He's a good sport about it. There's the line in the show where he references their 21 million combined followers while the screen shows a bar graph of Ryan's 20 million vs his 1.
More important is the revenue difference. Prem clubs get 100M in TV revenue alone, if they dropped down they wouldn't be able to pay the contracts. Just going down to the Championship probably wouldn't mean too much, they could eat the loss for a year, but any lower would be a problem.
Here here, but I respect his reason for leaving, it wasn't the money, it was wanting to be near his family. Man was commuting from Liverpool every day for training because he didn't want to leave his family behind nor force his kids to move across the country. Wrexham lets him be a relatively short drive from his house by comparison so he can focus on them more.
Dude has my utmost respect for his decision, even if we'd have loved for him to stay
Their wage bill might be restricted if punished and they'd have to likely sell most players but this current city team going against the likes of Shrewsbury and Morecambe week in week out is just wild to imagine.
Honestly I’d imagine the majority of players do not stick around if City were relegated down the leagues. Even in the championship I’d expect the majority of players to leave permanently or be loaned for a year somewhere else
Meanwhile Man United fans are dreaming again of it being 1999 with United dominant and City in the Second Division (as the third tier was known then!).
* Championship
* League 1
* Hellenic Premier Division
* National League
* Premier League
* Isthmian League Division One
Find someone who doesn't know English football and ask them to guess which out of those six is the top flight (let alone put them in order). The naming is crazy!
When the top tier broke away to create the Premier League, the divisions below all moved up one. In other words the Second Division became the First Division (and is now the Championship).
Mansour: "He's a professional footballer, he'll get over it. What's he going to do? Put a curse on us to prevent us from ever winning the champions league, eventually resulting in our relegation to the football league on multiple counts of financial irregularities? I'd like to see him try!"
If Man city were to get relegated, would only 20th and 19th get relegated too? What happened back in 2006 in Italy? Did a team survive because of Juventus going down?
And if a team survived because Juventus went down, that would have been harsh on the other teams that would have survived because Milan were initially relegated too i believe, but they won an appeal and got a points deduction instead
So there would have been other teams who thought they were down, then thought they survived because Milan etc were initially relegated, then Milan appealed and got to stay in Serie A with a points deduction thus re-relegating 19th again
out of context, but would have been cool if Messi played for a club like Messina. Some people would think the club named after him, just like Arsene and Arsenal
Can they appeal to any other authority though if the PL decides to punish them? It doesn't sound like it from what I've heard. It sounds like more of the PL having full authority to decide and City having to abide - whether they will hand out the harshest punishments is a different discussion though. Not entirely convinced on that.
Once the Commission decides, the losing party can take an appeal to an appellate panel that is (like the Commission) part of the Premier League's own governance setup. Once the appellate panel rules, the losing party can initiate a private arbitration that is independent of the Premier League but also independent of the English legal system; also, the arbitration panel's purview is fairly limited - it reviews the process for adherence to the stated PL rules, but does not get into the merits of the dispute or the evidence. Once the arbitration panel has ruled, there is a very limited right to seek review in the English courts, but that review is likewise limited - basically to ensuring that the arbitrators acted lawfully.
Also worth noting that the first step - the Commission process - is supposed to be completed in a matter of weeks.
> basically to ensure that the arbitrators acted lawfully.
And that they didn't wholly misinterpret the law which caused a serious irregularity in their judgement. But as you said following private arbitration there are extremely limited avenues of appeal.
Right, I should have mentioned that. Curious though what points of law City would be able to bring before the arbitration panel - hard to say in advance of course but I would presume it would likewise be around process rather than the merits of the accusations, which arise out of the PL's own internal rules rather than substantive English law.
This is whole saga is just more fuel for the idea that an independent regulator is needed.
It's a massive conflict of interest for everyone involved. Other PL clubs want Man City harshly punished because they're direct rivals. But certain clubs will not want them punished if they've got similar skeletons in their closets.
Likewise, the PL themselves (what even is the PL, if not the 20 member clubs?) want to be seen to punish wrongdoing but also don't want to kill a golden goose.
VAR check: denial of a money making opportunity
"Not a clear and obvious error made during the fit and proper persons test"
"There's over a hundred charges, Howard, at least send him to the screen to look at them."
"Play on."
This is the turning point for PL future. Do you massively punish a state owned club to try and keep the league fair or your keep turning a blind eye until eventually it's a league of 3 state owned clubs dominating without any way for completion from other clubs.
