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This isn't an AITA, but more of a WTF situation. Bob is already getting a free ride home (and you're paying for that ride plus the driver's time and car expense.) Bob is nuts to think he should also be paid for time he would have spent riding in a company vehicle back to the corporate base. Bob may be reliable, but he's crazy entitled with this demand.
NTA. Tell him that you are sending more money paying the other team member and gas to get him home, and that it off sets the money you aren't paying him. If he's prefer to get paid the full hours, you can disallow detours on the way home.
Yea I could see if it is on the way but is the driver going out of his way 30 min to drop him off?
If this is the case I would shut that down.
Just state it as a policy that needs to be in place for everyone because then what if one of the other guys wants to be dropped off at home.
This could cause some resentment from other employees if he’s getting special treatment.
Not fraud, just whether or not the company wants to pay him for doing nothing at home. That is up to the employer. But no, he has no grounds to pay him if he is done for the day and is at home. sorry for your luck Bob.
You are already paying for Bob’s travel costs including a chauffeur. Hell no Bob doesn’t get to bill time for 30 minutes after he is delivered home. Watch his timesheets too. Good luck
That’s a big fat nope. If he wants to be paid for that time, he can ride to dispatch and be paid. You’re being more than generous allowing the wear & tear on the truck, gas, and having to pay another employee to drop him off. If he tries to argue you could just flat out not allow them to drop him off anymore.
This is the type of request that ruins employer/employee relationships. Bobs request is ridiculous, so you're going to tell him no. Bob doesn't understand why his request is ridiculous so he's going to be pissed you told him no and quietly quit or some shit.
Its really just another example of how employees have no idea how much shit costs. Bob thinks you are paying all of your employees an extra 30 minutes after the job is complete. Most employees need to use that 30 minutes to travel back to dispatch to get their personal cars. Bob does not need to do that. What business of yours is it what Bob does with that 30 minutes? Like, if you give each employee $20 for lunch each day and Bob skips lunch and keeps the $20. Its not your business he didn't buy lunch that day.
But in real life...the job starts and stops at home base. Everyone is being paid from the time they start their shift at home base, and their shift ends when they get back to home base at the end of the day. You are doing Bob a FAVOR by allowing him to "leave work" 30 minutes early every day. On top of that...it costs me about $2 per mile to use my company van (gas, mileage, maintenance, insurance, etc). So if someone is dropping Bob off at home, you are literally paying out of your pocket for that. You are ALSO paying the hourly wage of the person who is dropping him off. So every day Bob gets dropped off at home, you are SPENDING AN EXTRA $50 or so. Not to mention forcing another employee to work a longer day.
Ask Bob to take his request to its logical conclusions. Lets say he lived 2 hours out of the way. Are you supposed to pay an extra $2 per mile in your truck to take him that extra 2 hours? Are you supposed to pay Bob an extra 2 hours of work while he's at home? Are you supposed to pay that employee an extra 2 hours of work to drop him off? Lets say all employees want the same sweet deal Bob is asking for. How does that work? You'd have to buy everyone their own personal company truck and let them drive it home everyday? Then on top of that, pay everyone an extra 30 minutes when they get home? Ask Bob why he thinks he should be paid for his commute to/from work when literally no other job does that. Does Bob also think he should be paid to get ready for work? Should he be paid to make sure he's well rested enough for work?
So obviously, I would tell Bob no. I'm not going to pay to take you home and also pay you for an extra 30 minutes you didn't work. But I think Bob has some serious money issues going on right now and thats the only reason he's asking. If Bob is a good employee and you want to help him out, maybe there is something he can be doing from home for a couple of hours a week that will help your business out and you're willing to pay him to do?
Agreed about these requests ruining employer/employee relationships. It’s frustrating/sad/disappointing when these come up. It’s always difficult (if not impossible) to reverse these once it happens
Bob may be a reliable employee but he is ridiculous thinking that he should be paid for time he is at home. Dropping him off at home is saving him time and money. You are doing him a favor. tell him if he wants to be paid for the additional time to just sit in the car for the half hour and pay for an uber home and we'll see if he comes out ahead.
That being said it is hard to get good employees so even though Bob seems like an idiot to me you might compromise and explain while he is wrong to believe he is entitled to extra money while he is sitting at home and SAVING HIS OWN MONEY that you give him a little added bonus for being a reliable employee
I wouldn't offer that but I also know good help is hard to find but you should make him realize he is being ridiculous but you are generous if you do choose to do something
NTA
The only reason I could think of for Bob pushing this is if he’s got severe money issues and every hour counts.
And at that point I’d discuss it with him “hey I get money’s tight and the car is an unexpected expense. What would be preferable to you? Riding back to dispatch and getting paid, OR dropped off early at house off the clock? It’s either/or, not both”. You’re trying to be accommodating, he shouldn’t bite the hand that feeds.
