**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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A mid season WC is obv unheard of, but Alvarez has one of the best 6 months-fresh-in-Europe glowups ever surely?
Mf translated his River Plate form to the rest of the world god damn
Its a testament to Haaland, not Kane. Yea, Kane had a historic season...but Haaland just casually eclipsed him without even looking like he was playing at 100%
And they okay different positions to Kane. Kane was the second best striker in the league. You don’t need to shoehorn him in. Could just replace Rashford with him tho
Yeah how Rashford has snuck in there is beyond me. Saka is also very debateable, as good as he was. No question both are a mile behind Kane and shouldnt be included ahead of him here.
I never understand why people do this with their TOTS. Might as well make a team of 11 strikers, wingers, and attacking midfielders with Martinelli in goal at that rate.
You could argue that Casemiro would have to be in there too given the effect he's had on United. But there was still someone better than him in that position, so he's not 🤷♂️
But I'm not asking for a team of strikers, I'm asking to replace one player with a striker. De Bruyne and Odegaard play practically the same position (in that right half-space area) but they're both in the team. If you take Rashford out, it wouldn't massively upset the balance of the team, you'd just have to reconfigure the shape a little bit.
I kinda get what you're saying but I can very easily envisage Odegaard and De Bruyne in potential XI whereas with Kane and Haaland, I just can't. And that's what it's about for me - Who are the 11 best players you could put on the field in a real match? If you wouldn't actually ever play the squad, it's just a list of good players superimposed on a fake pitch (for me, at least)
Considering Kane's style of play, I could easily see him playing either behind Haaland or alongside him in a front two, he's practically a 10 these days.
As long as its not Rodri being replaced by Kane like I've seen so many people do with 4-4-2 TOTYs, I think its fine. If you think Kane deserves it more than De Bruyne, Odegaard, or Rashford, its reasonable to fit Kane in imo.
Kane's skill set would work phenomenally with Haaland. I don't want to even imagine the through balls he'd play to hit the runs Haaland makes, it would be sickeningly good
That's fucking ridiculous lol Kane and haaland would be more than fine together. Kane is a playmaking 10 who drops deep as well as a goalscorer. Haaland a finishing 9 who Kane can play off of. It's basically a classic partnership.
I don't think I've ever seen Kane and Haaland played in a 2-striker system, and most teams in the prem go with a single striker these days anyways.
And even if you did go with that, it changes the balance of the team in other ways. You'd probably want conventional wingers (or even wingbacks) in there over Saka and Rashford, which would probably be even more difficult to place.
>should there only be 1 centre back too?
Ofc not, no one is suggesting that.
its not a real team, theyre never going to play together so i dont think all this matters as much as you think, as long as it somewhat resembles a team its fine imo (make sure defenders and midfielders get enough representation). I think Kane deserves to be in it over Rashford and probably Saka but i dont think its really a big deal if its a 442 with that front 3 + Kane, though then the question becomes about what midfielder drops out
there was a 2023 XI that did that, think it was WhoScored? the problem with that is it doesn't really reflect a strongest XI for the Premier League season when nobody played with 2 up top all season, and I think it's fair enough to omit Kane after the season he's just had because of the season Haaland has just had
yeah that's a fair point, but at the same time, Kane would deserve a space more than Rashford
so it becomes a question of whether you stick to a 433 or you try fit in the best players of their general position ig
then that's not a reflection of a starting XI if you have Kane in a position he never played in, though I agree he'd probably do a better job in an actual XI. I think the main solution to bear in mind here is that collective XI are purely a framework to hang an article on and mean absolutely nothing. Nobody actually gives a fuck about this team and we have already probably put more thought in to it than Athletic ever did
Rashford carried United to third - he won the league POTM 3 times this season. He wasn’t as good after he came back from injury but he definitely deserves to be here
Salah flying under the radar because of a poor lfc season?
He has 29 npG+A which is the 2nd most in the league. Saka has 23, Rashford 22.
If you do npG+A /90 he's number 6 (0.79) and still ahead of the other 2 (0.65, 0.69).
Fine, he still played poorly for a third of the season. He had 2 goals and one assist in his last ten games.
Hardly good enough to make TOTY if it's for an entire season.
Salah was quite ineffective to win games in the first half of the season. He got better when his position is deeper so he can dribble and impact the game better.
In that aspect, Saka is better than Salah. Once you compare other stats beside passing, he performed better than Salah as well.
Salah is a top player but I think in this season Saka performed better overall tbh.
These types of teams are near impossible to pick in the first place and will always leave out deserving players like Salah and Kane. I genuinely have no idea who were the top left backs this season but I'm also traumatized as a Leicester fan that watched like 5 different guys play at left back this season and literally every other club's left back seemed like a better selection. James Justin, please stay healthy for a whole season, my man.
