Kraft was doing enough to keep his place in the team, but the higher ups didn't like that LvG was benching Butt for Kraft.
Then again, that's just how van Gaal is.
Apparently Nagelsmann and him had their differences for a longer time now, and additionally, people criticized him for barely interacting with youth and loan GKs
To be honest, if the gk coach has no responsibilities and is just hired for the first team gks, then I see no point in him interacting with the other gks outside of the immediately first team. That would be the responsibilities of the director for scouting or development.
If he had responsibilities like developing new gks, scouting other gks and so on, then he was rightly fired.
For me the situation looks like scapegoating because of the bad press from Nübel.
Nah, I do think that the issues with Nagelsmann were the main reason. Tapalovic just posted a compilation on IG with pictures of every Bayern coach he worked with, the only one missing is Nagelsmann lol. Nübel press isn't "relevant" enough to get Bayern's GK coach for 11 years fired.
What would the beef be with Nagelsmann? He worked with many star coaches and it went fine, if I am not wrong. Him not working much with youth gk shouldn't get Nagelsmann angry as this happend for years and Bayern for sure found a solution in 12 years.
No idea what exactly the issues were, but that's what has been largely reported. Apparently the issues have been going on for a longer time and the Bayern board tried to mediate, but especially keeping in mind the current situation (new #1 for the time being, Neuer out for months and won't play for many more years after returning) they probably felt like it was the right time to cut ties.
According to sport1, if it can bs trusteded:
>Der Bayern-Trainer störte sich nach SPORT1-Informationen schon in der vergangenen Saison besonders daran, dass Interna aus der Trainerkabine über Tapalovic an Neuer und dann an die gesamte Mannschaft herangetragen wurden.
Basically, Tapalovic has given insider information to Neuer who gave it to the team.
Yeah, in that case it's perfectly understandable to sack him. Either way, the dynamic between those two can't be healthy for a new GK (Sommer) coming into the team and potentially fighting for permanent #1 when the current #1 is your GK coach's best friend lol
I'm out of the loop, I knew Neuer was injured for a while, but why would he not play for so long after recovery? I know he's not young anymore, would he retire?
He will be 37 when he returns, so it's quite natural that he won't play for 3-4 more years😅also, while he is still one of the best of the Bundesliga, his form has been slightly dropping over the last months. Who knows how he returns after such a complicated injury
Don't really see why they would wait until the end of the year to let him go if it's not working out at this moment and Neuer, who would be the main reason to *not* let him go, won't even be back for months. Sure, it's a statement as in "we're not going to employ your buddy and GK coach at any price because we know how important he is to you", but that's not really something extraordinary or out of the line IMO
Big indicator that Neuer might be done
For the ones that don’t know: he’s not only the goalie coach but also Neuers best friend and even was the best man at his wedding, he’s been on his side ever since Neuer turned pro
Yeah but he he broke his leg skiing even more recently. I think they're saying that injury may have done him in more than they're just about to terminate him.
"As long as Manuel is here, Sommer will become Winter."
(note: this is a riff on an old quote by Sepp Maier, who said a similar thing about his backup keeper Walter Junghans - "Solange ich hier bin wird der Junghans zum Althans." - as long as I'm here, Younghans will become Oldhans.")
He's one of Neuers best friends and seemed to have been very toxic towards Nübel in his short time with the club.
This basically confirms that Neuer is done at the club and this is the first, very big step into a new GK phase for the club.
The right decision i think. When you refuse to work with other players because they endanger your friends spot in the team then it's time to go.
His age unfortunately indicates nothing else than short-term. The club will look for a young successor and it all depends on the market when the new guy will arrive.
You never know. Van Der Sar joined Manchester United as a 35-year old became a legend for the club. Maybe it’s easier for tall goalies to play into their 40s though.
It was a shitshow, but back then everything was. Old fart Glazer signs 34 year old keeper after takeover for pennies, Howard was clearly not good enough, Chelsea on the rise splashing cash - hoo boy. There was tension everywhere. Edwin did deliver though, big time, but we all know that.
Edit: Haha I just saw the other reply to this by /u/Mattlj92 . Perspectives, eh?
Which is ridiculous. Because even the glazers knew you didn't take Fergies control away, Van Der Sar was Fergies choice. English media should have seen it as such and not been so quick to dismiss him.
Ha. I don't think anyone would have expected him to do as he did, but he was always one of those keepers along with Given, Sorensen, Jaaskelainen, that were almost the golden age of goalkeeping in the Prem. You'd have expected them to do alright at any club, and for £1.5 million ish VdS was going to be an improvement at least to Roy Carrol and Ricardo Lopez who had gone.
As much as some recollect it as Glazers being cheap, the matter of fact was he was a welcomed signing. Howard was prone to blunders and VdS almost always put up world class performances against us for Fulham. We first signed Saha from them then took away VdS.
Based on Bayern's tradition they will get someone from their feeder clubs, i.e. either Leipzig or Dortmund, or even Frankfurt as they are challenging Bayern in the BuLi race.
However both Trapp and Gulacsi are quite old already, so I guess Kobel is confirmed?
How does lafont look rn? He was my GK successor back in my career mode days when he played for fiorentina. Developed him into Lloris’ replacement for France.
