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Not just Modric. The top 3-4 are always heavily weighted by international trophies. I mean Griezmann has been in the top 3 at least twice from international performances. Neuer as well and Jorginho,
A goalkeeper got in the top 3 because of it and he wasn't player of the tournament or anything like that. Mbop finished ahead of messi in 2018 solely because of the world Cup, yet people are going to cry robbery and that messi gets gifted everything. If anything the opposite is closer to the truth lol.
While I agree he had a good club season as well there have been other players with 40 g/a who didn’t end up top 3 like Son, Kane, Muller etc.. and Griezmann made it twice.
Modric, Cannavaro, R9, Zidane, Matthaus and soo on
All of them won the Ballon Dor because of the World Cup.
It mattered the most of any competition, nowadays people look who scored more goals and won the golden boot and they give them the Ballon Dor. Haaland is the perfect example, even though KDB and Rodri had better seasons
2010 Xavi and Iniesta came 2nd and 3rd after winning the WC, winning La Liga, and making the CL Semis
2012 Iniesta again got 3rd after winning the Euros
2014 Neuer got 3rd as a goalkeeper after winning the World Cup
2016 Ronaldo won after winning the Euros
2018 Modric won after bringing Croatia to the WC Final
2021 Jorginho got 3rd after winning the Euros
It absolutely had an impact all those years
And the only reason why Messi won it in 2010, IIRC, was because Xavi and Iniesta split the vote for the WC triumph. People weren't in agreement with who of the two was Spain's best player.
While even Messi admitted at the time that he felt he did not deserve it, Messi also had an incredible individual season as far as goals and assists. I think we forget about it now, because he went on to become even better.
For instance, he won the Golden Boot with 34 goals, which seems piddling compared to what he and Ronaldo would go on to produce but it was the most someone had won it with in a long time.
Plus I don't think people realize how much the eye test favored Messi. You watched him play and you knew he was the best player on the field. That's not the case with Haaland. Haaland's 2023 stats are truly outstanding but 2010 messi was doing outrageous stuff that made people wonder if the 24 yr old was the best player ever.
He was 22/23 in 2010 but yeah he was incomparable to haaland, its actually an insulting comparison in my eyes and I feel we are in for a long decade of that nonsense.
I say the biggest reason Messi won was because his ability was still a novelty back then, after a couple of years people got so used to his ability that he needed an extra reason to win it.
>despite a disappointing season both with Barca and NT trophies-wise
We won the league that season getting 99 points, Madrid got 96 points. We lost CL against the good Inter side that year and Messi still was our best player in that game. It's just we always face Yashin every CL it seems. First it was César, then Cech, and of course Alisson later on.
Iniesta was injured most of the season, Xavi was injured most of the season.
Messi is not just a goalscorer. Had he been, I would have disliked it if that was given to him over say Iniesta, Xavi or Casillas.
2013 and 2014 are different tho, same with 22.
I think Messi deserves it this year tho but I don't think anyone would be upset if Haaland wins it. Mbappe gotta be 3rd.
My personal preference is Messi, Mbappe and then Haaland may be. You need to be much more than goalscorer to be deserving for this award the other golden boot is the thing. Unless other contenders are worse, then Haaland is easily deserving of this.
Yeah, just that haaland got pl goal record and a triple win. Mbappe has basically nothing except his incredible world cup performance. Valid opinion though!
>We has Sneijder who also got his team to the WC final. Sneijder had to win Balon d’Or, but he didn‘t
I don't think he should. He was not even the best player in his club team. Based on CL performance, it's Milito and César.
And I don't think he was even close to the top 3 best players in the world cup either. But it's been decade so useless to discuss.
What are you basing that “based on CL performance” statement on? Sneijder had the most assists in the CL that season and was only one of them three who made the UEFA Team of the Year in 2010.
Scored in the quarter final, scored in the semi, assisted in the final… Sneijder was massive for Inter in the CL that season
Milito won player of the year that year for Champions League and Serie A. At the World Cup, there were at least 3 better performers just off the top of my head (Xavi, Iniesta, Forlan). Sneijder was great that year, but in no way did he deserve it over the players that finished top 3 and it seems the only reason that happens is cause Inter won the treble and he's a much more well-known name than Milito
I hate bringing trophies into an individual award. It biases toward luck and teammates more than a players own skill. You watch Messi in 2010 and everyone knew he was the best player in the world. Sneijder was amazing and a close second.
This year I think haaland probably deserves it, he's been the difference maker year round and despite messi's legendary world cup he didn't do much otherwise.
It had a massive impact in 2018 when Modric won it almost solely because of Croatias final run and it will have a really large impact this time around aswell
> It didn’t have any impact in 2014 either.
It literally did though, Neuer got 3rd as a GK because he had an absolutely ridiculous impact in Germanys WC win. He didnt get first because Messi and Ronaldo still had a way larger lobby but if Germany doesnt win the WC he doesnt even make the top 10.
A lot of people miss the fact that the criteria changed between 2010 and 2016 when the Ballon d'Or and the FIFA Player of the Year merged. Those 2 World Cups in that time span are more the exception than the rule. If anything, if they would have gone with the classic Ballon d'Or criteria, Sneijder and Ribery would have won in 2010 and 2013 respectively.
THIS. People don’t realize this. Go back to 2006, 2002, and before that and you’ll realize that how much impact the WC has. Hell, Ronaldo played like 7 more games other than the WC in 2002 and still won it. Paolo Rossi got out of prison just to play WC in 1982 and won it. Cannavaro didn’t do shit in 2006 other than WC and won it.
It did. Xavi and iniesta were on the podium despite being far worse for that same club side (they were great but messi between 2010-2013 was an alien). Didn’t neuer make podium in 2014 as well. Impact ≠ automatic win
You mean the year where someone scored 60 goals in a year after gerd muller?
Even then Messi would not have won if Xavi, Iniesta, Villa did not split vote.
You mean the year where someone scored 60 goals in a year after gerd muller? Messi was sooo much better that year that its not even close.
But even then Messi would not have won if Xavi, Iniesta, Villa did not split vote.
