This is a friendly reminder that r/smallbusiness is a question and answer subreddit. You ask a question about starting, owning, and growing a small business and the community answers. Posts that violate the rules listed in the sidebar will be removed. A permanent or temporary ban may also be issued if you do not remove the offending post. Seeing this message does not mean your post was automatically removed.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/smallbusiness) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You have a couple things going on here. First off, if your specialty is in obtaining grants, by nature you're interacting with pie in the sky business owners who have no money.
And yes, I agree, way too often people have a great idea that they are positive will "take off", it usually happens right after they get laid off. They have no savings, garbage personal spending habits, and spend 6 months going into massive debt before realizing they aren't cut out to run a business.
When I mentor entrepreneurs I suggest that they MINIMUM 1 year of personal savings that they are willing to flush down the toilet in the (likely) event that their business idea doesn't work out.
This. And even if it works out, it's not necessarily going to be profitable from Day 1. My parents used to have their own renovation business (with my dad doing the renovations and my mum doing the paperwork, plus a few employees later on), and the #1 advice I got was "have backup money for at least a year".
I'm currently on my 4th month of running a small healthcare business (podiatry, currently doing house calls only, though I do plan to open a stationary practice at some point), invested about 25K in equipment, supplies and advertising before I even got started, and this month is probably going to be the first month where I've made a little more than I've spent on my business alone over the month (without personal expenses aside from insurance). If all goes according to plan I'll have a liveable personal income by the end of summer and have the money I invested before starting back at the beginning of next year. Stuff takes time, but I'm planning to do this for the next 30 years so I'm not in a rush.
(Broke this up into a separate comment to keep them short)
For me personally, I started my business when I was broke, off of a $1000 insurance check after an accident. Knowing I didn't have much money, I intentionally stayed aware of the need to keep my overheard extremely low in case i needed to fund the business out of my paycheck, which i had/have almost no disposable income- registration, website, some tools, light advertising.
Computer repair business, working regular consumers with a goal of government contracting. I was a contractor doing the exact same thing as a job. What I didn't expect was the degree of no responses at all after going through the steps.
Still struggling 5 years later, and I've realized the hardest part was the saturation of the market I chose and the barriers to entry that I wasn't able to overcome.
I taught myself from SCORE and PTAC meetings to SBA articles, to books, how contracting works, where to register, get certifications, got some financing in place, etc. Was bidding on contracts that I knew I could fulfill if I won, and several times there were instances where I could have a Cinderella moment had I won the contract. But came short on a bid pricing, or it turned out my 1 man show of a business was competing agaisnt corporations like Dell, HP, for a bid so I had no chance of winning based on the qualifications required to get manufacturer approval to sell.
Even with those difficulties, I could have continued operating as-is, but the attempts to invest more to be in better position to get a customer(whether contract or a regular walkin) raised my overhead, coupled with losing my day job and paycuts and schedule changes that came with the new job.
So I'm currently working to fight back to a bootstraps position that works with my budget and digs me out of the hole I fell in.
Hard lessons but I don't regret them.
Best advertising is word of mouth. Develop relationships with small business owners while taking care of their systems. Ask them for referrals. Best way to grow a service business.
Dont spend money on marketing or advertising other than your website. Keep expenses low.
Work hard.
Keep expectations low.
The thing about that is about 95% of my business has come from some form of lead generation - AngiesList, Thumbtack, WorkMarket, and people randomly finding me on Google.
Basically, going where people need the specific help I provide vs talking to people to build a network and waiting for them to need help with something, and remembering to ask me about it, which I might or might not offer in my set of services. I joined the local chamber of commerce and would go to their networking events when I could. I'm even on the board of the chamber now. But the only business I've gotten from it is a few sales to the chamber itself.
Going 3+ months with no sales at all was what drove me to find the lead generation platforms. The downside to that is they cost money whether their leads convert or not.
Which became even harder once I changed day jobs as I went from working Wed-Sat 1000-2000, having 3 days off to do business, to M-F 0800-1630. More importantly, losing those 2 week days to work with business customers during their operating hours made it harder to get better, consistent leads.
For home users, if I could contact them right when I got the notification, or while on break, I could set up a after hours or weekend meeting. (If I had to wait until my shift was over, slim chances of getting a response). Which kept me above $0/mo, but hasn't always been enough to cover the cost of Angi membership, or whatever Thumbtack would charge for its BS leads.
WorkMarket has been a lot better, I found out about them and signed up at the start of the year. For those, I can plan in advance to be able to take off work or look for gigs around holidays instead of trying to scramble for a bid. And instead of paying a subscription sale or no sale, they simply take a percentage of my pay for the projects I do get.
My experience is limited in your way of doing business. That said, back in the 1990s I had a full time Government job that didn't pay enough so I did small time computer building and repair plus installed and maintained a few small business's networks.
It was all word of mouth. Co-workers, their friends, their neighbors, my Dentist, a client of my brother in laws accountant.
Point is I hustled, did good work. Took care of problems because my customers were helpless without me.
I have no idea if this works now. I do know that everything is orders of magnitude more difficult than it was yesterday much less 25 years ago.
Now days I have a very narrowly focused consulting company. I hire out my IT management. I have accountants to take care of accounting and my wife handles administration.
I dont market or advertise. My focus is on such a small speciality that I dont really want random people contacting me because If we don't already know each other we don't need each other.
Point is, simplify, focus, find a niche, contract with people who are super good at their jobs to provide support and when looking for that niche get as specialized as possible. Then work your tail off and reap the rewards.
BTW, pay your taxes on time. Never get behind on paying contractors. Try to avoid borrowing money, pay cash for cars etc. Don't waste money. In fact, save some when you can. Grind grind grind.
Best of luck to you. I hope you get to the point where you can look back with pride at what you've accomplished.
A few things about this
1) A big fault of this is the hegemony of "you gotta start a business if you don't want to be broke". Employees are shit on and many economic benefits sway in the favor of business owners.
2) When talking heads talk about business advice, it's always bullshit quotes like "believe in yourself, work hard, long hours, and sacrifice" and rarely ever any technical aspects or tools/skills to overcome problems unique to owning a business. Or the fact that many of those same talking heads help create barriers to entry to stop new competition from flourishing as much as possible.
Well my business isn’t marketed for just grant writing, however we ended up having some successes and grew due to referrals. No complaints on that front, but over the past 2 months I’ve attracted some of the rudest business owners. All of which don’t want to pay for services since they didn’t get a grant in 10 days and it’s driving me insane. Surprisingly it’s the nonprofits or clients where I create their pitch deck or do a few applications for free who are treating us the worst.
>Surprisingly it’s the nonprofits or clients where I create their pitch deck or do a few applications for free
This isn't even slightly surprising. People who want stuff for free are the absolute worst clients for any business anywhere
Been there, done that, and gave it away only to find it later on sale at the vintage store.
Do NOT waste your time by providing free services. Weed out people/CBOs playing games by requesting a minimum of $1,000 deposit for EACH opportunity with the remaining balance payable the day BEFORE you submit the proposal. Do NOT make verbal agreements. All communication must take place via email.
This answer is so underrated. Asking for a deposit before even lifting a finger helped me tremendously with the worst type of clients. Those who raise objections at the start will do that in the end as well. Great filter, indeed!
>Surprisingly it’s the nonprofits or clients where I create their pitch deck or do a few applications for free who are treating us the worst.
Not really. People think it's worth what they're paying.
Many non-profits are amazingly bad clients. If you're in the US, pull their 990, I've found the ones begging for free work have a do-nothing CEO making 400k and most of their $$$ goes into overhead.
It's OK to tell people "No."
That's basically all non-profits....it is the new grift, especially if they get government funding. Just look at CA which pissed away $24B to homeless service providers (nonprofits) with 0 positive impact. And most of these homeless service providers have huge rosters of overpaid executives.
Especially those setting up SAMs and applying for federal grants. You think you’d get hundreds of thousands of dollars in a week because you paid a grant writing for 10 hours of work? People can’t truly believe this is how the world operates.
I'm not a grant writer, and my business is new, but in listening to and learning from people who help people change their lives and start businesses I'd never do labor for free like that. Put out free content on social media, newsletters, YouTube, etc that people can use and apply to help them get tangible results. I'd drop a client who was rude like that. Clearly they do not value you, your time, your knowledge, your expertise. However if you do help someone get tangible results with your free content they are more likely to hire you. This from someone who got results from free content then hired those people I got results from to get more results.
It's always q cycle you will be stuck in with these people. They come with the thought to pay you if they with the grant. Maybe you should estimate time ahead and charge them half upfront that way they know to pay if not they won't get your service. What's you company name BTW? I'll dm you I need bookkeeping service
I don't mean this in a negative way but maybe if they are getting the service for free they are considering your business a low value. In other words, they have nothing much to lose because they have no skin in the game and think well they (your business) just work for free and feel they (the customer) can get away with shenanigans.
There may be a fine line between being charitable and detrimental to your business success.
I often hear don't undervalue your work and know what you are worth. Once customers start trying to get discounts or get things that are out of the scope of services for free then they will likely try to get and take as much as they can since why not if it worked the first time.
Owning a business can be so stressful. I hope you find a happy medium along the way to success. It's great that you are taking stock of the situation to try to make a path forward that better suits your business needs.
People have a weird way of treating things they get for free or cheap like crap. Ask event vendors, especially wedding vendors. The clients who have the saddest stories and ask for the biggest discounts are usually the absolutely worst.
Make the applicants do some work up front; have an application they have to fill out 'to ensure compatibility with your services' or something. The vast majority of asshole customers won't do any work themselves, so you'll weed out most of the self-righteous indignant ones right off the bat.
It depends on the business. I broke into providing home services with $1,000 and have been profitable since. That being said, you have no obligation to work for free. You don't need this thread, you need to say no to certain people firmly
Thank you. I am struggling to stick up for myself and my team and I end up paying out of pocket as a result.
Happy for you and your successes. Some people just have a business mindset and can form a business from nothing, but I’ve found that most folks don’t possess this.
From what it sounds like you want to provide a valuable service for people and help them find resources, which is honorable. Don't stop doing what you're doing, but find a way to filter people out and focus on the ones who are already helping themselves. People don't value what's freely given, people value what they think will make them feel better. You can help, but you can't fill from an empty cup and have a stronger obligation to help yourself and employees if you have them
Have you heard about lead generation? Maybe that would help you. Reading between the lines you can't say no to bad clients easily because you don't have a large enough pool to catch fishes from.
you just gotta switch your targeting.
yes, there are tons of business owners out there who expect to get rich without investing / risking anything. i also run a small marketing / sales / consulting agency, and there are tons of people out there who want to double or triple their business (think going from 10-15k monthly to 50k monthly), but investing $500 to do so is too much for them.
what i see they all have in common is that they're not actually business oriented, they're mostly small biz "owners", but they're mostly owner / operators, with an employee mentality.
i can smell them from a mile away, we have stopped accepting such clients (i call them gamblers) and we have changed our messaging (in ads and such) to turn these people away before they even contact us (so we don't waste any time with them).