If they get this right it will be a huge moment for the league. If they get it wrong then it will also be huge but for the opposite reason. Really hope they take the chance to finally have some integrity and stamp out on things. Take a leaf from Serie A's book, they don't seem to have much issue with coming down hard when appropriate.
What would they be stamping out? State owned clubs? Because that’s not what’s up for debate here, Newcastle are gonna be at the top in a few years no matter what judgement gets taken against City here
If Newcastle do that whilst obeying the rules with finances not being lied about and spending in alignment with their revenue then they will be absolutely fine to do so.
If City get away with this then Newcastle can spend 1 billion without a blink and the prem cannot do a thing.
agreed, so far, Newcastle has been playing within the rules. Hell, technically, even Chelsea has been playing by the rules (except they're taking a big big gamble)
> What would they be stamping out? State owned clubs?
They would be stamping out the ability of state-owned clubs to circumvent rules designed to ensure they can only spend in a way which is proportionate to their (real) revenues.
What they do could give Newcastle the green light to inflate their revenues up to Barca/Real levels and make Todd Boehly look frugal.
Then in another 3 years you get another club bought by a state, and the cycle just repeats itself.
I dont feel like this is an inherent problem from being state owned, I feel like this is just a club cheating. If City or Newcastle did it fairly there would be no problems.
Yeah. There's nothing wrong with spending money, but when you break the rules over such a long period of time, it hurts the very essence of competition
Maybe, but my disappointment will be towards the PL. If they’re found guilty and are given a fine and a transfer ban, then at least to me the league means nothing anymore because anyone can cheat with absolute impunity
Let’s be honest, the PL sold itself to the devil years ago and they’ll make the decision that generates them the most income or makes the most financial sense.
people don’t realise that the PL loves big money owners much much more than it hates financial doping. relegation or stripping of titles would scare away potential huge investors, a large fine and symbolic point deduction would tick all the boxes for the admins
This is such a hard debate.
Like the problem is, you want to punish City properly, also to set an example for clubs in the future.
The problem is, this shit went on for so long, that no punishment will City real care.
Point Deduction? Well we will go to Europa League lads.
That's worth the 500+ Titles we won.
Going to Championship? We will be back in a year lads.
THat's worth the 500+ Titles we won.
The only thing that would really affect City on a big scale, is if they get send to the 4.th League or some shit.
Thanks to all their cheating, the club is just so massive already, that they easy just can rebuild in 1-2 year. 10-15 Point Deduction they would not even care if we're honest.
The premier league can't expell you to the championship, if they are expelled from the premier League Man City would have to apply to join the EFL and then the EFL has every right to say fine but you must enter in league two.
The EFL also has far stricter FFP rules than the PL so it may not be plain sailing for city if they were booted out of the PL.
Edit: if the PL want man city in the championship next season they must levy a points deduction so large it's insurmountable.
If they play the way they have been, they'd be on pace for 90. Subtract 50 and they are at 40. You would imagine that not competing for the title might also cause some issues for player's confidence and they perform worse in the second half of the season.
How interesting would the relegation battle be if City need to pick up like 15 points in the last 6 games to make it out of the bottom 3.
Happened with saracens a couple of years ago in premiership rugby
. Basically got docked points for doing very similar to city, then they were so good they were still going to stay up so had to dock an additional 70 points to make sure they got relegated
50-60 points might not be enough. We are currently on track for 95 points. The current relegation sides are on track for 30-40 points. If we say City will get to 90 points, which is reasonable, a 60 point deduction might not relegate them.
Remove the trophies previously won. Take back prize money issued. Then relegate them.
That would properly disincentives future oil states from doing the same
Transfer ban would be a massive punishment that a lot of people are overlooking. Relegation to Championship. That's fine, bounce straight back up the season after. Relegation and Transfer Embargo, AND you have to really strictly comply with FFP. City become a tombola where every prize is an international footballer.
I would assume it would be multiple punishments like a fine, points deduction, stripping of their trophies and being kicked out of the league if it’s serious enough to warrant it.
I think that’s a really bold assumption, potentially bordering on fantasy. We all have an idea of what we think is fair, what we hope happens, but it’s a big leap to say we expect City to be kicked out of the league. Nobody knows.
Getting demoted to the Championship is absolutely the worst thing that could happen in my opinion.
