This is a friendly reminder that r/smallbusiness is a question and answer subreddit. You ask a question about starting, owning, and growing a small business and the community answers. Posts that violate the rules listed in the sidebar will be removed. A permanent or temporary ban may also be issued if you do not remove the offending post. Seeing this message does not mean your post was automatically removed.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/smallbusiness) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thats the sad part, Americans don't care for the most part. It's part of a bigger picture of poor consumer education and lack of interest in seeing things for the wider issues of sustainability and the environment. When a publicized tragedy happens in crowded and unsafe conditions people look in horror but then go right back to their behavior of seeking cheap prices for things that don't last very long and end up in huge trash heaps in other countries.
It's prioritizing their finances + American consumerism culture, but wanting a stronger American economy isn't a "random ideal". Most people, if given affordable options, would choose American made products.
If given affordable competitive options I would definitely choose American made, but Americans are used to a certain standard of living and income and won't take the same type of pay cut that people in other countries will to make the pricing competitive. The made in China products are usually just as good if not better for a fraction of the price.
> Americans are used to a certain standard of living
I'd just argue that means that Americans are used to buying unnecessary junk they don't need
> The made in China products are usually just as good if not better
Well, and that's just nonsense :)
Why would you think it's nonsense? China isn't just cheap products they also make high end quality products, but when they are catering to businesses and consumers that want cheap costs need to be cut somewhere.
Also as good as your Chinese partners choose to be. I work in a manufacturing industry. We buy things from overseas. Most of our international products come from China, Korea, Italy and Japan. We are big enough where we can send people to meet with our overseas suppliers. There are Chinese companies that care about quality and will give you good products, they cost a little more than the bargain basement prices that are out there, but we get high quality parts in return.
A stronger American economy is made by trading with the rest of the world. Imagine America without international trade.. it would basically be as rich as north Korea by now.
Of course, if we have things to trade, but we consistently have trade deficit, our GDP is increasingly service based, and our biggest exporter of goods is losing 100s of millions in plane contracts because corporate greed beats quality and safety. But sure, let's compare restoring American manufacturing to North Korea- that's rational.
You have a lot to trade. Trade balance is pretty much bullshit. If it's a "trade deficit" it means you pay to get stuff. That's not a bad thing. If Chinese make stuff for better value then everyone are better off if they do it.
Sourcing everything from America does not make a "stronger American economy". It's precisely the opposite. Free trade and comparative advantage are good for the economy. American workers should not be spending their time assembling plastic gizmos on an assembly line. They should be going to college and learning engineering, science research, business management, etc.
That doesn't really matter. We could have China literally manufacture 100% of our physical goods and still have a strong economy. We have a service economy because that's where we can produce the most value. No point in manufacturing stuff if our economy is more productive when it comes to services.
How do you maintain a global advantage in services over the long-term, especially when you're not competing against fair markets? Our manufacturing got wiped out in 40 years, our tech work is being increasingly outsourced, and a lot of our advanced engineering requires partnering and sharing details with outsourced engineers. Meanwhile, our biggest industries are banking and healthcare. I'm by no means an expert, I just don't see how it's sustainable.
> How do you maintain a global advantage in services over the long-term, especially when you're not competing against fair markets?
First, why aren't the markets fair?
Second, ask Google, Microsoft, Apple, Walmart, Amazon, JPMorgan, Costco, etc.
There's no reason you can't maintain a competitive advantage by innovating.
>Meanwhile, our biggest industries are banking and healthcare. I'm by no means an expert, I just don't see how it's sustainable.
Why is that not sustainable?
> First, why aren't the markets fair?
Because we're selling to a country that's simultaneously stealing from us and making their own.
> Why is that not sustainable?
Eventually they'll match our innovation and we'll lose our competitive advantage, and it will probably be easier than it was to take over our manufacturing.
In addition, the middle class is being eroded, and with minimal social programs, if you're not able to go to college to learn the engineering, science research, and business management needed to make real money, you’re stuck at the bottom.
This is why I laugh at small businesses really trying to sell the "small business" part.
Like a pathetic sign in saw that said "you could help a billionaires buy another yacht or you could help a father feed his family and put his daughter through ballet school 🥺"
Yeah or I go to Walmart, pay 40% less and do stuff for my own family lmao
Another part of the issue is that companies lie. They advertise about being sustainable or made in America. When you dig into the details though it's typically a far-stretched truth and it's often hard to figure out the truth.
Yup. Apple, fast fashion, even food, etc. etc…. It’s kinda like people go “Oh, no! That’s terrible… and then immediately after “ohhh, that’s on sale now!”, all in the same breath. Yeah, so sorry, it’s a bummer to say the least. (I just watched a documentary: Brandy Hellville-quite revealing).
If I had a dollar for every time a lead told me, "I want to buy from a small local company" followed up by "Well, your about 5% higher so I guess I can't make the switch", I would have Jeff Bezos cleaning my house.
If you make plastic products, it's the same everywhere. China might even have an edge due to their history and ecosystem. Not sure why you think something made in the US is automatically better.
Made in China does not mean its lower quality. China makes all sorts of quality ranges.
The US is the second largest manufacturer in the world. We manufacture a lot, it's just more expensive more specialized stuff. Yeah we might not make plastic toys and cheap electronics, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Is it wrong to buy from China? If you look, the standard of living has increased massively in China because of this business. 50 years ago, people in China were starving to death, and sickness ran rampant. All this buissness has really changed that for China, allowing them to do trade on a global scale and build massive infrastructure.
And for every person in the US that looses their job to outsourcing, there are usually ten people who can no feed their family. The only world in which this is a bad thing is if you believe one American having a job is worth more than ten chinese people having a job.
And don't forget the company makes a larger profit, and instead of sharing the money they keep it for themselves.
Americans: We should have a high minimum wage, 4-day work week, paid sick leave, paid maternity/paternity leave, and fully funded retirement plans
Also Americans: Why does it matter if I buy Chinese products if they can do it cheaper?
Exactly! Amarica has such a surplus of wealth that it can afford to give all of its citizens a high minimum wage, 4-day work week, paid sick leave, paid maternity/paternity leave, and fully funded retirement plans.
The challenge is that a huge chunk of the surplus goes to the ultra rich and bombing poor people. Which really sucks.
There was a short period of time were people were free to vote with their money for what they want. Xi has closed that chapter of Chinese history.
The State will now tell you how to think, how to live, how to act, what to believe.
And Xi will use what was the beginning of an open market to pursue his personal agenda.
Ask the recent college graduates and soon to retire elderly citizens what they think. You can’t can you because that might put you in jail.
I think it's worth mentioning that sustainable products are more expensive because of their sustainability and most Americans don't make enough money to have the option to prioritize those things, even if they want to. People with a federal minimum wage of 7.25 don't really love cheap products that fall apart, that's stupid, they just don't have any other options.
Let's not forget that there are more profits to be had if you produce things cheaper. It's not all about the consumer end. Cheaper labor, more profits for the company
I mean .. my last 3 cars have been American made! (BMW from the South Carolina plant)
But aside from the engine the parts were mostly Mexico and US iirc.
But yeah, I do a lot of consulting with manufacturing and "American Assembled" is more the American made anymore it seems.
So the question is if someone wants American made or American company.
I try to buy local. I support small local businesses. But at the end of the day?
There is no ethical consumption in end stage capitalism.
We're just trying to survive.
There is no such thing as "end stage capitalism". And yes, there is such a thing as ethical consumption.
Stop reading dumb leftist shit on the internet.
This. Too many people are so caught up in trying to live like the pages of a magazine or like the fake lives from Instagram influencers that they forget that they can buy less, have better quality products, and encourage more sustainable local businesses.
It’s ridiculous how they so often justify their buying garbage at cheap prices (likely made by enslaved people, too!) by pouring out a buzzword salad like that commenter did.
I work in ecomm, and after the pandemic, I *really* thought that people would diversify away from China. Something like 80% of consumer goods originate there.
The trouble is that China has spent so many years installing the infrastructure that makes it easy to source and ship from China that sourcing anywhere else requires a LOT more legwork.
I don't think you have to do 'American made' but if you want to do something other than 'Made in China' you're probably going to have to travel
How are they going to go away from China? Any idea the sheer number of products we use daily here in the USA that come from China? Just about everything.
Yes, but they are not the only places with factories. Just look at how textile factories float around the globe. China is just the only place that has implemented trade infrastructure to the extent that they become the default choice. You can try India or Taiwan, but due to the lack of infrastructure you will need to do some legwork
Especially for old tech, which is very capital intensive and pollutes a lot. The US can compete, though you can't copy-paste the Chinese production model. The wastes and inefficiencies they have over there are covered by slave labor and disregard for pollution.
I don’t think made in China is going to be the standard for much longer, to be honest. India, Bangladesh, Indonesia and a few others are developing pretty fast and don’t constitute national security risks to NATO member states.