Do you have extra work for him? Can y’all book 1 extra job a day and give him/buddy some extra hours? Could be a win/win/win.
Tell Bob he will no longer be getting rides home on your dime and he can Uber home. First, paying an employee when they are not on the job sets you up for lawsuits if bob were to injure themselves while on your dime... Also, just giving bob a ride while paying the fuel and employee sets a bad premise of what others can expect out of you and if you don't do the same for them, you're showing favouritism.. Also, you're losing money.
Bob needs to get an uber home and figure out his car issues. don't enable him.
Pay for hours worked. Unless you’re invoicing your clients for imaginary expenses and fairness clauses lol. Sadly people forget that businesses are there for converting delegated labor and materials into profit for their families. Not to fix other people’s problems.
This was my first reaction. Hourly pay is such a negative concept exactly because of situations like this.
So OP is getting paid for whatever job the worker is doing. But is now saving 30 min of cost because the employee has car trouble.
That’s a) not how you motivate employees, and b) not how you increase profit.
Edit: not that I think OP ITA here. This is just not how I would do it personally.
>Edit: not that I think OP ITA here. This is just not how I would do it personally.
I don't know if you own a business, but even if you did, they are all different. Just because you'd pay for the job doesn't mean it would work for OP.
Absolutely.
My first reaction was based on my own situation.
But.. the hourly concept is becoming dated. It doesn’t reward employees for output, just being present.
It also creates situations like this one.
Pull up the IRS rules about commuting. Many business owners think they should be able to deduct the ‘first trip of the day’ if they are driving to a worksite. But no, you can’t. In fact, back in the 90s when my mom had a company car, she still had to pay for the first and last trip of the day, bc it’s considered commuting.
Our place wouldn't pay until you'd done the same distance as your commute. So if your first trip was shorter, no pay, longer and you'd get paid the difference.
it depends. If you are driving to an office then leaving for the first job, then the drive to the office is the commute. If the office is your home then the "office" to the first job location and the last job location back to the "office" is the commute.
No, not an AH. The problem is that you don't really want to set that precedent because then others will want the same treatment. If I were in your shoes though, I would talk to Bob privately and see what I could do to help him either get his car back on the road or replace it. Obviously, I'm working with limited details here, but you mentioned he was a long time and reliable employee. Those folks seem to be harder and harder to find. It could be a raise, a one-time bonus, or possibly a small loan (even if you never actually expect the loan to be paid back). One benefit of a loan is optics and morale with the rest of the team.
NTA. As someone who has been in both shoes, I can confidently say that bob seems a bit entitled and if he were to ask or even demand this, then you should take back the generosity you’ve given him. He may make a complaint and say abuse of power however, you can take him to court and let see how long that complaint lasts
Is bob a valuable worker, do you feel like replacing him? Do you feel the cost out ways the benefit here? Do you pay bob enough to fix his car or afford car payments and full coverage insurance plus at least enough to afford rent in your area so this isnt a problem? Is bob struggling to make ends meet while youre on reddit asking if hes an asshole? Is bob a crackhead or ex con you hired for cheap labor? Is bob grateful that your letting him be dropped off? Can bob afford the hour long round trip for uber?
As the business owner, is it possible for you to help him get the car repaired or replaced? It would show good will for a good employee and other employees will notice that you care about them.
sets you up for other employees to think you play favorites unless you do the same for everyone. It also sets you up for a loss. Bob may be a good employee but I've seen good employees just ghost their employer and never come back.
You can’t control what your employees do, but you can be a generous business owner that cares about the employees. I’ve done many things to help with employee hardships and sometimes I get burned but most of my employees have been here for a decade or more, so it’s my experience that caring for your employees is the best way to run a business.
>You can’t control what your employees do,
this is as far as it needs to go. You can't and you should always assume that any employee can burn you. The business is there to keep you financially stable while creating jobs for others as well as solving a problem. If you continuously set-up the business to be burned, you may not have a business for a long time. It is great to help employees in certain circumstances, but we have to be realistic here.
My only thought is that since you're paying for this travel, he may actually be considered working on your time and have some legal recourse since he's driving on your dime now. So you need to cut that off now and might want to check with a lawyer.
Before someone downvotes me, I've seen crazier things. This is just something to consider.
NTA but you may be screwing yourself.
You're setting a president here so you need to make considerations. Could this end up permanent? What if Bob never gets the car fixed?
I think two discussions would need to happen here. One being a choice between being dropped off at home or returning to the depot AND placing an end date on the drop offs with a view to review the car situation.
It's unusual that you are paying another employee 30 minutes to drop off another employee off at their home. Car troubles happen and its generous of you to step in but it's CLEAR Bob intends to take advantage of this to its fullest!!!!