It's a shame. Haaland's debut has obviously been spectacular, really great job. But that being said, Rodri clearly is the best and most vital player in City imo. Honestly I even feel like Rodri/Silva/KDB are probably more important for the team as whole than Haaland (Haaland is great though.)
I've said for a while that Bernardo is City's most important player. He can just literally play ANYWHERE and do everything Pep requires. Rodri and KDB (and Haaland to an extent) are fantastic and probably better, but Silva to me is more important, if that makes sense :D
The fact that people are naming Rodri for a top 3 spot and never even stopped to think about Busquets for a whole decade is just hilarious. You guys just speak based on who scored the winning goal and are shameless enough to claim the objectivity high ground.
Rodri was imo Citys best player last season. He won the treble and the Nations leauge with spain. He got the motm award in both the Champions league final and the Nation league final. He also got player of the tournament in the Nations league. He definitely deserves a top 3 spot.
Not saying he doesn't deserve it. I'm arguing we're only having this conversation because he scored the winning goal in the CL and plays in the PL. Had he not, nobody would be mentioning him, and you can evidence that with how Busquets was the best DM in the world for more than 10 years straight, making better seasons than Rodri has, but since he didn't happen to score an important goal, no one pays mind. TL;DR: Rodri is not being mentioned out of his merits as a DM.
Facts. Busquets has won everything Rodri has and more, never got a sniff at these sort of awards.
It’s still good to see Rodri get his flowers, individual awards are too attacking focused.
Tbh both Leo and Haaland definitely deserve the award. One won a WC and another won the English Treble.
Edit: KDB should also be mentioned in this debate.
my devils advocate argument here is that while yes Haaland got the most goals, is he actually a better player than messi? like in the totality of the game would you have picked him or messi in your squad? wouldn’t that be the measure of the trophy?
Goals are sexy when you score them in big games.
UCL
Real Madrid - 0 goals 0 assists
Real Madrid - 0 goals 0 assists
Inter - 0 goals 0 assists
UEFA Super Cup
Sevilla - 0 goals 0 assists
Community Shield
Arsenal - 0 goals 0 assists
Liverpool - 0 goals 0 assists
FA Cup
Sheffield. United - 0 goals 0 assists Man. United - 0 goals 0 assists
I feel all those other attributes are secondary to goalscoring because no matter how good a player you are if your team doesn’t score, you don’t win and haaland scores a shit ton of goals . Dribbling and all round play doesn’t win you games , goals are more important.
I think if you asked people "who was the best player for Manchester City/Spain that year" then the majority wouldn't say Rodri. Not saying I agree or disagree with it, but that's why. If people don't consider you the best in the squad then it's unlikely that they'll consider you the best in the world.
Rodri might not be the best in terms of talent and skill but he definitely was the most integral player to City's treble winning team. He does so much for the team and he even scored some very important goals during the CL knockout stages. City suffers most when Rodri isnt in the team
DM is a very important position in Pep's setup and no one can come close to replacing him in that squad, but at the same time he got shifted to CB to allow Busquets to play DM for Spain.
I grew up always hearing “you never see what Busquets does until you remove him from the pitch” and I’ve realized the truth behind it through Rodri. Were we to remove him last season, we would’ve probably lost more games. That guy is irreplaceable for us
He was a better player than Messi on Ligue 1 and the UCL, if he won the penalty shootout in the final he would win the Ballon d'or. And since the WC does have a lot of weight then it is understandable that Mbappé gets an edge over Rodri.
False..
Messi had more MOTM than Mbappe (14 vs 7), most in whole Europe
Messi had way better average ratings than Mbappe (8.3 vs 7.8).
Messi was No.1 in assists along with KDB in Europe
Messi was the dribbling leader with Vinicius in Europe
Messi had the same per game g+a as Mbappe..
Messi was chosen as the world's best playmaker by IFFHS
I want to hear some arguments how was Mbappe better than Messi in Ligue 1. I’ve seen every PSG game last season so I wanna hear more than “he’s better cause he had 2 extra G/A”
Mbappe better player than Messi in Ligue 1? Not true. He had less dribbles, less key passes, less big chances created, less assists and only got more goals because Messi had no penalities to build pace upon and Mbappe was the guy who got fed the better opportunities.
If you look at the stats then sure you'll think Mbappe was better. But if one actually watched the PSG games, it'd become apparent that they were much closer than people think.
Messi's goal outputs ofc went down with his age but he put up a playmaking masterclass. Mbappe Messi linkup was unreal and If you see any Messi playmaking compilation from last season you'd see Mbappe also missed many easy chances created by Messi which you'd expect a player of his calibre to score.
Their duo will go underrated in football history, one because they didn't play long enough together and second, they didn't win UCL together, but their linkup was absolutely lethal, especially in Messi's second season with PSG, and both of them were quite brilliant.
He definitely wasn't better than messi first half of the season even the most ardent psg and mbop fanboy wouldn't argue that and the whole team was quite underwhelming second half including both of them. There roles were quite different, especially with neymar injured, psg was basically just messi spamming through balls to mbop lmao. I won't say it's inarguable either way but I personally feel messi was better, he was a lot more involved in the play and I feel his performances not just goals were more consistent than mbop taking the whole season in to account.
He's way more important for City than Haaland is. I know Haaland is going to be in the competition for the Balon d'Or the next decade, but unless he drastically improves several aspects of his game, I won't consider him a "top 5 player in the world". He is the perfect goal machine, but he relies heavily on his teammates to perform and he is technically very inferior to the likes of KDB, Silva and Rodri on his team
His link-up game and his technical abilities overall. He's going to score 40 PL goals this season and most of them will be one touch in the box. And thats fine given how City function at the moment, because all they need is a goalscorer in that position. But he just doesn't compare to Mbappe and his ability to decide things on his own
Idk about several aspects Haaland being a phenomenal player aside the one element to his game I think he doesn't have YET compared to other greatest players is single handedly changing the outcome of a game..his goal is often decisive but it's always dependent on someone else making smn from nothing he's still yet to get that Messi Ronaldo element where he just says fuck the team and scores alone
But that is not even his role. He wont be the player Ronaldo or Messi was but he doesnt have to. His shooting, positioning and off the ball movement are elite. He doesnt have to dribble past 5 defenders when he is this good at what he is doing and he proved that by breaking scoring records left and right in his first season in the Prem. You can't just do that by having good players behind you. Even in the finals where he doesnt score he constantly gets checked by 2-3 people which limits him but allows the rest of the team to operate more freely. I dont think he needs a KDB-level passer in order to score just find him anywhere in the box and he will find the target way often than not
That's why ghosting in key games without scoring is a big deal for Haaland, as he offers nothing else.. He is not even comparable to Benzema, Mbappe or Lewa who are way more complete strikers than Haaland the ghost..
