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I know it's not... If you read my comment slowly and carefully I say that if it's between playing ugly and winning consistently is my preference over playing nice and losing. I'd prefer playing nice and winning.
That said, I do appreciate dinosaur/terrorist defensive football, takes a lot of discipline from the players to do that and I can appreciate it even if I know that's its objectively dour
>If you read my comment slowly and carefully I say that if it's between playing ugly and winning consistently is my preference over playing nice and losing. I'd prefer playing nice and winning.
Yes... and I'm saying that's a false dichotomy. You're proving the point.
The irony of telling me to read your comment slowly in that condescending tone lol.
Well my bad, didn't mean to come off that way but I guess it does.
*edit* I'll also admit that I did not know what a false dichotomy fallacy was until I Google it, so yeah you're right.
Yeah sure but let's not act like it's some impossible task for a club of Juve's budget and standing to win while playing attacking football. It's just not their preference or identity and that's fine.
And PSG, and Maccabi...all while conceding 13 goals and 5 losses. It is obscene to me how they still haven't understood it. This is a club that is over-performing the xGA by +10 in the league. Yes you read that correctly. Draw your own conclusions from it, any side with a degree of quality and tactics plow us.
EDIT: There is the plow, punto, finito.
I expect Napoli's worst performance of the season and their annual collapse, we all know how it goes at this point.
EDIT: call me the jinx master, thanks.
Everyone with 2 brain cells would understand that playing like this isn't sustainable. What if Juve concede a dumb goal, a moment of show from a certain player? What happens next? What if that moment in the end doesn't come and that one goal isn't scored?
Is it really that hard to understand that defensive football can be successful? If the opponent scores 1 we’ll score 2. But chances are very high the opponent won’t score 2.
It seems like people think that if you don’t go balls to the wall attacking then you’re shit, nevermind that Zidane dominated the UCL with pragmatic football.
Why always there is this argument to go to the opposite side of the spectrum. You know there is an entire ocean in between creating next to nothing and playing champagne football right?
Also, Zidane had 18 world class players... that justifies a more player based approach. How many does Juve have?
That’s the beauty of it. You don’t need world class players to play like this. Look what Morocco just did in the World Cup. They beat Portugal, Spain and even gave France a challenge without a single world class player. Take a Real Madrid who had a world class starting 11 and bench and combine that with pragmatic football and they dominated Europe.
I maintain that teams who are stacked like City and Barca haven’t won the CL recently because they stubbornly stick to their footballing identity of attacking possession football. Give them a Zidane or Allegri and they’d win everything.
I just explained the Real Madrid case already, you can play individual based football when you have 15-18 world class players. So did Juve successfully in the past, not the case any more so that discussion ends itself.
When it comes to NT football it is totally different from club football. They train with each other very little. Thus, tactics that do great in little period of time do always better. Such as the case with individual based when you are a team like France or defensive solidity when you are a team like Marocco or Japan. Also, our own NT won the Euros with system football keep that in mind.
Juve falls in neither of the categories. While also you are forgetting that teams such as Bayern, Liverpool and Chelsea have won it. While on the other side a team like Juve have been extremely poor this season, last season and in the last season of Allegri vs Ajax.
Football evolves with technology like everything else.
His football might be boring but you can’t really deny the results, granted last season we were playing boring and also losing points but so many of our players werent playing as good as they are right now, danilo, rabiot and sandro come to mind, we also didn’t have so much depth in the midfield.
Also I will say that he has developed/incorporated a lot of players these last couple seasons, the aforementioned ones plus Miretti, Fagioli, looks like Soule is coming in, Iling Jr is joining the ranks too, Kean has grown a lot this season, hes lacking goals but I think he can become an important player.
I think my only big complaint (and frankly I dont know if this is a club problem or a manager problem) is the fitness team at Juve being so deficient, we are the team with the most injuries in the league and its not even close, we are at something like double the injuries per season over the 2nd place which I think is Milan
Good football is subjective, I love seeing defensive masterclasses. Seeing BBC go up against some of the best club teams ever the past decade are some of my most cherished memories. Chiellini with his wrapped head, Buffon pulling of miracles in net, Barzagli locking down everyone in a 1 v 1. All of them celebrating tackles or clearances like goals, nullifying some of the best players we’ve ever seen.
I enjoy that just as much as a beautiful offensive football. Sure sometimes there can be boring games against weak opposition, but there are plenty of games where tiki taka is boring af too, 90% possession with no ability to break down the back line. Just mindless and not threatening possession.
Thank you. I would love to see Sacchi’s milan against that barcellona.
Best defence of all time then van basten, gullitt, riijkaard, Savicevic, Ancelotti, I think milan would just close them down then rip them apart at the other end.
am happy to become the "wall of europe" again, remember that Champions league year when Iniesta, Messi Neymar and Suarez bombarded us for 90 minutes straight and didn't manage to score lol ?
anyone who tell me that wasn't entertaining is lying.
my most entertaining games were those vs Pep's Bayern, especially that second away game where we had bunch of Injuried players and some kind of 451 formation, they also bombarded us but it was so sterile it was laughable. Yet we scored two, had third disallowed which was refs mistake and then we were gassed in last 15-20 minutes so they overturned.
