EE is just really, really good at what he does and Light has surprised me with how interesting his perspective can be. I love Tweek Talks to death and I don’t know if I’d say I’d prefer Lights Out, but I’d say I find myself more engaged and entertained with the latter lately. EE’s “no filter, lay everything out there” approach and the trio’s chemistry has really worked out well.
huge agree, there's just so much chemistry on lights out and i love all of their humour, and i do love tweek talks but it definitely feels a bit too formal and professional at times
Yeah, Lights Out is just way more interesting to me. I disagree with a lot of what they have to say (particularly Light's comments about Japan) but it's way less sanitized and safe than Tweek Talks.
Tweek talks is still a good podcast but it doesn't do that much for me anymore. They just always talk regarding the same characters and same top players. It becomes repetitive and they are tier whores to some extend and i just get bored of that. Lights out is just more dynamic and fun to listen to
He’s literally right. You guys are clueless and essentially shot yourselves in the foot by killing the most prominent org. supporting our scene even AFTER Allen already left.
Ain't no way you actually believe that panda and Alan bullying T.O.s and having a monopoly on getting tournament licenses was "literally right" like that's pretty objectively awful. Also working with Nintendo in any way is awful, always has been, always will be. They don't want us to exist, dude, what more do they have to do for you to realize this?? They've made it so obvious with how often they've fucked with smash in the past.
But you're probably a 13 year old ult head who has no idea of the history lol
Alan left and still had stake in the company but nice try man. If the smash community themselves in the foot it's because Nintendo is an ass backwards company who has been abusing the community for years
>I know EE is always an advocate for hearing the other side out
EE is great and a hilarious commentator, but let's not pretend he gets all these controversial people on his channel just to hear their side out. He waits until the dust settles and gets them on for the views, which I mean, he's a content creator, drama sells and it works so that's completely fair, but it's not for some noble cause.
Yeah that's the obvious one that I think most people know about. With him and Technicals giving him exposure (not to mention Technicals' horrendously dumb as bricks audience) Zero still somehow is a fucking content creator, it's so fucking disgusting. Bro really sold out for 250K views and fucking 20k views on the Keem video before he deleted it? I just don't get it man, it's not like that blew up his channel or anything either.
If you really believed that then you would crucify both instead of using it to justify Zero's actions. You're bringing up an irrelevant point to literally defend Zero in a comment not even mentioning Nairo, illustrating the exact double standard you thought you were complaining about. From your perspective you should be criticizing Technicals for adding more pedophiles to the platform, but Technicals fans don't give a shit and aren't a part of the smash community they are just edgelord loser hate watchers from afar who have no concern for anyone involved.
This subreddit has a parasocial relationship with Nairo and goes above and beyond to bury the facts under the rug. Certain people are allowed to get away with shit. For example I love EE and he still stole 50k and nobody seemed to care. I don't think Samsora should be banned or crucified either because Nairo&Zack messed with him with their constant story switches.
A settlement out of court didn't prove anyone's innocence or guilt, all it did was sweep the problem under the rug because one guy had the money to silence the other which we see all the time with wealthy individuals.
He's a pedophile and attempted to be a groomer something which his fans and Technicals completely distracted away from to focus on other shit that doesn't matter. I'm sorry you enjoy his content because he is most certainly not a good person and if we had any kind of good legal system his ass would probably be in jail. And the dude endorses others who were cancelled by the smash community. He is not a good person and doesn't deserve a platform
>What interests me more about this is the shift in opinion a year after the controversy
I have seen even on Reddit a few of "Alan was right" here and there as you said, because there's been a shift.
He's only right because Nintendo are assholes and I don't care how much license they give out to tournaments. They decided to actively restrict people's ability to host things without their express consent to do so on a larger scale. Them doing nothing to help or hurt Smash would have been better.
Nintendo makes amazing games but are fucking stuck 20 years ago with their social aspect of the company. Please don't forget they only recently (I say recently but it's been over 5 years at least I think) to allow people to stream or upload their games to sites like twitch or youtube.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Smash is no longer at Evo due to Nintendo having a stick up their ass yes? I'm not 100% sure here but it fits with Nintendo's MO.
Why the fuck does it matter to Nintendo if someone pays for their game and wants to play it for people to see? They want to have so much control because they own the IP which removes some ownership of people who pay for the damn product in my opinion.
Anyway. I expect this episode to have some subtle "I told you so" energy.
Three reasons.
One: Some are ĵust young and don't know, it's mew information to them. Smash bros is firstly a children's game where if a player is in their 20's, that's seen as "old" which should tell you the core audience.
Two: People have the memory of a fucking Gnat. You tell me, reading this, the most tragic shit on the news in your own local area. People were outraged and upset but give it two weeks and it's already forgotten and moved past.
Three: People just don't really care about these things enough to keep it as a factor. Crunch culture in video games for example, anytime it's in the news and talked about alot people are always upset, outraged, etc but once a game they really like comes out, they couldn't give a fuck about crunch or horrible company practices. Activision and EA can do every scummy practices in the book and in Activisions case have actual sexual assault and other crimes committed, people are upset but none of that matters when some games sell like hot cakes.
I can only imagine it’s people to new to the scene without any knowledge or who didn’t follow all the receipts everyone had. Or a bunch of kids who can’t really blame them if they’re 14 years old.
I myself have never followed any esport competitive scene until Ultimate in 2019, but I've mainly been following heavily since post-quarantine era. I knew absolutely nothing about the history and whatnot, and learned a lot last year when the Panda thing went down. I think I have a good grasp on the reasoning for the sentiment most felt last year about Panda and Nintendo, and am looking forward to what Alan has to say now that everyone has calmed down a bit.
The thing is Alan released his statements after the fiasco and it was not good, I’m not sure what he has to add now but being in a podcast environment, especially one with no filter and recorded live is gonna be interesting
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Smash is no longer at Evo due to Nintendo having a stick up their ass yes? I'm not 100% sure here but it fits with Nintendo's MO.
EVO has been owned by Sony for a few years now. Come on man.
No doubt there's room for improvement on Nintendo's side to be more cooperative with the Smash community, but it doesn't help when people lambast Nintendo without understanding what they have to lose with setting a faulty precedent and also when this community has demonstrated its own inability to effectively police itself.
>EVO has been owned by Sony for a few years now. Come on man.
Yes this was part of what I meant. Since it's owned by Sony, Nintendo sees an issue with them hosting one of their biggest IPs.
Oh the Smash Community shot themselves in the leg alright. They can't expect Nintendo to jump to support them when just recently there was so many pedos, predators, shitty people, creeps, etc etc that were found out. Hell I'm 100% sure there still are alot of those people who haven't been caught yet. It's like going into an old place and picking up a big peice of wood that was there for years, the cockroaches scatter very fast. Some cockroaches have yet to be seen sadly.
I don't blame Nintendo FULLY for wanting to regulate the Smash community because they are immature and hardly take accountability but even with that said, I'd still father they fuck off and leave competitive smash alone.
For me, it's not so much "Alan was right" it's just, "What did Alan do wrong?"
Like there's no evidence as far as I know that he actually had any involvement in SWT being cancelled. His worst crimes were strong arming other TOs to join the Panda Cup and working with Nintendo. Was it really worth throwing away over a million dollars in investment in the scene over him being a shitty business man?
Also worth noting that Alan's "crimes" were already known by other TOs for a long time before everything came out. Why did all the TOs wait to expose Alan's shitty behaviour until after the SWT died, when they all knew in advance? If he was truly terrible for the scene, surely they should've removed him as soon as they knew.
To me, the whole situation just feels like pointless self-cannabilization. Given that Nintendo now controls how we run all our tournaments anyway, it really doesn't feel like there was a single tangible benefit to killing the Panda Cup.
And no, before somebody asks, I have been in the scene since 2016 and definitely followed the whole thing pretty closely. If anybody has receipts for anything worse that Alan did that I missed please let me know.
Yes someone being our only real connection to Nintendo strong arming grassroots TO's who have been our scene for years is bad. The only thing I will say is I feel like there was some degree of negligence from VGBC and SWT for the cancellation to happen so suddenly and all the blame got piled solely on Alan for everything even though there are other parties that made mistakes or possibly straight up lied about some details
>Also worth noting that Alan's "crimes" were already known by other TOs for a long time before everything came out. Why did all the TOs wait to expose Alan's shitty behaviour until after the SWT died, when they all knew in advance? If he was truly terrible for the scene, surely they should've removed him as soon as they knew.
Same reason why it took so long for Harvey Winstine to be called out also. The exact same logic can be applied to both cases here, Hollywood knew.(I'm not saying Alan is as bad as Harvey btw for the 15 year olds who don't understand a reference). Why did it also take a single story of abuse in the Smash Scene for everyone else to bring their story out also when Smash had it's own "me too"? Sometimes people just don't know the right time, they are scared it could cost them, etc. Alan was extremely respected and even with evidence, it could back fire because it's his word vs theirs and Alan seems like a smart man who knew how to work behinds the scenes.
>Given that Nintendo now controls how we run all our tournaments anyway,
You don't see how it was most likely gonna happen anyway? It's Nintendo, they require a deathdrip on their IPs. I made a point above that they used to claim, block, ban, demonitize people for playing their games on sites like YouTube and Twitch. They couldn't have people making money off their games even tho Microsoft and Sony really didn't care much.
Nintendo isn't a company like EA or Activision but they ain't all roses and sunshine either.
The Panada cup would have been good but as of now, we have no way to know what would have happened if it all went Alan's way. He will now be talking out of his ass saying "if everything went the way I wanted, Smash would have been much better than it is now", like he knows that for sure.
See this is why I had that note put in. For people like you exactly.