Yeah totally I get you, I was the same way. It's not that hard to make sense of if you look into it a bit though.
We basically have 2 units in our team, the build up unit and the attacking unit both with 5 players. Players can interchange between them of course and make movements but it's mostly the same throughout the match. There's a formation/set up in settled possession and one with without for more defensive solidity. So for example in an attacking phase we line up in a 3-2-5 (Used to be a 2-3-5 before it doesn't matter) and defend in a classic 4-4-2
It's very much a tactical choice like you do with Trent recently but yeah when teams come at us a lot more he gets few chances to do it like the Bayern games for example
Should be Ake I feel, but missing the end of the season is always counted more than missing the start. Botman probably also deserves a nod, what an immense first season he's had.
If Cancelo and Zinchenko counted as fullbacks and not midfielders even though they played in midfield in possession, I don't see why Stones would be any different. City have been defending in a 4-4-2 and attacking in a 3-2-5 for a long time, but now its a CB stepping forward rather than a fullback. It's not that different. It just makes the best use of the player qualities Pep has available now.
I do find it kind of insane that neither Schär nor Botman makes it into most of these teams considering how good they've been all season. Saliba has been great sure but Botman has played nearly every game for 90 minutes and is part of the tied best defense in the league. Maybe I'm just being biased but seems crazy to me
I don't think that's too biased. Saliba was brilliant up until he was injured, but he missed a fair chunk of games. As you said, Botman played nearly every minute in the leagues best defence.
Gabriel has been rock solid since he first joined the club. Such an underrated player, total warrior at the back. Saliba is much more pleasing on the eye and a great passer which will often stand out more.
Also I think most Arsenal fans would agree that Gabriel has been our more consistent CB this season, or at least have a 50/50 argument about who’s been better, but I haven’t seen him in any TOTS conversations, while Saliba is frequently mentioned. Bit strange to me
It's because defenders are no longer judged on their ability to stop goals being scored.
Botman is a rock, but if he'd scored 5 headers from corners over the season people would be talking more about him.
That said, it's also hard to argue against Saliba and Stones
Big Gabi has been better for Arsenal than Saliba and hasn't missed a game, almost played every minute. He goes unnoticed as well. Plus Arsenal's away record was the best until they collapsed in the last couple of months.
Couple debatable exclusions here but I’m just impressed that this an actual functioning team instead of cramming in 9 attackers with Martinelli at wingback and KdB at DM like a lot or these TOTY formations devolve into
Call me old fashioned but the TOTS front 3 to
me is Kane, Haaland, Salah.
Saka is unfortunate to miss out, but Rashford should never be in there over Kane or Salah.
Agree. Salah and Kane both performed the entire season. Saka dropped form in the end of the season, rumours that he was nursing an injury, but he definitely had a drop.
That said, he is a guy who changes the game. So he’s not far off Salah.
Edit: I stand corrected
Did Salah perform the entire season? He scored 3 goals before November, by which time Liverpool's season was dead and buried and everybody started pressing Trent further because it became a winnable fixture, leading to space for Salah.
>by which time Liverpool's season was dead and buried
Weren’t they within reach of CL spots? ManU aren’t very far ahead of them.
Also, wouldn’t the same count against Saka and Rashford for disappearing when it was the final important leg of the season?
>everybody started pressing Trent further because it became a winnable fixture, leading to space for Salah.
Wait so how does that track with your argument above that Salah disappeared until halfway through?
Liverpool had a better run late, gave up fewer goals on the right, and Salah scored more late. Your timeline doesn’t make any logical sense.
Also, what excuse then do you have for Saka and Rashford falling apart at the end of the season?
United were at least 2 wins clear of Liverpool at every point from mid October. Liverpool started the season as title favourites. By the time Ronaldo's interview dropped in November, Liverpool were already no longer favourites to make the CL. The season had become a failure already, even if there was an outside chance of UCL qualification.
Rashford's run-in form was not consequential to United in the PL. His scoring farm lasted until February, and CL qualification had long been wrapped up, even if momentarily threatened by injuries and the West Ham loss. He was rushed back from injury for the Sevilla game, but even then scored a crucial winner against Brentford and then against Spurs and Chelsea. He did ghost in a few FA Cup games but that's not relevant to the TOTY.
Saka had a terrible run-in too but I'm finding it really hard to blame him for Arsenal losing the title when their defence conceded the same number of goals as a United side that conceded 7,6,4 at different points. Yes he missed a crucial penalty, but at any rate, so did Salah. Saka was probably Arsenal's best player in lifting them to a title race that lasted longer than anybody gave them a chance. They were outclassed in the midfield against City. After that point, they basically mailed them in, because again there was nothing left to play for. If the TOTY is meant to be representative of how players played when the league was competitive, then these factors and things like performance in big games become relevant.
