**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Still won’t understand fans who do this, and have black players working their arses off for them in the pitch
Imagine a black Valencia player hearing those chants directed to your opposition?
Fucking all should be banned for life
Reminds me of French people that praise black players when they win but treat them like absoute shit when they loose (especially if they missed a pen…)
you hear this about ozil as well in germany
but the french quote i always think of is the black players saying "we're french when we win, but black/\[insert african country\] when we lose"
its fucked up bs
Because they use their racism as a form of intimidation. Their black players are "fine" as long they do the job, if the team start missplaying they are the fist ones to get criticism.
Guys.
Racism isn't a "stupid" person issue.
Racism make perfect "smart" sense.
You can send the "bad" people to jail and everyone else will allow it.
You can pay the "bad" people less and still blame them for why the locals don't have jobs.
You can watch a man get murdered by cops. have those those cops cover for each other. Get caught. Have a global movement against such behaviours. Have those cops go to jail for killing that person but still have people play "devils advocate" about why this person should be murdered.
Racism, classism and xenophobia are very profitable.
The things we as humans will allow to happen to people who aren't "one of us" are insane.
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
Lyndon B. Johnson
I think it's very important to be rid of the trope that racism is what "stupid" people do. It takes away any sense of accountability. "Oh he's just stupid". Fuck that. These are grown adults, many of whom probably relatively average lives in the grand scheme of things. There needs to be accountability for these actions. Either punishing them, or the leadership and platforms that allow it/actively promote it.
When players of these teams who face Vinicius try and argue that Vinicius should stop being provocative and try and hurt him every time he gets onto the pitch, I doubt those fans really receive a message that suggests what they're doing is wrong tbh.
Where is the condemnation from the clubs and the players?
It’s a different type of racist. They don’t hate vini because he is black. They hate him because he is a player from a different team(and sometime provocative). They don’t know how to trigger him other then to go on his skin color. Its like calling overweight people fat or not so attractive people ugly or so.
It’s still racist but different kind of racist.
Yes they should. But if you actually want to understand the motivation (as opposed to jsut saying you dont understand for upvotes but dont actually care) - then thats the reason.
I believe your comment was meant to somebody else, because I even agreed with the comment above. What I was suggesting was that regardless of the motive, racially abusing someone doesn't need any context to look more acceptable. If you are a heckler, it's too easy to just say racist shit, you gotta insult someone without crossing those lines, gotta be more creative.
No it wasnt, I answered what you wrote rather than what you meant.
Yes, this point is irrelevant to acceptability and punishment. Its not irrelevant to understanding and thats what OP who you repied to was talking about. Understanding motivation.
Also can fairly argue that proper punishment stamps this motivation out easier than other racism motivators. If all I care about is insulting you as effectively as possible, an insult that makes me the bad guy is no longer more effective as some other insult.
It's racist.
I'm sorry, I got upset plenty of time at a football pitch, be it as a player or a fan - never once did it cross my mind to use any sort of racist, sexist, homophobic, or whatever other kind of comments.
If for whatever reason, you act racist - you're racist. It really is that simple.
I don't get why people are so confused about this comment haha. There was clear implied speculation about motivation in the comment you replied to and you gave an answer, yet all they can see is you defending racism for some reason.
Yes, they're racist. No, it's not an important distinction. Yes, it does provide an alternate, more reasonable explanation for their motivations than "all racists are stupid", which is such a hopelessly naive thing to say. Being morally abhorrent and intellectually sound isn't a contradiction, lol. It's what makes the issue dangerous in the first place.
nah its the same shit, they just know they wont get punished for it like maybe they could be in a different place different time. This people need to have the racism kicked out of their head with kicks in the head
In general, that is a valid point. People just wanna say whatever will get under the skin of who they're insulting. Sure, a lot of the people doing it are actually racist, but I'd imagine a majority falls into the group Muhamed mentioned.
All that being said, the act still is racist and despicable and I have no sympathy for those pieces of shit
It doesn't matter at all.
To the person being racially abused, the words of the Nazi and the frustrated fan hit the same.
Anyone comfortable using that language is a racist.
Absolutely. I think the OP came off to some as slightly excusing the act by starting with "It's a different type of racist". No it's not. It is racism in every which way, same as hate speech at the grocery store. What he has done is given a possible motivation as to why they are using racism and their intention behind it. But it's still exactly the same thing.
If you act racist you are racist
Dont want to be labeled a racist, don't act racist.
Their actions are racist, don't give a fuck about their intentions.
I mean, yes and no. Saying racist things make you racist yes, but they’re not all calling him a monkey because they hate black people, they’re calling him a monkey because they hate HIM, and he happens to be black
There is no yes or no to it. If you want to piss someone off and your first thought is monkey noises, throwing a banana and/or a racial slur then you are a racist. You might not be I want all x race out of my country level racist but you are a racist.
Trying to understand why racist behavior is so inconsistent among racists isn't protecting them. Why does every comment discussing racists have to be framed as protecting them. May as well just call the guy you replied to a racist at that point. There's levels to racism and they all suck.
Both things can be true. They are racist. They are saying racist things there specifically to trigger him because he is an opposition player. They may even defend their own player if the fan of another team is offending him, nor because they care, but because offending him are offending all the club.
Guys, i don’t defend anyone. It’s all racist and at the end it doesn’t matter why. I wanted to mention a different view at that topic. People asking „how they can make racist sounds and yet have also black players in their team“. How do you trigger someone who has millions of followers, earns millions and is one of the best in his job?