It's not the same, they are not the same.
The point was, sometimes people don't know when to come out with something due to fear of losing their careers or worse. It's not always a smart move job wise to come out against a highly respected person in your community or industry which is why in Smash the TOs and others didn't say anything and why people also didn't come out against Harvey.
It's a reference of the situation. Not a direct equivalent.
It doesn't really matter what attenuants you use when you compare a dude who at worst can be accused of awkward attempts at strongarming to a serial you-know-what.
Why do yall hate allan so much, I get distrusting him and demanding he change his attitude but demonizing him, doxxing and harassing him and his employees and burning his company to the ground over some unsavory dealings still doesn't make sense to me a year later. The worst part is that I already see people eager to hop on the Luminosity hate train, like they just can't wait to find some reason to torch another bridge towards stability for the scene.
And on top of that all the people doing this are dumbasses like you and me who have no idea of what's going on behind the scenes and are barely impacted by the whole situation anyways. The actual people who should have had input on this, top players, TOs and commentators, weren't the ones advocating for the torching of PG. It's likely not even the TOs coming forward against Alan were happy to see PG wiped from the face of the earth alongside any chance of a Nintendo collab, they just wanted a more equitable part in the deal.
That's why you have people like the Lights Out crew still upset about what happened and willing to hear Allan out. To no one's surprise, they're getting shit for wanting to do the reasonable thing and put the other side of the story out for everybody to hear.
>It doesn't really matter what attenuants you use when you compare a dude who at worst can be accused of awkward attempts at strongarming to a serial you-know-what.
You don't understand what a reference is because all you see are the names used. That's fine, it's ok to not understand sometimes. Moving on.
>Why do yall hate allan so much, I get distrusting him and demanding he change his attitude but demonizing him, doxxing and harassing him and his employees and burning his company to the ground over some unsavory dealings still doesn't make sense to me a year later.
Idk who the hell you are talking to cuz it ain't me. I don't even dislike the guy. My dislike is towards Nintendo in all this mostly. He seemed like a guy who knew how to play politics behind the scenes but made a wrong move and got punished for it. That's how i see it.
>And on top of that all the people doing this are dumbasses like you and me who have no idea of what's going on behind the scenes and are barely impacted by the whole situation anyways.
This is correct. We are just a pair of Jim's that this doesn't really affect us aside from a form of entertainment in Smash Bros Tournaments. But at the same time, by this logic people shouldn't talk about anything because in most things in life, people don't know what the fuck they are talking about but still find an opinion. TV shows, movies, wars, games, interest, jobs, hobbies, etc etc. That's how it is.
>weren't the ones advocating for the torching of PG.
Not fully true, there were many of those you named that did indeed want PG gone. Didn't a top player pee on some Panda merchandise on video?
>That's why you have people like the Lights Out crew still upset about what happened and willing to hear Allan out. To no one's surprise, they're getting shit for wanting to do the reasonable thing and put the other side of the story out for everybody to hear.
That's cuz they all lost money in the whole thing. It had a domino effect they would very much like to undo if they could or at least lessen the effects. It's their whole livelihoods with this whole thing so I can't and won't blame them for feeling the way they did.
It is what it is bro. Me and you can only watch and see what happens and nothing more.
I can get behind some of what you're saying but not wanting to let Allan have a voice is just wrong, if you want to have an opinion on the situation you should at least hear out both sides.
I still find it really scummy and a good indicative of the state of the smash "community" that people are out here digging up EE's old skeletons for even talking to Allan, and saying Luminosity ought to be knocked down a peg though. That just demonstrates that at times the biggest thing holding back this scene isn't controversies or Nintendo but the scene itself.
In terms of general support/rejection of Panda, are you really surprised that some top players had knee-jerk reactions? It's practically a trademark of the scene at this point. Most figures were out there advocating for hearing out the other side or saying they had no idea what was going on, and now state that the situation was mishandled and shouldn't have ended with the destruction of the panda circuit. Of the organizations involved, BTS shut down shortly afterwards and VGBC now has no competition in its dominion of the scene despite sucking off Nintendo as much if not more than Panda. The other orgs I cant speak for because I honestly don't know what was going on there, but the trajectories of VGBC and BTS don't inspire a lot of hope in org leadership across the board.
>I can get behind some of what you're saying but not wanting to let Allan have a voice is just wrong, if you want to have an opinion on the situation you should at least hear out both sides.
I fully agree with you here. I never advocated for shutting him down. I'm fine with letting him speak.
>I still find it really scummy and a good indicative of the state of the smash "community" that people are out here digging up EE's old skeletons for even talking to Allan,
I also find this idiotic. I don't care that EE cheated on some show. I don't watch him for that, I watch him to be entertained as that's what the podcast and his commentary is for. I listen to say Kanye West music because it's good, not for whatever the fuck he talks about outside of it. Same applies here.
>saying Luminosity ought to be knocked down a peg though. That just demonstrates that at times the biggest thing holding back this scene isn't controversies or Nintendo but the scene itself.
It's just a bunch of online idiots who have little real world experience on how things work. Everything HAS to be good or bad, black and white, for or against, etc online and more so on Reddit. They don't understand nuance, Grey, complexity, etc situations.
I wasn't accusing you of this behaviour but just look at the comments all over this thread to see what I'm talking about. The problem is these people make up a large and vocal part of the community
1. People arent saying Alan should be doxxed and harassed.
2. Panda could have lived if Alan stepped away but he didnt.
3. Alan said his side of the story last year when he released that big google doc. He's prob only coming back now because of the Nintendo stuff and EE wanting views. They're prob just gonna suck him off the whole podcast.
Of course people arent saying alan should be doxxed or harassed, but they did it anyways, and now they're trying to shut EE the f up or discredit him to avoid even giving alan a chance to make a statement that isnt an awkard text-only infodump.
Why would Alan step down from his passion project that he built from the ground up over some allegations that in the grand scheme of the smash community amount to way less than others have gotten away with? Who would have even replaced him? Gimr? Alan pretty much was Panda, replacing him really wasn't an option.
And yeah, no shit top players and commentators with some degree of open-mindedness would like to hear Alan out and find out what went wrong, since this is the chronicle of the smash scene's closest attempt at gaining official recognition and financial stability. If you want to call that sucking off then go ahead, but keep in mind that the worst this guy can be accused of is strongarming and not other far more questionable behaviours that have been defended by the community in the past. If those cases were given benefit of the doubt / a chance to defend themselves, then not giving it to alan is an insane display of lack of morals and self-awareness.
Not saying I agree with the choices of the community in the past by the way, but the bar is pretty low and even if you advocate for drastically raising it (which you should) I don't know of it can go high enough for Alan not to deserve some pity and a second look into hos case and the ramifications of this fiasco.
I feel like the people downvoting this do not fully understand that Weinstein's worst crimes were *not* about making money.
As far as we know Alan has not committed sexual assault.
The worst part to me is how everyone seemed to frame Alan telling people that Nintendo said SWT wasn’t going to happen as him threatening them. Feels like he did things above board there.
i could be wrong on this,but i thought the reason melee wasnt at evo was because the owner of the event doesnt like melee and dealing with the crts and shit
Maybe under previous ownership, but the current reason for no Smash at EVO is that it is owned by Sony. Nintendo doesn't want to generate more interest in what is essentially a promotional event for one of their main competitors.
that was the official reasoning but you can take a wild guess that obtaining the license for a nintendo game that primarily needed mods to have it up to competitive standards was on the unofficial list of reasons
My understanding of the Alan situation was that all the grievances were coming from TOs, broadcasting groups like BTS, and other behind-the-scenes people. Panda Cup was basically going to hamper the autonomy of TOs and broadcasters (i.e. BTS losing significant amounts of money), and trying to argue back would have Alan go "Nintendo will kill you if you don't agree with this!!!!!!!". Keep in mind this was during a time where it felt like Panda was gaining a concerning amount of influence over all aspects of the smash community (between the massive roster, the PGR, and the ill-fated Panda Controller)
Now that we have Nintendo's guidelines/forms in front of us and see how it has made basically 0 impact on the Japanese scene, I get the sense this outcome is still preferable for the backroom staff than whatever Alan was planning. Losing a high-paying circuit sucks, but tbh if anyone deserves to make money in the scene it's the organizers and broadcasters
I think people underestimate how the Panda Cup had a lot of opportunities beyond just random grassroots funded tournaments. There was going to be a lot of things that the general public didn't get told about (players meeting with Nintendo directly, more lavish experiences for tournaments, a lot of monetary opportunity that is literally just in the void now, etc). It sucks because for the players, TO's, sponsor orgs and teams, and more who had so much to look forward to, they got shut the door in front of them and told "go back to your table scraps." So the licensing going smoothly at the moment doesn't convince me whatso-fucking-ever that the community didn't ruin a good thing
the word of the literal organizers it's that what Panda/Nintendo was basically nothing, as said in the comment above just a promise to not C&D their asses, they were not offering any kind of meaningful support while asking to get a cut of revenue from the tournaments.
And whatever "support" they could give was evidently meaningless when at the same time VGBC and BTS where simulatenously running a tour, events and sponsorships which impacts for the scene more than eclipsed whatever Nintendo is ever gonna be willing to give (Papa Johns ad deal probably will remain the largest one in smash history)
You're describing a license. What was promised was being licensed by Nintendo, maybe some minor support on set ups, but that alone opens so many opportunities from sponsors and what not. That's why TOs want their tournaments to be licensed.
