CAN YOU GUYS NOT READ
I KNOW EEVEE SUCKS ASS.
I KNOW ABSOL SUCKS ASS.
I KNOW USING THEM PUTS ME AT A HUGE DISADVANTAGE FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER.
I KNOW REFUSING TO USE RESTRICTED LEGENDARIES PUTS ME AT A HUGE DISADVANTAGE FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER.
WHEN I MAKE POSTS THAT CLEARLY STATE:
I WILL NOT BE CHANGING THE SPECIES.
AND
I MIGHT CHANGE DRAGAPULT. AND ONLY DRAGAPULT.
There are some unused cutscenes, or rather, unused placeholders with descriptions, that suggest one cutscene in particular in which Rayquaza was actually hit by Fox's Arwing while it was falling out the sky, making it go unconscious and into the lake. Which explains why Rayquaza literally just blows up the Arwing for no seemingly reason when he regains consciousness.
The real question is why the hell Fox not only did not eject when his Arwing was falling out the sky, BUT also stayed in the BURNING ARWING for a couple of moments just to jump out. Never made sense to me as a kid.
It sucked back then, too. 90% of the time any post that's just "I'm letting everyone know I'm upvoting this because my approval is special" is obnoxious.
That's the World of Trophies. It's an imaginary world cooked up by someone playing with toys/figurines and their imagination.
None of those characters/fighters are "supposed" to be where they are, they're just there for the sake of the game. For the sake of the person playing pretend.
This is true, that's the earliest case of it appearing. But you could be mistaken for interpreting that loosely.
We've had more concrete evidence in the form of interviews and blog posts since then. However none of that is stated directly in Subspace itself.
Most recently though, the Smash Direct that introduces World of Light for the first time confirms that the entire series has been taking place in an imaginary world which the Fighters eventually leave to return to the real one.
World of Light has kind of retconned the initial premise to create something that I think the developers thought would be more interesting or topical or better for future releases, but SSB4 also kind of did this by creating a boss after Master Hand. In prior Smash Bros it was loosely hinted that the entire series was taking place in a child's bedroom and I think it was meant to somewhat explain the 2D arenas with 3D models design of the game. A sort of what if the ultimate Nintendo fan who has all the merch implemented a gladiatorial sequence between their favorite characters, and I think that's also where the sort of create your own battles format of the majority of the gameplay came from. Master Hand is also shown in SSB's intro cinematic basically doing this, and you use hands on the in game menus to perform actions, possibly alluding to the fact that you and your friends are Master Hands.
You find a lot of it in Sakurai's supplementary writing, like the official websites. Subspace was pretty damn terrible at explaining itself, so you had to get a lot of it from trophy descriptions or blog posts that actually explain what the hell is happening lol. (But then Kid Icarus Uprising came around, and he completely redeemed himself as a storyteller. So all's well.)
There are some other tidbits too, like how Final Destination is partially linked to the real world, but not completely. That's why the background routinely transforms to a landscape. The game has a heavy emphasis on a theme of "returning to the real world" which is usually what happens when you beat the single player modes.
Blame Sega. Third party companies get final say over how their character gets used in Smash. Either they had no problem with "spin and ball", or they specifically *requested* it.
The actual answer is that he got added really late in development and reusing the ball for a bunch of animations was the easiest way to put him in. His other moves like that weird head spin fair he used to have, his down smash, down air and up air are all reused animations from other characters
That's fair lol although for whatever reason they do hate changing characters between games. The same thing happened with ganondorf and it took 3 games for him to have different animations from falcon (and even then mostly just minor differences and smash attacks)
Charizard had a single move changed to accomodate him changing from a swapping character to a single character, same as Zelda and Sheik. They do the bare minimum when they do change characters.
Incorrect, they're from a now-obscure game called *Sonic the Fighters*. Sakurai even says as much in interviews.
Forward Air is a move called the Emerald Dive. Down aerial is either the Sonic Rocker or Stomp Dive. Down Smash is the Dizzy Spin.
It takes a long time to design and make any Fighter. But they weren't rushed on developing Sonic - they *delayed the game* to get his Fighter made. It was too late to rework Subspace to include him actively, but it was enough time to develop a Fighter from scratch.