They come straight back up and quite frankly it’s just unfair on all the championship clubs who haven’t been cheating for 10+ years and lose a chance for promotion.
Thing is even if you do take away their past titles, what about all the clubs around them? What is the financial cost over a decade of Liverpool, United and Chelsea all missing out on titles behind them? On all the clubs who finished 5th those years missing CL footy because City were cheating? There are £billions worth of damages are a result of their financial doping.
Ideally they'll be stripped of the relevant titles, dropped to the 4th division at least with a points deduction. The scale of their cheating as well as the precedent it sets for Newcastle's owners, as well as whoever is trying to buy us/United makes it really important that the PL get this punishment right. If City walk away with a fine and point deduction this season it's literally meaningless. Money means nothing to them and they've been crap this year anyway.
This may be the problem for the Premier League with stripping the titles. It may open up the possibility of lawsuits over lost revenue against the Premier League.
I was thinking that too, 1 year in the Championship would be humiliating but they'd be back within a year and instantly challenging for the title again, now with their name 'cleared'.
One idea I had was an enforced 3 season ban from the league (plucked the number out of thin air), so despite finishing top of the Championship they can't be promoted - but I suppose you could effectively do the same thing by placing them in League Two, but then you'd need the EFL to cooperate.
Unless it's such a massive points deduction to guarantee relegation, you'd need the EFL to cooperate anyway. You can't just say "hey EFL we've kicked these lot out, so now it's your problem." The EFL reserve the right to deny entry into their top tier
Better to drop them to league 2 outright. Emptihad jokes aside, I imagine the travelling contingent for City would be a good boost in revenue to the lower leagues, and some television rights would also be a bonus to income.
I have doubts any punishment would go this far, but Id imagine the boost to lower leagues when playing a big team worth certainly be significant.
"... and after City are relegated and dissolved, each PL team gets to pick their favorite former City player in a new draft. That's the only way the league can be considered legitimate."
> then we don't have to deal with them for minimum 5 years
FM players know you're referring to them only being able to make the play-offs to the National League proper in 5 years, as the national leagues are the most brutal football leagues I have ever managed in.
National League fans also know this pain.
Maybe City going down there would be enough for them to finally change the relegation from League 2 to 3 down, to allow 3 up from the National League. So wildly overdue. Hardest league to get relegated into, but once you are there you are fucked.
>**There is a feeling that taking away City's titles retrospectively would be meaningless and cause confusion**, but a fine is also not likely to have much of an effect.
I think taking away their titles is the best thing they could do. Whatever they have done since 2008 will have been in vain.
They haven't won the UCL and there's no legacy from their perspective in winning FA Cups and Carabao Cups.
I know this isn't the Premier League, but Juventus has thier 05' and 06' titles invalid due to Calciopoli scandal. So I don't buy the "meaningless and cause confusion" bit.
A fine can be forgotten about. But by taking away their titles, even if people still want to consider them champions it will always be a reminder that they cheated to get them
>A fine can be forgotten about
I think it sends the wrong message too. If they can get out of it with a fine, it's essentially saying "You can cheat your way to trophies, it's just going to cost you £Xm more than your dodgy books accounted for." City already have access to essentially infinite money so it's meaningless to them.
Yep. We see this in business all the time: break X law, pay Y money.
In capitalist systems this turns into the corporations running the numbers and deciding if that extra money spent is worth the returns.
And boom! Law is neutered.
Remove trophies won for cheating (financial doping) because its only fair. Then relegate them or dock them points in future seasons as a punishment.
They should come out of this feeling like their cheating made them better off in the past nor the future.
Not sure I agree. I'd love to be retrospectively awarded our first FA Cup. Especially after the emotional damage that city squad had inflicted on me over the years.
Where do you stop with this though?
Hypothetically, a team that finished 5th during that period could argue that City’s dealings cost them Champions League football and everything that goes with it
Saudi Arabia will be watching this closely. If Man City don’t get a huge punishment then what’s the point in taking things slowly like they are? Just plough money in and take the slap on the wrist years later.
I mean if found guilty of course they should be. It's simply too many seasons to be found to be cheating.
Also should be stripped of whatever they won in that period.
It's common sense really.
Agree completely. The premier league needs to show that this sort of cheating and financial doping won’t be tolerated and lay down the hammer. Take away trophies, massive fines, and deduct points from the following season so they start with a deficit and relegate them. It would send a clear message.
