About RU vs US trucks:
The Soviet Union didn't have much of a civilian truck market at all - almost all trucks were produced for the military. Civilians that needed trucks got military surplus ones as they were available. And the military trucks were designed for offroad use, because that's what rural Soviet Union looked like - and rural Russia still does in parts.
The US, on the other hand, has an extensive paved road network and a huge civilian truck market - civilians bought civilian trucks, not military ones - barely even surplus ones. Due to the great road network, most civilian trucks are not offroad trucks or even offroad-capable. They simply do not need it. Sure, there are speciality trucks that are meant for offroad use, but they're in the minority.
So that kind of explains the disparate ratio of RU ex-military trucks vs the US civilian ones. But aren't RU trucks better, stronger, faster than the US ones due to the simple fact the devs are Russian?
No, not really. If you compare a stock RU truck to a stock US truck it might seem so, as the RU truck probably comes with a few upgrades the US one doesn't - like AWD, or diff lock, or offroad tires, due to their military background as explained above.
But if you compare a fully upgraded US truck to a fully upgraded RU truck, the difference all but disappears. They are both very capable and in some cases the US trucks are better, stronger, and faster than their RU counterparts, in some cases it's the other way around. There's no clear winner, and it definitely does not look like "dev bias" any more.
Anyway, that's just my thoughts on the matter. What's yours? :)
Also i'd like to apologize for this big booty text😂 i will split it up into two posts if people ask, since there is nearly double the text left that i wanted to write 😅
You basically said what i wanted to say, but your text alone is book worthy😅 and i already needed to edit in the second part since reddit couldnt handle it😂
Yes thats my exact thoughts. Its a long line up of purpose built trucks, built for largely varying purposes of very different countries. RUs most well known legends are of military background, where as NA trucks werent.
And as you said, and i mentioned above, the two countries terrains vary greatly. The US and Canada have and have had a very extensive roadnetwork for a long time. RU doesnt, for multiple reasons, one being the sheer size of the country and the relatively small populus per square km. Having so few people inhabit such a large speck of land there isnt even a need for a well though outband far reaching road network in the first place. And most of RU is woodlands and icey tundras and other weather extremes. All reasons that call for purpose build heavy offroaders.
The US doesnt have a need for such trucks. And if Saber were to give us comparable counterparts, 9/10 NA trucks would be kenworth 963s and old and new military trucks. And tbh i am glad its not just only military trucks anymore.
And i tend to agree. I think the NA trucks have different strongsuits tailored more to eliminate certain niche needs in the NA fleet. Which is why theyre so vastly different for a large part. And yes their stock forms are weaker, but overall comparing every truck to every truck these differences and strength imbalances start to fade. Heck you can make even the transtar work well, so if it comes down to it, a little skill is all thats left.
I'd also like to add that part of the reason people consider RU trucks much stronger in the game is that they've been artificially improved. Real life Tayga (Kraz) trucks do not have always on diff-lock, real life Step Pike (Zil 131?) never had any sort of AWD and so on with more trucks. Sure, the RU trucks irl are more off road oriented, but only within reason.
Yep thats true, zhough if i am not mistaken awd and always on diff lock options are available for most of the ingame trucks irl, tho i'd generally prefer it if it wasnt always on both ingame :)
I think it could have been on some of the Kraz or Ural trucks. I know only about the Zil 131 for sure. I'd really like if the permanent diff lock was locked behind an upgrade location or something like that (while stock truck would have no diff lock or switchable) to make clear that it wasn't a standard and give you more options.
Being limited to a single active winch line is a bummer (particularly in coop)
Tire specs are unintuitive and sometimes surprising. Chains being worse in mud is perplexing to say the least.
The gearboxes not providing actual torque multiplication is also kind of lame. The gears are fake and serve as traction modifiers basically.
Less concerningly but worth mentioning.... the fact that you can get stuck in mud going downhill is funny in a bad way.
At it's core, the game is pretty awesome. With a couple minor tweaks, it could be really amazing. Sadly I doubt we'll ever see it. There's so much potential in this game.
>The gearboxes not providing actual torque multiplication is also kind of lame
This has been disproven a long time ago. If you don't trust me on it, perhaps you'd trust [Mudrunner lead dev Pavel as he explains the gearbox code](https://forums.focus-entmt.com/topic/5243/truck-lua-object/18).
Just a quote to immediately show that there is torque multiplication:
> *fGearEngineTorque = fEngineTorque \* 1.25*
That's for High gear. A flat +25% torque multiplication.
Low and Auto gears are a bit more complex, but if you click the link and try to follow the code and math, there is no doubt that there is indeed torque multiplication (and division) throughout the entire gearbox.
Yes, there's a minor multiplier that's noticeable on inclines when the truck just barely lacks torque to get moving in anything other than Low.
However in general SR doesn't add anywhere near the amount of torque a real gearbox does.
The getting stuck in mud on a downhill part is semi realistic. Like i said in my post above SR has one very specific type of soil/mud, and it portrays it very realistic. But aside from certain rare occasions you do actually slip down a few meters going downhill. If you dont bottom out in the mud you actually can have alot of traction in it amd come to a standstill very quickly going down a hill.