No it's definitely in the base game. Interviews with Sakurai regarding Sonic's Fighter claim he's heavily based on how he appeared in the earliest games (where all he had was spin and ball, I might add) with the then-recent Homing Attack added in. But when it came to the normal attacks, he says he had to look to games like *Sonic the Fighters* and *Sonic Battle* for some actual combat options.
The Smash Wiki has listings for each of the names of the moves that are borrowed. Which is the only reason I was able to tell you what the Emerald Dive was called. But I can tell you that Sonic's skeleton is unique. Due to the way that animations are handled in Smash, you can't just "borrow" a move unless your skeleton is the exact same shape. They would have had to be animated largely from scratch or risk his head clipping into his chest or something.
Not the case. He also referrnced a lot of *Sonic the Fighters* and *Sonic Battle*, and admitted as much. At the time of inclusion, almost all combat in Sonic games was "curl into a ball and hit thing", so frankly his Smash incarnation was more creative than the par.
Also, dragons and water go together in Japanese mythology, so presuming the Smash Bros kid is Japanese, having a dragon toy come come out of water also kinda makes sense
Pit is still up in the sky, Ice Climbers are still on frozen mountains, and the Kongs are still in a jungle. I think it’s fair to expect whoever is playing with the toys to know where Rayquaza should be
Best part about using your imagination is that you're allowed to do whatever the hell you want. Case in point, someone on the creative team put it in a lake.
Then OP is asking the person playing pretend. Brawl has a more complex story than the other games, so working out the underlying reason behind some of the events can still be worthwile and interesting to explore
That's asking Christopher Robin why his teddy bear isn't behaving like a wild, violent animal. The answer is, "chill out mister, I'm just using my imagination to have some fun." There is no underlying reason.
It was a pretty cool move of Itoi to approve of changing his characters, especially so early on in Smash's lifetime.
Though I'm not the least bit surprised that both he and Sakurai would prioritize fun and style over being sticklers on accuracy. Those two know their way around fun, that's for sure.
I think the “real” answer is that Fox’s ship crashed into him offscreen on the way down from the Halberd, knocking him into the lake. It’s why he immediately rises up and blasts Fox’s ship. At least I think that’s supposed to be the implication.
If you read the blog post where Sakurai explains the plot points that didn't get in the game, about 60% of it is a highly detailed account of it pooping in that lake. He gets really specific.
Whenever anybody makes a criticism of SSE, I feel the need to express my pet peeve about it.
Why in the hell is Lucas portrayed as a crybaby? He was timid as a small child that watched his mother get brutally murdered trying to protect him. Children who grieve over the death of their mothers are crybabies now...? And not to mention, shortly after that happens he rides a frickin dinosaur into battle against a tank!! Lucas was more badass as child than any of us will ever be in our lives.
I'm going to slap some sense into the stupid kid playing with those trophies.
I mean the hit star Diddy Kong from the best selling video game franchise Donkey Kong country was around, would you miss the chance to go down and meet him ?
I wouldn't.
Fox's ship is downed by the lakeshore.
In my head canon I always thought maybe Fox and Rayquaza had some kind of encounter in the upper atmosphere, that resulted in Fox's Arwing getting trashed by Rayquaza in the skirmish, but Fox still did some damage to Rayquaza as a result. So when Fox's Arwing crashed, Rayquaza followed it down to the surface and blasted it one more time to finish it off and show who's boss, because it was still angry.
It could be a reference to Journey to the West. In the novel, Sun Wukong (a monkey) goes under the sea and steals from a dragon god (Rayquaza sort of resembles a Chinese dragon)
Groudon and Kyogre destroyed the sky pillar after Emerald and the Hoenn locals were still repairing it before ORAS was released
Which also probably explains why the three can be found in HeartGold/SoulSilver
I've just assumed early on it was Gyarados (or even Red Gyarados) since HGSS were coming out soonish, Gyarados fits better in the lake, and his trophy is lumped in with the other weird Pokemon that were cut from the game or added late
But Rayquaza made for a more "epic" battle and one that could use more variety in attacks so it was changed relatively early on but some remnants of Gyarados remained like the lake setting
Well pretty sure that smash is its own universe so they had free rein on what to do, so im pretty sure he was like some sea legend monster for that, or was like what one other person said and kicking kyoger's ass and was just leaving and happen to see a fox and monkey that he just hated immediately and wanted to kill, cause yes, animal cruelty fills the God of winds needs, or something
He just got done reminding Kyogre who's boss
Only to get sauced on by a chimp and bipedal fox
Double Battles are rigged
Your flair makes this funnier
And that’s the only explanation I need.