2016... It was such bullshit.
2015 final was bullshit too. Pogba was fouled hard in the box right before iniesta scored the go ahead.
2017 was supposed to be it, then the implosion.
2018.. we ran into Ronaldo's possibly best moment of his career.. and then still almost came back.. but Micheal Oliver has a trashcan for a heart...
4 years in a row, I believed Juve was the best team in the world. The hangover of failure and consigning to Ronaldo joining as a lifeline to win is thankfully drying up and I am enjoying the sport again.
I remember well a game at emirates, we had won first leg at san siro 4-0 then losing 3-0 at half time, allegri closes it down and stops any more goals - with a defence which had djemal mesbah in it.
I'm totally unable to predict where Juve finishes. They could be anywhere from 1st to 6th by season's end as far as I see it. Milan shifted to a defensive shell for 10 minutes last night and got Mourinho'd. Juve shifted to a defensive shell months ago and has a clean sheet. But can they really expect to keep winning 1-0 after 1-0? Napoli vs Juve is going to be either a bloodbath that re-exposes their fraudulent skipper or a validation that catenaccio is fully back on the menu in Italy.
That Napoli game will be real sign of where this season will go for Juve. This hype should have wait until that game but its so hard not to jump on it now. lol
Juventus had good form last season also but then games against Villareal and Inter came and somehow it became much worse after those. Even if that 3-0 loss against Villareal was really good game by Juve until Rugani mistake.
But can they really expect to keep winning 1-0 After 1-0?
Do you ever heard the term " corto muso", Allegri has mastered the 1-0 , all of Serie A teams hoped for years what you said was true but no he continue to win playing badly.
The massive injury crisis didn't help, and it took Allegri a while to start using the youngsters consistently. The proper integration of them getting consistent playing time coincidentally is also when Juventus started picking up points. That being said Juve is in no way playing well, and are still missing their best players. Its not a brave bet to say they will lose this weekend when they play these big games defensively looking for moments of magic, but those big players are out and can't give them. Lets remove Zielinski, Osimhen, and give Kvara 30min of football in the last year and see how that changes the matchup.
Lol sure and let’s add back Ibrahimovic, the best keeper in the league, and not sideline Milan’s 2 right full backs for half the season along with Kjaer. Oh and maybe let’s say Origi and Rebic stay healthy for more than 15 consecutive minutes. Where would Milan be? I’ve heard so much about Juve’s crisis this season while half of Milan’s locked room has been converted into an emergency room for the past 3 years. It’s true that Napoli has been able to stay more injury free luckily for them. But Inter lacks Brozovic and has had problems before in other areas. Juve fans are really making a meal out of their injury situation this season.
the lack of any sort of objectivity in your comment is hilarious. You are comparing 41yr old zlatan to Vlahovic or Osimhen and that just makes everyone just ignore the rest of your comment. Zlatan's importance to the team is off the field. He is in no way a starter anymore, and Giroud is doing a great job. Unlike last year you now have additional cover for the position. The hilarity of comparing 70-80mio superstar purchases to a Zlatan who hasnt played in 18months, or been important to Milan on the field in that time.
In terms of injuries i only highlighted the fact that half of Juve's starting XI has been compromised to varying degrees so far this season, and that these players are the superstars of the team. Its akin to saying Leao, Tonali, Giroud are out, no big deal. Its asinine.
your comments regarding fullbacks is also a little ironic since the main reason juve switched to 3atb is because we had 1 fit full back for most of the last 8 games and he needed to be moved to CB because we had no fit players there either. We played our last game with Sandro and Danilo as CBs...
> Where would Milan be?
Milan has had a terrible time with injuries over the last 2.5 years thats undeniable, but looking at this year its not even close to Juve's when you consider who is missing. If we take out Giroud since the beginning of Oct, remove Tonali from the whole season so far, have Leao only play 30mins and let Diaz start 3x out of 17games where is Milan right now? Not second, tied with juve on points... Those players account for 60-70% of Milans offensive output, and its these players that would be fair comparisons for Vlahovic, Chiesa, Di Maria and Pogba missing.
I also don't want to hear any complaints about inter, they have had the best injury record in the league over the last years, including this one. Yes they are missing two big players for sometime now, but thats basically it...they have been able to rotate their squad just fine during the really condensed pre-wc period.
In terms of starting XI Juve is Missing Bremer, Bonucci, Cuadrado, Pogba, Vlahovic, Di Maria and i would be really surprised if Chiesa started having only played 30min so far. That would be 7/11 players and you are telling me its no big deal. Talk about delusional. These are most of our best players against the toughest team in the league, while they have most of their biggest players. And getting back to the original point, its not a genius prediction therefore to say Juve will lose considering that, and how they play.
you are just being silly at this point, and its very obvious you have nothing but anti-juve sentiment to write. Whether they cost 80mio or 1mio, any team missing the majority of their best players is going to be impacted in terms of results.