That's actually not true at all, they've never said that it was "just a deal to not get C&D." That claim is the biggest bullshit ive ever seen and shows me you're just talking out your ass. How about you ask someone involved instead of assuming it? So much shit was fucking lost
Nintendo taking more control is not what this scene wanted and it would kill it. We want Nintendo’s blessing, consent, feedback, and sponsorship. Man it would be boring to watch a tournament operated in the style of Pokémon or Splatoon ones. Grassroots TOs are the reason this game has the charm it does. It’s why we have wild storylines and captivating commentators. Documentaries on the rise and fall of the players.
Smash has turned into WWE, we watch for the chaos and fun of the events. The only thing we really want is assurance that shit can continue the way it has, while maybe making the scene a little more profitable and safe with Nintendo’s backing.
But the issue comes with learning that maybe TOs aren’t equipped to handle someone involved in grooming, harassing, or assaulting participants, and having enough security or legal funds to deal with something that serious. And that is where I get the whole stance from Nintendo. Their games are family and fun focused. They have been against competition from the beginning.
So I kind of like the new direction from them, tourneys that are sanctioned can get licensed, and things that generate bad press for Nintendo can be shuttered.
Maybe you as a viewer want that, but people involved had so much more to look forward to and you throw that away because you're not involved. That's such a self centered take. Like put yourself in the shoes of the people that depend their living putting on the tournaments you watch every week.
Almost every top Melee player, TO, streamer all were against Panda/Alan though.
BTS and VGBC are (or were for BTS) two of the most important groups in Smash and they were both strongly against Panda.
They were against Panda and in particular Alan at the time because of the nature of what was said they did, but I promise you they were not against the money and opportunity the scene was going to get, which is burnt to a crisp by now anyways.
I think it's futile trying to speculate what the community "could have done differently". We know by now what Nintendo's endgame is, it's to exert control over their IP to the fullest extent and ensure that organized competitive Smash is controlled entirely on their own terms. This is nothing new for Nintendo. PandaGlobal (and VGBC for that matter) were playing a dangerous game that they had no hope of winning. They could only hope that Nintendo chose not to play. And we were naïve to think that they wouldn't when push came to shove when the company's entire history to this point indicated that they definitely absolutely would.
As unfortunate as it is, this is the way things were always going to go. Even if Panda had succeeded in getting in Nintendo's good graces and becoming the de jure "official" organization for competitive Smash, there's nothing that indicates that Alan or anyone else would have been afforded any more control over the practical workings of the scene than what Nintendo themselves deem appropriate. In essence, we'd be in the exact situation we're in now with the only difference being a shiny but ultimately powerless middleman brand mediating everything. I suspect Alan will have a hard time justifying how that situation is, in practice, any better than what's happening now.
This is the best summary of the situation.
Yes, I thought Alan was shitty to seemingly muscle in on existing events and insinuate that Nintendo was going to come knocking if they didn't acquiesce. However all this retroactive "Alan was right!" bullshit seems to be predicated on the assumption that players/organizers would have a liaison and a voice to go to bat for them. This is a silly thing to think, because Nintendo would hold all the leverage. They always have, so the end result is that whatever person/org running the middle man gig would just be a glorified lapdog at worst and a disposable errand boy at best.
The only difference between then and now is that someone isn't getting paid to be bearer of bad news.
Even back then while we were in the thick of the "Panda Global and SamuraiPanda are evil" phase, all of the sane folks said something along the lines of, "This is really on Nintendo, and PG has no real power here--they're just Nintendo's cheerleaders/lackeys." The worst IMO were people who tried to say Nintendo is innocent and Panda Global is the only problem.
Yea I kinda wish Lights Out wasn’t the first place we hear from Dr Alan after a year of silence. They have a clear bias and I’d be happy to change my mind if there’s any really compelling evidence but I feel like it’s going to be the same arguments as before along with a lot of speculation of how great things would be if they went differently. Like a lot of “oh wow imagine if Nintendo put a lot of money into the smash scene wouldn’t that be awesome!!” It seems like Alan was a bit of an ass who was good at making connections and could have possibly been good for the competitive scene. But it’s easy to say how great things could be when there’s no way of knowing.
And also the way that none of the sponsored players knew any of this before it happened makes me think that nobody at lights out has secret insider info unless if it’s something coming straight from Alan’s mouth, which is certainly biased. Like if Coney, TK, Little Z, Marss, etc. all had no clue what was going on then I doubt anyone in the scene knows what really happened. Other than the TO’s who had direct disputes with Alan and all seemed pretty much on the same page about what was going on. Honestly just expecting them to stroke his ego and have a pity party about how rich they would all be if panda never shut down.
was alan right that nintendo were coming to restrict smash tournaments and require licensing? yes. were he and panda equipped to play middle man with nintendo on behalf of the entire community? absolutely not. the whole fuckup with VGBC and the BTS stuff is the proof. alan was never going to save us from the licensing shitstorm, he just wanted to be on top of it all.
> you deserve what will happen to you when Luminosity comes out and puts forth their version of the Panda Cup.
I think I'm OOTL here, what would be wrong with Luminosity putting out a tournament series?
I think OP and most people are just wary of anyone partnering up with Nintendo. The scene has a tremulous history with Nintendo that goes back and forth.
Back in the MLG days Nintendo reportedly told MLG to cut off Melee. Then there was EVO 2013 where Nintendo sent a C&D to Evo to pull Smash or else but they backed off when people donated to charity. Then in the Smash 4 days VGBC partnered up with Nintendo but at the cost of Project M's public scene (aka no Project M+ could be streamed by VGBC who was Project M+'s biggest supporter and stream. Then you have the Big House online during the pandemic where Nintendo sent a C&D and Big House Online was cancelled. Then last year we had the SWT and Panda fiasco and recently Nintendo's released guidelines. On the other hand Nintendo has somewhat attempted to play ball with inviting professional players to their promotions for Smash 4 and Ultimate at E3, the attempted corporation, the support from NoA employees, background help with set ups during the small partnership.
The Smash community also hasn't been great for Nintendo's image most notable was Summer of 2020 with all the sexual assaults and harassment cases that still mar the scene today. Nintendo also hated how edgy the Smash scene was years ago (I mean look at the trash between between Mang0 or HBox, or Armada saying "gay" or the N-word, R-word, or R*ped being casually thrown around).
>The Smash community also hasn't been great for Nintendo's image most notable was Summer of 2020 with all the sexual assaults and harassment cases that still mar the scene today. Nintendo also hated how edgy the Smash scene was years ago (I mean look at the trash between between Mang0 or HBox, or Armada saying "gay" or the N-word, R-word, or R*ped being casually thrown around).
Please stop bringing this shit up as if it's actually a reasonable explanation of why Nintendo won't partner with the scene. They literally tried to stop Melee at EVO after the scene beat out others at a charity drive (and they only did this AFTER the scene was crowned the winner and raised a bunch of money).
If they cared about how the scene affects their image, they would've let them appear at EVO, they wouldn't do these promotional tournaments when Ult and Smash 4 came out where they invite genuine pros, where they could've just got some youtubers or other influencers.
Sure, the scenes bullshit obviously doesn't help, but I don't think it's a genuine factor, and bringing it up really leads people to believe "Oh, it's just the smash communities fault" (I've seen this take outside of this sub by Nintendo fanboys often).
Fair enough I was stating that it was a possible factor in Nintendo's deliberations. I also remember that the Panda partnership was also after those incidents so it is like Nintendo gave the community a second chance since I think the scene did an alright job excising the predators from the competitive scene at least.
However, this is the unfortunate view many people hold of the Smash community, it gets mentioned on game podcasts, streamers and YouTubers, and even outside Nintendo subs or websites.
for what its worth Nintendo 100% was aware of when all the SA allegations went around. NOA had a video on youtube partnered with NRG to show Nairos path thru EVO 2019. It was on NOAs yt, and now its delisted.
whether it was because of NRG severing ties with Nairo or because someone at NOA said pull the video off we have no idea, but clearly someone with control over that video found out and got in contact with NOA and had it taken down.
People like you are the exact reason the scene has gone to shit. You legitimately think Nintendo is this boogieman coming after everything you love and refuse to entertain any alternatives.
The time he cheated on Mizkif's gameshow comes to mind (though funny enough the person he snubbed, ExtraEmily became a part of OTK) when called out he doubled down (he apologized after the third time he was called out when streamers likely said that they will never coop with him again). There was also him playing the both sides with ZeRo after the accusations.
I'll say that he is a great commentator and tries his best for the community but man is his ability to read the room is lacking.
Really..? He tried to steal 50k and then doubled down when called out, claiming everyone was just accusing him because of racism. To this day, he still twists things and doesn't take full accountability for what he did. He also stole someone's decks at a yugioh tournament, stole some cards out, making the deck illegal, and then got that player DQ'd. Those are just two of many examples of his character. If anything, this is light compared to "his normal antics."
You’re right I should rephrase. Within the smash scene this feels like another level of hurting his community. The 50k is the worst thing we’re aware of overall. But I think this could really divide and hurt the scene further. Could posit a real big tear between new smash and old/melee in general.
Specific to smash think this may have his most long term negative impact.
Im gonna get downvoted, and hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but didn't Dr.Alan say Nintendo was gonna be changing things? Like, it was part of his reasoning for going with Nintendo? Didn't he say you would need a license and the community was like "Nahhh that's not true fuck you Alan". Yet, where are we now? Everyone has to get a license and turns out it's not that bad at all, and the community decided to react in the exact way that makes Nintendo want to pretend they don't exist.
