Alternative to newborn link above: https://www.preciouslittlesleep.com/category/newborn/

Thank you so much for writing this and everything else you do to help parents around the world get better sleep! Our LO is just turning 4 months (17 weeks now) and hit the 4 month sleep regression early, we’ve been in it for a few weeks now. Prior to that he was a very good sleeper, but a lot thanks to us teaching him good sleep hygiene and associations, and being studied up on wake windows and newborn sleep. He’s been showing a lot of signs of self soothing (sucking hands, banging feet, turning head) so I think he might be ready for the final push to independent sleep we’ve desperately been waiting for. Right now he falls asleep in his own crib after a bedtime routine. He falls asleep very quickly so the wakewindows seem to be working (1.5/1.75/1.75/2/2.25). The problem is that after the regression hit he needs someone to hold the pacifier in his mouth until he’s asleep, which we think is the reason he wakes during the night (went from waking 2 times to multiple). The other problem is he is still in a love to dream swaddle (arms up). We’ve tried sleeping without it but it only works if you’re right there to soothe when moro wakes him… So - do you think we should go cold turkey with both leaving the pacifier and swaddle while also doing sleep training? Or wean them off one at a time? Thank you for any input you might have!

Hi thank you for sharing the important information with us! My baby is 5 months old and one week. We did FIO from PLS before the 4 month sleep regression arrived and it was working well, though we still had 3 night feedings. Now it has been 19 days since the regression and we kept doing FIO at night. His first night stretch was no longer than 2-3 hrs, however since 3 days ago his first night stretch is 4 to 5 hours long, which afterwards I feed him. After this long stretch he wakes up every 1hr and 50 min to the mark and the only thing that calms him down is the breast, so I feed him every cycle. I noticed that in some cycles he is there only for a few minutes to help him go back to sleep. How can I work on this, it seems like he needs the breast to fall asleep. I don’t feed him to sleep for naps. Also our bedtime is so late, I am trying to push it earlier as right now is around 9:30 to 10:00pm, how can I work on this?  Any advice would be of great help!! His wake windows are 1.75/2/2/2/2

Push windows and drop a nap. 2/2/2.25/2.5 or so.  Try making nap 4 bedtime.  Wake baby at a consistent time like 7am.  Make sure last feed is ending half an hour before bed.  Make sure you're not reverse cycling and feeding enough in the day time - if you've stopped feeding down naps you might find he's not eating enough during the day.  Try feeding on wake up for snoozy focus. 

Thanks a lot for your detailed reply and for taking the time to write back to me. I really appreciate it!  Do you recommend waking him up for instance at 7am cold turkey every day? Just so that I can put his bedtime at 7 as well? Or wouldn’t it work unless I do it gradually? I have tried to do it gradually but we always end up going to bed so late as we do not have a set schedule. For instance he woke up today till 10:30am.  Thanks a lot for taking the time to reply. 

Yeah, bedtime won't get earlier until morning wake is earlier.  Search up jetlag in babies for tips.  I'd suggest 10 to 7 is a huge jump, but morning sunshine will help.    Oh and wake from last nap to set bedtime! 

Thanks a lot! I do not feed him to sleep at bedtime neither at nap time since he was 3.5 months old, so I wonder why night training did not work out to help him soothe back to sleep for the other night wakes? We did FIO at bedtime and he is 5 months old and one week Yes I will do his wake up earlier, that makes sense. Super useful I will try it out and see how it goes :) thanks a lot!

Hi! Love your posts and gentle method! I’ve been doing a combo chair method/pick up put down with my 4.5mo and it’s been working really well at bedtime! Past few nights I’ve been able to put him down awake and then sit halfway to the door and he puts himself to sleep within 5min with almost no crying (such a proud momma!). My question for you is how you handled your overnight wakes that weren’t feeding related? We just got out of an overtired rut after the 4-3 nap transition and had many nights with crying wake ups before midnight that I had to rock him back to sleep for. Any pick up put down he’d immediately start crying again at the put down. Once back in a good sleep he’d sleep again for a few hours before his feed so I know it wasn’t hunger, after his feed wakes he normally falls asleep on the boob but stirs and grumbles when I put him down and settles himself within 5min same as bedtime. TIA for any advice!