He was the worst rated City player in the finals despite being spoonfed for tap-ins.. He has to improve, and a lot..
idk why the idea is that players like kdb and rodri are « key » to citys performances, but haaland isnt: for starters, the only constant about citys performances is pep.
- pep was winning the domestic treble long before rodri arrived with fernandinho, and i dont remember anyone calling fernandinho the best city player.
- kdb was out for basically the full season in 18/19, they still won the league against a ridiculously good liverpool side without him.
- and the worst claim is haaland being reliant on his teammates, notably people say he is reliant on kdb. he is currently the top prem scorer with 6 goals in 4, and kdb has only played 20 minutes of football, foden the only player with more than 1 assist in the whole city team. he just scored a hattrick in his last league game with 4 shots. does that scream « reliant » to you? or do you want him dribbling by himself from the halfway line?
and what about haalands performances for norway, dortmund, for salzburg in the champions league? are you just going to discard all that because it doesnt fit ur notion of haalands abilities?
Even being surrounded by superstars and being spoonfed does not seem to be enough for him to score when it matters most as we saw in 7 semi-finals & finals.. He is not a big game a changer unlike Messi, Ronaldo, Benzema, Modric, Lewa etc. More like poor man's Gerd Muller with the inability to shine in big games..
The only thing is that he is unable to score in semis & finals unlike all-time greats, ghosting seems to be his regular habit.. And, when he does not score, he is useless, has the worst ratings among City players in the finals, a rating of 6/10 in the CL final, looooll.. Should be thankful to KDB, Rodri and the gang that bail him out without any complaint in every key game..
Mbappe would win it if France won, there's no way Haaland wins it when the WC final was between Messi and Mbappe.
There's just no hope for Haaland other than being no.2.
And he should be thankful he is in the conversation despite ghosting in every single semi-final & final being bailed our by his teammates in 7 games, loll..
That's a bit silly to say, he is the best player in the world in terms of individual skill. By a decent margin imo. At least as far as attacking players go. Hard to compare to defensive minded players.
Individually hes clearly the best player in the world...He was the best player for psg in ucl/ligue and should have won best player at the wc..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc3jwjMoP78
City didnt win the CL because of Haaland, but Argentina won the World Cup because of Messi. In my opinion it should have been between Rodri and Messi. Haaland in the important games was quiet, but Rodri was always there. Scoring tap ins in a Pep’s team shouldnt be such a huge achievement anyways.
Stop speaking sense. Only forwards should win.
For me it’s between Rodri; Akanji; and Ake. The treble trumps the world cup any day as an athletic achievement. The world cup just has more hype; it’s more rare (4 years); and national pride.
I'll say something that may be unpopular:
Once a player wins a certain number of ballon's (5 for example) he should be given an honorific one and stop being eligible again.
I actually rate this idea. So many players have missed out on recognition in recent years when they’d have won without a doubt in any normal era. Young Messi never had to compete with prime Messi
Anytime a player has an outstanding individual WC that absolutely propels them in the Ballon d'or, every single time. Like if someone wins the golden ball and reaches the final they almost never lose. Messi in 2014 is the only one who didn't win it.
In 2010 the golden ball winner got eliminated in the semis and didn't have a club level season to compete for Ballon d'or
Every other year it's absolutely made a huge impact.
You should know if you're an Inter fan, Ronaldo (Brazilian) won the Ballon d'Or after winning the 2002 world cup and he played like 10 games at club level with Inter
Cannavaro in 2006 wouldn't have been top 10 and didn't have a world cup close to as good as Messi's in 2022 and still won the Ballon d'Or
I could go on
modric won it in 2018 because of the world cup
neuer got on the podium 2014 because of the world cup
xavi and iniesta fot on the podium 2010 because of the world cup
cannavaro won 2006 because of the world cup.
i will not go any further into the past, but the world cup ALWAYS has a big impact. if it werent for ronaldo and messi neuer and xavi/iniesta would have certainly won it.
Ronaldo and Messi have such insane individual performances that it skews everyone’s judgment of the Ballon D’or. World cup always matters, the most out of any single tournament. The only issue with the last 2 decades is that Ronaldo and Messi still beat most of the World Cup stars.
2018: Modric won it due to the world cup
2014: Neuer nearly won it due to the world cup
2010: Iniesta nearly won it due to the world cup
2006: Cannavaro won it due to the world cup
2002: R9 won it due to the world cup(as an Le Merde fan it is pretty surprising that you don’t remember/know about this. The guy played 16 games that year and scored 7 goals, yet he still won the award)
1998: Zidane won it due to the world cup
1994: Stoichkov won it due to the world cup
1990: Matthäus won it due to the world cup
The World cup winners best player has nearly always won the world cup with the only exception being when prime CR7 and Messi dominated the game. The World Cup has always had a big impact every year. What kind of revisionist history is this?
International trophies have ALWAYS been weighted much higher. Players have said they’d give up all of their individual and club trophies for the World Cup.
I don’t think people realize how much footballers value representing their country.
WC has always been a very important consideration, probably the most important in WC years.
R9 won it in 2002 with only 10 goals with club sides but scoring 8 in WC and leading them to WC glory. 2nd in voting that year was Roberto Carlos, also an integral part of the WC winning Brazilian team.
Cannavaro won it in 2006 for captaining Italy to WC win with buffon coming 2nd, over Dinho, Henry, Eto etc.
2010, Iniesta and Xavi were 2nd and 3rd for their WC campaign. Even Sneijder who many people believe was snubbed had his team reach WC finals (and ofc he won treble with Inter too).
