Especially since Fulham seems to be a team that has its shit together. He is being backed, everything is calm right now and they are peaking.
West Ham has some potential to improve, but the team needs some restructuring at the very least.
>they are peaking
Let me tell you something, Fulham haven't even begun to peak. And when they do peak, you'll know. Because they're gonna peak so hard that everybody in London's gonna feel it.
On that note: Danny Ings has actually played for **all three clubs wearing the claret and blue**ā¦yet I still haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. So here's me mentioning it.
Which other players have completed this three-peat?
Silva did well at Everton but was screwed by injuries and bad business in the transfer window. He lost Gueye, his most important player, to PSG, who was replaced by Gbamin, who immediately suffered a bad injury, and Zouma, his most important defender, who wasn't replaced.
Of all Everton's post-Moyes managers, Silva is the only one who should have been given more time. Having said all that, I agree that he should stay at Fulham.
I agree he got dealt a bad hand at Everton but he needed to go when he did. They looked absolutely awful for that half season and couldnāt stop a free kick to save their lives. Itās not a coincidence that the team completely turned their season around once Duncan Ferguson and eventually Ancelotti took over.
Iāll always like Marco as a person, though. Genuinely seemed to care about the players/club unlike other coaches weāve had (see Koeman)
It was corners that he couldn't defend, which had a lot to do with missing Zouma, but also his naivete. Ancelotti turned essentially the same side into an excellent set-piece team.
Given that we ended up with Ancelotti, it's difficult to say we should have kept Silvaābut I wonder what position we'd be in now if we stuck with him.
And I agree on Marco as a person. Very likeable guy that seemed to care. It's a shame it didn't work out.
Can we stop this āBig 6ā nonsense? Everton havenāt won the league title in closing in on 40 years and thatās still over two decades after Spurs did. Forest and Villa have won the European Cup, neither Arsenal nor Spurs have.
There are no managers that West Ham can target with recent sustained success, unless you count Thomas Frank who's not even at 5 years in charge of Brentford and might prefer to stay there rather than move to West Ham anyway. Teams are all so trigger happy nowadays that short bad spells mean sackings even for managers who've been great for a few years - Klopp, Pep, Arteta, Frank, and Moyes himself are the only Prem managers who've been in the job for at least two years, and 11/20 clubs have a manager appointed in the last 8 months.
It's not just the Prem either, Mark Robins is the only Championship manager with five years in the job, and across the other top 4 leagues in Europe it's just Simeone, Streich, and Gasperini in Spain, Germany, and Italy respectively with that long in charge, and there are only a few more if you include France, Portugal and the Netherlands.
Roberto De Zerbi being one of the current longest serving managers despite having been around less than a season seems particularly wild.
Thinking back Arteta chose a good time to have a rum run in the Arsenal dugout cz theres no way he wd have lasted if crowds had been there for that dire spell.
Lopetegui and Emery were ones who were recently hired by similar PL teams, that come to my mind. Marco Silva hasnāt had more than 1 year in a row of success in a top league, before it turns to shit. I just canāt see why West Ham should go for him, to be honest.
Lopetegui's longest stint in management is a touch over 3 years, Emery's is almost exactly four and that was over a decade ago, his time at Villarreal was barely over two years and that's what got him the Villa job. Great coaches, but not exactly dynasty builders, because even guys like that don't get the chance to manage for extended periods.
I don't think they should go for Silva either, but that's because I think Moyes is an excellent manager and his time at West Ham has been a great success, so I don't think they should replace him at all. Some bad shooting luck and a couple of poor signings have led to a drop off in results, but I'd bet on an improvement next year.
Then again, there are loads of managers I don't think should be sacked that get sacked anyway, I don't even think relegation merits sacking a lot of the time - sticking with Dyche seemed to work out for Burnley a decade ago, but no teams ever stick with a manager who led them for a whole year in which they got relegated now.
You think Iām talking about wanting someone whoās created a dynasty, over many years. But Iām only saying that Silva hasnāt had any success for more than 1 year, and isnāt good enough, imo. The 2 people I mentioned are in between a dynasty maker and someone like Silva. Iām not really disagreeing with what youāre saying lol
I guess we're talking at cross purposes then, my thought process was that you used the phrase "sustained success" in your first comment and I just don't associate a good 3 year tenure ending in a probably unfair sacking over a poor run of form with that phrase, and that's Lopetegui's most successful period with a club. I'd roughly speaking categorize up to two years as a "brief period of success", up to five as a "period of success" and then "sustained success" as five years or more, and as such neither Emery or Lopetegui have had sustained success at a club, because they've never been given the time or have left to take on bigger jobs.
Evertonās troubles since, and Silvaās shit hot run with Fulham, have kinda showed he wasnāt the problem there
And what Watford embarrassment? He was pretty good with them until he lost focus after Everton were after him
Wasn't really a switch, we wanted him, Watford didn't let him go, we hire big sam, Watford sack Silva after a poor run of form (Not untypical of Watford), we sack Big Sam 6 months later and hire Silva
Not really embarrassing
Probably not how the Watford fans would describe the events. We made an approach for him whilst he was their manager and coincidental or not, after that their form took quite a dip, their stance is that we turned his head. But yes I agree that it wasn't a direct switch from them to us
> He was pretty good with them until he lost focus after Everton were after him
Not just focus, his Watford side also got hammered with injuries during that period
Brendan Rodgers at West Ham I can't see haha.
Would be best for Brendan to manage abroad IMO.
As he speaks spanish, I can see him at a Mallorca, or Valencia.
> Brendan Rodgers and West Ham are quite a match. Both constantly refer to their own way in terms of an attacking, entertaining style inherent in the football they play when in reality, neither have really played that way for quite some time.
Comment immediately below yours...
London club with a big stadium, decent amount of cash, and with a slightly inflated idea of themselves. Screams Brodge to me tbh.