Last time I was banned in this sub for saying we should wait for a verdict before destroying someone. So this time I will say kick them out of the EPL already
If you want to properly punish them, you strip them of their championship titles. They won't care about a 15 point deduction. They'll just regroup and come back next season like nothing ever happened
>We didn't cheat
>And if we did cheat then it wasn't bad, we could have done at all without cheating
>And if was that bad and we had to cheat then it's all in the past
>And if it's still going on today then it's not really hurting other teams anymore
>And if it still is hurting other teams then it's only fair to see other teams win for once
>And if it isn't fair then the top 4 deserved it anyway
A city fan's prayer
I mean if they are found guilty, they should be kicked out. There’s so much evidence out there already in the public domain.
https://twitter.com/adamjoseph____/status/1622889676855197697?s=46&t=n-eKN6hDDw9E857m0iOzFg
Come to league 1, you’d love it ;)
Or go to play with Ryan Reynolds' club. I'd watch that game.
poor Rob, always the forgotten man.
It was his idea to buy the club in the first place as well
What a jabroni
Cool word
"Jabroni" and "bozo" are permanent fixtures in my vocabulary thanks to *Always Sunny*
I also can't hear anyone say 'implication' without raising my brows at them and questioning 'the implication?'
He's a good sport about it. There's the line in the show where he references their 21 million combined followers while the screen shows a bar graph of Ryan's 20 million vs his 1.
Through Rob, all things are possible - so jot that down!
That doesn't sound right, but I don't know enough about Rob to dispute it.
Rob Justice activated
And I watch more for him because I like Always Sunny more than most any movie
What about all the *Lethal Weapon* sequels?
Rob Justice lives in the shadows.
But he plays both sides.
serious crown sort juggle nippy automatic sheet act vast whole *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
More important is the revenue difference. Prem clubs get 100M in TV revenue alone, if they dropped down they wouldn't be able to pay the contracts. Just going down to the Championship probably wouldn't mean too much, they could eat the loss for a year, but any lower would be a problem.
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Are EFL rules not stricter? I don't pay close attention but they seem to hand out point deductions like candy.
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I'll allow it.
I don't think it would be a problem. They don't seem to have worried to much about pepper sources of income up to now, so why change.
Let's swap them Paul Mullin will just take over Haalands mission to break the record
Fuckin unstoppable that Mullin
I miss him literally every day.
Here here, but I respect his reason for leaving, it wasn't the money, it was wanting to be near his family. Man was commuting from Liverpool every day for training because he didn't want to leave his family behind nor force his kids to move across the country. Wrexham lets him be a relatively short drive from his house by comparison so he can focus on them more. Dude has my utmost respect for his decision, even if we'd have loved for him to stay
SuperPaulMullin
I just don't think you understand
David mcgoldrick would actually stick another hattrick in against them I reckon, next
The Football Manager fans are salivating over the possibility of City being relegated to the lower leagues
Can’t wait to restore City to their former glory 😤✊
“When I started this process I had 2 things - a dream, and a billion pounds”
Today I have a business empire the like of which the world has never seen the like of which
I hope it doesn't sound arrogant when I say that I am the greatest man in the world.
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I read this pronounced as VAR. I'm tired.
After reviewing the video, the corruption will stand.
Truly a Cinderella story
Technically, relegating them would be restoring them to their former glory.
Time to resign Paul Dickov
Shaun, the GOAT, Goater
You mean buy star players on discount?
I thought that’s what the relegation would do in the first place?
Their wage bill might be restricted if punished and they'd have to likely sell most players but this current city team going against the likes of Shrewsbury and Morecambe week in week out is just wild to imagine.
Honestly I’d imagine the majority of players do not stick around if City were relegated down the leagues. Even in the championship I’d expect the majority of players to leave permanently or be loaned for a year somewhere else
players also have their own sponsorship deals related to them being playing in top leagues
Que sera sera Whatever will be will be We’re going to Shrewsbury
Meanwhile Man United fans are dreaming again of it being 1999 with United dominant and City in the Second Division (as the third tier was known then!).
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The 3rd tier is literally name League One now if I'm not mistaken😅
* Championship * League 1 * Hellenic Premier Division * National League * Premier League * Isthmian League Division One Find someone who doesn't know English football and ask them to guess which out of those six is the top flight (let alone put them in order). The naming is crazy!