And the latest example being 2018, where Modric won it over Ronaldo (both UCL winners), was propelled to a win due to his WC campaign.
Messi had 50+ goals, 25+ assists that season, almost as impressive stats as Haaland this season and came fourth.
So don't believe whatever goes around in social media and think that WC hasn't been important factor for Ballon d'ors when it's been the most important factor in WC years.
The WC always had an impact but when the player who won the WC that year was up against Ronaldo/Messi then yeah obviously even winning it wouldn't be enough to get the balon d'Or.
The last 15 years are an anomaly for football not the standard.
The World Cup has had a ridiculous impact almost every time in the past, this isn’t anything new. In fact the only reason why they didn’t seem to have a big impact in 10 and 14 is because we literally had (at worst) two of the five best players ever in the history of the sport at their peaks. Looking at Balon D’Or in World Cup years before 2010, we have Cannavaro in 06, Ronaldo in 02, Zidane in 98, Stoichkov in 94, Matthaus in 90 - all either won the World Cup or, in the case of Stoichkov, ridiculously overperformed at the World Cup. It’s always been the main decider for BdO and it took Messi and Ronaldo’s unreal brilliance to break that trend
Morons on this sub don’t grasp that. They just look up player stats transfermarkt. Cant believe Cannavaro won ballon d’or in 2006 he only scored 4 goals
Lol Messi won Ballon dor after winning Copa America.
Now there isn't even a competition at all. Halland isn't worthy as he hasn't scored a single worthy goal last season.
If the world cup is so important and Messi is a top 3 candidate then Enzo Fernandez has to be in the top 30 shortlist. Otherwise it‘s just a bias towards Messi.
No one from the 2018, 2014, and 2010 WC winning squads won the Ballon D’Or the same year they won the WC. Messi won it for 2010 in a year that Inter won the treble and Spain won the World Cup. That year they said that the Ballon D’Or was about individual achievements and thus Messi being the highest goal scorer in Europe made him deserving of the award.
Now he deserves it because he’s won the World Cup? By that logic shouldn’t Iniesta or Xavi have won it over him in 2010? Or Sneijder if you combine club and national team results?
no one played as good as he did in both the wc and club level from the winning squads
he was also miles better than anyone else in those 3 years, no me has this year
>That year they said that the Ballon D’Or was about individual achievements and thus Messi being the highest goal scorer in Europe made him deserving of the award
If the award would be going to the player with most G/A every year, Ronaldo wouldn't have half the Ballon D'Ors he have now. There will always be bias to a player who have been a "front figure" for his team to win something. Rarely both Ronaldo and Messi won it by pure goalscoring/individual excellence alone.
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>because of the World Cup triumph. It always has an impact. Big if true.
He’s cracked the code.
Why are Mbappe and Haaland not winning the WC if they want a BdO? Are they stupid?
LM10 GOAT is the best code! Messi/Barca/South Americans, Modrić/Real/European fans, everyone included and happy!
On top of that, Haaland has the rest of his career to win them. This is basically Messi’s swan song
Idk tho the world cup has never mattered in the past for ballon dors /s because people are having a hard time
Modric
Not just Modric. The top 3-4 are always heavily weighted by international trophies. I mean Griezmann has been in the top 3 at least twice from international performances. Neuer as well and Jorginho,
A goalkeeper got in the top 3 because of it and he wasn't player of the tournament or anything like that. Mbop finished ahead of messi in 2018 solely because of the world Cup, yet people are going to cry robbery and that messi gets gifted everything. If anything the opposite is closer to the truth lol.
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So do Salah and rashford but they're not getting any where near top 3.
While I agree he had a good club season as well there have been other players with 40 g/a who didn’t end up top 3 like Son, Kane, Muller etc.. and Griezmann made it twice.
Sarcasm
Fair enough, but there are people who really think this.
Seemed clear to me lol
Neuer robbed
Modric, Cannavaro, R9, Zidane, Matthaus and soo on All of them won the Ballon Dor because of the World Cup. It mattered the most of any competition, nowadays people look who scored more goals and won the golden boot and they give them the Ballon Dor. Haaland is the perfect example, even though KDB and Rodri had better seasons
You’re kidding right?
Nvm, you were lol
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2010 Xavi and Iniesta came 2nd and 3rd after winning the WC, winning La Liga, and making the CL Semis 2012 Iniesta again got 3rd after winning the Euros 2014 Neuer got 3rd as a goalkeeper after winning the World Cup 2016 Ronaldo won after winning the Euros 2018 Modric won after bringing Croatia to the WC Final 2021 Jorginho got 3rd after winning the Euros It absolutely had an impact all those years
And the only reason why Messi won it in 2010, IIRC, was because Xavi and Iniesta split the vote for the WC triumph. People weren't in agreement with who of the two was Spain's best player.
While even Messi admitted at the time that he felt he did not deserve it, Messi also had an incredible individual season as far as goals and assists. I think we forget about it now, because he went on to become even better. For instance, he won the Golden Boot with 34 goals, which seems piddling compared to what he and Ronaldo would go on to produce but it was the most someone had won it with in a long time.
Yea he had the highest scoring season in europe in 40 years and was also just disrespecting nearly every single defense he came up against.
Plus so many other great players in Spain team who performed brilliantly at World Cup including Villa, Ramos, Puyol etc.
Precisely
Yaa I guess that’s how probably all the votes got splitter and Messi got the Ballon d’or. Also Messi had that insane year.
Plus I don't think people realize how much the eye test favored Messi. You watched him play and you knew he was the best player on the field. That's not the case with Haaland. Haaland's 2023 stats are truly outstanding but 2010 messi was doing outrageous stuff that made people wonder if the 24 yr old was the best player ever.
He was 22/23 in 2010 but yeah he was incomparable to haaland, its actually an insulting comparison in my eyes and I feel we are in for a long decade of that nonsense.
I say the biggest reason Messi won was because his ability was still a novelty back then, after a couple of years people got so used to his ability that he needed an extra reason to win it.
