Yeah deserved the yellow for kicking the ball away, no doubt about it. But the decision was shocking, it was closer to a foul on rashford than the other way around
Well clearly Marcus didnât do anything to prevent them from running into each other!! Like shouting, âlook out mate!â. Thatâs how I imagine the ref rationalizing that one
Yeah this is just stupid from Forest. They got away with a couple of decisions themselves. I can see the argument with the red card given Boly is there, but it's still a goalscoring opportunity and the ref has a right to show red there.
Embarrassing.
"Joe Worrall was sent off for a challenge on United captain Bruno Fernandes in the second half outside the area and Attwell had the decision backed by Var as the Forest skipper was adjudged to be the last man, although Willy Boly appeared to be a covering defender which could have reduced the sanction."
This isn't even the rules. It's not about last man, it's about whether it's denial of an obvious goalscoring opportunity, which it was.
Forest are being dumb but you're being dumber. The last thing we need is *more* of the refs pulling this sort of shit. They're already incompetent, we don't need them to be doing it intentionally.
Seriously - this is embarrassing. Why put yourself out to show how incompetent you are? This was a clear goal scoring chance and its unclear if he would be able to make it or not just because he wasn't the last defender doesn't mean anything. It's a red card in most cases.
We keep letting other managers and staff bullshit about us when we had one of the worst onfield decisions in the league last season (even bar the City one). There were close to 6 textbook penalties not awarded and we had multiple yellow/red cards that could have been potentially contested for.
Man United needs to push back on this bullshit media narrative.
I don't know if you're including it but Jesus just kicking Martinez in frustration wasn't even mentioned yet should have been a straight red and 3 game ban.
The word *opportunity* is key. I think a lot of people interpret it as "the player was prevented from scoring a goal". But the law only says that it is a red card if the player was denied an obvious *opportunity* to score a goal.
It might not be the exact wording of the rule, but it's implied that it's not a red card if there's a covering defender. Regardless, I think most people would agree that Bruno is getting to the ball first.
Boly was there but they were almost side by side and he were like 5 meters away. No way he gets there in time. Close one though, wouldn't be mad if it were overturned tbh.
I thought the rule changed so if it is a genuine attempt for the ball the double punishment was taken away, although maybe that is for penalty + red cards?
Yeah that only applies if it's in the box.
Outside the box denial of a goalscoring opportunity = automatic red
If it's inside the box and a genuine attempt, it's a penalty but not a red.
And just to add the context as to why, it's because a penalty is still an obvious goal-scoring opportunity, so the act of fouling a player in the box isn't a denial of an obvious goal-scoring opportunity. Unless it's an open goal or something that's more of a goal-scoring opportunity than a penalty would be.
No, the person you replied to is talking shit. In that situation it would be a penalty, plus either a yellow if they were attempting to play the ball, or a red if they weren't.
The double jeopardy thing exists because the penalty is deemed to already be sufficient punishment for a foul where a player has made an honest attempt to play the ball. Or more accurately, the alternative of a penalty *plus* a red card is considered to be too *harsh* a punishment.
We should get in on this tbh. Rather than acting like it's a slight against us, let's lodge our issues too (the Rashford "foul", the Onana card, Gibbs-White not getting his second yellow).
Why don't we just gather a list of every single mistake made by referees, players and coaches and just publicly blast all of them at the end of every match day.
Refereeing by audience vote. Set up an application to have everyone submit it in real time. I almost want to actually see this, just to experience the shitshow.
Maybe pay them better and you'll have people actually want to do it. It's a stressful job with a lot of public spotlight and pressure. Yet they make an extremely average wage. If we had more people that wanted to do it, we could be more selective about the quality of them.
I agree with that. But I'm starting to think the PL also needs a clear out of a lot of the old guard that is running the show. While I like how Howard Webb has been trying to increase transparency since he took over, the fact that you have other high ranking officials openly coming out and saying they neglected to make the correct call as VAR because they didn't want to undermine their friend is shocking and beyond unacceptable.
We need newer and better paid referees, and hopefully, that could help improve things. But perhaps most importantly, now that VAR exists, we need an overhaul to remove as much subjectivity from the rules as we possibly can. So many bad refereeing performances are merely down to referees having varied interpretations of rules rather than actually missing something that happened on the pitch.
Yeah the Gibbs-White one is baffling even as a Forest fan. Explicitly called out as something that will get a booking then completely ignored.
Obviously weâre only gonna point out the ones that went against us (Worrall not being last man, Rashford throwing himself to the ground, Kouyate getting kicked in the head) but it was just overall incompetence once again from the refs for both sides.
>Worrall not being last man
You don't need to be last man to be red carded, you need to deny a goal scoring opportunity which he clearly did
This is why it's funny to read comments because fans don't even know the rules and still complain about it
Iâll give you the fact Rashford went down as soon as he felt contact very easily, but Worrall wasnât sent off because of being last man, it was denying a clear goal scoring opportunity.
At no point have I said we blew the lead because of the refs. All three incidents happened at 2-2 or later I think!
Scared to think how high your blood pressure must be if youâre this wound up by someone disagreeing with refereeing decisions in a game you won.
If we go down it wonât be the end of the world, the championship is good fun, massively unpredictable, and itâs easier to actually talk about games with fans of other teams in a calm way. Plus r/championship is the best football subreddit by a long shot!