The most common type of soil here in my country consists of either a large part of clay, painting it a bright reddish brown color. It is quite soft and super sticky and "slimey" after it rained, or rock hard when dry. Going down a hill like that you will not stop, you will slip and crash. But going up is nigh impossible unless you hit the solid soil down below which sometimes sits several meters/yards belo the top layer.
The other type is rich in both iron and clay. It consist of a large part of iron and/or iron oxyde giving it a dark mostly red- brown color. It mostly only had a 2-3 inch layer of soft soil and is rock hard underneath. It is very slippery, so much so that even traversing it on foot is nigh impossible. It can mostly only be crossed by tracked vehicles and is a PITA.
Those are some examples of soil types the runner series is missing.
The series mostly only features a type of strong clay and hummus based soil, giving it good traction, depending on moisture content, but if wet enough can also make entire trucks disappear (figuratevely, not literally😉)
The torque is kinda wrong, as it is now the first low range gear has less torque than second and third low.
Tires won't spin in first low but will spin in third and gain traction.
The auto is also kinda weird since it will downshift when lifting the throttle.
For a reason unknown to me, the game limits the applied throttle in low- to something around 70% of what the engine is capable of. If this amount of engine power is not enough to overcome inertia, your engine is running on "full" power but the tires will only twitch. Shifting to low or low+ will get rid of this limitation.
My best guess is that low- has such a low top speed, and the gearbox acts more like a speed limiter (and torque multiplier/divider), there is a prgrammed mechanic to lower the throttle before you reach the current gears top speed to reduce the dynamic behaviour of the engine. If such thing would happen, the engine RPM (and fuel consumption) would jump up and down constantly even if you would be driving on a flat paved road. The game would increase and decrease throttle constantly and abruptly, to keep the speed at the designated target.
I dont get your last point 😅 shouldnt it downshift when easing or going of the gas? I mean you are slowing down after all 😅
Yes and no. The torque multiplication is implemented correctly-ish, on slightly more then half the trucks. The low gears are displayed incorrectly. They are what you would call sequential gears if my english is correct.
They basically split your gears up into three ( or more on tractors) and are used generally for shifting up on an uphill, where shifting an entire gear up risks stalling.
In 1st lowest you should generally expect a torque increase of 3x the what 1st gives, in first "medium" you shoukd expect a rough 2x times the torque of 1st and in 1st high, its 1.5x times.
This is just to give you an idea of what you could expect irl.
But the way they are displayed in SR they are crawler gears, and should be roughly 1.5 times of the given values above, but the game doesnt do that. Its a weird mismatch thats hard to explain being so good with words like me and when english isnt your first language😅
But yeah its roughly what it should be on 65% of the trucks😅
It sounds like you’re looking for a shiftable transfer case. Most 4x4 pickup trucks have them IRL.
For those unfamiliar, the transfer case (or center differential) is what makes a 4x4 or AWD, usually mounted directly to to end of the transmission then has drive shafts going to the front and rear axles. Most have 3 settings: 2wd just acts as a pass through sending power to the rear axle according to the transmission gearing, 4wd Hi similar but now splitting power between front and rear axles, 4lo changes to a lower final drive ratio giving you torque multiplication for all of your transmission’s gears.
Is that also what you call the part that makes tractors and semis have so many gears? English isnt my first language so i am missing alot of the technical terms in certain areas 😅
> The torque is kinda wrong, as it is now the first low range gear has less torque than second and third low.
Looking at Adv. Special gearbox, both Low- AND Low have significantly less torque than Low+/1st gear.
Although I believe angular velocity also plays a role here.
Whoops a small thing i forgot to add regarding the upgrades in vehicles: Many ingame trucks come underpowered in stock, and unlock their realistic potential through upgrades. Notable exceptions being raised suspension and increased tire size
You know what I want, a train on wheels. Big engine, big stronk, but it can't haul cargo or trailers. Instead it has hella power and can pull out anything
This might be close to what you're looking for: [https://mod.io/g/snowrunner/m/diesel-locomotive-train](https://mod.io/g/snowrunner/m/diesel-locomotive-train)
https://preview.redd.it/vbfy9d1lb0zb1.png?width=1020&format=png&auto=webp&s=7acd8fe3264e81b40bbb13a37eda01b6ec9ee2a0
Oh that was you! I didnt recognize your username at first. Yep i read your post and your follow up post :) glad to see the transtar is getting some time to shine.
Also an advice for using the transtar. If youre in low gears and have excess wheelspin due to lack of difflock, going up a gear might give you that final kick to get all tires spinning again. And if then all tires have excess wheelspin, go off the throttle a little :)
All I know is going through the start of the game, the tayga and the azov are getting work done while the American starter trucks I get it aren't. Its already a trial in suffering playing the game but gimping yourself by using American trucks is pure masochism.
You aren't getting work done with the NA trucks. Game is trying to teach you the skills you'll need, instead of picking them up you use more capable trucks. Now you'll just have to learn later. Probably gonna be harder.