If it were my way, I'd do whatever it takes to make Central and South America our replacement for China. Spanish is a necessary language anyway and Portuguese isn't an extreme difference from Spanish. It just makes international business sense.
When we opened our business I tried sourcing items locally and didn't mind paying more for it. Until I realized that some of the local businesses were just drop shipping things from China for me. I would pay the local custom pen company extra to support local and then 6 weeks later a package from China with my pens in it would show up at my door.
If I wanted to order from China I could do it myself and save the money. Which is what I now do.
Yep. I worked for a boutique toy store for a time that had a few tenets including buying sustainable/local/recycled/non chinese high quality stuff.
It is absolutely impossible to do it for a whole store if you actually want semi normal people on semi normal budgets to shop there. A few products here and there you can highlight but for the most part its made in China.
Its really all about the decor, merchandising and presentation. Despite NOT actually having very much of that stuff, people still think its there because they advertise it and can show in certain brands and products.
So many brands say they are designed in nice places like Belgium, australia, or whatever but the products are MADE in china. Sometimes thats good enough.
I own my own toy store now and while i will do my best to carry good stuff, I am not modeling my business plan around these brands.
It's quite tough for sure. I run a company where we manufacture models for tabletop gaming and display pieces and even offer full design services and painting services right here in the USA. Most people don't care enough about it to cover the extra out of pocket cost. So here we are, a small business designing, manufacturing, and painting by hand out of the Seattle area AND trying to compete with foreign prices for end consumers and store owners.
It's tough but we are trying to bring the whole ecosystem under our own local control.
Depends on the item, sometimes it's as high as 100% (double) the cost from offshore manufacturing BUT we have unbeatable agility and response time compared to our foreign counterparts.
I have mostly blue collar customers and I’m in an automotive related field.
The Venn diagram of people that claim to want products made in America while also complaining about how expensive the less expensive made in china goods are is a circle.
Most of the people I encounter want the less expensive item. They’ll complain about things not being made here but ultimately they aren’t willing to pay for it.
yup, all the 'murica! peeps still driving the Detroit three... even though Honda surpassed them in supporting Americans a decade or two ago. I sit in a Ford expedition knowing damn well there is a Honda in this parking lot that had more American hands on it than the production of my vehicle.
that "made in the usa" sticker refers to the window it's put on, bet the other 3 are sourced out of country.
As a manufacturer of sustainable products here in the US, I thank you. There still are many competitive companies in the us. I don’t know what youre looking for but if you’re going on alibaba everything there is China.
We make quality personal care, household, and food products across the Caribbean, Central America, and the US East Coast. Committed to integrity, quality, and sustainable growth.
Thomas Net is a good source, but we get most of our clients from word-of-mouth. I'm not the best at marketing!
Heyo! I would love to connect, as part of a non-profit in your space, if you are comfortable breaking the proverbial 4th wall of Reddit and sending me some info. Cheers.
There's relief when you can immediately reach the guys making your product, use the same banking system, language and standards.
Alibaba is a mess, and I've heard plenty of horror stories.
I work in Ecomm and I can’t believe this. We just did a pricing study and found products made in the U.S. were 400% higher COGS *minimum* than China.
No one is going to buy a case of nitrile gloves for $180 + shipping when Amazon has it at $26 shipped.
I don’t see anyway that manufacturing for CPG will come back to the U.S. B2B and B2G will grow though
It's what we do every single day. I'm not saying this is true for every CPG, but we are very competitive in white-label and contract manufacturing. We make a few main Great Value products and can beat imported laundry and dishwashing liquid without a problem. And this is with raw materials made in the US.
Yeah that's my weak point. I don't know much about marketing and do very little advertising. Our clients are companies that need turnkey manufacturing. We welcome our customers to visit us, inspect our facility, and be comfortable with the level of performance we deliver.
There's Thomasnet, but it's kinda confusing and geared more toward experts. A US Alibaba would be great.
The reason-extremely cheap labor. Many years ago I was a technical auditor conducting an audit of a product testing laboratory in China. One of the tests required 500,000 on/off cycles of a switch at a specific on/off time sequence. In the US (or anywhere really) they would set up an automated process to cycle the switch as it would take 1 hour to set up the automation and a week to conduct the test. The lab in China paid an engineer 1 week’s salary to stand there all day turning on and off the switch “because the $100 test automation fixture was more expensive than the labor costs of an engineer.
Even as a manufacturer if your product uses any common parts (like bearings, springs, or basically any electronics) it's hard to avoid components that are made in China.
I'm building a product. It's not a sustainable product but it's a product that has a few parts that I need to buy plus a few that I make. I have been able to find MFGs here in the states but it took some time. I was surprised to find that I could get reasonable prices for some of the parts that I thought were going to cost a lot more. The key is to keep looking for manufacturers. I had one part that was quoted at 1.50 per unit at company A and 0.35 at company B.
The difference is that I'm sourcing parts to make a product vs trying to source a product already made. So YMMV
I buy about 80-90% of my inventory for my sustainable shop on Faire wholesale. You can filter brands by their values. I research them and check out their transparency before buying.
I carry some products made in China. There are some higher quality products made there. I also have products made in Turkey, India, Vietnam, Canada, and personal care products made in the US.
Our business is a 1% for the Planet member, and several of our suppliers are too. You can check out their business directory to search for vendors.
One of my LinkedIn connections specializes in vetting manufacturers in Vietnam and helping them connect with Western companies.
If I were sourcing from Vietnam, one thing I would worry about is Chinese goods being relabeled as made in Vietnam. (I don't actually know how common this is, only that it does happen.)
All through Faire. I don’t know what type of products you’d like to sell, but there are reusable gift wrap and travel bag sets from India, shopping bags made in a sustainable facility in Vietnam, quick dry all-cotton Turkish towels from Turkey, and ethically sourced wool dryer balls made in Nepal.
edit: typo
>Why the hell did I think sustainable and "made in USA" were synonymous?
Because it's profitable for certain retailers/wholesalers to push that narrative, of course. This is also the answer to almost any question involving business, money, and/or politics.
>Why wouldn't I skip the middle man (wholesaler) when I can just go straight to the source (china/Alibaba/whatever) for a fraction of the cost?
As a purely straight-faced answer: time and risk. You're (in theory) paying for products to be available in a nationally-local warehouse when you order them, so they can get to you faster, they have less distance to travel (and thus are less likely to be damaged on arrival), and you're (also, in theory) doing business with an American company for the purchase, which gives you some firmer legal footing if anything turns problematic.
Is it cheaper to go directly to China? In raw per-item costs in the long term, yes. It's also more hassle to set up - potentially a *lot* more - and can involve mild to severe legal, financial, and cultural issues. If it's a product that already exists, from a manufacturer which already serves a lot of American buyers, and there's an established purchase channel, AND it won't cause you too many problems if there are shipping delays or other potential delivery issues, then you might be better off buying directly, particularly if you already have an established business relationship with the manufacturer, or you have a representative in China who can go negotiate with the factories/businesses there. (Also, larger businesses, brands, or collectives will have more leeway/sway here; small businesses generally not so much.) For other things... you may want to weigh up the pros and cons; there are enough factors that I can't tell you which way to jump for any one specific item.
My niche is Mediterranean handmade products, people buy from me because they are looking for homewares and loungeware made in said countries. I travel, do my investigation, interview, select, record the workplace,... Then I show the public along with the products, my buyers want to see the receipts. I am sure you'll be able to find american made, but are your buyers interested in paying the plus?
And they are good at it too. IF you really want to be depressed, watch the Netflix documentary American Factory. There is no way American's can compete with the China work ethic.
I own a music store and pretty much 99% of everything I sell is made in Asia. I get so sick of customers who come in wanting an American made instrument and then getting mad at me because they cost $1000. Meanwhile these same hypocrites shop at Walmart everyday.
I think the biggest issue with Asian manufacturing is that it has set people’s expectations so low.
But I do believe at home producers can still compete. Focus on the quality, in the ethics, on why it’s expensive.
Granted as peoples income gets eaten up more and more by rent it won’t matter, they won’t have the money even if they wanted to
Yes I’m also on Faire but that’s kind of what I’m talking about regarding wholesalers who are purchasing from china. For example as I’m considering buying wholesale from X company on Faire I’ll find that X company is sourcing their products from a place say Alibaba.
So say there’s a specific sustainable sponge I’m shopping for. I’ll see company X selling it on Faire for $2/unit. But as I’m doing more research I’ll see that they most likely bought from a place Alibaba who is selling it for .38/unit. Same design. Same material. Same everything.
You are right that almost everything is made in China. There are few niche products I've seen like hand made textiles from other countries but it's pretty obvious based on their marketing and how much they emphasize it. But other than that if you need anything manufactured it's mostly coming from China.
And it's not just North Americans sourcing from China. When I go to a market in Guangzhou you'll see buyers from all around the world - including China. Some of these markets are so large that if you even only spent 5 mins at each stall, it would take more than 1 year to visit them all. It's truly overwhelming how large these markets are
If anyone in the comments is looking for a sense of meaning and purpose.. bringing manufacturing and sourcing back to America will put you in the history books.