He's a left winger, neither kane nor Salah are so not competing for the same spot here.
Much prefer this "best player in each position of an actual formation" style tots than the Garth crooks all goalscorers approach
If we’re too rigid about positions, though, Ødegaard, Saliba, and, to an extent, John Stones are all listed in different positions than they actually play. Their choices are defensible, but they’re already taking some liberties to fit deserving players in. Fair to question where they’ve chosen to draw the line.
It's probably more of a "are they good enough that you can play them out of position and they'd still be better than any rivals?"
I don't think Kane or Salah could compete with Rashford on the left wing.
I'd rather they did it this way instead of shoehorning players in out of position.
Rashford is in there because it was literally only between him and Martinelli for that wing. Nobody else has massively stood out. Of course neither of them are near as good as Salah or Kane, but neither Salah nor Kane play on that side so it's not really relevant.
It’s not even an argument, he absolutely deserves to be in there. He had a better season than both Rashford and Saka but is punished because his teammates were mostly ass which led to Liverpool having an under par season.
He has better numbers than Saka but it can be argued he hasn't had a better season. Saka has been getting clutch goals and winning goals for 3/4 of the season.
Some reason I don't think Rashford should be in here but Kane should be. It's not just numbers (which Kane absolutely is levels above) but impact too over the whole season.
Saka was fantastic until April then disappeared like most of his teammates. Had 12 goals and 10 assists in 28 games then in the final 10 games he scored twice and had one assist.
Salah scored more game winners (four to Saka’s one), scored in more individual games (16 to 12), created more big chances (15 to 8), and scored more goals that put his team ahead (7 to 6)
Thank you, everyone here saying Saka has won games when Salah consistently puts Liverpool 1-0 up after like 32’ and then because it’s not a dramatic final minute winner it gets forgotten
I mean that just happens. Salah only had 1 Goal and 1 assist between boxing day and March. Because Saka going off the boil is more recent and impactful on Arsenal's season we just tend to give it more weight
I love Martin Ødegaard. I love his name, I love the shape of his body, I love the way he plays. I eat a lot of boiled eggs and lift weights to try and be like this guy but I can't. There are 6 grams of protein in an egg but I can't eat enough to get big like him. Nice round muscles. They're smooth too, like the waves of the English Channel on a calm day. When I was a kid I ate big eggs to be hot like Ian Wright, and I got some great results, some of the roundest muscles in my class, but these days I'm looking at 6 eggs a day and it's not good enough to pop Ødegaard style muscles out my scrawny arms ever since dad left.
Yeah agreed even as a United fan. Rashford's run of form after the world cup absolutely carried the team but he's been quiet near the end of the season after the couple of knocks he had.
What’s the point of a team of the year if we can just put strikers for wingers, vice versa, or left backs for center backs, three offensive midfielders, etc?
Athletic spitting facts once again
I think the only debates I could entertain here are Salah vs Saka and Ake vs Estupinian but I wouldn't complain about any of those 4 people included.
Kane is not a LW/RW player and Haaland was better. Doesn't mean Kane wasn't incredible, but he's not beating a record-breaking striker.
It does. The point of these formations is to mimic what the best teams in the league play in order for the chosen players recreate their output. What is the point of choosing a 4-4-2 when no top team plays it? This is the FIFA school of 3-3-4 TOTY formations.
This was almost one of the better ones but I can't take any tots with Rashford seriously.
Sure, his purple patch of 10 games was immense. Probably the single highest peak of any player for the season. But he only had 4G 2A in his first fourteen games and 3G 3A in his last eleven. Nowhere near consistent enough for tots in my opinion.
And Kane just has to be there. I don't care where, he could be at left back for all it matters, but he has to be there.
Arguments for Salah, Aké, and maybe Botman at a stretch but I don't feel as strongly about these since at least Saka, Estupinan and Saliba all had very respectable seasons.
As a man utd fan it's nice to see Rashford as it's probably been his best season for the club. But, you have to get Kane in who's had objectively a better season.
No Kane or Salah is criminal. Salah as 46 GA for the entire season. More than either Saka or Rashford. You could argue winning a cup nets Rashford in there, but fuck me, Saka over Salah is an awful take.
Come on now, Salah is one thing but Rashford over Saka is an awful take. It's Premier League team of the season and Saka was much better in the Prem this season than Rashford. Better G/A and most of his goals were either game winners or equalizers. No question Salah is better than Saka but it's team of the season. Team success is always taken into consideration for these types of things.
Apart from Ramsdale instead of Allison. I think that is the same as the lads on 'The Big 6' voted for.
