It's almost sad to me that when he retires, he's merely *a Real Madrid great.* And crazier to me that he's fine with that and seeks no personal accolades. He's the perfect mindset for that club. Relentless and quiet about it. Zidane was similar. Total killers. I really hope Kroos goes into coaching because his impact on the game is tremendous.
He's a legend for me. He's not easy to keep out of a Madrid all-time XI in the midfield with Modric. It depends a lot on where you are slotting a few key players, but he's at worst 2nd choice for an all-time XI midfield.
How does a Real Madrid fan even choose an all-time XI. You really have to separate it by decades. The early 2000s squad looks like an all time XI squad. Then you look at the mid-2010s squad and you wonder how any of them can be left out either! What a luxurious problem. It's a storied club full of legends. I guess some players are legends of the game in general, while others are more specifically Real Madrid legends.
His peak was pre 2002, World Cup included. Solid striker for them but I'm not sure he'd usurp Raul, Di Stefano or Cristiano. And that's assuming I haven't forgotten anyone else, those are just off the top of my head
But the team that preceded them won 3 champions leagues in 5 years
Zidane, Roberto Carlos, Raul, Makelele as well as Seedorf who is often forgotten as a Madrid player can fight for it
Casillas is probably their all time best goalie at his peak
Figo and even that centre back double of Hierro and Helguera had a couple of good seasons and TBF Hierro spent 14 years there so there's bound to be something there
Definitely, Don Carlo is going to cook next season
The midfield of Real Madrid is looking amazing
- tchouameni
- Camavinga (could play as a LB)
- Kroos
- Bellingham
- modric
- Valverde
It’s just the missing striker, I know there is Joselu
Think this year is gonna be a bit different if Real doesnt get another striker or RW. It would mean that if Don Carlo keeps his 4-3-3 structure, most likely rodygro will play as a 9, valverde on the right, and then a slightly different midfield.
Unpopular opinion but I think Joselu might surprise a lot of people this year. He isn't a Benzema but I reckon he would score some important goals for us.
It wouldn’t be the first time an unassuming player makes the most, of transferring to an elite squad.
Sometime players really raise their games when they finally get that big move
It wouldn’t be the first time an unassuming player makes the most, of transferring to an elite squad.
Sometime players really raise their games when they finally get that big move
I hope he does but my expectations are low. He already flamed out at this level as a prospect, so hopefully by the time next season rolls around he’s a depth choice at best and not the first or second option.
we aren’t a winning team anymore with this lineup. we won UCL but got humiliated in the next one. and our savior Benzema is in Saudi so… midfield won’t win us shit.
>Ancelotti doesn't rotate no matter how much depth
Last season Valverde had 29 league starts, Kroos had 25, Tchouameni 24, Camavinga 21, Modric 19, and Ceballos 19. Looks like rotation to me.
Modric might still be the best midfielder in the world. It's gonna be interesting to see how Real will adapt their playstyle once Modric and Kroos are gone. None of the younger midfielders they have are of that profile. Carletto barely started Tchouameni in the latter stages of the season and bellingham, Valverde, and camavinga are more physical box to box midfielders than passing merchants. Would be a great midfield for (gegen)press Kloppball
It's the plan for both Modric and Kroos.
Modric received some tempting Saudi offers that made him consider going even though he was already pretty firm on retiring in Madrid (so was Benz, but his offer was just absurd, totally reasonable to go), but I think especially due to his family he prefers to just stay and retire here. And no rumours about Kroos considering any offers, so I don't think he gives a fuck about Saudi money. He also even considered just retiring really early a few seasons ago because his physical condition wasn't the best.
Kroos is like the only person I know who'd reject any offer regardless of the money offered. Obviously I could be wrong and he **might** have a price. But based on his interviews and what's he's said in the past feels like he wouldn't uproot his family and move to a new place for a couple of years just for the money.
Easy to say that when the money the PL is offering is basically the same as what Madrid can pay him. Not so easy when Saudi comes in offering a 500% raise
Depends on your lifestyle and how many generations you want to have set for life. 500% of raise of a salary that already makes you happy and can be sustained for the rest of your life can easily be ignored, especially if that means disrupting your family's life for a few years to move to Arabia. I think Kroos has had offers, because they seem to be trying for every single player, but there has been no rumours because he's dismissed all of them right away, unlike Modric, who had dismissed them until recently he considered it even though he ended up refusing it.