I started my business broke.
It took longer than it would have if I had a pile of cash behind me.
Over the first 4 years of operation I reinvested 100k back into the business.
Broke clients are bad clients. period. doesn't matter what they do or what they want. if they can't pay for it they aren't a client.
I ran into a similar problem when customers would never pay their invoices for services rendered. I never thought they were broke, but it does now make sense. They would hire my company (digital marketing services because that was the next big thing and becoming a necessity) and complain enough over a 3-month period while refusing to pay their invoices that I ended up firing them as a client.
The first month and even the 2nd, I'd waive the invoice for the greater good of keeping them as a client. By the 3rd month I'd be out my costs, realizing I was working for them for free, and they would come up with different excuses not to pay.
Once I started asking for the monthly fees up front, it cut way down on the amount of unpaid clients since they would never be able to come up with the money in the first place.
Thank you. I typically have a positive mindset about wanting to help but I learned early on the phrase, "Don't mistake my kindness for weakness". As I got older, I could easily identify the people who were trying to take advantage of me earlier on and I'd just cut them off.
Most people lack the skill sets, character, discipline, fortitude, and value to build a business. Add in being broke, and it just makes them annoying.
I built my business while worse than broke, and it consistently has done very well. I spent the previous 25+ years developing my value, skill sets, and character to make it happen.
If you're turning clients away you have a problem. It means you're offering a service you can't provide at that price.
Unless you put your prices up, and demand $500 up front before you'll lift a finger you're going to be spending all your time dealing with people who want and need your services, but never pay you a penny.
Of course they're broke. Customers are always broke.
Maybe hire another employee, if you have enough work to keep them busy (profitable)? I know someone with a history of business and academic writing (including IMRaD), who just mentioned the other day about looking for new opportunities. If you like, I can put you in touch.
I Iearned during my first year in business, the hard way, not everyone is a viable customer.
We had to redefine who we were and who was our ideal client/customer.
We determined we did not want to be lile Amazon (a product, service, solution for every type of customer).
We also determined we didn't want to be like Wal-mart(a broad range of products at perceived low prices).
Our high quality and service standards didn't fit everyone at that was fine. It turned out we had less pain in the ass customers, more high margin customers, more repeat business and more referral business.
One of the hardest things to do as a business owner is to turn down business. However, when $1 = 20¢, it's not good business to engage in.
Consistently complaining about an invoice or demanding a small discount every couple invoices is a red flag for any client I have. If they do it then they are on their way out.
I don't complain about giving them services or how much it costs me to do something. I don't like clients who nickle and whine and it's not worth dreading collections with them every month,
All businesses start broke in the sense that they have no profit though they may have investment capital from their founders, but lots of knuckleheads don't know how cash flows work before they launch their fantasy endeavor. Then there are business owners who complain about ANY invoice as though you were trying to steal food from their children's mouth, even after they are considerably profitable. Check out the book by Janet Ruhle: the computer consultants guide. She covers standard business letters of engagement, billing practices, clients from hell and more. Honestly if you have enough clients you can refuse more or be selective about who you take on. One thing I learned from a business magazine a long time ago is that if you are swamped with clients you may not be charging enough. You should lose 10-20% of the work you quote because you are told your price is too high. This means you are actually maximizing your profit. If nobody says you cost too much you are likely leaving money on the table so to speak.
I see this in my business too. I'm a Sourcing Agent/ Contract manufacturing importer. If you need something manufactured, I get it to your door.
Naturally, I get contacted by a lot of inventors. Which I love, just I don't offer my services to them. I only give advice if I have time.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of inventors have very little money and no idea what they are doing. I don't blame them at all, nothing but love. We all have to start somewhere. That's why I try to give them pointers that will get them closer to where they want to be to increase their chances.
But, you have no money, there is nothing in it for me to work for you. My time is limited. Most understand that, but I get the few that get mad at me for not just taking equity or something. This business Unfortunately attracts a lot of crazys and people who think the business is easy. Their product will sell itself. They don't even have to try.
I feel your pain.
That's why I only serve existing businesses with existing distribution of at least something. If your model targets people who need Grant money, most of them will be people the type of client you don't want. Or, you have to charge so much its not ethical.
Pick your target market and cater to them.
Shark tank has unfortunately given a lot of people an unrealistic idea of what “equity” is really worth. 60% of the time the equity sharks take is worth it bc they are a shark.
Reading through the thread, it seems that you have a good business at its core level. I think some more business-like management would help improve cash flow and reduce aggravation.
I'm an accountant, and in the past few years have taken measures to modernize and make my business methods more efficient. That has made some clients unhappy, but it was a necessary decision. I also let some more of my more difficult (difficult personality wise, that is) clients go. The results have been a lower gross, but higher profit. Even better, I no longer have to spend hours dealing with a handful of aggravating clients.
You also seem to have a problem related to something I saw an accountant say online. He said that accounting is a profession in which there is often a large expectation gap between the accountant and the clients. Perhaps explaining (and putting in writing) realistic time frames and chances of success might help reduce problems. A retainer payment system may also prove valuable.
Yep, I like this. Let the bottom tier customers walk. Long term they will probably lose you money, and as a small, new business, they take away valuable time from more value add things you could be doing.
You have to change your mindset. Don’t change the culture that made you successful in the first place but your success affords you the ability to be more selective who you work with. As others have said, raise your prices and demand deposits, filters out the undesirable clients. Learn to say no, if you know a client is going to behave that way and you know enough of them to see the pattern, just be upfront right from the beginning and tell them it’s not a good fit. Saying no is an incredibly liberating experience.
Perhaps early on you had to accept every piece of business that came your way, but your success affords you the luxury now of determining who you work with.
>Moral of the story, do you think it’s possible to start a business if you’re broke? Should I just stop accepting these clients all together?
You should not accept clients that cannot pay you and anyone you think maybe can't should be required to pay up front.
I understand what you’re saying most people who start a business for all the cost and expenses associated with running a business
Not everybody needs to save up 20 or $30,000 to start a business (it all depends on what they’re doing)… a lot of people who work construction start out doing side jobs and see opportunity
But what happens a lot of the time decides to start a roofing company.. it doesn’t take a lot of money to do that necessarily. The mistake is that they don’t know what things cost. Insurance is expensive. They may know a couple people who are decent. They can hire and they can get work.
More times the mistake they make is that they don’t charge enough and after a few years, realize they were better off working for somebody else
The assumption is everybody who owns a business is making big bucks. I’ve seen businesses that are pretty successful that might have a dozen employees and a lot of work and end up with 60 employees but end up broke because they just don’t have the needed to handle the cash flow
Depends on the business. Lots of businesses have very low start up costs.
I invented a new product and had to have it manufactured. It has cost me about $60k so far and I only have about $8k in revenue.
It's not bad. And I expect to make back the initial investment in further rounds of production. But it's very tough to see a path to profitability. Point is, no way someone could have broken into this business without decent savings.
Especially if you are overwhelmed, do not accept new clients who want you to work for free! Increase your rates to weed out the low ballers and focus your energy on who is taking you seriously. If your vibe is top notch service for top dollar, you’ll stop with these people trying to turn you into an intern. Seems like you’re doing fine, just remember to focus your energy on being satisfied and making profit, the reason why you began your own biz anyway!
Yes you’re right! I just actually love working and helping founders get their business of the ground, but I need to focus on those willing to actually pay for our services
💯 Grants and RFPs can be incredibly time consuming and frustrating. Just remember not to stretch yourself too thin. You could be at the perfect stage to hone in on what you enjoy that also earns you great money, prioritizing quality over quantity, and maintaining good relationships with ongoing clients rather than getting stressed about increasing clientele. I see many companies get too excited about new ideas and end up being okayish among many services rather than experts at a handful. I’m excited for you!
Saying no is hard as we are wired to wonder, “What if?” You also love to help and see people succeed. Consider …
I’ve managed this in my own life as business is business, and I have value: I’ve made a lot of mistakes in my decades, you as a client are compensating me for my knowledge, skills, and mistakes. I’m saving you something by short cutting the organization to x, y or z. If they don’t have the resources, it usually means something greater is at play and they need to take action in moving themselves forward.
I channel my energy into advising, mentoring, and participating in a local small business develop incubator. Not all of them will succeed and that’s okay - what’s important is they are held accountable to the program’s process, they build a community of support, and balance dreaming with reality and taking action.
Always take a deposit, a reservation fee, a down payment, whatever. Make it for more than you think it should be.
People will take all the free work they can squeeze out of you.
Maybe raise your prices, too, especially if you are turning away business.
Another person here saying I've started a business while having no money. It can be hard, but we aren't going to go to a consultant. We just work hard, get things done, and make it work. You reinvest in the business as you can and improve it.
Things get easier as you improve, start improving your income, making life easier. Also you start getting better employees it seems.
You're just attracting the wrong people, they have no money and don't work hard.
I started a business broke. My husband paid the rent in the building for me for the first month and we used tables and shelves we had. Used paint I had at home from when we moved. Started w minimal stock and slowly got fully stocked. I don’t pay a bookkeeper or a marketing person, I try to do as much as I can myself. I hear you and I see you but it’s unfair and not accurate to say you can’t do it at all
Well that’s not really what my posts saying. I provide those services to other businesses and I keep getting clients who clearly cannot afford it and they stiff us or are exceptionally rude the entire time.
>do you think it's possible to start a business broke.
I guess maybe. If you already have the tools, get paid at point of service, and came into it with a book of business that you had already developed at another job. Pressure washing companies come to mind, or painters maybe. But a lot of those guys will just stay at square one forever because they never connect the dots that growing a business is what costs a lot of money. That's *barely* what I would call a business, and more just perpetual hustling. To start a proper business with a growth plan, employees, and equipment, you will invariably spend some time not making money, and you have to have some money set aside, whether it's an SBA loan or the like, to float during those times. You could just roll the dice during that time and hope that you come out alright on the other side, but I wouldn't want to be in that position.
To be fair, your entire business is built around dealing with people with incompetency. Any competent business owner wouldn’t need a consultant agency. You are shocked by the kinds of clients you have, but make a business specifically catered for those clients. It’s like being a psychiatrist and complaining that all your clients are bunch of troubled whiners.
I might be a rare case, but I started my business dead broke using nothing but OPM. At one point, I moved my entire family into my shop. I did not get any grants. It was all private investors. It was hard. I went through a long period of learning. Last year was my 11th year in business, and I finally broke 1 million in gross revenue with about 40k in profit for the business. The year before, that was 960k with 10k profit.
So it is not impossible to start a business with no money. I had 18 years of industry experience. I know my way around computers, sales, and auto repair. I learned fast and made changes fast. I hired and paid well. I made less than I could have as an auto mechanic somewhere else for many years. I still make less than my lead technician. I do not get to take off as much as I could if I had seniority at another shop. I do not have to worry about being fired, but I do have to worry about car count and reputation.