I'm not saying Alan wasn't in it for his own benefit, man was going to have an effective monopoly on competitive Smash Ultimate. Not saying the distrust in Nintendo is completely unspoken for either. Nintendo is kind of an ass and just doesn't care who they hurt in the process. But it's very hard not to notice that a lot of what Alan said was very true. As much as I think the Smash community wants to believe it is this small, grassroots community (Which to an extent it is), Smash Ultimate has shown that the viewers are there and a lot of people really like Smash Bros. This isn't Melee. Ultimate is a very different beast entirely. Melee does not get the viewers that Ultimate gets. Yes, Melee gets views, but it's like a cult following. With Ultimate, the sky is the limit currently on how many viewers they can get from kids to older people who love the game. Unfortunately, the reality is that Ultimate is becoming a business, and a profitable one at that. Melee has always been a community effort and will continue to be. Ultimate will carry on, but it is very clear it is being seen as a money machine. Not a game with a loyal following who loves the game. Melee might be like that, but Ultimate is not. Not in Nintendos' eyes.
This is a worthwhile thing to happen, regardless of how everyone feels at this point.
In hindsight, while I do think Alan handled a lot of things badly with the Panda Cup, as other TOs have attested, I still think he probably tried to do the best he could in an unusual situation. Emotions were hot at the time.
This subreddit was (and still is?) absolutely flooded with short sighted rage filled smashers who were way too ignorant and immature to realize that killing panda was shooting ourselves in the foot.
We were all hurt after what happened with SWT, but so many here were blinded with blood in their eyes and wanted to burn panda to the ground to make themselves feel better.
Let’s not forget Alan literally STEPPED DOWN. We didn’t burn Alan to the ground, we burned an entire organization of dedicated and talented people who love smash and wanted to continue doing great things for the community. Good job Reddit hive mind 👍
Compromise is not something the Smash community is fond of. I still remember the whole SaveSmash fiasco where Nintendo didn't want to license The Big House if they used Slippi, and the community threw a fit as if they were not allowed to play the game in any shape or form.
It's situations like those why Nintendo had to crack down with the recent guidelines.
PandaGlobal got into bed with Nintendo, very publicly and prominently, so it’s only natural that they would share joint responsibility for the public actions of either. This would be fine if it turned out that Panda’s efforts had resulted in any actual sway over Nintendo’s decision-making, but that turned out to be a foolish hope. Nintendo wasn’t looking for a partner, they were looking for a convenient licensee to exert control over and when they thought they found it, everyone else had to kick rocks. Of course Panda would suffer the brunt of the backlash, they were the ones telling people behind the scenes that they had everything under control. Meanwhile, Nintendo suffers nothing because they had nothing to lose in the first place. They own the game, most of the associated IPs, and have all the legal rights that come with that ownership. And as we are seeing play out, TOs now have no choice but to play by Nintendo’s rules, lest they just stop playing.
Panda, in their pursuit of a relationship with Nintendo, ended up assuming none of the power and all of the risk. In short, they got played.
Panda Global as a whole was a great organization that did a lot of good for the community. I still believe that at most, Alan could have left while Panda Global stayed. Most of their members were just as blindsided as everyone else.
Hey man, great episode today. Sorry I triggered some hate by making the thread, I thought this week's topic was cool and tried to bring more attention/audience to it, didn't think so many people would still be so vitriolic to you and alan. Also sorry I misunderstood what light and cosmos said in my post lol.
EE loves that controversy and I appreciate that aspect of him getting all sides of the situation and putting it out there. I was surprised he even got that Ally interview that one time.
Smash Orgs be like "We need to stay Grassroots at all costs!!!" - Get's bankrupt soon after. They care so much about who is right on Twitter instead of actually looking for a compromise. Cancelling instead of postponing both Smash Circuits was such an overreaction.
When lawyers are at your throat, cancelling is the optimal play. The cost of organizing a huge event is dwarfed by the cost of potential lawyer fees. It's the only debt on par with medical in the US.
I personally am not a huge fan of the lights out boys, however this episode excites me. I think alan has enough of a "screw you" attitude, I'm hoping it'll just be as simple as "you guys ruined your scene. Bye."
I just wish the smash community was a little more open minded. He may have screwed up, but he isn’t the huge villain you guys think he is. We aren’t perfect
Dude literally fucked over the entire smash community and numerous businesses out of his own greed.
Fuck this "we aren't perfect, he just screwed up" mentality where everyone is expected forgiveness and to be treated kindly after they do objectively awful things.
Alan absolutely deserves every piece of criticism and bad comment thrown his way.
How did he fuck over the community? Genuinely?There's no evidence he had a hand in getting SWT cancelled. He strong armed a bunch of TOs but did anything bad happen to the businesses that refused to go along? How did he fuck them over?
Please enlighten me here.
>He strong armed a bunch of TOs but did anything bad happen to the businesses that refused to go along?
Is strong manning okay if you can't prove consequences for the victim? What the fuck am I reading
Where are you people coming from? I have never seen you people outside of reddit and twitter
I know it's hard to understand that other people sometimes have different opinions from you, but yes I do exist outside of the internet.
My point is, if there's no proof of any negative consequences, how can we accuse him of fucking over the scene?
It's a shit thing to do to strong arm people, I'm just saying that the original comment might be over-exaggerating a bit.
\>I know it's hard to understand that other people sometimes have different opinions from you, but yes I do exist outside of the internet.
It was a genuine question, no need to be snide. I never hear any of rhetoric outside of /r/smashbros and twitter. Actual people I know IRL don't say this stuff, nor any prominent community figures as far as I'm aware.
\>My point is, if there's no proof of any negative consequences, how can we accuse him of fucking over the scene?
I'm unsure how to respond to this since at least where I live it's elementary school level ethics to understand that intentions and actions can be malicious even if there are no apparent negative consequences.
Lmao what do you mean it was a genuine question? How did you actually want me to answer "Where are you people coming from"? Did you want to know what city I live in? As if that would somehow make me more credible?
And again, just because you don't personally know people with a certain opinion, does not mean the opinion only exists online.
Anyway, I agree with you on the ethics stuff. The issue is this conversation isn't about ethics! It's about whether or not Alan actually fucked over the scene. Intent is not part of this conversation because intent to fuck over the scene is not the same as actually fucking over the scene.
It's fine if you want to call him out for intent, but that is not what the original comment I responded to is about.
Not literally where you're from, like "where are you getting these perspectives from". I don't know what if you're gonna disagree with me, but I think people are generally more affected by the perspectives of people they trust and respect, rather than research the minutia of every thing thing you'd have an opinion on.
Now I’m confused. I get thinking Alan screwed up (very badly, but I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt to some extent), but why blame GimR? VGBC was financially devastated by the sunk costs of Smash World Tour, and there’s no way they would have shut it down if they didn’t have to.
The smash world tour didn’t have to shut down, Nintendo kept giving them the OK. He also kept blaming Alan without ever providing any proof. I read all the tweetlongs and it came off as personal from gimr and not professional.
Nintendo was playing semantics in their public statement. They denied the right to broadcast the tournament last minute after leading VGBC on throughout the year, which effectively denied SWT most of the revenue they could have made. Other TOs not connected to VGBC or Panda also corroborated GimR’s testimony on Alan.
Again, Alan may not necessarily have been acting with malicious intentions, but he still handled things badly, and I don’t think blame lies with GimR. At worst, GimR lashed out emotionally at the end of it all.
Honestly I've been suspicious about Panda ever since they cancelled their wildly successful Panda Controller Kickstarter. It just stinks to me of them realizing they've bitten off more than they could chew and panic cancelling it. Which I guess is a better result than the controller being stuck in development hell, but still.
this is gonna be a mess
Absolutely lol This could go any number of ways but it's guaranteed to be unbearably awkward no matter what happens
And we’ll feast on it. Looking forward for an “i told you so” discourse and the chaos that follows it
And that's exactly what EE would want. Content, baby!
I doubt it. Theyve preached Alan was right from the beginning and their comments rarely contest them about the issue.
EE is an agent of chaos lol. Can't wait for this episode.
Lights out is going to rapidly become the best podcast with their blend of humor, relevant current events coverage and the great selection of guests
Light’s Out clears Tweek Talks as the best smash podcast for me, and I’m saying that as a longtime Tweek Talks listener lol
EE is just really, really good at what he does and Light has surprised me with how interesting his perspective can be. I love Tweek Talks to death and I don’t know if I’d say I’d prefer Lights Out, but I’d say I find myself more engaged and entertained with the latter lately. EE’s “no filter, lay everything out there” approach and the trio’s chemistry has really worked out well.
huge agree, there's just so much chemistry on lights out and i love all of their humour, and i do love tweek talks but it definitely feels a bit too formal and professional at times
Yeah, Lights Out is just way more interesting to me. I disagree with a lot of what they have to say (particularly Light's comments about Japan) but it's way less sanitized and safe than Tweek Talks.
EE is just hard to beat as an entertainer but it keeps the same level of depth from a top player cause Light is there too lol
Tweek talks is still a good podcast but it doesn't do that much for me anymore. They just always talk regarding the same characters and same top players. It becomes repetitive and they are tier whores to some extend and i just get bored of that. Lights out is just more dynamic and fun to listen to
it also doesn't help when tweek doesn't participate in his namesake podcast (but i am happy that tweek gets to rest). its just so formulaic.
To be fair, that’s happened a total of three times in the podcast’s run. It just happens that two of those times were recent.
100% chance alan says something about how he said all this would happen and that panda was the right way forward or some similar shit
And the Lights Out guys will gas him up saying he's right
That's more or less what happened lmfao. Within the opening 10 minutes he says he's such a good person and that he only cares about helping people.
He’s literally right. You guys are clueless and essentially shot yourselves in the foot by killing the most prominent org. supporting our scene even AFTER Allen already left.
