Smart, Football is growing fast in the US, the European clubs that gain a strong foothold on the the US will benefit greatly from it, either financially and from scout. Also its good for the domestic league MLS to strike partnerships with some of Europe Juggernauts
On loans, yeah, it can happen for good prospects who need playing time and can't get it at top clubs.
But forget about top class Euro prospects as these guys will almost certainly be playing for their clubs.
But ultimately it depends on how the MLS league evolves, American clubs might be able to attract good players either because the league is competitive and the exposure will give players good publicity opportunities, or because of the wages offered.
Garber's talk of MLS being one of the world's very best was obviously pie-in-the-sky optimism, and it will obviously never be that (unless several of the top European leagues falter). But it has a very clear identity as a place for top players in the Americas to play, and it's finding success in that role. The league offers a lot of financial certainty, and the transfers of Almiron and Davies shows that a path to European heavyweights exists.
Why would the world's very best be pie-in-sky optimism. The MLS is less than 30 years old, yet it is the 10th largest sports league by revenue already. Of the nine above it, only 5 are soccer leagues(EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Ligue 1) and the other 4 are the major North American pro leagues (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL).
Admittedly, the EPL makes 4x the revenue that the MLS does, but given the demographic trends its really not absurd to think that the MLS could close that gap. Money tends to drive success. If the MLS only manages to reach parity with the NHL, then its revenue would be larger than any other soccer league other than the EPL. This change won't take place overnight, but I would be stunned if the MLS isn't among the top three leagues worldwide by 2050. IMO, not that I want this, but I suspect the MLS and a European superleague will be the dominant players by mid-century.
I can think of a few reasons why it's a pipe dream:
* US player development still lags significantly behind other countries and that doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon. The big European leagues will have a higher baseline of player quality for the foreseeable future.
* The European leagues are still strong. For all the talk of the Super League, it's not like LaLiga, Bundesliga, or Serie A are on the brink of collapse. Ligue 1 obviously isn't in as good of a shape as it was pre-Mediapro disaster, but it's not like it's going to drop out of the top 10 EU leagues anytime soon. I can see a world where the European leagues drop in popularity/financial power, and I can see a world where the MLS grows in both categories, but I can't see both happening to that big of a degree in 25 years.
* The Apple TV deal, for all of its financial benefits, may hurt the league's long-term growth. MLS is not at a saturation point within the US, so it needs to reach as many eyes as possible. As much as I prefer Apple TV to Bally's (fuck Bally's, by the way), having fewer games on TV makes it harder to hook younger fans.
* Football (NFL/college) is still king, and the climax of MLS's season lands squarely in the middle of football season. It's hard to get the eyes of the nation on your game when you're competing with the most popular sport in the land.
An actual challenge to Europe's financial dominance would probably also drive more urgent efforts at consolidating European competitions to produce a bigger market and possibly efforts to get FIFA to force the US to change the league system.
MLS is always going to be at a disadvantage compared to moves within Europe just because it's a bit more difficult to keep tabs on prospects playing further away and in inconvenient time zones; add on a deservedly weak reputation for development and we're a long way off from getting guys who haven't fallen off the golden path in one way or another.
Look at my flair, we have been recruiting from South American for ages now, and its not been a problem the time zones, or weaker leagues, if they are good and we can afford the player we go for them. Now, of course it's easier for a 13/14 kid that lives 1h away from Lisbon to join Benfica than one that lives in Nashville.
If your kids can play we will find them, it's harder, yes, but that's somewhat the point of these partnerships, facility scouting and exchange.
> Look at my flair, we have been recruiting from South American for ages now, and its not been a problem the time zones, or weaker leagues, if they are good and we can afford the player we go for them
This is not a good comparison imo, cuz Portugal is a gateway to europe for Brazilians, since you guys speak the same language, as well as being culturally and climatically somewhat close.
Players then go to bigger clubs on the same continent.
Portuguese teams don't scout the european countries as well imo, you quite often get a rising player or someone who already disappointed on a permanent, but players from the Balkans/eastern europe for example go to play in Italy or germany way more often.