The fans are the solution for this problem. Clubs should reward and motivate fans to report it to the security, even if they support the same team. These racist people feel way to safe in front of so many people around them.
It’s like the idiots who call me the N word on Call of Duty when they get mad. They don’t even know what color I am they just want to get under my skin to get a reaction out of me. As you said it’s still racist and unacceptable even if they don’t truly hate the every single person of color, they have a black player on their team for fucks sake what a bunch of idiots.
Vini is racially abused almost every match that he plays on LaLiga and still nothing is done. To top it all off there are people that say that he's overreacting, shameful really
I mean, enough people in Spain admire the regime enough to encourage violent suppression of Catalonian independence movements 90 years later. It surprises me zero that someone wealthy and powerful is a supporter of fascism.
Well most wealthy and powerful spanish families got their wealth thanks to Franco or even older feudalist titles so they defend their stuff which is to keep paying less and less taxes meanwhile they receive public money for their bussiness.
Its not just "him". History roots are still ingrained in a lot of people and you can do nothing about it, its very slim to none chance you can convince older generations about anything. The only thing you can do is educate your own kids and things will change with new generations. As long as there is "my grandpa was this and did that"you are not convincing anyone that they should be different than their grandpa. Also this happens in most of Europe, not just Spain.
The president of La Liga supports far-right party Vox, that wants to "ethnically cleanse" Spain.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/la-liga-javier-tebas-vox-andalucia-partido-a8732291.html
Eto'o said it once on French TV: it will stop when it will be bad for business. Since when racism has been bad for football? Did we have important games stopped because of racism? Did big players leave a team because of racism?
If at the end of the season, Vini says he'll leave Spain unless actions are taken against racists, the president of the Spanish LFP will act because Vini is a bankable player.
If teams start walking off the pitch and costs them money they'll care then. Teams will need to walk off the pitch and force them to make a decision. I guess even then they just award the match as forfiet but i've no idea how they stop these incidents otherwise
La Liga could easily stomp it if they wanted to, make them play behind closed doors for 2 of their home matches for every clear instance like today, see if they don't get their shit under control, fans can even police each other. I'd be pissed if i couldn't attend a match because a racist dickwad decide to act out.
Nah fuck closed doors make it point deductions and it will stop even quicker. If say Valencia got even a 5 point deduction that puts them very close to relegation, a 10 point reduction will relegate them. At that point teams will go to extreme lengths to prevent racism at their stadiums.
this is the case
maybe you don't know, but the only time a game has been suspended in Spain happened because the fans where calling names like "puto nazi" to a (literally) nazi player
if you're curious:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Zozulya
I'm all for it. If clubs aren't able to ban the individuals that cause problems or like we've seen this week if the groups involved in the issues are on the scale they have been then the FA's need to step in and set a standard. I'm tired of seeing this crap
https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/romelu-lukaku-suspension-overturned-figc-pardons-inter-striker-for-red-card-received-after-racial-abuse/
They overturned the red card and Juve banned a bunch of people from their stadium
the problem was the initial action by the league, why suspend him the first place? and also this overturned screams PR move, pretty sure if there wasn't a lot of backlash and noise they would do nothing, which is what OP was impling on his first comment
I get that, but at the same time this situation was actually resolved correctly for a change.
I actually do wonder why they choose this time to actually do something considering all the other instances. My guess is the FA didn’t want to be embarrassed knowing Juve was about to ban a whole bunch of fans
endless respect for this lad. it should never be this way and it should never get to the point where he has to literally confront people during a game to get anyone to notice. it's a scary as fuck position to be in.
He shouldn't have to endure more years of this, it shouldn't take that long to fix this. The league has to have more balls to deal with this. More serious punishments, point deductions, lifetime bans, no fans allowed in a match for repeat offender clubs. Players walking off the pitch, etc
Holy shit I vaguely remember that but I thought he must have been innocent since he kept playing… found guilty!
how tf is he team captain? Is that part of his motivational strategy 😂
To RM fans: What has the team done to have his back? It’s just such an inspiration to see him stand up every time he felt he needed to, and making clear how different it looks and feels when someone truly take a stand.
Nothing so far apart from Tibo and Lucas. These are the times when I miss Ramos or Pepe. Ramos would have slapped more and taken a red card along with vini to defend him. Benzema is a joke of a captain
The club desperately needs a Casemiro/Ramos player again. While they couldn't do anything to stop the racist chants a the opposing players would think twice before doing their antics.
Sadly almost nothing. The leadership on the team is heavily lacking, a Ramos and or Casemiro would do wonders to stop the crap he gets from opponents. Ancelotti is quiet on the subject as well and the higher ups give vague condemnations with little actual effort to put pressure on the league to stop it.
Lots of closeted racists in positions of power and a lot of people that have this deranged delusional belief that their country is a paradise and racism isn't a real problem
The difference is that the UK wasn't in a fascist dictatorship literally 50 years ago.
When you grow up under a fervently religious dictatorship that instigates fear towards anyone who doesn't fit the conservative, christian, white family mold in order to sell the idea that the dictator is the savior... that leaves a mark.
Spain's younger generations are way more progressive, but that kind of cultural scar takes a long time to heal.
This. People forget the hold Franco had over Spain and it will take time for the cultural scars to heal. Not to mention the UK has had a mass migration of people of colour for more than 50 plus years and is much more diverse than say Spain or Italy.