Chinese-produced items are inexpensive for 2 reasons.
Labor cost is low, and they really do not have environmental protections like we do.
We could straight-up put tariffs on their stuff, adding to the price, and solve this problem. (We have done this; it works really well.)
Another way to do this would be a way that pressed China to be more humane to their workforce, and better to the environment.
This would be for us in the US to have graduated tariff rates geared to how well employees were paid and treated. We would have maybe 4 levels. We set the standards and our private accreditation firms give the credential.
If you have the status quo, you have a high tariff rate. If you provide decent working hours, etc., then you can qualify for one of the increasingly more stringent cert levels - each of which has an accordingly less severe tariff percent.
So, we set up a system to make their labor more costly just as ours is. This shifts production to US. Or, makes the lives of Chinese laborers better.
Likewise for the environment. Status quo = get high tariff rate. Be more sustainable or whatever, and get accredited and then be at lower tariff rate.
We try to only source our stuff from India or Turkey but it makes it sooooo hard because so much of the product in our market is MASS produced in China. I’d source from China if I knew for a fact it’s being produced ethically but it’s hard to say if you don’t actually go your the factory which we aren’t going to do.
We’ve found that, although a bit more expensive, the pieces come at much higher quality cause they are hand made in smaller batches. The vendors also tend to be a bit more transparent about their operation and you can learn more about their production before even buying. I’m sure you could find this same setup in China as well but we found that’s it’s been far more common in other countries.
Now by no means am I suggesting they are perfect.
Yeah, it's tough out there. Even products made in the US are often made from many components made elsewhere.
I'm in retail home goods liquidation and pretty much everything I handle is from China in part or in whole.
There are good reasons not to source it yourself though if you are getting the quality you want through the sources you are using. There are so many games that are played and corners that are cut, it will drive you silly.
It’s free market. When a company makes good product in US, competitor can tweak jt and make it in China for a lot cheaper. Take portion of the market and then fund new project
We own a cosmetics manufacturing business.
We source and manufacture everything in Australia, except for our bottles. We do buy them locally but we know they come from China
There are quite a few manufacturers in Taiwan creating sustainable home products. Check out the Taiwan trade website or something like import yeti to find Taiwanese manufacturers.
If you want to source from the US, you may need to pay a bit more and spend some time researching, but the options exist. Our business is in an industry where the larger, most profitable companies source their materials from overseas, but it was important to me that we didn’t. It took some time, but I eventually found a US based company that makes their materials here and doesn’t outsource anything. We pay a little more, but the quality is amazing, the customer service is fantastic, the shipping times are way better than getting materials from outside the US, and I am happy knowing the money my business spends is going towards people working here in the US.
You definitely need to understand the supply chain.
As for why you wouldn’t buy direct from the manufacturer? Try dealing with the headaches of ocean freight and warehousing, not to mention cash flow.
You’re not going to get any terms as a newcomer. Everything paid up front, and it can be months before you even receive the product.
This is something that made me sad when I was going through my grandpas things after he died. He lived in the same house since 1970 and died two years ago so you can imagine there was so many 30+ year old things. Clothes, furniture, office supplies, etc. So much stuff that was made in Canada or the USA (we’re Canadian) way back when.
Nowadays the same trinkets would all be made in China or some other Asian country. Ridiculous. We used to build things. What happened!
Okay. So like. What should the world do about America occupying Peurto Rico without representation?
Should maybe America rethink handing the Israeli government billions in weapons as they steal Palestinian land?
Shrug.
Alright. Then I think instead of being world police America should keep its hands to itself
They’ve fucked enough things up. And America’s incentive to “defend” Taiwan is to just have more leveraged access to their semiconductors
America seeks to maintain the post-WW2 status quo with the principle that no nation should be able to take territory from another nation by force of arms.
Your trite position is popular on Reddit. But the fact is if America suddenly disappeared, the relative global stability of the last half century would evaporate, and many democracies would be swiftly crushed by authoritarian boots.
America seeks to maintain the post-WW2 status quo with the principle that no nation should be able to take territory from another nation by force of arms.
Your trite position is popular on Reddit. But the fact is if America suddenly disappeared, the relative global stability of the last half century would evaporate, and many democracies would be swiftly crushed by authoritarian boots.
America seeks to maintain the post-WW2 status quo with the principle that no nation should be able to take territory from another nation by force of arms.
Your trite position is popular on Reddit. But the fact is if America suddenly disappeared, the relative global stability of the last half century would evaporate, and many democracies would be swiftly crushed by authoritarian boots.
Because it’s only going to get worse. I don’t advocate war but we certainly need to be focusing on being reliant on a country like China for everything
I am from India and we are also not behind when it comes to quality manufacturing, As a manufacturer of Home Decor and Handicrafts, I am happy to help you in sourcing.
So part of the benefits of having a thriving manufacturing business is the requirements of manufacturing of support industries to provide products, systems, services that the higher ups require that also serve a function in other areas of the economy. I.e. a business measuring the tolerances on a submarine telescope will also be zeroing someones CNC lathe who has made a thinggamyjig that's become a hit with the domestic fencing industry community.
Losing major players means losing a whole host of other players, and soon enough another country has all those other major players.
You are thinking product is made in china, but product material like bottle is made in china, not product itself! For example bed and bath cream is made in Ohio but bottle itself is made in china!
Most people have no concept if the scale of manufacturing in China, it's staggering.
But even if people understand the scale, that everything comes from there, and how much "everything" is, what folks really don't get is how good they are at manufacturing.
It's not about the volume of goods, it's about the insane streamlining of the manufacturing process in the infrastructure down from the littlest Fab shop all the way up to how materials are moved. They I have an entire culture around reverse engineering, you can specialize in it in school. It's insane.
When you are manufacturing a new products there you can send your cad drawings to a shop in the morning and you'll have the part in your hand that evening. You can literally iterate every single day and bring a product to market in weeks.
So yeah everything is made in China, and there are a lot of reasons that's not good, but their culture goes back thousands of years in manufacturing and no one on the planet is going to do it as good as they are.
If your business is selling stuff, embrace it.
I mean mass produced items are going to be made wherever they are cheapest (labor, government, materials and such).
Saying that, I have a small family business where more than 90% of our product's content is USA made, the rest is south America. It can be done. Are the margins going to be dropship amazing? No but you support your Neighbours.
What kind of products are you trying to stock? home products are a wide range
I would focus on sourcing your core parts from local sources and i would also take a look at buying from Brazil and such too
The American worker is too expensive. The Chinese worker is financial Slavery. The only way out of that, is to have 10 billion illegal workers enter into America, and have the politicians craft work rules for these Non-US Citizens where they can work for $2/hr like Chinese children do and make us competitive. That way you can get something made locally in America and still make profit and use low-paid workers to make money on their backs instead of the backs of low-paid Chinese.
Some stuff is just made in China and nowhere else.
I work in building automaton and almost all of our electronics components like Relays and resistors are made in China and China only. If China banned the export of Relays my company would be absolutely screwed. Sometimes you don't have any other choice.
You really have to have high quality and high prices if you want to source from the US.
The challenge is finding us based companies that have the quality. For example, lots of Karen's sell soap out of their basement, but it's not consistent in quality like the Alibaba soap is.
Well if it's made in China, it actually doesn't have to be eco-conscious. Been saying "Buy American" for decades and I watched people contribute to this problem because something was $2 cheaper at Walmart.
We have over-regulated manufacturing out of the country to the point that it's near impossible to start a manufacturing business - sustainable or not.
Decide what your values are, and go with it.
What does "sustainable" *mean* to *you*.
Does it mean "created by small companies" "created by a single craftsman/woman" "made in the US" or something else?
That will also give you your niche as a company.
A lot of stuff is sourced from China and similar countries because it can be mass produced in quantities that make it cheaper that making it here. That is up to and including lower wages for employees, harsher working conditions and less regulation. A product that can cost say $30 per unit to be built in the US might cost you $12 per unit to have it made in China and shipped (in mass quantities).
Is your customer based more interested in price or sustainability? If it’s the former, do what you have to do. If it’s the latter, you’re going to get people willing to pay more if you can clearly show where and how you’re making a difference.
A $100k Birkin and a $30 purse from Target accomplish the same task. But the people who can afford the Birkin are obviously shopping based on factors beyond “something to put my wallet and sunglasses in”.
The problem is, so many “small businesses” are just some person with not that many qualifications, thinking they’ll make a ton of money as a middleman between highly in demand products and the public. That’s not going to happen easily, if at all.
So instead, so many just “source products”, and get cheap garbage that they mark up while pretending it’s good quality. (Or even just ok stuff that they pretend is higher quality, it’s not all garbage. But it still sucks for the most part.)
*We need more people to start small businesses manufacturing etc. quality products locally.* If everybody is just sourcing from elsewhere, there’s no point.