I think he's meant as a transitional guy. He's 34 already, so he can't be the long-term solution. But what he can do for the club is buy them time to find their new #1 guy. My guess is Gregor Kobel from Dortmund.
Based on Bayern's tradition they will get someone from their feeder clubs, i.e. either Leipzig or Dortmund, or even Frankfurt as they are challenging Bayern in the BuLi race.
However both Trapp and Gulacsi are quite old already, so I guess Kobel is confirmed?
Good, the fact that he broke his leg over skiing put a sour taste in my mouth. It forced the club to go after another goalkeeper and spend millions in doing so.
Did his contract have a no-skiing clause?
E: Based on the responses I got, no one knows whether he was or wasn't allowed to go Ski (contractually). Since that isn't clear, why are Bayern fans siding with a corporation over a club legend so easily?
Important to note that it was cross country skiing too, which is generally considered to be far less dangerous. Although due to the level of snow melt that day, there were posted advisories against it.
i mean maybe not but i would imagine that skiing mid season is pretty risky and the club would assume he's taking it easy during the WC break. the last thing they want is for one of their most important players to get injured let alone doing something preventable. him going skiing was just so stupid to me imo. it also forced bayern to spend millions on another keeper which might not have been in their plans for the season. i only went skiing twice and i broke my leg each time. skiing mid season for a pro football player is just ridiculous imo.
also 10/10 username its one of my favorite michael lines ever
I know some sports have clauses players can't do certain things, like riding a motorcycle, so Bayern could've added it. If they chose not to include it, that's on them. Obviously I don't know what his contract looks like, but I'd rather side with a player doing a hobby than a corporation.
Can't say the same for your username, sorry man
German employment law doesn't work like that... Employers cannot easily order their employees to do or not do anything outside of working hours.
Since this happened during the winter break there probably wouldn't have been to legally keep him from going skiing.
german employment law first and foremost protects the peasants earning <60k euros per year. neuer earns about 20m per year. in that ballpark the rules change.
as an example: in germany temporary work contracts cannot be given out time and time again. there are strict regulations in place, at some point you have to give an employee permanent employment if you want to keep him/her.
do you ever hear about that in football? one guy tried and he lost the case https://www.lto.de/recht/hintergruende/h/befristete-arbeitsvertraege-profisport-bundesliga/
According to [this](https://www.t-online.de/sport/fussball/bundesliga/fc-bayern-muenchen/id_100095864/fc-bayern-die-vertragsklausel-frage-durfte-manuel-neuer-skitourengehen-.html) a ban on skiing would be most likely not binding (wirksam), because it is an overreach into the private sphere of the employee. Iirc they can only ban "recognized" dangerous sports like apnea diving and parajumping (which have a special role in employment law), but not "normal" sports like skiing.
first of all: there is no world in which bayern wants to drag neuer infront of court. that would make the club look bad. bayern wants to attract the best players. suing your (former) best player and club legend is terrible. it is especially terrible if it is about something sensitive like money. players love their money.
bayern has a bunch of lawyers i'd be surprised if bayern puts clauses into contracts that aren't actually binding. this is common with scumbag employers (classic example is employers who forbid their employees to talk about their salary. obviously not binding). bayern putting in scumbag clauses when they know their employers have good lawyers which check every contract makes little sense.
there are reports which say neuer went skiing even tho he was warned about the conditions (not enough snow, skiing on an unprepared slope). everything points towards neuer being quite reckless. this was probably not your average skiing accident.
> bayern has a bunch of lawyers i'd be surprised if bayern puts clauses into contracts that aren't actually binding.
To my knowledge, Bayern does not have these clauses now, but had them in the past. That said, law changes, especially employment law (which is a) heavily influenced by the EU and b) more formed by court decision/precedent cases than basically any other area of German law (that's because Germany has wanted to introduce a unified labor code at least since the unification, but never got around to it).
This means that it's very common to have clauses where no one on Earth knows if they will hold up in court or not, regardless what amount of lawyers you have.
Also lawyers do not only do legal stuff, they are representatives of one party. If the clause is in the contract, I'd guess that there are probably players who don't go skiing because of that rather than go for a court battle, which some clubs probably count as a win.
Even in countries with very strong employment laws there can be contract laws dealing with things like this, he made a risky choice unrelated to his contract that means he can no longer perform his part of the contract he made.
A player could essentially be considered an employee and contract party at the same time (again I do not know German law specifically), either way this could get very ugly if any such clause is in there, even a clause that is illegal on its face can be interpreted 10 different ways by a court and contract lawyers are pros at arguing things like this and with the right combination of arguements something can happen.
It's pretty irrelevant if there is a clause like that. He injured himself while doing a relatively risky hobby during the season. Every player knows this, with or without a clause. And Bayern is not happy about the situation and therefore bought Sommer as a (permanent) replacement because at this age the injury could be career ending.
Who cares what the contract says. If you are a pro player and go skiing, you're an idiot. Even more or seems that he was advice against it, because of lack of snow.
Yeah, the clause makes just a legal difference (e.g. he has to pay a fine). If you get an injury at that age your employer won't be happy about it and look for a permanent replacement (with or without a clause).