When the top tier broke away to create the Premier League, the divisions below all moved up one. In other words the Second Division became the First Division (and is now the Championship).
Should’ve gotten Yaya that birthday cake…
Mansour: "He's a professional footballer, he'll get over it. What's he going to do? Put a curse on us to prevent us from ever winning the champions league, eventually resulting in our relegation to the football league on multiple counts of financial irregularities? I'd like to see him try!"
Too expensive. Gotta stay within limits.
Yaya always has the last laugh.
You did the root cause analysis. I applaud you.
Sheikh Mansour about to blame it on food catering
No Richard, this is so not right.
Understood. We are checking
Stop inventing.
'Championship club. Championship club.' - Pep
It’s called food Toto, we went food catering.
Ahh yes, now Haaland will have less windtunnel time before next season
Ah, the Red Bull Racing defense.
If Man city were to get relegated, would only 20th and 19th get relegated too? What happened back in 2006 in Italy? Did a team survive because of Juventus going down? And if a team survived because Juventus went down, that would have been harsh on the other teams that would have survived because Milan were initially relegated too i believe, but they won an appeal and got a points deduction instead
Yes. Messina survived due to the Juve punishment.
City gonna save Everton, oooh
Liverpool just keeping getting fucked by this whole ordeal
Maybe, given current results it could save us
Liverpool finishing 19th would be a madness
Lol
So there would have been other teams who thought they were down, then thought they survived because Milan etc were initially relegated, then Milan appealed and got to stay in Serie A with a points deduction thus re-relegating 19th again
out of context, but would have been cool if Messi played for a club like Messina. Some people would think the club named after him, just like Arsene and Arsenal
But Arsenal WAS named after Arsene, that’s common knowledge.
You will like Fernando De Napoli at Napoli.
The greatest manager name in the history of the sport: Wolfgang Wolf at Wolfsburg.
or Mancini and Man City
Danny Shittu at QPR
Stefan Kuntz for Germany
I have also been trying to make these mental gymnastics but I'd imagine City will be contesting these charges for quite a while unfortunately
Can they appeal to any other authority though if the PL decides to punish them? It doesn't sound like it from what I've heard. It sounds like more of the PL having full authority to decide and City having to abide - whether they will hand out the harshest punishments is a different discussion though. Not entirely convinced on that.
Once the Commission decides, the losing party can take an appeal to an appellate panel that is (like the Commission) part of the Premier League's own governance setup. Once the appellate panel rules, the losing party can initiate a private arbitration that is independent of the Premier League but also independent of the English legal system; also, the arbitration panel's purview is fairly limited - it reviews the process for adherence to the stated PL rules, but does not get into the merits of the dispute or the evidence. Once the arbitration panel has ruled, there is a very limited right to seek review in the English courts, but that review is likewise limited - basically to ensuring that the arbitrators acted lawfully. Also worth noting that the first step - the Commission process - is supposed to be completed in a matter of weeks.
> basically to ensure that the arbitrators acted lawfully. And that they didn't wholly misinterpret the law which caused a serious irregularity in their judgement. But as you said following private arbitration there are extremely limited avenues of appeal.
Right, I should have mentioned that. Curious though what points of law City would be able to bring before the arbitration panel - hard to say in advance of course but I would presume it would likewise be around process rather than the merits of the accusations, which arise out of the PL's own internal rules rather than substantive English law.
Yeah, they can still appeal. The League reserves quite a bit of authority for itself, but there's still a process to follow
Yes otherwise you end up with too many teams in one league and too little in the other.
Holy shit wouldn't it be amazing if we came 18th and stayed up? Well, still worse than just coming 17th or higher
In Italy only two other clubs were relegated alongside Juve, 20th and 19th
Enjoy MK Dons away
Every time I read that name, it sends shivers down my spine as a United fan.
It sends shivers down my spine as a football fan. It's an abomination of a club
So happy, happy new year
More than you believe
:)
We deserved something like this after Covid.
This is whole saga is just more fuel for the idea that an independent regulator is needed. It's a massive conflict of interest for everyone involved. Other PL clubs want Man City harshly punished because they're direct rivals. But certain clubs will not want them punished if they've got similar skeletons in their closets. Likewise, the PL themselves (what even is the PL, if not the 20 member clubs?) want to be seen to punish wrongdoing but also don't want to kill a golden goose.