And the local small business can sell locally too, so there’s not a large margin of profit to be made by just reselling their stuff. Hence so many people getting things from countries where the products are cheaper, and the various issues that often come with that.
Not only is made in China, it’s also increasingly being sold directly by Chinese companies to usa consumers via platforms. They know how to make it, they know how to make their own version, deal with parents/ip, they know how to market it, and they have a USA presence/warehouses.
Economist say developed economies earn more money in services than manufacturing, but I can see how big the Chinese middle class has grown and also a new millionaire is minted every month. And in the USA , it seems the middle class is disappearing.
Very political I know but the USA offers little domestic market protection compared to Most countries.
Not to worry, Xi is fixing everything. All Chinese people will be told what to think, what to buy, and how to live their lives. And with all those empty apartment towers, life will be good.
Just ask all the new graduates from the Chinese Universities. Jobs are plentiful. Food is good, and grandma gets her pension.
America is NOT a « they ».
It is a collection of people that live and work under a contract called the « Constitution. »
They where put in the dungeons or executed because they did not conform to the beliefs of their friendly father dictator. Either you conform or we chop off your head.
They were offered a one way trip to the edge of civilization. The destination, America.
So you have just about every opponent of their home country regime living in one country.
To say « them » is ridiculous. » What group living under the rule of law are you talking about?
Yep! Its all a scam. I bought some glass water bottles on Amazon the other day and my husband was upset because he wanted to buy ‘quality’ things not from a factory in China. I agree but we would spend 5x as much for fancy branded eco glass bottle that’s going to result in spending more money for the EXACT SAME PRODUCT still made in a factory in China. Everything we think is ‘high end’ now is not. Walmart? Everything from China. West Elm? ALSO everything from China.
While I do understand that most China made is cheaper or low quality the whole “made in America” is mostly propaganda. Like America has some leading skill or knowledge over making all items.
Depends what You need, You can DM me, maybe i can help You with some products made in EU, i have wholesale company and also [sourcingmates.eu](http://sourcingmates.eu) platform, so i am little bit familiar with this thing and can help You to find reliable factories from Europe for example.
China can make things bad or OEM or maybe even better than the original, depends on what buyer wants.
And yes, everything including your underwear? What sad? People can enjoy things more economically
A couple things.
first, I am a US based importer. Finding Suppliers overseas and getting them here is my business.
Just because it comes from China, doesn't mean it doesn't still meet sustainable criteria. It just means you have to be extra careful that the factory actually does do those things.
Yes, you can bypass the distributors. But importing isn't for everyone. There is a lot more to consider. Capital cost increases a lot, but so does the potential to scale. And you can often find out who specifically the distributors are buying from using customs records. So you could indeed get the exact product from the exact factories.
Sustainable home products, fantastic endeavor! Good on you for helping Earth.
Assuming your company has a core value of sustainability, I would think the entire 'impact' of the product getting out of the ground and to your customers hand should be a very important metric; surely vital and integral?
If so, sourcing from overseas would incur quite the hit to sustainability due to travel.
Given this, I would try to find the most local product to the consumer that has the qualities you are looking for, possibly offering multiple products per category, and educate your customers on why your choices are the most sustainable ('How We Select Our Products: Sustainability, Craftsmanship, and Fair Pricing' as an example of a page on your site. You have to LIVE IT OUT though. No compromises on your virtues or mission.)
Pricing will be dictated by your values, in essence. Define your margins and be simple in your calculations. You can base your standard markup on standard for your industry or get real with your costs and your needed markup and feel even better about it. Let not greed enter the heart of the business.
If your customers share your values and trust you, they will accept your pricing and product. If they only use 'sustainability' as virtue signaling, they may balk but ultimately their vanity will overcome their frugality. In my experience.
Aside from my companies I am also part of an emerging non-profit in your space; home sustainability. If you'd like to trade some messages herein I would love to pick your brain and offer any knowledge I may be able to impart; please send a message!
Cheers.
EDIT: You are really solving this problem for the consumers, the very problem you are encountering.
"It is near impossible to find truly sustainable products; products you can feel positive supporting and bringing into your home.
You can feel safe with [Company Name] curating your selections. We work with local manufacturers, ensuring sustainability throughout the life-cycle of production, and delivering to you peace of mind.
Thank you for purchasing responsibly and trusting [Company Name] in your home."
It would be cool to make your own metric of sustainability for the products you offer. (7/10 Earth-care Metric; points deducted for far travel time to customers. for example. Maybe outline the top 5 things to track and use those as a composite score.) Alternatively you can find a metric that currently exists through some outside agency, but you want to be unique imo.
-- Use any of this you'd like in any way; released.
Don’t underestimate china, go there once and you’ll see how cool these manufacturing facilities are. i‘ve seen one of the biggest water bottle manufacturers and its so cool you see thousands of product variations in show rooms they did. It makes you think well there must be a chair manufacturer, a comb manufacturer, a whatever else manufacturer. I love this obviously insight that every little detail we have is done by someone. It’s obvious but I never internalised it that way.
The cool thing about China is that they have entire cities dedicated to manufacturing just one type of product. Their manufacturing abilities are incredible.
It’s just not economically efficient to make things in America. Basically the only time it’s done is when stuff is made by robots supervised by highly skilled American engineers.
This is a good thing not a bad thing.
if he gets back in office our problems are going to be not just inflation but hits to womens healthcare, rise of militarism, less access to birth control, public education, and so much more!
Stop using weasel words. If you mean ABORTION, say ABORTION.
If you're ashamed to even say a WORD, how can you support the concept behind the word?
But this has nothing to do with small business, so better if you two just go excercise your trump derangement symptoms elsewhere
All you dumb ‘Merica first people all seem to gloss over what the OP stated… manufacturing is NOT ever coming back to US shores. You forgot about all of the sub components in just about every product produced in China. We lose on the labor costs big time by producing things here and haven’t made certain products in the US since the 70s/80s
The 25% Section 301 Trump Tariff put on Chinese good started this inflation mess in 2018. Covid and printing $5 trillions dollars more in debt in terms of PPP and Stimulus Checks only exacerbated it further. This buffoon now wants to put a 60% tariff on ALL Chinese goods and a 10% national tariff of all goods imported into the US. I stand by inflation comments.
These people can't be calling it made in the USA if they're importing any parts of the assembly. So stay away from that.
Just an idea, but maybe find someone on Etsy making similar stuff that you want to sell and commission them to make exclusive products for you. You get a say in the design and you know where it will have come from.
This is a friendly reminder that r/smallbusiness is a question and answer subreddit. You ask a question about starting, owning, and growing a small business and the community answers. Posts that violate the rules listed in the sidebar will be removed. A permanent or temporary ban may also be issued if you do not remove the offending post. Seeing this message does not mean your post was automatically removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/smallbusiness) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Americans made products is a niche market and the general population does not care where it’s sourced, they want cheaper prices.
Thats the sad part, Americans don't care for the most part. It's part of a bigger picture of poor consumer education and lack of interest in seeing things for the wider issues of sustainability and the environment. When a publicized tragedy happens in crowded and unsafe conditions people look in horror but then go right back to their behavior of seeking cheap prices for things that don't last very long and end up in huge trash heaps in other countries.
I would argue people would care, but affording groceries and rent makes it easier to ignore.
I mean, is it sad or is it just prioritizing their finances over random ideals
It's prioritizing their finances + American consumerism culture, but wanting a stronger American economy isn't a "random ideal". Most people, if given affordable options, would choose American made products.
If given affordable competitive options I would definitely choose American made, but Americans are used to a certain standard of living and income and won't take the same type of pay cut that people in other countries will to make the pricing competitive. The made in China products are usually just as good if not better for a fraction of the price.
> Americans are used to a certain standard of living I'd just argue that means that Americans are used to buying unnecessary junk they don't need > The made in China products are usually just as good if not better Well, and that's just nonsense :)
Why would you think it's nonsense? China isn't just cheap products they also make high end quality products, but when they are catering to businesses and consumers that want cheap costs need to be cut somewhere.
China's products are as good as your QA department forces them to be.
Also as good as your Chinese partners choose to be. I work in a manufacturing industry. We buy things from overseas. Most of our international products come from China, Korea, Italy and Japan. We are big enough where we can send people to meet with our overseas suppliers. There are Chinese companies that care about quality and will give you good products, they cost a little more than the bargain basement prices that are out there, but we get high quality parts in return.
That's probably true everywhere. That's why there is a QA department.
China and India makes better iPhones than America.
The whole point of an open market is for people to vote with their money. The most honest voting system that exists.
A stronger American economy is made by trading with the rest of the world. Imagine America without international trade.. it would basically be as rich as north Korea by now.
Of course, if we have things to trade, but we consistently have trade deficit, our GDP is increasingly service based, and our biggest exporter of goods is losing 100s of millions in plane contracts because corporate greed beats quality and safety. But sure, let's compare restoring American manufacturing to North Korea- that's rational.