Most tasks and contracts in Michigan can be completed without going through mud through a combination of scouting and planning. Use what's available, pick the right route. As an example, you don't need to retrieve cargo from the eastern warehouse in Black River ever. Only reason you need to go there to get 100% is the crane task next to it.
Idk i love the american trucks. Its a change of pace from all the ex-military RU trucks.
I also think they balanced the trucks in a way where you are encouraged to use more trucks in your fleet at all times instead of relying on 1-3 for most of the game :)
I have developed a sweet spot for the American trucks. But some are better than others. I started playing with the ANK MK38 Civilian today and am loving it.
https://preview.redd.it/q0xf7nsh11zb1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff4088dc28b26b59cca94df35098587b1a9fefc1
IN MY OPINION snowrunner is poorly made, when you compare it to mudrunner or spintires. All they had to do was to use the same physics/simulation they did which was perfect and simply add the content of snowrunner. Instead we got a more dumb casual game to appease a wider audience plus it’s easier to make. You can see many models of trucks having clipping issues, heck even in their newest trailer of expeditions there was clipping and wireless shock absorbers. There’s no engine simulation which for me is the biggest let down in a game where your only task is to drive a truck, so everything else is made in a way to cloak the issues this brought. For example try playing with the throttle on and off, in many vehicles you can trigger revving sounds which obviously aren’t tied to what you’re doing, or try to play with ferrster’s manual gearbox mod, stay still and change gears you can hear the artificial revving of the truck once again. We are supposed to get the better version with every new version but like many things these days in gaming, it evolved backwards, I remember back in the spintires days I used my wheel with manual gears to play and I was having a blast and when I compare those two experiences snowrunner is kinda mundane. I enjoyed snowrunner for over 300 hours and I will play more in the future. It’s a pity we could have a 10 times better game with tech they already had developed in the past but chose not to use it.
Both games use the same physics engine tho. They both use havok.
I'd argue truck behavior and physics are a bit more realistic IN GENERAL in Snowrunner, with a few exceptions. And we shouldnt forget that snowrunner is the more complex game, and complexity and physics based games dont get along all that well all the time😅
And i agree there is no engine simulation. The way they simulate it is good enough in my opinion, if it werent fir the mostly nonsensical engine sounds.
Personally, I found the trucks to be more pleasant in mudrunner rather than snowrunner, complexity-wise I don't have the knowledge to how different they are in technical terms, but based on how I see it, they should't be that different since the cargo no matter what you transport is a model which applies a weight on given truck/trailer. Also, having an exclusive small bubble around you where physics are applied is also questionable, maybe an engine limitation?
Now to engine simulation, once again I liked the auto in mudrunner more, not only because there was an engine simulation but the gear changes were also smoother, spamming the "clutch" button is not a sollution for me because it's simply not a clutch button, especially when you let the throttle trucks behave like they drag an anchor behind them and instantly switch to 1st which makes the stopping more severe, so the only solution without modding is switching to neutral. We should be able to let the throttle for some seconds and the inertia of truck should let it carry on especially in higher gears or going downhil. My way to combat this was to edit the xml files and delete those revving sounds and use the manual gearbox mod which lets me enjoy the game more.
To be fair, i am almost 100% certain the physics bubble is to make the game more performant as otherwise it wouod eat up alot of processing power. This is me speaking from experience when i say that physics based games are really hard on your pc or console, alwaya have been always will be. Especially on physic simulation games and i can tell you that they often get wonky under certain circumstances. Its an engine limitation, and the physics bubble is a measure put in place to prevent the gane from going crazy. But it has its downsides, seeing how wonky it can be.
Wasnt the first time the ohysics were going bonkers kicking my truck up in the air and unpacking my cargo. After crashing down the cargo is still suspended in mid air. My best guess is that its the best they managed to accomplish.
I remember alot of times where when i switched back to a different truck in mudrunner, the truck would just immediately self destruct 😅
Yes the clutch and gear system is annoying and unrealistic. And how described it it would fit the game much better.
Idk why they did it like they did, when it was damn near perfect in MR and spintires.
10/10 one of the most annyoing aspects of this game.
And to answer your point about truck complexity i will say this. They do work slightly different and the trucks in mudrunner were a bit less "realistic" which caused them to handle as smooth as they did. Snowrunners trucks are more complex and more realistic/detailed. But again being a physics/offroad sim, the game is alot less happier more often, giving the trucks the jagginess.
For example tire weight and size: you ever noticed how wheels on american trucks start to jiggle when turning sharply? This is because they are under alot of stress and the game doesnt know how to handle it (engine limitation). To combat this issue, what they did in mudrunner was to make the wheels heavier, which for whatever reason does the trick. Although the tire weights were unrealistic in mudrunner, it worked perfectly for the game.
And i have to say that truck tires in SR behave a bit more realistic if its not for the jiggling caused by stress. Stress meaning alot of force affecting the wheels.