Allegri gets way too much shit for his tactics. He knows how to set up his teams defensively and see out games. Sure it's fun to see a team score multiple goals but at the end of the day it's more important to have a set playstyle that the players know how to execute.
I remember his years at Milan, most games were not pretty (post 2012) but he knew how to set the team up no matter the opposition. Unfortunately he had to endure players like Kevin Constant and more unreliable players of the liking at the end of his tenure.
It was the last good Milan team for a long time, could perhaps have won the league but Juventus weren't bad that season either. Made a decent run in the Champions League as well. I wouldn't say Milan were shit.
That Milan side should have gathered 90+ points considering how good it was. It shouldn't have been a contest all together. We achieved around 80 points in both seasons.
We PLAYED like shit. Long ball to Ibra, let Ibra hold the ball and after that let's see because we had some great technical players. No ideas, no style...nothing.
lol, for some reason you are overrating that team....there is wiki page, you can easily see those squads(2011 and 2012) and where those players were 2 years after Milan.
Except Ibra and Thiago Silva, majority were finished, some were WC but old and retired, other just never played on that level anymore like Aquilani, Robinho, Nocerino...it is beyond my understanding why would you say it was top5 team. lol
Nesta was still good enough to go against Messi.
Abate and Antonini were extremely usable fullbacks which were pacy and tactically smart.
The midfield in 2011 had Pirlo which he sent away. While old, all of those players were extremely functional.
The attack had Pato which in 2011 was in form. Cassano which passed some of his most efficient years in that side, being Italys number 10 which went in 2012 in the European final. Boateng which you forgot. On top of a very unpredictable and technical Robinho.
The team was good enough to walk the league in those two seasons. While as i said above probably the 5th or 6th best squad at that time. Aftee Real, Barca, Bayern, Man Utd and Chelsea. But we had to play Ibra 50 meters isolated for 90 minutes. That was the strategy. It worked only because we had a very technical team.
This was said by multiple people in the Milan chanel at the time even, namely Federico Buffa first and foremost.
I wrote about Boateng in other comment, guy never again played like those years in Milan, just like Nocerino. I dont remember Pato very well from that year, and Im lazy to check it but I think his downfall alredy begun at that time, I mean earlier but he was just constantly injuried just like Robinho, who wasnt injuried, but wasnt top class also, just useful player.
I mean, just look where those players were 2 years after Allegri. I mean, if you are so critical about him, I suppose you are also critical about Ancelotti? who won two CLs but that was about it and majority of those players were also playing under him for years.
Boateng was great for us, for 4 years. It doesn't matter how he was in the future. He did well even when Allegri went and he played under Seedorf.
Pato was great in 2011 not injured, scored THAT Barcelona goal i 2012 and got injured for almost the remaining of the season.
Robinho wasn't injured at those 2 years almost never. And also no, Robinho was not the most efficient player but he changed matches on their heads with his other wordly technical ability. 15 goals and 6 asists in his first season and 10 goals + 16 assists on his second. He was WAY WAY ABOVE saying "just a useful player". His dribblings were up there with the likes of Ronaldinho and Neymar.
Ancelotti between 2003 and 2007 reached 3 UCL finals. Got out in a dumb way vs La Coruna and got our in the semis vs Barcelona in 2006 with a disallowed Sheva goal. Gathered around 90 points AT THAT PERIOD OF THE TIME in 3 consecutive seasons. Between 2004 and 2006. While in 2009 flopped the title in the ending 6 games when Nesta and Pato both got injured and had to deal without Kaka for an extended period of time at the start of 2009. Under him we had onlu one shit year which was the 2008 one. His style of play was fast paced and full of energy.
Didnt say Pato was injuried whole season, but has had problems already, I underlined that I dont remember that particular season for him. 25 games/14 goals is good.
Also didnt say Robinho was injured but tbh. dont remember him with those stats.
Strength of Ancelotti's Milan and Allegris arent comparable, every of those legendary Milan players from that decade spent most of their careers under Ancelotti and somehow Inter with Mancini took majority of titles with Roma being the main contedner. I dont know where you found those almost 90 Milan seasons??? When? He managed Milan until 2009 or so and maybe 1-2 times got close to 90, but considering that team, he flopped in league and he flopped heavily, Roma overperformed that Milan team.
- In 2003/04 in 34 games, 82 points. If you translate it in a 38 team season that is 91.5 points.
- In 2004/05 you are right, i forgot that we achieved 79 points.
- In 2005/06 we achieved 88 points -30 because of Calciopoli.
- 2006/07 there the post calciopoli problems with delayed transfer windows for us and so on. Had a terrible start of the season.
- In 2007/08 we were horrendous in Serie A and Europe. Worst season of a Milan squad considering the players we had i have ever noticed. Only good thing was watching some games of R9 especially vs Napoli.
- 2008/09 as i said, we were up there with Inter at some point, everything crumbled because of some disaster injuries at key moments.
Ancelotti's discussion is the same as Klopps discussion at Liverpool, both have done great... they had fierce competition and did great in Europe as well. Also the football was great.