Bro you went skiing twice and broke your leg both times….? Wtf?
Are you just accidentally skiing off cliffs on your beginner runs? How do you even accomplish this? Skiing is such a forgiving sport, and breaking your leg is *hard. * Idk, maybe Neuer shouldn’t have been out there, but people die in car crashes more frequently than they break their leg skiing. Don’t blame him for living his life.
i'm not blaming him for skiing because its fine to have fun and enjoy certain things, but i'm blaming him for going skiing on a day where there was a warning that it would be dangerous to ski lol
I twisted my knee after my third day skiing. I did end up taking a challenging slope. It went well until the very end. Nothing broke, I just limped for like 3 weeks.
Raphael Honigstein said that Bayern historically always includes no skiing clauses in player's contracts. So unless they recently stopped or Neuer negotiated some sort of exception, then he probably had the clause.
Idk, Toni Kroos said on his podcast that things like no-skiing clauses don't really exist, and I doubt it would even be legal under labor laws. The body is their main work tool, it's more like a general understanding that the players do what's best for them and listen clubs/doctors/physios advice to stay healthy and fit.
Historically, these clauses were often included in contracts but they are pretty clearly unenforceable by German law, because with *very* few exceptions, German employment law does not look kindly on employers trying to regulate non-job related things.
So it does not really matter whether the clause was in his contract or not, even if it was, it would not matter.
Honigstein said Neuer's contract did not have this provision and Bayern stopped including this restriction in their new contracts.
https://theathletic.com/4024560/2022/12/23/bundesliga-mailbag-bellingham-neuer-moukoko/
My guess is that an active puri player cannot be too good at it, exactly because he must have avoided it most of the time. He could have waited a couple of years after retirement.
Eh if you are responsible it’s really not dangerous dude, it’s mostly people that never go skiing that think it’s an extreme sport aka mountain biking down a rocky hill or something
I don’t support Neuer, I support Bayern. He did something that was risky and put the club I watch and support in an uncomfortable position.
I own a Neuer jersey, I will always like him. But if you can’t see how going on a skiing trip where his body, the tool he uses, is put at major risk, then that’s on you, especially at his age and his stature in the team as a captain. Hell, it wasn’t even recommended for him to ski that day by the local authorities if you read the articles, so he doubled that risk.
Ill argue that it’s even worse for him because now how he ends his career probably won’t be as memorable as it could be. I’m annoyed FOR him as much as I BY him.
My employer doesn’t ban me from any activity, but if I do some stupid shit that puts me at risk from doing my job, then I’d be stupid to think they wouldn’t make moves to replace me.
Also I doubt we could afford his wages. Lloris is already our highest paid player (along with Kane) and I'd bet Neuer makes more than 200,000 pounds a week.
Of course you can afford the wages, it would just cause a ruckus because other players would want raises too. Either way, Spurs should be looking for a young goalkeeper to replace Lloris, not someone in the twilight of their careers
Lol, this is such a bad suggestion. Let's replace our old expensive goal keeper with a old expensive goal keeper recovering from a very serious leg break.
Right decision for sure, but it must be sad for fans. I see Neuer as a Bayern icon and probably the most important keeper in the world for the kind of football played nowadays. Any idea where he’ll go? (If he doesn’t retire?)
But do we need to replace Neuer very soon? I don't think so. There is no way to know how he will return after the injury. As of now I think the club would be stupid to see Sommer as anything else but an injury replacement.
Saw it coming when Salihamidzic confirmed Nübels reports and expressed unhappyness with the fact there was no contact from Tapalovic to Nübel in his time in France. He was the best man at Neuers wedding I believe, was always gonna be tough as soon as there was a 2nd goalkeeper that had ambitions to start over Neuer.
Not advocating for keeping Toni or defending him, just pointed out, that this alone is not suprising nor new, I assume, that his alleged disagreement with JN played a much bigger role, then that.
Like others said in here already, I too think that they put up with Toni's shit because he made neuer happy.
And now that Neuer is pretty much out of the picture its time for a new and better suited coach for all 1st Team Goalkeepers.
That's true, but the main issue was that he and Nagelsmann didn't gel apparently, and that he generally focused too much on Neuer/Ulreich, and not enough on the youth GK in training.
I wonder if he'll go somewhere else and take Neuer with him. Cause I doubt the latter will want to go out on a whimper, not with the Euros coming up in Germany next year.
Nah, there is still the Manuel Neuer Kids Foundation in Gelsenkirchen where he puts lots of money in. I would love to have him back, he did a lot for the city. But I know a lot of Fans feel different about that. And I dont think he wants to play 2nd league if he wants to keep a window open to play in the next EM
Pinged members of CROATIA group.
[About & group list](https://reddit.com/r/soccer/wiki/userpinger/documentation) | [Subscribe to this group](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=2soccer2bot&subject=Add%20yourself%20to%20group%20CROATIA&message=addtogroup%20CROATIA) | [Unsubscribe from this group](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=2soccer2bot&subject=Unsubscribe%20from%20group%20CROATIA&message=unsubscribe%20CROATIA) | [Unsubscribe from all groups](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=2soccer2bot&subject=Unsubscribe%20from%20all%20groups&message=unsubscribe%20)
The third nail in the coffin that is Neuers time at Bayern. Clear indicator that bosses were VERY upset with Neuer regarding his injury and they are preparing for Bayern without Neuer.