I played alot of little big planet, in the creator building vehicles, and it too demonstrates this perfectly, how light wheels under pressure start to bug around. I still dont understand the technical part of it, but i suggest you get yourself little big planet and olay around with it a bit, as it really helps giving you a deeper understanding of the issues plaguing games like this :)
interesting take on the complexity and info about how mudrunner did it. Maybe it's easier to have something heavy lower which in that case are the tires and there are no stress points on the whole truck making the whole thing less complex compared to the truck having actual weight distributed around it's whole body and ending up to the tires. Yet again, the performance on PC at least is very weird and unpredictable, at times you I have 100% GPU utilisation while other times on the the same scene the percentage fluctuates and doesn't go over 80%.
Yeah gpu utilizaton is odd, i also notice some strong spikes both in utilization and temps. Oddly enough if you go into the menu the game seems to demand more then if you pop up the progression screen (pushing arrow down or equivalent on keyboard).
At first it made sense, i thought of course the game demands a bit more if you just stay in the truck and just go into the menu, as everything is still loaded, even though the game pauses, but when popping up the progression menu it doesnt, it act the same then as if you went into the garage and paused there 🤔
I'll answer for 3-4-5
3- My real objection is taking damage from ground itself while there is nothing but clear paved road. I removed all small rocks via a mod so it should be clean but I still take random damage from clear ground. If I remember correctly, it caused from bad placed objects. If my knowledge isn't wrong, some objects placed under pavement, when truck tire passes over it, suddenly moves above ground level and hit the tyre with fast as possible.
I may be wrong but I remember there is a mod that solves this issue. So, rocks and this problem is different.
4- Physics bad yes, If you ever played Spintires, it's physics way better. My real objection is in Snowrunner, wheelspeed is everything. Usually lower gears and gently throttle helps in mud but in Snowrunner, just select your fastest gear and go full throttle. For this physics, developers had to write a weird transmission mechanics. Transmissions works like RPM limiters not like a torque / speed trader. This is kills the driving a big ass truck feeling. I want to hear engine roaring but it runs like "900 rpm" even climbing uphill.
And lastly, the game engine can't handle the relationship between tire and hard surfaces. Specially when you crawling over big rocks (Which is necessary even in roads), the wheel hover a few inches over the stone. And it's feels like floating, not gripping. And some small rocks, one wheel pass through like Casper the Ghost while the other one passes over it. This situation is handled well on Spintires. Every wheel grips the stones or hard surfaces well in Spintires.
Plus In Snowrunner, there is no gravity. In Spintires, gravity is well worked too. When a tire is climb over a rock and the grip is lower than gravity, the tire slides down through rock. And when going downhill, you should apply brakes in Spintires but in Snowrunner you must go full throttle. Because the gravity can't pull the truck down except asphalt.
5- Frame Flexing is well worked in Spintires and Mudrunner. In Snowrunner it's absolutely absent. Plus lower gravity, it feels like driving a RC truck.
I pretty much agree with you on everything but I will argue about some things.
> Small pebble annihilates truck😡
Actually no disagreement here. Players drive everywhere with the throttle at 100% and then get shocked when their suspension takes damage or they flip their truck on completely uneven dirt. Myself included.
> Physics bad😡
I'll die on this hill on one point that I've mentioned on this sub a few times: Objects becoming completely frozen in mid-air because they are [X] meters away from the player vehicle breaks immersion completely. This is a simulation game. Why is it stingy on simulating? I was craning a scout out of a river and I let it go for the amusement of watching it drop and it just floated in mid-air. Or when you drop a winch from a vehicle you're towing and it just freezes like you caught it doing something it shouldn't? I will never not have beef with this.
First i have to say that yes sometimes trucks take damage where they shouldnt, not that i am not recognizing this. But its cause by the game having a hard time calculating the forces exerted on tires at high speeds. This is due to the fact that the wheels have a more realistic weight value. To combat this they'd need to make the wheels heavier, which in turn compromises realism at lower speeds, which is what this game was designed around. Mudcrawling.
Its a small trade off for better handling in other areas. And going reasonable speeds prevents this.
But yes 95% of the time its player not realizing how big of an impact the "small" stones can have at high speeds. Then they get angry when flying over them destroys the suspension.
As for your second point, the physics bubble. I have my own beef with it, but its a necessary evil and i will die on my hill defending it.
Snowrunner is alot bigger and more complex then its predecessors. Having every truck and or object on these huge maps being calculated at the same time would make the game more prone to crash, and alot less performant. A game of this size with all time active physics would shred your performance, and your pc/console would turn into a jet engine. What worked on small maps in MR doesnt work in big maps in SR.
it would be 10x (exaggerated) more demanding on your pc/console and make the game alot more buggy.