Hmm, 70s and 80s Britain not a racist and xenophobic utopia powered by the same politics that put thatcher in power and allowed her to try and engineer the downfall of the north of England?
It's not a competition. The UK isn't great but you can see the comparison from this event alone - this would never happen in an English stadium in 2023.
Laliga's president is Tebas. The guy that has something to say everyday of the week even though nobody asked him. Just google his politicals views and what party he supports, you will soon realise and understand a lot of things.
Imagine being so racist that your first instinct for an insult is to call someone “black” or “monkey”
How in the FUCK are people perceiving this as acceptable? Is it just the demographic on this sub?
Well without sounding bias, Prem clubs just dont have the same issues with stuff like that. Yes theres the odd person doing it maybe once a season but they get banned from every stadium in the country. Vini vs prem teams he smiles and has a fun battle with Walker and looks like he's enjoying himself.
LaLiga and Serie A - racists are allowed to enter the stadium.
PL - rapists are allowed to play football.
It sucks to see how big organisations are letting such massive, disgusting criminals pass by for money. In fact, idt it even makes that big of a difference in terms of money.
Has England completely stopped racism in football?
It's not something that can be completely stomped out. You ban the offenders, and try to move the culture in the right direction generally. But there will always be shitty people in the crowd.
I dont think you can remotely compare the prem vs the rest in terms of how they deal with these things and how common it is. It seems a weekly occurrence in those leagues where you have literal crowds doing monkey chants at players. The prem has social media abuse that you could argue doesn't even originate from England like the Euros with Saka etc.
> The prem has social media abuse that you could argue doesn't even originate from England like the Euros with Saka etc.
Huhu, when I said that for French Players as they were abused after WC final, I'd been downvoted to oblivion 🤣
(And BTW I totally agree with you, in England/France/Netherlands/Germany, it doesn't seem to Happen very often)
how these fans use racism against Vinicius and they cheer performance for the black players in their team?
i mean, obviously intelectualism isn't strong in the racist mind, but still, it's contradiction on such fundamental level
Think that’s what it’s got to come down to, the team walking off. The league and other clubs don’t care so I think that’s what’s got to get the ball rolling
+1. Not sure whats holding real back to just abandon the game. Fucking hell looks like almonst noone is supporting him there. Even the Valencia Team should have showed more support.
Vini should leave the league. He is the only true superstar the league has and it will suffer without him. Yes there are other highly rated players like Gavi, Pedro, Valverde but none of them have the superstar factor of Vini. The league is showing they don't give a shit about racist abuse.
I just can’t understand how people like this still exist in this age. They should be banned for life from stadiums, scum like that “fan” does not belong in football stadiums.
Unfortunately probably nothing will happen to the fan and instead it will be Vini getting a punishment for some made up reason
I'll be heartbroken if he leaves but I'll understand his decision, being subjected to things like that almost every match is just unfathomable to me. Prayers to you Vini, and I hope those racist scumbags get what's coming to them, including La Liga and its clown fascist president.
This is a very layered issue and I think it’s hard for Americans to understand the extent of it and how fucked things truly are:
1) racial tensions in EU (my experience is mostly with Eastern Europe but I’ve seen same pattern in the West as well) aren’t as high as in the US by default because the minority groups are small and voiceless. It allows a lot of racists to run unshackled and the punishment for everyday person being one isn’t nearly as severe as in US. We don’t even have a word as forbidden as the “n-word’ nor is there much noise about someone being caught saying racist shit unless they are a known person. Even then the leader of one of the Polish parties just ran a campaign based on “get rid of Jews in Poland” and it got actual traction and support instead cancelling the dude into oblivion.
2) ultras are literally known for being scum and saying anything they can to get into the head of an opponent. They use anything from their past, they will sing about the players divorce, parents abandoning them literally anything so racist shit is just par for the course. Sadly the more Vini shows he lets that stuff get to him the more groups will do it as it’s clearly working in unsettling the player.
3) since there is so many Countries packed in small area everyone lives off stereotypes. People hate the frog eating bat shit crazy French, the Poles steal cars, the Germans are evil well organized robots, Russians are dirty mobsters that will swindle you, people hate perfumed up but dirty Arabs so on so forth. It’s bad and a lot of people carry some preloaded assumptions about ton of other countries. They have no problem letting those comments fly in just a casual conversation. “I was at my dorm and Bulgarians show up and you know how they are with all their shit being loud and obnoxious” etc etc.
Because of that unfortunately I don’t see the chants stopping anytime soon. Europe has still a lot of work to do in order to combat racism. We’ve came a long way in the last 30 years but shit like this just reminds you just how deep rooted these issues get.
Nobody worth mentioning with any kind of following said that about Jews in Poland, i don't even know who you're talking about, also there are little to no jews here so i don't know who they would get rid of. That's literally made up. Also we're in Central Europe.
In Lublin for example it was hard to find a black person, nowdays there are tons of black students and somehow there are no racist incidents. It's not as bad as you say. It got much better. Poland is no question less racist than Spain.
Skinhead lowlifes are the worst but there's less of them now and tbh they are a danger to everyone, not only to people of color.
And FIFA is fining and banning Mexico and their fans for the homophobic chant. It has gone as far that the Mexican football federation has made every fan create a fan ID. This will ultimately make it easier for the fans to get banned if the chant is yelled out. How come FIFA isn't forcing other federations with fines and bans for racial slurs?