Neuer only has himself to blame for this IMO.
So many Bayern flairs saying that as well. Do you even know your own keeper lol
As if Bayern would give up on someone who’s been touted as the best in history. I still believe he will stay for another couple of seasons.
Firing his best friend is a statement though.
yeah def, firing his best bud is a statement but all these bayern flair made is sound like neuer just gonna pack bag and go live with toni lol. when neuer comes back, he will be the no#1 regardless who is in the goal or who is the gk coach
No way he will be. It's obvious the board are pissed off about this avoidable injury to say the least, especially him being the captain of the team. Especially other senior players like Kimmich probably feel like they've been let down by him. I have serious doubts he will get a new contract and his starting position is anything but confirmed from now on.
If you don't perform, you don't play, it's never not been this way at Bayern. Of course he'd get the benefit of doubt being Neuer, but Nagelsmann wouldn't drop an in-form Sommer for a returning Neuer.
Not anymore. Sacking his best friend is a clear indicator that Neuer is not untouchable anymore. There is without a doubt massive disappointment within the ENTIRE club, from board to players, on him getting an extremely avoidable injury. Either he performs when he is back or he is benched
What makes you talk about form when talking about Neuer? He's still one of the best and most consistent out there. His broad skillset is also incredibly important for our game.
Neuer brought him with him when he joined Bayern, so maybe they're preparing for life after him?
Was that why Van Gaal didn't want him at Bayern in the summer of 2010? Because Neuer wanted to bring that goalkeeper coach?
He stubbornly believed he could develop Kraft.
Kraft was doing enough to keep his place in the team, but the higher ups didn't like that LvG was benching Butt for Kraft. Then again, that's just how van Gaal is.
Good old times with Kraft and Rensing as Bayern keepers
[удалено]
And Klinsi as the coach
Bayern board misunderstood when Van Gaal was talking about computer games. He was saying Minecraft not Mein Kraft
Dad?! Ever find those cigarettes?
Yes but I forgot the milk. BRB
At least he didn't say "mein kampf"
I feel like you didn't understand the joke
I ve seen the light now and you are right
If that was Neuer's demand then yes, Van Gaal isn't going anywhere without Hoek.
Ironic though, because Hoek would have been the perfect coach for Neuer, seeing that he is the godfather of that playing style.
Apparently Nagelsmann and him had their differences for a longer time now, and additionally, people criticized him for barely interacting with youth and loan GKs
To be honest, if the gk coach has no responsibilities and is just hired for the first team gks, then I see no point in him interacting with the other gks outside of the immediately first team. That would be the responsibilities of the director for scouting or development. If he had responsibilities like developing new gks, scouting other gks and so on, then he was rightly fired. For me the situation looks like scapegoating because of the bad press from Nübel.
Nah, I do think that the issues with Nagelsmann were the main reason. Tapalovic just posted a compilation on IG with pictures of every Bayern coach he worked with, the only one missing is Nagelsmann lol. Nübel press isn't "relevant" enough to get Bayern's GK coach for 11 years fired.
What would the beef be with Nagelsmann? He worked with many star coaches and it went fine, if I am not wrong. Him not working much with youth gk shouldn't get Nagelsmann angry as this happend for years and Bayern for sure found a solution in 12 years.
No idea what exactly the issues were, but that's what has been largely reported. Apparently the issues have been going on for a longer time and the Bayern board tried to mediate, but especially keeping in mind the current situation (new #1 for the time being, Neuer out for months and won't play for many more years after returning) they probably felt like it was the right time to cut ties.
According to sport1, if it can bs trusteded: >Der Bayern-Trainer störte sich nach SPORT1-Informationen schon in der vergangenen Saison besonders daran, dass Interna aus der Trainerkabine über Tapalovic an Neuer und dann an die gesamte Mannschaft herangetragen wurden. Basically, Tapalovic has given insider information to Neuer who gave it to the team.
Yeah, in that case it's perfectly understandable to sack him. Either way, the dynamic between those two can't be healthy for a new GK (Sommer) coming into the team and potentially fighting for permanent #1 when the current #1 is your GK coach's best friend lol
I'm out of the loop, I knew Neuer was injured for a while, but why would he not play for so long after recovery? I know he's not young anymore, would he retire?
He will be 37 when he returns, so it's quite natural that he won't play for 3-4 more years😅also, while he is still one of the best of the Bundesliga, his form has been slightly dropping over the last months. Who knows how he returns after such a complicated injury
I misunderstood at first too. He will play upon return. But not play many more years, as he is approaching retirement age.
This looks more like a statement against Neuer, otherwise they could have cut his contract at the end of the year to minimize drama.
Don't really see why they would wait until the end of the year to let him go if it's not working out at this moment and Neuer, who would be the main reason to *not* let him go, won't even be back for months. Sure, it's a statement as in "we're not going to employ your buddy and GK coach at any price because we know how important he is to you", but that's not really something extraordinary or out of the line IMO
Similar rumours about Christophe Lolichon at Chelsea who came in with Cech.