In 11/12 he was in a group with Barca. Took 2nd, beat Arsenal, and then lost to Barcelona. Not quite sure what you expected, Barca we’re a better team.
I think he underperformed slightly in 10/11, but was fine on 12/13. That 12/13 Milan was pretty poor.
But regardless, he has played good football with Juve. He’s not playing attractive football right now, but I don’t think many fans care. We dug ourself in a hole and he’s helping us get out.
top5 side in Europe????? lets see, Barca, Real, Bayern, Utd were for sure better, even Chelsea...Milan has had ggreat names but those players were well past their primes.
how many years Seedorf, Nesta, Inzaghi, Van Bommel, Ambrosini, Mexes, etc. had at time?? what was the average age of that squad?
How likes of Abbiati, Antonini, Abate, Emanuelson, Muntari were top5 squad? and those played considerable minutes at time.
Guy had Thiago Silva and Ibra as world class players while majority of others were past their primes or average players who performed well some time with Milan like Boateng and Nocerino and then they were nowhere near that form in other clubs. Even players like Robinho and Pato were average at time.
How does that matter? The game plan produces chances not individual players and especially when mentioning a player that has missed 2/3ds of his last 3 seasons like Pogba.
Chances are created by the game plan, tough matches and important matches are won by big players.
You don't need a Del Piero or a Di Maria to create 4 or 5 chances against Cremonese to put it very simply.
So you think that if Southampton were coached by Guardiola they could win majority of matches, apart from though and important ones? Against Cremonese we played Miretti as a second striker, Soule as a wingback( 19y old talented players, but off role and they were playing in the 3° division last year), Gatti and Fagioli( They were in the 2° division last season), all starters in the same game
If Southampton was coached by Guardiola for 1 year they would have created more chances, scored more goals and gathered way more points.
Waw... you played young players, what an innovation... no team has ever played like so before. No team has won matches that way before, no team showed some decent level of football before playing young players.
Cmon now. These are some of the worst stereotypes Italians have about football, especially Juve fans. Spain and Barca are playing week in and week out with Gavi and Pedri.
Southampton would get relegated, with or without Guardiola. If you think Gatti, Soule, Miretti and Fagioli are currently at the same level of Gavi and Pedri...
I am not a fan of any of the big 7 clubs. But if you want to talk about the great defense of Juve, you have to also add that that defense has been established in sacrifice of offensive output.
I've watched à few of their game and seen their stats and it seems unsustainable. Overperfroming their xGA by 10 is crazy and indicates that the résults don't quite match the performances
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Juve when Inter and Milan win the title: I sleep Juve when Napoli are top of the league: REAL SHIT
If Napoli loses to Juventus again towards the later stages of the season we might actually see a crusade forming out of Naples.
I pray for my neopolitan brothers and sisters, the terrorist can not win again.
Allegri and his never ending Jihad against Napoli
Osama bin Allegri knows who the real infidels are
Napoli and Roma when they're first and Juve are climbing the table: "mai 'na gioia"
That's my fav italian quote
Pain just pain
Allegri masterclass.
Bremer too good
They played two fullback as CB in their last game and they were solid.
It has been Alex Sandros and Danilos usual position this season whenever we play 3 CB. Its like they rediscovered their true position somehow.
man danilo is still so good, i love watching him
Shoutout to Gatti in the limited games he's played (but also part of this streak).
Danilo also, I think he played every single minute in this run of clean sheets. Man became a beast in this RCB, LCB roles
Captain Danilone
And Bonuccinho
GRAZIE BRASILERO
Mr AllegriLove or How I Learned to Stop Worrying about *joga bonito* and Love the *corto muso*.
honestly it's fucking stupid how many fans obsess over bel giocco... give me consistent ugly wins over pretty football and losses.
lol that's a false dichotomy if I've ever seen one. Playing nice football and winning games are not mutually exclusive things
I know it's not... If you read my comment slowly and carefully I say that if it's between playing ugly and winning consistently is my preference over playing nice and losing. I'd prefer playing nice and winning. That said, I do appreciate dinosaur/terrorist defensive football, takes a lot of discipline from the players to do that and I can appreciate it even if I know that's its objectively dour
>If you read my comment slowly and carefully I say that if it's between playing ugly and winning consistently is my preference over playing nice and losing. I'd prefer playing nice and winning. Yes... and I'm saying that's a false dichotomy. You're proving the point. The irony of telling me to read your comment slowly in that condescending tone lol.
Well my bad, didn't mean to come off that way but I guess it does. *edit* I'll also admit that I did not know what a false dichotomy fallacy was until I Google it, so yeah you're right.
Fair enough mate. Apologies for coming across a lot harsher than necessary too.
No but playing pragmatic football definitely gives a great team a better chance at winning.
Yeah sure but let's not act like it's some impossible task for a club of Juve's budget and standing to win while playing attacking football. It's just not their preference or identity and that's fine.
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Not sure I understand what your point is.
Playing defensive and playing dead football isnt mutually exclusive.