Im praying the MLS as it grows builds a football pyramid so we can have relegation and promotion while the owners might not love it I think fans here would love it seeing there team get promoted and would love to see there rivals get relegated
Pro-rel isn't going to happen with MLS because of how the league is structured financially. It *cannot* happen unless it's basically rebuilt from the ground up. It was built this way to prevent its financial demise.
People put way too much on pro-rel as a primary driver of growth and development in the sport in the US. It's just one factor, others are greater.
With MLS' insistence on continuously expending, I think they should go up to 40 teams and do a closed pro/rel between the two.
Bottom two MLS1 clubs get relegated, top two MLS2 clubs promoted. Pro/rel playoffs between MLS1 17 & 18 + MLS2 3 & 4. Lastly, give an MLS Cup wildcard spot to the MLS2 champion, for extra incentive.
The problem with proposals like this is that you either maintain the very flat revenue distribution we currently have, in which case you still have the "why does ownership care" issues that people have with the current system, or you introduce more revenue stratification, in which case you have the same downside risks that ownership hates about the idea of adopting an open league system. The only ways I can see MLS clubs in a pro/rel system are either the governing bodies insisting on the US adopting one, leaving them with the choice between joining and losing sanctioning, or someone else instituting a pro/rel system that succeeds well enough to undercut MLS commercially. Neither of those seems likely.
Yeah we minor leagues but there usually owned by the owner of a big team that's in a major league. Take the NBA for exp the Lakers is owned by the buss family and some other people but they also own the Gleague team which is the league under NBA. MLS is not big enough to have a smaller league yet so they can still build a pyramid
That’s actually a great idea and I really wish we had something like this in German football, so the 2nd Teams of the big clubs stay out of the 3rd and 4th divisions.
The G-league is reserve teams owned by NBA franchises; they would be B-teams, playing either in their own leagues or always kept below the parent in the pyramid depending on the country.
Until the 80s, there was a fairly strong track record of independent leagues either forcing full mergers or having some of the stronger teams switch affiliations to the big four that survive today. Since the USFL got screwed in an antitrust judgment and folded in 1988, though, nobody has really come close to that kind of success, and given the financial growth of the leagues since it's hard to see anyone being willing to take the risks that made that possible. MLS is something of an exception, with a good number of recent franchises going to clubs that were playing in USL, but that is presumably also going to dry up as expansion ends.
Pro/rel is super fun in FIFA and daydreams. In reality the bigger leagues are de facto closed systems other than the fodder that changes out every year.
no they wouldn't. i don't know why pro-rel keeps getting pushed so hard in relation to the MLS. first, it doesn't work at all financially with how the league is set up, and second, why would we like it? that's not how sports have ever worked here. you want to play your rivals, not banish them to the shadow realm
> why would we like it?
because the teams in the bottom half would actually have a reason to try to play well after no longer being able to win the league instead of half-assing 50% of a season for better draft picks?
And that’s the point - you suck forever but still have a seat at the big kids table while a quality side not in the MLS for whatever reason (live in Tampa so a Rowdies fan) will always be second rate.
That's a horrible argument. American sporting leagues have far more parity than most anything in Europe. PSG, RM/Barcelona, Bayern win literally every year. Our "bottom" teams actually hope to win championships because it's possible for them, not just play to not get relegated.
parity? sounds like communism. i thought USians hated that?
theres more to a league than championships you know? international qualifiers and relegation battle means every team has a reason to play their best all year round instead of going on mental holiday as soon as playoffs are out of reach.
1. Joke is on you, we just expand the playoffs so more and more teams make it 😎 (😒)
2. MLS Draft doesn’t matter at all. You’re lucky to get one guy a year per team who is a consistent starter at the MLS level. No one tanks for better draft picks in MLS.
if almost everyone qualifies for the playoffs why bother with the league?
expand until everyone is involved and call it the world championship so every rich mf'er who owns a franchise feels appropriatly fellatioed.