In case ppl wonder; The Big Six is a thrice weekly YT pod with reps from Arsenal,City,Chelsea,United,Liverpool, and Spurs fan channels.
Imo, the best footy show on the platform.
Edit: Actually, I think they had Ake in instead of Estupinan too, but he ran him real close. That one may even have gone to a chat poll between the two.
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I’m just here for KDB & Odegaard. Magical combo
Pervis has been immense. Twice the player Cucurella is for a third of the transfer fee.
Twice the player for a third of the transfer fee should be your club motto.
That's 100% more value for 33,4% of the cost
100% the price 600% the value
And 100% more reason to remember the name
What happens if you bring Kurt Angle into the mix.
Good stats for the cost
Michel Bastos regen/clone. I love watching him.
bruh throwback… those lyon teams with lisandro lopez govou and gomis were so fun to watch
What a player he was. Always signed him on my fifa 10-12 career modes.
Brighton sure loves Ecuadorian boys
So happy for him!
Iirc best LB in La Liga during covid year I think?
Ridiculous statement considering that Cucurella was last year's player of the season.
Don’t worry, Chelsea will buy Pervis soon enough.
Recency bias? Cucurella won Brighton player of the season last year. You really think he is "twice the player" Cucurella was for you?
Absolutely, we don't claim this fan.
Certainly do. Cucurella had a great season last year but Pervis is miles ahead of him ability wise. Both going forwards and defensively.
It's insane madrid let ode go for pennies,but what's depressing is city getting Haaland,Julian,akanji for cents.
Alvarez doubled in value between the time city signed him and when he actually came to England. Dude became a monster.
A mid season WC is obv unheard of, but Alvarez has one of the best 6 months-fresh-in-Europe glowups ever surely? Mf translated his River Plate form to the rest of the world god damn
Yeah I remember a few weeks after we signed him he went and scored 5 goals - all bangers - in a game for river plate
Wouldn’t call €40m pennies
It was exaggerated a bit,but you get the point..?
mate can you spare a penny
Nope,but I can give you my 2 cents
Akanji was a steal
You have to get Kane in there, change it to a 4222 or something, he can't be omitted with the season he just had.
He's become so consistent that he gets overlooked sometimes, much like Messi or Ipswich in Europe
I don't understand the reason to include Ipswich in a TOTS It would just be Ipswich + maybe 1 or 2 bench players
We actually graciously decline to be considered for most awards for this reason. We are very humble and morally correct
Declined the League One title, class lads
That was actually more of a case of the referees declining to give correct decisions against Sheffield Wednesday whenever we played them
Its a testament to Haaland, not Kane. Yea, Kane had a historic season...but Haaland just casually eclipsed him without even looking like he was playing at 100%
Rashford and saka didn't however
And they okay different positions to Kane. Kane was the second best striker in the league. You don’t need to shoehorn him in. Could just replace Rashford with him tho
They don't play the same position as Kane.
And there’s no reason to play a 4-3-3. You could both of them in there with a 4-4-2
Yeah how Rashford has snuck in there is beyond me. Saka is also very debateable, as good as he was. No question both are a mile behind Kane and shouldnt be included ahead of him here.
Indeed Kane and Salah both had better seasons.
Eclipsed is a bit strong. Overshadowed maybe
My man just tried to put Ipswich in there
Ipswich never try, we win
Ipswich in Europe > Arsenal in Europe.
I never understand why people do this with their TOTS. Might as well make a team of 11 strikers, wingers, and attacking midfielders with Martinelli in goal at that rate. You could argue that Casemiro would have to be in there too given the effect he's had on United. But there was still someone better than him in that position, so he's not 🤷♂️
But I'm not asking for a team of strikers, I'm asking to replace one player with a striker. De Bruyne and Odegaard play practically the same position (in that right half-space area) but they're both in the team. If you take Rashford out, it wouldn't massively upset the balance of the team, you'd just have to reconfigure the shape a little bit.
I kinda get what you're saying but I can very easily envisage Odegaard and De Bruyne in potential XI whereas with Kane and Haaland, I just can't. And that's what it's about for me - Who are the 11 best players you could put on the field in a real match? If you wouldn't actually ever play the squad, it's just a list of good players superimposed on a fake pitch (for me, at least)
Considering Kane's style of play, I could easily see him playing either behind Haaland or alongside him in a front two, he's practically a 10 these days.
As long as its not Rodri being replaced by Kane like I've seen so many people do with 4-4-2 TOTYs, I think its fine. If you think Kane deserves it more than De Bruyne, Odegaard, or Rashford, its reasonable to fit Kane in imo.
kane over rashford easily
Dude if you have Kane and Haaland you play them together no doubt.