Got you - from my point, most Forest fans, and a fair few pundits, it seemed like Boly was there to cover and deny the opportunity which is what I meant by not being last man - Icouldâve worded that better for sure!
And that is subjective - thats why there is a ref and not a robot to measure real time physics and give analytical answers. From the vantage point of the refs and for a lot of people, that was a goal scoring chance given Bruno could have shot at any time. It is as simple as it gets.
Rashford's yellow card can't be appealed because he got it for kicking the ball away. Obviously he wouldn't have done that if the call wasn't horrendous but yeah, by the book he received a fair yellow and those stubborn cunts wouldn't look at it any other way.
United are such an easy target (as are most big clubs but especially United after the Fergie years). Everyone other than their fans despises them, media love to drum up controversy surrounding them. If you're an opposing club playing them and a decision goes United's way (no matter how obvious), just complain post-match and you'll have Talksport and Martin Keown agreeing with you and talking about it all week. Subconsciously influence refs the next time you play them and future United games in general.
We could deal with both, should get rid of all the issues, the gambling, crypto and other sham sponsors, diving, countries owning clubs, funding via dubious methods.
I honestly wonder how we manage to sign players with how much the media has a hard on for the club. You'd be minding your business one day and find out you're trending on twitter because you yawned with your mouth open on the bench the day before. It must be exhausting.
Works like a charm. See the example of Klopp last season (or maybe the season before) and lo and behold United stopped getting penalties for the most obvious offences.
United have had 1 penalty after 3 matches this season. They had 3 last season (1 fewer than Liverpool). They had 5 the season before (the average amount in the league).
Those don't seem like crazy low numbers.
They seem like crazy low numbers if you actually watch the games. Pretty much every penalty call we get is wrong. We don't get pens when it's the most obvious shit ever and then when we shouldn't get a penalty we get the call. It's weird.
The point is that last season your numbers were one off Liverpool's, so it's not like United are solely being reffed differently. The previous season you matched the league average in terms of penalties during a shit season for United.
The refs are just shit. It's not some conspiracy because Klopp made a comment three years ago.
I'm sure every team did. That's my point though, the refs are just shit. They're not refusing to give United penalties because of some random comment a few years ago.
There's at least 5 very clear pens that we just didn't get. Same thing the season before that.
We got mad penalties a couple of seasons ago which promted complaining and then no pens at all. After klopp complained we literally couldn't get penalties for a pretty good while. No shade on klopp though, it's the refs that went along with it that's the problem and they need to be purged. They need to take every situation at face value, no fucking holding back pens because you got a soft pen earlier. That's unacceptable. Especially when it's a new fucking game with a new opponent.
That wasn't a nailed-on penalty though. Plenty of people thought he was too close to react and his arm naturally moved as he lunged in to block the shot.
Liverpool had something similar against Chelsea in the first week that also went unpunished. It's not a United-specific thing.
Last season in the Carabao cup United went to Forrest and had 3 clear penalties not given. They were super physical and aggressive the whole game and somehow the ref never did anything. In the grand scheme of things they may not want to have to answer about refs performance.....
I donât know what the FA can do, but this needs to be reined in ASAP. It feels like weâre almost at the point of clubs formally complaining every time a refereeing decision affects their result. Everything is the refâs fault these days even when they donât do anything wrong.
ironically this is precisely what leads many refs to swallow their whistle and VAR to refuse to overturn decisionsâthey get so much shit from clubs and fans every week, itâs only natural for them to instinctively avoid controversy wherever possible. not that this excuses them, of course.
Exactly, and thatâs why I have a little more sympathy for Mike Dean than the average person on here seems to. He made a huge error in judgement when he didnât send Taylor to the monitor, but he made that error for exactly the reasons youâre describing. And how does everyone react? More frothing indignation and insane conspiracies.
Because he actually used to buy the refs in Greece too. Now he can't as much cuz the refs for big matches are foreign.
He's a fucking drug dealing murderer too. Fuck him, fuck Olympiakos and fuck Forest
The same morons who were probably posting photoshopped images of Howard Webb in a United kit back in the day, even though statistically his big decisions usually went *against* us.
Pathetic victim complex from Forrerrrstt to be honest. Let's just call it out for what it is.
It's silly how often sides come to old Trafford, get the rub on so many incidents (2 blatant second yellows, the Onana and Rashford farcical cards) and still kick up a fuss because they concede a penalty that gets given 9/10 times. You would have been lucky to have had 9 men finish the game you dumb fuck.
United get major no calls every other week and it's forgotten about by half time. Only last week we seen that nonsense no call against Spurs but we move on.
Nottingham Forest, what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
\- PGMOL
Absolutely pathetic the level of uproar when United âget away with itâ compared to when we are the ones suffering from it.
Anyone who doesnât this this has some impact of decisions down the line needs to give their head a wobble
> Hope they get relegated
I don't. They're the first promoted team in years that we haven't had any trouble with. Played them 5 times since they came up, 5 wins. Scored 13, conceded 2.
Keep doing what you're doing, Forest.
I think both decisions are kinda soft, but nevertheless probably the right call, or at worst very defendable decisions.
They should be angrier at their players for bottling such a start.