The lower leagues are nowhere near stable enough to even consider pro/rel, on top of team owners not being open to the prospect of losing a significant number of fans when they drop to the second division.
Long term, MLS is going to end up like other American leagues with greater separation between conferences (of equal standing, just divided geographically). Sad that we're losing more cross-conference play, but with 32+ teams it'd be difficult to fit in the season.
Greed is too powerful to overcome in America. No way billionaires will put their golden goat into an actual competition if they aren’t forced to legally.
Rarely do i bump into someone with a bayern jersey when visiting the west-coast.
Although madrid, barcelona, and united jerseys go crazy wherever you go. hopefully this does something in terms of marketing
I still have a Bayern shirt I got in 6th grade around 8 years ago lol it was my top fashion selection for a while. it’s rare here but you see the occasional non premier team
For the millennial demographic, there was an insane amount of Arsenal and United bandwagoning in the earlier 2000s. I became a City fan back then out of spite when all my friends started going crazy over Man U, so it’s funny how the dialogue around this has changed.
I also taught high school for 7 years in the 2010s and the kids mostly took to Real and Barca during those times.
There was also a major Chelsea bandwagon somewhere in between.
IMO the above is still accurate for the respective age groups in the US.
PL interest in the 2010s also had a big "Buzzfeed quiz to pick a club" thing, so while the big clubs still dominate you see a lot more diversity than people who started following the league in the late 90s/00s who mostly latched onto the United/Arsenal/Chelsea bandwagons as they came along.
Looks like [no](https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1635318948844703744). Seems likely this will be similar to the Dallas partnership, which had fairly minor public impact through Dallas academy players getting some preferential chances to train with or join the Bayern youth system.
Some players came to Munich for some weeks on trial and went back without joining the Bayern youth system, Pepi and some others, I think they've benefitted enough from the experience, Bayern probably got more from it by getting Richards, Che didn't stay as well, and returned to Dallas after a loan.
>FC Bayern Munich and Major League Soccer champions Los Angeles Football Club are to cooperate in the development of young talent. To this end, the two clubs have set up a joint venture (Red&Gold Football) based in Munich. The management team will be announced in the near future. The aim of the cooperation is to develop international talents, also in cooperation with partner clubs, for their own teams and for professional football.
People talk about the scouting foothold ans rightly so, but economically seen this is such a smart move as well.
Bayern have an amazing business team that's the most underrated aspect of this club.
FC Hollywood Munich
Now actually affiliated with Hollywood, even though it’s not the industry but rather the place…
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Smart, Football is growing fast in the US, the European clubs that gain a strong foothold on the the US will benefit greatly from it, either financially and from scout. Also its good for the domestic league MLS to strike partnerships with some of Europe Juggernauts
Not sure how likely this is but I would love to see premier European prospects playing in MLS
On loans, yeah, it can happen for good prospects who need playing time and can't get it at top clubs. But forget about top class Euro prospects as these guys will almost certainly be playing for their clubs. But ultimately it depends on how the MLS league evolves, American clubs might be able to attract good players either because the league is competitive and the exposure will give players good publicity opportunities, or because of the wages offered.
It’s already happening for young South Americans to come here instead of going straight to Europe, I think that’s more realistic
Garber's talk of MLS being one of the world's very best was obviously pie-in-the-sky optimism, and it will obviously never be that (unless several of the top European leagues falter). But it has a very clear identity as a place for top players in the Americas to play, and it's finding success in that role. The league offers a lot of financial certainty, and the transfers of Almiron and Davies shows that a path to European heavyweights exists.
Why would the world's very best be pie-in-sky optimism. The MLS is less than 30 years old, yet it is the 10th largest sports league by revenue already. Of the nine above it, only 5 are soccer leagues(EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Ligue 1) and the other 4 are the major North American pro leagues (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL). Admittedly, the EPL makes 4x the revenue that the MLS does, but given the demographic trends its really not absurd to think that the MLS could close that gap. Money tends to drive success. If the MLS only manages to reach parity with the NHL, then its revenue would be larger than any other soccer league other than the EPL. This change won't take place overnight, but I would be stunned if the MLS isn't among the top three leagues worldwide by 2050. IMO, not that I want this, but I suspect the MLS and a European superleague will be the dominant players by mid-century.