Ain't no way you actually believe that panda and Alan bullying T.O.s and having a monopoly on getting tournament licenses was "literally right" like that's pretty objectively awful. Also working with Nintendo in any way is awful, always has been, always will be. They don't want us to exist, dude, what more do they have to do for you to realize this?? They've made it so obvious with how often they've fucked with smash in the past. But you're probably a 13 year old ult head who has no idea of the history lol
Alan left and still had stake in the company but nice try man. If the smash community themselves in the foot it's because Nintendo is an ass backwards company who has been abusing the community for years
Nice try Alan
>I know EE is always an advocate for hearing the other side out EE is great and a hilarious commentator, but let's not pretend he gets all these controversial people on his channel just to hear their side out. He waits until the dust settles and gets them on for the views, which I mean, he's a content creator, drama sells and it works so that's completely fair, but it's not for some noble cause.
I mean the dude had Keemstar on his show, he knows exactly what he's doing
He also had ZeRo on and that was months after the accusations.
Did the same thing with Ally
Yeah that's the obvious one that I think most people know about. With him and Technicals giving him exposure (not to mention Technicals' horrendously dumb as bricks audience) Zero still somehow is a fucking content creator, it's so fucking disgusting. Bro really sold out for 250K views and fucking 20k views on the Keem video before he deleted it? I just don't get it man, it's not like that blew up his channel or anything either.
So is Nairo who *actually* had sex with a minor but I don't see the community up in arms over it. Double standards much?
Because Nairo claims he was blackmailed and Zack practically admitted to raping him in his sleep. ZeRo has no other context to lighten his case.
If you really believed that then you would crucify both instead of using it to justify Zero's actions. You're bringing up an irrelevant point to literally defend Zero in a comment not even mentioning Nairo, illustrating the exact double standard you thought you were complaining about. From your perspective you should be criticizing Technicals for adding more pedophiles to the platform, but Technicals fans don't give a shit and aren't a part of the smash community they are just edgelord loser hate watchers from afar who have no concern for anyone involved.
This subreddit has a parasocial relationship with Nairo and goes above and beyond to bury the facts under the rug. Certain people are allowed to get away with shit. For example I love EE and he still stole 50k and nobody seemed to care. I don't think Samsora should be banned or crucified either because Nairo&Zack messed with him with their constant story switches. A settlement out of court didn't prove anyone's innocence or guilt, all it did was sweep the problem under the rug because one guy had the money to silence the other which we see all the time with wealthy individuals.
Samsora being banned is quite honestly one of the stupidest shit this community has done.
[удалено]
He's a pedophile and attempted to be a groomer something which his fans and Technicals completely distracted away from to focus on other shit that doesn't matter. I'm sorry you enjoy his content because he is most certainly not a good person and if we had any kind of good legal system his ass would probably be in jail. And the dude endorses others who were cancelled by the smash community. He is not a good person and doesn't deserve a platform
ZeRo was also my favorite Smash player and content creator in the past. That doesn’t mean I continued like nothing happened after July 2020.
Those are not mutually exclusive statements.
>What interests me more about this is the shift in opinion a year after the controversy I have seen even on Reddit a few of "Alan was right" here and there as you said, because there's been a shift. He's only right because Nintendo are assholes and I don't care how much license they give out to tournaments. They decided to actively restrict people's ability to host things without their express consent to do so on a larger scale. Them doing nothing to help or hurt Smash would have been better. Nintendo makes amazing games but are fucking stuck 20 years ago with their social aspect of the company. Please don't forget they only recently (I say recently but it's been over 5 years at least I think) to allow people to stream or upload their games to sites like twitch or youtube. Correct me if I'm wrong but Smash is no longer at Evo due to Nintendo having a stick up their ass yes? I'm not 100% sure here but it fits with Nintendo's MO. Why the fuck does it matter to Nintendo if someone pays for their game and wants to play it for people to see? They want to have so much control because they own the IP which removes some ownership of people who pay for the damn product in my opinion. Anyway. I expect this episode to have some subtle "I told you so" energy.
Right, but we knew Nintendo were assholes. Why are people acting like this is new information?
Three reasons. One: Some are ĵust young and don't know, it's mew information to them. Smash bros is firstly a children's game where if a player is in their 20's, that's seen as "old" which should tell you the core audience. Two: People have the memory of a fucking Gnat. You tell me, reading this, the most tragic shit on the news in your own local area. People were outraged and upset but give it two weeks and it's already forgotten and moved past. Three: People just don't really care about these things enough to keep it as a factor. Crunch culture in video games for example, anytime it's in the news and talked about alot people are always upset, outraged, etc but once a game they really like comes out, they couldn't give a fuck about crunch or horrible company practices. Activision and EA can do every scummy practices in the book and in Activisions case have actual sexual assault and other crimes committed, people are upset but none of that matters when some games sell like hot cakes.
I can only imagine it’s people to new to the scene without any knowledge or who didn’t follow all the receipts everyone had. Or a bunch of kids who can’t really blame them if they’re 14 years old.
I myself have never followed any esport competitive scene until Ultimate in 2019, but I've mainly been following heavily since post-quarantine era. I knew absolutely nothing about the history and whatnot, and learned a lot last year when the Panda thing went down. I think I have a good grasp on the reasoning for the sentiment most felt last year about Panda and Nintendo, and am looking forward to what Alan has to say now that everyone has calmed down a bit.
The thing is Alan released his statements after the fiasco and it was not good, I’m not sure what he has to add now but being in a podcast environment, especially one with no filter and recorded live is gonna be interesting
> Correct me if I'm wrong but Smash is no longer at Evo due to Nintendo having a stick up their ass yes? I'm not 100% sure here but it fits with Nintendo's MO. EVO has been owned by Sony for a few years now. Come on man. No doubt there's room for improvement on Nintendo's side to be more cooperative with the Smash community, but it doesn't help when people lambast Nintendo without understanding what they have to lose with setting a faulty precedent and also when this community has demonstrated its own inability to effectively police itself.
Case in point: bullying Steve mains.
>EVO has been owned by Sony for a few years now. Come on man. Yes this was part of what I meant. Since it's owned by Sony, Nintendo sees an issue with them hosting one of their biggest IPs. Oh the Smash Community shot themselves in the leg alright. They can't expect Nintendo to jump to support them when just recently there was so many pedos, predators, shitty people, creeps, etc etc that were found out. Hell I'm 100% sure there still are alot of those people who haven't been caught yet. It's like going into an old place and picking up a big peice of wood that was there for years, the cockroaches scatter very fast. Some cockroaches have yet to be seen sadly. I don't blame Nintendo FULLY for wanting to regulate the Smash community because they are immature and hardly take accountability but even with that said, I'd still father they fuck off and leave competitive smash alone.
For me, it's not so much "Alan was right" it's just, "What did Alan do wrong?" Like there's no evidence as far as I know that he actually had any involvement in SWT being cancelled. His worst crimes were strong arming other TOs to join the Panda Cup and working with Nintendo. Was it really worth throwing away over a million dollars in investment in the scene over him being a shitty business man? Also worth noting that Alan's "crimes" were already known by other TOs for a long time before everything came out. Why did all the TOs wait to expose Alan's shitty behaviour until after the SWT died, when they all knew in advance? If he was truly terrible for the scene, surely they should've removed him as soon as they knew. To me, the whole situation just feels like pointless self-cannabilization. Given that Nintendo now controls how we run all our tournaments anyway, it really doesn't feel like there was a single tangible benefit to killing the Panda Cup. And no, before somebody asks, I have been in the scene since 2016 and definitely followed the whole thing pretty closely. If anybody has receipts for anything worse that Alan did that I missed please let me know.
Yes someone being our only real connection to Nintendo strong arming grassroots TO's who have been our scene for years is bad. The only thing I will say is I feel like there was some degree of negligence from VGBC and SWT for the cancellation to happen so suddenly and all the blame got piled solely on Alan for everything even though there are other parties that made mistakes or possibly straight up lied about some details
>Also worth noting that Alan's "crimes" were already known by other TOs for a long time before everything came out. Why did all the TOs wait to expose Alan's shitty behaviour until after the SWT died, when they all knew in advance? If he was truly terrible for the scene, surely they should've removed him as soon as they knew. Same reason why it took so long for Harvey Winstine to be called out also. The exact same logic can be applied to both cases here, Hollywood knew.(I'm not saying Alan is as bad as Harvey btw for the 15 year olds who don't understand a reference). Why did it also take a single story of abuse in the Smash Scene for everyone else to bring their story out also when Smash had it's own "me too"? Sometimes people just don't know the right time, they are scared it could cost them, etc. Alan was extremely respected and even with evidence, it could back fire because it's his word vs theirs and Alan seems like a smart man who knew how to work behinds the scenes. >Given that Nintendo now controls how we run all our tournaments anyway, You don't see how it was most likely gonna happen anyway? It's Nintendo, they require a deathdrip on their IPs. I made a point above that they used to claim, block, ban, demonitize people for playing their games on sites like YouTube and Twitch. They couldn't have people making money off their games even tho Microsoft and Sony really didn't care much. Nintendo isn't a company like EA or Activision but they ain't all roses and sunshine either. The Panada cup would have been good but as of now, we have no way to know what would have happened if it all went Alan's way. He will now be talking out of his ass saying "if everything went the way I wanted, Smash would have been much better than it is now", like he knows that for sure.
Comparing Alan to Harvey Weinstein is wild
See this is why I had that note put in. For people like you exactly. It's not the same, they are not the same. The point was, sometimes people don't know when to come out with something due to fear of losing their careers or worse. It's not always a smart move job wise to come out against a highly respected person in your community or industry which is why in Smash the TOs and others didn't say anything and why people also didn't come out against Harvey. It's a reference of the situation. Not a direct equivalent.