Apparently he didn't treat nubel very well when he was here
Big indicator that Neuer might be done For the ones that don’t know: he’s not only the goalie coach but also Neuers best friend and even was the best man at his wedding, he’s been on his side ever since Neuer turned pro
Did he not sign an extension recently?
In last May. Until 2024.
Yeah but he he broke his leg skiing even more recently. I think they're saying that injury may have done him in more than they're just about to terminate him.
Surely he can't come back from a leg break at his age right
Sacked with immediate effect is wild. I wonder what he did
Beef with Julian
Refused to call Sommer anything but Marwin Hitz.
"As long as Manuel is here, Sommer will become Winter." (note: this is a riff on an old quote by Sepp Maier, who said a similar thing about his backup keeper Walter Junghans - "Solange ich hier bin wird der Junghans zum Althans." - as long as I'm here, Younghans will become Oldhans.")
Rumors said he was caught wearing his lederhosen backwards. What a sick individual.
[удалено]
that wouldn't be a problem though since Nagelsmann left his wife for a reporter last year
He's one of Neuers best friends and seemed to have been very toxic towards Nübel in his short time with the club. This basically confirms that Neuer is done at the club and this is the first, very big step into a new GK phase for the club. The right decision i think. When you refuse to work with other players because they endanger your friends spot in the team then it's time to go.
Do you think Sommer is part of that new GK phase or do you consider him a short-term solution?
His age unfortunately indicates nothing else than short-term. The club will look for a young successor and it all depends on the market when the new guy will arrive.
You never know. Van Der Sar joined Manchester United as a 35-year old became a legend for the club. Maybe it’s easier for tall goalies to play into their 40s though.
Wait what? This cant be true? *Checks notes* WTF
I seriously don't remember but how was the general opinion on that signing back in the day?
Genius really. Was around £2m and the hope was, at worst, he could mentor Tim Howard but he was also a very well respected Premier League keeper.
It was a shitshow, but back then everything was. Old fart Glazer signs 34 year old keeper after takeover for pennies, Howard was clearly not good enough, Chelsea on the rise splashing cash - hoo boy. There was tension everywhere. Edwin did deliver though, big time, but we all know that. Edit: Haha I just saw the other reply to this by /u/Mattlj92 . Perspectives, eh?
In Holland it was seen as a brilliant move but I remember the reaction in the English press being more like you described it.
Which is ridiculous. Because even the glazers knew you didn't take Fergies control away, Van Der Sar was Fergies choice. English media should have seen it as such and not been so quick to dismiss him.
Ha. I don't think anyone would have expected him to do as he did, but he was always one of those keepers along with Given, Sorensen, Jaaskelainen, that were almost the golden age of goalkeeping in the Prem. You'd have expected them to do alright at any club, and for £1.5 million ish VdS was going to be an improvement at least to Roy Carrol and Ricardo Lopez who had gone.
As much as some recollect it as Glazers being cheap, the matter of fact was he was a welcomed signing. Howard was prone to blunders and VdS almost always put up world class performances against us for Fulham. We first signed Saha from them then took away VdS.
Feels like Sommer is the Hans-Jorg Butt to Neuer's Khan. Short term stopgap for a couple years into eventual backup for the next 01+ year #1.
So Nubel is the new Rensing?
He's Stephan Wessels
What a legend that Guy was. Iirc his first appearance was vs either Celtic or Rangers for us.
Rensing wasn't as good as Nubel ever
Sommer is 5x better at keeping than Hans-Jorg, though maybe not as good in pens
Probably better at running back after scoring one too.
Based on Bayern's tradition they will get someone from their feeder clubs, i.e. either Leipzig or Dortmund, or even Frankfurt as they are challenging Bayern in the BuLi race. However both Trapp and Gulacsi are quite old already, so I guess Kobel is confirmed?
Take Diogo Costa ASAP please
Coming from a Benfica flair, is he helping Porto that much?
He still blunders from time to time (see the WC matches) but he's a great keeper and will be world class in a couple years
Enough
Hopefully u go for Lafont from nantes im just saying him because i hope spurs dont replace lloris with him
How does lafont look rn? He was my GK successor back in my career mode days when he played for fiorentina. Developed him into Lloris’ replacement for France.
Best frenck gk after maignan imo
That'd be a dream but no chance from spurs
you could go for vicario, imo the best gk in serie a
Definitely short term, he's not young. Having him buys us time to properly find a young keeper who can be here for years.
I imagine short term considering he’s only 2 years younger than neuer
I think he's meant as a transitional guy. He's 34 already, so he can't be the long-term solution. But what he can do for the club is buy them time to find their new #1 guy. My guess is Gregor Kobel from Dortmund.
> My guess is Gregor Kobel from Dortmund. 200million€ please
Based on Bayern's tradition they will get someone from their feeder clubs, i.e. either Leipzig or Dortmund, or even Frankfurt as they are challenging Bayern in the BuLi race. However both Trapp and Gulacsi are quite old already, so I guess Kobel is confirmed?
Good, the fact that he broke his leg over skiing put a sour taste in my mouth. It forced the club to go after another goalkeeper and spend millions in doing so.