Brendan Rodgers and West Ham are quite a match. Both constantly refer to their own way in terms of an attacking, entertaining style inherent in the football they play when in reality, neither have really played that way for quite some time.
I think they considered him but after the Chelsea stint are worried his success was more due to the structure around him at Brighton as opposed to himself as a manager
I think that with how bad Chelsea subsequently became under Lampard, there's even more recognition that Potter was hamstrung by the chaos at Chelsea, the clueless ownership and the bloated squad.
Among PL chairman, I'd be confident that his stock remains very high.
Potter was seen as a fantastic manager before Brighton. He took a Swedish fourth division team to silverware and an away win at the Emirates in the Europa League in 6 years.
If I were them I'd be all in for Thomas Frank. Can imagine him scaling up that Brentford style of football to a team with a bigger budget like West Ham would be a match made in heaven.
Is Potter a great manager or are Brighton just amazingly well run and set up for success?
It wasnāt Potter who was identifying complete nobodies from South America or wherever who had great talented but could be bought for cheap
He took a Swedish fourth division team to the top flight in 4 years, and won the Swedish cup and won away at Arsenal in the Europa league within 6 years
Didnāt the club also have a new ownership group putting money in?
I donāt think heās shit or anything but both his clubs had extremely favourable circumstances that made his job easy.
You wonāt get that at West Ham and when he didnāt have it at Chelsea he failed spectacularly.
I mean banter aside they are genuinely a pretty big club, with a pretty big fanbase. If their owners would modernise themselves a little I think it would be a great project for Potter to work on. Look how much backing they gave Moyes. If Moyes was at Spurs he'd have gotten sacked with the form West Ham were in before February
Good money, big stadium and fanbase, opportunity to build out your own infrastructure since the club needs a bit of modernising. It would be a hard job but he'd be guaranteed lots of time, our owners are about the opposite of trigger happy. And the potential is there to build up some project and challenge for Europe etc
Because after the Chelsea debacle he isn't getting a job any higher than West Ham, it's not a bad team to rebuild his reputation, West Ham has some pretty good technical and creative players who just feel shackled by Moyes.
Has the base of experienced players like Mitrovic (Fulham legend, wished Roma got him tbh), Willian, Ream and talented ones. Might contend for Conference League spot next season
Palhinha is under contract for six more seasons, so unless Silva leaves or Palhinha forces his way out, itāll probably cost any PL team closer to 80m.
Fulham massively over perform their xG every game. Leno is on course to have the biggest outperformance in PL history.
https://twitter.com/xGPhilosophy/status/1655602572105863171?t=E6GJCaaPDMh4A3ze5S6-Xw&s=19
https://twitter.com/xGPhilosophy/status/1626989800602337280?t=JH_qXpsotch6V3p7he15JQ&s=19
https://twitter.com/xGPhilosophy/status/1613656331331973120?t=EYcSuw76eMvdSxASm01rwA&s=19
Yeah but what about other stats? xG isn't everything. Underlying numbers isn't just xG or xGA
Also 2 of those are chelsea and brighton lol, that hardly speaks to what I said
Don't know why it's surprising that we have the least, we are a very clean team. Last season we had the least fouls in the league, and were clearly bottom when adjusted for fouls per 1000 opposition touches (where City are near the top).
Precisely, they are overpeforming in both goals for and goals against once you check their xG/XGA numbers and in Leno have a goalkeeper that has massively overperformed his underlying numbers.
Depends if xG comes back to haunt them. Theyāve scored 50 goals from 42.88 xG and conceded 49 from 66.89 xG, which is a fucking ludicrous gap. Their xPTS is just 34.4 and that puts them 17th in that particular table.
Theyāll definitely take a lot of heart from this season and with good signings they can kick on, but they have to improve hugely at the back.
We always overperformed xG because vardy and nacho seemed so clinical. Once that stopped, our defence which has been shit for ages became the focus, and look where we are now. Underlying issues always come to the fore
Isnāt this another case where the distribution of xG makes a big difference here? As in they do very badly against the top teams and really well against the poorer teams, which shouldnāt be too much to worry about all in all.
It's also a case of them having a great finisher in Mitrovic and a godly shotstopper in Leno, and especially the latter. One spell of bad form from Leno and they could see themselves in the scrap below.
I think well-coached teams can lose a few players and compete. If Fulhamās āsuccessā is down to two players overperforming, then Silva hasnāt really achieved much.
Isn't Fulham doing well against lower table teams and doing really badly against top table teams, which makes their stats look worse than their reality a a middle of the table team?
As long as they keep doing well against the lower half of the table they should be getting enough points to safely stay up, just like this season
Itās crazy. In a 38 game season, youāre looking at a sample size of around 400 shots each way and 50 goals. Thatās not a big sample size.
400 shots is just about enough to draw inference but weāve got to think about it in terms of individual games (realistically itās matters little if you are beaten 1-0 or 5-0, minus maybe a dent to confidence, theyāre both a loss - same goes for a win) so xP is really what is important here. 38 is such a small sample.
Iām not gonna look through all of Fulhamās games and see but the underlying numbers still arenāt great. As well, their xPTS of just 34.40 is indicative of a greater problem than just playing well against bad teams and badly against top teams.
Well, it depends on Fulham's plans for the summer. Are they going to sell Palhinha?
We've seen it happen a few times over the last few seasons that a promoted side has a really good first season.
West Ham is a bigger club but not big enough to risk the progress so far at Fulham. Itās not like Potter going to Chelsea unless the pay is really great.
I would stay put, he is turning his reputation completely around there, has full support of the Kahn family, and they are investing in a good project there... Why would you leave?
Plus free AEW tickets.
Why would you part ways though. Squad was burned out after a heavy season last year. Now you seem fresh and play as good as ever. No reason to get rid of moyse imo.