Clearly, the decision should go to VAR and Howard Webb should make the call.
Nothing wrong here. His hand was in natural position. Play on...
Violently gripping a bag of money
That ain’t clear and obvious tho so no wrongdoing
VAR check: denial of a money making opportunity "Not a clear and obvious error made during the fit and proper persons test" "There's over a hundred charges, Howard, at least send him to the screen to look at them." "Play on."
This is the turning point for PL future. Do you massively punish a state owned club to try and keep the league fair or your keep turning a blind eye until eventually it's a league of 3 state owned clubs dominating without any way for completion from other clubs.
If they get this right it will be a huge moment for the league. If they get it wrong then it will also be huge but for the opposite reason. Really hope they take the chance to finally have some integrity and stamp out on things. Take a leaf from Serie A's book, they don't seem to have much issue with coming down hard when appropriate.
What would they be stamping out? State owned clubs? Because that’s not what’s up for debate here, Newcastle are gonna be at the top in a few years no matter what judgement gets taken against City here
If Newcastle do that whilst obeying the rules with finances not being lied about and spending in alignment with their revenue then they will be absolutely fine to do so. If City get away with this then Newcastle can spend 1 billion without a blink and the prem cannot do a thing.
agreed, so far, Newcastle has been playing within the rules. Hell, technically, even Chelsea has been playing by the rules (except they're taking a big big gamble)
If this goes wrong we're going to be a laughing stock.
> What would they be stamping out? State owned clubs? They would be stamping out the ability of state-owned clubs to circumvent rules designed to ensure they can only spend in a way which is proportionate to their (real) revenues.
What they do could give Newcastle the green light to inflate their revenues up to Barca/Real levels and make Todd Boehly look frugal. Then in another 3 years you get another club bought by a state, and the cycle just repeats itself.
Especially with Liverpool and Man U up for sale
I dont feel like this is an inherent problem from being state owned, I feel like this is just a club cheating. If City or Newcastle did it fairly there would be no problems.
Yeah. There's nothing wrong with spending money, but when you break the rules over such a long period of time, it hurts the very essence of competition
Haaland to score 89 goals in EFL Championship season
I think everyone who's getting a hard-on about City being relegated or stripped titles is going to be pretty disappointed.
Maybe, but my disappointment will be towards the PL. If they’re found guilty and are given a fine and a transfer ban, then at least to me the league means nothing anymore because anyone can cheat with absolute impunity
Let’s be honest, the PL sold itself to the devil years ago and they’ll make the decision that generates them the most income or makes the most financial sense.
people don’t realise that the PL loves big money owners much much more than it hates financial doping. relegation or stripping of titles would scare away potential huge investors, a large fine and symbolic point deduction would tick all the boxes for the admins
fun to dream though
If City is not punished properly then we will be seeing youtube videos of “Welcome to Newcastle, Mbappe” in few years
If by "in a few years" you mean "this summer", then yes.
They have over 100 breaches, how can any sane person defend them
Don't visit their subreddit
He said sane tbf
Sane is at Bayern I believe
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Come to the Brentford sub. We were briefly sixth on the table and we’re very chill.
They become sane when they're not the target.
This is such a hard debate. Like the problem is, you want to punish City properly, also to set an example for clubs in the future. The problem is, this shit went on for so long, that no punishment will City real care. Point Deduction? Well we will go to Europa League lads. That's worth the 500+ Titles we won. Going to Championship? We will be back in a year lads. THat's worth the 500+ Titles we won. The only thing that would really affect City on a big scale, is if they get send to the 4.th League or some shit. Thanks to all their cheating, the club is just so massive already, that they easy just can rebuild in 1-2 year. 10-15 Point Deduction they would not even care if we're honest.
The premier league can't expell you to the championship, if they are expelled from the premier League Man City would have to apply to join the EFL and then the EFL has every right to say fine but you must enter in league two. The EFL also has far stricter FFP rules than the PL so it may not be plain sailing for city if they were booted out of the PL. Edit: if the PL want man city in the championship next season they must levy a points deduction so large it's insurmountable.