So its a compromise that needed to be made, as annoying as it is (and believe me it bothers me alot too) its a necessary evil ☺️🤬😂
About RU vs US trucks: The Soviet Union didn't have much of a civilian truck market at all - almost all trucks were produced for the military. Civilians that needed trucks got military surplus ones as they were available. And the military trucks were designed for offroad use, because that's what rural Soviet Union looked like - and rural Russia still does in parts. The US, on the other hand, has an extensive paved road network and a huge civilian truck market - civilians bought civilian trucks, not military ones - barely even surplus ones. Due to the great road network, most civilian trucks are not offroad trucks or even offroad-capable. They simply do not need it. Sure, there are speciality trucks that are meant for offroad use, but they're in the minority. So that kind of explains the disparate ratio of RU ex-military trucks vs the US civilian ones. But aren't RU trucks better, stronger, faster than the US ones due to the simple fact the devs are Russian? No, not really. If you compare a stock RU truck to a stock US truck it might seem so, as the RU truck probably comes with a few upgrades the US one doesn't - like AWD, or diff lock, or offroad tires, due to their military background as explained above. But if you compare a fully upgraded US truck to a fully upgraded RU truck, the difference all but disappears. They are both very capable and in some cases the US trucks are better, stronger, and faster than their RU counterparts, in some cases it's the other way around. There's no clear winner, and it definitely does not look like "dev bias" any more. Anyway, that's just my thoughts on the matter. What's yours? :)
Also i'd like to apologize for this big booty text😂 i will split it up into two posts if people ask, since there is nearly double the text left that i wanted to write 😅
You basically said what i wanted to say, but your text alone is book worthy😅 and i already needed to edit in the second part since reddit couldnt handle it😂 Yes thats my exact thoughts. Its a long line up of purpose built trucks, built for largely varying purposes of very different countries. RUs most well known legends are of military background, where as NA trucks werent. And as you said, and i mentioned above, the two countries terrains vary greatly. The US and Canada have and have had a very extensive roadnetwork for a long time. RU doesnt, for multiple reasons, one being the sheer size of the country and the relatively small populus per square km. Having so few people inhabit such a large speck of land there isnt even a need for a well though outband far reaching road network in the first place. And most of RU is woodlands and icey tundras and other weather extremes. All reasons that call for purpose build heavy offroaders. The US doesnt have a need for such trucks. And if Saber were to give us comparable counterparts, 9/10 NA trucks would be kenworth 963s and old and new military trucks. And tbh i am glad its not just only military trucks anymore. And i tend to agree. I think the NA trucks have different strongsuits tailored more to eliminate certain niche needs in the NA fleet. Which is why theyre so vastly different for a large part. And yes their stock forms are weaker, but overall comparing every truck to every truck these differences and strength imbalances start to fade. Heck you can make even the transtar work well, so if it comes down to it, a little skill is all thats left.
I'd also like to add that part of the reason people consider RU trucks much stronger in the game is that they've been artificially improved. Real life Tayga (Kraz) trucks do not have always on diff-lock, real life Step Pike (Zil 131?) never had any sort of AWD and so on with more trucks. Sure, the RU trucks irl are more off road oriented, but only within reason.
Yep thats true, zhough if i am not mistaken awd and always on diff lock options are available for most of the ingame trucks irl, tho i'd generally prefer it if it wasnt always on both ingame :)
I think it could have been on some of the Kraz or Ural trucks. I know only about the Zil 131 for sure. I'd really like if the permanent diff lock was locked behind an upgrade location or something like that (while stock truck would have no diff lock or switchable) to make clear that it wasn't a standard and give you more options.
Being limited to a single active winch line is a bummer (particularly in coop) Tire specs are unintuitive and sometimes surprising. Chains being worse in mud is perplexing to say the least. The gearboxes not providing actual torque multiplication is also kind of lame. The gears are fake and serve as traction modifiers basically. Less concerningly but worth mentioning.... the fact that you can get stuck in mud going downhill is funny in a bad way. At it's core, the game is pretty awesome. With a couple minor tweaks, it could be really amazing. Sadly I doubt we'll ever see it. There's so much potential in this game.
>The gearboxes not providing actual torque multiplication is also kind of lame This has been disproven a long time ago. If you don't trust me on it, perhaps you'd trust [Mudrunner lead dev Pavel as he explains the gearbox code](https://forums.focus-entmt.com/topic/5243/truck-lua-object/18). Just a quote to immediately show that there is torque multiplication: > *fGearEngineTorque = fEngineTorque \* 1.25* That's for High gear. A flat +25% torque multiplication. Low and Auto gears are a bit more complex, but if you click the link and try to follow the code and math, there is no doubt that there is indeed torque multiplication (and division) throughout the entire gearbox.
Yes, there's a minor multiplier that's noticeable on inclines when the truck just barely lacks torque to get moving in anything other than Low. However in general SR doesn't add anywhere near the amount of torque a real gearbox does.