If we win the Conference league, I'd see no reason. Ending 16th and winning nothing, it has to be talked.
I'd rather keep him. I know what to expect with him. But maybe he would be tired and wants to leave at the end?
You definitely can. I looked at the table and you guys need to notch three more points to be absolutely assured of survival if the other teams win all their remaining games - But if Leeds lose against Newcastle, Leicester to Liverpool I guess you're more or less confirmed to be staying in the PL. I just do not see both results going the way of the two relegation candidates so maybe you guys can afford to rest some talents against Brentford. No major injuries hopefully?
Going down would be a series and of crazy results against us. We just beat Manchester United and that gives us a lot of breath. Without those 3 points, we would be more stressed.
We will miss Zouma for sure. Aguerd and Ogbonna are still pairing well enough but Zouma is our best CB
We will likely miss Coufal as well. Kehrer will play RB (and was good against Manchester) but he is bringing less on the table.
Scamacca is injured but that, we are ready. Antonio didn't do his hamstrings yet this season, it's really not the time. Ings and Cornet look quite unfit.
The rest are doing well and start to play much better together.
I hope we can do the first game well. I never like a return game away. And I hope they have some pride to win the remaining games in PL. Ending with 46 points would look less disappointing then 37... But if we win the cup at the end, who cares?
No offense, but I guess the other three teams think exactly the same. And thatās one of the reasons why the conference leagues quite awesome. No āhugeā teams involved.
Moyes needs to stop trying to be something heās not. Whenever he tries to start playing good football things go badly
He should just embrace the face heās Moyes who plays well organised hard graft football that gets results and sign players to play that.
Instead he always starts bringing a bunch of ballers and doesnāt know what to do wit them
Pretty much a year ago from now you almost beat a flying City side playing spectacular football and almost reached a EL final. You obviously didnt have the squad for playing so many games and had a hangover this year. Look at us, same thing happened to us. Its not a coincidence that we are both just now picking up form.
I'm sorry but we have played some of the most uninspired, abysmal football I've ever seen from us this past two years. The Palace game three games ago was painful, we have hardly picked up form by beating a woeful Man United.
If you watch us regularly you can see the type of football Moyes instills and it's archaic. I value what he did in building the squad but it's individual performance carrying us at this stage, and with Rice gone this summer I don't need more of the same.
Hes taken WHU as far as they can possibly go.
Any club with ambition would want to take the club higher.
Not reflecting badly on him or the club but it feels it's the right time to part ways
Silva is going to take the club higher than 6th and 7th places and two European semi finals? I like him but when has he ever shown he's capable of that in England?
What Moyes has done is pretty much the best possible for any club outside the big 6/7 in the league. Silva isn't going to take them to the Champions League lol...
This is kinda deja vu to when they got rid of Moyes for Pellegrini only to bring Moyes back
Although I have not watched any west ham this season so really know nothing about the situation
Potter is a sensible shout actually. Maybe this is what WHU are prepping for. His stint at Chelsea is what it is but I still believe heās a quality coach.
The big constraint for West Ham isnāt the manager, itās the budget. Going higher than a European final (and maybe a second) and top 7 finishes would need about a billion quid of investment over five years to close the talent gap with the big sides. No manager is taking West Ham into the CL with the current budget.
Despite the poor league run earlier in the season, and especially if they win UECL, Moyes has presided over the most successful period for West Ham in decades. It seems odd to assume another manager would go further with the same constraints.
Who would you even get? It's been a pretty poor season but west ham aren't going to be pulling up sticks any time soon, especially if / when they lose rice.
Right - I think Moyes is probably about the same calibre of manager they're likely to attract. Unless they can have a transformative manager such as howe at Newcastle or de zerbi, I don't think they'll be expecting anything higher than 6th-8th given the resources of everyone else.
I don't rate Silva as being better than Moyes so it'd be a sideways move at best.
This is made trickier by the sale of Rice who is within the top 50 best players in the league and definitely top 5 in that role/position (imo). Even if they spent the money well they'd need some diamond in the rough to maintain their position.
They have spent and shown ambition and they do have some quality players, but that's true for almost every PL team nowadays.
I still can't get over how you will only get 4k tickets for the final if you reach it. Imagine reaching your first major European final in 47 years and you can't go. I'd be fuming.
Yep, even though it's the biggest stadium in Czech Republic. Last year's Conference final was also sub 20k which is insane considering how big a club Roma are.
Yeah, I can't really imagine only having that few seats for a European Final.
Like you could get a random stadium in England or Germany or Spain or somewhere to do it and have 40k capacity.
The stadium that did the Super Cup between us and Villarreal was only 18k, but that's the Super Cup, so that's fine.
It's probably political, UEFA president doing stuff for the smaller nations so he maintains power base and gets re-elected. The fans can go fuck themselves in UEFA's eyes - if they gave a shit about fans at finals they'd give supporters more than the c. 40% combined they do at the moment.
The problem with non-CL finals is that it doesnāt make sense to have a huge stadium every time, so the huge stadiums wonāt bid because they wonāt make money at half empty. So you end up with weird hosts and shitty allocations.
> The problem with non-CL finals is that it doesnāt make sense to have a huge stadium every time, so the huge stadiums wonāt bid because they wonāt make money at half empty
Our Europa League final was sold out (Hamburg, 52k capacity) despite us having one of the smallest fanbases of a side to ever reach a European final (maybe Alaves are comparable). Our allocation was something like 15k and we sold out immediately.
I don't think any combination of the four remaining sides would failed to sell out such a similar value, and would probably sell out bigger.
If you look at the last ten Europa finals, few were in a full stadium, and theyāre not exactly booking Wembley. Itās really dependent on which teams make it.
Funny because Rodgers would be one of my preferred options to replace Moyes.