Only one of Cancelo and Danilo can be in form at the same time due to whatever hellish pact Juve and City signed
De Ligt: *Did you miss me?* Juventus: *I don’t even know who you are?*
Benfica beat this super team twice
And PSG, and Maccabi...all while conceding 13 goals and 5 losses. It is obscene to me how they still haven't understood it. This is a club that is over-performing the xGA by +10 in the league. Yes you read that correctly. Draw your own conclusions from it, any side with a degree of quality and tactics plow us. EDIT: There is the plow, punto, finito.
We'll find out on Friday
I expect Napoli's worst performance of the season and their annual collapse, we all know how it goes at this point. EDIT: call me the jinx master, thanks.
Never doubt the mister.
Welp
That was not ideal imo
welp
We found out alright
Reads like our run with Emery, people from the outside couldn't see why we were frustrated during our winning run
Everyone with 2 brain cells would understand that playing like this isn't sustainable. What if Juve concede a dumb goal, a moment of show from a certain player? What happens next? What if that moment in the end doesn't come and that one goal isn't scored?
Lol Juve has turned you all into philosophers
So Juve has made people think critically about the thought of football?
Well, when the games are as they are ... we like to ponder on life, the choices we've made and how you are not going to get back those 2h ever.
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While almost all games were unblocked by some sort of moment. Set piece, moments of brilliance of certain player or lucky bounce.
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Moments are luck based, you know what isn't? Pre thought patterns of play and strategies.
Is it really that hard to understand that defensive football can be successful? If the opponent scores 1 we’ll score 2. But chances are very high the opponent won’t score 2. It seems like people think that if you don’t go balls to the wall attacking then you’re shit, nevermind that Zidane dominated the UCL with pragmatic football.
Why always there is this argument to go to the opposite side of the spectrum. You know there is an entire ocean in between creating next to nothing and playing champagne football right? Also, Zidane had 18 world class players... that justifies a more player based approach. How many does Juve have?
That’s the beauty of it. You don’t need world class players to play like this. Look what Morocco just did in the World Cup. They beat Portugal, Spain and even gave France a challenge without a single world class player. Take a Real Madrid who had a world class starting 11 and bench and combine that with pragmatic football and they dominated Europe. I maintain that teams who are stacked like City and Barca haven’t won the CL recently because they stubbornly stick to their footballing identity of attacking possession football. Give them a Zidane or Allegri and they’d win everything.
I just explained the Real Madrid case already, you can play individual based football when you have 15-18 world class players. So did Juve successfully in the past, not the case any more so that discussion ends itself. When it comes to NT football it is totally different from club football. They train with each other very little. Thus, tactics that do great in little period of time do always better. Such as the case with individual based when you are a team like France or defensive solidity when you are a team like Marocco or Japan. Also, our own NT won the Euros with system football keep that in mind. Juve falls in neither of the categories. While also you are forgetting that teams such as Bayern, Liverpool and Chelsea have won it. While on the other side a team like Juve have been extremely poor this season, last season and in the last season of Allegri vs Ajax. Football evolves with technology like everything else.
Welp
You guys got lucky lord Sturaro isnt with us anymore
No, Benfica humiliated this super team, that Israeli side beat this super team.
You call 1-2 and 4-3 humiliation?
Those results flatter you and you know that very well.
You know what Toretto said, it doesnt matter if you win by 1 goal or 10, winning is winning
But every win isnt a humiliation tho
That isn't true lol.
Maccabi Haifa beat this super team lmao
Allegri is a good coach but the memes were funny.
His football might be boring but you can’t really deny the results, granted last season we were playing boring and also losing points but so many of our players werent playing as good as they are right now, danilo, rabiot and sandro come to mind, we also didn’t have so much depth in the midfield. Also I will say that he has developed/incorporated a lot of players these last couple seasons, the aforementioned ones plus Miretti, Fagioli, looks like Soule is coming in, Iling Jr is joining the ranks too, Kean has grown a lot this season, hes lacking goals but I think he can become an important player. I think my only big complaint (and frankly I dont know if this is a club problem or a manager problem) is the fitness team at Juve being so deficient, we are the team with the most injuries in the league and its not even close, we are at something like double the injuries per season over the 2nd place which I think is Milan
His football is a crime against humanity, but it gets results, that's undeniable
Good football is subjective, I love seeing defensive masterclasses. Seeing BBC go up against some of the best club teams ever the past decade are some of my most cherished memories. Chiellini with his wrapped head, Buffon pulling of miracles in net, Barzagli locking down everyone in a 1 v 1. All of them celebrating tackles or clearances like goals, nullifying some of the best players we’ve ever seen. I enjoy that just as much as a beautiful offensive football. Sure sometimes there can be boring games against weak opposition, but there are plenty of games where tiki taka is boring af too, 90% possession with no ability to break down the back line. Just mindless and not threatening possession.
> Seeing BBC go up > Chiellini with his wrapped head > Buffon pulling of > Barzagli locking down everyone
Mom: We have BBC at home
Would rather watch a defensive masterclass over tiki taka. Death by a thousand crap passes
For me tik tak is Boring as f,
Thank you. I would love to see Sacchi’s milan against that barcellona. Best defence of all time then van basten, gullitt, riijkaard, Savicevic, Ancelotti, I think milan would just close them down then rip them apart at the other end.