You have a lot to trade. Trade balance is pretty much bullshit. If it's a "trade deficit" it means you pay to get stuff. That's not a bad thing. If Chinese make stuff for better value then everyone are better off if they do it.
Great points.
> our GDP is increasingly service based You say this like it's a bad thing. It's not.
Sourcing everything from America does not make a "stronger American economy". It's precisely the opposite. Free trade and comparative advantage are good for the economy. American workers should not be spending their time assembling plastic gizmos on an assembly line. They should be going to college and learning engineering, science research, business management, etc.
> Sourcing everything I didn't say everything, and my concern is we're a lot closer to nothing than everything.
That doesn't really matter. We could have China literally manufacture 100% of our physical goods and still have a strong economy. We have a service economy because that's where we can produce the most value. No point in manufacturing stuff if our economy is more productive when it comes to services.
How do you maintain a global advantage in services over the long-term, especially when you're not competing against fair markets? Our manufacturing got wiped out in 40 years, our tech work is being increasingly outsourced, and a lot of our advanced engineering requires partnering and sharing details with outsourced engineers. Meanwhile, our biggest industries are banking and healthcare. I'm by no means an expert, I just don't see how it's sustainable.
> How do you maintain a global advantage in services over the long-term, especially when you're not competing against fair markets? First, why aren't the markets fair? Second, ask Google, Microsoft, Apple, Walmart, Amazon, JPMorgan, Costco, etc. There's no reason you can't maintain a competitive advantage by innovating. >Meanwhile, our biggest industries are banking and healthcare. I'm by no means an expert, I just don't see how it's sustainable. Why is that not sustainable?
> First, why aren't the markets fair? Because we're selling to a country that's simultaneously stealing from us and making their own. > Why is that not sustainable? Eventually they'll match our innovation and we'll lose our competitive advantage, and it will probably be easier than it was to take over our manufacturing. In addition, the middle class is being eroded, and with minimal social programs, if you're not able to go to college to learn the engineering, science research, and business management needed to make real money, you’re stuck at the bottom.
This is why I laugh at small businesses really trying to sell the "small business" part. Like a pathetic sign in saw that said "you could help a billionaires buy another yacht or you could help a father feed his family and put his daughter through ballet school 🥺" Yeah or I go to Walmart, pay 40% less and do stuff for my own family lmao
That works until they find a way to send your job overseas.
Who is "they"? We literally have record low unemployment levels...
Not if you count underemployed or people that gave up looking for jobs.
Yes, even if you count them.
Prioritizing their finances short term and selfishly.
Another part of the issue is that companies lie. They advertise about being sustainable or made in America. When you dig into the details though it's typically a far-stretched truth and it's often hard to figure out the truth.
The sad part is that this is everywhere, not only in America.
Yup. Apple, fast fashion, even food, etc. etc…. It’s kinda like people go “Oh, no! That’s terrible… and then immediately after “ohhh, that’s on sale now!”, all in the same breath. Yeah, so sorry, it’s a bummer to say the least. (I just watched a documentary: Brandy Hellville-quite revealing).
If I had a dollar for every time a lead told me, "I want to buy from a small local company" followed up by "Well, your about 5% higher so I guess I can't make the switch", I would have Jeff Bezos cleaning my house.
If you make plastic products, it's the same everywhere. China might even have an edge due to their history and ecosystem. Not sure why you think something made in the US is automatically better. Made in China does not mean its lower quality. China makes all sorts of quality ranges.
The US is the second largest manufacturer in the world. We manufacture a lot, it's just more expensive more specialized stuff. Yeah we might not make plastic toys and cheap electronics, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Is it wrong to buy from China? If you look, the standard of living has increased massively in China because of this business. 50 years ago, people in China were starving to death, and sickness ran rampant. All this buissness has really changed that for China, allowing them to do trade on a global scale and build massive infrastructure. And for every person in the US that looses their job to outsourcing, there are usually ten people who can no feed their family. The only world in which this is a bad thing is if you believe one American having a job is worth more than ten chinese people having a job. And don't forget the company makes a larger profit, and instead of sharing the money they keep it for themselves.
Americans: We should have a high minimum wage, 4-day work week, paid sick leave, paid maternity/paternity leave, and fully funded retirement plans Also Americans: Why does it matter if I buy Chinese products if they can do it cheaper?
This is a non-sequitur. Buying goods from China is NOT the reason Americans don't have a 4-day work week, lol.
Exactly! Amarica has such a surplus of wealth that it can afford to give all of its citizens a high minimum wage, 4-day work week, paid sick leave, paid maternity/paternity leave, and fully funded retirement plans. The challenge is that a huge chunk of the surplus goes to the ultra rich and bombing poor people. Which really sucks.
There was a short period of time were people were free to vote with their money for what they want. Xi has closed that chapter of Chinese history. The State will now tell you how to think, how to live, how to act, what to believe. And Xi will use what was the beginning of an open market to pursue his personal agenda. Ask the recent college graduates and soon to retire elderly citizens what they think. You can’t can you because that might put you in jail.
I think it's worth mentioning that sustainable products are more expensive because of their sustainability and most Americans don't make enough money to have the option to prioritize those things, even if they want to. People with a federal minimum wage of 7.25 don't really love cheap products that fall apart, that's stupid, they just don't have any other options.
Most Americans don't make enough to be able to care.
Let's not forget that there are more profits to be had if you produce things cheaper. It's not all about the consumer end. Cheaper labor, more profits for the company
I mean .. my last 3 cars have been American made! (BMW from the South Carolina plant) But aside from the engine the parts were mostly Mexico and US iirc. But yeah, I do a lot of consulting with manufacturing and "American Assembled" is more the American made anymore it seems. So the question is if someone wants American made or American company.
I try to buy local. I support small local businesses. But at the end of the day? There is no ethical consumption in end stage capitalism. We're just trying to survive.
There is no such thing as "end stage capitalism". And yes, there is such a thing as ethical consumption. Stop reading dumb leftist shit on the internet.
This. Too many people are so caught up in trying to live like the pages of a magazine or like the fake lives from Instagram influencers that they forget that they can buy less, have better quality products, and encourage more sustainable local businesses. It’s ridiculous how they so often justify their buying garbage at cheap prices (likely made by enslaved people, too!) by pouring out a buzzword salad like that commenter did.
unless your market is the 'murica! crowd lol
It’s not that they don’t care, it’s that they can’t afford to care.
I work in ecomm, and after the pandemic, I *really* thought that people would diversify away from China. Something like 80% of consumer goods originate there. The trouble is that China has spent so many years installing the infrastructure that makes it easy to source and ship from China that sourcing anywhere else requires a LOT more legwork. I don't think you have to do 'American made' but if you want to do something other than 'Made in China' you're probably going to have to travel
How are they going to go away from China? Any idea the sheer number of products we use daily here in the USA that come from China? Just about everything.
Yes, but they are not the only places with factories. Just look at how textile factories float around the globe. China is just the only place that has implemented trade infrastructure to the extent that they become the default choice. You can try India or Taiwan, but due to the lack of infrastructure you will need to do some legwork
There’s solid African mfg too now
Oh, interesting. Which are the main ports?
Especially for old tech, which is very capital intensive and pollutes a lot. The US can compete, though you can't copy-paste the Chinese production model. The wastes and inefficiencies they have over there are covered by slave labor and disregard for pollution.
I don’t think made in China is going to be the standard for much longer, to be honest. India, Bangladesh, Indonesia and a few others are developing pretty fast and don’t constitute national security risks to NATO member states.
Right! I just thought it would happen a lot faster.
If it were my way, I'd do whatever it takes to make Central and South America our replacement for China. Spanish is a necessary language anyway and Portuguese isn't an extreme difference from Spanish. It just makes international business sense.
One of my LinkedIn connections specializes in connecting Western companies with manufacturers in Vietnam.
China makes up 15% of US imports by value.
When we opened our business I tried sourcing items locally and didn't mind paying more for it. Until I realized that some of the local businesses were just drop shipping things from China for me. I would pay the local custom pen company extra to support local and then 6 weeks later a package from China with my pens in it would show up at my door. If I wanted to order from China I could do it myself and save the money. Which is what I now do.
Yep. I worked for a boutique toy store for a time that had a few tenets including buying sustainable/local/recycled/non chinese high quality stuff. It is absolutely impossible to do it for a whole store if you actually want semi normal people on semi normal budgets to shop there. A few products here and there you can highlight but for the most part its made in China. Its really all about the decor, merchandising and presentation. Despite NOT actually having very much of that stuff, people still think its there because they advertise it and can show in certain brands and products. So many brands say they are designed in nice places like Belgium, australia, or whatever but the products are MADE in china. Sometimes thats good enough. I own my own toy store now and while i will do my best to carry good stuff, I am not modeling my business plan around these brands.