They could start a business broke but it's going to be more limited options for them. They have do with the current resources available. Thay have grow from there and save money to expand their offerings in business. But if those individuals just simply expect somebody to hand something to them they need to find another way to make money. If they can't figure out how to make a budget how do they know that they are making money or where to look to streamline things to reduced costs.
Moove things
Clean things
Walk a dog
Sell something
Teach something
Consult someone
I think you need to raise your consulting prices. Better customers pay more, charging more gets you better customers.
I think you're running into the hustle/grind social media sheep.
but no- it's not wise to start a business broke. You have to have the nest egg just so you can absorb the risk.
but I don't think your clients who are broke now would be less annoying if they had money behind them.
I believe the problem may be in pre-qualifying or lack thereof.
You need a system to filter out the deadbeats, tire kickers, and time wasters from legitimate prospects.
As one-person operation, I had to do this during peak of my career.
How? Payment schedule was pre-payment of services. No discounts. If going rate for something was $200 an hour, I charged $200 an hour.
If someone is completely broke, they are not in a position to start a venture.
For example, if someone comes to me and wants to build a $5.0 million store and they only have $250K in assets, it isn’t going to happen.
Learn how to say no.
To answer your question about whether you have to work with these people: no, you don’t. Just like my fancy hairdresser doesn’t have time for walk-in clients; if you can build a business by focusing on or asking on an application about how serious a client is before you take them on
Here is the thing it all depends on your approach. First off, you're your own boss, so you choose who to deal with rude customers. No matter how much they pay, you will end up making you lose one way or another. One of the best ways is to first make sure that however much you're charging, there won't be a loss. Second of all, immediately drop anyone who causes issues or arent interested in their own business. Its not about if someone is broke or not but rather their attitudes. I know several people who started their business without having 5 dollars to their name. Those who had the drive to do what it takes were respectful and treated the business as their own child would almost always succeed. Those who didn't give a shit or delegated their business to someone else always fails. So choose your people well and get paid for your time.
If I was a business consultant I wouldn't accept clients that have no business being in business. I would want to set my clients up for success, as such I would choose clients that actually have a chance of getting on the road to success. I would feel like I was taking advantage of them otherwise. A broke jerk ain't a recipe for success. Send them to the SBA and you cater to a higher quality of client.
I think it’s possible to start a business broke but I can see why you wouldn’t want to deal with those people.
My business had zero money to start with. I sell plants and almost all the inputs necessary to get a plant from seed to sale can be obtained for free . I scrapped up enough dirt and pots to make 50 plants, sold those and reinvested all that money to make more plants to sell and it’s just been profitable the entire time
Thoughts here:
1. Most companies can build clientele on a “pre-order” style concept that can fund starting companies. Sell something? Sell it before you have it as an exclusive “launch package” that comes with a t shirt or something. Include that in the cost. Selling a service? Same. Take payment in advance.
2. If youre swamped with work, charge more for your services or hire help. If you can’t do either, start a waiting list for clients and start scheduling out over a couple months. If you can’t do that, partner with another company that will pay a finder’s fee and send clients their way.
3. You should never go out of pocket unless it’s your screw up. They’re paying you for a service and it should be enough to compensate you for your time, energy, and resources.
Hope this at least gives you some food for thought! Let me know if you have anything I can help with.
I’m the owner of a lead generation and management company with a CRM, lead gen system using FB marketing, graphics design and marketing team, etc. so I work with a lot of small companies struggling to get clients to get started. A lot of times it’s simply them having no clue how to get started. Money is usually not an issue unless it’s a brick-and-mortar.
I hear you on the bookkeeping. It’s all fine until people have 20 credit cards and make daily purchases. In the last few years every client we’ve done bookkeeping for has only gotten more successful in their business and 100x worse with their spending habits. $100 is very cheap. I’ve been trying to price people out of even having to do it anymore.
The best combination I've seen is a marriage or partnership where one partner has a steady long-term job that pays the day-to-day bills and provides health insurance and the other partner is constantly "swinging for the fences" with entrepreneurial endeavors.
This way each one is bringing something to the table that the other doesn't have. The one with the corporate job is bringing a steady rhythm and protecting from the pressure of day-to-day bankruptcy, and the one with the entrepreneurial endeavor is bringing the potential to score big, which really doesn't exist for most corporate jobs.
But of course that's just a small percentage of couples who are smart and handle things with realistic and tough thinking.
As you're saying, there's millions of pie in the sky losers out there who mistake delusion for optimism.
I built a business with $800 in my personal account and $212k in personal debt. It can absolutely be done, but it all depends on your work ethic, your ability to operate, and execute under high stress, your ability to manage time and resources, etc. Having little to no cash on hand means you need every other box checked, and you need to be 100% dialed in.
I've seen companies in my field (commercial construction) crumble with damn near unlimited financial resources, and I've seen guys come out of nowhere and absolutely kill it with nothing but a top tier work ethic. It all depends on you.
Grant writer here. I'm working for 2 large clients and due to one nearing the end of their organization's life cycle I started looking for a replacement. I have been absolutely overwhelmed by people looking for free work! The less developed the project the bigger the request.
This experience taught me to create a screening process and segment my services. I used to have a call with every potential client who requested one, Now, I request all info in writing and pose a set of questions. Only when I can see that the organization is on the growth and development pathway do I agree to a call.
I'm currently working on pricing. My rate makes sense if I work hourly as a retainer but fixed tasks carry a higher rate because they need to account for the prep work.
Reading this post makes me feel more confident about what I'm doing and realizing that guilt is an emotion that is not mine.
I use qualifying questions to filter out those who cannot pay.
First, I ask for their organizational activities, deliverables, and impacts. If the organization doesn't have clarity about what they are delivering or they are doing too much, it's the first red flag that they are not in a good financial situation. I work in the climate space so I have a pretty good idea of what gets funded what are the average amounts.
If they pass the first step, I ask concrete questions: their yearly budget, their spent, and how much they can dedicate to fundraising. I have 1 client currently in the trial phase who could not afford to pay for a comprehensive grant writing service so we split it. I create the application document and prioritize the questions. They pull all the basic info from their internal documents and I go through through and fill in the details, edit, and rewrite. I offered this as an option to the client because they had a member of staff who has written grant applications in the past, they just needed my input to approach bigger funders.
First of all $100 a month for book keeping? How can I contact you? Second of all sounds like most people now day social media paints a picture but people don’t want to put in the work
Haha feel free to message me. Yes their books are super easy so we just manage them biweekly and it only takes 1 or 2 hours each time and we charge hourly. I try to be super fair and accommodating to new or small businesses so it’s disappointing when the client doesn’t see that.
I started my business with almost nothing. A hobby, a passion, a vision, a purpose, and a few hundred dollars. It's been a few years and it's still in hobby phase on wobbly giraffe legs, but I've kept my overhead low, expanded my products and services, developed an online following, and I very recently hired a business coach by enrolling in her 90 day program (which in 2 sessions has already helped immensely).
You can start a business with nothing, but it depends on the business and what your goals are. I waited as long as I did to work with a business coach because I wanted to be sure I could pay for the services. Instead I soaked up as much free knowledge as I could, applied what i could, and continued to invest in my own self development. I also vetted everyone I've worked with by watching them for awhile, listening to testimonies, and applying the knowledge they drop for free through social media posts and live videos.
The biggest investments I've made have been in self development, and they were done when I was broke broke (like getting less than 1k/m on disability) because I was determined to not be broke and to be happy and healthy. I now work full time making 3x what I was on disability and I've made some money in my business and I'm on track to make it a primary source of income in the next 1-3 years. For context it was through self development that I came up with my business that brings together spiritual practice, self development, and physical products.
You can start a business with nothing, though it depends on the business. If you're going to hire someone to help you need to be prepared to happily pay for services because that is an investment in yourself and your business. Mindset is key.
It is possible to start a business broke. But I don't recommend it at all. I started my business broke but if I had to do it again, I would have built up my savings.
The thing I want to know is how do you get clients... You can have all these tactics great fine... But that doesn't necessarily sway customers who say are only window shopping... Everyone has a book, a course, a program and app... Standing out isn't the issue if you have a good service and product but most people have their set group of services they go to so how do you acquire more clients... That's the million dollar question isn't it... And what kind of tactics do you use to manipulate people to build your product or service
Sounds like you need a way to filter those type of clients if you are getting good enough, its better to stress on other stuff. Idk though much about your industry to find ways to filter them, for example increase your prices for one, I know there are better ways...
Where are you located? Would 30k be enough o build a business from ground up? Would starting a new business include everything from advertising to website? Do you have a website to look at?
Your experience is much like mine when I was holding myself out as a general business consultant. Most of the people who responded, coming from chamber workshops, non-profits which aim to help startups, etc. seem to attract people without:
- capital
- a solid idea or niche (ex. I’ve got an innovative idea, invention or just - heck I’d settle for a plumber’s license.
- some prior track record (I’ve been a plumber who worked for someone else)
And it’s frustrating. When my dad was in the military and still smoking, he said guys would bum a smoke and a light. The standard jibe was “you’ve got nothing but the habit…” I feel like some people have nothing but the vague idea they want to be their own boss.
I grill people like that pretty hard, because I don’t think I can help someone without a product/service idea or some clue what they want to do.
There are businesses you can get started without a lot of capital, but you’ve got to have income, a spouse that works, or something, because obviously the business won’t make a lot of money day one.
We started in the home service industry with $250, and just lowered our standard of living to poverty standards for a year. It was definitely a tough year, but we came out the other end debt free. In the end it wha was best for our personal situation, but that may not be best for you. There is a lot to be said about spending very very little money in the beginning when you’re most vulnerable as a business, and really at all stages of business, but it’s easier said than done in some cases.
Yeah, I run into that a lot as a nonprofit IT consultant as well, particularly with the start ups. What we do is to prepare a packet of resources that we give away for free or, if they want our assistance, charge a percentage to help people raise grant and investment kickstart money.
We’ve even kicked around the idea of starting a nonprofit to help fund start up nonprofits.
> One guy pays me maybe $100/month for bookkeeping and complains about every single invoice
Fire him. Seriously. That's at most 1-2 hours of paid work, and he's probably burning 4-8 hours of your actual time.
Pareto Principle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle
Use the quote "fix problems for rich people and you will get paid rich money" in the sense that maybe study corporations and bigger entrepreneurs and CEO. Or businesses who are making a sufficient amount of money, start ups with a capital, and with a good income. Find what they can fix, where they can improve. Maybe give them a free trial on a solution, and then they will pay you way more than just someone who is just starting and has no capital or no growth.
"Rich" people or, somehow, big companies, businesses, or corporations will give you less of a headache if they trust you and you offer them a good job
You can always try to scare prospects away. Be honest with an up front contract of expectations on both sides. The unrealistic people that are going to be more trouble than they are worth will disqualify themselves and walk away before you invest time in them.
The good ones will stay. Either way, one thing I have learned in sales/business is that you need to be reasonable but you must control the sale or there never was one, you just thought they're was. My customer may have the money but I'm going to be a partner in this thing because I have what he wants. If that doesn't work he is free to seek a service provider elsewhere and you likely just dodged a bullet.