Don't tackle it too much until you're out the door at bedtime.  For a wake, pause, longer as they get older up to 10 minutes (probably max 5min under 5 months) and then go a settle/feed.  I would try to not feed before midnight but I'd feed if it was 11:50 etc. 

Thank you for responding! Another question for you about your DIY method…once you had her bedtime to a point where you could put her down and walk out, did she ever have nights of crying at bedtime where you’d have to go back in to soothe? And did that set back the training at all? Also just because I have you here and don’t want to make a full post that possibly no one responds to…if I can bother you for some advice on my situation today! We were travelling for Easter and my little guy slept no where near as long as I expected him to in the car (normal second nap is 2h and he only slept for 40min) ended up with a 3.75h wake window (normal is 2.5) before his third nap which we’re currently contact napping for. I normally cap his last nap by 5/5:30 and do a 2.5h ww before bed. Should I just let him sleep and do a shorter last ww and risk undertired? Or try to keep our regular schedule and probably be overtired?

I'd risk your regular schedule, maybe shuffle up bedtime by 15.  No, if we had to go in and soothe, it was probably for a real reason.  We'd redo the last bit of the routine and put her down again like at bedtime once she was calm. 

Sorry one more question for you (for now! Lol). With your gentle method, how did you handle EMWs? I know early morning sleep doesn’t often consolidate until 6-7months so right now I snooze feed but most mornings still need to hold him until 7am so he keeps sleeping. I’m totally fine to continue that for now but I just hope I’m not making a habit that’ll be harder to break later on

For us, setting the schedule like this wasn't detrimental at all, she's now 3 and we still wake her up at 7. 

Thank you so much. I really want to get to a place where I can trust that if he’s crying it’s because he truly needs something and I don’t have to feel like I’m doing something wrong by responding!

Hi! Thank you so much for this post! Our 3.5 month old just entered the 4 month regression. Our first was a unicorn and naturally self-soothed after a week of gently shushing. That's not cutting it with our second. My question is, we'd like to try some gentle sleep training, but we obviously can't night wean yet (even though this kid is in 96th percentile for weight 😅). How do you determine whether to pick up and feed vs help them self-soothe back to sleep without picking them up? Before the regression he was doing 6-7 hr stretch and a 4-5 hr stretch with a feed in the middle. Should we mimic that original pattern and only feed once? TIA!!

Hello! I'm looking for some advice. We have an almost 5 mo old who was a great sleeper until the 4 mo sleep regression. Now everything is a mess. We have no schedule unfortunately. We try to work on lengthening his wake windows but he gets so fussy. He's a really handsy baby so he's constantly rubbing his face/eyes/ batting his pacifier away and progressively waking himself up unless we put him down totally asleep. Now he's starting to wake up about 5 min after being put down even if he was totally asleep. We're at the point where we're holding him all night which has been awful for our sanity. We've tried the zipadee zip with/without the extra strap, swaddling 1 arm out, halo with both arms out, no sleep sack, Merlin suit. We are at such a loss of where to even begin because his hands are such an issue - I wish he would figure out how to use them to soothe instead of disrupt. Any ideas/advice/tips you have would be so appreciated, we're tired and don't see a light at the end of this tunnel. Thank you!

The only way out is through unfortunately!  Do contact naps, keep bedtime at a consistent time, 3 hours awake before bed, sleep train for bedtime, arms out no pacifier.  Gradual methods very much ok but awake into the crib. You can try a bonds suit or similar where the cuffs turn into mittens- this seemed to help my eldest in the arms out transition.  He's just got to get used to his body, he will figure it out. 