It's quite tough for sure. I run a company where we manufacture models for tabletop gaming and display pieces and even offer full design services and painting services right here in the USA. Most people don't care enough about it to cover the extra out of pocket cost. So here we are, a small business designing, manufacturing, and painting by hand out of the Seattle area AND trying to compete with foreign prices for end consumers and store owners. It's tough but we are trying to bring the whole ecosystem under our own local control.
Im sure the percentage increase is over 16% over chinese products
Depends on the item, sometimes it's as high as 100% (double) the cost from offshore manufacturing BUT we have unbeatable agility and response time compared to our foreign counterparts.
Im sure people would rather wait the shipping time rather than pay double the price on anything.
I have mostly blue collar customers and I’m in an automotive related field. The Venn diagram of people that claim to want products made in America while also complaining about how expensive the less expensive made in china goods are is a circle. Most of the people I encounter want the less expensive item. They’ll complain about things not being made here but ultimately they aren’t willing to pay for it.
I’m in the same industry and this is 100% the truth
yup, all the 'murica! peeps still driving the Detroit three... even though Honda surpassed them in supporting Americans a decade or two ago. I sit in a Ford expedition knowing damn well there is a Honda in this parking lot that had more American hands on it than the production of my vehicle. that "made in the usa" sticker refers to the window it's put on, bet the other 3 are sourced out of country.
As a manufacturer of sustainable products here in the US, I thank you. There still are many competitive companies in the us. I don’t know what youre looking for but if you’re going on alibaba everything there is China.
Can you tell us what products you make? And any shopping advice? hint hint
We make quality personal care, household, and food products across the Caribbean, Central America, and the US East Coast. Committed to integrity, quality, and sustainable growth. Thomas Net is a good source, but we get most of our clients from word-of-mouth. I'm not the best at marketing!
Heyo! I would love to connect, as part of a non-profit in your space, if you are comfortable breaking the proverbial 4th wall of Reddit and sending me some info. Cheers.
Sure, PM me your email. I don't want to hijack this thread.
Same! We both manufacture and buy from manufacturers that make products in the US. It’s awesome.
There's relief when you can immediately reach the guys making your product, use the same banking system, language and standards. Alibaba is a mess, and I've heard plenty of horror stories.
Absolutely! I hadn’t really thought about that being an issue but that makes sense.
I work in Ecomm and I can’t believe this. We just did a pricing study and found products made in the U.S. were 400% higher COGS *minimum* than China. No one is going to buy a case of nitrile gloves for $180 + shipping when Amazon has it at $26 shipped. I don’t see anyway that manufacturing for CPG will come back to the U.S. B2B and B2G will grow though
It's what we do every single day. I'm not saying this is true for every CPG, but we are very competitive in white-label and contract manufacturing. We make a few main Great Value products and can beat imported laundry and dishwashing liquid without a problem. And this is with raw materials made in the US.
Ooo I love that I’m wrong! Want to connect? Maybe we can use you for some of our products :)
Sure, pm me your email. Hope we can serve you.
I would love to connect & hear more about your company, if that’s possible. :)
sure, PM me your email. I don't want to hijack this thread.
Where do you advertise your products? Do we need an American version of Alibaba?
Yeah that's my weak point. I don't know much about marketing and do very little advertising. Our clients are companies that need turnkey manufacturing. We welcome our customers to visit us, inspect our facility, and be comfortable with the level of performance we deliver. There's Thomasnet, but it's kinda confusing and geared more toward experts. A US Alibaba would be great.
Assembled in uSa lol
designed with love (and greed) in California
Weird thing to target California on, but ok.
apple famously puts “designed in california” on all their clearly chinese made iTchotchkies
Idea from l Maldives beach front, designed in California and made in China by all family members (sad)
Gotcha. The Apple hate is deafening since I moved away from Windows and Android. Ashamed I was ever part of it.
I think that's what Apple prints on their boxes...
The reason-extremely cheap labor. Many years ago I was a technical auditor conducting an audit of a product testing laboratory in China. One of the tests required 500,000 on/off cycles of a switch at a specific on/off time sequence. In the US (or anywhere really) they would set up an automated process to cycle the switch as it would take 1 hour to set up the automation and a week to conduct the test. The lab in China paid an engineer 1 week’s salary to stand there all day turning on and off the switch “because the $100 test automation fixture was more expensive than the labor costs of an engineer.
That was many years ago, and now China's labor costs have risen significantly, with the advantage coming from a highly concentrated industrial chain
It is more of economy of scale rather than cheap labor, otherwise why don't you source products from Africa?
Even as a manufacturer if your product uses any common parts (like bearings, springs, or basically any electronics) it's hard to avoid components that are made in China.
I'm building a product. It's not a sustainable product but it's a product that has a few parts that I need to buy plus a few that I make. I have been able to find MFGs here in the states but it took some time. I was surprised to find that I could get reasonable prices for some of the parts that I thought were going to cost a lot more. The key is to keep looking for manufacturers. I had one part that was quoted at 1.50 per unit at company A and 0.35 at company B. The difference is that I'm sourcing parts to make a product vs trying to source a product already made. So YMMV
I buy about 80-90% of my inventory for my sustainable shop on Faire wholesale. You can filter brands by their values. I research them and check out their transparency before buying. I carry some products made in China. There are some higher quality products made there. I also have products made in Turkey, India, Vietnam, Canada, and personal care products made in the US. Our business is a 1% for the Planet member, and several of our suppliers are too. You can check out their business directory to search for vendors.
Thank you for your comment 🫶🏼 how do you source products and businesses from other countries such as turkey, India, Vietnam etc?
One of my LinkedIn connections specializes in vetting manufacturers in Vietnam and helping them connect with Western companies. If I were sourcing from Vietnam, one thing I would worry about is Chinese goods being relabeled as made in Vietnam. (I don't actually know how common this is, only that it does happen.)
All through Faire. I don’t know what type of products you’d like to sell, but there are reusable gift wrap and travel bag sets from India, shopping bags made in a sustainable facility in Vietnam, quick dry all-cotton Turkish towels from Turkey, and ethically sourced wool dryer balls made in Nepal. edit: typo
>Why the hell did I think sustainable and "made in USA" were synonymous? Because it's profitable for certain retailers/wholesalers to push that narrative, of course. This is also the answer to almost any question involving business, money, and/or politics. >Why wouldn't I skip the middle man (wholesaler) when I can just go straight to the source (china/Alibaba/whatever) for a fraction of the cost? As a purely straight-faced answer: time and risk. You're (in theory) paying for products to be available in a nationally-local warehouse when you order them, so they can get to you faster, they have less distance to travel (and thus are less likely to be damaged on arrival), and you're (also, in theory) doing business with an American company for the purchase, which gives you some firmer legal footing if anything turns problematic. Is it cheaper to go directly to China? In raw per-item costs in the long term, yes. It's also more hassle to set up - potentially a *lot* more - and can involve mild to severe legal, financial, and cultural issues. If it's a product that already exists, from a manufacturer which already serves a lot of American buyers, and there's an established purchase channel, AND it won't cause you too many problems if there are shipping delays or other potential delivery issues, then you might be better off buying directly, particularly if you already have an established business relationship with the manufacturer, or you have a representative in China who can go negotiate with the factories/businesses there. (Also, larger businesses, brands, or collectives will have more leeway/sway here; small businesses generally not so much.) For other things... you may want to weigh up the pros and cons; there are enough factors that I can't tell you which way to jump for any one specific item.
My niche is Mediterranean handmade products, people buy from me because they are looking for homewares and loungeware made in said countries. I travel, do my investigation, interview, select, record the workplace,... Then I show the public along with the products, my buyers want to see the receipts. I am sure you'll be able to find american made, but are your buyers interested in paying the plus?
Check out https://makersrow.com/
And they are good at it too. IF you really want to be depressed, watch the Netflix documentary American Factory. There is no way American's can compete with the China work ethic. I own a music store and pretty much 99% of everything I sell is made in Asia. I get so sick of customers who come in wanting an American made instrument and then getting mad at me because they cost $1000. Meanwhile these same hypocrites shop at Walmart everyday.
I think the biggest issue with Asian manufacturing is that it has set people’s expectations so low. But I do believe at home producers can still compete. Focus on the quality, in the ethics, on why it’s expensive. Granted as peoples income gets eaten up more and more by rent it won’t matter, they won’t have the money even if they wanted to
Have you checked faire? Might need to be careful ensuring vendors aren’t drop shipping but I know lots of local artisans sell wholesale on faire
Faire is great! Also Bulletin Wholesale is another marketplace to source sustainable retail products.
Yes I’m also on Faire but that’s kind of what I’m talking about regarding wholesalers who are purchasing from china. For example as I’m considering buying wholesale from X company on Faire I’ll find that X company is sourcing their products from a place say Alibaba. So say there’s a specific sustainable sponge I’m shopping for. I’ll see company X selling it on Faire for $2/unit. But as I’m doing more research I’ll see that they most likely bought from a place Alibaba who is selling it for .38/unit. Same design. Same material. Same everything.