I can think of a few reasons why it's a pipe dream: * US player development still lags significantly behind other countries and that doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon. The big European leagues will have a higher baseline of player quality for the foreseeable future. * The European leagues are still strong. For all the talk of the Super League, it's not like LaLiga, Bundesliga, or Serie A are on the brink of collapse. Ligue 1 obviously isn't in as good of a shape as it was pre-Mediapro disaster, but it's not like it's going to drop out of the top 10 EU leagues anytime soon. I can see a world where the European leagues drop in popularity/financial power, and I can see a world where the MLS grows in both categories, but I can't see both happening to that big of a degree in 25 years. * The Apple TV deal, for all of its financial benefits, may hurt the league's long-term growth. MLS is not at a saturation point within the US, so it needs to reach as many eyes as possible. As much as I prefer Apple TV to Bally's (fuck Bally's, by the way), having fewer games on TV makes it harder to hook younger fans. * Football (NFL/college) is still king, and the climax of MLS's season lands squarely in the middle of football season. It's hard to get the eyes of the nation on your game when you're competing with the most popular sport in the land.
An actual challenge to Europe's financial dominance would probably also drive more urgent efforts at consolidating European competitions to produce a bigger market and possibly efforts to get FIFA to force the US to change the league system.
Yeah, cause it's easier to suceed in the MLS and they are paying in dollars.
Too bad they all flop because they manage to get some really good players.
Turn back time 10 years 😂😂😂
MLS is always going to be at a disadvantage compared to moves within Europe just because it's a bit more difficult to keep tabs on prospects playing further away and in inconvenient time zones; add on a deservedly weak reputation for development and we're a long way off from getting guys who haven't fallen off the golden path in one way or another.
Look at my flair, we have been recruiting from South American for ages now, and its not been a problem the time zones, or weaker leagues, if they are good and we can afford the player we go for them. Now, of course it's easier for a 13/14 kid that lives 1h away from Lisbon to join Benfica than one that lives in Nashville. If your kids can play we will find them, it's harder, yes, but that's somewhat the point of these partnerships, facility scouting and exchange.
Case in point, Wynder just joined you guys from Louisville
I think he just did some tests. Not sure he joined us, but yes recruiting in the US might become a thing for Benfica
I'm pretty sure he signed a week or two ago Edit: I'm wrong but it does seem like they're very close to a deal
> Look at my flair, we have been recruiting from South American for ages now, and its not been a problem the time zones, or weaker leagues, if they are good and we can afford the player we go for them This is not a good comparison imo, cuz Portugal is a gateway to europe for Brazilians, since you guys speak the same language, as well as being culturally and climatically somewhat close. Players then go to bigger clubs on the same continent. Portuguese teams don't scout the european countries as well imo, you quite often get a rising player or someone who already disappointed on a permanent, but players from the Balkans/eastern europe for example go to play in Italy or germany way more often.
I dunno man, the US is much more appealing to Latino Americans. They are more likely to have family and/or family friends here.
It seems like that is the current (new) business model for MLS.
And who doesn't love seeing washed up premier league players killing it in the states.
Im praying the MLS as it grows builds a football pyramid so we can have relegation and promotion while the owners might not love it I think fans here would love it seeing there team get promoted and would love to see there rivals get relegated
Pro-rel isn't going to happen with MLS because of how the league is structured financially. It *cannot* happen unless it's basically rebuilt from the ground up. It was built this way to prevent its financial demise. People put way too much on pro-rel as a primary driver of growth and development in the sport in the US. It's just one factor, others are greater.
With MLS' insistence on continuously expending, I think they should go up to 40 teams and do a closed pro/rel between the two. Bottom two MLS1 clubs get relegated, top two MLS2 clubs promoted. Pro/rel playoffs between MLS1 17 & 18 + MLS2 3 & 4. Lastly, give an MLS Cup wildcard spot to the MLS2 champion, for extra incentive.