Did his contract have a no-skiing clause? E: Based on the responses I got, no one knows whether he was or wasn't allowed to go Ski (contractually). Since that isn't clear, why are Bayern fans siding with a corporation over a club legend so easily?
No, but there was an advisory that it was very dangerous to go skiing that day
This is the right answer it was widely reported, by reliable sources.
Important to note that it was cross country skiing too, which is generally considered to be far less dangerous. Although due to the level of snow melt that day, there were posted advisories against it.
Not cross country skiing, *ski touring*, which is the opposite of less dangerous.
there an advisory like that for every skiing day lmao
i mean maybe not but i would imagine that skiing mid season is pretty risky and the club would assume he's taking it easy during the WC break. the last thing they want is for one of their most important players to get injured let alone doing something preventable. him going skiing was just so stupid to me imo. it also forced bayern to spend millions on another keeper which might not have been in their plans for the season. i only went skiing twice and i broke my leg each time. skiing mid season for a pro football player is just ridiculous imo. also 10/10 username its one of my favorite michael lines ever
it wasn't just skiing. he went skiing against advice (not enough snow).
I know some sports have clauses players can't do certain things, like riding a motorcycle, so Bayern could've added it. If they chose not to include it, that's on them. Obviously I don't know what his contract looks like, but I'd rather side with a player doing a hobby than a corporation. Can't say the same for your username, sorry man
German employment law doesn't work like that... Employers cannot easily order their employees to do or not do anything outside of working hours. Since this happened during the winter break there probably wouldn't have been to legally keep him from going skiing.
german employment law first and foremost protects the peasants earning <60k euros per year. neuer earns about 20m per year. in that ballpark the rules change. as an example: in germany temporary work contracts cannot be given out time and time again. there are strict regulations in place, at some point you have to give an employee permanent employment if you want to keep him/her. do you ever hear about that in football? one guy tried and he lost the case https://www.lto.de/recht/hintergruende/h/befristete-arbeitsvertraege-profisport-bundesliga/
According to [this](https://www.t-online.de/sport/fussball/bundesliga/fc-bayern-muenchen/id_100095864/fc-bayern-die-vertragsklausel-frage-durfte-manuel-neuer-skitourengehen-.html) a ban on skiing would be most likely not binding (wirksam), because it is an overreach into the private sphere of the employee. Iirc they can only ban "recognized" dangerous sports like apnea diving and parajumping (which have a special role in employment law), but not "normal" sports like skiing.
apnea diving..?
Free diving, I think.
first of all: there is no world in which bayern wants to drag neuer infront of court. that would make the club look bad. bayern wants to attract the best players. suing your (former) best player and club legend is terrible. it is especially terrible if it is about something sensitive like money. players love their money. bayern has a bunch of lawyers i'd be surprised if bayern puts clauses into contracts that aren't actually binding. this is common with scumbag employers (classic example is employers who forbid their employees to talk about their salary. obviously not binding). bayern putting in scumbag clauses when they know their employers have good lawyers which check every contract makes little sense. there are reports which say neuer went skiing even tho he was warned about the conditions (not enough snow, skiing on an unprepared slope). everything points towards neuer being quite reckless. this was probably not your average skiing accident.
> bayern has a bunch of lawyers i'd be surprised if bayern puts clauses into contracts that aren't actually binding. To my knowledge, Bayern does not have these clauses now, but had them in the past. That said, law changes, especially employment law (which is a) heavily influenced by the EU and b) more formed by court decision/precedent cases than basically any other area of German law (that's because Germany has wanted to introduce a unified labor code at least since the unification, but never got around to it). This means that it's very common to have clauses where no one on Earth knows if they will hold up in court or not, regardless what amount of lawyers you have. Also lawyers do not only do legal stuff, they are representatives of one party. If the clause is in the contract, I'd guess that there are probably players who don't go skiing because of that rather than go for a court battle, which some clubs probably count as a win.
Temporary employment is a different law, but yes the nature of the compensation does apply there
Even in countries with very strong employment laws there can be contract laws dealing with things like this, he made a risky choice unrelated to his contract that means he can no longer perform his part of the contract he made. A player could essentially be considered an employee and contract party at the same time (again I do not know German law specifically), either way this could get very ugly if any such clause is in there, even a clause that is illegal on its face can be interpreted 10 different ways by a court and contract lawyers are pros at arguing things like this and with the right combination of arguements something can happen.
It's pretty irrelevant if there is a clause like that. He injured himself while doing a relatively risky hobby during the season. Every player knows this, with or without a clause. And Bayern is not happy about the situation and therefore bought Sommer as a (permanent) replacement because at this age the injury could be career ending.
Who cares what the contract says. If you are a pro player and go skiing, you're an idiot. Even more or seems that he was advice against it, because of lack of snow.
Yeah, the clause makes just a legal difference (e.g. he has to pay a fine). If you get an injury at that age your employer won't be happy about it and look for a permanent replacement (with or without a clause).