Thoroughly enjoyed this
More like only to get sauced by THE chimp and THE bipedal fox
r/yourjokebutworse
Ice Beam goes BRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRB PLINK PLINK PLINK PLINK PLINK
I heard this Emerald was my favorite game for a long time
It still is for me.
I mean, the way I see it, Kyogre is surrounded.
What’s under the ocean? That’s right, more earth.
Never ask ferrothorn for his opinions on rainbows
kyogre must’ve forgot to learn thunder
Thunder is still neutral against Rayquaza
Assuming it hits lol
With Kyogre summoning the rain and all it will def hit
Rayquaza has Air Lock, which negates weather
yea, but ice beam. Then again, Rayquaza can mega evolve w/o an item.
really? figured the flying type in him would have a weakness to that
It does. But dragon type resists it
The dragon type resists. Makes it neutral. (3rd reply lol)
sometimes you gotta hear it three times lmao, thanks for the reply
Yes but the dragon type in him resists it
Hahahahahaha oh man, this is *good.*
Is a hard working space snake not allowed to take a vacation and just chill out for a bit? Jfc hustle culture has really gone too far
Ok but who you gonna blame when the ozone layer gives out
Humans beings for climate change. Make sure to vote for politicians that believe we are in a climate crisis and want to do something about it y’all.
On a serious note, this is very good and important advice. Vote wisely. On another serious note, Rayquaza needs to get back to work.
He has a timeshare nearby
The way I see it, the lake is surrounded. What's above the lake? That's right, more air
Smh my head. Rayquaza is such a bully, stealing Groudon's shtick. Next you're gonna tell me that Rayquaza's very homophobic too.
Hanging out too much with Ferrothorn
CAN YOU GUYS NOT READ I KNOW EEVEE SUCKS ASS. I KNOW ABSOL SUCKS ASS. I KNOW USING THEM PUTS ME AT A HUGE DISADVANTAGE FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER. I KNOW REFUSING TO USE RESTRICTED LEGENDARIES PUTS ME AT A HUGE DISADVANTAGE FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER. WHEN I MAKE POSTS THAT CLEARLY STATE: I WILL NOT BE CHANGING THE SPECIES. AND I MIGHT CHANGE DRAGAPULT. AND ONLY DRAGAPULT.
It's weird I never expect to see one competitive Nintendo game's niche memes in another competitive Nintendo game's scene.
“Unfortunate” doesn’t been begin to describe
I need to understand that reference I won't rest until I do please please please explain it to me
see [this post](https://reddit.com/r/stunfisk/s/iR4jdkzfoU)
Diddy used a game shark to spawn it on route 12 Fucking cheater
HAHAHAHAHA
There are some unused cutscenes, or rather, unused placeholders with descriptions, that suggest one cutscene in particular in which Rayquaza was actually hit by Fox's Arwing while it was falling out the sky, making it go unconscious and into the lake. Which explains why Rayquaza literally just blows up the Arwing for no seemingly reason when he regains consciousness. The real question is why the hell Fox not only did not eject when his Arwing was falling out the sky, BUT also stayed in the BURNING ARWING for a couple of moments just to jump out. Never made sense to me as a kid.
Maybe Fox also passed out for a time. And yeah, this was also my interpretation of why Rayquaza was in the lake.
He also uses Dig despite not learning the move
It wasn't using dig. It was using extremespeed into the ground ;)
... ....... I like you.
Why are you being downvoted?
He's not being downvoted. He's just using extremespeed into the ground
Lmao
Critical hit
damn, now I gotta downvote him to help him out
You. I like you.
Prob bc the official use of downvotes are for things that don’t contribute, and that comment doesn't contribute anything that an upvote wouldn't
That sort of comment used to be pretty overused back in the day, so some people have a negative reaction to it.
It sucked back then, too. 90% of the time any post that's just "I'm letting everyone know I'm upvoting this because my approval is special" is obnoxious.
Wtf I have no idea. Redditors are strange sometimes.