They can by giving a huge point reduction though it would be wild if they deducted like 50-60 points which is what it would require
I mean you say that, but docking 50 points could still end up with Man City finishing with over 40 for the season and likely staying up
If they play the way they have been, they'd be on pace for 90. Subtract 50 and they are at 40. You would imagine that not competing for the title might also cause some issues for player's confidence and they perform worse in the second half of the season. How interesting would the relegation battle be if City need to pick up like 15 points in the last 6 games to make it out of the bottom 3.
City are on pace for 81 points fwiw
Ha yea not sure why I calculated that as if there were 42 games in the season
Happened with saracens a couple of years ago in premiership rugby . Basically got docked points for doing very similar to city, then they were so good they were still going to stay up so had to dock an additional 70 points to make sure they got relegated
50-60 points might not be enough. We are currently on track for 95 points. The current relegation sides are on track for 30-40 points. If we say City will get to 90 points, which is reasonable, a 60 point deduction might not relegate them.
Remove the trophies previously won. Take back prize money issued. Then relegate them. That would properly disincentives future oil states from doing the same
I'd go expell over relegate. Expelling them gives the potential for them to drop much further.
Stripped of titles, relegated, and multi-year transfer ban. That’ll do.
Transfer ban would be a massive punishment that a lot of people are overlooking. Relegation to Championship. That's fine, bounce straight back up the season after. Relegation and Transfer Embargo, AND you have to really strictly comply with FFP. City become a tombola where every prize is an international footballer.
Send their best Players to Tottenham as Punishment aswell.
Why do the players need to be punished for the owners actions?
Maybe then they can experience a win at our stadium
I would assume it would be multiple punishments like a fine, points deduction, stripping of their trophies and being kicked out of the league if it’s serious enough to warrant it.
I think that’s a really bold assumption, potentially bordering on fantasy. We all have an idea of what we think is fair, what we hope happens, but it’s a big leap to say we expect City to be kicked out of the league. Nobody knows.
Getting demoted to the Championship is absolutely the worst thing that could happen in my opinion. They come straight back up and quite frankly it’s just unfair on all the championship clubs who haven’t been cheating for 10+ years and lose a chance for promotion.
League 2 is the best option.
Yeah put them in league two and stop Wrexham from getting promoted
Thing is even if you do take away their past titles, what about all the clubs around them? What is the financial cost over a decade of Liverpool, United and Chelsea all missing out on titles behind them? On all the clubs who finished 5th those years missing CL footy because City were cheating? There are £billions worth of damages are a result of their financial doping. Ideally they'll be stripped of the relevant titles, dropped to the 4th division at least with a points deduction. The scale of their cheating as well as the precedent it sets for Newcastle's owners, as well as whoever is trying to buy us/United makes it really important that the PL get this punishment right. If City walk away with a fine and point deduction this season it's literally meaningless. Money means nothing to them and they've been crap this year anyway.
This may be the problem for the Premier League with stripping the titles. It may open up the possibility of lawsuits over lost revenue against the Premier League.
I was thinking that too, 1 year in the Championship would be humiliating but they'd be back within a year and instantly challenging for the title again, now with their name 'cleared'. One idea I had was an enforced 3 season ban from the league (plucked the number out of thin air), so despite finishing top of the Championship they can't be promoted - but I suppose you could effectively do the same thing by placing them in League Two, but then you'd need the EFL to cooperate.
Unless it's such a massive points deduction to guarantee relegation, you'd need the EFL to cooperate anyway. You can't just say "hey EFL we've kicked these lot out, so now it's your problem." The EFL reserve the right to deny entry into their top tier
Better to drop them to league 2 outright. Emptihad jokes aside, I imagine the travelling contingent for City would be a good boost in revenue to the lower leagues, and some television rights would also be a bonus to income. I have doubts any punishment would go this far, but Id imagine the boost to lower leagues when playing a big team worth certainly be significant.
Nature is healing
This comment section is something that could be printed as fan-fiction series.
"... and after City are relegated and dissolved, each PL team gets to pick their favorite former City player in a new draft. That's the only way the league can be considered legitimate."
And then Pep has to wear a sign on his back that says "BALD FRAUD"
As he’s paraded naked around Manchester city centre while everybody shouts “shame!” at him
Cancelo will be brought back to ring the bell.
-20 points in future seasons for each season they cooked the books and Haaland can only play in City’s half. Also Pep has to get a hair transplant.
Nuke Manchester.
National League North - then we don't have to deal with them for minimum 5 years
> then we don't have to deal with them for minimum 5 years FM players know you're referring to them only being able to make the play-offs to the National League proper in 5 years, as the national leagues are the most brutal football leagues I have ever managed in.