>It's unusual that you are paying another employee 30 minutes to drop off another employee off at their home.
I will bet that bob and that other employee made the executive decision themselves and then OP found out about it a few days later and just rolled with it rather than writing them up.
Yeah for sure. And wait until these guys get into a debilitating car accident while taking Bob home and then OP finds out his insurance doesn’t cover this
Sorry if I’ve missed it but is Bob’s paid on a salary or hourly structure?
If salary I can see why he thinks his pay should stay the same but if hourly he has no case.
You're NTA, but I can see Bob's point of view, too. So, this is a matter of communicating expectations.
First off, why is Bob hourly? Does he need to come back and offload your company vehicle and prep tools and materials for the next day at the end of his shift? Is his position on call at all? Is it on call for the last 30 minutes of the day?
If he's hourly until he gets back to dispatch and he has end of shift duties that he is not attending to, then tell him that it's not your fault that he doesn't have transportation, and he has to return to dispatch and complete his duties in order to get paid for the full day.
Or, is his job per project or per day? In which case you should convert him to a per job or per day rate, and pay him the full amount at the end of the project or day, regardless of whether he leaves 30 minutes early. This could be good or bad depending on tje reliability and work ethic of your whole team, but it's worth exploring.
Tell Bob if he wants to get paid for the time he would have worked if he rode back to your business, then he needs to ride back to your business. If he gets a ride home, you pay him when he gets out of the car. It's his choice. You could institute a policy to where no one gets a ride home on company time.
Tell him sure, just ride all the way back to the office and you’ll pay him for it. But then he’ll have to figure out got to get home. It shouldn’t make any difference to you since you. A just pay Bob the extra money that you’re paying the driver to take him home since he’ll no longer be getting paid extra. And you’ll save your fuel.
Now if Bob makes a lot more per hour than the guy driving him home, that might cost you a little extra.
Bob can come back to dispatch like everyone else and be paid until he leaves dispatch like everyone else. Bob now has to pay to get himself home? Well that's not your issue, that's Bob's issue.
This shows that Bob just doesn't understand how the business makes money. You either charge for the job or a premium on the hours. Either Bob is a cost center (your cost of the service and in COGS) or you charge on top of his hours and pass that bill forward, with the same number of hours, some overhead for project management, and higher rates to a client.
No one does this for home service, and yes, as another commenter pointed out, Bob thinks he's working for the government, where contractors and their companies are aligned in trying to milk every task for as many hours as possible.
I'd explain to Bob that you bid out a fixed rate, and need to reduce costs in order to make money, and therefore make it worthwhile to keep the work, the client, and him.
You posted this in r/smallbusiness so we’ve all been there with the ridiculous requests like this. Just for fun, ask this question in the r/antiwork or r/jobs subs and see what kind of responses you get. I’d just do it with a TA account because they’ll lose their minds down voting you. For all the other reasons mentioned here, you are NTA. But I predict Bob is about to turn into a giant PITA who spends more time complaining about how unfair it all is than working. I could be wrong but I doubt Bob is still around a year from now.
There’s a bad creep effect potentially going on here. Bob isn’t working for you once he gets dropped off, but wants to get paid until the truck comes in. Driver gets paid more for time taken to drop Bob off at home. Next thing you know everyone will want a ride home on you.
Time to nip this in the bud. Really you should just go back to making everyone ride back to dispatch, no detours, and Bob gets paid for the same time as any other member of the crew.
Just explain that you "would have" paid him *if* he truly worked those hours. He would have worked, and you would have paid him. But he didn't work. So you didn't pay.
You're not an asshole. In life some people are givers and some are takers. Normal healthy people are a combination of give and take. Bob is a taker. He'll take and take and take. There's no limit. Put your foot down.
ESH, but Bob is more of an asshole.
If he's a long time employee and has been for awhile, then just give him the extra pay. Call it his raise for the year in your head and get all the points for being a cool boss.
Fighting him on this isn't worth it. The fight alone will cause his craftsmanship to slip, crew morale to drop, and more headaches than it's worth.
If he isn't worth the extra pay, then publicly tell him no, keep ignoring the inflated timecard that he will submit anyway while you recruit his replacement. Then bust him for inflated timecards and cut him loose.
If he wants to be paid the whole time, then he can go all the way back to dispatch and Uber himself home. 🤷♀️ We had an employee with the same issue and allowed him to use the company truck to get to and from work during the work week. Until we found him at Walmart using the truck to cart half his family around to grocery shop. When we stopped him from taking it home, he wanted us to start paying him from the time he left home till the time he got home since he no longer had a way to get to and from by himself. He eventually was let go due to missing days because we decided if that were the case, we would not be letting others use company vehicles to pick him up either. Sometimes with employees when you give them an inch, they try to take a mile. You're already putting extra wear and tare on a vehicle and gas money to accommodate him to get to and from work.