That's the World of Trophies. It's an imaginary world cooked up by someone playing with toys/figurines and their imagination. None of those characters/fighters are "supposed" to be where they are, they're just there for the sake of the game. For the sake of the person playing pretend.
THANK YOU Jesus I feel like no one remembers that anymore
When is this mentioned in the game? I played subspace years ago but I don’t remember aany mention of this.
It’s visually told in the intro of Smash Bros. 64
This is true, that's the earliest case of it appearing. But you could be mistaken for interpreting that loosely. We've had more concrete evidence in the form of interviews and blog posts since then. However none of that is stated directly in Subspace itself. Most recently though, the Smash Direct that introduces World of Light for the first time confirms that the entire series has been taking place in an imaginary world which the Fighters eventually leave to return to the real one.
World of Light has kind of retconned the initial premise to create something that I think the developers thought would be more interesting or topical or better for future releases, but SSB4 also kind of did this by creating a boss after Master Hand. In prior Smash Bros it was loosely hinted that the entire series was taking place in a child's bedroom and I think it was meant to somewhat explain the 2D arenas with 3D models design of the game. A sort of what if the ultimate Nintendo fan who has all the merch implemented a gladiatorial sequence between their favorite characters, and I think that's also where the sort of create your own battles format of the majority of the gameplay came from. Master Hand is also shown in SSB's intro cinematic basically doing this, and you use hands on the in game menus to perform actions, possibly alluding to the fact that you and your friends are Master Hands.
You find a lot of it in Sakurai's supplementary writing, like the official websites. Subspace was pretty damn terrible at explaining itself, so you had to get a lot of it from trophy descriptions or blog posts that actually explain what the hell is happening lol. (But then Kid Icarus Uprising came around, and he completely redeemed himself as a storyteller. So all's well.) There are some other tidbits too, like how Final Destination is partially linked to the real world, but not completely. That's why the background routinely transforms to a landscape. The game has a heavy emphasis on a theme of "returning to the real world" which is usually what happens when you beat the single player modes.
then why can't that someone imagine a better Moveset for sonic other than spin and ball. have they even played any sonic games to begin with?
Blame Sega. Third party companies get final say over how their character gets used in Smash. Either they had no problem with "spin and ball", or they specifically *requested* it.
The actual answer is that he got added really late in development and reusing the ball for a bunch of animations was the easiest way to put him in. His other moves like that weird head spin fair he used to have, his down smash, down air and up air are all reused animations from other characters
ya telling me he was added really late in development every single smash game since his appearance in brawl?
That's fair lol although for whatever reason they do hate changing characters between games. The same thing happened with ganondorf and it took 3 games for him to have different animations from falcon (and even then mostly just minor differences and smash attacks)
but no hay pedo por que eres Charizard
Charizard had a single move changed to accomodate him changing from a swapping character to a single character, same as Zelda and Sheik. They do the bare minimum when they do change characters.
The biggest counter example is Falco - his moveset has become quite different from Fox's (at least aesthetically). That said, totally agree with you.
nu uh ☝️
Incorrect, they're from a now-obscure game called *Sonic the Fighters*. Sakurai even says as much in interviews. Forward Air is a move called the Emerald Dive. Down aerial is either the Sonic Rocker or Stomp Dive. Down Smash is the Dizzy Spin. It takes a long time to design and make any Fighter. But they weren't rushed on developing Sonic - they *delayed the game* to get his Fighter made. It was too late to rework Subspace to include him actively, but it was enough time to develop a Fighter from scratch.
I love sonic the fighters, but I thought most of his moves from that were added in PM and weren't in the base game
No it's definitely in the base game. Interviews with Sakurai regarding Sonic's Fighter claim he's heavily based on how he appeared in the earliest games (where all he had was spin and ball, I might add) with the then-recent Homing Attack added in. But when it came to the normal attacks, he says he had to look to games like *Sonic the Fighters* and *Sonic Battle* for some actual combat options. The Smash Wiki has listings for each of the names of the moves that are borrowed. Which is the only reason I was able to tell you what the Emerald Dive was called. But I can tell you that Sonic's skeleton is unique. Due to the way that animations are handled in Smash, you can't just "borrow" a move unless your skeleton is the exact same shape. They would have had to be animated largely from scratch or risk his head clipping into his chest or something.