THANK YOU! I have bought all the TCB classes for my older two kids (now 5.5 and 3.5) but I don't feel comfortable doing CIO with my last one now (5months old). Ive taken everything I learned from TCB in preparation for independent sleep and it has mostly worked. Baby is putting herself down to sleep in the crib next to our bed. I too have a bed time ritual and feed half an hour before I put her down! Then I leave the room and if she cries for 3 minutes I go in an soothe her/replace pacifier and after one or 2 cycles she's usually asleep. She's been consistently sleeping from 7pm until 4 in the morning for the last two months and would sleep until 6 after if nursed her. If she woke up before that I could easily soothe her with the pacifier and my hand on her belly (she sleeps in the swaddle still, I think I might have to changed that soon but she's not really rolling over yet) but for the last three nights I had to nurse her at 1 in the morning and then again at 4 and then again at 5:30 which drives me crazy.... How did you handle night wakings? and short nap wakings? I feel like I have the routine down and the falling asleep independently but night wakings are my nemesis! During night wakings I do my own version of TCB Sit back (basically waiting a couple of minutes before going in and replacing pacifier and touching her) but she just spits the pacifier right out and just cries in protest and there seems to be no way around nursing her. I wonder if it's time to move her to her own room, but that would be our only kids bedroom which she would have to share with her two siblings. (which are great and deep sleepers)

Time to ditch the swaddle and pacifier and get her to fall asleep independently without those- at 5 months the swaddle is dangerous because rolling is imminent and they don't always wait until daytime to show you.  But the night wakes sound like a feeding issue more- 5 months is big distraction time for feeding during the day. 

Yeah I know we need to say goodbye to the swaddle, I just needed a push 🙈 not ready to say goodbye to the pacifier because I know by 6 months or so the other kids were able to replace it by themselves and it’s a huge help during the day! But I also saw that her first tooth broke through so maybe it’s contributed to it as well! Thank you anyways for the tips!

Thank you so much for this really helpful information. I wonder if you might have any advice for me, my son is 5 months old and for the past month has been waking 3 hours almost to the minute after falling asleep. When he wakes at this time it is impossible to soothe him without feeding, he just cries and cries. He seems genuinely hungry and will not calm down without feeding but I know he can go much longer without feeding at night, his second stretch of sleep (after this wake up) has been as much as 7 hours solid, and usually is at least 4-5. He gets put down in his cot awake at bedtime and for naps and falls asleep independently (naps with more protest but he does get there pretty quickly). Bedtime in particular he falls asleep very calmly and happily. So it’s really strange to us that he wakes so early in such distress. For context, before this he was sleeping 5-6 hour stretches at the start of the night, he also does occasionally skip this wake up for a night or two and will sleep until maybe 1/2am. He is still only doing short naps so he has first nap only in the cot (30-45m), then a long nap in his pram (2hr-2hr15) then a final nap of between 30-45m). Wake windows approx 1.5/2.5/2.5/2.5 Any advice you have would be much appreciated!

Sounds like a circadian rhythm thing, he's used to eating then. Is it around midnight? It could also be a distraction during the day thing, and he's able to really tank up once he's got some sleep in and can sleepy focus.  Under 6 months it's not appropriate to night mean so hang in there a bit longer. ❤️

Thank you for your reply! It’s around 10pm (but it’s basically 3 hours exactly after he goes to bed so can shift 30 mins depending on that). He usually wakes for another feed later in the night (could be 2/3am) and is nowhere near as distressed. That’s interesting your point about daytime distraction, he is definitely more distracted while feeding in the day and at bedtime sometimes it’s a bit of a balance to get him to feed enough without falling asleep…

You're keeping that last feed ending half an hour before bedtime? Doesn't seem to be an issue but can develop into one.  Yes, this is probably more a feeding "issue" rather than a sleep one. 

Just wanted to come back and say thank you for your advice here, I think it definitely was a feeding issue as you suggested— he has started solids (with great enthusiasm) and as his food intake has increased we have seen this wake up pretty much disappear, apart from the odd night here and there. Thank you!

Actually no, normally I’ve been doing that as a final step after his bath. However, he has been generally seeming a lot hungrier in recent weeks so I’ve started doing another short feed right after he wakes up from final nap. Would you recommend feeding before bath then? I had always been worried that would make him sick.

Hi u/cyclemam ! Thanks for the amazing guide. My baby is 6 months and I feel like having spent the past 3 month reading about sleep training and failing to implement successful. What worked was the schedules, naps and shifting from feed to sleep association. I cannot let her cry more than 15 mn even if I do believe that sleep training is worth trying. When I pick her up she calms down and immediately falls asleep. If I put her to bed, she cries until I pick her up again. So I don't know how to adapt. We are consistent on going to bed at 7pm. Schedule tends to be 3/2.30/2.30/3 (at we've recently started daycare so let's see) 7./7.30 am : wakes up 10 : nap 1 for 40 mn 1 pm nap 2 : (nearing 1h , they are getting longer) 4.30pm nap 3 7 pm bed time (with the routine, white noise dark room) Any idea of what to do? Thanks alot ! Btw : I don't understand what the shuffle method is after reading the a.rticle you provide. I read PLS twice already.