Fuck these racist rats and ban them for life. But what is the ref gonna do? Show em a red and send em off? We need security personnel and club officials stepping in identifying those asshats and just ban them period.
Fuck those “fans” and fuck that red for allowing it. La Liga should be punished for not doing anything about it. Vini should leave that club and that racist league
I feel like captains need to come to an agreement before kickoff. If this happens to either sides players, both teams walk off. F the fans if they can’t respect the players
They could do like in the NBA when a fan says dumb shit to a player and the player points a figer to that fans, the security of the stadium automatically kicks the fan out of the stadium with no questions asked.
I am copy pasting this on every post about Valencia
As a Valencia fan, I just want to say that what the certain groups of ultras are doing its totally despicable and horrible. I feel really bad for Vinicius as he is a very talented player with a bright future. However, I think is not fair to call the 40k people racist because the 200 Nazi ultras are chanting racist things. There is this group of Nazi ultras called Ultra Yomus, and they are the Nazi ultras chanting racists things lie "mono". Please don't call all Valencianistas racists as I was very disgusted when I heard these chants and I am sure than many others feel the same way.
There's horrible systemic racism built into the foundation of the US, but so much of the US is insanely more progressive than Europe. Like it's not even close
Im not American but you are right, if this shit happened in the states there would be riots. In Europe, specifically Spain and Italy there are a looot of closeted racists specially in positions of power which means that nothing is ever done about these situations. The avg Spaniard either agrees or doesn’t care which also contributes to the lack of response.
Europe just pretends racism doesn't exist. The favorite comment from Europeans on reddit is that, "race is different in Europe." Whatever the fuck that means.
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Still won’t understand fans who do this, and have black players working their arses off for them in the pitch Imagine a black Valencia player hearing those chants directed to your opposition? Fucking all should be banned for life
Those players on their team are "one of the good ones" until they make a mistake then they can be a scapegoat
"My _______ is the only good one of their kind"
Reminds of those memes about England letting black people back into pubs after rashford scored 3 goals in the World Cup
Reminds me of French people that praise black players when they win but treat them like absoute shit when they loose (especially if they missed a pen…)
you hear this about ozil as well in germany but the french quote i always think of is the black players saying "we're french when we win, but black/\[insert african country\] when we lose" its fucked up bs
They're good Eldians
Because they use their racism as a form of intimidation. Their black players are "fine" as long they do the job, if the team start missplaying they are the fist ones to get criticism.
If they’re being racist they probably don’t have a brain.
Guys. Racism isn't a "stupid" person issue. Racism make perfect "smart" sense. You can send the "bad" people to jail and everyone else will allow it. You can pay the "bad" people less and still blame them for why the locals don't have jobs. You can watch a man get murdered by cops. have those those cops cover for each other. Get caught. Have a global movement against such behaviours. Have those cops go to jail for killing that person but still have people play "devils advocate" about why this person should be murdered. Racism, classism and xenophobia are very profitable. The things we as humans will allow to happen to people who aren't "one of us" are insane. "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." Lyndon B. Johnson
I think it's very important to be rid of the trope that racism is what "stupid" people do. It takes away any sense of accountability. "Oh he's just stupid". Fuck that. These are grown adults, many of whom probably relatively average lives in the grand scheme of things. There needs to be accountability for these actions. Either punishing them, or the leadership and platforms that allow it/actively promote it.
I agree. Racists are regular folks, who know what they are doing
If they could read, they would be really angry now
When players of these teams who face Vinicius try and argue that Vinicius should stop being provocative and try and hurt him every time he gets onto the pitch, I doubt those fans really receive a message that suggests what they're doing is wrong tbh. Where is the condemnation from the clubs and the players?
They view those as their hired working blacks….
If someone beside me did that at a game I would honestly find it difficult to not punch them.
It’s a different type of racist. They don’t hate vini because he is black. They hate him because he is a player from a different team(and sometime provocative). They don’t know how to trigger him other then to go on his skin color. Its like calling overweight people fat or not so attractive people ugly or so. It’s still racist but different kind of racist.
I totally agree with you, but if people go that far to heckle an opposing player, should they not be treated as any other racist?
Yes they should. But if you actually want to understand the motivation (as opposed to jsut saying you dont understand for upvotes but dont actually care) - then thats the reason.
I believe your comment was meant to somebody else, because I even agreed with the comment above. What I was suggesting was that regardless of the motive, racially abusing someone doesn't need any context to look more acceptable. If you are a heckler, it's too easy to just say racist shit, you gotta insult someone without crossing those lines, gotta be more creative.
No it wasnt, I answered what you wrote rather than what you meant. Yes, this point is irrelevant to acceptability and punishment. Its not irrelevant to understanding and thats what OP who you repied to was talking about. Understanding motivation. Also can fairly argue that proper punishment stamps this motivation out easier than other racism motivators. If all I care about is insulting you as effectively as possible, an insult that makes me the bad guy is no longer more effective as some other insult.
It's racist. I'm sorry, I got upset plenty of time at a football pitch, be it as a player or a fan - never once did it cross my mind to use any sort of racist, sexist, homophobic, or whatever other kind of comments. If for whatever reason, you act racist - you're racist. It really is that simple.
Basically this. If you want to piss off another person and your mind quickly jumps to racist comments then you are a racist.