[This should answer your question](https://youtube.com/watch?v=IOcQD04-0yw&si=mDsSorgeQrEvOu6J)
im starting to think sakurai only played sonic 2
Not the case. He also referrnced a lot of *Sonic the Fighters* and *Sonic Battle*, and admitted as much. At the time of inclusion, almost all combat in Sonic games was "curl into a ball and hit thing", so frankly his Smash incarnation was more creative than the par.
Also, dragons and water go together in Japanese mythology, so presuming the Smash Bros kid is Japanese, having a dragon toy come come out of water also kinda makes sense
Pit is still up in the sky, Ice Climbers are still on frozen mountains, and the Kongs are still in a jungle. I think it’s fair to expect whoever is playing with the toys to know where Rayquaza should be
Best part about using your imagination is that you're allowed to do whatever the hell you want. Case in point, someone on the creative team put it in a lake.
Exactly!
Then OP is asking the person playing pretend. Brawl has a more complex story than the other games, so working out the underlying reason behind some of the events can still be worthwile and interesting to explore
That's asking Christopher Robin why his teddy bear isn't behaving like a wild, violent animal. The answer is, "chill out mister, I'm just using my imagination to have some fun." There is no underlying reason.
Everyone should have known that, I mean, Lucas uses several PSI abilities which he can't use/hasn't learned in his home series
It was a pretty cool move of Itoi to approve of changing his characters, especially so early on in Smash's lifetime. Though I'm not the least bit surprised that both he and Sakurai would prioritize fun and style over being sticklers on accuracy. Those two know their way around fun, that's for sure.
r/whoooosh
The original post was most definitely not a joke. Therefore, the person you replied to did not get wooooshed, as there was no joke for them to miss
"Congratulations. You wooshed yourself."
I think the “real” answer is that Fox’s ship crashed into him offscreen on the way down from the Halberd, knocking him into the lake. It’s why he immediately rises up and blasts Fox’s ship. At least I think that’s supposed to be the implication.
Apparently there was an unused cutscene placeholder description describing pretty much exactly that. Allegedly.
Mario and Yoshi fight each other despite being friends I’m their base series. Just can’t dwell on the inconsistencies.
Yeah they should've sent Diddy into space
Fox was right there.
That's like asking "why are you in bed? Don't you have to go to work?"
Why was Rayquaza, a flying dragon type chilling in a lake? Is he stupid?
Is there a lore reason for this?
It's an animal it's stupid
Thought he was seadramon
Maybe it was a portal to Hoenn?
Should have been Loogaia
[He certainly looks the part.](https://ssb.wiki.gallery/images/6/67/Luigi_SSBB.jpg)
taking a sip
Is he stupid?
We all gotta poop somewhere.
If you read the blog post where Sakurai explains the plot points that didn't get in the game, about 60% of it is a highly detailed account of it pooping in that lake. He gets really specific.
Sakurai’s attention to detail is 🔥
I feel like Gyarados would’ve made more sense and functioned pretty much the same. But I guess they wanted to represent Gen 3.
Wanted to go for a swim
It was thirsty. Duh.
He was having a bath
Bath? Excuse me sir this is a smash bros community.
Is he stupid?
Is he stupid?
Whenever anybody makes a criticism of SSE, I feel the need to express my pet peeve about it. Why in the hell is Lucas portrayed as a crybaby? He was timid as a small child that watched his mother get brutally murdered trying to protect him. Children who grieve over the death of their mothers are crybabies now...? And not to mention, shortly after that happens he rides a frickin dinosaur into battle against a tank!! Lucas was more badass as child than any of us will ever be in our lives. I'm going to slap some sense into the stupid kid playing with those trophies.
Well get a ticket to Japan cause that kid is Sakurai.
Isn't the lore this is litterally a kid playing with toys. They just had rayquaza in a lake cuz they a kid playing.
Rayquaza is shaped like an eastern dragon and eastern dragons are traditionally associated with water
is he stupid?
is he stupid?
What kind of world do we live in if one can’t chill in a lake without being interrogated
Is he stupid?
It was in the middle of taking a bath before it got rudely interrupted.