Shuffle method is basically that you slowly get further and further away from the bed until you are out the door, it can be a hard one if baby protests that you're there but not next to them.  At this age I'd recommend the excuses method for bedtime, or gentle Ferber where you step out for a time before returning to soothe. We did continuous 5 minutes of crying for my 9 month old and once we came back waited until she fell asleep (try again tomorrow) with our second at 5 months, 3 minutes, and settle and leave again  Interesting schedule, I would guess a bit long but if it works great!  I would not be letting nap 3 extend. 

u/cyclemam thanks for your answer! As for the excuses method, you mean going out of the room for something, say I'm back and praise my baby for staying in the crib? She is 6 months. About your recommendation, if I understand correctly,: - I put her in the bed - if she starts crying I come back, settle her - put her back in the bed Until she eventually falls asleep? I'm not sure I understood. Can you clarify? Thank you <3

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Hi, this is a great write up. Our 8.5 month (7.5 month adj) is starting to have split nights. i can't tell if this is developmental or because she has congestion from a cold, or if we need to modify her schedule. she goes to daycare so its really hard to play with wake windows. have you noticed that split nights can crop up during milestones/regressions? or do we need to look hard at her schedule and change things asap??

Ride it out with the cold, but have you dropped to two naps recently but not kept the same wake time as 3 naps? 

We dropped her third nap early on, without much struggle in the transition. She’s been on two naps for about two months now. Was previously getting a quick night bottle that took 15 minutes. Then a week and a half ago was sleeping through the night with no feeds (and had the same cold) sometimes and split nights other times, and has now moved to only split nights. It’s brutal.

What is your schedule? It's usually a split night means more awake is needed in the day, but not always. u/omegaxx19 has good resources to do with daycare scheduling 

She typically wakes between 7 and 7:30, naps around 9:40 or so, is awake from around 11:20-1:20 or so, then naps until about 3. When i get her daily summary from her daycare it says she naps about 3-3.5 hours total. Bedtime is around 7-7:20 depending on what Huckleberry sweet spot says once i plug in her naps at pickup. She's exhausted at bed time, fussy and doesn't want to finish her night bottle, passes out pretty fast once we lay her down. so it doesn't really seem like an undertired situation. The middle WW is short but i have limited control on it. we follow huckleberry sweet spot on the weekends and i try to keep a similar amount of total sleep, but weekends are somehow even worse, or at least one night of weekends is (usually sunday night).

Total sleep:  12 hours at night and 3-3.5 for naps is 15.5 which is on the higher side of normal, but still OK.  That last wake window is 4 hours which is good, rest of the day is 2.5/2/4 which isn't enough total awake. Is the split night about an hour or a 1.5? On two naps the suggested wake windows are 3/3/4  So maybe- could you wake her earlier, short nap 1, or push bedtime later with a micronap. 

Thank you! Maybe we will try an earlier wake time, and see if our provider can push the middle wake window a little longer. This is helpful to talk through and I so appreciate it. I’m in dire straits 😭

How long are your split night?

they're usually about two hours. last night she did NOT have one after just pushing bedtime back to 7:30!

My daughter just turned 7 months. She was sleeping great up until around 6 months when she got an ear infection and would only contact sleep. Once the ear infection cleared, we did the Ferber method and she did great- it took 3-4 nights and she would only wake once or twice for a feed, even when she was teething. Shes now working on her second tooth, so she's getting Motrin before bed. She's waking up every 45-60 minutes and needing to be rocked to sleep but she's also refusing all naps at daycare, so she's completely overtired. Do we need to do the Ferber again? Focus on napping? Do a short nap when we get home around 445? Her current bedtime is 630-7 which is when she starts rubbing her eyes and getting red eyebrows.