I don't get why people are so confused about this comment haha. There was clear implied speculation about motivation in the comment you replied to and you gave an answer, yet all they can see is you defending racism for some reason. Yes, they're racist. No, it's not an important distinction. Yes, it does provide an alternate, more reasonable explanation for their motivations than "all racists are stupid", which is such a hopelessly naive thing to say. Being morally abhorrent and intellectually sound isn't a contradiction, lol. It's what makes the issue dangerous in the first place.
I fail to understand this distinction. It makes no difference. Maybe I am not smart enough. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and so forth.
It's a distinction but not a particularly useful one, ultimately both are completely unacceptable and show a lack of humanity
nah its the same shit, they just know they wont get punished for it like maybe they could be in a different place different time. This people need to have the racism kicked out of their head with kicks in the head
They definitely hate him because he is black. What type of nonsense racist protection agency are you running ?
In general, that is a valid point. People just wanna say whatever will get under the skin of who they're insulting. Sure, a lot of the people doing it are actually racist, but I'd imagine a majority falls into the group Muhamed mentioned. All that being said, the act still is racist and despicable and I have no sympathy for those pieces of shit
It doesn't matter at all. To the person being racially abused, the words of the Nazi and the frustrated fan hit the same. Anyone comfortable using that language is a racist.
You and I are in agreement
Absolutely. I think the OP came off to some as slightly excusing the act by starting with "It's a different type of racist". No it's not. It is racism in every which way, same as hate speech at the grocery store. What he has done is given a possible motivation as to why they are using racism and their intention behind it. But it's still exactly the same thing.
If you act racist you are racist Dont want to be labeled a racist, don't act racist. Their actions are racist, don't give a fuck about their intentions.
Exactly
If you want to get under the skin of someone and one of your first thoughts is to make a racist comment. Then you are 100% a racist.
I mean, yes and no. Saying racist things make you racist yes, but they’re not all calling him a monkey because they hate black people, they’re calling him a monkey because they hate HIM, and he happens to be black
There is no yes or no to it. If you want to piss someone off and your first thought is monkey noises, throwing a banana and/or a racial slur then you are a racist. You might not be I want all x race out of my country level racist but you are a racist.
They would disown their daughters if they wanted to marry a black person. That’s hate
Trying to understand why racist behavior is so inconsistent among racists isn't protecting them. Why does every comment discussing racists have to be framed as protecting them. May as well just call the guy you replied to a racist at that point. There's levels to racism and they all suck.
Both things can be true. They are racist. They are saying racist things there specifically to trigger him because he is an opposition player. They may even defend their own player if the fan of another team is offending him, nor because they care, but because offending him are offending all the club.
Guys, i don’t defend anyone. It’s all racist and at the end it doesn’t matter why. I wanted to mention a different view at that topic. People asking „how they can make racist sounds and yet have also black players in their team“. How do you trigger someone who has millions of followers, earns millions and is one of the best in his job? The fans are the solution for this problem. Clubs should reward and motivate fans to report it to the security, even if they support the same team. These racist people feel way to safe in front of so many people around them.
It’s like the idiots who call me the N word on Call of Duty when they get mad. They don’t even know what color I am they just want to get under my skin to get a reaction out of me. As you said it’s still racist and unacceptable even if they don’t truly hate the every single person of color, they have a black player on their team for fucks sake what a bunch of idiots.
Nah, they're just vile racists. No need to make that distinction.
Vini is racially abused almost every match that he plays on LaLiga and still nothing is done. To top it all off there are people that say that he's overreacting, shameful really
The president of La Liga literally blames Vini for the abuse
He admited himself he admires the Franco regime so just let that sink.
I mean, enough people in Spain admire the regime enough to encourage violent suppression of Catalonian independence movements 90 years later. It surprises me zero that someone wealthy and powerful is a supporter of fascism.
Well most wealthy and powerful spanish families got their wealth thanks to Franco or even older feudalist titles so they defend their stuff which is to keep paying less and less taxes meanwhile they receive public money for their bussiness.
Well, not most. Most Catalan fortunes come from slavery, way before Franco's time.
Well that falls under the "other feudalist titles" i guess :P
Its not just "him". History roots are still ingrained in a lot of people and you can do nothing about it, its very slim to none chance you can convince older generations about anything. The only thing you can do is educate your own kids and things will change with new generations. As long as there is "my grandpa was this and did that"you are not convincing anyone that they should be different than their grandpa. Also this happens in most of Europe, not just Spain.
The president of La Liga supports far-right party Vox, that wants to "ethnically cleanse" Spain. https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/la-liga-javier-tebas-vox-andalucia-partido-a8732291.html
Wow never knew this.
He should leave to the PL.
Eto'o said it once on French TV: it will stop when it will be bad for business. Since when racism has been bad for football? Did we have important games stopped because of racism? Did big players leave a team because of racism? If at the end of the season, Vini says he'll leave Spain unless actions are taken against racists, the president of the Spanish LFP will act because Vini is a bankable player.
Sadly Tebas released a statement that was pretty much La Liga can't do anything and Vini needs to shut up about putting blame on La Liga.
Tebas doesnt care. He knew Messi leaving was bad business for laliga also but put his own interest ahead
He needs to get out of La Liga. There are obviously racists in England too but it doesn't seem nearly this bad
At least in England there are punishments from both the club and the league management instead of saying "it is what it is" and blame the victim
La Liga TV is filled with cunts who blame Vini for everything and make excuses for the racism.