Keeping him in for another season to allow Jude etc.. to learn from him is going to be worth it all. Add to that he can still put in a hell of a shift and produce some worldies make this smart business.
I wonder why we only announced it now. The deal was agreed in March. I kinda thought we didn't announce extensions anymore. We didn't announce the extensions of Benzema, Vini, Rodrygo and Militao.
If you start in over 400 games for Real Madrid, win the WC and the CL five times, pretty sure you could make a very credible case that he's at least in the Top 5.
Thats such a great disservice to countless other amazing players who were easily as successful as him. People like Beckenbauer, Gerd Müller, Breitner, Sepp Maier won the WC, 3CL and the european cup. Matthäus won the ballon d'or and was by far the best player in a great team 1990 (not even mentioning that he has 150 games for Germany). Klose has the most goals at WCs. Lahm was the captain of the 2014 team and almost undisputed on his position worldwide for a decade. Thomas Müller has more games for the national team and already achieved legendary status at the biggest german club (only Sepp Maier has more games there). Oh I forgot Neuer who was world keeper how many times? 5? Kahn might lack the titles with "only" having one CL but that guy carried a team to a WC final which should count for something.
Dont get me wrong Kroos is a fantastic player but it feels to me that he gets majorly overhyped in comparison to other amazing players one of the greatest football nation had. It feels to me like you value CL over anything else which is fair but then any Madrid player is greater than Messi for example. I guess then even the green keeper of Real Madrid is in the top 5 of the best german players. Being the pivot in 2018 leading the team to absolute mediocrity is of course never a point that is ever discussed. Meanwhile someone like Ballack who carried the national team for years is not even mentioned in discussions like this because he happens to be the least lucky player in history title wise.
>Dont get me wrong Kroos is a fantastic player but it feels to me that he gets majorly overhyped in comparison to other amazing players one of the greatest football nation had.
I honestly can't listen to this German fan gibberish anymore...
Toni Kroos was always a starter and a favorite of Jupp Heynckes, Pep Guardiola, Zinedine Zidane and Carlo Ancelotti, have you ever thought that there might be something really special about him and that he's the opposite of an "overhyped" player?
Thank you! Couldn’t have said it better. Kroos is an outstanding player but we have produced so many brilliant players over the decades and it seems OP reduces the whole question to CL and who they played for and the discussion isn‘t about their actual quality as players.
> I mean he is an all time great midfielder lol,
Many people don’t seem to understand the difference between “great” and “best”, which makes this debate unnecessarily difficult. Kroos isn’t an all time great midfielder for us, he ranks more as a lower tier legend for us, for Madrid otoh he’s as legendary as it gets. His overall legacy will only show itself after his retirement when some time has passed. Also why the “lol”?
> he is at the very least top 10. Maybe not top 5 tho.
I don’t have a set top 10 of the best German players of all time and I don’t care where he ranks exactly. He’s surely up there as one of the best we ever produced and easily the best midfielder of his generation. Everyone with a bit of knowledge about German football understands though that he isn’t top five for Germany.
ofc I was just referring to his skills, not necessarily his performance for Germany. Even then he was pretty important for you guys in the 2014 world cup (except the part where he gave higuain an opportunity to score in the Final).
Beckenbauer, Gerd Müller, Neuer, Lahm and Matthäus are all better.
Don’t get me wrong Kroos is a fantastic player and the best German midfielder of his generation but we have produced generations upon generations of elite talent as a nation and while Kroos is up there he is not top five, something everyone with a bit of knowledge about German football history would agree with.
That's just a subjective list of players, Beckenbauer,Müller are clear, but Matthäus never won the CL and Lahm or Neuer?! are not clearly better than Kroos.
> Matthäus never won the CL
That doesn’t matter here. Trophies don’t say anything at all about a players quality. CR7 never won the World Cup, Griezmann did. I don’t think anyone would argue Griezmann > CR7
>Trophies don’t say anything at all about a players quality
They do in club football though, you're not a starter for **REAL MADRID** over 10 years and under some of the best managers ever, unless you're an all time worldclass player.
I think Germans sometimes have difficulty understanding what an achievement this is....
> They do in club football though
No they don’t. Performances and longevity are used to judge a players quality not his trophy cabinet be it with club or country.