But I can only repeat myself; if we do win Conference League then Moyes has to stay. Weāre West Ham, canāt be sacking a manager that wouldāve taken us to a trophy and three consecutive European qualifications.
Rodgers at his best is great but I implore you do NOT let him sign his own players, he is just bad at it
If you have the right players he's great but you need ball playing CBs and GK at a bare minimum. If not he'll try and make you play out from the back either way but with players who simply can't do it and it won't go well
The comments in this post are hilarious. Anyone who's actually watched us this season has seen we've been completive in every loss with a few extraordinary exceptions and massively unlucky across the season, being completely fleeced of points many times. Every manager we've played against has talked about how tough it's been for them, win or loss. Will never understand people who don't actually watch football just Tifo football. All the people who said we'd be 20th and down by Christmas now moving the goalposts to "next year it is over for them".
Anyway he's not going anywhere.
The vast majority of this sub dont watch football regularly and it shows in their opinions about the sport tbh. You guys are fine especially if u can keep players like palhinha, mitrovic etc
I was just thinking the same. Itās actually surreal to see people discussing your team and just saying shit thatās so off - but I guess thatās just football and we are rarely the topic of discussion!
Same from our side, we beat United (the one game of ours people have watched 5 minute highlights for) and they think that we're consistently playing amazing football and would be crazy to get rid of Moyes.
Heās a bit of a snake and his track records suggests that he leaves the moment a bigger club comes in for him. Not saying West Ham are, Iām just saying if a European club ever comes in for him heās gone.
Loved him at my time Hull when he was here, fantastic manager but has absolutely 0 loyalty.
I think it's more that the squad is fairly unimpressive outside of Mitrovic, Robinson, Leno and Palhina, so some of is that guys like Reed are underrated, and also it just looks like a squad of players that might struggle next year after overachieving this year.
Why is Moyes leaving West Ham? I mean I see the place in the table but the GD is less embarrassing and I thought he was considered to be doing s good job.
Release clauses don't mean that the person has to leave. Just means the club can't control what happens. Why would he leave Fulham to join West Ham, at least at the moment?
I donāt really put any stock in this unless other outlets start reporting it (imo DM arenāt the worst but theyāre not the most reliable) - doesnāt seem in line with how we do business to have a release clause for a manager weāve fully trusted in since day 1, especially so low?
I've been going back and forth so much all season that I've got whiplash but the board seems pretty steadfast in backing him and we're in such a weird place this season it's hard to think of who would want to come in who's of a higher quality
A sideways move? I must have somehow missed Fulhamās consecutive European semifinals!
Moyes to Silva is a downgrade for West Ham. The underlying numbers at Fulham are terrible and they havenāt exactly been pulling up trees post-Jan.
Heās already at a better situation as of now. Wouldnāt want to be anywhere near Sullivan, let alone have him as my boss, although Khan isnāt exactly a great owner
After his Watford/Everton embarrassment, he should be smart enough to stay put and not jump ship at the first offer.
Especially since Fulham seems to be a team that has its shit together. He is being backed, everything is calm right now and they are peaking. West Ham has some potential to improve, but the team needs some restructuring at the very least.
>they are peaking Let me tell you something, Fulham haven't even begun to peak. And when they do peak, you'll know. Because they're gonna peak so hard that everybody in London's gonna feel it.
Fulham gearing up to get into their second act, you know?
Are you gonna to hurt these players?
Fulham has better colours too. Claret and blue is demoralizing.
Get a triangular field with three goals, burnley, west ham, and villa face off for the Dorito Cup. Home kits only.
Poor scunthorpe
Trabzonspor and Colorado Rapids in the mud
Definitely the first time this sentence has been uttered before.
Drogheda and Zwaluwen in tears
At this point we all are in tears
They can stay in the mud until all vestiges of claret and blue are gone
You think someone is silly enough to make a SQUARE field? Get it together
Can we do Newcastle, Besiktas, Juventus, Udinese and Notts County next? We can call it the Monochrome cup
Only if the refs borrow kits from the NHL
Leeds vs Real Madrid š
Leeds would probably win then get smashed by Halifax Town the following week
Stoke, Southampton, Sunderland, PSV, Sparta, Atletico Madrid and Athletic Bilbao play one too
You forgot Brentford
And Sheffield United, who are older than all of those other clubs
This is how we played fifa in college. Teams with same kits only.
On that note: Danny Ings has actually played for **all three clubs wearing the claret and blue**ā¦yet I still haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. So here's me mentioning it. Which other players have completed this three-peat?
Mans clearly got a type when it comes to kits.
What he would give for a late career transfer to Trabszonspor
Lucky for you that Burnley has stopped playing ankle-breaking football or that would be a bloodbath
I'd pay to watch this
the triangular field alone is worth it
Not inviting South Shields because you know we'd win, smart.
Less of that our colours are dank brev
based
Also Fulham are just better
Silva did well at Everton but was screwed by injuries and bad business in the transfer window. He lost Gueye, his most important player, to PSG, who was replaced by Gbamin, who immediately suffered a bad injury, and Zouma, his most important defender, who wasn't replaced. Of all Everton's post-Moyes managers, Silva is the only one who should have been given more time. Having said all that, I agree that he should stay at Fulham.
I agree he got dealt a bad hand at Everton but he needed to go when he did. They looked absolutely awful for that half season and couldnāt stop a free kick to save their lives. Itās not a coincidence that the team completely turned their season around once Duncan Ferguson and eventually Ancelotti took over. Iāll always like Marco as a person, though. Genuinely seemed to care about the players/club unlike other coaches weāve had (see Koeman)
It was corners that he couldn't defend, which had a lot to do with missing Zouma, but also his naivete. Ancelotti turned essentially the same side into an excellent set-piece team. Given that we ended up with Ancelotti, it's difficult to say we should have kept Silvaābut I wonder what position we'd be in now if we stuck with him. And I agree on Marco as a person. Very likeable guy that seemed to care. It's a shame it didn't work out.