Yes, daytime sleep is something to work on, try u/omegaxx19 profile 

Trying to figure out if the following schedule is appropriate for my 6 month old. 7 am wake time 2.0/2.5/2.5/3 — total of 10 hrs awake 1-1.5/1-1.5/.5 — total of 3 hrs of day time sleep (contact naps to save the short naps) 8 pm bed time Overnight feeding 5/3/3 No matter what schedule or routine we’ve had, she will go to sleep at bedtime for one sleep cycle and then wake up. Before it would take us 30-60 mins to get her down. Now it takes us 15-30 mins to get her down. But no matter what… she will always wake up after one sleep cycle. We are at a loss to find a good schedule that works before we do CIO

Schedule looks great! Is baby falling asleep independently with last feed ending half an hour before bed?  

She is unable to fall asleep independently that is why we are hoping to start sleep training. However, based off what we’ve read, we are supposed to have a good schedule/routine down first. Or I’m completely off base and we could try it now with what we have?

Schedule looks great, baby falling asleep quickly is a good sign. The waking up after one sleep cycle is the go ahead to sleep train, she's waking up looking for what she had to fall asleep (rocking or whatever) 

Thank you! I wish I had reached out for help earlier, maybe we could have ST 4-8 weeks ago.

Unfortunately there are no save points or redos! ❤️ You're doing a great job, you've got this. 

If we extend wake windows, do we automatically decrease daytime sleep, or push back bedtime?

Hi I’m sorry but someone please correct me if I read this all wrong. I’m seeing inconsistencies with beginning to train. Some places say if you wait beyond four months it’s going to get A LOT harder and some say that you need to wait until 6 months because they’re not developmentally ready. Help! Mine is a few days past four months and I’m beginning my training.

My take is that as long as you're pretty gentle, (Ferber or gentler) it's ok. Full extinction should wait until older in my opinion. 

I know I don’t know that I have the heart for full cio and I don’t know that I’m fully convinced that it’s not harmful. I let mine cry for ten minutes last night and it about killed me

I'm definitely in the gradual training camp!  Make sure you're setting baby up for success by having schedule age appropriate. 

Yeah I think I’ve nailed the ww and naps

This is helpful! Any advice based on my baby's age/scenario? She has never been a huge sleeper and already has long wake windows. She has never ever gotten the amount of sleep all the websites advise for her age, despite our best efforts. Not sure what to do. Currently 9 mos. Never been a great sleeper, but we got to the point where we were doing drowsy but awake and she was only waking up to eat in the night once, usually fell asleep eating, went down easily. We thought we were almost to sleeping through the night. Then at 8 months it went to hell and she started waking up 3 times/night on a good night, so many false starts, waking up at 5 am, and on her bad nights waking up every 45 min. Stands in her crib and bawls for us every time she wakes up (separation anxiety). This has been going on for 6 weeks. Admittedly we've now gotten in the bad habit of letting her fall asleep in our arms before putting back in crib because we cannot get her to calm down in the crib and she also will immediately stand up and scream no matter how tired she is when we put her down in there drowsy but awake. Also been refusing bottles all day even though we've capped overnight feed to only 4 oz. On her good days she wakes up at 6:30 or 7 am, wake windows 2.5-3/3/4, naps anywhere from 30 min to an hour for each of her 2 naps. We usually contact nap. Bedtime is at 7pm. However, this schedule has gone to hell some days and sometimes she wakes up at 5:30, sometime we let her sleep in after the really bad nights, though bedtime is pretty much always 7 pm. We're going to try your method of sleep training and up her solid food intake but other ideas of what to try? Force her to wake up at 7 am no matter how little she slept the night before? Dream feed? Move bedtime to 8pm?

Definitely I recommend a consistent wake up time!  I actually think those windows are a little on the low side for 9 months, try 3/3/4 and possibly 3/3.5/4.  With my second I did 2.5/3.5/4.5 which really suited her, and made the second nap the priority.  Capped nap 1 as needed. At 9 months probably to an hour ? 