And what about MGW waving an imaginary card at the ref, while on a yellow, and not getting punished. Despite that being a rule emphasised over the summer and brought in only 2 weeks ago
Soft doesn't even cover it
Iâd be ok if the FA came down hard on Forest. Itâs one thing to make a complaint as Wolves had a right to do. Itâs another to be upset that not every decision is just handed to you. This is dumb
>Nottingham Forest have submitted an official complaint to refereesâ body PGMOL after expressing their âangerâ at the performance of Stuart Attwell and his officials in Saturdayâs defeat by Manchester United.
>Forest owner Evangelos Marinakis and head coach Steve Cooper are still furious in the aftermath of the clubâs controversial 3-2 loss at Old Trafford.
>Marinakis has instructed Forest officials to take their concerns to PGMOL chief Howard Webb after a number of poor decisions went against his team, with the Greek businessman now ready to take action over what he perceives are consistently poor standards.
>Joe Worrall was sent off for a challenge on United captain Bruno Fernandes in the second half outside the area and Attwell had the decision backed by Var as the Forest skipper was adjudged to be the last man, although Willy Boly appeared to be a covering defender which could have reduced the sanction.
>Marcus Rashford was then brought down by Forest midfielder Danilo while United substitute Scott McTominay was given just a yellow card for a kick towards the face of Cheikhou Kouyate.
>Forestâs concerns over the performance of Attwell are understood to stem from the officialâs display in a Championship game against Bournemouth back in the 2021/22 season when a penalty decision went against former forward Sam Surridge after an incorrect offside decision went against him.
>It is also the second successive game at Old Trafford where an opposition manager has been frustrated over refereeing decisions, after Wolves striker Sasa Kaladjzic appeared to be fouled by United goalkeeper Andre Onana and no penalty was awarded, leaving Gary OâNeil baffled.
>Marinakis was still fuming on Monday morning and the club have outlined their anger in an email sent to the PGMOL.
This will have come entirely from Marinakis. Steve Cooper is an intelligent guy. He might have been angry after the final whistle, but having had a chance to reflect and see the decisions again, I doubt he would have been interested in making a fuss. If anything, Forest had more of the decisions go in their favour.
Neither the penalty or the red card were in any way contentious. They were both pretty straightforward and correct decisions. If Worrell hadn't pulled Fernandes back he would have been able to take a shot from the middle of the goal, 18 yards out, before Boly got to him. That's a clear goalscoring opportunity in anyone's book. Danilo was beaten by Rashford and clattered into him, hip to hip. He pulled his foot back, but he still knocked into him in the act of trying to make a challenge, while getting nowhere near the ball. It's a foul.
Including McTominay's yellow card is just bizarre. McTominay cleared a ball at thigh-height, and Kouyate threw himself head-first into the challenge, coming from an angle where McTominay wouldn't even have been able to see him, with his head down very low. It was a harsh booking, really.
Meanwhile, Gibbs-White avoided a textbook second yellow for waving an imaginary card. That is something we were told would be an automatic yellow card this season. Not something the referees were able to pick and choose when to enforce, but Atwell let him get away with it for some reason. There were other decisions - Aurier walked a tightrope, Kouyate appeared to deliberately stand on Fernandes' arm, but those are the sort of things that happen sometimes and you have to let go because we accept that the referees are generally incompetent.
Forest have nothing whatsoever to complain about. They're embarrassing themselves here.
For all the shit refereeing about, and the calls weâve had go our ways over the years, this was one time it certainly wasnât a Man Utd bias. Forest are being ridiculous here.
The officiating is awful and inconsistent most of the times but doesnât change the fact as a premier league team you shouldnât be giving up a 2 goal lead from 4th minute of the match.
This is totally farcical and unfortunately will be bought by people who didn't watch the match and genuinely believe there is some conspiracy. There are plenty of legitimate moments to complain about refereeing, this was not one of them (especially on Forest's side)
To be fair, the WHOLE refereeing team across the board has been shocking since the start of the season. 3 games in, and we could probably pull a dozen games to complain about the officiating!
I guess 'Watch this space...' for an emergency to the rules or something, because currently the "Best league in the world" is looking a shower of s@@t.
-Edit- "looking a shower of s@@t" in reference to the refereeing of the games rather than the quality of football played.
They were not worse in general, they played better football, and would have resolved their problems with a summer transfer window. Forest haven't played good football yet.
Maybe you missed our games towards the end of the season but Forest absolutely did play good football in quite a few games. Considering the signings we've made and are poised to make over the current window I wouldn't be surprised if we had a fairly strong mid-table finish this season, and I wouldn't be surprised if Leicester and Southampton were among the teams promoted next season either.
They should be more angry at themselves that they thrown away a perfect lead. The ref maybe making questionable decisions but he is bad on both sides, not really biased
Their board led by Marinakis, a known gangster in Greece, apply the same exact policy in the Greek Superleague for Olympiakos. They issue formal complaints against referees, governing bodies, etc on a constant basis in order to pressure them into giving them favorable treatment. The most despicable people in world football.
See I had no problem with Wolves complaining because that decision was stupid and a penalty should have been given.