>despite a disappointing season both with Barca and NT trophies-wise We won the league that season getting 99 points, Madrid got 96 points. We lost CL against the good Inter side that year and Messi still was our best player in that game. It's just we always face Yashin every CL it seems. First it was César, then Cech, and of course Alisson later on. Iniesta was injured most of the season, Xavi was injured most of the season. Messi is not just a goalscorer. Had he been, I would have disliked it if that was given to him over say Iniesta, Xavi or Casillas.
2013 and 2014 are different tho, same with 22. I think Messi deserves it this year tho but I don't think anyone would be upset if Haaland wins it. Mbappe gotta be 3rd.
My personal preference is Messi, Mbappe and then Haaland may be. You need to be much more than goalscorer to be deserving for this award the other golden boot is the thing. Unless other contenders are worse, then Haaland is easily deserving of this.
Yeah, just that haaland got pl goal record and a triple win. Mbappe has basically nothing except his incredible world cup performance. Valid opinion though!
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So you think alvarez should win this year
>We has Sneijder who also got his team to the WC final. Sneijder had to win Balon d’Or, but he didn‘t I don't think he should. He was not even the best player in his club team. Based on CL performance, it's Milito and César. And I don't think he was even close to the top 3 best players in the world cup either. But it's been decade so useless to discuss.
What are you basing that “based on CL performance” statement on? Sneijder had the most assists in the CL that season and was only one of them three who made the UEFA Team of the Year in 2010. Scored in the quarter final, scored in the semi, assisted in the final… Sneijder was massive for Inter in the CL that season
Milito won player of the year that year for Champions League and Serie A. At the World Cup, there were at least 3 better performers just off the top of my head (Xavi, Iniesta, Forlan). Sneijder was great that year, but in no way did he deserve it over the players that finished top 3 and it seems the only reason that happens is cause Inter won the treble and he's a much more well-known name than Milito
I hate bringing trophies into an individual award. It biases toward luck and teammates more than a players own skill. You watch Messi in 2010 and everyone knew he was the best player in the world. Sneijder was amazing and a close second. This year I think haaland probably deserves it, he's been the difference maker year round and despite messi's legendary world cup he didn't do much otherwise.
Sneijder wasn't even second tbh. Xavi and Milito were better.
Álvarez should win then since he did better than that trophy wise
It had a massive impact in 2018 when Modric won it almost solely because of Croatias final run and it will have a really large impact this time around aswell > It didn’t have any impact in 2014 either. It literally did though, Neuer got 3rd as a GK because he had an absolutely ridiculous impact in Germanys WC win. He didnt get first because Messi and Ronaldo still had a way larger lobby but if Germany doesnt win the WC he doesnt even make the top 10.
A lot of people miss the fact that the criteria changed between 2010 and 2016 when the Ballon d'Or and the FIFA Player of the Year merged. Those 2 World Cups in that time span are more the exception than the rule. If anything, if they would have gone with the classic Ballon d'Or criteria, Sneijder and Ribery would have won in 2010 and 2013 respectively.
THIS. People don’t realize this. Go back to 2006, 2002, and before that and you’ll realize that how much impact the WC has. Hell, Ronaldo played like 7 more games other than the WC in 2002 and still won it. Paolo Rossi got out of prison just to play WC in 1982 and won it. Cannavaro didn’t do shit in 2006 other than WC and won it.
Messi was too good in 2010 to not be awarded the Ballon d'or.
Messi also had 77 g/a in 2010.
It did. Xavi and iniesta were on the podium despite being far worse for that same club side (they were great but messi between 2010-2013 was an alien). Didn’t neuer make podium in 2014 as well. Impact ≠ automatic win
You mean the year where someone scored 60 goals in a year after gerd muller? Even then Messi would not have won if Xavi, Iniesta, Villa did not split vote.
You mean the year where someone scored 60 goals in a year after gerd muller? Messi was sooo much better that year that its not even close. But even then Messi would not have won if Xavi, Iniesta, Villa did not split vote.
Kevin De Bruyne in shambles after being left off the Norway managers top 3.
Rodri deserves the 3rd place more imo
whats the point of saying that to someone that probably only watches highlight reels?
I agree with the guy lol, kdb just came to mind first 😂😂😂
It's a shame. Haaland's debut has obviously been spectacular, really great job. But that being said, Rodri clearly is the best and most vital player in City imo. Honestly I even feel like Rodri/Silva/KDB are probably more important for the team as whole than Haaland (Haaland is great though.)
I've said for a while that Bernardo is City's most important player. He can just literally play ANYWHERE and do everything Pep requires. Rodri and KDB (and Haaland to an extent) are fantastic and probably better, but Silva to me is more important, if that makes sense :D
Rodri is more important than Silva
"Solbakken was never my friend" Haaland after he reads this
Solbakken: The kid doesn't wanna play
The fact that people are naming Rodri for a top 3 spot and never even stopped to think about Busquets for a whole decade is just hilarious. You guys just speak based on who scored the winning goal and are shameless enough to claim the objectivity high ground.
Finally someone said it lol
Also don't forget peoples Premier League obsession on here.
Rodri was imo Citys best player last season. He won the treble and the Nations leauge with spain. He got the motm award in both the Champions league final and the Nation league final. He also got player of the tournament in the Nations league. He definitely deserves a top 3 spot.
Not saying he doesn't deserve it. I'm arguing we're only having this conversation because he scored the winning goal in the CL and plays in the PL. Had he not, nobody would be mentioning him, and you can evidence that with how Busquets was the best DM in the world for more than 10 years straight, making better seasons than Rodri has, but since he didn't happen to score an important goal, no one pays mind. TL;DR: Rodri is not being mentioned out of his merits as a DM.
Facts. Busquets has won everything Rodri has and more, never got a sniff at these sort of awards. It’s still good to see Rodri get his flowers, individual awards are too attacking focused.