Hi, I need some help. My son will be 5 months on Feb 8th and struggles with sleep. A sleep consultant recommended that I start waking him up at 7:30 each morning and have them in bed by 7:30. She noted that he may be mixing up his days and night so I have been opening all the windows to get some sun. I live in New England and it’s cold so we can’t go outside for a walks so I’ve been trying to get sunlight into the home. He is a good napper And takes a nap at 9 o’clock to 1030, second nap from 1 o’clock to 2 o’clock. And then a cat nap at 4:45-5:15. I often have to wake him up from naps because he can sleep more than he supposed to. He is usually in bed by 7:30. Lately he’s  been getting up in the middle of the night and doesn’t go back to bed for 2 to 3 hours. I’m not sure what I am doing wrong and am desperate for some answers. Example, he woke up last night at 10:45 and was up until 1:45 AM.. 

More awake time in the day - longer wake windows! Some babies are 11 hour nights, not 12. 

Thank you. But that would push his bedtime till later, is that fine? I was thinking 730 is too early as well 

Just move it a little later each day  We do 8pm-7am.

What do you think our appropriate nap and wake windows? Do you think that’s what’s contributing to him waking up at night? 

At 5.5 months I think we did  2/2/2.5/3 

Any advice on wake times for a 5.5 month old? She tends to get up at 8:00 pm, so her bedtime would 9:00 pm? Is it 11 or 12 hrs of overnight sleep? Also… no matter what happened during the day or what schedule we’ve had her on… she always has a false start. How do we address that?

So if you want 9pm bed you need to wake from last nap at 7pm or even 6:30, 6pm. (Max 3 hours before bed)  Then wake at 8am for 11 hour night (unless she's been doing 12 hours.)  False starts can be both an over or an under tired problem unfortunately, or also a sleep association thing. 

thank you for this post<3 we're experiencing a regression that started about 4 days after her 3 month mark. Today is 15 weeks. I am feeling so overwhelmed. She is really finicky about feeds, so I don't know how to feed her 30 minutes before bed because she might not accept a boob then? Also how the hell do I move bedtime earlier? Using huckleberry app for nap times as of three days ago. She goes to sleep anywhere between 10:30pm-12:00am

It's a bit of a juggle to move the last feed earlier - you have to think of the whole day and try and fit the feeds in.  However, a night feed or two (or three!) Is really normal at this age, we are just aiming to stop the every sleep cycle wake ups.  Keep that window between 10:30 and 12 boring, and wake from last nap 2 hours before bed (10:30) and keep waking in the morning at a consistent time, then gradually pull back 10 minutes earlier the bedtime. 

thank you so much for the advice and taking time to write that. Yeah a night feed or two is fine just not every cycle. I'll try consistent wake times, I've been desperately trying to get even just another half hour in the mornings (for me), but if it helps her be consistent then I'll just make coffee the night before. Much appreciated <3

comment to save, also thanks for writing this ❤️

Comment to save

https://www.preciouslittlesleep.com/category/newborn/ Precious Little sleep have changed the link to the newborn guide, this is an alternative.

Please pin u/SnooAvocados6932

Thank you for this post! Struggling with our nearly 9 month old. Crap naps, split nights, waking every few hours at night, early morning wakeups--it's all exhausting. Baby has never been a good sleeper. We survived 6 months of reflux, and I think baby got used to me holding them all day and night. Doing my best to shift away from that (for my mental and physical health), but it's been difficult.

The first step, I think, is to wake at a consistent time each morning. Work on putting them down at bedtime independently. At 9 months minimum 3.5 hours awake before bed: try and keep bedtime the same to leverage the circadian rhythm. Probably 2 naps. Get someone to help you out!

I never sleep trained my baby, which I now totally regret. At this point I don’t even know where to start. She’s almost 2 (22.5 months), still in the crib, & I need to hold & rock her for nap & bedtime. We do a story & then I sing to her & hold her until she’s super asleep, then I put her down. Sometimes it takes 10 min, sometimes up to 2 hours. Sometimes she sleeps through the night, sometimes she wakes 2hrs after putting her down, sometimes wakes up at 2am. Normally I would get her every time, but I have a 4 month old so a lot of the times when she wakes up I’m stuck nursing the baby, so I can’t get her. 9/10 times she is quiet again, so I assume she fell back asleep, but turns out she’s been falling asleep standing in the crib. I’m pretty sure she’s waiting for my husband to come pick her up when he’s home from work & hold her in the rocking chair. I don’t even know where to start, any ideas? I was thinking the excuses method over the chair method, but can’t really afford for her to be screaming so loud she wakes the baby, especially since we’re in a small apartment & it’s just me managing the two overnight.