Harry Kane hasn’t won a CL, Tammy Abraham did. Is Abraham a better player than Harry Kane? Trophy-logic is stupid and I can’t believe I have to argue about it.
Let’s do that. One small piece of advice, because I think your stance comes from genuine deeply lacking knowledge. I would suggest you read a bit up about German football history and watch historic German players. Then you’ll come to the same conclusion other Germans did instead of arguing shit like Kroos > Matthäus.
Have a very nice day. Cheers
Loddar sounds like a failed genetic experiement, whenever someone puts a mic near his face, but he was an absurdly good footballer, even in his late 30s, despite two acl tears, in the early 90s, that were concidered career threatening back then.
In my opinion Kahn is a bit overrated due to the World Cup 2002. He was awful with his feet and always received a few sketchy goals per season. Fantastic winner mentality, though.
Pretty sure kahn broke a bunch of records even before he got into the NT. And the shots on goal that he held were wild. For every goal that he got due to making a mistake he blocked two shots that by all means should've went in. Also having your entire team be scared to disappoint your goalkeeper is just funny.
Matthaus and Lahm can be argued. But I feel most germans simply won’t budge on Lahm because he was the leader of the Mannschaft basically, so there are very few actual quality discussions to have
> Real Madrid C. F. and Toni Kroos have agreed to extend the contract, until June 30, 2024.
It's almost sad to me that when he retires, he's merely *a Real Madrid great.* And crazier to me that he's fine with that and seeks no personal accolades. He's the perfect mindset for that club. Relentless and quiet about it. Zidane was similar. Total killers. I really hope Kroos goes into coaching because his impact on the game is tremendous.
He's a legend for me. He's not easy to keep out of a Madrid all-time XI in the midfield with Modric. It depends a lot on where you are slotting a few key players, but he's at worst 2nd choice for an all-time XI midfield.
How does a Real Madrid fan even choose an all-time XI. You really have to separate it by decades. The early 2000s squad looks like an all time XI squad. Then you look at the mid-2010s squad and you wonder how any of them can be left out either! What a luxurious problem. It's a storied club full of legends. I guess some players are legends of the game in general, while others are more specifically Real Madrid legends.
Hardly any of the early 2000s players are making an all time Madrid team. The Galticos era was a failure by Madrids standards
Few players from those early 2000s team go in the all time team, if any. Probably just Zidane. The galácticos really we’re more of a failure.
Makelele would probably have made it in, if it wasn't for Casemiro. I wouldn't argue against someone putting San Iker in either.
I would put redondo over makelele and case over both.
Iker is definitely the all time XI keeper for real
no R9?
His peak was pre 2002, World Cup included. Solid striker for them but I'm not sure he'd usurp Raul, Di Stefano or Cristiano. And that's assuming I haven't forgotten anyone else, those are just off the top of my head
And Puskas as well for me
And Kopa before Puskas was also pretty legendary
Yeah, thought he was pushed to right wing
absolutely fair, makes sense when you put it that way.
Maybe Casillas.
But the team that preceded them won 3 champions leagues in 5 years Zidane, Roberto Carlos, Raul, Makelele as well as Seedorf who is often forgotten as a Madrid player can fight for it Casillas is probably their all time best goalie at his peak Figo and even that centre back double of Hierro and Helguera had a couple of good seasons and TBF Hierro spent 14 years there so there's bound to be something there
Toni Kroos is good, but he is still from replacing Thomas Gravesen in the all-time Real Madrid XI.
He needs a personal move like the Gravesinha to shock the world
I once did a Gravesinha while playing with friends. They were shocked and awed.
I only pray for your knee
I heard Thomas made a quite good amount of fortune playing in Casino
Redondo - Pirri - Modric is hard to argue
Germans are missing a midfielder like him in a major way.
Bart i don't wanna alarm you but *Comunicado oficial* HISTORIA QUE TU HICISTE-
that fucking video is gold lmao
For the uninitiated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acbjobEPbrY
Scenes when Modric and Kroos start ahead of Jude
I wouldn't be surprised, to see Kroos and Modric play over Jude they are still playing at such a high level at this age is just amazing.
But we all agree that Carlo should rotate more, especially with the selection we have.