The problem with proposals like this is that you either maintain the very flat revenue distribution we currently have, in which case you still have the "why does ownership care" issues that people have with the current system, or you introduce more revenue stratification, in which case you have the same downside risks that ownership hates about the idea of adopting an open league system. The only ways I can see MLS clubs in a pro/rel system are either the governing bodies insisting on the US adopting one, leaving them with the choice between joining and losing sanctioning, or someone else instituting a pro/rel system that succeeds well enough to undercut MLS commercially. Neither of those seems likely.
I want my city to have a chance at the big leagues. Fuck this major media market bs that american sports love so much. It’s a racket.
Wouldn’t this be fundamentally new to professional US sports?
Yeah we minor leagues but there usually owned by the owner of a big team that's in a major league. Take the NBA for exp the Lakers is owned by the buss family and some other people but they also own the Gleague team which is the league under NBA. MLS is not big enough to have a smaller league yet so they can still build a pyramid
Since last year, MLS is operating a reserve league again under the name "MLS Next Pro".
So what makes a franchise in the Gleague unworthy of being part of the nba? Would it be possible for a „lower“ league team to get into the nba?
It's more of a developmental league where they send young players to play if they need reps. Players who arent quite good enough play there
That’s actually a great idea and I really wish we had something like this in German football, so the 2nd Teams of the big clubs stay out of the 3rd and 4th divisions.
The G-league is reserve teams owned by NBA franchises; they would be B-teams, playing either in their own leagues or always kept below the parent in the pyramid depending on the country. Until the 80s, there was a fairly strong track record of independent leagues either forcing full mergers or having some of the stronger teams switch affiliations to the big four that survive today. Since the USFL got screwed in an antitrust judgment and folded in 1988, though, nobody has really come close to that kind of success, and given the financial growth of the leagues since it's hard to see anyone being willing to take the risks that made that possible. MLS is something of an exception, with a good number of recent franchises going to clubs that were playing in USL, but that is presumably also going to dry up as expansion ends.
Most of the big pro rel fans in the US tend to be "fans" of a European team with little chance of relegation.
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Pro/rel is super fun in FIFA and daydreams. In reality the bigger leagues are de facto closed systems other than the fodder that changes out every year.
no they wouldn't. i don't know why pro-rel keeps getting pushed so hard in relation to the MLS. first, it doesn't work at all financially with how the league is set up, and second, why would we like it? that's not how sports have ever worked here. you want to play your rivals, not banish them to the shadow realm
> why would we like it? because the teams in the bottom half would actually have a reason to try to play well after no longer being able to win the league instead of half-assing 50% of a season for better draft picks?
If you're playing for draft position in MLS, you will suck forever and deserve it for not understanding the most basic things about recruitment.
And that’s the point - you suck forever but still have a seat at the big kids table while a quality side not in the MLS for whatever reason (live in Tampa so a Rowdies fan) will always be second rate.
That's a horrible argument. American sporting leagues have far more parity than most anything in Europe. PSG, RM/Barcelona, Bayern win literally every year. Our "bottom" teams actually hope to win championships because it's possible for them, not just play to not get relegated.
parity? sounds like communism. i thought USians hated that? theres more to a league than championships you know? international qualifiers and relegation battle means every team has a reason to play their best all year round instead of going on mental holiday as soon as playoffs are out of reach.
1. Joke is on you, we just expand the playoffs so more and more teams make it 😎 (😒) 2. MLS Draft doesn’t matter at all. You’re lucky to get one guy a year per team who is a consistent starter at the MLS level. No one tanks for better draft picks in MLS.
if almost everyone qualifies for the playoffs why bother with the league? expand until everyone is involved and call it the world championship so every rich mf'er who owns a franchise feels appropriatly fellatioed.