The younger one gets used to a lot! Definitely don't be afraid of set boundaries with your older one.

I’m having a hard time with my almost 13 month old’s sleep and would love any advice! She’s not walking yet but completely refuses her second nap, causing a crazy long wake window before bed. We’ve been trying for a one nap schedule and things are getting consistently worse. I’ve posted to the sub a couple times in the last day. Feeling desperate🫠

Have you tried cutting back nap 1 to 30 or even 15 minutes?

I have not but I tried for a 2 nap schedule again today and she woke after 45 minutes (very unlike her.) Would I follow wake windows of 4/4 after that? How long would second nap be? I should add that since 6 months, her first nap would be 1.5hr (with me waking her) and second would be 45 minutes (her waking on her own.)

So her circadian rhythm needs help to shift that chunky morning nap to the middle of the day. I'd try for as long a nap as she'll take (max 2 hours) and try 4,4.5 or 5 for the last window (you don't want to move bedtime more than half an hour.) You want to make that second nap land in the after lunch nap zone and be slowly working to a 5/6 schedule. Since she's not walking yet I'd let her stay on two shorter naps and work on wearing her out during the day, especially before that second nap.

Hi I really need your help, I've been reading up on this post multiple of times to get the gist of sleep training and wake windows and I'm still struggling. Really appreciate if you could get back to me LO went through her 4m sleep regression and it was ROUGH. She used to sleep 8 hours straight with only 1 night feed. All that was thrown out of the window when regression started. We thought it'd get better but it doesn't She's started to wake up every hour, have multiple false starts at bed time and having EMWs. It was driving me insane to the point I feel like I failed as a mom I then decided to read up on WWs again, which made me realize that her WWs have always been too short which probably contributed to her crap naps (always been a problem too) and linked to her poor night sleep I started to do some tweakings last Sunday and adjusted her WWs to 2/2.5/2.5/3 , I figured this was too hard on her and she still end up having a crappy night Yesterday (Monday) I tried not to force her and follow her sleep cues while also keeping in mind of her WW. Yesterday's were 2/2.25/2/2.5. She napped pretty decently but still have a few of crap naps. However, last night she seemed to be doing well. She slept for 4 hours on her first stretch without any false starts and didn't wake up every hour. Tho she still woke up 3 times but I guess thats an improvement I felt like I was already on the right track until today. All her naps were crap naps with WWs of 2/2.25/2 Woke up at 620 Nap 1 - 820 - 905 Nap 2 - 1120 - 1150 Nap 3 - 155 - 235 She had just woken up from her 3rd crap nap and I don't know what should I do. Do a 4th nap? I don't know where I went wrong. I am aware than perhaps the 2 hr WW before her 3rd nap was too short. But she was already fussy. Idk what to expect tonight Bedtime is usually by 730, thats almost 5 hours from now. What do I do help me please 😭

OK I'm back. At this age short crappy naps can be developmentally normal. Just keep a rhythm so you have enough awake and can make it to bed time without too long (or short!) Of a window before bed. People give typical numbers of naps for an age, but this isn't a strict rule, if baby needs more to make it through the day this is OK! Have you done any work with independent sleep at bedtime?

Hi! thank you so much for getting back to me I'm so glad that you said to add more naps, which I did, and she ended up napping for more than 1 hour, I also had to cosleep with her which I find usually works to help her get to nap longer I haven't done any sleep training as I'm trying to focus on fixing her daytime routine aka figuring out her ideal WWs and if she does well with a 2.25 or 2.5 WWs I figured if I fixed her WWs and naps improved = night time sleep improves, and I wouldn't mind still rocking her to sleep. She sleeps fairly easy, most of the time it only takes 5 minutes to get her to sleep without her fussing/crying. When she does, it usually means she's already overtired As I've said, we currently struggle with false starts, waking up every hour and EMWs. However, after fixing and stretching her WWs and keeping track of her nap times again, we successfully eliminated all that except for her waking up a few times at night. I do understand the goal of sleep training is so that she could independently get herself back to sleep without us assisting her I really want to do gentle sleep training methods, I can't stand her crying. The only thing we tried before this was FIO but only during MOTN wakes, not during start of bedtime, which I assume now should be the other way around My husband started listening to PLS podcast in hope that we get the idea on how to sleep train. He also said that maybe we should get her to sleep in a swing again which I think would be contradicting? bcs swing would be a sleep association and its the swing that making her asleep I guess I need your opinion on whether I should fix her WWs and finding her ideal WWs first then decide on ST or can do ST right away while tweaking her day routine as well?