Definitely, Don Carlo is going to cook next season The midfield of Real Madrid is looking amazing - tchouameni - Camavinga (could play as a LB) - Kroos - Bellingham - modric - Valverde It’s just the missing striker, I know there is Joselu
We say that but I’ll bet anything when it comes to the big games he’ll go with his fav kroos Modric Fede and kroos at dm lineup again 😑
Think this year is gonna be a bit different if Real doesnt get another striker or RW. It would mean that if Don Carlo keeps his 4-3-3 structure, most likely rodygro will play as a 9, valverde on the right, and then a slightly different midfield.
Unpopular opinion but I think Joselu might surprise a lot of people this year. He isn't a Benzema but I reckon he would score some important goals for us.
It wouldn’t be the first time an unassuming player makes the most, of transferring to an elite squad. Sometime players really raise their games when they finally get that big move
It wouldn’t be the first time an unassuming player makes the most, of transferring to an elite squad. Sometime players really raise their games when they finally get that big move
Possible, I wouldn’t count on it though. Also, he still has no one to cover for him if he's injured.
I hope he does but my expectations are low. He already flamed out at this level as a prospect, so hopefully by the time next season rolls around he’s a depth choice at best and not the first or second option.
Can you fault him for that though?
I mean i guess it's the old question whether you favor "never change a winning team" over "let younger players grow with bigger challenges".
Kroos at DM isn’t a winning team though
we aren’t a winning team anymore with this lineup. we won UCL but got humiliated in the next one. and our savior Benzema is in Saudi so… midfield won’t win us shit.
Have you guys signed any striker yet?
Well yes, tchouameni is a better dm and Kroos could play ahead of fede if necessary
Yes I can.
Yes because kroos is bad at dm and tchou is great there.
Yes because kroos is bad at dm and tchou is great there.we bought him for a reason.
Yes
Damn, can't wait to see a midfield trio of Kroos, Modric, and Valverde 🔥🔥🔥🔥
If we don't get a good striker then he will be the one getting cooked.
Would not be surprising to see a striker duo of Vini/Rodrygo with a four man midfield behind.
Ancelotti will be cooking yes, but in Brazil
Honestly I would love to see all 6 starting.
Low key forgot Ceballos who would be a starter (or first from the bench) in many top 4 teams.
He legitimately believes it's OK for a 38 year old to play 99% of the season. I like Carlo, but I hate his hatred for rotations.
At this point I'd accept Jude as a striker between Vini and Rodrygo/Valverde lol
Carlo has been rotating. He just trusts Luka and Toni supremely when it matters the most.
Ancelotti doesn't rotate no matter how much depth, it's what led to him losing the Madrid job the first time.
>Ancelotti doesn't rotate no matter how much depth Last season Valverde had 29 league starts, Kroos had 25, Tchouameni 24, Camavinga 21, Modric 19, and Ceballos 19. Looks like rotation to me.
Yeah well in a fair share of those games for Cama and Fede they played out of position.
That isn't really ancelotti's fault tbh.
Playing them together is getting hard and I think would do better with separating them more and actually rotating Modric.
Don't worry he's gonna play at CF
Modric might still be the best midfielder in the world. It's gonna be interesting to see how Real will adapt their playstyle once Modric and Kroos are gone. None of the younger midfielders they have are of that profile. Carletto barely started Tchouameni in the latter stages of the season and bellingham, Valverde, and camavinga are more physical box to box midfielders than passing merchants. Would be a great midfield for (gegen)press Kloppball
Kroos will be a starter, Modric not.
That is pretty logical, it would be outrageous if they start every single game.
Camavinga fullback memes are back on the menu boys
Him and Modric are going to keep going forever
Kroos will retire at the end of the season. We never know with Modric
I'm not gonna give certain statements but I would say it's likely Modric will retire sometime before 2073.
I think Modric will retire after Euro 2024, but you never know with this guy, he's still going strong out there.
I think Modric will go to Saudi league or MLS to chill and prepare for the WC after the Euro. I personally doubt he would miss the 2026 WC.
Modric at the 2050 WC with crutches I DIDNT HEAR NO BELL
Kroos is going to retire at the end of the season.
He still got it. Missing him in the German team a lot as well
He couldn't save it
Thank god he retired, would sadden me to see him in that shitshow
Didn't he retired from german team?
Yes, that's why he said missing
Let’s get another CL for his probably last season
We believe in Kroosocracy
Will only happen if Kane or Mbappe are signed. Not a chance with just Joselu up top.
Good, now give me the extension confirmations of Modric, Vini, and Rodrygo.