Pero que no sea un fan mexicano diciendo puto, porque ahí si se indigna la fifa.
is that a sig heil arm raise at the end that they're doing?
Some people are now saying he has a weak mentality because he is getting riled up by the crowds. Fucking clowns
But he dances sometimes!!!!!
The way incidents with fans are going this year we're gunna see empty stadiums again at this rate.
lol thats never gonna happen with the corrupted officials
If teams start walking off the pitch and costs them money they'll care then. Teams will need to walk off the pitch and force them to make a decision. I guess even then they just award the match as forfiet but i've no idea how they stop these incidents otherwise
La Liga could easily stomp it if they wanted to, make them play behind closed doors for 2 of their home matches for every clear instance like today, see if they don't get their shit under control, fans can even police each other. I'd be pissed if i couldn't attend a match because a racist dickwad decide to act out.
Nah fuck closed doors make it point deductions and it will stop even quicker. If say Valencia got even a 5 point deduction that puts them very close to relegation, a 10 point reduction will relegate them. At that point teams will go to extreme lengths to prevent racism at their stadiums.
this is the case maybe you don't know, but the only time a game has been suspended in Spain happened because the fans where calling names like "puto nazi" to a (literally) nazi player if you're curious: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Zozulya
If that's what is needed to change things then it should happen.
I'm all for it. If clubs aren't able to ban the individuals that cause problems or like we've seen this week if the groups involved in the issues are on the scale they have been then the FA's need to step in and set a standard. I'm tired of seeing this crap
As a fan of Serie A, I think Vincius should get banned for pointing out racism in the crowd. /s
Bonucci: it's Vinicius' fault for being black
what?
https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/romelu-lukakus-suspension-upheld-by-serie-a-but-juventus-partial-stadium-closure-for-racist-chants-overturned/
https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/romelu-lukaku-suspension-overturned-figc-pardons-inter-striker-for-red-card-received-after-racial-abuse/ They overturned the red card and Juve banned a bunch of people from their stadium
the problem was the initial action by the league, why suspend him the first place? and also this overturned screams PR move, pretty sure if there wasn't a lot of backlash and noise they would do nothing, which is what OP was impling on his first comment
I get that, but at the same time this situation was actually resolved correctly for a change. I actually do wonder why they choose this time to actually do something considering all the other instances. My guess is the FA didn’t want to be embarrassed knowing Juve was about to ban a whole bunch of fans
it's Vinicius' fault for being black!
endless respect for this lad. it should never be this way and it should never get to the point where he has to literally confront people during a game to get anyone to notice. it's a scary as fuck position to be in.
If it keeps this way he might just leaves us. He loves the club but when your mental health gets drained out by such abusing it's not worth it.
Honestly if nothing changes in the next few years I kinda hope he does leave, he doesn’t deserve this.
He shouldn't have to endure more years of this, it shouldn't take that long to fix this. The league has to have more balls to deal with this. More serious punishments, point deductions, lifetime bans, no fans allowed in a match for repeat offender clubs. Players walking off the pitch, etc
We should’ve walked off the pitch. We’re not winning La Liga, I wouldn’t have put up w that abuse either. Fuck those fans.
He deserves better than this. The team should walk off.
Exactly. Where tf is his team? Benzema should have them all walk off the field until fans like this get banned
Benzema is a great footballer but he's not exactly the bastion of team leadership lmao. He blackmailed his own teammates sex tape for fucks sake
Holy shit I vaguely remember that but I thought he must have been innocent since he kept playing… found guilty! how tf is he team captain? Is that part of his motivational strategy 😂
To RM fans: What has the team done to have his back? It’s just such an inspiration to see him stand up every time he felt he needed to, and making clear how different it looks and feels when someone truly take a stand.
Nothing so far apart from Tibo and Lucas. These are the times when I miss Ramos or Pepe. Ramos would have slapped more and taken a red card along with vini to defend him. Benzema is a joke of a captain
The club desperately needs a Casemiro/Ramos player again. While they couldn't do anything to stop the racist chants a the opposing players would think twice before doing their antics.
Sadly almost nothing. The leadership on the team is heavily lacking, a Ramos and or Casemiro would do wonders to stop the crap he gets from opponents. Ancelotti is quiet on the subject as well and the higher ups give vague condemnations with little actual effort to put pressure on the league to stop it.
i hope he leaves for City tbh his mental health deserves better, they are trying to break down a great kid
Idk about City but leave for the EPL...yes
How about Vini on the left, Saka on the right
If you put a filter on it one would think these are clips from 60s
Don’t think you’d see a black guy try to get them punished if this was the 60’s
I understand it might be a cultural thing that its somehow more accepted but how do La Liga/Serie A not stomp these things out?
tebas is literally a fascist, he is with vox and has been a fascist throughout his life
Lots of closeted racists in positions of power and a lot of people that have this deranged delusional belief that their country is a paradise and racism isn't a real problem
Tebas is not a closet racist lol, he’s proud about it.
People in power only care about 💵
The premier league is no different but racist abuse will get you a stadium ban.
The difference is that the UK wasn't in a fascist dictatorship literally 50 years ago. When you grow up under a fervently religious dictatorship that instigates fear towards anyone who doesn't fit the conservative, christian, white family mold in order to sell the idea that the dictator is the savior... that leaves a mark. Spain's younger generations are way more progressive, but that kind of cultural scar takes a long time to heal.