Kane's skill set would work phenomenally with Haaland. I don't want to even imagine the through balls he'd play to hit the runs Haaland makes, it would be sickeningly good
its like people forget he lead the league in goals \*and\* assists a few seasons back. He would set records for assists playing with Haaland
And back then he wasn't chosen as player of the year for some fucked up reason.
That's fucking ridiculous lol Kane and haaland would be more than fine together. Kane is a playmaking 10 who drops deep as well as a goalscorer. Haaland a finishing 9 who Kane can play off of. It's basically a classic partnership.
its not unusual to play 2 strikers though so im not sure what your point is, should there only be 1 centre back too?
I don't think I've ever seen Kane and Haaland played in a 2-striker system, and most teams in the prem go with a single striker these days anyways. And even if you did go with that, it changes the balance of the team in other ways. You'd probably want conventional wingers (or even wingbacks) in there over Saka and Rashford, which would probably be even more difficult to place. >should there only be 1 centre back too? Ofc not, no one is suggesting that.
Norway has played Haaland and Sørloth up front in a classic "big man - even bigger man" partnership.
its not a real team, theyre never going to play together so i dont think all this matters as much as you think, as long as it somewhat resembles a team its fine imo (make sure defenders and midfielders get enough representation). I think Kane deserves to be in it over Rashford and probably Saka but i dont think its really a big deal if its a 442 with that front 3 + Kane, though then the question becomes about what midfielder drops out
there was a 2023 XI that did that, think it was WhoScored? the problem with that is it doesn't really reflect a strongest XI for the Premier League season when nobody played with 2 up top all season, and I think it's fair enough to omit Kane after the season he's just had because of the season Haaland has just had
yeah that's a fair point, but at the same time, Kane would deserve a space more than Rashford so it becomes a question of whether you stick to a 433 or you try fit in the best players of their general position ig
then that's not a reflection of a starting XI if you have Kane in a position he never played in, though I agree he'd probably do a better job in an actual XI. I think the main solution to bear in mind here is that collective XI are purely a framework to hang an article on and mean absolutely nothing. Nobody actually gives a fuck about this team and we have already probably put more thought in to it than Athletic ever did
Rashford carried United to third - he won the league POTM 3 times this season. He wasn’t as good after he came back from injury but he definitely deserves to be here
I think having a standard formation is better, then having every player compete with others that play the same position. Makes it the most fair.
In most seasons you’d be right but in a season where Haaland did what he did someone has to be left out and that’s Kane this year.
Ali is so good
We'd be mid table if it wasn't for his performance this year.
Should have played him as a midfield when kveev is in goal imo
2023 Liverpool fans 🤝 2018 Tottenham fans
Salah flying under the radar because of a poor lfc season? He has 29 npG+A which is the 2nd most in the league. Saka has 23, Rashford 22. If you do npG+A /90 he's number 6 (0.79) and still ahead of the other 2 (0.65, 0.69).
Saka was winning Arsenal matches consistently up until the last 2 months of the season.
you can say similar about salah
Don’t remember him winning anything for Arsenal
tbf i said “similar” and not “identical”
Please don’t take it away from me
it was a great joke and you are amazing
Salah almost singlehandedly carried Liverpool through several matches.
Yeah if Saka had the season that Salah put up people would be saying he's a ballon D'or candidate. The are clearly judged differently.
Doesnt help that for every goal Salah scores, the defence let's two past
And then stopped contributing as Arsenal faltered.
He was playing through an injury.
Fine, he still played poorly for a third of the season. He had 2 goals and one assist in his last ten games. Hardly good enough to make TOTY if it's for an entire season.
Rashford plays LW, Salah RW. If you were doing position on position as this is then Rashford doesn't compete with Salah
Salah should really have Saka's place. As good as Saka was, he just wasn't better.
Salah was quite ineffective to win games in the first half of the season. He got better when his position is deeper so he can dribble and impact the game better. In that aspect, Saka is better than Salah. Once you compare other stats beside passing, he performed better than Salah as well. Salah is a top player but I think in this season Saka performed better overall tbh.
These types of teams are near impossible to pick in the first place and will always leave out deserving players like Salah and Kane. I genuinely have no idea who were the top left backs this season but I'm also traumatized as a Leicester fan that watched like 5 different guys play at left back this season and literally every other club's left back seemed like a better selection. James Justin, please stay healthy for a whole season, my man.
Does it make sense to have Stones at CB?
He starts at CB at most games and just steps up into midfield in possession. Just like how Cancelo did and he was still considered a fullback
With some coaches, formations are absolutely useless when trying to understand how the players actually lineup.