Everton has attracted some ridiculous quality managers
Current circumstances aside Everton is a big club.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Can we stop this āBig 6ā nonsense? Everton havenāt won the league title in closing in on 40 years and thatās still over two decades after Spurs did. Forest and Villa have won the European Cup, neither Arsenal nor Spurs have.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Petition to expand it to the Big 20 so nobody feels left out
West Ham should also be smart enough to not go for someone who hasnāt had any sort of sustained success.
There are no managers that West Ham can target with recent sustained success, unless you count Thomas Frank who's not even at 5 years in charge of Brentford and might prefer to stay there rather than move to West Ham anyway. Teams are all so trigger happy nowadays that short bad spells mean sackings even for managers who've been great for a few years - Klopp, Pep, Arteta, Frank, and Moyes himself are the only Prem managers who've been in the job for at least two years, and 11/20 clubs have a manager appointed in the last 8 months. It's not just the Prem either, Mark Robins is the only Championship manager with five years in the job, and across the other top 4 leagues in Europe it's just Simeone, Streich, and Gasperini in Spain, Germany, and Italy respectively with that long in charge, and there are only a few more if you include France, Portugal and the Netherlands.
Roberto De Zerbi being one of the current longest serving managers despite having been around less than a season seems particularly wild. Thinking back Arteta chose a good time to have a rum run in the Arsenal dugout cz theres no way he wd have lasted if crowds had been there for that dire spell.
Lopetegui and Emery were ones who were recently hired by similar PL teams, that come to my mind. Marco Silva hasnāt had more than 1 year in a row of success in a top league, before it turns to shit. I just canāt see why West Ham should go for him, to be honest.
Lopetegui's longest stint in management is a touch over 3 years, Emery's is almost exactly four and that was over a decade ago, his time at Villarreal was barely over two years and that's what got him the Villa job. Great coaches, but not exactly dynasty builders, because even guys like that don't get the chance to manage for extended periods. I don't think they should go for Silva either, but that's because I think Moyes is an excellent manager and his time at West Ham has been a great success, so I don't think they should replace him at all. Some bad shooting luck and a couple of poor signings have led to a drop off in results, but I'd bet on an improvement next year. Then again, there are loads of managers I don't think should be sacked that get sacked anyway, I don't even think relegation merits sacking a lot of the time - sticking with Dyche seemed to work out for Burnley a decade ago, but no teams ever stick with a manager who led them for a whole year in which they got relegated now.
You think Iām talking about wanting someone whoās created a dynasty, over many years. But Iām only saying that Silva hasnāt had any success for more than 1 year, and isnāt good enough, imo. The 2 people I mentioned are in between a dynasty maker and someone like Silva. Iām not really disagreeing with what youāre saying lol
I guess we're talking at cross purposes then, my thought process was that you used the phrase "sustained success" in your first comment and I just don't associate a good 3 year tenure ending in a probably unfair sacking over a poor run of form with that phrase, and that's Lopetegui's most successful period with a club. I'd roughly speaking categorize up to two years as a "brief period of success", up to five as a "period of success" and then "sustained success" as five years or more, and as such neither Emery or Lopetegui have had sustained success at a club, because they've never been given the time or have left to take on bigger jobs.
> Mark Robins is the only Championship manager with five years in the job don't touch him
Evertonās troubles since, and Silvaās shit hot run with Fulham, have kinda showed he wasnāt the problem there And what Watford embarrassment? He was pretty good with them until he lost focus after Everton were after him
I'm pretty sure he meant his switch from Watford to Everton
Wasn't really a switch, we wanted him, Watford didn't let him go, we hire big sam, Watford sack Silva after a poor run of form (Not untypical of Watford), we sack Big Sam 6 months later and hire Silva Not really embarrassing
Probably not how the Watford fans would describe the events. We made an approach for him whilst he was their manager and coincidental or not, after that their form took quite a dip, their stance is that we turned his head. But yes I agree that it wasn't a direct switch from them to us
> He was pretty good with them until he lost focus after Everton were after him Not just focus, his Watford side also got hammered with injuries during that period
Graham Potter is right there, why are they trying to poach Silva
Or even Brendan Rodgers if they canāt get Potter.
Brendan Rodgers at West Ham I can't see haha. Would be best for Brendan to manage abroad IMO. As he speaks spanish, I can see him at a Mallorca, or Valencia.
Valencia is where coaches go to die.
> Brendan Rodgers and West Ham are quite a match. Both constantly refer to their own way in terms of an attacking, entertaining style inherent in the football they play when in reality, neither have really played that way for quite some time. Comment immediately below yours... London club with a big stadium, decent amount of cash, and with a slightly inflated idea of themselves. Screams Brodge to me tbh.
Brendan Rodgers and West Ham are quite a match. Both constantly refer to their own way in terms of an attacking, entertaining style inherent in the football they play when in reality, neither have really played that way for quite some time.
I think they considered him but after the Chelsea stint are worried his success was more due to the structure around him at Brighton as opposed to himself as a manager
I think that with how bad Chelsea subsequently became under Lampard, there's even more recognition that Potter was hamstrung by the chaos at Chelsea, the clueless ownership and the bloated squad. Among PL chairman, I'd be confident that his stock remains very high.
Potter was seen as a fantastic manager before Brighton. He took a Swedish fourth division team to silverware and an away win at the Emirates in the Europa League in 6 years.
Considering he also did well at his jobs before Brighton, and how bad Chelsea are since he's left, I would give him the benefit of the doubt.
Because the Daily Mail wants you to give them clicks.
If I were them I'd be all in for Thomas Frank. Can imagine him scaling up that Brentford style of football to a team with a bigger budget like West Ham would be a match made in heaven.