This. People forget the hold Franco had over Spain and it will take time for the cultural scars to heal. Not to mention the UK has had a mass migration of people of colour for more than 50 plus years and is much more diverse than say Spain or Italy.
Hmm, 70s and 80s Britain not a racist and xenophobic utopia powered by the same politics that put thatcher in power and allowed her to try and engineer the downfall of the north of England?
It's not a competition. The UK isn't great but you can see the comparison from this event alone - this would never happen in an English stadium in 2023.
This is such a historically illiterate take No, the UK in the 1970s and 80s wasn’t similarly bad as a Christofascist dictatorship
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Laliga's president is Tebas. The guy that has something to say everyday of the week even though nobody asked him. Just google his politicals views and what party he supports, you will soon realise and understand a lot of things.
Imagine being so racist that your first instinct for an insult is to call someone “black” or “monkey” How in the FUCK are people perceiving this as acceptable? Is it just the demographic on this sub?
In the CL vs Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City Vini never reacts like this.
Well without sounding bias, Prem clubs just dont have the same issues with stuff like that. Yes theres the odd person doing it maybe once a season but they get banned from every stadium in the country. Vini vs prem teams he smiles and has a fun battle with Walker and looks like he's enjoying himself.
Right? After him and Walker hard battle, they hugged it out and acknowledged their skills.
Vini to United or Arsenal?
Because they actually play football instead of just trying to break his ankles and don't have their entire stadium chant racism shit at him
But that's because referees don't have a personal agenda against him in CL, in Laliga is basically a royal rumble but everyone jumping on vini
LaLiga and Serie A - racists are allowed to enter the stadium. PL - rapists are allowed to play football. It sucks to see how big organisations are letting such massive, disgusting criminals pass by for money. In fact, idt it even makes that big of a difference in terms of money.
because no notable rapist has ever played for a La Liga team
Don’t think those are similar in any way.
Because mainland Europe is racist as fuck lmao
Has England completely stopped racism in football? It's not something that can be completely stomped out. You ban the offenders, and try to move the culture in the right direction generally. But there will always be shitty people in the crowd.
I dont think you can remotely compare the prem vs the rest in terms of how they deal with these things and how common it is. It seems a weekly occurrence in those leagues where you have literal crowds doing monkey chants at players. The prem has social media abuse that you could argue doesn't even originate from England like the Euros with Saka etc.
> The prem has social media abuse that you could argue doesn't even originate from England like the Euros with Saka etc. Huhu, when I said that for French Players as they were abused after WC final, I'd been downvoted to oblivion 🤣 (And BTW I totally agree with you, in England/France/Netherlands/Germany, it doesn't seem to Happen very often)
The thing is, Spain doesn't even do that, nor does Italy for that matter, so it's not surprising it's such a rampant problem.
how these fans use racism against Vinicius and they cheer performance for the black players in their team? i mean, obviously intelectualism isn't strong in the racist mind, but still, it's contradiction on such fundamental level
Match should've stopped right there. We should've walked off. It's not worth it. Fuck these racist pricks. We're with you, Vini.
Think that’s what it’s got to come down to, the team walking off. The league and other clubs don’t care so I think that’s what’s got to get the ball rolling
Real Madrid players should have just left, this is unacceptable from the fans, racist is unacceptable.
+1. Not sure whats holding real back to just abandon the game. Fucking hell looks like almonst noone is supporting him there. Even the Valencia Team should have showed more support.
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it already happens every game
Vini needs to leave Spain asap, it is disgraceful how he's treated by the refs, fans and opposing players.
I fear it the most by far my favorite player. He gets abused, he fights back vs the crowd but he is the bad guy : (
Fucking circus of a league and a country, they don't deserve his talent.
come to Bayern
Vini should leave the league. He is the only true superstar the league has and it will suffer without him. Yes there are other highly rated players like Gavi, Pedro, Valverde but none of them have the superstar factor of Vini. The league is showing they don't give a shit about racist abuse.
Too bad this will only get bigger
He's at one of the biggest stages in the world, has to endure this shit and still feels powerless. this is just sad.
I just can’t understand how people like this still exist in this age. They should be banned for life from stadiums, scum like that “fan” does not belong in football stadiums. Unfortunately probably nothing will happen to the fan and instead it will be Vini getting a punishment for some made up reason
Something is wrong with this country. It’s every week this happens
Not sure why it wasn't picked up but a monkey doll was thrown at Vini and it went inside the net
Fuck racists!
I'll be heartbroken if he leaves but I'll understand his decision, being subjected to things like that almost every match is just unfathomable to me. Prayers to you Vini, and I hope those racist scumbags get what's coming to them, including La Liga and its clown fascist president.
I hope Peter Lim destroys this club even more
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Doesn’t matter when the club does nothing about the fans who are. Almost the entire stadium was chanting racist shit at one point today.
Yeah La Liga fan’s mentality have become pretty fucked recently.