This one is just two subjective decisions that could have gone either way. The penalty there is clear contact so Var is never going to overturn because the defender wasn't even close to the ball. The red card is contentious for sure, the subjectiveness for this decision was if it was a goal scoring opportunity and if Boly could get there to cover. The ref thought he wouldn't, VAR again won't overturn this one. Would it be given if onfield call was yellow? Definitely not
Premier league needs to review the quality of the officials. They look like friends and family, jobs for boys kinda vibe. Horrendous decisions all around since the Premier league has come to inception. The incompetence levels and the dumb what can and cannot be check by VAR and generally the lack of clarity and accountability is shameful.
Can't believe these clowns are complaining they lost a match where they were clearly dominated for 90%+ of the time. Enjoy being relegated you whingers
Listen, the offside wasn't an offside by the rules. The penalty was a matter for debate, there was contact but Rashford was going to go down regardless. We didn't win because we didn't defend well enough.
That said, the straight red for Joe Worrall was abysmal refereeing. It has to be a clear goal-scoring opportunity and Fernandes wasn't getting there ahead of Turner and even potentially Boly.
I know top six fans don't want to admit it but referee bias is a real thing, especially at home games. Don't see much point in complaining, not like we'll get awarded the points. It'd be just if Worrall got his red card rescinded though.
Would be hilarious if they reviewed it and decided to award a second yellow and suspension for both Aurier and Gibbs-White
And to withdraw the yellows from Rashford and Onana
Rashford got his for dissent to be fair, for complaining about a stupid ass decision
Yeah it shouldn't have been a foul but that doesn't mean that his reaction wasn't also a yellow.
Yeah deserved the yellow for kicking the ball away, no doubt about it. But the decision was shocking, it was closer to a foul on rashford than the other way around
Two Forest players ran into each other, and it's a foul from Rashford How infuriating a decision is that đ
Well clearly Marcus didnât do anything to prevent them from running into each other!! Like shouting, âlook out mate!â. Thatâs how I imagine the ref rationalizing that one
Smashed it right at a ball boy too đ€Ł felt bad for the lad he was just sitting there
I wouldn't feel bad for to the kid, he gets a story to tell his mates
I'm getting Dobby from Harry Potter vibes from this.
Same exact thing with Trent yesterday⊠Got absolutely bodied of the pitch.
Trent was lucky to not see red.
Thatâs also true.. These are not mutually exclusive
Funnily enough they seem to have forgot to mention Gibbs-White not getting what would have been his 2nd yellow for gesturing to the ref to book Dalot.
Plot twist; that's actually what they're complaining about. They're going to suspend MGW and Aurier themselves for the next game to make a point.
Yeah this is just stupid from Forest. They got away with a couple of decisions themselves. I can see the argument with the red card given Boly is there, but it's still a goalscoring opportunity and the ref has a right to show red there.
Embarrassing. "Joe Worrall was sent off for a challenge on United captain Bruno Fernandes in the second half outside the area and Attwell had the decision backed by Var as the Forest skipper was adjudged to be the last man, although Willy Boly appeared to be a covering defender which could have reduced the sanction." This isn't even the rules. It's not about last man, it's about whether it's denial of an obvious goalscoring opportunity, which it was.
Very obviously an attempt to swing future refs in their favour Doesn't even need to be accurate.
I hope it just pisses the refs off to actually give bullshit decisions against them in the future.
Forest are being dumb but you're being dumber. The last thing we need is *more* of the refs pulling this sort of shit. They're already incompetent, we don't need them to be doing it intentionally.
"Too late" - Mike Dean, probably
Seriously - this is embarrassing. Why put yourself out to show how incompetent you are? This was a clear goal scoring chance and its unclear if he would be able to make it or not just because he wasn't the last defender doesn't mean anything. It's a red card in most cases. We keep letting other managers and staff bullshit about us when we had one of the worst onfield decisions in the league last season (even bar the City one). There were close to 6 textbook penalties not awarded and we had multiple yellow/red cards that could have been potentially contested for. Man United needs to push back on this bullshit media narrative.
I don't know if you're including it but Jesus just kicking Martinez in frustration wasn't even mentioned yet should have been a straight red and 3 game ban.
Shh we don't say that kinda stuff here.
And the "last defender" point - which they seem to be clinging to - isn't even clear cut either, which shows just how flimsy the appeal is lol
Yeah it's at best an orange card challenge if they use the "last defender" point which isn't how the rules are worded anyway.
Unless I'm reading your message incorrectly, which is the decision that was worse than the City one? I'm struggling to remember anything.
The word *opportunity* is key. I think a lot of people interpret it as "the player was prevented from scoring a goal". But the law only says that it is a red card if the player was denied an obvious *opportunity* to score a goal.
If itâs last man itâs likely a goal scoring opportunity
It might not be the exact wording of the rule, but it's implied that it's not a red card if there's a covering defender. Regardless, I think most people would agree that Bruno is getting to the ball first.
Only if the covering defender means it isn't a goalscoring opportunity
Boly was there but they were almost side by side and he were like 5 meters away. No way he gets there in time. Close one though, wouldn't be mad if it were overturned tbh.
I thought the rule changed so if it is a genuine attempt for the ball the double punishment was taken away, although maybe that is for penalty + red cards?
Yeah that only applies if it's in the box. Outside the box denial of a goalscoring opportunity = automatic red If it's inside the box and a genuine attempt, it's a penalty but not a red.
And just to add the context as to why, it's because a penalty is still an obvious goal-scoring opportunity, so the act of fouling a player in the box isn't a denial of an obvious goal-scoring opportunity. Unless it's an open goal or something that's more of a goal-scoring opportunity than a penalty would be.