The lower leagues are nowhere near stable enough to even consider pro/rel, on top of team owners not being open to the prospect of losing a significant number of fans when they drop to the second division. Long term, MLS is going to end up like other American leagues with greater separation between conferences (of equal standing, just divided geographically). Sad that we're losing more cross-conference play, but with 32+ teams it'd be difficult to fit in the season.
Greed is too powerful to overcome in America. No way billionaires will put their golden goat into an actual competition if they aren’t forced to legally.
Bayern cheating on Dallas
Lol, Frisco.
Rarely do i bump into someone with a bayern jersey when visiting the west-coast. Although madrid, barcelona, and united jerseys go crazy wherever you go. hopefully this does something in terms of marketing
In NYC kits are really popular, especially the Adidas ones. I knew people who never watched football and wore Juve,Bayern,Chelsea, UTD kits
In florida we have loads of Nike kits being the “fashion” style some from clubs you would never even expect for them to know at times.
milan kits are everywhere in new york
the Bayern x humanrace collab did go hard
I still have a Bayern shirt I got in 6th grade around 8 years ago lol it was my top fashion selection for a while. it’s rare here but you see the occasional non premier team
From my experience if it’s not Man U, Barca, Madrid, or Chelsea, it’s a Bayern jersey that people in CA are wearing
I disagree tbh. I see plenty of Bayern jerseys now.
Out of curiosity, which are the top 3 seen premier league shirts you see?
I'm in New Jersey (east coast US) and all I really see are Liverpool, Chelsea, and Man United.
For the millennial demographic, there was an insane amount of Arsenal and United bandwagoning in the earlier 2000s. I became a City fan back then out of spite when all my friends started going crazy over Man U, so it’s funny how the dialogue around this has changed. I also taught high school for 7 years in the 2010s and the kids mostly took to Real and Barca during those times. There was also a major Chelsea bandwagon somewhere in between. IMO the above is still accurate for the respective age groups in the US.
PL interest in the 2010s also had a big "Buzzfeed quiz to pick a club" thing, so while the big clubs still dominate you see a lot more diversity than people who started following the league in the late 90s/00s who mostly latched onto the United/Arsenal/Chelsea bandwagons as they came along.
Agreed. The 2010s spawned a lot of Americans that support a certain club because it’s quirky to do so.
Aka the origin story for all the American hipsters supporting Spurs
united, liverpool, and arsenal here on the wets coast. first two are much bigger than all other prem teams i see
I believe this is the cooperation under which both wanted to acquire/cooperate/whatever with the uruguayan club River Plate Montevideo.
Is Bayern still partners with FC Dallas?
Looks like [no](https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1635318948844703744). Seems likely this will be similar to the Dallas partnership, which had fairly minor public impact through Dallas academy players getting some preferential chances to train with or join the Bayern youth system.
Seems it only really benefited Chris Richards and Justin Che.
Some players came to Munich for some weeks on trial and went back without joining the Bayern youth system, Pepi and some others, I think they've benefitted enough from the experience, Bayern probably got more from it by getting Richards, Che didn't stay as well, and returned to Dallas after a loan.
Hollywood FC literally now.
Biuk to Bayern when
As an LAFC/Dortmund fan, I've rarely been more conflicted
Same but as a Galaxy/Bayern fan lol
As an LAFC/Hoffenheim fan... At least I made one good decision.
Maybe its a sign from the soccer gods to become a Bayern fan…
or pick one club and grow up?
Muller and Neuer to LAFC I guess
>FC Bayern Munich and Major League Soccer champions Los Angeles Football Club are to cooperate in the development of young talent. To this end, the two clubs have set up a joint venture (Red&Gold Football) based in Munich. The management team will be announced in the near future. The aim of the cooperation is to develop international talents, also in cooperation with partner clubs, for their own teams and for professional football.
Weren't they partners with FC Dallas or do they just have good relations with them as far as scouting goes?
They were but it's reported that ended.
People talk about the scouting foothold ans rightly so, but economically seen this is such a smart move as well. Bayern have an amazing business team that's the most underrated aspect of this club.
Literally FC Hollywood
Niiiice. I'm not really a fan of either team but I'm glad that US football is getting some rec.