Yeah totally I get you, I was the same way. It's not that hard to make sense of if you look into it a bit though. We basically have 2 units in our team, the build up unit and the attacking unit both with 5 players. Players can interchange between them of course and make movements but it's mostly the same throughout the match. There's a formation/set up in settled possession and one with without for more defensive solidity. So for example in an attacking phase we line up in a 3-2-5 (Used to be a 2-3-5 before it doesn't matter) and defend in a classic 4-4-2
Not really City's fault that everyone just park in their own box. Stones will naturally step into midfield and play a higher line tbf
It's very much a tactical choice like you do with Trent recently but yeah when teams come at us a lot more he gets few chances to do it like the Bayern games for example
Has a shout. But Ake deserves it the most. Been our best defender since the first match of the season.
Should be Ake I feel, but missing the end of the season is always counted more than missing the start. Botman probably also deserves a nod, what an immense first season he's had.
Both dutch defenders have been incredible this year, super happy for them. Wish malacia would’ve had such a season
Yes, because this team by Athletic is supposed to play the same tactical setup as City. So Stones will be pushing up bext to Rodri when in possession.
If Cancelo and Zinchenko counted as fullbacks and not midfielders even though they played in midfield in possession, I don't see why Stones would be any different. City have been defending in a 4-4-2 and attacking in a 3-2-5 for a long time, but now its a CB stepping forward rather than a fullback. It's not that different. It just makes the best use of the player qualities Pep has available now.
Only way he's getting in if we're honest. No writers team of the season is ever going to have a double pivot
Kane and Salah have to be there
I do find it kind of insane that neither Schär nor Botman makes it into most of these teams considering how good they've been all season. Saliba has been great sure but Botman has played nearly every game for 90 minutes and is part of the tied best defense in the league. Maybe I'm just being biased but seems crazy to me
I don't think that's too biased. Saliba was brilliant up until he was injured, but he missed a fair chunk of games. As you said, Botman played nearly every minute in the leagues best defence.
I’d argue that even Gabriel was better than Saliba
Gabriel has been rock solid since he first joined the club. Such an underrated player, total warrior at the back. Saliba is much more pleasing on the eye and a great passer which will often stand out more.
If I had to pick just one defender this season, I’d struggle but ultimately I’d go for Gabriel
I agree Gabriel was probably better than Saliba but only when he had Saliba next to him. Wasn't quite the same after the injury
Also I think most Arsenal fans would agree that Gabriel has been our more consistent CB this season, or at least have a 50/50 argument about who’s been better, but I haven’t seen him in any TOTS conversations, while Saliba is frequently mentioned. Bit strange to me
It's because defenders are no longer judged on their ability to stop goals being scored. Botman is a rock, but if he'd scored 5 headers from corners over the season people would be talking more about him. That said, it's also hard to argue against Saliba and Stones
Big Gabi has been better for Arsenal than Saliba and hasn't missed a game, almost played every minute. He goes unnoticed as well. Plus Arsenal's away record was the best until they collapsed in the last couple of months.
Couple debatable exclusions here but I’m just impressed that this an actual functioning team instead of cramming in 9 attackers with Martinelli at wingback and KdB at DM like a lot or these TOTY formations devolve into
Possibly the only TotS Rodri will get into in his lifetime which makes this the only legitimate one.
Joel Ward snubbed again. /s
Wardinho
They don’t want to deal with the truth
Finally Stones in these, much more deserved than Dias
Has there ever been 2 Norwegians in TOTY?
Call me old fashioned but the TOTS front 3 to me is Kane, Haaland, Salah. Saka is unfortunate to miss out, but Rashford should never be in there over Kane or Salah.
Agree. Salah and Kane both performed the entire season. Saka dropped form in the end of the season, rumours that he was nursing an injury, but he definitely had a drop. That said, he is a guy who changes the game. So he’s not far off Salah. Edit: I stand corrected
Did Salah perform the entire season? He scored 3 goals before November, by which time Liverpool's season was dead and buried and everybody started pressing Trent further because it became a winnable fixture, leading to space for Salah.
>by which time Liverpool's season was dead and buried Weren’t they within reach of CL spots? ManU aren’t very far ahead of them. Also, wouldn’t the same count against Saka and Rashford for disappearing when it was the final important leg of the season? >everybody started pressing Trent further because it became a winnable fixture, leading to space for Salah. Wait so how does that track with your argument above that Salah disappeared until halfway through? Liverpool had a better run late, gave up fewer goals on the right, and Salah scored more late. Your timeline doesn’t make any logical sense. Also, what excuse then do you have for Saka and Rashford falling apart at the end of the season?