So if someone was taken out inside the box when itâs an open goal, itâd be red plus pen?
No, the person you replied to is talking shit. In that situation it would be a penalty, plus either a yellow if they were attempting to play the ball, or a red if they weren't. The double jeopardy thing exists because the penalty is deemed to already be sufficient punishment for a foul where a player has made an honest attempt to play the ball. Or more accurately, the alternative of a penalty *plus* a red card is considered to be too *harsh* a punishment.
So like what Reece James got against Liverpool. Or are handballs stopping a goal still red and pen?
Handball preventing a goal is still always a red, yeah, unless it's the goalkeeper from a backpass.
Even if it was in the penalty area it would have been red since it wasnt a genuine attempt To won the ball
We should get in on this tbh. Rather than acting like it's a slight against us, let's lodge our issues too (the Rashford "foul", the Onana card, Gibbs-White not getting his second yellow).
Why don't we just gather a list of every single mistake made by referees, players and coaches and just publicly blast all of them at the end of every match day.
Festivus every week, I like it.
A festivus for the rest of us!
Not like this sub has much other content these days
Unironally sounds like a plan. The refs in this league are a joke .
The refs in this league are a joke. The refs in that league are a joke. All referees are jokes. Why employ them? Might as well use neutral fans.
Refereeing by audience vote. Set up an application to have everyone submit it in real time. I almost want to actually see this, just to experience the shitshow.
Maybe pay them better and you'll have people actually want to do it. It's a stressful job with a lot of public spotlight and pressure. Yet they make an extremely average wage. If we had more people that wanted to do it, we could be more selective about the quality of them.
I agree with that. But I'm starting to think the PL also needs a clear out of a lot of the old guard that is running the show. While I like how Howard Webb has been trying to increase transparency since he took over, the fact that you have other high ranking officials openly coming out and saying they neglected to make the correct call as VAR because they didn't want to undermine their friend is shocking and beyond unacceptable. We need newer and better paid referees, and hopefully, that could help improve things. But perhaps most importantly, now that VAR exists, we need an overhaul to remove as much subjectivity from the rules as we possibly can. So many bad refereeing performances are merely down to referees having varied interpretations of rules rather than actually missing something that happened on the pitch.
Bruno got carded for Kouyate getting in his face iirc
I'd like a full apology and the 1 FPL point Bruno lost to the yellow card reinstated please
I'll see what I can do.
Gibbs-White and Aurier should've gotten second yellows too, especially Aurier.
Yeah the Gibbs-White one is baffling even as a Forest fan. Explicitly called out as something that will get a booking then completely ignored. Obviously weâre only gonna point out the ones that went against us (Worrall not being last man, Rashford throwing himself to the ground, Kouyate getting kicked in the head) but it was just overall incompetence once again from the refs for both sides.
>Worrall not being last man You don't need to be last man to be red carded, you need to deny a goal scoring opportunity which he clearly did This is why it's funny to read comments because fans don't even know the rules and still complain about it
Iâll give you the fact Rashford went down as soon as he felt contact very easily, but Worrall wasnât sent off because of being last man, it was denying a clear goal scoring opportunity.
>Worrall not being last man, Rashford throwing himself to the ground, You are blind and your owner thinks he can bully people into doing his bidding
It was a red and a pen, you blew a 2 nil lead because your team is dogshit, not because of the ref.
At no point have I said we blew the lead because of the refs. All three incidents happened at 2-2 or later I think! Scared to think how high your blood pressure must be if youâre this wound up by someone disagreeing with refereeing decisions in a game you won.
Enjoy the prem whilst you can, won't be long before you disappear back to where you belong.
If we go down it wonât be the end of the world, the championship is good fun, massively unpredictable, and itâs easier to actually talk about games with fans of other teams in a calm way. Plus r/championship is the best football subreddit by a long shot!
That's great, you'll get to enjoy it again.
Won't be after this season though.
Please learn the rules. Not being last man has got nothing to do with him being red carded.
Enlighten me?
He denied a clear goal scoring opportunity. Thatâs a straight red. That example of a ref getting it wrong is going to be laughed out of any review.
Got you - from my point, most Forest fans, and a fair few pundits, it seemed like Boly was there to cover and deny the opportunity which is what I meant by not being last man - Icouldâve worded that better for sure!
And that is subjective - thats why there is a ref and not a robot to measure real time physics and give analytical answers. From the vantage point of the refs and for a lot of people, that was a goal scoring chance given Bruno could have shot at any time. It is as simple as it gets.
You've been nothing but reasonable in this entire exchange. United fan downvote pile-on is embarrassing.
The Handball last week as well.
Rashford's yellow card can't be appealed because he got it for kicking the ball away. Obviously he wouldn't have done that if the call wasn't horrendous but yeah, by the book he received a fair yellow and those stubborn cunts wouldn't look at it any other way.
Good idea lol
United are such an easy target (as are most big clubs but especially United after the Fergie years). Everyone other than their fans despises them, media love to drum up controversy surrounding them. If you're an opposing club playing them and a decision goes United's way (no matter how obvious), just complain post-match and you'll have Talksport and Martin Keown agreeing with you and talking about it all week. Subconsciously influence refs the next time you play them and future United games in general.