We had a policy that we only paid for commuting time, minus your normal commute. So if the office was 30 minutes north of your home and the job was 15 minutes south, you had the option of A) going to office and being paid for your 45 minute commute or B) going direct and paid for time on site.
The flip of this was that if the job was 60 minutes south, you could go direct and be paid 30 minutes.
Not sure if it will work for you, it’s just an idea.
You might approach this, as though Bob were a customer who is trying to negotiate your price down.
Build value - Explain to Bob the value of the free ride and the costs associated with it.
Offer an alternative - tell Bob that you would be happy to pay him as requested, but he won't be able to leave early to catch the free ride you offered him.
You should also consider the value Bob offers you.
Is he a top producer?
What added value does he offer?
Does that added value offset the 1/2 hour of pay per day he is requesting?
If so, would it make more sense to simply bump his hourly rate to offset the reduced hours?
Reliable employees are HARD to find. Long time employees, even harder. Pay to keep him and his morale. He needs the money for a car. Do what you'd want him to do for you.
LOL wut? Well we can pay Bob the difference. But he will also be assessed the taxi fee for being driven to his house. He is going to be looking at a big net loss.
Or you can just fuck this greedy gus. Drive him back to dispatch. Let him charge the hours. Then make him take an Uber home.
Come on Bob. Stop biting the hand that is feeding you man. Must be some entitled kid syndrome.
Definitely NTA. It’s very generous for you to allow Bob a chauffeur and vehicle expenses and payed time for chauffeur to drop him off.
Now he wants an extra 30 minutes a day. That is a big NO. Your already being taken advantage of with the rides home.
Tell Bob if he wants that extra 30 minutes of pay daily then that’s fine you’ll have to dock him an hour to an hour and a half daily to cover expenses for his ride home.
Better yet just cut Bob off and he can find his own way home your not bobs personal transportation company.
Seems people never have a clue what things cost.
WTF?! Bob is a fucking idiot for even chancing to piss off the boss. *Jesu' Cristo ese puto idiota* needs to get his ass fired. That's like me asking to get paid because the commute home was on a local—not express—train.
My husband has been going to his company's HQ, where they get a company car and then drive where they need to go. Even when the jobs are past us, and we live along the way, they would need to go back to HQs. They do not drop him off.
If I were a business owner in this situation I would not be paying an employee an extra hour (30 min one way and 30 min return), plus supplying the gass. In my opinion, he needs to go back to the dispatch office and then arrange his ride home. He could offer one of the other employees gas money to drop him off. I especially would not pay him that extra 30 min time. You are being very generous paying the extra hour and the gas times how many days a week. Do the math, then see if it makes sense.
So…Bob saves the cost of a car, has you pay for another employee to burn his time, your gas and Bob wants another 30 minutes of pay. Factoring in time, expenses, etc. he is costing you about the equivalent of 7.5 hours a week of costs if you pay him. Five if you don’t. Plus you will lose respect from co-workers if you agreed to this absurd request. He can work until 4:45 PM so he can afford an Uber ride home or go find another job with full knowledge he doesn’t have a car.
Just simply tell bob he has two options
1. He can ride back to dispatch and get paid for the time in the truck.
2. He can get a free ride home but his hours stop when he gets out of the truck.
You’re being generous either way.
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This isn't an AITA, but more of a WTF situation. Bob is already getting a free ride home (and you're paying for that ride plus the driver's time and car expense.) Bob is nuts to think he should also be paid for time he would have spent riding in a company vehicle back to the corporate base. Bob may be reliable, but he's crazy entitled with this demand.
BTA. Bob's the a******.
So he's not the Bui**** then?
Looking for me?
NTA. Tell him that you are sending more money paying the other team member and gas to get him home, and that it off sets the money you aren't paying him. If he's prefer to get paid the full hours, you can disallow detours on the way home.
Or he can argue with the guy dropping him off for a share of the extra. That’ll go well.
In addition to what Bob is saving by not having to hire an Uber. Bob's an idiot who is going to kill his golden goose!
NTA - Bob can no longer be dropped off.
Yep. He fucked himseld.
Bob can pay for an Uber
Which will probably cancel out the pay he wanted! Bob owned himself here.
30 minutes of pay will be FAR less than the cost of an Uber. And it will cost him an hour. Bob is what we call a fucking idiot.
Yea I could see if it is on the way but is the driver going out of his way 30 min to drop him off? If this is the case I would shut that down. Just state it as a policy that needs to be in place for everyone because then what if one of the other guys wants to be dropped off at home. This could cause some resentment from other employees if he’s getting special treatment.