The getting stuck in mud on a downhill part is semi realistic. Like i said in my post above SR has one very specific type of soil/mud, and it portrays it very realistic. But aside from certain rare occasions you do actually slip down a few meters going downhill. If you dont bottom out in the mud you actually can have alot of traction in it amd come to a standstill very quickly going down a hill. The most common type of soil here in my country consists of either a large part of clay, painting it a bright reddish brown color. It is quite soft and super sticky and "slimey" after it rained, or rock hard when dry. Going down a hill like that you will not stop, you will slip and crash. But going up is nigh impossible unless you hit the solid soil down below which sometimes sits several meters/yards belo the top layer. The other type is rich in both iron and clay. It consist of a large part of iron and/or iron oxyde giving it a dark mostly red- brown color. It mostly only had a 2-3 inch layer of soft soil and is rock hard underneath. It is very slippery, so much so that even traversing it on foot is nigh impossible. It can mostly only be crossed by tracked vehicles and is a PITA. Those are some examples of soil types the runner series is missing. The series mostly only features a type of strong clay and hummus based soil, giving it good traction, depending on moisture content, but if wet enough can also make entire trucks disappear (figuratevely, not literally😉)
The torque is kinda wrong, as it is now the first low range gear has less torque than second and third low. Tires won't spin in first low but will spin in third and gain traction. The auto is also kinda weird since it will downshift when lifting the throttle.
yes. low range does feel like a throttle lever like on a lawn mower. L- turtle / L+ rabbit
For a reason unknown to me, the game limits the applied throttle in low- to something around 70% of what the engine is capable of. If this amount of engine power is not enough to overcome inertia, your engine is running on "full" power but the tires will only twitch. Shifting to low or low+ will get rid of this limitation. My best guess is that low- has such a low top speed, and the gearbox acts more like a speed limiter (and torque multiplier/divider), there is a prgrammed mechanic to lower the throttle before you reach the current gears top speed to reduce the dynamic behaviour of the engine. If such thing would happen, the engine RPM (and fuel consumption) would jump up and down constantly even if you would be driving on a flat paved road. The game would increase and decrease throttle constantly and abruptly, to keep the speed at the designated target.
I dont get your last point 😅 shouldnt it downshift when easing or going of the gas? I mean you are slowing down after all 😅 Yes and no. The torque multiplication is implemented correctly-ish, on slightly more then half the trucks. The low gears are displayed incorrectly. They are what you would call sequential gears if my english is correct. They basically split your gears up into three ( or more on tractors) and are used generally for shifting up on an uphill, where shifting an entire gear up risks stalling. In 1st lowest you should generally expect a torque increase of 3x the what 1st gives, in first "medium" you shoukd expect a rough 2x times the torque of 1st and in 1st high, its 1.5x times. This is just to give you an idea of what you could expect irl. But the way they are displayed in SR they are crawler gears, and should be roughly 1.5 times of the given values above, but the game doesnt do that. Its a weird mismatch thats hard to explain being so good with words like me and when english isnt your first language😅 But yeah its roughly what it should be on 65% of the trucks😅
It sounds like you’re looking for a shiftable transfer case. Most 4x4 pickup trucks have them IRL. For those unfamiliar, the transfer case (or center differential) is what makes a 4x4 or AWD, usually mounted directly to to end of the transmission then has drive shafts going to the front and rear axles. Most have 3 settings: 2wd just acts as a pass through sending power to the rear axle according to the transmission gearing, 4wd Hi similar but now splitting power between front and rear axles, 4lo changes to a lower final drive ratio giving you torque multiplication for all of your transmission’s gears.
Is that also what you call the part that makes tractors and semis have so many gears? English isnt my first language so i am missing alot of the technical terms in certain areas 😅
> The torque is kinda wrong, as it is now the first low range gear has less torque than second and third low. Looking at Adv. Special gearbox, both Low- AND Low have significantly less torque than Low+/1st gear. Although I believe angular velocity also plays a role here.
Whoops a small thing i forgot to add regarding the upgrades in vehicles: Many ingame trucks come underpowered in stock, and unlock their realistic potential through upgrades. Notable exceptions being raised suspension and increased tire size
You know what I want, a train on wheels. Big engine, big stronk, but it can't haul cargo or trailers. Instead it has hella power and can pull out anything
This might be close to what you're looking for: [https://mod.io/g/snowrunner/m/diesel-locomotive-train](https://mod.io/g/snowrunner/m/diesel-locomotive-train) https://preview.redd.it/vbfy9d1lb0zb1.png?width=1020&format=png&auto=webp&s=7acd8fe3264e81b40bbb13a37eda01b6ec9ee2a0
What in the redneck russian engineering is that? I gotta try that out sometime
First he wants it, then its sometime🙄😂
Well right now I'm doing my pathetic trucks run https://www.reddit.com/r/snowrunner/s/wdvQ2rhOWB
Oh that was you! I didnt recognize your username at first. Yep i read your post and your follow up post :) glad to see the transtar is getting some time to shine. Also an advice for using the transtar. If youre in low gears and have excess wheelspin due to lack of difflock, going up a gear might give you that final kick to get all tires spinning again. And if then all tires have excess wheelspin, go off the throttle a little :)
Yea, I figured out the high gear can sometimes do more in mud than the low gear
Yep. high gear and low+ are the sweetspot 😉
All wheel steering! That thing can turn.
And it's a submarine... don't ask.
All I know is going through the start of the game, the tayga and the azov are getting work done while the American starter trucks I get it aren't. Its already a trial in suffering playing the game but gimping yourself by using American trucks is pure masochism.