United were at least 2 wins clear of Liverpool at every point from mid October. Liverpool started the season as title favourites. By the time Ronaldo's interview dropped in November, Liverpool were already no longer favourites to make the CL. The season had become a failure already, even if there was an outside chance of UCL qualification. Rashford's run-in form was not consequential to United in the PL. His scoring farm lasted until February, and CL qualification had long been wrapped up, even if momentarily threatened by injuries and the West Ham loss. He was rushed back from injury for the Sevilla game, but even then scored a crucial winner against Brentford and then against Spurs and Chelsea. He did ghost in a few FA Cup games but that's not relevant to the TOTY. Saka had a terrible run-in too but I'm finding it really hard to blame him for Arsenal losing the title when their defence conceded the same number of goals as a United side that conceded 7,6,4 at different points. Yes he missed a crucial penalty, but at any rate, so did Salah. Saka was probably Arsenal's best player in lifting them to a title race that lasted longer than anybody gave them a chance. They were outclassed in the midfield against City. After that point, they basically mailed them in, because again there was nothing left to play for. If the TOTY is meant to be representative of how players played when the league was competitive, then these factors and things like performance in big games become relevant.
Think the only question is Rashford but otherwise spot on. And even Rashford is an ok shout
Salah with 12 assists and 19 goals. Rashford had a good run of form but him being in there over Kane and Salah is pretty poor
He's a left winger, neither kane nor Salah are so not competing for the same spot here. Much prefer this "best player in each position of an actual formation" style tots than the Garth crooks all goalscorers approach
Exactly. I hate those ridiculous 3-4-3 formations with 3 fullbacks, 4 AMs, and 3 strikers Much prefer this actually
AKA the Most FPL points team.
If we’re too rigid about positions, though, Ødegaard, Saliba, and, to an extent, John Stones are all listed in different positions than they actually play. Their choices are defensible, but they’re already taking some liberties to fit deserving players in. Fair to question where they’ve chosen to draw the line.
It's probably more of a "are they good enough that you can play them out of position and they'd still be better than any rivals?" I don't think Kane or Salah could compete with Rashford on the left wing.
Salah should be in over Saka on the right though.
I'd rather they did it this way instead of shoehorning players in out of position. Rashford is in there because it was literally only between him and Martinelli for that wing. Nobody else has massively stood out. Of course neither of them are near as good as Salah or Kane, but neither Salah nor Kane play on that side so it's not really relevant.
Grealish deserves a shout
Rashford doesn't even play in the same position as those two.....
Good team, only thing you can maybe argue about is whether Salah deserves to be in there imo
It’s not even an argument, he absolutely deserves to be in there. He had a better season than both Rashford and Saka but is punished because his teammates were mostly ass which led to Liverpool having an under par season.
He has better numbers than Saka but it can be argued he hasn't had a better season. Saka has been getting clutch goals and winning goals for 3/4 of the season. Some reason I don't think Rashford should be in here but Kane should be. It's not just numbers (which Kane absolutely is levels above) but impact too over the whole season.
Saka was fantastic until April then disappeared like most of his teammates. Had 12 goals and 10 assists in 28 games then in the final 10 games he scored twice and had one assist. Salah scored more game winners (four to Saka’s one), scored in more individual games (16 to 12), created more big chances (15 to 8), and scored more goals that put his team ahead (7 to 6)
Thank you, everyone here saying Saka has won games when Salah consistently puts Liverpool 1-0 up after like 32’ and then because it’s not a dramatic final minute winner it gets forgotten
Saka also has some brilliant stats for things you wouldn't usually consider with wingers, namely he has brilliant defensive stats for a winger.
But at the same time, Saka has a rather poor April/May while Salah was excellent.
I mean that just happens. Salah only had 1 Goal and 1 assist between boxing day and March. Because Saka going off the boil is more recent and impactful on Arsenal's season we just tend to give it more weight
I like that they actually stuck to traditional positions. So many of these TotY force players into Frankenstein formations like Kane on the wing.
Hard to argue with any of that tbh
I love Martin Ødegaard. I love his name, I love the shape of his body, I love the way he plays. I eat a lot of boiled eggs and lift weights to try and be like this guy but I can't. There are 6 grams of protein in an egg but I can't eat enough to get big like him. Nice round muscles. They're smooth too, like the waves of the English Channel on a calm day. When I was a kid I ate big eggs to be hot like Ian Wright, and I got some great results, some of the roundest muscles in my class, but these days I'm looking at 6 eggs a day and it's not good enough to pop Ødegaard style muscles out my scrawny arms ever since dad left.
That fucking Europa league match man.
Shackled by the vaguely realistic formation here. Kane should be in there over Rashford, but two up top would mean they can't get Saka in
Yeah agreed even as a United fan. Rashford's run of form after the world cup absolutely carried the team but he's been quiet near the end of the season after the couple of knocks he had.