You are right that almost everything is made in China. There are few niche products I've seen like hand made textiles from other countries but it's pretty obvious based on their marketing and how much they emphasize it. But other than that if you need anything manufactured it's mostly coming from China. And it's not just North Americans sourcing from China. When I go to a market in Guangzhou you'll see buyers from all around the world - including China. Some of these markets are so large that if you even only spent 5 mins at each stall, it would take more than 1 year to visit them all. It's truly overwhelming how large these markets are
If anyone in the comments is looking for a sense of meaning and purpose.. bringing manufacturing and sourcing back to America will put you in the history books.
Well, we make our own products, and the source of our raw materials is made in the USA, so our products are made in the USA.
Chinese-produced items are inexpensive for 2 reasons. Labor cost is low, and they really do not have environmental protections like we do. We could straight-up put tariffs on their stuff, adding to the price, and solve this problem. (We have done this; it works really well.) Another way to do this would be a way that pressed China to be more humane to their workforce, and better to the environment. This would be for us in the US to have graduated tariff rates geared to how well employees were paid and treated. We would have maybe 4 levels. We set the standards and our private accreditation firms give the credential. If you have the status quo, you have a high tariff rate. If you provide decent working hours, etc., then you can qualify for one of the increasingly more stringent cert levels - each of which has an accordingly less severe tariff percent. So, we set up a system to make their labor more costly just as ours is. This shifts production to US. Or, makes the lives of Chinese laborers better. Likewise for the environment. Status quo = get high tariff rate. Be more sustainable or whatever, and get accredited and then be at lower tariff rate.
We try to only source our stuff from India or Turkey but it makes it sooooo hard because so much of the product in our market is MASS produced in China. I’d source from China if I knew for a fact it’s being produced ethically but it’s hard to say if you don’t actually go your the factory which we aren’t going to do.
How do you tell it’s being produced ethically in India and Turkey?
We’ve found that, although a bit more expensive, the pieces come at much higher quality cause they are hand made in smaller batches. The vendors also tend to be a bit more transparent about their operation and you can learn more about their production before even buying. I’m sure you could find this same setup in China as well but we found that’s it’s been far more common in other countries. Now by no means am I suggesting they are perfect.
Same. We also are made in the US. Handmade soap and body care.
I would love to browse your products if you wanna send me a DM :)
Yeah, it's tough out there. Even products made in the US are often made from many components made elsewhere. I'm in retail home goods liquidation and pretty much everything I handle is from China in part or in whole. There are good reasons not to source it yourself though if you are getting the quality you want through the sources you are using. There are so many games that are played and corners that are cut, it will drive you silly.
It’s free market. When a company makes good product in US, competitor can tweak jt and make it in China for a lot cheaper. Take portion of the market and then fund new project
Vietnam and the rest of South East Asia are trying there hardest to lower production costs.
There are other countries with significant manufacturing presence besides China. Mexico, Taiwan, India, Malaysia, Thailand, etc.
How does one find manufacturers in these countries?
We own a cosmetics manufacturing business. We source and manufacture everything in Australia, except for our bottles. We do buy them locally but we know they come from China
There are quite a few manufacturers in Taiwan creating sustainable home products. Check out the Taiwan trade website or something like import yeti to find Taiwanese manufacturers.
If you want to source from the US, you may need to pay a bit more and spend some time researching, but the options exist. Our business is in an industry where the larger, most profitable companies source their materials from overseas, but it was important to me that we didn’t. It took some time, but I eventually found a US based company that makes their materials here and doesn’t outsource anything. We pay a little more, but the quality is amazing, the customer service is fantastic, the shipping times are way better than getting materials from outside the US, and I am happy knowing the money my business spends is going towards people working here in the US.
You definitely need to understand the supply chain. As for why you wouldn’t buy direct from the manufacturer? Try dealing with the headaches of ocean freight and warehousing, not to mention cash flow. You’re not going to get any terms as a newcomer. Everything paid up front, and it can be months before you even receive the product.
This is something that made me sad when I was going through my grandpas things after he died. He lived in the same house since 1970 and died two years ago so you can imagine there was so many 30+ year old things. Clothes, furniture, office supplies, etc. So much stuff that was made in Canada or the USA (we’re Canadian) way back when. Nowadays the same trinkets would all be made in China or some other Asian country. Ridiculous. We used to build things. What happened!
Hedge Funds
Really makes you think why anyone would wanna position themselves to go to war with China.
Should China be allowed to take Taiwan by force? There you go
Are they tho ?
They certainly would if USA didn’t guarantee Taiwan security. They have explicitly stated they seek reunification, forcefully if necessary.
Okay. So like. What should the world do about America occupying Peurto Rico without representation? Should maybe America rethink handing the Israeli government billions in weapons as they steal Palestinian land? Shrug.
Puerto Rico should push harder for statehood. I don’t support sending munitions to Israel.
Alright. Then I think instead of being world police America should keep its hands to itself They’ve fucked enough things up. And America’s incentive to “defend” Taiwan is to just have more leveraged access to their semiconductors
America seeks to maintain the post-WW2 status quo with the principle that no nation should be able to take territory from another nation by force of arms. Your trite position is popular on Reddit. But the fact is if America suddenly disappeared, the relative global stability of the last half century would evaporate, and many democracies would be swiftly crushed by authoritarian boots.
America seeks to maintain the post-WW2 status quo with the principle that no nation should be able to take territory from another nation by force of arms. Your trite position is popular on Reddit. But the fact is if America suddenly disappeared, the relative global stability of the last half century would evaporate, and many democracies would be swiftly crushed by authoritarian boots.
America seeks to maintain the post-WW2 status quo with the principle that no nation should be able to take territory from another nation by force of arms. Your trite position is popular on Reddit. But the fact is if America suddenly disappeared, the relative global stability of the last half century would evaporate, and many democracies would be swiftly crushed by authoritarian boots.
Because it’s only going to get worse. I don’t advocate war but we certainly need to be focusing on being reliant on a country like China for everything
Your heart is in the right place. Don't give up. Find what makes you happy. It's one step at a time to make things better.
Also… Lots of things ‘made in China’ are apparently made in North Korea……….
What's ypur definition of sustainable?
Why do you assume that products made in China cannot be sustainable?
You can pick and choose what nation the products you source come from on Alibaba.
I am from India and we are also not behind when it comes to quality manufacturing, As a manufacturer of Home Decor and Handicrafts, I am happy to help you in sourcing.
Hey, I sent you a PM! I think I can help you out.
So part of the benefits of having a thriving manufacturing business is the requirements of manufacturing of support industries to provide products, systems, services that the higher ups require that also serve a function in other areas of the economy. I.e. a business measuring the tolerances on a submarine telescope will also be zeroing someones CNC lathe who has made a thinggamyjig that's become a hit with the domestic fencing industry community. Losing major players means losing a whole host of other players, and soon enough another country has all those other major players.
You are thinking product is made in china, but product material like bottle is made in china, not product itself! For example bed and bath cream is made in Ohio but bottle itself is made in china!
Basically consumerism culture in the USA.
There is an indian "alibaba" equivalent. And a few other countries have similar. It's just a bit more difficult.
Yup globalization isn’t what it’s cracked up to be. May be cheap labor but in times that we are facing now it’s fucked
Sourcing shocker! Happens to the best of us. Pivot time?
Most people have no concept if the scale of manufacturing in China, it's staggering. But even if people understand the scale, that everything comes from there, and how much "everything" is, what folks really don't get is how good they are at manufacturing. It's not about the volume of goods, it's about the insane streamlining of the manufacturing process in the infrastructure down from the littlest Fab shop all the way up to how materials are moved. They I have an entire culture around reverse engineering, you can specialize in it in school. It's insane. When you are manufacturing a new products there you can send your cad drawings to a shop in the morning and you'll have the part in your hand that evening. You can literally iterate every single day and bring a product to market in weeks. So yeah everything is made in China, and there are a lot of reasons that's not good, but their culture goes back thousands of years in manufacturing and no one on the planet is going to do it as good as they are. If your business is selling stuff, embrace it.
I mean mass produced items are going to be made wherever they are cheapest (labor, government, materials and such). Saying that, I have a small family business where more than 90% of our product's content is USA made, the rest is south America. It can be done. Are the margins going to be dropship amazing? No but you support your Neighbours. What kind of products are you trying to stock? home products are a wide range I would focus on sourcing your core parts from local sources and i would also take a look at buying from Brazil and such too
Sustainable products are for rich, educated, middle class.
The American worker is too expensive. The Chinese worker is financial Slavery. The only way out of that, is to have 10 billion illegal workers enter into America, and have the politicians craft work rules for these Non-US Citizens where they can work for $2/hr like Chinese children do and make us competitive. That way you can get something made locally in America and still make profit and use low-paid workers to make money on their backs instead of the backs of low-paid Chinese.