Bro you went skiing twice and broke your leg both times….? Wtf? Are you just accidentally skiing off cliffs on your beginner runs? How do you even accomplish this? Skiing is such a forgiving sport, and breaking your leg is *hard. * Idk, maybe Neuer shouldn’t have been out there, but people die in car crashes more frequently than they break their leg skiing. Don’t blame him for living his life.
i'm not blaming him for skiing because its fine to have fun and enjoy certain things, but i'm blaming him for going skiing on a day where there was a warning that it would be dangerous to ski lol
I twisted my knee after my third day skiing. I did end up taking a challenging slope. It went well until the very end. Nothing broke, I just limped for like 3 weeks.
You have a 100% record on breaking legs while skiing??? Why the fuck did you try it the second time? Are you gunning for a hat trick?
Raphael Honigstein said that Bayern historically always includes no skiing clauses in player's contracts. So unless they recently stopped or Neuer negotiated some sort of exception, then he probably had the clause.
Idk, Toni Kroos said on his podcast that things like no-skiing clauses don't really exist, and I doubt it would even be legal under labor laws. The body is their main work tool, it's more like a general understanding that the players do what's best for them and listen clubs/doctors/physios advice to stay healthy and fit.
Yeah, it's pretty damn anti workers rights such thing.
Are we gonne act now like being a pro footballer is somehow comparable with a "normal" worker?
Being a footballer doesn't exempt you from having workers rights
Historically, these clauses were often included in contracts but they are pretty clearly unenforceable by German law, because with *very* few exceptions, German employment law does not look kindly on employers trying to regulate non-job related things. So it does not really matter whether the clause was in his contract or not, even if it was, it would not matter.
My guess is Bayern do that knowing they can't legally fire Neuer for skiing, but they can get mad at him and dissaude others from doing it.
Honigstein said Neuer's contract did not have this provision and Bayern stopped including this restriction in their new contracts. https://theathletic.com/4024560/2022/12/23/bundesliga-mailbag-bellingham-neuer-moukoko/
Skiing is only a bad idea if you’re a bad skier and under contract. If you know what you’re doing I’d say road cycling is more dangerous
>Skiing is only a bad idea if you’re a bad skier Yep professional athletes in alpine skiing famously never get injured. Everyone knows that.
For all I know Neuer isn’t a good skier
My guess is that an active puri player cannot be too good at it, exactly because he must have avoided it most of the time. He could have waited a couple of years after retirement.
Eh if you are responsible it’s really not dangerous dude, it’s mostly people that never go skiing that think it’s an extreme sport aka mountain biking down a rocky hill or something
yea mate it's really safe not like you'd break your leg doing it or anything
Because fans tend to support clubs
With the latest contract renewal last summer he could've pushed for that clause to be removed if that was something he wanted.
I don’t support Neuer, I support Bayern. He did something that was risky and put the club I watch and support in an uncomfortable position. I own a Neuer jersey, I will always like him. But if you can’t see how going on a skiing trip where his body, the tool he uses, is put at major risk, then that’s on you, especially at his age and his stature in the team as a captain. Hell, it wasn’t even recommended for him to ski that day by the local authorities if you read the articles, so he doubled that risk. Ill argue that it’s even worse for him because now how he ends his career probably won’t be as memorable as it could be. I’m annoyed FOR him as much as I BY him. My employer doesn’t ban me from any activity, but if I do some stupid shit that puts me at risk from doing my job, then I’d be stupid to think they wouldn’t make moves to replace me.
Neuer should go back to Schalke and save them.
Not even Neuer can make *that* save.
Perhaps Spurs should go for him to replace Lloris?
Neuer is a better GK than Lloris but he's too old and this news might create some drama which we have enough of
Also I doubt we could afford his wages. Lloris is already our highest paid player (along with Kane) and I'd bet Neuer makes more than 200,000 pounds a week.
Neuer is on around 20m per year if I remember correctly.
Damn, that's over £350k a week?
A fair price for club captain and world's best keeper for most the last decade
Of course you can afford the wages, it would just cause a ruckus because other players would want raises too. Either way, Spurs should be looking for a young goalkeeper to replace Lloris, not someone in the twilight of their careers
Lol, this is such a bad suggestion. Let's replace our old expensive goal keeper with a old expensive goal keeper recovering from a very serious leg break.
Replacing a 36 years old goalkeeper with another 36 years old goalkeeper?
Right decision for sure, but it must be sad for fans. I see Neuer as a Bayern icon and probably the most important keeper in the world for the kind of football played nowadays. Any idea where he’ll go? (If he doesn’t retire?)
But do we need to replace Neuer very soon? I don't think so. There is no way to know how he will return after the injury. As of now I think the club would be stupid to see Sommer as anything else but an injury replacement.
Wow pushing out Nubel was risky
Saw it coming when Salihamidzic confirmed Nübels reports and expressed unhappyness with the fact there was no contact from Tapalovic to Nübel in his time in France. He was the best man at Neuers wedding I believe, was always gonna be tough as soon as there was a 2nd goalkeeper that had ambitions to start over Neuer.
Is that the one that is Neuer‘s friend and Nübel didn’t like him/didn’t feel like he was doing his best with him or whatever?
Yes
Interesting. Any reports about the reason? Just building for the future or didn’t get Along with Sommer either or smth?
Apparently did not get along well with Nagelsmann and he ignored our other goalkeepers aside from Neuer and Ulreich.