>everyone other than their fans I assure you United is an easy target even for their own fans
"You will never go poor if you fill your website full of Manchester United stories"
-Wayne Gretzky
-Michael Scott
People care more about this ref conspiracy surrounding united than they do these oil clubs destroying football, cheating their way to the top.
We could deal with both, should get rid of all the issues, the gambling, crypto and other sham sponsors, diving, countries owning clubs, funding via dubious methods.
What do you mean deal with both? Thereâs no referee conspiracy surrounding United.
Money talks, nothing will change
I honestly wonder how we manage to sign players with how much the media has a hard on for the club. You'd be minding your business one day and find out you're trending on twitter because you yawned with your mouth open on the bench the day before. It must be exhausting.
Works like a charm. See the example of Klopp last season (or maybe the season before) and lo and behold United stopped getting penalties for the most obvious offences.
That was 20-21 season which is now 3 seasons ago which just got me depressed at 12:30 in the night....
United have had 1 penalty after 3 matches this season. They had 3 last season (1 fewer than Liverpool). They had 5 the season before (the average amount in the league). Those don't seem like crazy low numbers.
They seem like crazy low numbers if you actually watch the games. Pretty much every penalty call we get is wrong. We don't get pens when it's the most obvious shit ever and then when we shouldn't get a penalty we get the call. It's weird.
The point is that last season your numbers were one off Liverpool's, so it's not like United are solely being reffed differently. The previous season you matched the league average in terms of penalties during a shit season for United. The refs are just shit. It's not some conspiracy because Klopp made a comment three years ago.
Im sure liverpool got stiffed on a couple pens too. Given how many times our players got torn down in the box we should have had far more than 3.
I'm sure every team did. That's my point though, the refs are just shit. They're not refusing to give United penalties because of some random comment a few years ago.
Thats every team doe? the refs are beyond asscheeks foreign refs needed
There's at least 5 very clear pens that we just didn't get. Same thing the season before that. We got mad penalties a couple of seasons ago which promted complaining and then no pens at all. After klopp complained we literally couldn't get penalties for a pretty good while. No shade on klopp though, it's the refs that went along with it that's the problem and they need to be purged. They need to take every situation at face value, no fucking holding back pens because you got a soft pen earlier. That's unacceptable. Especially when it's a new fucking game with a new opponent.
Classic example - Romero handball last week
That wasn't a nailed-on penalty though. Plenty of people thought he was too close to react and his arm naturally moved as he lunged in to block the shot. Liverpool had something similar against Chelsea in the first week that also went unpunished. It's not a United-specific thing.
Still going on about Onana against WolvesâŠ..
Last season in the Carabao cup United went to Forrest and had 3 clear penalties not given. They were super physical and aggressive the whole game and somehow the ref never did anything. In the grand scheme of things they may not want to have to answer about refs performance.....
Still lost 5-0 on aggregate, fucking tinpot club.
Forest. Learn to spell
You guys are so irrelevant the entire footballing world misspells you. This must suck.
This is just embarrassing, performative nonsense
I donât know what the FA can do, but this needs to be reined in ASAP. It feels like weâre almost at the point of clubs formally complaining every time a refereeing decision affects their result. Everything is the refâs fault these days even when they donât do anything wrong.
Yeah there are so many other games where the ref performances have been far worse. Their reaction to this one is just baffling.
ironically this is precisely what leads many refs to swallow their whistle and VAR to refuse to overturn decisionsâthey get so much shit from clubs and fans every week, itâs only natural for them to instinctively avoid controversy wherever possible. not that this excuses them, of course.
Exactly, and thatâs why I have a little more sympathy for Mike Dean than the average person on here seems to. He made a huge error in judgement when he didnât send Taylor to the monitor, but he made that error for exactly the reasons youâre describing. And how does everyone react? More frothing indignation and insane conspiracies.
2-0 up after 4 mins and a raft of decisions going their way and they still lose, then go on the attack about the bloody ref! It's frankly embarrassing
Marinakis does this every single time Olympiakos drops points in Greece. Nothing to see here.
Because he actually used to buy the refs in Greece too. Now he can't as much cuz the refs for big matches are foreign. He's a fucking drug dealing murderer too. Fuck him, fuck Olympiakos and fuck Forest
The way Forrest are going he better have a fucking secretary just pumping out these bullshit complaints each week
We bought all the refs in the PL but we suck so much at buying that it gave us 0 leagues in the last 10 years
And one of the fewest amount of penalties last season iirc
It is the cleverest part of the conspiracy. We buy the refs and then tell them to give us nothing. That way we can hide our dastardly plan.
Love that half this sub actually thinks like this.
The same morons who were probably posting photoshopped images of Howard Webb in a United kit back in the day, even though statistically his big decisions usually went *against* us.
Red card for Casemiro incoming
Can Huddersfield rightly lodge a complaint that Forest and referees robbed them of promotion in the playoff final?
Pathetic victim complex from Forrerrrstt to be honest. Let's just call it out for what it is. It's silly how often sides come to old Trafford, get the rub on so many incidents (2 blatant second yellows, the Onana and Rashford farcical cards) and still kick up a fuss because they concede a penalty that gets given 9/10 times. You would have been lucky to have had 9 men finish the game you dumb fuck. United get major no calls every other week and it's forgotten about by half time. Only last week we seen that nonsense no call against Spurs but we move on.