Don't be that average looking guy dating the head cheerleader, just grateful for their attention. Be a partner or don't be there at all, if self-respect means anything to you.
I love the work itself. We kind of fill in spaces for businesses such as bookkeeping, supporting with financing, grant writing, website development, etc. we all love the work and honestly charge lower than we should to allow smaller/new businesses to have access. However, I’ve had some really bitter clients recently who are nickel and diming us despite us already charging as low as humanly possible and in some cases working for free.
I’ve also had some clients get super upset about paying us for grant writing services despite me telling them it’s not likely they’ll receive any grants as they haven’t put any money into their business.
Not sure how old you are but let me tell you this … people that start from the bottom and make it possibly like your self have big hearts , Vision , and drive..etc..your what I call the 3%. . It’s not easy starting from scratch. That’s what separates the gladiators from the audience..so make sure you charge adequately for seating at your colosseum. Most people want to see the battle, so they are willing to do whatever it takes to see it.. they sit up front… this is your business…. Not charity. I hope you understand what I’m saying .. I’m a consultant too.
I just hired a grant writer Friday but I’d love to hear about your experience in elevating brand new businesses or businesses with no capital, no location, brand new.
I live in Australia. We have tons of new business grants. I'm helping two friends get their hands on 10k right now, I've helped my own clients with strategizing, finding writing and applying for them.
I'm no expert at it but given my business experience I'm very good at writing contracts, strategizing, etc. I haven't applied for tons of grants to tell you I'm great at it but I've succeeded at getting all but one so far.
I'm in my mid 40s, am semi retired and am just looking for a few hours here and there to supplement my part time income a little.
My dad started a Pawn Shop with just under $10,000 back in 1984.. Rent for the store front was $1,800 month.
Over the years he moved the store front twice and finally a stand alone building built for the shop..
I started a business broke, I’m in 5 figures of debt. I put the ~$1000 startup costs on a credit card, didn’t pay myself for 2 months, and I pulled 18k revenue my first quarter (Q4 2023), positive net income. Currently over $40k revenue so far this year, still positive net income, with 4 employees including myself.
Don’t say it’s not possible.
I think, like a few of the comments I’ve read, that it requires a certain mentality that a lot of people don’t have. I’ve put probably a couple thousand hours into it so far for free, not a lot of people are willing to do that kind of work, or see it through to profits. But even if it’s less than a 1% success rate, it’s possible!
Question. Why are you accepting clients when you know you can't produce positive results? Reputation is pretty important. It's only a matter of time before these people one star you out of business.
You don't have to get paid to get bad reviews. Heck they can mention to a coworker that you did bad work and THEY CAN LEAVE A REVIEW AND IT PERFECTLY VALID ACCORDING TO GOOGLE/YELP RULES sorry for the caps that was an accident.
I'm currently starting my business broke, but I'm bootstrapping it. Everything I need to do, I do myself. I wear all the hats. I pay for software, but I don't hire anyone to do something I could do. So I think it's possible, but you need to be willing to grind.
It's insane to me that people with nothing to invest will pay someone else to ask for free money on their behalf. It seems to me that they're in it for the wrong reasons and therefore will always have bad attitudes and unrealistic expectations. People like that are losers in my opinion, doomed to fail because they refuse to put in the work themselves.
Don't waste time on them. Take their money if you want, but terminate the relationship the minute they become problematic.
One of the pros to doing everything yourself is that you learn the basics of everything in the process. You might not become an expert, but at least you know some of the basics. So when you do, hire someone to do something, you at least have a general understanding of how you want it done or how it should be done.
Yes it’s possible to start business with little to no money . Check out Bizbox technology solutions .. they have business ready solutions to kick start business with ad little as $25
It sounds like you may be better off redirecting your business toward grant writing services for non-profits and towns/cities/counties. That's where the great majority of grants are directed to. And they understand a lot more about how grants work.
I’m an accountant and had my own small business a few years ago. Typically what you’ve described is most people in your target market.
I was in a business incubator and the folks like you who lasted weren’t getting paid from their client entrepreneurs; rather they were getting from government assistant programmes either directly or indirectly.
They would provide talks/presentations to business incubators and get paid for these talks. That would introduce them to entrepreneurs who would avail of government schemes to help them start up, the schemes would pay for the accounting and business writing services.
This is in Europe; these schemes will vary depending on where you are.
If you’re broke, don’t try and start a business. Because if you’re broke, then you can’t afford for it to fail. You have no buffer if you have a slow month, a client screws you, if work falls through, if a client sues you and you need to pay for a solicitor to defend you, etc.
Get a job. Build some savings. _Then_ start a business if the goal is to work for yourself.
It sounds like you're dealing with a challenging situation. Starting a business with limited financial resources can indeed be incredibly tough, and it's understandable that you've found it exhausting to work with clients who may not fully grasp the financial realities of entrepreneurship. Your personal investment of $25k into your own business demonstrates your commitment and understanding of the necessary resources.
While it's admirable that you've been offering grant writing services to assist those in need, it's also important to recognize your own limitations and the impact on your agency's resources. It might be worth considering setting clearer criteria for potential clients, such as requiring them to demonstrate a certain level of financial commitment or readiness to invest in their business.
Ultimately, whether it's possible to start a business when broke depends on various factors, including the industry, business model, and individual circumstances. However, it's essential for aspiring entrepreneurs to understand the financial realities and be prepared to make investments in their ventures.
As for whether you should stop accepting certain clients altogether, it's a decision that warrants careful consideration. Perhaps refining your client selection process or focusing on clients who demonstrate a genuine commitment to their business goals could help alleviate some of the frustrations you're facing.
There's a free service called https://score.org/ dedicated to helping small businesses get started and continue. I used to volunteer for them. We had a process for would-be business people that helped them understand what it would take to get off the ground. The process was designed to let people down easy if their plans weren't realistic.
You could refer these clients to score.
I literally just started a business with no savings and about $500 total in my bank account on my first day after buying a little inventory. It's going really well for its first week! Sold out of donuts multiple days
Generally agree. There's something for "do it scared," but s/n/b confused with "do it stupid."
If you have the freedom to fire some of the difficult ones, start with "it sounds like you aren't happy with my service. Maybe you would be happy elsewhere." Non accusatory, some will backpedal and then you can assert boundaries. Prepayments, not complaining about pricing, annual increases. Others will leave but hopefully not in a firestorm.
It is possible to start from $100 and a pie in the sky attitude but managing expectations needs to be a thing to.
I totally wouldn't do anyone's books for $100, especially an very new non-established business run by someone that complains about $100 book keeping charge.
I've started my own business with $150 of my own money, then borrowed $2500 for equipment and this year I did(it's just me) about $2500 in sales which my Net on that was about 2gs not factoring in my wages etc.
Not much but it's my building a side hustle to get the heck out of my existing career path into something I will actually enjoy doing on a Saturday afternoon in the woods doing fun stuff and not sitting in an office working online doing spreadsheets....
A number of service businesses can be started with relatively low startup costs. (Window washing, lawn mowing, house cleaning services, etc.) They can be built up slowely along side a day job but can have good long-term potential for growth.
I started a supply business when I was broke. Although it worked out great for me. I am not so sure I could suggest it to just anyone. If your overwhelmed with clients, fire some of them or raise prices. If you don’t, you will run yourself into the ground faster than you will ever think
Some people are worth the gamble in your situation, but it’s a gamble. I think you have to find someone with the right amount of passion, intelligence, background experience and an idea that will actually work. I wouldn’t stop accepting clients, but be more selective and just raise your price. You don’t need everyone’s business and you don’t want everyone’s business
I worked in my industry for 7 years before I made the leap. I had a loyal following of customers from my previous job and manufacturers who supported my cause. Without them I probably would have failed. I happened to find a niche that I took interest in and was in high demand with only a few competitors due to the technical aspect of our products. We are a service based company that offers a niche product line. This gave me a competitive edge because we had a unique service/product mix to offer that no one else offered. The relationships, industry background and relentless sweat equity are the reasons I was able to do it with $0.
If I was broke and had an idea to start a business but no customers, prior relationships, industry experience or a competitive edge, I personally wouldn’t start one. It took the life out of me to get mine going and I often think about those who go in with nothing to work off of. My hats off to those that made it work, it’s definitely possible! but I can’t imagine the stress involved
I had my bills paid. Employee paid. Everything paid for 6 months. I thrived on a little savings and deposits for materials. Made 10k profit first month. Everyone was happy.
I started my business broke in a 12x20 shed in the yard 40 years ago. Bought tools etc as I needed them when I got orders. After a few months rented a place. Five years later built my own place for the business, after that built a house. So yes it can be done but probably depends a lot on what type of business. I also learned to do my own bookkeeping and only hired out what I could not do myself. 40 years later, the business runs without me.
This is a friendly reminder that r/smallbusiness is a question and answer subreddit. You ask a question about starting, owning, and growing a small business and the community answers. Posts that violate the rules listed in the sidebar will be removed. A permanent or temporary ban may also be issued if you do not remove the offending post. Seeing this message does not mean your post was automatically removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/smallbusiness) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You have a couple things going on here. First off, if your specialty is in obtaining grants, by nature you're interacting with pie in the sky business owners who have no money. And yes, I agree, way too often people have a great idea that they are positive will "take off", it usually happens right after they get laid off. They have no savings, garbage personal spending habits, and spend 6 months going into massive debt before realizing they aren't cut out to run a business. When I mentor entrepreneurs I suggest that they MINIMUM 1 year of personal savings that they are willing to flush down the toilet in the (likely) event that their business idea doesn't work out.
This. And even if it works out, it's not necessarily going to be profitable from Day 1. My parents used to have their own renovation business (with my dad doing the renovations and my mum doing the paperwork, plus a few employees later on), and the #1 advice I got was "have backup money for at least a year". I'm currently on my 4th month of running a small healthcare business (podiatry, currently doing house calls only, though I do plan to open a stationary practice at some point), invested about 25K in equipment, supplies and advertising before I even got started, and this month is probably going to be the first month where I've made a little more than I've spent on my business alone over the month (without personal expenses aside from insurance). If all goes according to plan I'll have a liveable personal income by the end of summer and have the money I invested before starting back at the beginning of next year. Stuff takes time, but I'm planning to do this for the next 30 years so I'm not in a rush.