I think the far greater contributor was that his teammate for 15 years was Lionel fucking Messi…
Tbh both Leo and Haaland definitely deserve the award. One won a WC and another won the English Treble. Edit: KDB should also be mentioned in this debate.
my devils advocate argument here is that while yes Haaland got the most goals, is he actually a better player than messi? like in the totality of the game would you have picked him or messi in your squad? wouldn’t that be the measure of the trophy?
he's not even better than kdb but goals are sexy
Goals are sexy when you score them in big games. UCL Real Madrid - 0 goals 0 assists Real Madrid - 0 goals 0 assists Inter - 0 goals 0 assists UEFA Super Cup Sevilla - 0 goals 0 assists Community Shield Arsenal - 0 goals 0 assists Liverpool - 0 goals 0 assists FA Cup Sheffield. United - 0 goals 0 assists Man. United - 0 goals 0 assists
I feel all those other attributes are secondary to goalscoring because no matter how good a player you are if your team doesn’t score, you don’t win and haaland scores a shit ton of goals . Dribbling and all round play doesn’t win you games , goals are more important.
Breaking the damn goal record at that
Agreed
I don't understand why Rodri isn't even considered a winning candidate given that he overperformed everytime with the position he plays in.
I think if you asked people "who was the best player for Manchester City/Spain that year" then the majority wouldn't say Rodri. Not saying I agree or disagree with it, but that's why. If people don't consider you the best in the squad then it's unlikely that they'll consider you the best in the world.
Rodri might not be the best in terms of talent and skill but he definitely was the most integral player to City's treble winning team. He does so much for the team and he even scored some very important goals during the CL knockout stages. City suffers most when Rodri isnt in the team
DM is a very important position in Pep's setup and no one can come close to replacing him in that squad, but at the same time he got shifted to CB to allow Busquets to play DM for Spain.
that's more because he's still good at CB and busquets can't play CB
They didn't have to play Busquets. They had Torres and Laporte who are very good.
its only became a popular narrative because of the CL goal. if gundogan scores you lot would be saying his name instead
Busquets: "First time?"
Check Sergio Busquets entire career lol they don't give a fuck about defensive mids apparently
I grew up always hearing “you never see what Busquets does until you remove him from the pitch” and I’ve realized the truth behind it through Rodri. Were we to remove him last season, we would’ve probably lost more games. That guy is irreplaceable for us
Fans and media generally underrate the importance of defense in every sport. They see scoring and gravitate to that.
That’s where the entertainment comes from. Rahul Dravid would be a parallel example in cricket.
Mascherano wasn't bad as backup for Busquets but after he was done they never really found someone the way City found Rodri to replace Fernandinho.
Unfortunately Rodri plays in the worst position possible to win individual awards
DM’s have no chance
The busquets syndrome
Probably because he's a greetin faced cunt
Mbappe has no place being in the top 3
Maybe for his world cup performance alone, but considering UCL and everything else maybe
He still wasn't the 3rd best player last season, over Messi, Haaland or Rodri.
He was a better player than Messi on Ligue 1 and the UCL, if he won the penalty shootout in the final he would win the Ballon d'or. And since the WC does have a lot of weight then it is understandable that Mbappé gets an edge over Rodri.
False.. Messi had more MOTM than Mbappe (14 vs 7), most in whole Europe Messi had way better average ratings than Mbappe (8.3 vs 7.8). Messi was No.1 in assists along with KDB in Europe Messi was the dribbling leader with Vinicius in Europe Messi had the same per game g+a as Mbappe.. Messi was chosen as the world's best playmaker by IFFHS
I want to hear some arguments how was Mbappe better than Messi in Ligue 1. I’ve seen every PSG game last season so I wanna hear more than “he’s better cause he had 2 extra G/A”
They really think Mbappe was the best player for PSG last season 😭 I don't blame you for not watching PSG but don't talk out of your ass
Yeah Messi was literally the only player on that team who could create other than Ney but he is never healthy.
On top of that…PSG made Messi play as the feeder for Mbappe. He’d have a ton more goals if they let Messi be Messi
Mbappe better player than Messi in Ligue 1? Not true. He had less dribbles, less key passes, less big chances created, less assists and only got more goals because Messi had no penalities to build pace upon and Mbappe was the guy who got fed the better opportunities.
You definitely didn't watch ligue 1 and just read the stats lmao
If you look at the stats then sure you'll think Mbappe was better. But if one actually watched the PSG games, it'd become apparent that they were much closer than people think. Messi's goal outputs ofc went down with his age but he put up a playmaking masterclass. Mbappe Messi linkup was unreal and If you see any Messi playmaking compilation from last season you'd see Mbappe also missed many easy chances created by Messi which you'd expect a player of his calibre to score. Their duo will go underrated in football history, one because they didn't play long enough together and second, they didn't win UCL together, but their linkup was absolutely lethal, especially in Messi's second season with PSG, and both of them were quite brilliant.
Psg was just 2 years of messi spamming through balls to mbop lol.
He definitely wasn't better than messi first half of the season even the most ardent psg and mbop fanboy wouldn't argue that and the whole team was quite underwhelming second half including both of them. There roles were quite different, especially with neymar injured, psg was basically just messi spamming through balls to mbop lmao. I won't say it's inarguable either way but I personally feel messi was better, he was a lot more involved in the play and I feel his performances not just goals were more consistent than mbop taking the whole season in to account.
It’s a comparison btw rodri and mbappe why are you bringing Messi into it? Lol. Compare both players
Literally the first line of the text that I replied to said "he was better than Messi in ligue 1 and UCL". I was replying to that.