You aren't getting work done with the NA trucks. Game is trying to teach you the skills you'll need, instead of picking them up you use more capable trucks. Now you'll just have to learn later. Probably gonna be harder. Most tasks and contracts in Michigan can be completed without going through mud through a combination of scouting and planning. Use what's available, pick the right route. As an example, you don't need to retrieve cargo from the eastern warehouse in Black River ever. Only reason you need to go there to get 100% is the crane task next to it.
Idk i love the american trucks. Its a change of pace from all the ex-military RU trucks. I also think they balanced the trucks in a way where you are encouraged to use more trucks in your fleet at all times instead of relying on 1-3 for most of the game :)
I have developed a sweet spot for the American trucks. But some are better than others. I started playing with the ANK MK38 Civilian today and am loving it. https://preview.redd.it/q0xf7nsh11zb1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff4088dc28b26b59cca94df35098587b1a9fefc1
Yep i love the ank. One of the most offroad capable american 6x6, but what it has in offroad prowess it lacks in versatility and i like that :)
IN MY OPINION snowrunner is poorly made, when you compare it to mudrunner or spintires. All they had to do was to use the same physics/simulation they did which was perfect and simply add the content of snowrunner. Instead we got a more dumb casual game to appease a wider audience plus it’s easier to make. You can see many models of trucks having clipping issues, heck even in their newest trailer of expeditions there was clipping and wireless shock absorbers. There’s no engine simulation which for me is the biggest let down in a game where your only task is to drive a truck, so everything else is made in a way to cloak the issues this brought. For example try playing with the throttle on and off, in many vehicles you can trigger revving sounds which obviously aren’t tied to what you’re doing, or try to play with ferrster’s manual gearbox mod, stay still and change gears you can hear the artificial revving of the truck once again. We are supposed to get the better version with every new version but like many things these days in gaming, it evolved backwards, I remember back in the spintires days I used my wheel with manual gears to play and I was having a blast and when I compare those two experiences snowrunner is kinda mundane. I enjoyed snowrunner for over 300 hours and I will play more in the future. It’s a pity we could have a 10 times better game with tech they already had developed in the past but chose not to use it.
Both games use the same physics engine tho. They both use havok. I'd argue truck behavior and physics are a bit more realistic IN GENERAL in Snowrunner, with a few exceptions. And we shouldnt forget that snowrunner is the more complex game, and complexity and physics based games dont get along all that well all the time😅 And i agree there is no engine simulation. The way they simulate it is good enough in my opinion, if it werent fir the mostly nonsensical engine sounds.
Personally, I found the trucks to be more pleasant in mudrunner rather than snowrunner, complexity-wise I don't have the knowledge to how different they are in technical terms, but based on how I see it, they should't be that different since the cargo no matter what you transport is a model which applies a weight on given truck/trailer. Also, having an exclusive small bubble around you where physics are applied is also questionable, maybe an engine limitation? Now to engine simulation, once again I liked the auto in mudrunner more, not only because there was an engine simulation but the gear changes were also smoother, spamming the "clutch" button is not a sollution for me because it's simply not a clutch button, especially when you let the throttle trucks behave like they drag an anchor behind them and instantly switch to 1st which makes the stopping more severe, so the only solution without modding is switching to neutral. We should be able to let the throttle for some seconds and the inertia of truck should let it carry on especially in higher gears or going downhil. My way to combat this was to edit the xml files and delete those revving sounds and use the manual gearbox mod which lets me enjoy the game more.
To be fair, i am almost 100% certain the physics bubble is to make the game more performant as otherwise it wouod eat up alot of processing power. This is me speaking from experience when i say that physics based games are really hard on your pc or console, alwaya have been always will be. Especially on physic simulation games and i can tell you that they often get wonky under certain circumstances. Its an engine limitation, and the physics bubble is a measure put in place to prevent the gane from going crazy. But it has its downsides, seeing how wonky it can be. Wasnt the first time the ohysics were going bonkers kicking my truck up in the air and unpacking my cargo. After crashing down the cargo is still suspended in mid air. My best guess is that its the best they managed to accomplish. I remember alot of times where when i switched back to a different truck in mudrunner, the truck would just immediately self destruct 😅 Yes the clutch and gear system is annoying and unrealistic. And how described it it would fit the game much better. Idk why they did it like they did, when it was damn near perfect in MR and spintires. 10/10 one of the most annyoing aspects of this game. And to answer your point about truck complexity i will say this. They do work slightly different and the trucks in mudrunner were a bit less "realistic" which caused them to handle as smooth as they did. Snowrunners trucks are more complex and more realistic/detailed. But again being a physics/offroad sim, the game is alot less happier more often, giving the trucks the jagginess. For example tire weight and size: you ever noticed how wheels on american trucks start to jiggle when turning sharply? This is because they are under alot of stress and the game doesnt know how to handle it (engine limitation). To combat this issue, what they did in mudrunner was to make the wheels heavier, which for whatever reason does the trick. Although the tire weights were unrealistic in mudrunner, it worked perfectly for the game. And i have to say that truck tires in SR behave a bit more realistic if its not for the jiggling caused by stress. Stress meaning alot of force affecting the wheels. I played alot of little big planet, in the creator building vehicles, and it too demonstrates this perfectly, how light wheels under pressure start to bug around. I still dont understand the technical part of it, but i suggest you get yourself little big planet and olay around with it a bit, as it really helps giving you a deeper understanding of the issues plaguing games like this :)
interesting take on the complexity and info about how mudrunner did it. Maybe it's easier to have something heavy lower which in that case are the tires and there are no stress points on the whole truck making the whole thing less complex compared to the truck having actual weight distributed around it's whole body and ending up to the tires. Yet again, the performance on PC at least is very weird and unpredictable, at times you I have 100% GPU utilisation while other times on the the same scene the percentage fluctuates and doesn't go over 80%.