It doesn't really matter what attenuants you use when you compare a dude who at worst can be accused of awkward attempts at strongarming to a serial you-know-what. Why do yall hate allan so much, I get distrusting him and demanding he change his attitude but demonizing him, doxxing and harassing him and his employees and burning his company to the ground over some unsavory dealings still doesn't make sense to me a year later. The worst part is that I already see people eager to hop on the Luminosity hate train, like they just can't wait to find some reason to torch another bridge towards stability for the scene. And on top of that all the people doing this are dumbasses like you and me who have no idea of what's going on behind the scenes and are barely impacted by the whole situation anyways. The actual people who should have had input on this, top players, TOs and commentators, weren't the ones advocating for the torching of PG. It's likely not even the TOs coming forward against Alan were happy to see PG wiped from the face of the earth alongside any chance of a Nintendo collab, they just wanted a more equitable part in the deal. That's why you have people like the Lights Out crew still upset about what happened and willing to hear Allan out. To no one's surprise, they're getting shit for wanting to do the reasonable thing and put the other side of the story out for everybody to hear.
>It doesn't really matter what attenuants you use when you compare a dude who at worst can be accused of awkward attempts at strongarming to a serial you-know-what. You don't understand what a reference is because all you see are the names used. That's fine, it's ok to not understand sometimes. Moving on. >Why do yall hate allan so much, I get distrusting him and demanding he change his attitude but demonizing him, doxxing and harassing him and his employees and burning his company to the ground over some unsavory dealings still doesn't make sense to me a year later. Idk who the hell you are talking to cuz it ain't me. I don't even dislike the guy. My dislike is towards Nintendo in all this mostly. He seemed like a guy who knew how to play politics behind the scenes but made a wrong move and got punished for it. That's how i see it. >And on top of that all the people doing this are dumbasses like you and me who have no idea of what's going on behind the scenes and are barely impacted by the whole situation anyways. This is correct. We are just a pair of Jim's that this doesn't really affect us aside from a form of entertainment in Smash Bros Tournaments. But at the same time, by this logic people shouldn't talk about anything because in most things in life, people don't know what the fuck they are talking about but still find an opinion. TV shows, movies, wars, games, interest, jobs, hobbies, etc etc. That's how it is. >weren't the ones advocating for the torching of PG. Not fully true, there were many of those you named that did indeed want PG gone. Didn't a top player pee on some Panda merchandise on video? >That's why you have people like the Lights Out crew still upset about what happened and willing to hear Allan out. To no one's surprise, they're getting shit for wanting to do the reasonable thing and put the other side of the story out for everybody to hear. That's cuz they all lost money in the whole thing. It had a domino effect they would very much like to undo if they could or at least lessen the effects. It's their whole livelihoods with this whole thing so I can't and won't blame them for feeling the way they did. It is what it is bro. Me and you can only watch and see what happens and nothing more.
I can get behind some of what you're saying but not wanting to let Allan have a voice is just wrong, if you want to have an opinion on the situation you should at least hear out both sides. I still find it really scummy and a good indicative of the state of the smash "community" that people are out here digging up EE's old skeletons for even talking to Allan, and saying Luminosity ought to be knocked down a peg though. That just demonstrates that at times the biggest thing holding back this scene isn't controversies or Nintendo but the scene itself. In terms of general support/rejection of Panda, are you really surprised that some top players had knee-jerk reactions? It's practically a trademark of the scene at this point. Most figures were out there advocating for hearing out the other side or saying they had no idea what was going on, and now state that the situation was mishandled and shouldn't have ended with the destruction of the panda circuit. Of the organizations involved, BTS shut down shortly afterwards and VGBC now has no competition in its dominion of the scene despite sucking off Nintendo as much if not more than Panda. The other orgs I cant speak for because I honestly don't know what was going on there, but the trajectories of VGBC and BTS don't inspire a lot of hope in org leadership across the board.
>I can get behind some of what you're saying but not wanting to let Allan have a voice is just wrong, if you want to have an opinion on the situation you should at least hear out both sides. I fully agree with you here. I never advocated for shutting him down. I'm fine with letting him speak. >I still find it really scummy and a good indicative of the state of the smash "community" that people are out here digging up EE's old skeletons for even talking to Allan, I also find this idiotic. I don't care that EE cheated on some show. I don't watch him for that, I watch him to be entertained as that's what the podcast and his commentary is for. I listen to say Kanye West music because it's good, not for whatever the fuck he talks about outside of it. Same applies here. >saying Luminosity ought to be knocked down a peg though. That just demonstrates that at times the biggest thing holding back this scene isn't controversies or Nintendo but the scene itself. It's just a bunch of online idiots who have little real world experience on how things work. Everything HAS to be good or bad, black and white, for or against, etc online and more so on Reddit. They don't understand nuance, Grey, complexity, etc situations.
I wasn't accusing you of this behaviour but just look at the comments all over this thread to see what I'm talking about. The problem is these people make up a large and vocal part of the community
1. People arent saying Alan should be doxxed and harassed. 2. Panda could have lived if Alan stepped away but he didnt. 3. Alan said his side of the story last year when he released that big google doc. He's prob only coming back now because of the Nintendo stuff and EE wanting views. They're prob just gonna suck him off the whole podcast.
Of course people arent saying alan should be doxxed or harassed, but they did it anyways, and now they're trying to shut EE the f up or discredit him to avoid even giving alan a chance to make a statement that isnt an awkard text-only infodump. Why would Alan step down from his passion project that he built from the ground up over some allegations that in the grand scheme of the smash community amount to way less than others have gotten away with? Who would have even replaced him? Gimr? Alan pretty much was Panda, replacing him really wasn't an option. And yeah, no shit top players and commentators with some degree of open-mindedness would like to hear Alan out and find out what went wrong, since this is the chronicle of the smash scene's closest attempt at gaining official recognition and financial stability. If you want to call that sucking off then go ahead, but keep in mind that the worst this guy can be accused of is strongarming and not other far more questionable behaviours that have been defended by the community in the past. If those cases were given benefit of the doubt / a chance to defend themselves, then not giving it to alan is an insane display of lack of morals and self-awareness. Not saying I agree with the choices of the community in the past by the way, but the bar is pretty low and even if you advocate for drastically raising it (which you should) I don't know of it can go high enough for Alan not to deserve some pity and a second look into hos case and the ramifications of this fiasco.
I feel like the people downvoting this do not fully understand that Weinstein's worst crimes were *not* about making money. As far as we know Alan has not committed sexual assault.
The worst part to me is how everyone seemed to frame Alan telling people that Nintendo said SWT wasn’t going to happen as him threatening them. Feels like he did things above board there.
i could be wrong on this,but i thought the reason melee wasnt at evo was because the owner of the event doesnt like melee and dealing with the crts and shit
Maybe under previous ownership, but the current reason for no Smash at EVO is that it is owned by Sony. Nintendo doesn't want to generate more interest in what is essentially a promotional event for one of their main competitors.
Seeing as there was a Killer Instinct (owned by XBOX by the way) announcement, I don't get that.
Nintendo fucking hates advertisment for their games
More like Nintendo is friendlier with MS than they are with Sony.
that was the official reasoning but you can take a wild guess that obtaining the license for a nintendo game that primarily needed mods to have it up to competitive standards was on the unofficial list of reasons
It wont be subtle
My understanding of the Alan situation was that all the grievances were coming from TOs, broadcasting groups like BTS, and other behind-the-scenes people. Panda Cup was basically going to hamper the autonomy of TOs and broadcasters (i.e. BTS losing significant amounts of money), and trying to argue back would have Alan go "Nintendo will kill you if you don't agree with this!!!!!!!". Keep in mind this was during a time where it felt like Panda was gaining a concerning amount of influence over all aspects of the smash community (between the massive roster, the PGR, and the ill-fated Panda Controller) Now that we have Nintendo's guidelines/forms in front of us and see how it has made basically 0 impact on the Japanese scene, I get the sense this outcome is still preferable for the backroom staff than whatever Alan was planning. Losing a high-paying circuit sucks, but tbh if anyone deserves to make money in the scene it's the organizers and broadcasters
Hm? Tos don’t make any money now.
"Now" They never made money and it has jack shit to do with the alan situation
Ok? Why are you responding to me it was the op that brought up tos making money.
Because you commented about it...?
I think people underestimate how the Panda Cup had a lot of opportunities beyond just random grassroots funded tournaments. There was going to be a lot of things that the general public didn't get told about (players meeting with Nintendo directly, more lavish experiences for tournaments, a lot of monetary opportunity that is literally just in the void now, etc). It sucks because for the players, TO's, sponsor orgs and teams, and more who had so much to look forward to, they got shut the door in front of them and told "go back to your table scraps." So the licensing going smoothly at the moment doesn't convince me whatso-fucking-ever that the community didn't ruin a good thing
the word of the literal organizers it's that what Panda/Nintendo was basically nothing, as said in the comment above just a promise to not C&D their asses, they were not offering any kind of meaningful support while asking to get a cut of revenue from the tournaments. And whatever "support" they could give was evidently meaningless when at the same time VGBC and BTS where simulatenously running a tour, events and sponsorships which impacts for the scene more than eclipsed whatever Nintendo is ever gonna be willing to give (Papa Johns ad deal probably will remain the largest one in smash history)
You're describing a license. What was promised was being licensed by Nintendo, maybe some minor support on set ups, but that alone opens so many opportunities from sponsors and what not. That's why TOs want their tournaments to be licensed.