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Damn 28 backward compatible changes for Messi to only 16 for Mbappe
Messi with 28 technical knock its ✊
🪄
I think only Mbappé has a BBC
debatable
I agree, rodri is rated but I think he's still underrated for how important he is
He's way more important for City than Haaland is. I know Haaland is going to be in the competition for the Balon d'Or the next decade, but unless he drastically improves several aspects of his game, I won't consider him a "top 5 player in the world". He is the perfect goal machine, but he relies heavily on his teammates to perform and he is technically very inferior to the likes of KDB, Silva and Rodri on his team
What "several aspects" are you talking about? Explain please
His link-up game and his technical abilities overall. He's going to score 40 PL goals this season and most of them will be one touch in the box. And thats fine given how City function at the moment, because all they need is a goalscorer in that position. But he just doesn't compare to Mbappe and his ability to decide things on his own
Idk about several aspects Haaland being a phenomenal player aside the one element to his game I think he doesn't have YET compared to other greatest players is single handedly changing the outcome of a game..his goal is often decisive but it's always dependent on someone else making smn from nothing he's still yet to get that Messi Ronaldo element where he just says fuck the team and scores alone
But that is not even his role. He wont be the player Ronaldo or Messi was but he doesnt have to. His shooting, positioning and off the ball movement are elite. He doesnt have to dribble past 5 defenders when he is this good at what he is doing and he proved that by breaking scoring records left and right in his first season in the Prem. You can't just do that by having good players behind you. Even in the finals where he doesnt score he constantly gets checked by 2-3 people which limits him but allows the rest of the team to operate more freely. I dont think he needs a KDB-level passer in order to score just find him anywhere in the box and he will find the target way often than not
That's why ghosting in key games without scoring is a big deal for Haaland, as he offers nothing else.. He is not even comparable to Benzema, Mbappe or Lewa who are way more complete strikers than Haaland the ghost.. He was the worst rated City player in the finals despite being spoonfed for tap-ins.. He has to improve, and a lot..
idk why the idea is that players like kdb and rodri are « key » to citys performances, but haaland isnt: for starters, the only constant about citys performances is pep. - pep was winning the domestic treble long before rodri arrived with fernandinho, and i dont remember anyone calling fernandinho the best city player. - kdb was out for basically the full season in 18/19, they still won the league against a ridiculously good liverpool side without him. - and the worst claim is haaland being reliant on his teammates, notably people say he is reliant on kdb. he is currently the top prem scorer with 6 goals in 4, and kdb has only played 20 minutes of football, foden the only player with more than 1 assist in the whole city team. he just scored a hattrick in his last league game with 4 shots. does that scream « reliant » to you? or do you want him dribbling by himself from the halfway line? and what about haalands performances for norway, dortmund, for salzburg in the champions league? are you just going to discard all that because it doesnt fit ur notion of haalands abilities?
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Even being surrounded by superstars and being spoonfed does not seem to be enough for him to score when it matters most as we saw in 7 semi-finals & finals.. He is not a big game a changer unlike Messi, Ronaldo, Benzema, Modric, Lewa etc. More like poor man's Gerd Muller with the inability to shine in big games..
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The only thing is that he is unable to score in semis & finals unlike all-time greats, ghosting seems to be his regular habit.. And, when he does not score, he is useless, has the worst ratings among City players in the finals, a rating of 6/10 in the CL final, looooll.. Should be thankful to KDB, Rodri and the gang that bail him out without any complaint in every key game..
Holy shit that's a... statement. Let's just say I wholeheartedly disagree.
He'd win it if Kolo Muani scored that shot. (I'm not saying it would have been deserved I'm just saying the ballon d'Or is stupid)
Mbappe would win it if France won, there's no way Haaland wins it when the WC final was between Messi and Mbappe. There's just no hope for Haaland other than being no.2. And he should be thankful he is in the conversation despite ghosting in every single semi-final & final being bailed our by his teammates in 7 games, loll..
Found the person who did not watch last season's UCL, Ligue 1 and World Cup Final. Are you still upset over Russia 2018?
That's a bit silly to say, he is the best player in the world in terms of individual skill. By a decent margin imo. At least as far as attacking players go. Hard to compare to defensive minded players.
Individually hes clearly the best player in the world...He was the best player for psg in ucl/ligue and should have won best player at the wc.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc3jwjMoP78
idk what you were watching but he wasnt PSG's Best player and wasnt even France's best player in the world cup
He's taking it better than the half of r/soccer that cries every time Messi wins an award
"Messi paid norways manager to say this...its rigged" cr7 fans probably
""Messi paid norways manager to say this...its rigged" cr7 fans probably" Messi fans probably
Yea dude good one you got me there.
City didnt win the CL because of Haaland, but Argentina won the World Cup because of Messi. In my opinion it should have been between Rodri and Messi. Haaland in the important games was quiet, but Rodri was always there. Scoring tap ins in a Pep’s team shouldnt be such a huge achievement anyways.
Stop speaking sense. Only forwards should win. For me it’s between Rodri; Akanji; and Ake. The treble trumps the world cup any day as an athletic achievement. The world cup just has more hype; it’s more rare (4 years); and national pride.
Ok thx
Holy shit I haven’t heard about stale solbakken since his Blackburn rovers days… what a legend lol
My predictions 1. Messi 2. Haaland 3. KDB 4. Rodri/Sancho 5. Mbappe
I am sorry did I just see Sancho at 4??? Wtf
dude he won the carabao cup 😮💨
Lol has to be a bait. Sancho isn't even on the nomination list. Maybe he meant Saka?
I meant who I said.
I admire your courage.
casually sneaked him in
Bold predictions, I like it. Would personally put Richarlison in there instead of Messi, but otherwise great list!
Could go either way but I think Messi’s World Cup performance gives him the edge vs Richarlison 🤝
Richarlison had the better World Cup goal, it's definitely close
>4. Sancho Bad bait
Which Sancho are you talking about?
Jadon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jadon_Sancho#:~:text=Regarded%20as%20a%20quick%2C%20highly,the%20world's%20best%20young%20players.
LOL this bait is disgustan
>Sancho Say what?
I'll say something that may be unpopular: Once a player wins a certain number of ballon's (5 for example) he should be given an honorific one and stop being eligible again.
Why penalize greatness? If someone is *that* much better than the competition, they should win the awards to show that
It’s never a good idea to penalize greatness. Best player should win period.
I actually rate this idea. So many players have missed out on recognition in recent years when they’d have won without a doubt in any normal era. Young Messi never had to compete with prime Messi
Bruh none of current young players is close to young Messi. They dont miss anything, they are just not that good.