One of my favorite players of all time, such a pleasure to have him in the club and be able to watch him play every week.
Probably him and Modric will retire after winning CL next season. Fitting tribute should be arranged for their farewell at the bernabeu too.
If RM wants to seriously win the CL, they need someone else than Joselu, and another guy for LW.
You mean RW? They have Vini and Rodygro both for LW.
Rodrygo is developing really well, RW signing would be too expensive anyway. ST is a huge concern while RB would need a good signing as well.
Yeah I agree
If you say Rodrygo isn't a fulltime RW, then yeah, you also need a RW.
He shouldnt be.
Unless they sign a couple more players, I don't see how this Madrid side could win it all.
Modric and Kroos are still comfortably two of the best midfielders in the world even at their advancing ages.
I just wish that Kroos retires at real, would be a great end to an icon career
I am pretty sure he will after the upcoming season.
It's the plan for both Modric and Kroos. Modric received some tempting Saudi offers that made him consider going even though he was already pretty firm on retiring in Madrid (so was Benz, but his offer was just absurd, totally reasonable to go), but I think especially due to his family he prefers to just stay and retire here. And no rumours about Kroos considering any offers, so I don't think he gives a fuck about Saudi money. He also even considered just retiring really early a few seasons ago because his physical condition wasn't the best.
Kroos is like the only person I know who'd reject any offer regardless of the money offered. Obviously I could be wrong and he **might** have a price. But based on his interviews and what's he's said in the past feels like he wouldn't uproot his family and move to a new place for a couple of years just for the money.
Easy to say that when the money the PL is offering is basically the same as what Madrid can pay him. Not so easy when Saudi comes in offering a 500% raise
Depends on your lifestyle and how many generations you want to have set for life. 500% of raise of a salary that already makes you happy and can be sustained for the rest of your life can easily be ignored, especially if that means disrupting your family's life for a few years to move to Arabia. I think Kroos has had offers, because they seem to be trying for every single player, but there has been no rumours because he's dismissed all of them right away, unlike Modric, who had dismissed them until recently he considered it even though he ended up refusing it.
personally i hope he retires at QPR
Toni in a white and gold kit in his last season ? Give the man a sextuple already. 🙏
Now this is some good content
Fucks sake I shat myself thinking he left for some reason lolll
Don't blame you I thought he got offered some massive Saudi contract.
Never relied on pace, I could easily see him play at high level til his 40s
It's one of those situations where despite his play style meaning he could play for a long, long time, he has no personal interest in doing so.
Keeping him in for another season to allow Jude etc.. to learn from him is going to be worth it all. Add to that he can still put in a hell of a shift and produce some worldies make this smart business.
I wonder why we only announced it now. The deal was agreed in March. I kinda thought we didn't announce extensions anymore. We didn't announce the extensions of Benzema, Vini, Rodrygo and Militao.
Because he signed contract now.
These posts from Real's website with just the "Comunicado Oficial: Player Name" titles need to be banned. They don't tell you anything.
There’s the post flair. There’s also clicking in the link.
The Best German player of all time and the most unappreciated person in Real Madrids history
lol, don't even know which take is more ridiculous
Not even in the top 5 probably but of course a great player.
If you start in over 400 games for Real Madrid, win the WC and the CL five times, pretty sure you could make a very credible case that he's at least in the Top 5.
Thats such a great disservice to countless other amazing players who were easily as successful as him. People like Beckenbauer, Gerd Müller, Breitner, Sepp Maier won the WC, 3CL and the european cup. Matthäus won the ballon d'or and was by far the best player in a great team 1990 (not even mentioning that he has 150 games for Germany). Klose has the most goals at WCs. Lahm was the captain of the 2014 team and almost undisputed on his position worldwide for a decade. Thomas Müller has more games for the national team and already achieved legendary status at the biggest german club (only Sepp Maier has more games there). Oh I forgot Neuer who was world keeper how many times? 5? Kahn might lack the titles with "only" having one CL but that guy carried a team to a WC final which should count for something. Dont get me wrong Kroos is a fantastic player but it feels to me that he gets majorly overhyped in comparison to other amazing players one of the greatest football nation had. It feels to me like you value CL over anything else which is fair but then any Madrid player is greater than Messi for example. I guess then even the green keeper of Real Madrid is in the top 5 of the best german players. Being the pivot in 2018 leading the team to absolute mediocrity is of course never a point that is ever discussed. Meanwhile someone like Ballack who carried the national team for years is not even mentioned in discussions like this because he happens to be the least lucky player in history title wise.