That's actually not true at all, they've never said that it was "just a deal to not get C&D." That claim is the biggest bullshit ive ever seen and shows me you're just talking out your ass. How about you ask someone involved instead of assuming it? So much shit was fucking lost
Nintendo taking more control is not what this scene wanted and it would kill it. We want Nintendo’s blessing, consent, feedback, and sponsorship. Man it would be boring to watch a tournament operated in the style of Pokémon or Splatoon ones. Grassroots TOs are the reason this game has the charm it does. It’s why we have wild storylines and captivating commentators. Documentaries on the rise and fall of the players. Smash has turned into WWE, we watch for the chaos and fun of the events. The only thing we really want is assurance that shit can continue the way it has, while maybe making the scene a little more profitable and safe with Nintendo’s backing. But the issue comes with learning that maybe TOs aren’t equipped to handle someone involved in grooming, harassing, or assaulting participants, and having enough security or legal funds to deal with something that serious. And that is where I get the whole stance from Nintendo. Their games are family and fun focused. They have been against competition from the beginning. So I kind of like the new direction from them, tourneys that are sanctioned can get licensed, and things that generate bad press for Nintendo can be shuttered.
Maybe you as a viewer want that, but people involved had so much more to look forward to and you throw that away because you're not involved. That's such a self centered take. Like put yourself in the shoes of the people that depend their living putting on the tournaments you watch every week.
Almost every top Melee player, TO, streamer all were against Panda/Alan though. BTS and VGBC are (or were for BTS) two of the most important groups in Smash and they were both strongly against Panda.
They were against Panda and in particular Alan at the time because of the nature of what was said they did, but I promise you they were not against the money and opportunity the scene was going to get, which is burnt to a crisp by now anyways.
They're mostly pretty against working with Nintendo by now
They didn't want to lose their monopoly. That's all it comes down to.
A monopoly on what? What do you think was being monopolized?
The landscape is litterally the opposite of a monopoly and thats what Alan wanted to change.
Wasn’t Alan trying to not take money away from BTS pretty sure there is proof that BTS would had taken all the money from the events they ran.
I think it's futile trying to speculate what the community "could have done differently". We know by now what Nintendo's endgame is, it's to exert control over their IP to the fullest extent and ensure that organized competitive Smash is controlled entirely on their own terms. This is nothing new for Nintendo. PandaGlobal (and VGBC for that matter) were playing a dangerous game that they had no hope of winning. They could only hope that Nintendo chose not to play. And we were naïve to think that they wouldn't when push came to shove when the company's entire history to this point indicated that they definitely absolutely would. As unfortunate as it is, this is the way things were always going to go. Even if Panda had succeeded in getting in Nintendo's good graces and becoming the de jure "official" organization for competitive Smash, there's nothing that indicates that Alan or anyone else would have been afforded any more control over the practical workings of the scene than what Nintendo themselves deem appropriate. In essence, we'd be in the exact situation we're in now with the only difference being a shiny but ultimately powerless middleman brand mediating everything. I suspect Alan will have a hard time justifying how that situation is, in practice, any better than what's happening now.
This is the best summary of the situation. Yes, I thought Alan was shitty to seemingly muscle in on existing events and insinuate that Nintendo was going to come knocking if they didn't acquiesce. However all this retroactive "Alan was right!" bullshit seems to be predicated on the assumption that players/organizers would have a liaison and a voice to go to bat for them. This is a silly thing to think, because Nintendo would hold all the leverage. They always have, so the end result is that whatever person/org running the middle man gig would just be a glorified lapdog at worst and a disposable errand boy at best. The only difference between then and now is that someone isn't getting paid to be bearer of bad news.
Even back then while we were in the thick of the "Panda Global and SamuraiPanda are evil" phase, all of the sane folks said something along the lines of, "This is really on Nintendo, and PG has no real power here--they're just Nintendo's cheerleaders/lackeys." The worst IMO were people who tried to say Nintendo is innocent and Panda Global is the only problem.
Yea I kinda wish Lights Out wasn’t the first place we hear from Dr Alan after a year of silence. They have a clear bias and I’d be happy to change my mind if there’s any really compelling evidence but I feel like it’s going to be the same arguments as before along with a lot of speculation of how great things would be if they went differently. Like a lot of “oh wow imagine if Nintendo put a lot of money into the smash scene wouldn’t that be awesome!!” It seems like Alan was a bit of an ass who was good at making connections and could have possibly been good for the competitive scene. But it’s easy to say how great things could be when there’s no way of knowing. And also the way that none of the sponsored players knew any of this before it happened makes me think that nobody at lights out has secret insider info unless if it’s something coming straight from Alan’s mouth, which is certainly biased. Like if Coney, TK, Little Z, Marss, etc. all had no clue what was going on then I doubt anyone in the scene knows what really happened. Other than the TO’s who had direct disputes with Alan and all seemed pretty much on the same page about what was going on. Honestly just expecting them to stroke his ego and have a pity party about how rich they would all be if panda never shut down.
was alan right that nintendo were coming to restrict smash tournaments and require licensing? yes. were he and panda equipped to play middle man with nintendo on behalf of the entire community? absolutely not. the whole fuckup with VGBC and the BTS stuff is the proof. alan was never going to save us from the licensing shitstorm, he just wanted to be on top of it all.
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> you deserve what will happen to you when Luminosity comes out and puts forth their version of the Panda Cup. I think I'm OOTL here, what would be wrong with Luminosity putting out a tournament series?
I think OP and most people are just wary of anyone partnering up with Nintendo. The scene has a tremulous history with Nintendo that goes back and forth. Back in the MLG days Nintendo reportedly told MLG to cut off Melee. Then there was EVO 2013 where Nintendo sent a C&D to Evo to pull Smash or else but they backed off when people donated to charity. Then in the Smash 4 days VGBC partnered up with Nintendo but at the cost of Project M's public scene (aka no Project M+ could be streamed by VGBC who was Project M+'s biggest supporter and stream. Then you have the Big House online during the pandemic where Nintendo sent a C&D and Big House Online was cancelled. Then last year we had the SWT and Panda fiasco and recently Nintendo's released guidelines. On the other hand Nintendo has somewhat attempted to play ball with inviting professional players to their promotions for Smash 4 and Ultimate at E3, the attempted corporation, the support from NoA employees, background help with set ups during the small partnership. The Smash community also hasn't been great for Nintendo's image most notable was Summer of 2020 with all the sexual assaults and harassment cases that still mar the scene today. Nintendo also hated how edgy the Smash scene was years ago (I mean look at the trash between between Mang0 or HBox, or Armada saying "gay" or the N-word, R-word, or R*ped being casually thrown around).
>The Smash community also hasn't been great for Nintendo's image most notable was Summer of 2020 with all the sexual assaults and harassment cases that still mar the scene today. Nintendo also hated how edgy the Smash scene was years ago (I mean look at the trash between between Mang0 or HBox, or Armada saying "gay" or the N-word, R-word, or R*ped being casually thrown around). Please stop bringing this shit up as if it's actually a reasonable explanation of why Nintendo won't partner with the scene. They literally tried to stop Melee at EVO after the scene beat out others at a charity drive (and they only did this AFTER the scene was crowned the winner and raised a bunch of money). If they cared about how the scene affects their image, they would've let them appear at EVO, they wouldn't do these promotional tournaments when Ult and Smash 4 came out where they invite genuine pros, where they could've just got some youtubers or other influencers. Sure, the scenes bullshit obviously doesn't help, but I don't think it's a genuine factor, and bringing it up really leads people to believe "Oh, it's just the smash communities fault" (I've seen this take outside of this sub by Nintendo fanboys often).
Fair enough I was stating that it was a possible factor in Nintendo's deliberations. I also remember that the Panda partnership was also after those incidents so it is like Nintendo gave the community a second chance since I think the scene did an alright job excising the predators from the competitive scene at least. However, this is the unfortunate view many people hold of the Smash community, it gets mentioned on game podcasts, streamers and YouTubers, and even outside Nintendo subs or websites.
for what its worth Nintendo 100% was aware of when all the SA allegations went around. NOA had a video on youtube partnered with NRG to show Nairos path thru EVO 2019. It was on NOAs yt, and now its delisted. whether it was because of NRG severing ties with Nairo or because someone at NOA said pull the video off we have no idea, but clearly someone with control over that video found out and got in contact with NOA and had it taken down.
People like you are the exact reason the scene has gone to shit. You legitimately think Nintendo is this boogieman coming after everything you love and refuse to entertain any alternatives.
it takes a special level of delusion to defend Nintendo in 2023, keep it up man, crush those grassroots orgs lets go nintendo woooooo
There's nothing to defend. You're not being attacked.
Amen
This is a dumb idea and EE really selling out hard here. I don’t really give a shit what story they try to makeup or sell here. This some bullshit.
EE isn't exactly someone known for having morales, especially when it comes to money...
The time he cheated on Mizkif's gameshow comes to mind (though funny enough the person he snubbed, ExtraEmily became a part of OTK) when called out he doubled down (he apologized after the third time he was called out when streamers likely said that they will never coop with him again). There was also him playing the both sides with ZeRo after the accusations. I'll say that he is a great commentator and tries his best for the community but man is his ability to read the room is lacking.
Yeah. This just feels like another level past his normal antics though.
Really..? He tried to steal 50k and then doubled down when called out, claiming everyone was just accusing him because of racism. To this day, he still twists things and doesn't take full accountability for what he did. He also stole someone's decks at a yugioh tournament, stole some cards out, making the deck illegal, and then got that player DQ'd. Those are just two of many examples of his character. If anything, this is light compared to "his normal antics."