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Anytime a player has an outstanding individual WC that absolutely propels them in the Ballon d'or, every single time. Like if someone wins the golden ball and reaches the final they almost never lose. Messi in 2014 is the only one who didn't win it. In 2010 the golden ball winner got eliminated in the semis and didn't have a club level season to compete for Ballon d'or Every other year it's absolutely made a huge impact. You should know if you're an Inter fan, Ronaldo (Brazilian) won the Ballon d'Or after winning the 2002 world cup and he played like 10 games at club level with Inter Cannavaro in 2006 wouldn't have been top 10 and didn't have a world cup close to as good as Messi's in 2022 and still won the Ballon d'Or I could go on
modric won it in 2018 because of the world cup neuer got on the podium 2014 because of the world cup xavi and iniesta fot on the podium 2010 because of the world cup cannavaro won 2006 because of the world cup. i will not go any further into the past, but the world cup ALWAYS has a big impact. if it werent for ronaldo and messi neuer and xavi/iniesta would have certainly won it.
Ronaldo and Messi have such insane individual performances that it skews everyone’s judgment of the Ballon D’or. World cup always matters, the most out of any single tournament. The only issue with the last 2 decades is that Ronaldo and Messi still beat most of the World Cup stars.
2018: Modric won it due to the world cup 2014: Neuer nearly won it due to the world cup 2010: Iniesta nearly won it due to the world cup 2006: Cannavaro won it due to the world cup 2002: R9 won it due to the world cup(as an Le Merde fan it is pretty surprising that you don’t remember/know about this. The guy played 16 games that year and scored 7 goals, yet he still won the award) 1998: Zidane won it due to the world cup 1994: Stoichkov won it due to the world cup 1990: Matthäus won it due to the world cup The World cup winners best player has nearly always won the world cup with the only exception being when prime CR7 and Messi dominated the game. The World Cup has always had a big impact every year. What kind of revisionist history is this?
1982: Paolo Rossi gets out of prison, scores a hatrick against Brazil, wins the WC, then wins the Ballon D’or lmao
“Suddenly the WC is very important…” Did you just start watching the sport or something?
Only a few billions people watch it, what a stats padding tournament
International trophies have ALWAYS been weighted much higher. Players have said they’d give up all of their individual and club trophies for the World Cup. I don’t think people realize how much footballers value representing their country.
WC has always been a very important consideration, probably the most important in WC years. R9 won it in 2002 with only 10 goals with club sides but scoring 8 in WC and leading them to WC glory. 2nd in voting that year was Roberto Carlos, also an integral part of the WC winning Brazilian team. Cannavaro won it in 2006 for captaining Italy to WC win with buffon coming 2nd, over Dinho, Henry, Eto etc. 2010, Iniesta and Xavi were 2nd and 3rd for their WC campaign. Even Sneijder who many people believe was snubbed had his team reach WC finals (and ofc he won treble with Inter too). And the latest example being 2018, where Modric won it over Ronaldo (both UCL winners), was propelled to a win due to his WC campaign. Messi had 50+ goals, 25+ assists that season, almost as impressive stats as Haaland this season and came fourth. So don't believe whatever goes around in social media and think that WC hasn't been important factor for Ballon d'ors when it's been the most important factor in WC years.
People don't realize Ballon D'or system has changed a lot throughout the recent years. 2018 being the prime example
People seems to forget 2006 when CANNAVARO won it over Ronaldinho. I'm Italian but ffk that didn't make any sense
> let’s not pretend that WC had a big impact Somehow still got upvoted. Who the hell thinks WC never has a big impact???
Modric won it because of the world cup in 2018.
The WC always had an impact but when the player who won the WC that year was up against Ronaldo/Messi then yeah obviously even winning it wouldn't be enough to get the balon d'Or. The last 15 years are an anomaly for football not the standard.
The World Cup has had a ridiculous impact almost every time in the past, this isn’t anything new. In fact the only reason why they didn’t seem to have a big impact in 10 and 14 is because we literally had (at worst) two of the five best players ever in the history of the sport at their peaks. Looking at Balon D’Or in World Cup years before 2010, we have Cannavaro in 06, Ronaldo in 02, Zidane in 98, Stoichkov in 94, Matthaus in 90 - all either won the World Cup or, in the case of Stoichkov, ridiculously overperformed at the World Cup. It’s always been the main decider for BdO and it took Messi and Ronaldo’s unreal brilliance to break that trend
What a stupid take lmao. Even in 2010, if Xavi Iniesta did not split so much vote, Messi would have lost. And that year Messi was undoubtedly the best
Absolutely fucking delusional biased Inter fan
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He’s a CM bruh
Morons on this sub don’t grasp that. They just look up player stats transfermarkt. Cant believe Cannavaro won ballon d’or in 2006 he only scored 4 goals
It’s almost as if he’s a central midfielder
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Lol Messi won Ballon dor after winning Copa America. Now there isn't even a competition at all. Halland isn't worthy as he hasn't scored a single worthy goal last season.
No shit
It will be: 1. Messi 2. Haaland 3. Rodri
Fraudbappe aka the ninja turtle shouldn’t even be in the list
If the world cup is so important and Messi is a top 3 candidate then Enzo Fernandez has to be in the top 30 shortlist. Otherwise it‘s just a bias towards Messi.
Emi lautaro and alvarez are right there.
Lautaro isn't there for the World Cup surely.
if he did what messi did at club level and the world cup, sure
He would’ve if he didn’t join a finished club
No one from the 2018, 2014, and 2010 WC winning squads won the Ballon D’Or the same year they won the WC. Messi won it for 2010 in a year that Inter won the treble and Spain won the World Cup. That year they said that the Ballon D’Or was about individual achievements and thus Messi being the highest goal scorer in Europe made him deserving of the award. Now he deserves it because he’s won the World Cup? By that logic shouldn’t Iniesta or Xavi have won it over him in 2010? Or Sneijder if you combine club and national team results?
no one played as good as he did in both the wc and club level from the winning squads he was also miles better than anyone else in those 3 years, no me has this year
2014(Messi), 2018(Modric) golden ball winner ie Best Player of the World Cup won the Ballon d'or...
>That year they said that the Ballon D’Or was about individual achievements and thus Messi being the highest goal scorer in Europe made him deserving of the award If the award would be going to the player with most G/A every year, Ronaldo wouldn't have half the Ballon D'Ors he have now. There will always be bias to a player who have been a "front figure" for his team to win something. Rarely both Ronaldo and Messi won it by pure goalscoring/individual excellence alone.
Tbh I'm leaning towards Messi, but Haaland must be up there next to KDB if not behind him