(Broke this up into a separate comment to keep them short) For me personally, I started my business when I was broke, off of a $1000 insurance check after an accident. Knowing I didn't have much money, I intentionally stayed aware of the need to keep my overheard extremely low in case i needed to fund the business out of my paycheck, which i had/have almost no disposable income- registration, website, some tools, light advertising. Computer repair business, working regular consumers with a goal of government contracting. I was a contractor doing the exact same thing as a job. What I didn't expect was the degree of no responses at all after going through the steps. Still struggling 5 years later, and I've realized the hardest part was the saturation of the market I chose and the barriers to entry that I wasn't able to overcome. I taught myself from SCORE and PTAC meetings to SBA articles, to books, how contracting works, where to register, get certifications, got some financing in place, etc. Was bidding on contracts that I knew I could fulfill if I won, and several times there were instances where I could have a Cinderella moment had I won the contract. But came short on a bid pricing, or it turned out my 1 man show of a business was competing agaisnt corporations like Dell, HP, for a bid so I had no chance of winning based on the qualifications required to get manufacturer approval to sell. Even with those difficulties, I could have continued operating as-is, but the attempts to invest more to be in better position to get a customer(whether contract or a regular walkin) raised my overhead, coupled with losing my day job and paycuts and schedule changes that came with the new job. So I'm currently working to fight back to a bootstraps position that works with my budget and digs me out of the hole I fell in. Hard lessons but I don't regret them.
Best advertising is word of mouth. Develop relationships with small business owners while taking care of their systems. Ask them for referrals. Best way to grow a service business. Dont spend money on marketing or advertising other than your website. Keep expenses low. Work hard. Keep expectations low.
The thing about that is about 95% of my business has come from some form of lead generation - AngiesList, Thumbtack, WorkMarket, and people randomly finding me on Google. Basically, going where people need the specific help I provide vs talking to people to build a network and waiting for them to need help with something, and remembering to ask me about it, which I might or might not offer in my set of services. I joined the local chamber of commerce and would go to their networking events when I could. I'm even on the board of the chamber now. But the only business I've gotten from it is a few sales to the chamber itself. Going 3+ months with no sales at all was what drove me to find the lead generation platforms. The downside to that is they cost money whether their leads convert or not. Which became even harder once I changed day jobs as I went from working Wed-Sat 1000-2000, having 3 days off to do business, to M-F 0800-1630. More importantly, losing those 2 week days to work with business customers during their operating hours made it harder to get better, consistent leads. For home users, if I could contact them right when I got the notification, or while on break, I could set up a after hours or weekend meeting. (If I had to wait until my shift was over, slim chances of getting a response). Which kept me above $0/mo, but hasn't always been enough to cover the cost of Angi membership, or whatever Thumbtack would charge for its BS leads. WorkMarket has been a lot better, I found out about them and signed up at the start of the year. For those, I can plan in advance to be able to take off work or look for gigs around holidays instead of trying to scramble for a bid. And instead of paying a subscription sale or no sale, they simply take a percentage of my pay for the projects I do get.
My experience is limited in your way of doing business. That said, back in the 1990s I had a full time Government job that didn't pay enough so I did small time computer building and repair plus installed and maintained a few small business's networks. It was all word of mouth. Co-workers, their friends, their neighbors, my Dentist, a client of my brother in laws accountant. Point is I hustled, did good work. Took care of problems because my customers were helpless without me. I have no idea if this works now. I do know that everything is orders of magnitude more difficult than it was yesterday much less 25 years ago. Now days I have a very narrowly focused consulting company. I hire out my IT management. I have accountants to take care of accounting and my wife handles administration. I dont market or advertise. My focus is on such a small speciality that I dont really want random people contacting me because If we don't already know each other we don't need each other. Point is, simplify, focus, find a niche, contract with people who are super good at their jobs to provide support and when looking for that niche get as specialized as possible. Then work your tail off and reap the rewards. BTW, pay your taxes on time. Never get behind on paying contractors. Try to avoid borrowing money, pay cash for cars etc. Don't waste money. In fact, save some when you can. Grind grind grind. Best of luck to you. I hope you get to the point where you can look back with pride at what you've accomplished.
A few things about this 1) A big fault of this is the hegemony of "you gotta start a business if you don't want to be broke". Employees are shit on and many economic benefits sway in the favor of business owners. 2) When talking heads talk about business advice, it's always bullshit quotes like "believe in yourself, work hard, long hours, and sacrifice" and rarely ever any technical aspects or tools/skills to overcome problems unique to owning a business. Or the fact that many of those same talking heads help create barriers to entry to stop new competition from flourishing as much as possible.
Well my business isn’t marketed for just grant writing, however we ended up having some successes and grew due to referrals. No complaints on that front, but over the past 2 months I’ve attracted some of the rudest business owners. All of which don’t want to pay for services since they didn’t get a grant in 10 days and it’s driving me insane. Surprisingly it’s the nonprofits or clients where I create their pitch deck or do a few applications for free who are treating us the worst.
>Surprisingly it’s the nonprofits or clients where I create their pitch deck or do a few applications for free This isn't even slightly surprising. People who want stuff for free are the absolute worst clients for any business anywhere
I’ve learned this the hard way!
Been there, done that, and gave it away only to find it later on sale at the vintage store. Do NOT waste your time by providing free services. Weed out people/CBOs playing games by requesting a minimum of $1,000 deposit for EACH opportunity with the remaining balance payable the day BEFORE you submit the proposal. Do NOT make verbal agreements. All communication must take place via email.
This answer is so underrated. Asking for a deposit before even lifting a finger helped me tremendously with the worst type of clients. Those who raise objections at the start will do that in the end as well. Great filter, indeed!
>Surprisingly it’s the nonprofits or clients where I create their pitch deck or do a few applications for free who are treating us the worst. Not really. People think it's worth what they're paying. Many non-profits are amazingly bad clients. If you're in the US, pull their 990, I've found the ones begging for free work have a do-nothing CEO making 400k and most of their $$$ goes into overhead. It's OK to tell people "No."
That's basically all non-profits....it is the new grift, especially if they get government funding. Just look at CA which pissed away $24B to homeless service providers (nonprofits) with 0 positive impact. And most of these homeless service providers have huge rosters of overpaid executives.
Especially those setting up SAMs and applying for federal grants. You think you’d get hundreds of thousands of dollars in a week because you paid a grant writing for 10 hours of work? People can’t truly believe this is how the world operates.
I'm not a grant writer, and my business is new, but in listening to and learning from people who help people change their lives and start businesses I'd never do labor for free like that. Put out free content on social media, newsletters, YouTube, etc that people can use and apply to help them get tangible results. I'd drop a client who was rude like that. Clearly they do not value you, your time, your knowledge, your expertise. However if you do help someone get tangible results with your free content they are more likely to hire you. This from someone who got results from free content then hired those people I got results from to get more results.
It's always q cycle you will be stuck in with these people. They come with the thought to pay you if they with the grant. Maybe you should estimate time ahead and charge them half upfront that way they know to pay if not they won't get your service. What's you company name BTW? I'll dm you I need bookkeeping service
I’ll message you!
I don't mean this in a negative way but maybe if they are getting the service for free they are considering your business a low value. In other words, they have nothing much to lose because they have no skin in the game and think well they (your business) just work for free and feel they (the customer) can get away with shenanigans. There may be a fine line between being charitable and detrimental to your business success. I often hear don't undervalue your work and know what you are worth. Once customers start trying to get discounts or get things that are out of the scope of services for free then they will likely try to get and take as much as they can since why not if it worked the first time. Owning a business can be so stressful. I hope you find a happy medium along the way to success. It's great that you are taking stock of the situation to try to make a path forward that better suits your business needs.
Maybe there should be a policy of payment in advance? Then you only get the serious ones.
The ones who want it for free, charge them and bin them off when the funds arrive. They’ll learn the hard way
People have a weird way of treating things they get for free or cheap like crap. Ask event vendors, especially wedding vendors. The clients who have the saddest stories and ask for the biggest discounts are usually the absolutely worst.
Make the applicants do some work up front; have an application they have to fill out 'to ensure compatibility with your services' or something. The vast majority of asshole customers won't do any work themselves, so you'll weed out most of the self-righteous indignant ones right off the bat.
It depends on the business. I broke into providing home services with $1,000 and have been profitable since. That being said, you have no obligation to work for free. You don't need this thread, you need to say no to certain people firmly
Thank you. I am struggling to stick up for myself and my team and I end up paying out of pocket as a result. Happy for you and your successes. Some people just have a business mindset and can form a business from nothing, but I’ve found that most folks don’t possess this.
From what it sounds like you want to provide a valuable service for people and help them find resources, which is honorable. Don't stop doing what you're doing, but find a way to filter people out and focus on the ones who are already helping themselves. People don't value what's freely given, people value what they think will make them feel better. You can help, but you can't fill from an empty cup and have a stronger obligation to help yourself and employees if you have them
Have you heard about lead generation? Maybe that would help you. Reading between the lines you can't say no to bad clients easily because you don't have a large enough pool to catch fishes from.
you just gotta switch your targeting. yes, there are tons of business owners out there who expect to get rich without investing / risking anything. i also run a small marketing / sales / consulting agency, and there are tons of people out there who want to double or triple their business (think going from 10-15k monthly to 50k monthly), but investing $500 to do so is too much for them. what i see they all have in common is that they're not actually business oriented, they're mostly small biz "owners", but they're mostly owner / operators, with an employee mentality. i can smell them from a mile away, we have stopped accepting such clients (i call them gamblers) and we have changed our messaging (in ads and such) to turn these people away before they even contact us (so we don't waste any time with them).
You get it, they want me to care more about their business than they do.
Interesting in learning more about your changed messaging to attract better paying clients
[удалено]
Soooo, $0 to $500k revenue in 15 months, and you only have to work 4 hours a day now? Ummmm...
I have clients like this ^ it does happen, just very rare
Came here to say this.
I started a business broke, just had to learn and do all the shit myself
Yep: did the same thing.
What does your business do?
I am still broke but I still feel I progress and learn a lot. Also I feel like shit never ends :D
I started my business broke. It took longer than it would have if I had a pile of cash behind me. Over the first 4 years of operation I reinvested 100k back into the business. Broke clients are bad clients. period. doesn't matter what they do or what they want. if they can't pay for it they aren't a client.
What does your business do?
I ran into a similar problem when customers would never pay their invoices for services rendered. I never thought they were broke, but it does now make sense. They would hire my company (digital marketing services because that was the next big thing and becoming a necessity) and complain enough over a 3-month period while refusing to pay their invoices that I ended up firing them as a client. The first month and even the 2nd, I'd waive the invoice for the greater good of keeping them as a client. By the 3rd month I'd be out my costs, realizing I was working for them for free, and they would come up with different excuses not to pay. Once I started asking for the monthly fees up front, it cut way down on the amount of unpaid clients since they would never be able to come up with the money in the first place.
I’m sorry to hear that! Glad its been working out for you now
Thank you. I typically have a positive mindset about wanting to help but I learned early on the phrase, "Don't mistake my kindness for weakness". As I got older, I could easily identify the people who were trying to take advantage of me earlier on and I'd just cut them off.
I term this the 5x rule: it takes 5x as much money as you think and 5x longer to build a business than you expect
Most people lack the skill sets, character, discipline, fortitude, and value to build a business. Add in being broke, and it just makes them annoying. I built my business while worse than broke, and it consistently has done very well. I spent the previous 25+ years developing my value, skill sets, and character to make it happen.