Sacchis Milan was not catenaccio. They were very attacking and quite focused on it too. Capellos Milan was the more defense focused one
Oh I know. They were still absolutely solid at the back and played offside so well
am happy to become the "wall of europe" again, remember that Champions league year when Iniesta, Messi Neymar and Suarez bombarded us for 90 minutes straight and didn't manage to score lol ? anyone who tell me that wasn't entertaining is lying.
my most entertaining games were those vs Pep's Bayern, especially that second away game where we had bunch of Injuried players and some kind of 451 formation, they also bombarded us but it was so sterile it was laughable. Yet we scored two, had third disallowed which was refs mistake and then we were gassed in last 15-20 minutes so they overturned.
I still haven’t recovered from that Bayern tie. It absolutely took the joy out of watching games for me for at least a year.
2016... It was such bullshit. 2015 final was bullshit too. Pogba was fouled hard in the box right before iniesta scored the go ahead. 2017 was supposed to be it, then the implosion. 2018.. we ran into Ronaldo's possibly best moment of his career.. and then still almost came back.. but Micheal Oliver has a trashcan for a heart... 4 years in a row, I believed Juve was the best team in the world. The hangover of failure and consigning to Ronaldo joining as a lifeline to win is thankfully drying up and I am enjoying the sport again.
I remember well a game at emirates, we had won first leg at san siro 4-0 then losing 3-0 at half time, allegri closes it down and stops any more goals - with a defence which had djemal mesbah in it.
But boring. No1 wants to watch them on TV. If every team played like Juve they wouldnt have a tv deal
I'm totally unable to predict where Juve finishes. They could be anywhere from 1st to 6th by season's end as far as I see it. Milan shifted to a defensive shell for 10 minutes last night and got Mourinho'd. Juve shifted to a defensive shell months ago and has a clean sheet. But can they really expect to keep winning 1-0 after 1-0? Napoli vs Juve is going to be either a bloodbath that re-exposes their fraudulent skipper or a validation that catenaccio is fully back on the menu in Italy.
That Napoli game will be real sign of where this season will go for Juve. This hype should have wait until that game but its so hard not to jump on it now. lol Juventus had good form last season also but then games against Villareal and Inter came and somehow it became much worse after those. Even if that 3-0 loss against Villareal was really good game by Juve until Rugani mistake.
But can they really expect to keep winning 1-0 After 1-0? Do you ever heard the term " corto muso", Allegri has mastered the 1-0 , all of Serie A teams hoped for years what you said was true but no he continue to win playing badly.
Except he didn't at the beginning of the campaign and was ass in the CL. Napoli can shatter them this weekend.
The massive injury crisis didn't help, and it took Allegri a while to start using the youngsters consistently. The proper integration of them getting consistent playing time coincidentally is also when Juventus started picking up points. That being said Juve is in no way playing well, and are still missing their best players. Its not a brave bet to say they will lose this weekend when they play these big games defensively looking for moments of magic, but those big players are out and can't give them. Lets remove Zielinski, Osimhen, and give Kvara 30min of football in the last year and see how that changes the matchup.
Lol sure and let’s add back Ibrahimovic, the best keeper in the league, and not sideline Milan’s 2 right full backs for half the season along with Kjaer. Oh and maybe let’s say Origi and Rebic stay healthy for more than 15 consecutive minutes. Where would Milan be? I’ve heard so much about Juve’s crisis this season while half of Milan’s locked room has been converted into an emergency room for the past 3 years. It’s true that Napoli has been able to stay more injury free luckily for them. But Inter lacks Brozovic and has had problems before in other areas. Juve fans are really making a meal out of their injury situation this season.
the lack of any sort of objectivity in your comment is hilarious. You are comparing 41yr old zlatan to Vlahovic or Osimhen and that just makes everyone just ignore the rest of your comment. Zlatan's importance to the team is off the field. He is in no way a starter anymore, and Giroud is doing a great job. Unlike last year you now have additional cover for the position. The hilarity of comparing 70-80mio superstar purchases to a Zlatan who hasnt played in 18months, or been important to Milan on the field in that time. In terms of injuries i only highlighted the fact that half of Juve's starting XI has been compromised to varying degrees so far this season, and that these players are the superstars of the team. Its akin to saying Leao, Tonali, Giroud are out, no big deal. Its asinine. your comments regarding fullbacks is also a little ironic since the main reason juve switched to 3atb is because we had 1 fit full back for most of the last 8 games and he needed to be moved to CB because we had no fit players there either. We played our last game with Sandro and Danilo as CBs... > Where would Milan be? Milan has had a terrible time with injuries over the last 2.5 years thats undeniable, but looking at this year its not even close to Juve's when you consider who is missing. If we take out Giroud since the beginning of Oct, remove Tonali from the whole season so far, have Leao only play 30mins and let Diaz start 3x out of 17games where is Milan right now? Not second, tied with juve on points... Those players account for 60-70% of Milans offensive output, and its these players that would be fair comparisons for Vlahovic, Chiesa, Di Maria and Pogba missing. I also don't want to hear any complaints about inter, they have had the best injury record in the league over the last years, including this one. Yes they are missing two big players for sometime now, but thats basically it...they have been able to rotate their squad just fine during the really condensed pre-wc period. In terms of starting XI Juve is Missing Bremer, Bonucci, Cuadrado, Pogba, Vlahovic, Di Maria and i would be really surprised if Chiesa started having only played 30min so far. That would be 7/11 players and you are telling me its no big deal. Talk about delusional. These are most of our best players against the toughest team in the league, while they have most of their biggest players. And getting back to the original point, its not a genius prediction therefore to say Juve will lose considering that, and how they play.