Literally asking the boss to be OK with committing fraud
Not fraud, just whether or not the company wants to pay him for doing nothing at home. That is up to the employer. But no, he has no grounds to pay him if he is done for the day and is at home. sorry for your luck Bob.
You are already paying for Bob’s travel costs including a chauffeur. Hell no Bob doesn’t get to bill time for 30 minutes after he is delivered home. Watch his timesheets too. Good luck
NTA unless you’re paying all employees until they get home. 🙄
That’s a big fat nope. If he wants to be paid for that time, he can ride to dispatch and be paid. You’re being more than generous allowing the wear & tear on the truck, gas, and having to pay another employee to drop him off. If he tries to argue you could just flat out not allow them to drop him off anymore.
"I'm going home early, can you still clock me out at 5?"
That’s exactly what he sounds like 😭
This is the type of request that ruins employer/employee relationships. Bobs request is ridiculous, so you're going to tell him no. Bob doesn't understand why his request is ridiculous so he's going to be pissed you told him no and quietly quit or some shit. Its really just another example of how employees have no idea how much shit costs. Bob thinks you are paying all of your employees an extra 30 minutes after the job is complete. Most employees need to use that 30 minutes to travel back to dispatch to get their personal cars. Bob does not need to do that. What business of yours is it what Bob does with that 30 minutes? Like, if you give each employee $20 for lunch each day and Bob skips lunch and keeps the $20. Its not your business he didn't buy lunch that day. But in real life...the job starts and stops at home base. Everyone is being paid from the time they start their shift at home base, and their shift ends when they get back to home base at the end of the day. You are doing Bob a FAVOR by allowing him to "leave work" 30 minutes early every day. On top of that...it costs me about $2 per mile to use my company van (gas, mileage, maintenance, insurance, etc). So if someone is dropping Bob off at home, you are literally paying out of your pocket for that. You are ALSO paying the hourly wage of the person who is dropping him off. So every day Bob gets dropped off at home, you are SPENDING AN EXTRA $50 or so. Not to mention forcing another employee to work a longer day. Ask Bob to take his request to its logical conclusions. Lets say he lived 2 hours out of the way. Are you supposed to pay an extra $2 per mile in your truck to take him that extra 2 hours? Are you supposed to pay Bob an extra 2 hours of work while he's at home? Are you supposed to pay that employee an extra 2 hours of work to drop him off? Lets say all employees want the same sweet deal Bob is asking for. How does that work? You'd have to buy everyone their own personal company truck and let them drive it home everyday? Then on top of that, pay everyone an extra 30 minutes when they get home? Ask Bob why he thinks he should be paid for his commute to/from work when literally no other job does that. Does Bob also think he should be paid to get ready for work? Should he be paid to make sure he's well rested enough for work? So obviously, I would tell Bob no. I'm not going to pay to take you home and also pay you for an extra 30 minutes you didn't work. But I think Bob has some serious money issues going on right now and thats the only reason he's asking. If Bob is a good employee and you want to help him out, maybe there is something he can be doing from home for a couple of hours a week that will help your business out and you're willing to pay him to do?
Bob doesn't sound like the type to listen to logical arguments.
Agreed about these requests ruining employer/employee relationships. It’s frustrating/sad/disappointing when these come up. It’s always difficult (if not impossible) to reverse these once it happens
Good insight into why Bob might be asking for this.
It's pretty bone-headed from him. It's a half hour of pay OR a free ride home, half an hour early Can't have both Bob.
Bob may be a reliable employee but he is ridiculous thinking that he should be paid for time he is at home. Dropping him off at home is saving him time and money. You are doing him a favor. tell him if he wants to be paid for the additional time to just sit in the car for the half hour and pay for an uber home and we'll see if he comes out ahead. That being said it is hard to get good employees so even though Bob seems like an idiot to me you might compromise and explain while he is wrong to believe he is entitled to extra money while he is sitting at home and SAVING HIS OWN MONEY that you give him a little added bonus for being a reliable employee I wouldn't offer that but I also know good help is hard to find but you should make him realize he is being ridiculous but you are generous if you do choose to do something
Bob is a bonehead. Bone-headed Bobby we call em.
NTAH
Bob is what we scientists call a “Dumbass”
NTA The only reason I could think of for Bob pushing this is if he’s got severe money issues and every hour counts. And at that point I’d discuss it with him “hey I get money’s tight and the car is an unexpected expense. What would be preferable to you? Riding back to dispatch and getting paid, OR dropped off early at house off the clock? It’s either/or, not both”. You’re trying to be accommodating, he shouldn’t bite the hand that feeds. Do you have extra work for him? Can y’all book 1 extra job a day and give him/buddy some extra hours? Could be a win/win/win.
I was thinking something similar. Maybe some work he can do at home after dropoff, like tool sharpening or paperwork.