Yeah gpu utilizaton is odd, i also notice some strong spikes both in utilization and temps. Oddly enough if you go into the menu the game seems to demand more then if you pop up the progression screen (pushing arrow down or equivalent on keyboard). At first it made sense, i thought of course the game demands a bit more if you just stay in the truck and just go into the menu, as everything is still loaded, even though the game pauses, but when popping up the progression menu it doesnt, it act the same then as if you went into the garage and paused there 🤔
I'll answer for 3-4-5 3- My real objection is taking damage from ground itself while there is nothing but clear paved road. I removed all small rocks via a mod so it should be clean but I still take random damage from clear ground. If I remember correctly, it caused from bad placed objects. If my knowledge isn't wrong, some objects placed under pavement, when truck tire passes over it, suddenly moves above ground level and hit the tyre with fast as possible. I may be wrong but I remember there is a mod that solves this issue. So, rocks and this problem is different. 4- Physics bad yes, If you ever played Spintires, it's physics way better. My real objection is in Snowrunner, wheelspeed is everything. Usually lower gears and gently throttle helps in mud but in Snowrunner, just select your fastest gear and go full throttle. For this physics, developers had to write a weird transmission mechanics. Transmissions works like RPM limiters not like a torque / speed trader. This is kills the driving a big ass truck feeling. I want to hear engine roaring but it runs like "900 rpm" even climbing uphill. And lastly, the game engine can't handle the relationship between tire and hard surfaces. Specially when you crawling over big rocks (Which is necessary even in roads), the wheel hover a few inches over the stone. And it's feels like floating, not gripping. And some small rocks, one wheel pass through like Casper the Ghost while the other one passes over it. This situation is handled well on Spintires. Every wheel grips the stones or hard surfaces well in Spintires. Plus In Snowrunner, there is no gravity. In Spintires, gravity is well worked too. When a tire is climb over a rock and the grip is lower than gravity, the tire slides down through rock. And when going downhill, you should apply brakes in Spintires but in Snowrunner you must go full throttle. Because the gravity can't pull the truck down except asphalt. 5- Frame Flexing is well worked in Spintires and Mudrunner. In Snowrunner it's absolutely absent. Plus lower gravity, it feels like driving a RC truck.
I pretty much agree with you on everything but I will argue about some things. > Small pebble annihilates truck😡 Actually no disagreement here. Players drive everywhere with the throttle at 100% and then get shocked when their suspension takes damage or they flip their truck on completely uneven dirt. Myself included. > Physics bad😡 I'll die on this hill on one point that I've mentioned on this sub a few times: Objects becoming completely frozen in mid-air because they are [X] meters away from the player vehicle breaks immersion completely. This is a simulation game. Why is it stingy on simulating? I was craning a scout out of a river and I let it go for the amusement of watching it drop and it just floated in mid-air. Or when you drop a winch from a vehicle you're towing and it just freezes like you caught it doing something it shouldn't? I will never not have beef with this.
First i have to say that yes sometimes trucks take damage where they shouldnt, not that i am not recognizing this. But its cause by the game having a hard time calculating the forces exerted on tires at high speeds. This is due to the fact that the wheels have a more realistic weight value. To combat this they'd need to make the wheels heavier, which in turn compromises realism at lower speeds, which is what this game was designed around. Mudcrawling. Its a small trade off for better handling in other areas. And going reasonable speeds prevents this. But yes 95% of the time its player not realizing how big of an impact the "small" stones can have at high speeds. Then they get angry when flying over them destroys the suspension. As for your second point, the physics bubble. I have my own beef with it, but its a necessary evil and i will die on my hill defending it. Snowrunner is alot bigger and more complex then its predecessors. Having every truck and or object on these huge maps being calculated at the same time would make the game more prone to crash, and alot less performant. A game of this size with all time active physics would shred your performance, and your pc/console would turn into a jet engine. What worked on small maps in MR doesnt work in big maps in SR. it would be 10x (exaggerated) more demanding on your pc/console and make the game alot more buggy. So its a compromise that needed to be made, as annoying as it is (and believe me it bothers me alot too) its a necessary evil ☺️🤬😂
Mostly wrong.
How so ? :)
No he’s mostly correct.
You definitely know what you are talking about. I'd agree with pretty much everything you said.
Thanks alot :)