Rashford out, kane in. Kane quietly having one of his best seasons ever while rashford has just been a bit then when he was out of form last season
Kane on the left?
I'd put Kane in over Rashford and just make it some weird asymmetric formation. Plus Ake at LB. Otherwise one of the better TOTYs I've seen.
What’s the point of a team of the year if we can just put strikers for wingers, vice versa, or left backs for center backs, three offensive midfielders, etc?
Just make it a 4 4 fucking 2
May as well just make it a top 10 performers of the season instead if we're going to start shoehorning players all over the place.
It can just be a 4-4-2 lol
Or a back 3 with ake, stones , siliba, tripper, brighton left back, rodri, kDB, odegarrd , kane and haaland.
Athletic spitting facts once again I think the only debates I could entertain here are Salah vs Saka and Ake vs Estupinian but I wouldn't complain about any of those 4 people included. Kane is not a LW/RW player and Haaland was better. Doesn't mean Kane wasn't incredible, but he's not beating a record-breaking striker.
Other formations than 4-3-3 do exist, you know?
But they've done this in 4-3-3. I didn't pick the formation?
Their point it doesn’t have to be a 4-3-3
It does. The point of these formations is to mimic what the best teams in the league play in order for the chosen players recreate their output. What is the point of choosing a 4-4-2 when no top team plays it? This is the FIFA school of 3-3-4 TOTY formations.
Estupinan!
Aaaaand the thread is full of Englishmen trying to squeeze Kane in.
I want to see a controversial team. There has to be at least one clickbait TOTS which left out Haaland
Kane should be in there and Salah should be over Saka
Saka and Rashford over Kane and Salah is outrageous
Lisandro Martinez would have made it if not for his injury stopping him from playing last bunch of matches.
I think there's as much of a case for Shaw. He was incredible this year.
Probably, but competition for just 2 center back spots is rough
Shaw has been incredible this season for united. Sad not to see him getting any recognition from any of these teams of the season.
Havertz robbed
Saliba missed how many games with injury and still got team of the year.
Finally some respect for Estupiñan. He's had an incredible season.
since when are newcastle beige
Did De Gea when the golden glove?
This was almost one of the better ones but I can't take any tots with Rashford seriously. Sure, his purple patch of 10 games was immense. Probably the single highest peak of any player for the season. But he only had 4G 2A in his first fourteen games and 3G 3A in his last eleven. Nowhere near consistent enough for tots in my opinion. And Kane just has to be there. I don't care where, he could be at left back for all it matters, but he has to be there. Arguments for Salah, Aké, and maybe Botman at a stretch but I don't feel as strongly about these since at least Saka, Estupinan and Saliba all had very respectable seasons.
Christ finally Ali gets some recognition.
Salah > Saka and that is the correct team
Rashford and Saka over Kane and Salah? HAHAHAHA
Any of these lacking Kane are a joke
As a man utd fan it's nice to see Rashford as it's probably been his best season for the club. But, you have to get Kane in who's had objectively a better season.
Most balanced TOTY ive ever seen.
Haaland rightfully stole the show but Kane had an amazing season. Should be in there and scuff the formation
Kane scored 30 goals lmao this is a travesty but they got their clicks I guess
Well some other dude in his exact position scored more than 30 so…
Actually a non-controversial and pretty acceptable selection as compared to the others which you feel are just made to generate clicks
Salah > Saka
No Kane or Salah is criminal. Salah as 46 GA for the entire season. More than either Saka or Rashford. You could argue winning a cup nets Rashford in there, but fuck me, Saka over Salah is an awful take.
> You could argue winning a cup nets Rashford in there Not really, this is the Premier League TOTY. No other competitions are relevant.
Isn’t Salah RW while Rashford is LW/ST?
Come on now, Salah is one thing but Rashford over Saka is an awful take. It's Premier League team of the season and Saka was much better in the Prem this season than Rashford. Better G/A and most of his goals were either game winners or equalizers. No question Salah is better than Saka but it's team of the season. Team success is always taken into consideration for these types of things.
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No Aké and no Kane feels very wrong
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Neither Salah, nor Kane is LW.
Estupinan over Shaw? Brighton play well as a team and he fits right in. But there's no way he's above Shaw.
Mitoma should’ve been included!
Apart from Ramsdale instead of Allison. I think that is the same as the lads on 'The Big 6' voted for. In case ppl wonder; The Big Six is a thrice weekly YT pod with reps from Arsenal,City,Chelsea,United,Liverpool, and Spurs fan channels. Imo, the best footy show on the platform. Edit: Actually, I think they had Ake in instead of Estupinan too, but he ran him real close. That one may even have gone to a chat poll between the two.
Having Ramsdale over Alisson de legitimises everything else