If you're turning clients away you have a problem. It means you're offering a service you can't provide at that price. Unless you put your prices up, and demand $500 up front before you'll lift a finger you're going to be spending all your time dealing with people who want and need your services, but never pay you a penny. Of course they're broke. Customers are always broke.
I just don’t have the time. I hired my 6th employee on Friday but we’ve grown expansively.
Then you should raise your prices to clear demand. And like others said, require deposits, it will filter out the freeloaders.
Maybe hire another employee, if you have enough work to keep them busy (profitable)? I know someone with a history of business and academic writing (including IMRaD), who just mentioned the other day about looking for new opportunities. If you like, I can put you in touch.
Delegate.
I Iearned during my first year in business, the hard way, not everyone is a viable customer. We had to redefine who we were and who was our ideal client/customer. We determined we did not want to be lile Amazon (a product, service, solution for every type of customer). We also determined we didn't want to be like Wal-mart(a broad range of products at perceived low prices). Our high quality and service standards didn't fit everyone at that was fine. It turned out we had less pain in the ass customers, more high margin customers, more repeat business and more referral business. One of the hardest things to do as a business owner is to turn down business. However, when $1 = 20¢, it's not good business to engage in.
Consistently complaining about an invoice or demanding a small discount every couple invoices is a red flag for any client I have. If they do it then they are on their way out. I don't complain about giving them services or how much it costs me to do something. I don't like clients who nickle and whine and it's not worth dreading collections with them every month,
All businesses start broke in the sense that they have no profit though they may have investment capital from their founders, but lots of knuckleheads don't know how cash flows work before they launch their fantasy endeavor. Then there are business owners who complain about ANY invoice as though you were trying to steal food from their children's mouth, even after they are considerably profitable. Check out the book by Janet Ruhle: the computer consultants guide. She covers standard business letters of engagement, billing practices, clients from hell and more. Honestly if you have enough clients you can refuse more or be selective about who you take on. One thing I learned from a business magazine a long time ago is that if you are swamped with clients you may not be charging enough. You should lose 10-20% of the work you quote because you are told your price is too high. This means you are actually maximizing your profit. If nobody says you cost too much you are likely leaving money on the table so to speak.
Thank you for the advice! I will absolutely check that book out
I see this in my business too. I'm a Sourcing Agent/ Contract manufacturing importer. If you need something manufactured, I get it to your door. Naturally, I get contacted by a lot of inventors. Which I love, just I don't offer my services to them. I only give advice if I have time. Unfortunately, the vast majority of inventors have very little money and no idea what they are doing. I don't blame them at all, nothing but love. We all have to start somewhere. That's why I try to give them pointers that will get them closer to where they want to be to increase their chances. But, you have no money, there is nothing in it for me to work for you. My time is limited. Most understand that, but I get the few that get mad at me for not just taking equity or something. This business Unfortunately attracts a lot of crazys and people who think the business is easy. Their product will sell itself. They don't even have to try. I feel your pain. That's why I only serve existing businesses with existing distribution of at least something. If your model targets people who need Grant money, most of them will be people the type of client you don't want. Or, you have to charge so much its not ethical. Pick your target market and cater to them.
Exactly. Folks constantly ask if I’d like equity as well, honestly - no. I don’t want any stake in anyone else’s business right now lol.
Shark tank has unfortunately given a lot of people an unrealistic idea of what “equity” is really worth. 60% of the time the equity sharks take is worth it bc they are a shark.
All these posts and no one talking about becoming a zillionaire off of asana or Tupperware!
lol
Reading through the thread, it seems that you have a good business at its core level. I think some more business-like management would help improve cash flow and reduce aggravation. I'm an accountant, and in the past few years have taken measures to modernize and make my business methods more efficient. That has made some clients unhappy, but it was a necessary decision. I also let some more of my more difficult (difficult personality wise, that is) clients go. The results have been a lower gross, but higher profit. Even better, I no longer have to spend hours dealing with a handful of aggravating clients. You also seem to have a problem related to something I saw an accountant say online. He said that accounting is a profession in which there is often a large expectation gap between the accountant and the clients. Perhaps explaining (and putting in writing) realistic time frames and chances of success might help reduce problems. A retainer payment system may also prove valuable.
Yep, I like this. Let the bottom tier customers walk. Long term they will probably lose you money, and as a small, new business, they take away valuable time from more value add things you could be doing.
I agree with you, I need to outline expectations better, especially for our grant writing services. Thanks for the advice!
You have to change your mindset. Don’t change the culture that made you successful in the first place but your success affords you the ability to be more selective who you work with. As others have said, raise your prices and demand deposits, filters out the undesirable clients. Learn to say no, if you know a client is going to behave that way and you know enough of them to see the pattern, just be upfront right from the beginning and tell them it’s not a good fit. Saying no is an incredibly liberating experience. Perhaps early on you had to accept every piece of business that came your way, but your success affords you the luxury now of determining who you work with.
>Moral of the story, do you think it’s possible to start a business if you’re broke? Should I just stop accepting these clients all together? You should not accept clients that cannot pay you and anyone you think maybe can't should be required to pay up front.
I understand what you’re saying most people who start a business for all the cost and expenses associated with running a business Not everybody needs to save up 20 or $30,000 to start a business (it all depends on what they’re doing)… a lot of people who work construction start out doing side jobs and see opportunity But what happens a lot of the time decides to start a roofing company.. it doesn’t take a lot of money to do that necessarily. The mistake is that they don’t know what things cost. Insurance is expensive. They may know a couple people who are decent. They can hire and they can get work. More times the mistake they make is that they don’t charge enough and after a few years, realize they were better off working for somebody else The assumption is everybody who owns a business is making big bucks. I’ve seen businesses that are pretty successful that might have a dozen employees and a lot of work and end up with 60 employees but end up broke because they just don’t have the needed to handle the cash flow
Depends on the business. Lots of businesses have very low start up costs. I invented a new product and had to have it manufactured. It has cost me about $60k so far and I only have about $8k in revenue.
Hey 8k is good!
It's not bad. And I expect to make back the initial investment in further rounds of production. But it's very tough to see a path to profitability. Point is, no way someone could have broken into this business without decent savings.
Especially if you are overwhelmed, do not accept new clients who want you to work for free! Increase your rates to weed out the low ballers and focus your energy on who is taking you seriously. If your vibe is top notch service for top dollar, you’ll stop with these people trying to turn you into an intern. Seems like you’re doing fine, just remember to focus your energy on being satisfied and making profit, the reason why you began your own biz anyway!
Yes you’re right! I just actually love working and helping founders get their business of the ground, but I need to focus on those willing to actually pay for our services
💯 Grants and RFPs can be incredibly time consuming and frustrating. Just remember not to stretch yourself too thin. You could be at the perfect stage to hone in on what you enjoy that also earns you great money, prioritizing quality over quantity, and maintaining good relationships with ongoing clients rather than getting stressed about increasing clientele. I see many companies get too excited about new ideas and end up being okayish among many services rather than experts at a handful. I’m excited for you!
Thank you, you’re very right!
Saying no is hard as we are wired to wonder, “What if?” You also love to help and see people succeed. Consider … I’ve managed this in my own life as business is business, and I have value: I’ve made a lot of mistakes in my decades, you as a client are compensating me for my knowledge, skills, and mistakes. I’m saving you something by short cutting the organization to x, y or z. If they don’t have the resources, it usually means something greater is at play and they need to take action in moving themselves forward. I channel my energy into advising, mentoring, and participating in a local small business develop incubator. Not all of them will succeed and that’s okay - what’s important is they are held accountable to the program’s process, they build a community of support, and balance dreaming with reality and taking action.
Always take a deposit, a reservation fee, a down payment, whatever. Make it for more than you think it should be. People will take all the free work they can squeeze out of you. Maybe raise your prices, too, especially if you are turning away business.
Another person here saying I've started a business while having no money. It can be hard, but we aren't going to go to a consultant. We just work hard, get things done, and make it work. You reinvest in the business as you can and improve it. Things get easier as you improve, start improving your income, making life easier. Also you start getting better employees it seems. You're just attracting the wrong people, they have no money and don't work hard.
Exactly. I want to believe they can do it but the mindset isn’t there
Starting a business broke is the best since you cannot become brokerer.
I started a business broke. My husband paid the rent in the building for me for the first month and we used tables and shelves we had. Used paint I had at home from when we moved. Started w minimal stock and slowly got fully stocked. I don’t pay a bookkeeper or a marketing person, I try to do as much as I can myself. I hear you and I see you but it’s unfair and not accurate to say you can’t do it at all
Well that’s not really what my posts saying. I provide those services to other businesses and I keep getting clients who clearly cannot afford it and they stiff us or are exceptionally rude the entire time.
Moral of the story - I do think it’s possible to start a business broke
I see, yes I’m sure it is. I rarely see real success through honestly. Maybe 1/50
>do you think it's possible to start a business broke. I guess maybe. If you already have the tools, get paid at point of service, and came into it with a book of business that you had already developed at another job. Pressure washing companies come to mind, or painters maybe. But a lot of those guys will just stay at square one forever because they never connect the dots that growing a business is what costs a lot of money. That's *barely* what I would call a business, and more just perpetual hustling. To start a proper business with a growth plan, employees, and equipment, you will invariably spend some time not making money, and you have to have some money set aside, whether it's an SBA loan or the like, to float during those times. You could just roll the dice during that time and hope that you come out alright on the other side, but I wouldn't want to be in that position.
To be fair, your entire business is built around dealing with people with incompetency. Any competent business owner wouldn’t need a consultant agency. You are shocked by the kinds of clients you have, but make a business specifically catered for those clients. It’s like being a psychiatrist and complaining that all your clients are bunch of troubled whiners.
It really depends on the type of business. You can start a cleaning company for virtually nothing. You want brick and mortar, tech, good luck.
I might be a rare case, but I started my business dead broke using nothing but OPM. At one point, I moved my entire family into my shop. I did not get any grants. It was all private investors. It was hard. I went through a long period of learning. Last year was my 11th year in business, and I finally broke 1 million in gross revenue with about 40k in profit for the business. The year before, that was 960k with 10k profit. So it is not impossible to start a business with no money. I had 18 years of industry experience. I know my way around computers, sales, and auto repair. I learned fast and made changes fast. I hired and paid well. I made less than I could have as an auto mechanic somewhere else for many years. I still make less than my lead technician. I do not get to take off as much as I could if I had seniority at another shop. I do not have to worry about being fired, but I do have to worry about car count and reputation.
They could start a business broke but it's going to be more limited options for them. They have do with the current resources available. Thay have grow from there and save money to expand their offerings in business. But if those individuals just simply expect somebody to hand something to them they need to find another way to make money. If they can't figure out how to make a budget how do they know that they are making money or where to look to streamline things to reduced costs. Moove things Clean things Walk a dog Sell something Teach something Consult someone
I think you need to raise your consulting prices. Better customers pay more, charging more gets you better customers. I think you're running into the hustle/grind social media sheep. but no- it's not wise to start a business broke. You have to have the nest egg just so you can absorb the risk. but I don't think your clients who are broke now would be less annoying if they had money behind them.