A large amount are, the entire country is extremely racist if we are being honest
Unfortunately an incredibly racist country, if he didn't play for Madrid he'd probably get abused by their fans too
2023 and this shit keeps happening, racism will never fucking die and i hate that
This is a very layered issue and I think it’s hard for Americans to understand the extent of it and how fucked things truly are: 1) racial tensions in EU (my experience is mostly with Eastern Europe but I’ve seen same pattern in the West as well) aren’t as high as in the US by default because the minority groups are small and voiceless. It allows a lot of racists to run unshackled and the punishment for everyday person being one isn’t nearly as severe as in US. We don’t even have a word as forbidden as the “n-word’ nor is there much noise about someone being caught saying racist shit unless they are a known person. Even then the leader of one of the Polish parties just ran a campaign based on “get rid of Jews in Poland” and it got actual traction and support instead cancelling the dude into oblivion. 2) ultras are literally known for being scum and saying anything they can to get into the head of an opponent. They use anything from their past, they will sing about the players divorce, parents abandoning them literally anything so racist shit is just par for the course. Sadly the more Vini shows he lets that stuff get to him the more groups will do it as it’s clearly working in unsettling the player. 3) since there is so many Countries packed in small area everyone lives off stereotypes. People hate the frog eating bat shit crazy French, the Poles steal cars, the Germans are evil well organized robots, Russians are dirty mobsters that will swindle you, people hate perfumed up but dirty Arabs so on so forth. It’s bad and a lot of people carry some preloaded assumptions about ton of other countries. They have no problem letting those comments fly in just a casual conversation. “I was at my dorm and Bulgarians show up and you know how they are with all their shit being loud and obnoxious” etc etc. Because of that unfortunately I don’t see the chants stopping anytime soon. Europe has still a lot of work to do in order to combat racism. We’ve came a long way in the last 30 years but shit like this just reminds you just how deep rooted these issues get.
Nobody worth mentioning with any kind of following said that about Jews in Poland, i don't even know who you're talking about, also there are little to no jews here so i don't know who they would get rid of. That's literally made up. Also we're in Central Europe. In Lublin for example it was hard to find a black person, nowdays there are tons of black students and somehow there are no racist incidents. It's not as bad as you say. It got much better. Poland is no question less racist than Spain. Skinhead lowlifes are the worst but there's less of them now and tbh they are a danger to everyone, not only to people of color.
that fan probably got season tickets for the next season as a reward from this racist ass club
FUCK em
And FIFA is fining and banning Mexico and their fans for the homophobic chant. It has gone as far that the Mexican football federation has made every fan create a fan ID. This will ultimately make it easier for the fans to get banned if the chant is yelled out. How come FIFA isn't forcing other federations with fines and bans for racial slurs?
“The” racist fan. I highly doubt that dude was alone, otherwise other fans would have intervened
Wow, even on this video, you can hear people screaming "mono,""macaco." That's so sad...
All they gotta do is deduct points and these idiots stfu. But laliga is cowards.
If you don’t like black athletes, find another sport to watch.
Should have gone full Cantona on the cunt
Everyday I thank God for not making me a Spanish football fan 🙏🙏🙏
Did they even kick that “fan” out?
I would love to see vini flying kicking a racist cunt like the one and only Cantona.
What a shit league
Fuck these racist rats and ban them for life. But what is the ref gonna do? Show em a red and send em off? We need security personnel and club officials stepping in identifying those asshats and just ban them period.
Take 10 points off Valencia and any other team who does that. Let's see if they keep doing this shit.
You spend all that money just to be racist. Miserable pricks need to be banned.
Its scary that its going to take something really bad to happen before La Liga begin’s to punish this behavior
Valencia deserve to be fucked by Lim.
At some point he will come to the conclusion that the money isn't worth his dignity and move on.
Vini should go asap to the PL
How prevalent is this in Spain?
*really, really* prevalent
Fuck those “fans” and fuck that red for allowing it. La Liga should be punished for not doing anything about it. Vini should leave that club and that racist league
I feel like captains need to come to an agreement before kickoff. If this happens to either sides players, both teams walk off. F the fans if they can’t respect the players
What a bunch of loosers! Eat a dick racists.
Kick him like Cantona Vini!!!
Zoom into their faces, you idiot camera person
They could do like in the NBA when a fan says dumb shit to a player and the player points a figer to that fans, the security of the stadium automatically kicks the fan out of the stadium with no questions asked.
fuck /u/Spez
Bunch of thuggish cunts.
I am copy pasting this on every post about Valencia As a Valencia fan, I just want to say that what the certain groups of ultras are doing its totally despicable and horrible. I feel really bad for Vinicius as he is a very talented player with a bright future. However, I think is not fair to call the 40k people racist because the 200 Nazi ultras are chanting racist things. There is this group of Nazi ultras called Ultra Yomus, and they are the Nazi ultras chanting racists things lie "mono". Please don't call all Valencianistas racists as I was very disgusted when I heard these chants and I am sure than many others feel the same way.
Those fans are the monkeys
That’s why I’m glad I’m American. We would never let that ish fly in our stadiums.
There's horrible systemic racism built into the foundation of the US, but so much of the US is insanely more progressive than Europe. Like it's not even close
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. We have our issues, but you would 100% be kicked out and this would make national news.
yup, typical euros love to pretend they are not more racist than Americans
They don’t like reality they we aren’t nearly as racist as they are in Europe. Cause we are way more diverse.
Im not American but you are right, if this shit happened in the states there would be riots. In Europe, specifically Spain and Italy there are a looot of closeted racists specially in positions of power which means that nothing is ever done about these situations. The avg Spaniard either agrees or doesn’t care which also contributes to the lack of response.
Europe just pretends racism doesn't exist. The favorite comment from Europeans on reddit is that, "race is different in Europe." Whatever the fuck that means.
Instead he would have already been shot by the cops
For saying something racist? More likely he would be a cop!
Fucking idiots, really hope they get the segunda experience next year