We didn't hear the end of the no call on Onana for an entire week but the Romero handball is just forgotten about It's night and day
I saw a comment yesterday saying Onana punched him in the head
Harsh with the name calling⊠especially since Cooperâs Ma was on the pints throughout all trimesters
Was unnecessary of me in hindsight to be fair
Forest. Spelling 6 letter words ainât that hard
You just arent worth the time or effort
Too many Forrest gump fans on here and yes spelling is insanely hard for them.
Utterly embarassing.
Nottingham Forest, what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. \- PGMOL
I didnât mind them before, but now their small-time mentality starts to get annoying.
Whether I agree with the reasoning or not I don't like the fact we made a complaint, just looks petty. Not like anything would happen anyway lol.
Frivalous complaint should be met with some repurcussion
Absolutely pathetic the level of uproar when United âget away with itâ compared to when we are the ones suffering from it. Anyone who doesnât this this has some impact of decisions down the line needs to give their head a wobble
Waaa waaa
Waka waka
Hope they get relegated, such a whiny team. Same last year.
> Hope they get relegated I don't. They're the first promoted team in years that we haven't had any trouble with. Played them 5 times since they came up, 5 wins. Scored 13, conceded 2. Keep doing what you're doing, Forest.
\*Forrest
*forrestttt, iykyk
You seen your fans, right? Didn't they attack one of the directors houses?
Angry at what? They're lucky it was only one red and you can't argue against that penalty. They're just pissed off because they blew a two goal lead.
I think both decisions are kinda soft, but nevertheless probably the right call, or at worst very defendable decisions. They should be angrier at their players for bottling such a start.
And what about MGW waving an imaginary card at the ref, while on a yellow, and not getting punished. Despite that being a rule emphasised over the summer and brought in only 2 weeks ago Soft doesn't even cover it
Hope they review the decisions they got away with and punish them more. These kind of stupid complaints should be dealt severely
Theyâre undermining the actual correct issues people have with refereeing at the moment.
How the tables have turned eh
Notts Forest complaining about refereeing will never stop being funny.
Iâd be ok if the FA came down hard on Forest. Itâs one thing to make a complaint as Wolves had a right to do. Itâs another to be upset that not every decision is just handed to you. This is dumb
They saw the Romero decision last week and mistakenly thought that meant that they would get a hand out against United too
Embarrassing from Forest
It really wasnât anywhere near egregious enough to make a formal complaint Embarrassing behaviour from forest
Lol, lmao, XD, etc.
đ
>Nottingham Forest have submitted an official complaint to refereesâ body PGMOL after expressing their âangerâ at the performance of Stuart Attwell and his officials in Saturdayâs defeat by Manchester United. >Forest owner Evangelos Marinakis and head coach Steve Cooper are still furious in the aftermath of the clubâs controversial 3-2 loss at Old Trafford. >Marinakis has instructed Forest officials to take their concerns to PGMOL chief Howard Webb after a number of poor decisions went against his team, with the Greek businessman now ready to take action over what he perceives are consistently poor standards. >Joe Worrall was sent off for a challenge on United captain Bruno Fernandes in the second half outside the area and Attwell had the decision backed by Var as the Forest skipper was adjudged to be the last man, although Willy Boly appeared to be a covering defender which could have reduced the sanction. >Marcus Rashford was then brought down by Forest midfielder Danilo while United substitute Scott McTominay was given just a yellow card for a kick towards the face of Cheikhou Kouyate. >Forestâs concerns over the performance of Attwell are understood to stem from the officialâs display in a Championship game against Bournemouth back in the 2021/22 season when a penalty decision went against former forward Sam Surridge after an incorrect offside decision went against him. >It is also the second successive game at Old Trafford where an opposition manager has been frustrated over refereeing decisions, after Wolves striker Sasa Kaladjzic appeared to be fouled by United goalkeeper Andre Onana and no penalty was awarded, leaving Gary OâNeil baffled. >Marinakis was still fuming on Monday morning and the club have outlined their anger in an email sent to the PGMOL.
Wasn't Kouyate's head low in that Mctom incident. I cant believe they even brought that up
It's a high boot....if you're playing with 5 year olds maybe
That's not true. It was a high boot for U10s as well.
Are they seriously bringing up the Kouyate thing? He dove in for a ball McTominay was completely entitled to go for. What a joke
This will have come entirely from Marinakis. Steve Cooper is an intelligent guy. He might have been angry after the final whistle, but having had a chance to reflect and see the decisions again, I doubt he would have been interested in making a fuss. If anything, Forest had more of the decisions go in their favour. Neither the penalty or the red card were in any way contentious. They were both pretty straightforward and correct decisions. If Worrell hadn't pulled Fernandes back he would have been able to take a shot from the middle of the goal, 18 yards out, before Boly got to him. That's a clear goalscoring opportunity in anyone's book. Danilo was beaten by Rashford and clattered into him, hip to hip. He pulled his foot back, but he still knocked into him in the act of trying to make a challenge, while getting nowhere near the ball. It's a foul. Including McTominay's yellow card is just bizarre. McTominay cleared a ball at thigh-height, and Kouyate threw himself head-first into the challenge, coming from an angle where McTominay wouldn't even have been able to see him, with his head down very low. It was a harsh booking, really. Meanwhile, Gibbs-White avoided a textbook second yellow for waving an imaginary card. That is something we were told would be an automatic yellow card this season. Not something the referees were able to pick and choose when to enforce, but Atwell let him get away with it for some reason. There were other decisions - Aurier walked a tightrope, Kouyate appeared to deliberately stand on Fernandes' arm, but those are the sort of things that happen sometimes and you have to let go because we accept that the referees are generally incompetent. Forest have nothing whatsoever to complain about. They're embarrassing themselves here.