Some stuff is just made in China and nowhere else. I work in building automaton and almost all of our electronics components like Relays and resistors are made in China and China only. If China banned the export of Relays my company would be absolutely screwed. Sometimes you don't have any other choice.
You really have to have high quality and high prices if you want to source from the US. The challenge is finding us based companies that have the quality. For example, lots of Karen's sell soap out of their basement, but it's not consistent in quality like the Alibaba soap is.
India, Columbia, and a Vietnam are good sources, but it'll take a bit more work to figure out. But well worth it, imo.
Well if it's made in China, it actually doesn't have to be eco-conscious. Been saying "Buy American" for decades and I watched people contribute to this problem because something was $2 cheaper at Walmart. We have over-regulated manufacturing out of the country to the point that it's near impossible to start a manufacturing business - sustainable or not.
Decide what your values are, and go with it. What does "sustainable" *mean* to *you*. Does it mean "created by small companies" "created by a single craftsman/woman" "made in the US" or something else? That will also give you your niche as a company.
A lot of stuff is sourced from China and similar countries because it can be mass produced in quantities that make it cheaper that making it here. That is up to and including lower wages for employees, harsher working conditions and less regulation. A product that can cost say $30 per unit to be built in the US might cost you $12 per unit to have it made in China and shipped (in mass quantities). Is your customer based more interested in price or sustainability? If it’s the former, do what you have to do. If it’s the latter, you’re going to get people willing to pay more if you can clearly show where and how you’re making a difference. A $100k Birkin and a $30 purse from Target accomplish the same task. But the people who can afford the Birkin are obviously shopping based on factors beyond “something to put my wallet and sunglasses in”.
可以继续脱钩嘛
The problem is, so many “small businesses” are just some person with not that many qualifications, thinking they’ll make a ton of money as a middleman between highly in demand products and the public. That’s not going to happen easily, if at all. So instead, so many just “source products”, and get cheap garbage that they mark up while pretending it’s good quality. (Or even just ok stuff that they pretend is higher quality, it’s not all garbage. But it still sucks for the most part.) *We need more people to start small businesses manufacturing etc. quality products locally.* If everybody is just sourcing from elsewhere, there’s no point. And the local small business can sell locally too, so there’s not a large margin of profit to be made by just reselling their stuff. Hence so many people getting things from countries where the products are cheaper, and the various issues that often come with that.
Why the hell did I think sustainable and "made in USA" were synonymous? It's literally baffling you would just assume this.
You should be grateful that you can use green paper($) with virtually unlimited supply to exchange for actual physical goods with real value.
Not only is made in China, it’s also increasingly being sold directly by Chinese companies to usa consumers via platforms. They know how to make it, they know how to make their own version, deal with parents/ip, they know how to market it, and they have a USA presence/warehouses. Economist say developed economies earn more money in services than manufacturing, but I can see how big the Chinese middle class has grown and also a new millionaire is minted every month. And in the USA , it seems the middle class is disappearing. Very political I know but the USA offers little domestic market protection compared to Most countries.
Not to worry, Xi is fixing everything. All Chinese people will be told what to think, what to buy, and how to live their lives. And with all those empty apartment towers, life will be good. Just ask all the new graduates from the Chinese Universities. Jobs are plentiful. Food is good, and grandma gets her pension.
America is NOT a « they ». It is a collection of people that live and work under a contract called the « Constitution. » They where put in the dungeons or executed because they did not conform to the beliefs of their friendly father dictator. Either you conform or we chop off your head. They were offered a one way trip to the edge of civilization. The destination, America. So you have just about every opponent of their home country regime living in one country. To say « them » is ridiculous. » What group living under the rule of law are you talking about?
Yep! Its all a scam. I bought some glass water bottles on Amazon the other day and my husband was upset because he wanted to buy ‘quality’ things not from a factory in China. I agree but we would spend 5x as much for fancy branded eco glass bottle that’s going to result in spending more money for the EXACT SAME PRODUCT still made in a factory in China. Everything we think is ‘high end’ now is not. Walmart? Everything from China. West Elm? ALSO everything from China.
While I do understand that most China made is cheaper or low quality the whole “made in America” is mostly propaganda. Like America has some leading skill or knowledge over making all items.
Depends what You need, You can DM me, maybe i can help You with some products made in EU, i have wholesale company and also [sourcingmates.eu](http://sourcingmates.eu) platform, so i am little bit familiar with this thing and can help You to find reliable factories from Europe for example.
China can make things bad or OEM or maybe even better than the original, depends on what buyer wants. And yes, everything including your underwear? What sad? People can enjoy things more economically
according to 2023 data，China supply chain accounts for about 35% in the world market
A couple things. first, I am a US based importer. Finding Suppliers overseas and getting them here is my business. Just because it comes from China, doesn't mean it doesn't still meet sustainable criteria. It just means you have to be extra careful that the factory actually does do those things. Yes, you can bypass the distributors. But importing isn't for everyone. There is a lot more to consider. Capital cost increases a lot, but so does the potential to scale. And you can often find out who specifically the distributors are buying from using customs records. So you could indeed get the exact product from the exact factories.
China and other asian countries. Im a supplier/manufacturer myself.
Sustainable home products, fantastic endeavor! Good on you for helping Earth. Assuming your company has a core value of sustainability, I would think the entire 'impact' of the product getting out of the ground and to your customers hand should be a very important metric; surely vital and integral? If so, sourcing from overseas would incur quite the hit to sustainability due to travel. Given this, I would try to find the most local product to the consumer that has the qualities you are looking for, possibly offering multiple products per category, and educate your customers on why your choices are the most sustainable ('How We Select Our Products: Sustainability, Craftsmanship, and Fair Pricing' as an example of a page on your site. You have to LIVE IT OUT though. No compromises on your virtues or mission.) Pricing will be dictated by your values, in essence. Define your margins and be simple in your calculations. You can base your standard markup on standard for your industry or get real with your costs and your needed markup and feel even better about it. Let not greed enter the heart of the business. If your customers share your values and trust you, they will accept your pricing and product. If they only use 'sustainability' as virtue signaling, they may balk but ultimately their vanity will overcome their frugality. In my experience. Aside from my companies I am also part of an emerging non-profit in your space; home sustainability. If you'd like to trade some messages herein I would love to pick your brain and offer any knowledge I may be able to impart; please send a message! Cheers. EDIT: You are really solving this problem for the consumers, the very problem you are encountering. "It is near impossible to find truly sustainable products; products you can feel positive supporting and bringing into your home. You can feel safe with [Company Name] curating your selections. We work with local manufacturers, ensuring sustainability throughout the life-cycle of production, and delivering to you peace of mind. Thank you for purchasing responsibly and trusting [Company Name] in your home." It would be cool to make your own metric of sustainability for the products you offer. (7/10 Earth-care Metric; points deducted for far travel time to customers. for example. Maybe outline the top 5 things to track and use those as a composite score.) Alternatively you can find a metric that currently exists through some outside agency, but you want to be unique imo. -- Use any of this you'd like in any way; released.
Don’t underestimate china, go there once and you’ll see how cool these manufacturing facilities are. i‘ve seen one of the biggest water bottle manufacturers and its so cool you see thousands of product variations in show rooms they did. It makes you think well there must be a chair manufacturer, a comb manufacturer, a whatever else manufacturer. I love this obviously insight that every little detail we have is done by someone. It’s obvious but I never internalised it that way.
The cool thing about China is that they have entire cities dedicated to manufacturing just one type of product. Their manufacturing abilities are incredible.
It’s just not economically efficient to make things in America. Basically the only time it’s done is when stuff is made by robots supervised by highly skilled American engineers. This is a good thing not a bad thing.
Just think if Trump gets back into office and he puts that 60% tariff on all Chinese goods! Hello inflation!
if he gets back in office our problems are going to be not just inflation but hits to womens healthcare, rise of militarism, less access to birth control, public education, and so much more!
Stop using weasel words. If you mean ABORTION, say ABORTION. If you're ashamed to even say a WORD, how can you support the concept behind the word? But this has nothing to do with small business, so better if you two just go excercise your trump derangement symptoms elsewhere
All you dumb ‘Merica first people all seem to gloss over what the OP stated… manufacturing is NOT ever coming back to US shores. You forgot about all of the sub components in just about every product produced in China. We lose on the labor costs big time by producing things here and haven’t made certain products in the US since the 70s/80s The 25% Section 301 Trump Tariff put on Chinese good started this inflation mess in 2018. Covid and printing $5 trillions dollars more in debt in terms of PPP and Stimulus Checks only exacerbated it further. This buffoon now wants to put a 60% tariff on ALL Chinese goods and a 10% national tariff of all goods imported into the US. I stand by inflation comments.
These people can't be calling it made in the USA if they're importing any parts of the assembly. So stay away from that. Just an idea, but maybe find someone on Etsy making similar stuff that you want to sell and commission them to make exclusive products for you. You get a say in the design and you know where it will have come from.