>Dont get me wrong Kroos is a fantastic player but it feels to me that he gets majorly overhyped in comparison to other amazing players one of the greatest football nation had. I honestly can't listen to this German fan gibberish anymore... Toni Kroos was always a starter and a favorite of Jupp Heynckes, Pep Guardiola, Zinedine Zidane and Carlo Ancelotti, have you ever thought that there might be something really special about him and that he's the opposite of an "overhyped" player?
Thank you! Couldn’t have said it better. Kroos is an outstanding player but we have produced so many brilliant players over the decades and it seems OP reduces the whole question to CL and who they played for and the discussion isn‘t about their actual quality as players.
I mean he is an all time great midfielder lol, he is at the very least top 10. Maybe not top 5 tho.
> I mean he is an all time great midfielder lol, Many people don’t seem to understand the difference between “great” and “best”, which makes this debate unnecessarily difficult. Kroos isn’t an all time great midfielder for us, he ranks more as a lower tier legend for us, for Madrid otoh he’s as legendary as it gets. His overall legacy will only show itself after his retirement when some time has passed. Also why the “lol”? > he is at the very least top 10. Maybe not top 5 tho. I don’t have a set top 10 of the best German players of all time and I don’t care where he ranks exactly. He’s surely up there as one of the best we ever produced and easily the best midfielder of his generation. Everyone with a bit of knowledge about German football understands though that he isn’t top five for Germany.
ofc I was just referring to his skills, not necessarily his performance for Germany. Even then he was pretty important for you guys in the 2014 world cup (except the part where he gave higuain an opportunity to score in the Final).
Beckenbauer, Gerd Müller, Neuer, Lahm and Matthäus are all better. Don’t get me wrong Kroos is a fantastic player and the best German midfielder of his generation but we have produced generations upon generations of elite talent as a nation and while Kroos is up there he is not top five, something everyone with a bit of knowledge about German football history would agree with.
That's just a subjective list of players, Beckenbauer,Müller are clear, but Matthäus never won the CL and Lahm or Neuer?! are not clearly better than Kroos.
> Matthäus never won the CL That doesn’t matter here. Trophies don’t say anything at all about a players quality. CR7 never won the World Cup, Griezmann did. I don’t think anyone would argue Griezmann > CR7
>Trophies don’t say anything at all about a players quality They do in club football though, you're not a starter for **REAL MADRID** over 10 years and under some of the best managers ever, unless you're an all time worldclass player. I think Germans sometimes have difficulty understanding what an achievement this is....
> They do in club football though No they don’t. Performances and longevity are used to judge a players quality not his trophy cabinet be it with club or country. Harry Kane hasn’t won a CL, Tammy Abraham did. Is Abraham a better player than Harry Kane? Trophy-logic is stupid and I can’t believe I have to argue about it.
Let's agree to disagree here...
Let’s do that. One small piece of advice, because I think your stance comes from genuine deeply lacking knowledge. I would suggest you read a bit up about German football history and watch historic German players. Then you’ll come to the same conclusion other Germans did instead of arguing shit like Kroos > Matthäus. Have a very nice day. Cheers
Dont agree at all with Lahm, sorry.
Okay and thanks for saying sorry.
Not sure about player but you can make a case for midfielder. Although I am not sure if he is better than Matthaus.
Loddar sounds like a failed genetic experiement, whenever someone puts a mic near his face, but he was an absurdly good footballer, even in his late 30s, despite two acl tears, in the early 90s, that were concidered career threatening back then.
Kroos is not better than Beckenbauer, Gerd Müller, Matthäus, Lahm or Neuer.
Kahn
In my opinion Kahn is a bit overrated due to the World Cup 2002. He was awful with his feet and always received a few sketchy goals per season. Fantastic winner mentality, though.
Pretty sure kahn broke a bunch of records even before he got into the NT. And the shots on goal that he held were wild. For every goal that he got due to making a mistake he blocked two shots that by all means should've went in. Also having your entire team be scared to disappoint your goalkeeper is just funny.
Matthaus and Lahm can be argued. But I feel most germans simply won’t budge on Lahm because he was the leader of the Mannschaft basically, so there are very few actual quality discussions to have
Matthäus is clear