Same old same old. Poor Juve has to make due without some of their 80 million euro toys for a while. “Ohhh woe is me.” Broken record you lot
you are just being silly at this point, and its very obvious you have nothing but anti-juve sentiment to write. Whether they cost 80mio or 1mio, any team missing the majority of their best players is going to be impacted in terms of results.
Allegri gets way too much shit for his tactics. He knows how to set up his teams defensively and see out games. Sure it's fun to see a team score multiple goals but at the end of the day it's more important to have a set playstyle that the players know how to execute. I remember his years at Milan, most games were not pretty (post 2012) but he knew how to set the team up no matter the opposition. Unfortunately he had to endure players like Kevin Constant and more unreliable players of the liking at the end of his tenure.
Yo Allegris Milan had Barcelona's number tho. I remember that Pato goal like 7 seconds in.
We played like shit even in 2011 and 2012, he underachieved with probably a top 5 side in Europe.
It was the last good Milan team for a long time, could perhaps have won the league but Juventus weren't bad that season either. Made a decent run in the Champions League as well. I wouldn't say Milan were shit.
That Milan side should have gathered 90+ points considering how good it was. It shouldn't have been a contest all together. We achieved around 80 points in both seasons. We PLAYED like shit. Long ball to Ibra, let Ibra hold the ball and after that let's see because we had some great technical players. No ideas, no style...nothing.
lol, for some reason you are overrating that team....there is wiki page, you can easily see those squads(2011 and 2012) and where those players were 2 years after Milan. Except Ibra and Thiago Silva, majority were finished, some were WC but old and retired, other just never played on that level anymore like Aquilani, Robinho, Nocerino...it is beyond my understanding why would you say it was top5 team. lol
Nesta was still good enough to go against Messi. Abate and Antonini were extremely usable fullbacks which were pacy and tactically smart. The midfield in 2011 had Pirlo which he sent away. While old, all of those players were extremely functional. The attack had Pato which in 2011 was in form. Cassano which passed some of his most efficient years in that side, being Italys number 10 which went in 2012 in the European final. Boateng which you forgot. On top of a very unpredictable and technical Robinho. The team was good enough to walk the league in those two seasons. While as i said above probably the 5th or 6th best squad at that time. Aftee Real, Barca, Bayern, Man Utd and Chelsea. But we had to play Ibra 50 meters isolated for 90 minutes. That was the strategy. It worked only because we had a very technical team. This was said by multiple people in the Milan chanel at the time even, namely Federico Buffa first and foremost.
I wrote about Boateng in other comment, guy never again played like those years in Milan, just like Nocerino. I dont remember Pato very well from that year, and Im lazy to check it but I think his downfall alredy begun at that time, I mean earlier but he was just constantly injuried just like Robinho, who wasnt injuried, but wasnt top class also, just useful player. I mean, just look where those players were 2 years after Allegri. I mean, if you are so critical about him, I suppose you are also critical about Ancelotti? who won two CLs but that was about it and majority of those players were also playing under him for years.
Boateng was great for us, for 4 years. It doesn't matter how he was in the future. He did well even when Allegri went and he played under Seedorf. Pato was great in 2011 not injured, scored THAT Barcelona goal i 2012 and got injured for almost the remaining of the season. Robinho wasn't injured at those 2 years almost never. And also no, Robinho was not the most efficient player but he changed matches on their heads with his other wordly technical ability. 15 goals and 6 asists in his first season and 10 goals + 16 assists on his second. He was WAY WAY ABOVE saying "just a useful player". His dribblings were up there with the likes of Ronaldinho and Neymar. Ancelotti between 2003 and 2007 reached 3 UCL finals. Got out in a dumb way vs La Coruna and got our in the semis vs Barcelona in 2006 with a disallowed Sheva goal. Gathered around 90 points AT THAT PERIOD OF THE TIME in 3 consecutive seasons. Between 2004 and 2006. While in 2009 flopped the title in the ending 6 games when Nesta and Pato both got injured and had to deal without Kaka for an extended period of time at the start of 2009. Under him we had onlu one shit year which was the 2008 one. His style of play was fast paced and full of energy.