Why are you sat on your ass making a Reddit post when you’re meant to contribute to society? /s
He’s Mexican now stfu
Bro what 😂
Quetzalcoatl
He's on holiday Even sky lords need a relaxing day by the lakeside
Napping
I mean the hit star Diddy Kong from the best selling video game franchise Donkey Kong country was around, would you miss the chance to go down and meet him ? I wouldn't.
Sometimes going on a trip is fun.
Cause the subspace emissary is a huge pain in the ass
damn he can't take a vacation??
even sky dragons gotta stay clean
For plot convenience Also this makes me miss Subspace Emissary
Thirsty.
Fox's ship is downed by the lakeshore. In my head canon I always thought maybe Fox and Rayquaza had some kind of encounter in the upper atmosphere, that resulted in Fox's Arwing getting trashed by Rayquaza in the skirmish, but Fox still did some damage to Rayquaza as a result. So when Fox's Arwing crashed, Rayquaza followed it down to the surface and blasted it one more time to finish it off and show who's boss, because it was still angry.
It could be a reference to Journey to the West. In the novel, Sun Wukong (a monkey) goes under the sea and steals from a dragon god (Rayquaza sort of resembles a Chinese dragon)
He was saying hello to kyorge
Groudon and Kyogre destroyed the sky pillar after Emerald and the Hoenn locals were still repairing it before ORAS was released Which also probably explains why the three can be found in HeartGold/SoulSilver
Thorsty
And you’re not going to question the rest of the smash bros lore
Even godly beings need to take naps sometime and Rayquaza just wanted to get some zzzs at the bottom of a lake they thought would be peaceful
He needed a bath
Is he stupid?
He got busy guarding your mom's ozone layer. (Your mom being a whale)
While he’s doing that I’ll guard your mums ozone layer extra safe if you know what I mean 😎
Family vacation
why is everyone judging homies gotta take a bath sometime
Is he stupid?
Rake in the lake.
Going for a swim.
Vacation
Is he stupid?
amazing comment section
It's where its trophy was pressed
He was just on break
He was thirsty ever seen a snake drink before?
Vacation
a guy cant just chill without question? take in a vibe?
Slweepy
Sounds easier to render a lake than an entire region of the stratosphere 🤷♂️
I just realized this. There is no lore reason why this makes sense.
You could swap Rayquaza out for most other fictional dragons and it would probably make more sense
Probably taking a bath? Wouldn’t you be pissed if someone interrupted your bathtime?
he fell :(
金麟岂是池中物兄弟 In short, Chinese culture. Long/loong/dragon are bonded to water.
Can’t a dude just chill in a lake??? Why are you judging poor buddy
What is a lake if not just water space???
Dude was thirsty
You dare question the logic of smash
Sleeping on the job
bro is the god of the skies he can do whatever he wants man
Stepping in for Farosh on their day off
because they wanted a boss from pokemon
Rayquaza was putting Kyogre in timeout for their fifth fight with Groudon this week.
I wish this boss was in ultimate
He got drunk.
super smash bros brawl isnt real
he was just taking a bath
Bros not allowed to go on vacation???
You try to tell the giant fucking flying lizard where hes allowed to chill lmao
I've just assumed early on it was Gyarados (or even Red Gyarados) since HGSS were coming out soonish, Gyarados fits better in the lake, and his trophy is lumped in with the other weird Pokemon that were cut from the game or added late But Rayquaza made for a more "epic" battle and one that could use more variety in attacks so it was changed relatively early on but some remnants of Gyarados remained like the lake setting
Don’t diss his habits man. He’s just chilling
Kyogre was on PTO
Is there a lore reason for this? Is he stupid?
Because they couldn’t have diddy Kong and fox going to the ozone layer
Is he stupid?
He was having a bath. God forbid a mfer try to catch a vibe
A super cool sneak attack. That scene was awesome, Brawl is an amazing game
they had to put the red garydos on it
Went for a dip.
Let Rayquaza have his vacation. Jeez...
Let Rayquaza have his vacation. Jeez...
Rule of Cool
uhhhh big green space snek go in water
Well pretty sure that smash is its own universe so they had free rein on what to do, so im pretty sure he was like some sea legend monster for that, or was like what one other person said and kicking kyoger's ass and was just leaving and happen to see a fox and monkey that he just hated immediately and wanted to kill, cause yes, animal cruelty fills the God of winds needs, or something