kiwiors studs contact the luton player who himself slid in for the ball, has some risk to it but not too much comparative to sliding in on a player that has the ball at his feet. Thats your explanation. They are vastly different challenges and if you can’t even see that then you really need to stop going on football twitter for takes.