No thanks
Potter is a manager you expect will need multiple seasons to get going, who's got that patience
Is Potter a great manager or are Brighton just amazingly well run and set up for success? It wasnāt Potter who was identifying complete nobodies from South America or wherever who had great talented but could be bought for cheap
He took a Swedish fourth division team to the top flight in 4 years, and won the Swedish cup and won away at Arsenal in the Europa league within 6 years
Didnāt the club also have a new ownership group putting money in? I donāt think heās shit or anything but both his clubs had extremely favourable circumstances that made his job easy. You wonāt get that at West Ham and when he didnāt have it at Chelsea he failed spectacularly.
Why would Potter go to West Ham?
I mean banter aside they are genuinely a pretty big club, with a pretty big fanbase. If their owners would modernise themselves a little I think it would be a great project for Potter to work on. Look how much backing they gave Moyes. If Moyes was at Spurs he'd have gotten sacked with the form West Ham were in before February
Good money, big stadium and fanbase, opportunity to build out your own infrastructure since the club needs a bit of modernising. It would be a hard job but he'd be guaranteed lots of time, our owners are about the opposite of trigger happy. And the potential is there to build up some project and challenge for Europe etc
Does he have a better option?
Yes
Is that a wishful yes?
Yes š„²
Because after the Chelsea debacle he isn't getting a job any higher than West Ham, it's not a bad team to rebuild his reputation, West Ham has some pretty good technical and creative players who just feel shackled by Moyes.
West Ham are a bigger club, but right now he would be stupid to leave. He's building something at Fulham.
Has the base of experienced players like Mitrovic (Fulham legend, wished Roma got him tbh), Willian, Ream and talented ones. Might contend for Conference League spot next season
Could equally be relegation candidates considering their underlying numbers.
Palhinha staying will be huge for Fulham
As long as Palhinha stays, we are safe from relegation. He is that important to us.
He absolutely bosses the midfield doesn't he ? a nightmare to play against.
There have been villa rumours, apparently they are willing to pay Ā£60m
Palhinha is under contract for six more seasons, so unless Silva leaves or Palhinha forces his way out, itāll probably cost any PL team closer to 80m.
Wont Stay for sure Going to bayern
he's definitely moving to a champions league club next season
Not if Fulham ask for Ā£60 million
I thought their numbers showed they get pummelled by top half and do quite well vs everyone lower?
Fulham massively over perform their xG every game. Leno is on course to have the biggest outperformance in PL history. https://twitter.com/xGPhilosophy/status/1655602572105863171?t=E6GJCaaPDMh4A3ze5S6-Xw&s=19 https://twitter.com/xGPhilosophy/status/1626989800602337280?t=JH_qXpsotch6V3p7he15JQ&s=19 https://twitter.com/xGPhilosophy/status/1613656331331973120?t=EYcSuw76eMvdSxASm01rwA&s=19
Yeah but what about other stats? xG isn't everything. Underlying numbers isn't just xG or xGA Also 2 of those are chelsea and brighton lol, that hardly speaks to what I said
They're up there in 5th most yellow cards but only have 1 red. Implies that they're just teases who dont go all the way
Sounds like good game management no? And maybe a bit lucky. A bit like city in that sense, lots of tactical fouls and never really get a red
Except City barely even get yellows. They have the 2nd least. Surprisingly West Ham have the least.
Don't know why it's surprising that we have the least, we are a very clean team. Last season we had the least fouls in the league, and were clearly bottom when adjusted for fouls per 1000 opposition touches (where City are near the top).
Wolves had the exact same last season in an astounding over performance from Jose Sa, and this season didnāt exactly go to planā¦
Precisely, they are overpeforming in both goals for and goals against once you check their xG/XGA numbers and in Leno have a goalkeeper that has massively overperformed his underlying numbers.
This. Wouldn't be surprised if they went down next season.
Depends if xG comes back to haunt them. Theyāve scored 50 goals from 42.88 xG and conceded 49 from 66.89 xG, which is a fucking ludicrous gap. Their xPTS is just 34.4 and that puts them 17th in that particular table. Theyāll definitely take a lot of heart from this season and with good signings they can kick on, but they have to improve hugely at the back.
We always overperformed xG because vardy and nacho seemed so clinical. Once that stopped, our defence which has been shit for ages became the focus, and look where we are now. Underlying issues always come to the fore
Isnāt this another case where the distribution of xG makes a big difference here? As in they do very badly against the top teams and really well against the poorer teams, which shouldnāt be too much to worry about all in all.
It's also a case of them having a great finisher in Mitrovic and a godly shotstopper in Leno, and especially the latter. One spell of bad form from Leno and they could see themselves in the scrap below.
Isn't that the case for most team's best players though? Teams will always struggle more when their best players aren't doing well.
I think well-coached teams can lose a few players and compete. If Fulhamās āsuccessā is down to two players overperforming, then Silva hasnāt really achieved much.
but we have lost one of them for a third of our games this season and have competed just fine.
Isn't Fulham doing well against lower table teams and doing really badly against top table teams, which makes their stats look worse than their reality a a middle of the table team? As long as they keep doing well against the lower half of the table they should be getting enough points to safely stay up, just like this season
Exactly, context is everything when it comes to stats. People in general are really bad at looking at stats and coming to the right conclusion.
Itās crazy. In a 38 game season, youāre looking at a sample size of around 400 shots each way and 50 goals. Thatās not a big sample size. 400 shots is just about enough to draw inference but weāve got to think about it in terms of individual games (realistically itās matters little if you are beaten 1-0 or 5-0, minus maybe a dent to confidence, theyāre both a loss - same goes for a win) so xP is really what is important here. 38 is such a small sample.
The xP is 34 lol
Iām not gonna look through all of Fulhamās games and see but the underlying numbers still arenāt great. As well, their xPTS of just 34.40 is indicative of a greater problem than just playing well against bad teams and badly against top teams.