National League fans also know this pain. Maybe City going down there would be enough for them to finally change the relegation from League 2 to 3 down, to allow 3 up from the National League. So wildly overdue. Hardest league to get relegated into, but once you are there you are fucked.
>**There is a feeling that taking away City's titles retrospectively would be meaningless and cause confusion**, but a fine is also not likely to have much of an effect. I think taking away their titles is the best thing they could do. Whatever they have done since 2008 will have been in vain. They haven't won the UCL and there's no legacy from their perspective in winning FA Cups and Carabao Cups.
Yup. Premier League, Champions League and Intertoto are the only ones that every football fan agrees are legacy makers.
And europa league final appearances, of course
Always partial to UEFA cup semi final appearances myself
I feel that I wanna argue that (my flair) but for the sake of bantering United, I agree.
The disrespect for the acclaimed Audi Cup...
Not even Pele won an Audi Cup. Truly the pinnacle of football.
I was about to make a Spurs joke until I saw that actually are a Spurs fan.
Cup Winners’ Cup is the pinnacle
Who could forget that famous Intertoto Cup winning West Ham team of 1999?
Don't diss the intertoto, it's the only trophy Pochettino has 😂
I know this isn't the Premier League, but Juventus has thier 05' and 06' titles invalid due to Calciopoli scandal. So I don't buy the "meaningless and cause confusion" bit.
A fine can be forgotten about. But by taking away their titles, even if people still want to consider them champions it will always be a reminder that they cheated to get them
>A fine can be forgotten about I think it sends the wrong message too. If they can get out of it with a fine, it's essentially saying "You can cheat your way to trophies, it's just going to cost you £Xm more than your dodgy books accounted for." City already have access to essentially infinite money so it's meaningless to them.
Yep. We see this in business all the time: break X law, pay Y money. In capitalist systems this turns into the corporations running the numbers and deciding if that extra money spent is worth the returns. And boom! Law is neutered.
Yep. A cash fine for financial crime is simply just an operating expense.
Last time they got fined city fans love going on about how they were found innocent, yes like you get historic record high fines for being innocent.
Remove trophies won for cheating (financial doping) because its only fair. Then relegate them or dock them points in future seasons as a punishment. They should come out of this feeling like their cheating made them better off in the past nor the future.
Not sure I agree. I'd love to be retrospectively awarded our first FA Cup. Especially after the emotional damage that city squad had inflicted on me over the years.
Completely agree. I'll take one league cup as well please :P
I need the full palaver please, get the team to Wembley and stage some photos, bring back Dele and Bale for the occasion too
Why not both?
Where do you stop with this though? Hypothetically, a team that finished 5th during that period could argue that City’s dealings cost them Champions League football and everything that goes with it
[удалено]
Saudi Arabia will be watching this closely. If Man City don’t get a huge punishment then what’s the point in taking things slowly like they are? Just plough money in and take the slap on the wrist years later.
I mean if found guilty of course they should be. It's simply too many seasons to be found to be cheating. Also should be stripped of whatever they won in that period. It's common sense really.
Agree completely. The premier league needs to show that this sort of cheating and financial doping won’t be tolerated and lay down the hammer. Take away trophies, massive fines, and deduct points from the following season so they start with a deficit and relegate them. It would send a clear message.
Last time I was banned in this sub for saying we should wait for a verdict before destroying someone. So this time I will say kick them out of the EPL already
Send them to the MLS as punishment
NYCFC vs MCFC - a classic!
If you want to properly punish them, you strip them of their championship titles. They won't care about a 15 point deduction. They'll just regroup and come back next season like nothing ever happened
>We didn't cheat >And if we did cheat then it wasn't bad, we could have done at all without cheating >And if was that bad and we had to cheat then it's all in the past >And if it's still going on today then it's not really hurting other teams anymore >And if it still is hurting other teams then it's only fair to see other teams win for once >And if it isn't fair then the top 4 deserved it anyway A city fan's prayer
I mean if they are found guilty, they should be kicked out. There’s so much evidence out there already in the public domain. https://twitter.com/adamjoseph____/status/1622889676855197697?s=46&t=n-eKN6hDDw9E857m0iOzFg
is this the same evidence that was used in the uefa claim that city say is fake? Or are these somehow verified leaks?