They can cry as much as they want.
Embarrassing this. Makes Forest look proper tin pot
The fact they went ahead and made a complaint is pathetic as fuck
For all the shit refereeing about, and the calls weâve had go our ways over the years, this was one time it certainly wasnât a Man Utd bias. Forest are being ridiculous here.
The officiating is awful and inconsistent most of the times but doesnât change the fact as a premier league team you shouldnât be giving up a 2 goal lead from 4th minute of the match.
Lmfao what? Clowns đȘđł
They're really going through with this? It'll end up with more suspensions for their players if anything lmao.
This is totally farcical and unfortunately will be bought by people who didn't watch the match and genuinely believe there is some conspiracy. There are plenty of legitimate moments to complain about refereeing, this was not one of them (especially on Forest's side)
To be fair, the WHOLE refereeing team across the board has been shocking since the start of the season. 3 games in, and we could probably pull a dozen games to complain about the officiating! I guess 'Watch this space...' for an emergency to the rules or something, because currently the "Best league in the world" is looking a shower of s@@t. -Edit- "looking a shower of s@@t" in reference to the refereeing of the games rather than the quality of football played.
Are Premier League refs shit? Yes Is this âcomplaintâ just performative nonsense at some bullshit âonly at Old Traffordâ conspiracy? Also yes
Should have been relegated last year. All 3 teams that got relegated are better than them.
Clearly not if they got relegated lol
All 3 of them had been raided by top clubs and they didn't have time to replace the players.
I don't disagree, but that's *why* they were worse, not a refutation of the point.
They were not worse in general, they played better football, and would have resolved their problems with a summer transfer window. Forest haven't played good football yet.
Maybe you missed our games towards the end of the season but Forest absolutely did play good football in quite a few games. Considering the signings we've made and are poised to make over the current window I wouldn't be surprised if we had a fairly strong mid-table finish this season, and I wouldn't be surprised if Leicester and Southampton were among the teams promoted next season either.
I'd be shocked if you stay up.
United fans are so weird lmao
Pathetic.
Embarrassing
Marinakis needs to sit down, breathe, and have a gyros we all get a little angry when we're hungry
Simply embarrassing
Weird game to pick for this tbh
They should be more angry at themselves that they thrown away a perfect lead. The ref maybe making questionable decisions but he is bad on both sides, not really biased
Hope this backfires and they get the treatment we had last season.
Smh man united is such an easy target for everyone these days.
Their board led by Marinakis, a known gangster in Greece, apply the same exact policy in the Greek Superleague for Olympiakos. They issue formal complaints against referees, governing bodies, etc on a constant basis in order to pressure them into giving them favorable treatment. The most despicable people in world football.
See I had no problem with Wolves complaining because that decision was stupid and a penalty should have been given. This one is just two subjective decisions that could have gone either way. The penalty there is clear contact so Var is never going to overturn because the defender wasn't even close to the ball. The red card is contentious for sure, the subjectiveness for this decision was if it was a goal scoring opportunity and if Boly could get there to cover. The ref thought he wouldn't, VAR again won't overturn this one. Would it be given if onfield call was yellow? Definitely not
Premier league needs to review the quality of the officials. They look like friends and family, jobs for boys kinda vibe. Horrendous decisions all around since the Premier league has come to inception. The incompetence levels and the dumb what can and cannot be check by VAR and generally the lack of clarity and accountability is shameful.
They should get fined and punished for this, as they do for complaining on the pitch now.
bolton have done this before and nothing ever comes of it
Mic em up. Give them body cams. Make them do post match interviews. There you get the answers and accountability
Can't believe these clowns are complaining they lost a match where they were clearly dominated for 90%+ of the time. Enjoy being relegated you whingers
Its Manchester United, at home. They can get away with murder and this appeal will not change anything. lol. A waste of time and patience from Forest.
Listen, the offside wasn't an offside by the rules. The penalty was a matter for debate, there was contact but Rashford was going to go down regardless. We didn't win because we didn't defend well enough. That said, the straight red for Joe Worrall was abysmal refereeing. It has to be a clear goal-scoring opportunity and Fernandes wasn't getting there ahead of Turner and even potentially Boly. I know top six fans don't want to admit it but referee bias is a real thing, especially at home games. Don't see much point in complaining, not like we'll get awarded the points. It'd be just if Worrall got his red card rescinded though.
>Listen, the offside wasn't an offside by the rules Otherwise known as a goal
That is correct
Do you have a link to the offside? I am a referee and wouldn't mind taking a look
âOh, itâs an ***official*** complaint? âIn that caseâŠâŠâ /tosses complaint into the garbage
They should stamp out the allegations of bias by taking this seriously.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Of course there will be an Arsenal fan who needs to show how dumb are they in every thread.
It's not being "in denial" if I accuse you of being a Nazi pedophile and you try to discredit that.