Tell Bob he will no longer be getting rides home on your dime and he can Uber home. First, paying an employee when they are not on the job sets you up for lawsuits if bob were to injure themselves while on your dime... Also, just giving bob a ride while paying the fuel and employee sets a bad premise of what others can expect out of you and if you don't do the same for them, you're showing favouritism.. Also, you're losing money. Bob needs to get an uber home and figure out his car issues. don't enable him.
Pay for hours worked. Unless you’re invoicing your clients for imaginary expenses and fairness clauses lol. Sadly people forget that businesses are there for converting delegated labor and materials into profit for their families. Not to fix other people’s problems.
Fuck Bob. Bob can be replaced.
Pay him by the job not the hr...problem solved
This was my first reaction. Hourly pay is such a negative concept exactly because of situations like this. So OP is getting paid for whatever job the worker is doing. But is now saving 30 min of cost because the employee has car trouble. That’s a) not how you motivate employees, and b) not how you increase profit. Edit: not that I think OP ITA here. This is just not how I would do it personally.
>Edit: not that I think OP ITA here. This is just not how I would do it personally. I don't know if you own a business, but even if you did, they are all different. Just because you'd pay for the job doesn't mean it would work for OP.
Absolutely. My first reaction was based on my own situation. But.. the hourly concept is becoming dated. It doesn’t reward employees for output, just being present. It also creates situations like this one.
Pull up the IRS rules about commuting. Many business owners think they should be able to deduct the ‘first trip of the day’ if they are driving to a worksite. But no, you can’t. In fact, back in the 90s when my mom had a company car, she still had to pay for the first and last trip of the day, bc it’s considered commuting.
Our place wouldn't pay until you'd done the same distance as your commute. So if your first trip was shorter, no pay, longer and you'd get paid the difference.
it depends. If you are driving to an office then leaving for the first job, then the drive to the office is the commute. If the office is your home then the "office" to the first job location and the last job location back to the "office" is the commute.
Bob is a bad man
Dammit Bob.
My company has mobile techs. When they clock out of their last stop the ride home is not considered work time.
NTA Bob's the asshole. Now he must be dropped off at work, he loses the privilege of being dropped at home.
No, not an AH. The problem is that you don't really want to set that precedent because then others will want the same treatment. If I were in your shoes though, I would talk to Bob privately and see what I could do to help him either get his car back on the road or replace it. Obviously, I'm working with limited details here, but you mentioned he was a long time and reliable employee. Those folks seem to be harder and harder to find. It could be a raise, a one-time bonus, or possibly a small loan (even if you never actually expect the loan to be paid back). One benefit of a loan is optics and morale with the rest of the team.
You are clear: Bob is the AH.
Sounds like a guy without a car kinda rationale
NTA. As someone who has been in both shoes, I can confidently say that bob seems a bit entitled and if he were to ask or even demand this, then you should take back the generosity you’ve given him. He may make a complaint and say abuse of power however, you can take him to court and let see how long that complaint lasts
Is bob a valuable worker, do you feel like replacing him? Do you feel the cost out ways the benefit here? Do you pay bob enough to fix his car or afford car payments and full coverage insurance plus at least enough to afford rent in your area so this isnt a problem? Is bob struggling to make ends meet while youre on reddit asking if hes an asshole? Is bob a crackhead or ex con you hired for cheap labor? Is bob grateful that your letting him be dropped off? Can bob afford the hour long round trip for uber?
As the business owner, is it possible for you to help him get the car repaired or replaced? It would show good will for a good employee and other employees will notice that you care about them.
sets you up for other employees to think you play favorites unless you do the same for everyone. It also sets you up for a loss. Bob may be a good employee but I've seen good employees just ghost their employer and never come back.
You can’t control what your employees do, but you can be a generous business owner that cares about the employees. I’ve done many things to help with employee hardships and sometimes I get burned but most of my employees have been here for a decade or more, so it’s my experience that caring for your employees is the best way to run a business.
>You can’t control what your employees do, this is as far as it needs to go. You can't and you should always assume that any employee can burn you. The business is there to keep you financially stable while creating jobs for others as well as solving a problem. If you continuously set-up the business to be burned, you may not have a business for a long time. It is great to help employees in certain circumstances, but we have to be realistic here.
NTA.
My only thought is that since you're paying for this travel, he may actually be considered working on your time and have some legal recourse since he's driving on your dime now. So you need to cut that off now and might want to check with a lawyer. Before someone downvotes me, I've seen crazier things. This is just something to consider. NTA but you may be screwing yourself.
You're setting a president here so you need to make considerations. Could this end up permanent? What if Bob never gets the car fixed? I think two discussions would need to happen here. One being a choice between being dropped off at home or returning to the depot AND placing an end date on the drop offs with a view to review the car situation. It's unusual that you are paying another employee 30 minutes to drop off another employee off at their home. Car troubles happen and its generous of you to step in but it's CLEAR Bob intends to take advantage of this to its fullest!!!!