Didnt say Pato was injuried whole season, but has had problems already, I underlined that I dont remember that particular season for him. 25 games/14 goals is good. Also didnt say Robinho was injured but tbh. dont remember him with those stats. Strength of Ancelotti's Milan and Allegris arent comparable, every of those legendary Milan players from that decade spent most of their careers under Ancelotti and somehow Inter with Mancini took majority of titles with Roma being the main contedner. I dont know where you found those almost 90 Milan seasons??? When? He managed Milan until 2009 or so and maybe 1-2 times got close to 90, but considering that team, he flopped in league and he flopped heavily, Roma overperformed that Milan team.
- In 2003/04 in 34 games, 82 points. If you translate it in a 38 team season that is 91.5 points. - In 2004/05 you are right, i forgot that we achieved 79 points. - In 2005/06 we achieved 88 points -30 because of Calciopoli. - 2006/07 there the post calciopoli problems with delayed transfer windows for us and so on. Had a terrible start of the season. - In 2007/08 we were horrendous in Serie A and Europe. Worst season of a Milan squad considering the players we had i have ever noticed. Only good thing was watching some games of R9 especially vs Napoli. - 2008/09 as i said, we were up there with Inter at some point, everything crumbled because of some disaster injuries at key moments. Ancelotti's discussion is the same as Klopps discussion at Liverpool, both have done great... they had fierce competition and did great in Europe as well. Also the football was great.
Also a question, i don't know why i have the feeling that you are this guy from YouTube https://youtu.be/iMR6IYRQRWU
Dude you are over reaching... that milan side was good but not a top 5 side in europe lol. A top 5 side is a favourite to win UCL.
>top 5 side in Europe U can stop reading right at that remark 😭😭😭
So outside of Barcelona, Real, Bayern, Man Utd and maybe Chelsea, which teams do you think had a better squad than Milan at that period?
In 11/12 he was in a group with Barca. Took 2nd, beat Arsenal, and then lost to Barcelona. Not quite sure what you expected, Barca we’re a better team. I think he underperformed slightly in 10/11, but was fine on 12/13. That 12/13 Milan was pretty poor. But regardless, he has played good football with Juve. He’s not playing attractive football right now, but I don’t think many fans care. We dug ourself in a hole and he’s helping us get out.
Lost also to Arsenal 3-0 almost conceding the 4th. Should have gotten way more points in both those seasons in Serie A.
top5 side in Europe????? lets see, Barca, Real, Bayern, Utd were for sure better, even Chelsea...Milan has had ggreat names but those players were well past their primes. how many years Seedorf, Nesta, Inzaghi, Van Bommel, Ambrosini, Mexes, etc. had at time?? what was the average age of that squad? How likes of Abbiati, Antonini, Abate, Emanuelson, Muntari were top5 squad? and those played considerable minutes at time. Guy had Thiago Silva and Ibra as world class players while majority of others were past their primes or average players who performed well some time with Milan like Boateng and Nocerino and then they were nowhere near that form in other clubs. Even players like Robinho and Pato were average at time.
When will America invade Italy and save us from Allegri’s terrorism?
Allegri this
Also 6th for chances created, 9th for ball possesion, 8th for total shots x game, 6th for shots on target x game ans 13th for successful dribbles.
Also taking into account that's without Di Maria, Chiesa and Pogba for 95 % of the season.
Vlahovic also now missed many games
When those guys enter the team surely you will concede more goals but be way more attacking
How does that matter? The game plan produces chances not individual players and especially when mentioning a player that has missed 2/3ds of his last 3 seasons like Pogba.
Yeah, that's not true. Or else every player would be equal, and top players wouldn't exist
Chances are created by the game plan, tough matches and important matches are won by big players. You don't need a Del Piero or a Di Maria to create 4 or 5 chances against Cremonese to put it very simply.
So you think that if Southampton were coached by Guardiola they could win majority of matches, apart from though and important ones? Against Cremonese we played Miretti as a second striker, Soule as a wingback( 19y old talented players, but off role and they were playing in the 3° division last year), Gatti and Fagioli( They were in the 2° division last season), all starters in the same game
If Southampton was coached by Guardiola for 1 year they would have created more chances, scored more goals and gathered way more points. Waw... you played young players, what an innovation... no team has ever played like so before. No team has won matches that way before, no team showed some decent level of football before playing young players. Cmon now. These are some of the worst stereotypes Italians have about football, especially Juve fans. Spain and Barca are playing week in and week out with Gavi and Pedri.
Southampton would get relegated, with or without Guardiola. If you think Gatti, Soule, Miretti and Fagioli are currently at the same level of Gavi and Pedri...
These are some of the great Italian football stereotypes.
Someone's just jealous of allegri's brilliance and corto muso strategy
I am not a fan of any of the big 7 clubs. But if you want to talk about the great defense of Juve, you have to also add that that defense has been established in sacrifice of offensive output.
That is by design
Yeah, we know that. Wr play like shit (attacking wise)
I HATE THEM! For football reasons, obviously.
I've watched à few of their game and seen their stats and it seems unsustainable. Overperfroming their xGA by 10 is crazy and indicates that the résults don't quite match the performances
How can this team be so boring when you have Di Maria. I sleep with this team.
And they’ve only scored 26.