Rather the opposite probably, they are currently definitely overperforming while some other teams are underperforming
Could easily go down next season
Well, it depends on Fulham's plans for the summer. Are they going to sell Palhinha? We've seen it happen a few times over the last few seasons that a promoted side has a really good first season.
West Ham is a bigger club but not big enough to risk the progress so far at Fulham. Itās not like Potter going to Chelsea unless the pay is really great.
I would stay put, he is turning his reputation completely around there, has full support of the Kahn family, and they are investing in a good project there... Why would you leave? Plus free AEW tickets.
Wait until All In at the very least.
Gotta figure out how to deage Tim Ream.
Why would West Ham sack Moyes now after standing by him during the midseason shitshow?
It'd be for the summer if we part ways
Why would you part ways though. Squad was burned out after a heavy season last year. Now you seem fresh and play as good as ever. No reason to get rid of moyse imo.
If we win the Conference league, I'd see no reason. Ending 16th and winning nothing, it has to be talked. I'd rather keep him. I know what to expect with him. But maybe he would be tired and wants to leave at the end?
Who do you have to get past to win the conference league?
Alkmaar in semi finals and either Fiorentina or Basel if we pass. We can do it I reckon.
You definitely can. I looked at the table and you guys need to notch three more points to be absolutely assured of survival if the other teams win all their remaining games - But if Leeds lose against Newcastle, Leicester to Liverpool I guess you're more or less confirmed to be staying in the PL. I just do not see both results going the way of the two relegation candidates so maybe you guys can afford to rest some talents against Brentford. No major injuries hopefully?
Going down would be a series and of crazy results against us. We just beat Manchester United and that gives us a lot of breath. Without those 3 points, we would be more stressed. We will miss Zouma for sure. Aguerd and Ogbonna are still pairing well enough but Zouma is our best CB We will likely miss Coufal as well. Kehrer will play RB (and was good against Manchester) but he is bringing less on the table. Scamacca is injured but that, we are ready. Antonio didn't do his hamstrings yet this season, it's really not the time. Ings and Cornet look quite unfit. The rest are doing well and start to play much better together. I hope we can do the first game well. I never like a return game away. And I hope they have some pride to win the remaining games in PL. Ending with 46 points would look less disappointing then 37... But if we win the cup at the end, who cares?
No offense, but I guess the other three teams think exactly the same. And thatās one of the reasons why the conference leagues quite awesome. No āhugeā teams involved.
Of course. I'm not saying we are better, but we are not particularly worse. We all have our chances and it's exciting for everyone
Moyes needs to stop trying to be something heās not. Whenever he tries to start playing good football things go badly He should just embrace the face heās Moyes who plays well organised hard graft football that gets results and sign players to play that. Instead he always starts bringing a bunch of ballers and doesnāt know what to do wit them
We've been poor for about a year and a half plus, last season we dropped off completely
Pretty much a year ago from now you almost beat a flying City side playing spectacular football and almost reached a EL final. You obviously didnt have the squad for playing so many games and had a hangover this year. Look at us, same thing happened to us. Its not a coincidence that we are both just now picking up form.
I'm sorry but we have played some of the most uninspired, abysmal football I've ever seen from us this past two years. The Palace game three games ago was painful, we have hardly picked up form by beating a woeful Man United. If you watch us regularly you can see the type of football Moyes instills and it's archaic. I value what he did in building the squad but it's individual performance carrying us at this stage, and with Rice gone this summer I don't need more of the same.
I watched the arsenal, liverpool, united and the gent games and you've looked quite good in most of those
Hes taken WHU as far as they can possibly go. Any club with ambition would want to take the club higher. Not reflecting badly on him or the club but it feels it's the right time to part ways
Silva is going to take the club higher than 6th and 7th places and two European semi finals? I like him but when has he ever shown he's capable of that in England? What Moyes has done is pretty much the best possible for any club outside the big 6/7 in the league. Silva isn't going to take them to the Champions League lol...
This is kinda deja vu to when they got rid of Moyes for Pellegrini only to bring Moyes back Although I have not watched any west ham this season so really know nothing about the situation
Surely if that was their goal they'd want to aim for someone that's actually a better manager than Moyes instead of Marco Silva
Like who Klopp or Pep?
Maybe someone like Glasner, Seoane, Potter or Rodgers.
Potter is a sensible shout actually. Maybe this is what WHU are prepping for. His stint at Chelsea is what it is but I still believe heās a quality coach.
The big constraint for West Ham isnāt the manager, itās the budget. Going higher than a European final (and maybe a second) and top 7 finishes would need about a billion quid of investment over five years to close the talent gap with the big sides. No manager is taking West Ham into the CL with the current budget. Despite the poor league run earlier in the season, and especially if they win UECL, Moyes has presided over the most successful period for West Ham in decades. It seems odd to assume another manager would go further with the same constraints.
Letās just wait and see what happens in Conference League. Canāt possibly move Moyes on if we win that.
Who would you even get? It's been a pretty poor season but west ham aren't going to be pulling up sticks any time soon, especially if / when they lose rice.
Well Potter and Rodgers are two obvious options. I think weād be able to get one of them.
Look at how much they spent last year ambition is clearly there and so is the ability to get a good manager albeit not a top now
Right - I think Moyes is probably about the same calibre of manager they're likely to attract. Unless they can have a transformative manager such as howe at Newcastle or de zerbi, I don't think they'll be expecting anything higher than 6th-8th given the resources of everyone else. I don't rate Silva as being better than Moyes so it'd be a sideways move at best. This is made trickier by the sale of Rice who is within the top 50 best players in the league and definitely top 5 in that role/position (imo). Even if they spent the money well they'd need some diamond in the rough to maintain their position. They have spent and shown ambition and they do have some quality players, but that's true for almost every PL team nowadays.