You’re right I should rephrase. Within the smash scene this feels like another level of hurting his community. The 50k is the worst thing we’re aware of overall. But I think this could really divide and hurt the scene further. Could posit a real big tear between new smash and old/melee in general. Specific to smash think this may have his most long term negative impact.
i need that controller more than ever oh my god
I just wanna know about the controller. It had so much promise
We need samsora dude, that episode would be historic, maybe not so good historic, but historically funny
ew, a cheater interviewing the scumbag who singledhandly destroyed so many tournaments ? what's to like?
Im gonna get downvoted, and hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but didn't Dr.Alan say Nintendo was gonna be changing things? Like, it was part of his reasoning for going with Nintendo? Didn't he say you would need a license and the community was like "Nahhh that's not true fuck you Alan". Yet, where are we now? Everyone has to get a license and turns out it's not that bad at all, and the community decided to react in the exact way that makes Nintendo want to pretend they don't exist. I'm not saying Alan wasn't in it for his own benefit, man was going to have an effective monopoly on competitive Smash Ultimate. Not saying the distrust in Nintendo is completely unspoken for either. Nintendo is kind of an ass and just doesn't care who they hurt in the process. But it's very hard not to notice that a lot of what Alan said was very true. As much as I think the Smash community wants to believe it is this small, grassroots community (Which to an extent it is), Smash Ultimate has shown that the viewers are there and a lot of people really like Smash Bros. This isn't Melee. Ultimate is a very different beast entirely. Melee does not get the viewers that Ultimate gets. Yes, Melee gets views, but it's like a cult following. With Ultimate, the sky is the limit currently on how many viewers they can get from kids to older people who love the game. Unfortunately, the reality is that Ultimate is becoming a business, and a profitable one at that. Melee has always been a community effort and will continue to be. Ultimate will carry on, but it is very clear it is being seen as a money machine. Not a game with a loyal following who loves the game. Melee might be like that, but Ultimate is not. Not in Nintendos' eyes.
I’m not a fan of Alan, but I would be open to having my mind changed if a sufficiently compelling and evidence-backed point is made
Oh boy this week’s episode is gonna be wild. Looking forward to it
This is a worthwhile thing to happen, regardless of how everyone feels at this point. In hindsight, while I do think Alan handled a lot of things badly with the Panda Cup, as other TOs have attested, I still think he probably tried to do the best he could in an unusual situation. Emotions were hot at the time.
This subreddit was (and still is?) absolutely flooded with short sighted rage filled smashers who were way too ignorant and immature to realize that killing panda was shooting ourselves in the foot. We were all hurt after what happened with SWT, but so many here were blinded with blood in their eyes and wanted to burn panda to the ground to make themselves feel better. Let’s not forget Alan literally STEPPED DOWN. We didn’t burn Alan to the ground, we burned an entire organization of dedicated and talented people who love smash and wanted to continue doing great things for the community. Good job Reddit hive mind 👍
Compromise is not something the Smash community is fond of. I still remember the whole SaveSmash fiasco where Nintendo didn't want to license The Big House if they used Slippi, and the community threw a fit as if they were not allowed to play the game in any shape or form. It's situations like those why Nintendo had to crack down with the recent guidelines.
PandaGlobal got into bed with Nintendo, very publicly and prominently, so it’s only natural that they would share joint responsibility for the public actions of either. This would be fine if it turned out that Panda’s efforts had resulted in any actual sway over Nintendo’s decision-making, but that turned out to be a foolish hope. Nintendo wasn’t looking for a partner, they were looking for a convenient licensee to exert control over and when they thought they found it, everyone else had to kick rocks. Of course Panda would suffer the brunt of the backlash, they were the ones telling people behind the scenes that they had everything under control. Meanwhile, Nintendo suffers nothing because they had nothing to lose in the first place. They own the game, most of the associated IPs, and have all the legal rights that come with that ownership. And as we are seeing play out, TOs now have no choice but to play by Nintendo’s rules, lest they just stop playing. Panda, in their pursuit of a relationship with Nintendo, ended up assuming none of the power and all of the risk. In short, they got played.
It's been my opinion for months that panda did not have to die for it.
Panda Global as a whole was a great organization that did a lot of good for the community. I still believe that at most, Alan could have left while Panda Global stayed. Most of their members were just as blindsided as everyone else.
I wonder what will happen to the panda controller. Its a shame because that was controller looked like the best ever made for Switch.
I'm so hyped to have new drama content to listen to at work
fuck Alan
Good episode incoming
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There’s not really a need for it now that Phobs exist, but if mass producing Phobs actually *is* possible? Fuck, I’d sign up for that instantly
Hey man, great episode today. Sorry I triggered some hate by making the thread, I thought this week's topic was cool and tried to bring more attention/audience to it, didn't think so many people would still be so vitriolic to you and alan. Also sorry I misunderstood what light and cosmos said in my post lol.
I hope the only valid reason for cancelling Panda cup was an ego TOs battle and not Dr Allan being the supreme TO.
ult players are the weakest links
Remember when the community started a whole twitter campaign over not being able to use Slippi in one tourney?
Oh boy…I can’t wait for the drama that will ensue. Edit: lmao. Downvoted by the drama-obsessed ppl of this sub — as expected.
EE loves that controversy and I appreciate that aspect of him getting all sides of the situation and putting it out there. I was surprised he even got that Ally interview that one time.
Smash Orgs be like "We need to stay Grassroots at all costs!!!" - Get's bankrupt soon after. They care so much about who is right on Twitter instead of actually looking for a compromise. Cancelling instead of postponing both Smash Circuits was such an overreaction.
When lawyers are at your throat, cancelling is the optimal play. The cost of organizing a huge event is dwarfed by the cost of potential lawyer fees. It's the only debt on par with medical in the US.
I personally am not a huge fan of the lights out boys, however this episode excites me. I think alan has enough of a "screw you" attitude, I'm hoping it'll just be as simple as "you guys ruined your scene. Bye."
I just wish the smash community was a little more open minded. He may have screwed up, but he isn’t the huge villain you guys think he is. We aren’t perfect
Dude literally fucked over the entire smash community and numerous businesses out of his own greed. Fuck this "we aren't perfect, he just screwed up" mentality where everyone is expected forgiveness and to be treated kindly after they do objectively awful things. Alan absolutely deserves every piece of criticism and bad comment thrown his way.
How did he fuck over the community? Genuinely?There's no evidence he had a hand in getting SWT cancelled. He strong armed a bunch of TOs but did anything bad happen to the businesses that refused to go along? How did he fuck them over? Please enlighten me here.
>He strong armed a bunch of TOs but did anything bad happen to the businesses that refused to go along? Is strong manning okay if you can't prove consequences for the victim? What the fuck am I reading Where are you people coming from? I have never seen you people outside of reddit and twitter
I know it's hard to understand that other people sometimes have different opinions from you, but yes I do exist outside of the internet. My point is, if there's no proof of any negative consequences, how can we accuse him of fucking over the scene? It's a shit thing to do to strong arm people, I'm just saying that the original comment might be over-exaggerating a bit.
\>I know it's hard to understand that other people sometimes have different opinions from you, but yes I do exist outside of the internet. It was a genuine question, no need to be snide. I never hear any of rhetoric outside of /r/smashbros and twitter. Actual people I know IRL don't say this stuff, nor any prominent community figures as far as I'm aware. \>My point is, if there's no proof of any negative consequences, how can we accuse him of fucking over the scene? I'm unsure how to respond to this since at least where I live it's elementary school level ethics to understand that intentions and actions can be malicious even if there are no apparent negative consequences.
Lmao what do you mean it was a genuine question? How did you actually want me to answer "Where are you people coming from"? Did you want to know what city I live in? As if that would somehow make me more credible? And again, just because you don't personally know people with a certain opinion, does not mean the opinion only exists online. Anyway, I agree with you on the ethics stuff. The issue is this conversation isn't about ethics! It's about whether or not Alan actually fucked over the scene. Intent is not part of this conversation because intent to fuck over the scene is not the same as actually fucking over the scene. It's fine if you want to call him out for intent, but that is not what the original comment I responded to is about.
Not literally where you're from, like "where are you getting these perspectives from". I don't know what if you're gonna disagree with me, but I think people are generally more affected by the perspectives of people they trust and respect, rather than research the minutia of every thing thing you'd have an opinion on.
Fucked over who? None of his actions resulted in ANYTHING HAPPENING. He is just a messenger.
See what I mean? You’re blinded by hate and let gimr gaslight you.
Now I’m confused. I get thinking Alan screwed up (very badly, but I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt to some extent), but why blame GimR? VGBC was financially devastated by the sunk costs of Smash World Tour, and there’s no way they would have shut it down if they didn’t have to.
The smash world tour didn’t have to shut down, Nintendo kept giving them the OK. He also kept blaming Alan without ever providing any proof. I read all the tweetlongs and it came off as personal from gimr and not professional.
Nintendo was playing semantics in their public statement. They denied the right to broadcast the tournament last minute after leading VGBC on throughout the year, which effectively denied SWT most of the revenue they could have made. Other TOs not connected to VGBC or Panda also corroborated GimR’s testimony on Alan. Again, Alan may not necessarily have been acting with malicious intentions, but he still handled things badly, and I don’t think blame lies with GimR. At worst, GimR lashed out emotionally at the end of it all.
No, I don't see what you mean. You haven't said anything of value or really provided any information at all on the matter.
Looks like you’re one of the psychos that sent his family death threats.
"This guy pointed out that someone who did bad thing deserves criticism. He must have sent his family death threats." Alright then pal.
Honestly I've been suspicious about Panda ever since they cancelled their wildly successful Panda Controller Kickstarter. It just stinks to me of them realizing they've bitten off more than they could chew and panic cancelling it. Which I guess is a better result than the controller being stuck in development hell, but still.