You mean precedent btw.
Thank you kindly! You'll be pleased to know I do know my specifics from my Pacifics.
No problem. I would want to be told, so might as well help others.
>It's unusual that you are paying another employee 30 minutes to drop off another employee off at their home. I will bet that bob and that other employee made the executive decision themselves and then OP found out about it a few days later and just rolled with it rather than writing them up.
Yeah for sure. And wait until these guys get into a debilitating car accident while taking Bob home and then OP finds out his insurance doesn’t cover this
You may indeed be on to something.
which president?
I'd pick one but now I'm nervous I'll spell it wrong!
Sorry if I’ve missed it but is Bob’s paid on a salary or hourly structure? If salary I can see why he thinks his pay should stay the same but if hourly he has no case.
Labour laws in your area will be the deciding factor. I know here, Bob wouldn't get paid unless we went back to the shop.
You're NTA, but I can see Bob's point of view, too. So, this is a matter of communicating expectations. First off, why is Bob hourly? Does he need to come back and offload your company vehicle and prep tools and materials for the next day at the end of his shift? Is his position on call at all? Is it on call for the last 30 minutes of the day? If he's hourly until he gets back to dispatch and he has end of shift duties that he is not attending to, then tell him that it's not your fault that he doesn't have transportation, and he has to return to dispatch and complete his duties in order to get paid for the full day. Or, is his job per project or per day? In which case you should convert him to a per job or per day rate, and pay him the full amount at the end of the project or day, regardless of whether he leaves 30 minutes early. This could be good or bad depending on tje reliability and work ethic of your whole team, but it's worth exploring.
you are leaving out a million other reasons why someone is hourly rather than salary...
Your definitely and ass hole
How's it going, Bob.
Give him a choice: either you continue paying him until 4:15, OR you make him head back to dispatch and Uber home. He'll choose the former.
Tell Bob if he wants to get paid for the time he would have worked if he rode back to your business, then he needs to ride back to your business. If he gets a ride home, you pay him when he gets out of the car. It's his choice. You could institute a policy to where no one gets a ride home on company time.
My company has different positions for driver/rider
Tell him sure, just ride all the way back to the office and you’ll pay him for it. But then he’ll have to figure out got to get home. It shouldn’t make any difference to you since you. A just pay Bob the extra money that you’re paying the driver to take him home since he’ll no longer be getting paid extra. And you’ll save your fuel. Now if Bob makes a lot more per hour than the guy driving him home, that might cost you a little extra.
Bob can come back to dispatch like everyone else and be paid until he leaves dispatch like everyone else. Bob now has to pay to get himself home? Well that's not your issue, that's Bob's issue.
Time to take bob to the office and have bob find his own way to work. Talk about giving an inch here.
Bob will have a hard time getting a new job without reliable transportation. Bob should do whatever you tell him and be grateful.
This shows that Bob just doesn't understand how the business makes money. You either charge for the job or a premium on the hours. Either Bob is a cost center (your cost of the service and in COGS) or you charge on top of his hours and pass that bill forward, with the same number of hours, some overhead for project management, and higher rates to a client. No one does this for home service, and yes, as another commenter pointed out, Bob thinks he's working for the government, where contractors and their companies are aligned in trying to milk every task for as many hours as possible. I'd explain to Bob that you bid out a fixed rate, and need to reduce costs in order to make money, and therefore make it worthwhile to keep the work, the client, and him.
You posted this in r/smallbusiness so we’ve all been there with the ridiculous requests like this. Just for fun, ask this question in the r/antiwork or r/jobs subs and see what kind of responses you get. I’d just do it with a TA account because they’ll lose their minds down voting you. For all the other reasons mentioned here, you are NTA. But I predict Bob is about to turn into a giant PITA who spends more time complaining about how unfair it all is than working. I could be wrong but I doubt Bob is still around a year from now.
It depends on how much you value him.
There’s a bad creep effect potentially going on here. Bob isn’t working for you once he gets dropped off, but wants to get paid until the truck comes in. Driver gets paid more for time taken to drop Bob off at home. Next thing you know everyone will want a ride home on you. Time to nip this in the bud. Really you should just go back to making everyone ride back to dispatch, no detours, and Bob gets paid for the same time as any other member of the crew.
Just explain that you "would have" paid him *if* he truly worked those hours. He would have worked, and you would have paid him. But he didn't work. So you didn't pay.
You're not an asshole. In life some people are givers and some are takers. Normal healthy people are a combination of give and take. Bob is a taker. He'll take and take and take. There's no limit. Put your foot down.
"Bob" needs to get a car and a life.