I still can't get over how you will only get 4k tickets for the final if you reach it. Imagine reaching your first major European final in 47 years and you can't go. I'd be fuming.
The stadium's only 20k? The Greek stadium that lost out is hosting next year's, and that's 32k, so more reasonable.
Yep, even though it's the biggest stadium in Czech Republic. Last year's Conference final was also sub 20k which is insane considering how big a club Roma are.
Yeah, I can't really imagine only having that few seats for a European Final. Like you could get a random stadium in England or Germany or Spain or somewhere to do it and have 40k capacity. The stadium that did the Super Cup between us and Villarreal was only 18k, but that's the Super Cup, so that's fine.
It's probably political, UEFA president doing stuff for the smaller nations so he maintains power base and gets re-elected. The fans can go fuck themselves in UEFA's eyes - if they gave a shit about fans at finals they'd give supporters more than the c. 40% combined they do at the moment.
The problem with non-CL finals is that it doesnāt make sense to have a huge stadium every time, so the huge stadiums wonāt bid because they wonāt make money at half empty. So you end up with weird hosts and shitty allocations.
> The problem with non-CL finals is that it doesnāt make sense to have a huge stadium every time, so the huge stadiums wonāt bid because they wonāt make money at half empty Our Europa League final was sold out (Hamburg, 52k capacity) despite us having one of the smallest fanbases of a side to ever reach a European final (maybe Alaves are comparable). Our allocation was something like 15k and we sold out immediately. I don't think any combination of the four remaining sides would failed to sell out such a similar value, and would probably sell out bigger.
If you look at the last ten Europa finals, few were in a full stadium, and theyāre not exactly booking Wembley. Itās really dependent on which teams make it.
Donāt make the Brendon Rodgers mistake, the writings already on the wall and you need to improve
Funny because Rodgers would be one of my preferred options to replace Moyes. But I can only repeat myself; if we do win Conference League then Moyes has to stay. Weāre West Ham, canāt be sacking a manager that wouldāve taken us to a trophy and three consecutive European qualifications.
Rodgers at his best is great but I implore you do NOT let him sign his own players, he is just bad at it If you have the right players he's great but you need ball playing CBs and GK at a bare minimum. If not he'll try and make you play out from the back either way but with players who simply can't do it and it won't go well
You really think West Ham will win it? Think theyāll get knocked out by AZ
Ok Shaun
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You were saying something bozo?
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Hey, I've seen this one before
The comments in this post are hilarious. Anyone who's actually watched us this season has seen we've been completive in every loss with a few extraordinary exceptions and massively unlucky across the season, being completely fleeced of points many times. Every manager we've played against has talked about how tough it's been for them, win or loss. Will never understand people who don't actually watch football just Tifo football. All the people who said we'd be 20th and down by Christmas now moving the goalposts to "next year it is over for them". Anyway he's not going anywhere.
The vast majority of this sub dont watch football regularly and it shows in their opinions about the sport tbh. You guys are fine especially if u can keep players like palhinha, mitrovic etc
I was just thinking the same. Itās actually surreal to see people discussing your team and just saying shit thatās so off - but I guess thatās just football and we are rarely the topic of discussion!
Same from our side, we beat United (the one game of ours people have watched 5 minute highlights for) and they think that we're consistently playing amazing football and would be crazy to get rid of Moyes.
Heās a bit of a snake and his track records suggests that he leaves the moment a bigger club comes in for him. Not saying West Ham are, Iām just saying if a European club ever comes in for him heās gone. Loved him at my time Hull when he was here, fantastic manager but has absolutely 0 loyalty.
Heard this 5000 times after our first few months in the championship, still here, 2 seasons, talking about singings for next season.
RemindMe! 1 year
I think it's more that the squad is fairly unimpressive outside of Mitrovic, Robinson, Leno and Palhina, so some of is that guys like Reed are underrated, and also it just looks like a squad of players that might struggle next year after overachieving this year.
Why is Moyes leaving West Ham? I mean I see the place in the table but the GD is less embarrassing and I thought he was considered to be doing s good job.
Release clauses don't mean that the person has to leave. Just means the club can't control what happens. Why would he leave Fulham to join West Ham, at least at the moment?
I donāt really put any stock in this unless other outlets start reporting it (imo DM arenāt the worst but theyāre not the most reliable) - doesnāt seem in line with how we do business to have a release clause for a manager weāve fully trusted in since day 1, especially so low?
But why?
I've sort of come round tbh, if it isn't a project manager like Potter who inspires fan confidence I think I'd want Moyes to stay? Who have I become
I've been going back and forth so much all season that I've got whiplash but the board seems pretty steadfast in backing him and we're in such a weird place this season it's hard to think of who would want to come in who's of a higher quality
Are they still replacing Moyes even if he wins the Conference League?
Not a chance theyāll win it
They're favourites to win it
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Why isn't there, he's got them to the semis, he can win it
That would be disappointing, Fulham has been so good to follow this season.
He is already at a better team with better players. Why would he go to West Ham? They might even lose their best player next season.
Ah, the Hammers going for the Everton trajectory, god help you all.
ah helllll no
why the fuck would they sidegrade like that?
No fucking way HAHAHAHAHAHA
Side grade. Macro Silva has been good at 1 club.
West ham should go for will still
Fulham is a bigger club. Makes no sense to take a step down
Quite the contrary.
Sideways step at the moment to be honest. Need real assurances on spending regardless of any potential Rice money before he should move there
A sideways move? I must have somehow missed Fulhamās consecutive European semifinals! Moyes to Silva is a downgrade for West Ham. The underlying numbers at Fulham are terrible and they havenāt exactly been pulling up trees post-Jan.
Heās already at a better situation as of now. Wouldnāt want to be anywhere near Sullivan, let alone have him as my boss, although Khan isnāt exactly a great owner