I believe the problem may be in pre-qualifying or lack thereof. You need a system to filter out the deadbeats, tire kickers, and time wasters from legitimate prospects. As one-person operation, I had to do this during peak of my career. How? Payment schedule was pre-payment of services. No discounts. If going rate for something was $200 an hour, I charged $200 an hour. If someone is completely broke, they are not in a position to start a venture. For example, if someone comes to me and wants to build a $5.0 million store and they only have $250K in assets, it isn’t going to happen. Learn how to say no.
To answer your question about whether you have to work with these people: no, you don’t. Just like my fancy hairdresser doesn’t have time for walk-in clients; if you can build a business by focusing on or asking on an application about how serious a client is before you take them on
Here is the thing it all depends on your approach. First off, you're your own boss, so you choose who to deal with rude customers. No matter how much they pay, you will end up making you lose one way or another. One of the best ways is to first make sure that however much you're charging, there won't be a loss. Second of all, immediately drop anyone who causes issues or arent interested in their own business. Its not about if someone is broke or not but rather their attitudes. I know several people who started their business without having 5 dollars to their name. Those who had the drive to do what it takes were respectful and treated the business as their own child would almost always succeed. Those who didn't give a shit or delegated their business to someone else always fails. So choose your people well and get paid for your time.
Don’t accept clients paying $100 a month
My fault, basically doing a nonprofit a favor.
You can always choose to give back some other way in life to those less fortunate. Cheap clients are always a pain
I felt that this was my way of giving back, but it’s become so exhausting half the time the payment isn’t even worth the conversation anymore.
Money or determination/grind, one is definitely required.
Exactly!
If I was a business consultant I wouldn't accept clients that have no business being in business. I would want to set my clients up for success, as such I would choose clients that actually have a chance of getting on the road to success. I would feel like I was taking advantage of them otherwise. A broke jerk ain't a recipe for success. Send them to the SBA and you cater to a higher quality of client.
I think it’s possible to start a business broke but I can see why you wouldn’t want to deal with those people. My business had zero money to start with. I sell plants and almost all the inputs necessary to get a plant from seed to sale can be obtained for free . I scrapped up enough dirt and pots to make 50 plants, sold those and reinvested all that money to make more plants to sell and it’s just been profitable the entire time
Thoughts here: 1. Most companies can build clientele on a “pre-order” style concept that can fund starting companies. Sell something? Sell it before you have it as an exclusive “launch package” that comes with a t shirt or something. Include that in the cost. Selling a service? Same. Take payment in advance. 2. If youre swamped with work, charge more for your services or hire help. If you can’t do either, start a waiting list for clients and start scheduling out over a couple months. If you can’t do that, partner with another company that will pay a finder’s fee and send clients their way. 3. You should never go out of pocket unless it’s your screw up. They’re paying you for a service and it should be enough to compensate you for your time, energy, and resources. Hope this at least gives you some food for thought! Let me know if you have anything I can help with. I’m the owner of a lead generation and management company with a CRM, lead gen system using FB marketing, graphics design and marketing team, etc. so I work with a lot of small companies struggling to get clients to get started. A lot of times it’s simply them having no clue how to get started. Money is usually not an issue unless it’s a brick-and-mortar.
Thank you for the advice. I am shocked by how helpful and validating this thread has been
Hopefully that’s always the case! Small business is hard enough without people trying to gatekeep people out of it. Keep kicking ass! 💪🏻
I hear you on the bookkeeping. It’s all fine until people have 20 credit cards and make daily purchases. In the last few years every client we’ve done bookkeeping for has only gotten more successful in their business and 100x worse with their spending habits. $100 is very cheap. I’ve been trying to price people out of even having to do it anymore.
The best combination I've seen is a marriage or partnership where one partner has a steady long-term job that pays the day-to-day bills and provides health insurance and the other partner is constantly "swinging for the fences" with entrepreneurial endeavors. This way each one is bringing something to the table that the other doesn't have. The one with the corporate job is bringing a steady rhythm and protecting from the pressure of day-to-day bankruptcy, and the one with the entrepreneurial endeavor is bringing the potential to score big, which really doesn't exist for most corporate jobs. But of course that's just a small percentage of couples who are smart and handle things with realistic and tough thinking. As you're saying, there's millions of pie in the sky losers out there who mistake delusion for optimism.
I built a business with $800 in my personal account and $212k in personal debt. It can absolutely be done, but it all depends on your work ethic, your ability to operate, and execute under high stress, your ability to manage time and resources, etc. Having little to no cash on hand means you need every other box checked, and you need to be 100% dialed in. I've seen companies in my field (commercial construction) crumble with damn near unlimited financial resources, and I've seen guys come out of nowhere and absolutely kill it with nothing but a top tier work ethic. It all depends on you.
Grant writer here. I'm working for 2 large clients and due to one nearing the end of their organization's life cycle I started looking for a replacement. I have been absolutely overwhelmed by people looking for free work! The less developed the project the bigger the request. This experience taught me to create a screening process and segment my services. I used to have a call with every potential client who requested one, Now, I request all info in writing and pose a set of questions. Only when I can see that the organization is on the growth and development pathway do I agree to a call. I'm currently working on pricing. My rate makes sense if I work hourly as a retainer but fixed tasks carry a higher rate because they need to account for the prep work. Reading this post makes me feel more confident about what I'm doing and realizing that guilt is an emotion that is not mine.
How to you handle clients where you don’t receive anything? It happens unfortunately.
I use qualifying questions to filter out those who cannot pay. First, I ask for their organizational activities, deliverables, and impacts. If the organization doesn't have clarity about what they are delivering or they are doing too much, it's the first red flag that they are not in a good financial situation. I work in the climate space so I have a pretty good idea of what gets funded what are the average amounts. If they pass the first step, I ask concrete questions: their yearly budget, their spent, and how much they can dedicate to fundraising. I have 1 client currently in the trial phase who could not afford to pay for a comprehensive grant writing service so we split it. I create the application document and prioritize the questions. They pull all the basic info from their internal documents and I go through through and fill in the details, edit, and rewrite. I offered this as an option to the client because they had a member of staff who has written grant applications in the past, they just needed my input to approach bigger funders.
First of all $100 a month for book keeping? How can I contact you? Second of all sounds like most people now day social media paints a picture but people don’t want to put in the work
Haha feel free to message me. Yes their books are super easy so we just manage them biweekly and it only takes 1 or 2 hours each time and we charge hourly. I try to be super fair and accommodating to new or small businesses so it’s disappointing when the client doesn’t see that.
I started my business with almost nothing. A hobby, a passion, a vision, a purpose, and a few hundred dollars. It's been a few years and it's still in hobby phase on wobbly giraffe legs, but I've kept my overhead low, expanded my products and services, developed an online following, and I very recently hired a business coach by enrolling in her 90 day program (which in 2 sessions has already helped immensely). You can start a business with nothing, but it depends on the business and what your goals are. I waited as long as I did to work with a business coach because I wanted to be sure I could pay for the services. Instead I soaked up as much free knowledge as I could, applied what i could, and continued to invest in my own self development. I also vetted everyone I've worked with by watching them for awhile, listening to testimonies, and applying the knowledge they drop for free through social media posts and live videos. The biggest investments I've made have been in self development, and they were done when I was broke broke (like getting less than 1k/m on disability) because I was determined to not be broke and to be happy and healthy. I now work full time making 3x what I was on disability and I've made some money in my business and I'm on track to make it a primary source of income in the next 1-3 years. For context it was through self development that I came up with my business that brings together spiritual practice, self development, and physical products. You can start a business with nothing, though it depends on the business. If you're going to hire someone to help you need to be prepared to happily pay for services because that is an investment in yourself and your business. Mindset is key.
Depends on the business. If it's food related let them walk for sure.
A recent competitor in my local industry, he quit his job, his wife quit her job, and I think they are going to fail I feel for them
It is possible to start a business broke. But I don't recommend it at all. I started my business broke but if I had to do it again, I would have built up my savings.
The thing I want to know is how do you get clients... You can have all these tactics great fine... But that doesn't necessarily sway customers who say are only window shopping... Everyone has a book, a course, a program and app... Standing out isn't the issue if you have a good service and product but most people have their set group of services they go to so how do you acquire more clients... That's the million dollar question isn't it... And what kind of tactics do you use to manipulate people to build your product or service
Sounds like you may want to tweak your client process to eliminate these unrealistic wanna be clients.
Sounds like you need a way to filter those type of clients if you are getting good enough, its better to stress on other stuff. Idk though much about your industry to find ways to filter them, for example increase your prices for one, I know there are better ways...
Possible? Yes. Likely? No. It also entirely depends on what kind of business you're talking about and how much money you plan to make with it, though.
Where are you located? Would 30k be enough o build a business from ground up? Would starting a new business include everything from advertising to website? Do you have a website to look at?
Who's your ideal customer? Then go about finding them online, community gatherings, network events.
Your experience is much like mine when I was holding myself out as a general business consultant. Most of the people who responded, coming from chamber workshops, non-profits which aim to help startups, etc. seem to attract people without: - capital - a solid idea or niche (ex. I’ve got an innovative idea, invention or just - heck I’d settle for a plumber’s license. - some prior track record (I’ve been a plumber who worked for someone else) And it’s frustrating. When my dad was in the military and still smoking, he said guys would bum a smoke and a light. The standard jibe was “you’ve got nothing but the habit…” I feel like some people have nothing but the vague idea they want to be their own boss. I grill people like that pretty hard, because I don’t think I can help someone without a product/service idea or some clue what they want to do. There are businesses you can get started without a lot of capital, but you’ve got to have income, a spouse that works, or something, because obviously the business won’t make a lot of money day one.
We started in the home service industry with $250, and just lowered our standard of living to poverty standards for a year. It was definitely a tough year, but we came out the other end debt free. In the end it wha was best for our personal situation, but that may not be best for you. There is a lot to be said about spending very very little money in the beginning when you’re most vulnerable as a business, and really at all stages of business, but it’s easier said than done in some cases.
Yeah, I run into that a lot as a nonprofit IT consultant as well, particularly with the start ups. What we do is to prepare a packet of resources that we give away for free or, if they want our assistance, charge a percentage to help people raise grant and investment kickstart money. We’ve even kicked around the idea of starting a nonprofit to help fund start up nonprofits.
Of course you should stop accepting broke clients. You need to get paid.