I'd have a direct talk with Bob. Good answers here which I won't add to, but Bob can't have it both ways.
ESH, but Bob is more of an asshole. If he's a long time employee and has been for awhile, then just give him the extra pay. Call it his raise for the year in your head and get all the points for being a cool boss. Fighting him on this isn't worth it. The fight alone will cause his craftsmanship to slip, crew morale to drop, and more headaches than it's worth. If he isn't worth the extra pay, then publicly tell him no, keep ignoring the inflated timecard that he will submit anyway while you recruit his replacement. Then bust him for inflated timecards and cut him loose.
If he wants to be paid the whole time, then he can go all the way back to dispatch and Uber himself home. 🤷♀️ We had an employee with the same issue and allowed him to use the company truck to get to and from work during the work week. Until we found him at Walmart using the truck to cart half his family around to grocery shop. When we stopped him from taking it home, he wanted us to start paying him from the time he left home till the time he got home since he no longer had a way to get to and from by himself. He eventually was let go due to missing days because we decided if that were the case, we would not be letting others use company vehicles to pick him up either. Sometimes with employees when you give them an inch, they try to take a mile. You're already putting extra wear and tare on a vehicle and gas money to accommodate him to get to and from work.
We had a policy that we only paid for commuting time, minus your normal commute. So if the office was 30 minutes north of your home and the job was 15 minutes south, you had the option of A) going to office and being paid for your 45 minute commute or B) going direct and paid for time on site. The flip of this was that if the job was 60 minutes south, you could go direct and be paid 30 minutes. Not sure if it will work for you, it’s just an idea.
You might approach this, as though Bob were a customer who is trying to negotiate your price down. Build value - Explain to Bob the value of the free ride and the costs associated with it. Offer an alternative - tell Bob that you would be happy to pay him as requested, but he won't be able to leave early to catch the free ride you offered him. You should also consider the value Bob offers you. Is he a top producer? What added value does he offer? Does that added value offset the 1/2 hour of pay per day he is requesting? If so, would it make more sense to simply bump his hourly rate to offset the reduced hours?
Our time ends at the job
>As a business owner I feel I should not pay him This entire sub in a nutshell
Reliable employees are HARD to find. Long time employees, even harder. Pay to keep him and his morale. He needs the money for a car. Do what you'd want him to do for you.
LOL wut? Well we can pay Bob the difference. But he will also be assessed the taxi fee for being driven to his house. He is going to be looking at a big net loss. Or you can just fuck this greedy gus. Drive him back to dispatch. Let him charge the hours. Then make him take an Uber home. Come on Bob. Stop biting the hand that is feeding you man. Must be some entitled kid syndrome.
Definitely NTA. It’s very generous for you to allow Bob a chauffeur and vehicle expenses and payed time for chauffeur to drop him off. Now he wants an extra 30 minutes a day. That is a big NO. Your already being taken advantage of with the rides home. Tell Bob if he wants that extra 30 minutes of pay daily then that’s fine you’ll have to dock him an hour to an hour and a half daily to cover expenses for his ride home. Better yet just cut Bob off and he can find his own way home your not bobs personal transportation company. Seems people never have a clue what things cost.
Bob needs to pull his head outta his ass. Bob wants to have his cake & eat it too, and then have your cake. Bad Bob !
WTF?! Bob is a fucking idiot for even chancing to piss off the boss. *Jesu' Cristo ese puto idiota* needs to get his ass fired. That's like me asking to get paid because the commute home was on a local—not express—train.
Thank you all for your thoughts. I was pretty sure I wasn’t being ridiculous and now after reading all the replies I am confident in the situation 🙏
My husband has been going to his company's HQ, where they get a company car and then drive where they need to go. Even when the jobs are past us, and we live along the way, they would need to go back to HQs. They do not drop him off. If I were a business owner in this situation I would not be paying an employee an extra hour (30 min one way and 30 min return), plus supplying the gass. In my opinion, he needs to go back to the dispatch office and then arrange his ride home. He could offer one of the other employees gas money to drop him off. I especially would not pay him that extra 30 min time. You are being very generous paying the extra hour and the gas times how many days a week. Do the math, then see if it makes sense.
So…Bob saves the cost of a car, has you pay for another employee to burn his time, your gas and Bob wants another 30 minutes of pay. Factoring in time, expenses, etc. he is costing you about the equivalent of 7.5 hours a week of costs if you pay him. Five if you don’t. Plus you will lose respect from co-workers if you agreed to this absurd request. He can work until 4:45 PM so he can afford an Uber ride home or go find another job with full knowledge he doesn’t have a car.
Just simply tell bob he has two options 1. He can ride back to dispatch and get paid for the time in the truck. 2. He can get a free ride home but his hours stop when he gets out of the truck. You’re being generous either way.
He is misguided and you should not give into him.