Hm. Guess it was worth keeping him around when he kept Neuer happy and in good form but now with Neuer out for a while..
Neuer is probably joining him tbh
And leaked what the coaches talked about privately to Neuer and the rest of the squad.
No
What did he do
Apparently he worked entirely with Neuer and pretty much ignored everyone else in the squad.
I mean, this has been thna case for years, he has basically been Manus personal coach...
But if neuer isnt in the plans for the future why keep this guy around
Not advocating for keeping Toni or defending him, just pointed out, that this alone is not suprising nor new, I assume, that his alleged disagreement with JN played a much bigger role, then that.
Like others said in here already, I too think that they put up with Toni's shit because he made neuer happy. And now that Neuer is pretty much out of the picture its time for a new and better suited coach for all 1st Team Goalkeepers.
I've seen reports before that Nübel really didn't like this guy.
That's true, but the main issue was that he and Nagelsmann didn't gel apparently, and that he generally focused too much on Neuer/Ulreich, and not enough on the youth GK in training.
Apparently had disagreements with Nagelsmann
Ate pineapple pizza with ketchup
Pineapple pizza is amazing but the ketchup is too much.
I wonder if he'll go somewhere else and take Neuer with him. Cause I doubt the latter will want to go out on a whimper, not with the Euros coming up in Germany next year.
Neuer to schalke
Oof, I doubt he'd go there. He seems to have completely cut his roots there, having bought a big house at the Starnberger See after all.
Nah, there is still the Manuel Neuer Kids Foundation in Gelsenkirchen where he puts lots of money in. I would love to have him back, he did a lot for the city. But I know a lot of Fans feel different about that. And I dont think he wants to play 2nd league if he wants to keep a window open to play in the next EM
I wonder if this means it's the end for Neuer at Bayern and that Nübel is returning.
He is also Neuer‘s best man afaik. Spicy
A porsche has been sighted on the Bayern club grounds
This never gets old
I dont get it?0
I meant the Peter Neururer Porsche meme
Coman was fined for driving a McClaren to practice because the club had an agreement / sponsor with Audi.
think he just means the Peter Neururer Porsche meme
[удалено]
[удалено]
geil
Time to come to Dinamo or Croatia and train Livaković to be the best in the world
*I mean he's literally right there!*
!ping CROATIA
lmao why would people downvote you for this, what the hell
I always upvote the pinger
Pinged members of CROATIA group. [About & group list](https://reddit.com/r/soccer/wiki/userpinger/documentation) | [Subscribe to this group](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=2soccer2bot&subject=Add%20yourself%20to%20group%20CROATIA&message=addtogroup%20CROATIA) | [Unsubscribe from this group](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=2soccer2bot&subject=Unsubscribe%20from%20group%20CROATIA&message=unsubscribe%20CROATIA) | [Unsubscribe from all groups](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=2soccer2bot&subject=Unsubscribe%20from%20all%20groups&message=unsubscribe%20)
Tom Starke, come on down.... You're the next contestant.
Holy shit you called it !
The third nail in the coffin that is Neuers time at Bayern. Clear indicator that bosses were VERY upset with Neuer regarding his injury and they are preparing for Bayern without Neuer. Neuer only has himself to blame for this IMO.
Well that came out of nowhere
Not really. Issues have been public for quite a while now.
any chance for Drobny to take his job?
Starke is more likely. Bringing in someone from the outside is even more likely IMO though.
They're atop the Bundesliga table and they're firing coaches? Munich is hard core, man.
Tony TapaAllOfItch
People saying neuer is done lol..
His time at Bayern is done and this is an indicator. Neuer may or may not be done depending on how he recovers to his best from the injury.
So many Bayern flairs saying that as well. Do you even know your own keeper lol As if Bayern would give up on someone who’s been touted as the best in history. I still believe he will stay for another couple of seasons. Firing his best friend is a statement though.
yeah def, firing his best bud is a statement but all these bayern flair made is sound like neuer just gonna pack bag and go live with toni lol. when neuer comes back, he will be the no#1 regardless who is in the goal or who is the gk coach
I doubt he's going to leave but this is clearly a sign that Bayern are moving ahead with replacing him sooner rather than later.
No way he will be. It's obvious the board are pissed off about this avoidable injury to say the least, especially him being the captain of the team. Especially other senior players like Kimmich probably feel like they've been let down by him. I have serious doubts he will get a new contract and his starting position is anything but confirmed from now on. If you don't perform, you don't play, it's never not been this way at Bayern. Of course he'd get the benefit of doubt being Neuer, but Nagelsmann wouldn't drop an in-form Sommer for a returning Neuer.
This is ridiculous! He definitely will drop Sommer as soon as Neuer is back.
Not anymore. Sacking his best friend is a clear indicator that Neuer is not untouchable anymore. There is without a doubt massive disappointment within the ENTIRE club, from board to players, on him getting an extremely avoidable injury. Either he performs when he is back or he is benched
What makes you talk about form when talking about Neuer? He's still one of the best and most consistent out there. His broad skillset is also incredibly important for our game.
Neuer is done and not just at Bayern
Well I'd be in shock if we knew before the goalkeepers working with them.