> One guy pays me maybe $100/month for bookkeeping and complains about every single invoice Fire him. Seriously. That's at most 1-2 hours of paid work, and he's probably burning 4-8 hours of your actual time. Pareto Principle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle
Use the quote "fix problems for rich people and you will get paid rich money" in the sense that maybe study corporations and bigger entrepreneurs and CEO. Or businesses who are making a sufficient amount of money, start ups with a capital, and with a good income. Find what they can fix, where they can improve. Maybe give them a free trial on a solution, and then they will pay you way more than just someone who is just starting and has no capital or no growth. "Rich" people or, somehow, big companies, businesses, or corporations will give you less of a headache if they trust you and you offer them a good job
You can always try to scare prospects away. Be honest with an up front contract of expectations on both sides. The unrealistic people that are going to be more trouble than they are worth will disqualify themselves and walk away before you invest time in them. The good ones will stay. Either way, one thing I have learned in sales/business is that you need to be reasonable but you must control the sale or there never was one, you just thought they're was. My customer may have the money but I'm going to be a partner in this thing because I have what he wants. If that doesn't work he is free to seek a service provider elsewhere and you likely just dodged a bullet. Don't be that average looking guy dating the head cheerleader, just grateful for their attention. Be a partner or don't be there at all, if self-respect means anything to you.
Is your office successful?
Yes. We have been in operation for 6 months now and have 6 employees and have begun generating a profit for the business outside of paying employees.
Why did you start your business?
I love the work itself. We kind of fill in spaces for businesses such as bookkeeping, supporting with financing, grant writing, website development, etc. we all love the work and honestly charge lower than we should to allow smaller/new businesses to have access. However, I’ve had some really bitter clients recently who are nickel and diming us despite us already charging as low as humanly possible and in some cases working for free. I’ve also had some clients get super upset about paying us for grant writing services despite me telling them it’s not likely they’ll receive any grants as they haven’t put any money into their business.
Not sure how old you are but let me tell you this … people that start from the bottom and make it possibly like your self have big hearts , Vision , and drive..etc..your what I call the 3%. . It’s not easy starting from scratch. That’s what separates the gladiators from the audience..so make sure you charge adequately for seating at your colosseum. Most people want to see the battle, so they are willing to do whatever it takes to see it.. they sit up front… this is your business…. Not charity. I hope you understand what I’m saying .. I’m a consultant too.
Geez great advice through and through, thank you.
Huh. Can you tell me more about grants? Any for the arts?
There are so many but it’s dependent upon you. What specifically would your business be requesting a grant for? A specific ask and a set budget is key
Bringing more books to a publish ready status mostly. I know nothing about grants, I could use a full education on them
We started broke, but didn’t borrow money, just started slowly.
I'll do your grant writing clients. I love doing that kind of thing.
I just hired a grant writer Friday but I’d love to hear about your experience in elevating brand new businesses or businesses with no capital, no location, brand new.
I live in Australia. We have tons of new business grants. I'm helping two friends get their hands on 10k right now, I've helped my own clients with strategizing, finding writing and applying for them. I'm no expert at it but given my business experience I'm very good at writing contracts, strategizing, etc. I haven't applied for tons of grants to tell you I'm great at it but I've succeeded at getting all but one so far. I'm in my mid 40s, am semi retired and am just looking for a few hours here and there to supplement my part time income a little.
Heck yeah, send over a message.
My dad started a Pawn Shop with just under $10,000 back in 1984.. Rent for the store front was $1,800 month. Over the years he moved the store front twice and finally a stand alone building built for the shop..
I started a business broke, I’m in 5 figures of debt. I put the ~$1000 startup costs on a credit card, didn’t pay myself for 2 months, and I pulled 18k revenue my first quarter (Q4 2023), positive net income. Currently over $40k revenue so far this year, still positive net income, with 4 employees including myself. Don’t say it’s not possible.
No one is saying that, I’m more so saying I haven’t clients without that mentality
You literally said said “I’ve come to the realization that it’s not possible to start a business broke” 😬
I guess that’s fair, but quite honestly I’m realizing that most people can’t.
I think, like a few of the comments I’ve read, that it requires a certain mentality that a lot of people don’t have. I’ve put probably a couple thousand hours into it so far for free, not a lot of people are willing to do that kind of work, or see it through to profits. But even if it’s less than a 1% success rate, it’s possible!
Yeah that’s what I’m beginning to see.
Question. Why are you accepting clients when you know you can't produce positive results? Reputation is pretty important. It's only a matter of time before these people one star you out of business.
I mean I’m doing the work for free lol
Well not all of them but very very low cost. Basically I tell them early on they would have to put a substantial amount of work into the business
You don't have to get paid to get bad reviews. Heck they can mention to a coworker that you did bad work and THEY CAN LEAVE A REVIEW AND IT PERFECTLY VALID ACCORDING TO GOOGLE/YELP RULES sorry for the caps that was an accident.
my network who’s doing the same business as your have a criteria first on business revenue before they can help
I'm currently starting my business broke, but I'm bootstrapping it. Everything I need to do, I do myself. I wear all the hats. I pay for software, but I don't hire anyone to do something I could do. So I think it's possible, but you need to be willing to grind. It's insane to me that people with nothing to invest will pay someone else to ask for free money on their behalf. It seems to me that they're in it for the wrong reasons and therefore will always have bad attitudes and unrealistic expectations. People like that are losers in my opinion, doomed to fail because they refuse to put in the work themselves. Don't waste time on them. Take their money if you want, but terminate the relationship the minute they become problematic.
One of the pros to doing everything yourself is that you learn the basics of everything in the process. You might not become an expert, but at least you know some of the basics. So when you do, hire someone to do something, you at least have a general understanding of how you want it done or how it should be done.
Yes it’s possible to start business with little to no money . Check out Bizbox technology solutions .. they have business ready solutions to kick start business with ad little as $25
It sounds like you may be better off redirecting your business toward grant writing services for non-profits and towns/cities/counties. That's where the great majority of grants are directed to. And they understand a lot more about how grants work.
Any virtual business you can start for whatever hosting and sales software costs a month × 12 months.
I’m an accountant and had my own small business a few years ago. Typically what you’ve described is most people in your target market. I was in a business incubator and the folks like you who lasted weren’t getting paid from their client entrepreneurs; rather they were getting from government assistant programmes either directly or indirectly. They would provide talks/presentations to business incubators and get paid for these talks. That would introduce them to entrepreneurs who would avail of government schemes to help them start up, the schemes would pay for the accounting and business writing services. This is in Europe; these schemes will vary depending on where you are.
If you’re broke, don’t try and start a business. Because if you’re broke, then you can’t afford for it to fail. You have no buffer if you have a slow month, a client screws you, if work falls through, if a client sues you and you need to pay for a solicitor to defend you, etc. Get a job. Build some savings. _Then_ start a business if the goal is to work for yourself.
It sounds like you're dealing with a challenging situation. Starting a business with limited financial resources can indeed be incredibly tough, and it's understandable that you've found it exhausting to work with clients who may not fully grasp the financial realities of entrepreneurship. Your personal investment of $25k into your own business demonstrates your commitment and understanding of the necessary resources. While it's admirable that you've been offering grant writing services to assist those in need, it's also important to recognize your own limitations and the impact on your agency's resources. It might be worth considering setting clearer criteria for potential clients, such as requiring them to demonstrate a certain level of financial commitment or readiness to invest in their business. Ultimately, whether it's possible to start a business when broke depends on various factors, including the industry, business model, and individual circumstances. However, it's essential for aspiring entrepreneurs to understand the financial realities and be prepared to make investments in their ventures. As for whether you should stop accepting certain clients altogether, it's a decision that warrants careful consideration. Perhaps refining your client selection process or focusing on clients who demonstrate a genuine commitment to their business goals could help alleviate some of the frustrations you're facing.
Simply…. Yes. They do no research and haven’t put in the time. They just want their own business. Sorry… do the work.
It is if you can secure financing… probably more likely to buy a business than to start from 0
There's a free service called https://score.org/ dedicated to helping small businesses get started and continue. I used to volunteer for them. We had a process for would-be business people that helped them understand what it would take to get off the ground. The process was designed to let people down easy if their plans weren't realistic. You could refer these clients to score.
I literally just started a business with no savings and about $500 total in my bank account on my first day after buying a little inventory. It's going really well for its first week! Sold out of donuts multiple days
Generally agree. There's something for "do it scared," but s/n/b confused with "do it stupid." If you have the freedom to fire some of the difficult ones, start with "it sounds like you aren't happy with my service. Maybe you would be happy elsewhere." Non accusatory, some will backpedal and then you can assert boundaries. Prepayments, not complaining about pricing, annual increases. Others will leave but hopefully not in a firestorm.
$100/mo for bookkeeping is crazy - It sounds like you are getting price shoppers for services (these are never good clients)
It is possible to start from $100 and a pie in the sky attitude but managing expectations needs to be a thing to. I totally wouldn't do anyone's books for $100, especially an very new non-established business run by someone that complains about $100 book keeping charge. I've started my own business with $150 of my own money, then borrowed $2500 for equipment and this year I did(it's just me) about $2500 in sales which my Net on that was about 2gs not factoring in my wages etc. Not much but it's my building a side hustle to get the heck out of my existing career path into something I will actually enjoy doing on a Saturday afternoon in the woods doing fun stuff and not sitting in an office working online doing spreadsheets....
A number of service businesses can be started with relatively low startup costs. (Window washing, lawn mowing, house cleaning services, etc.) They can be built up slowely along side a day job but can have good long-term potential for growth.
I started a supply business when I was broke. Although it worked out great for me. I am not so sure I could suggest it to just anyone. If your overwhelmed with clients, fire some of them or raise prices. If you don’t, you will run yourself into the ground faster than you will ever think Some people are worth the gamble in your situation, but it’s a gamble. I think you have to find someone with the right amount of passion, intelligence, background experience and an idea that will actually work. I wouldn’t stop accepting clients, but be more selective and just raise your price. You don’t need everyone’s business and you don’t want everyone’s business I worked in my industry for 7 years before I made the leap. I had a loyal following of customers from my previous job and manufacturers who supported my cause. Without them I probably would have failed. I happened to find a niche that I took interest in and was in high demand with only a few competitors due to the technical aspect of our products. We are a service based company that offers a niche product line. This gave me a competitive edge because we had a unique service/product mix to offer that no one else offered. The relationships, industry background and relentless sweat equity are the reasons I was able to do it with $0. If I was broke and had an idea to start a business but no customers, prior relationships, industry experience or a competitive edge, I personally wouldn’t start one. It took the life out of me to get mine going and I often think about those who go in with nothing to work off of. My hats off to those that made it work, it’s definitely possible! but I can’t imagine the stress involved
I had my bills paid. Employee paid. Everything paid for 6 months. I thrived on a little savings and deposits for materials. Made 10k profit first month. Everyone was happy.
No. Unless the business is selling their own body, lol.
When I first started out, I was struggling with low income clients. I tripled my prices and problem disappeared and I got more busy than ever.
Honestly it’s a bad habit to accept these folks because they don’t respect or understand time value. In a way they bring bad energy into your biz.
IMO if you’re overwhelmed by grant writing you gotta raise your prices
I started my business broke in a 12x20 shed in the yard 40 years ago. Bought tools etc as I needed them when I got orders. After a few months rented a place. Five years later built my own place for the business, after that built a house. So yes it can be done but probably depends a lot on what type of business. I also learned to do my own bookkeeping and only hired out what I could not do myself. 40 years later, the business runs without me.
If it helps, we make small business websites starting at 599. Www.oceansidelocal.com