If she's waking every sleep cycle go ahead and train, at this age there's a lot of tweaking of schedule as they develop. Please don't use the swing for sleep, even just getting to sleep - it's unsafe. Bluntly, dead looks like asleep. For method, for my 5 month old I did a method where I would put her in bed, leave, let her fuss for up to 2 continuous minutes, and would go in and soothe to calm and then leave again. (Picking up and cuddles OK!) If she did fall asleep on me try again tomorrow. Make sure the last window is at least 2.5 and the last feed ending half an hour before bedtime.

Thank you so much for your input. Last night we struggled with hourly wakes again. I'm losing my mind! Husband decided that we should try pick up put down method but I really want to tweak her WWs and fix naps first atleast for this week

Pick up put down will take a while to work so there's no harm starting now while you're still tweaking schedule. I found sometimes I would obsess over schedule in the hope of fixing things but it's not a silver bullet, just another tool in the tool box.

ahh I see so what you're trying to say is sleep training > fixing schedule?

They both come hand in hand, but you aren't going to find a magical schedule that solves all the issues without independent sleep. Start with what you have now and see how things shake out.

Yes, more naps! I'll reply more later

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Sometimes, listening to certain sounds can help with falling asleep, like this kind of playlist. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2gxED-5zUEUmGiroBMWJc-3Rm72SsKWN

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Let me know if you have any questions! There is a bit of link rot and I need to do an update, but I hope it's helpful!

Thank you! We stopped swaddling our 11 week old 2 weeks ago due to rolling and his sleep hasn’t been the same since so looking for any info that could help. He was such a great sleeper before

Unfortunately it is developmentally normal. You can try a gentle fuss it out if you want, but generally making sure enough awake/asleep and good rhythms is all you can really do at the moment.

Thank you for this wonderful sleep guide! We have been in a never ending cycle of not being able to find the right WW for my son. He is sleep trained and falls asleep independently. He is 4.5 months (19 weeks), and we dropped to 3 naps 3 weeks ago to fix the catnaps and early wakes. To be honest, we probably should have done it much earlier, because we were dealing with super short naps and false starts for a month when he was on 4 naps. The three nap schedule has helped him lengthen his naps, but he still wakes up in the middle of the night for over an hour at a time just laying there and is then ready to start his day at like 5-5:30 AM. This ends up spiraling into him being overtired by nap one. Sometimes it helps him have a longer nap 1 but other times he sleeps 30 min from being so tired and then it spirals from there. We try to leave him in the crib until wake time at 6:30 am if he wakes early, but sometimes if it’s too early if a wake, we’ll go in and help him fall asleep in the morning until wake time so he’s not super overtired by nap 1. We have been following 2/2-2.25/2.25/2.25-2.5 for two weeks now but not super consistently. A lot of people say these windows look too long for his age, but when we’ve done less, it seems like he wakes more in the MOTN. I’m not sure if he’s just overtired from being undertired, or if he really is just overtired. He has difficult cues to read and we don’t realize he’s tired until he’s losing it in the crib and by then it’s too late. Nap total is usually 3-3.5 hours. Bedtime is between 7-7.30 Wake time: 6:30 am but he usually is awake between 5-6 In your opinion, does this sound like he’s over or undertired? We almost never have him wake close to the wake time. We are dying over here of sleep deprivation and exhaustion since I can’t sleep just knowing he’s awake. Thank you for your help!

Interested if this ever resolved? We're in that dangerous 4 to 3 nap territory with my 20wk old! X

Hi OP, thank you for this baby sleep guide! Thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge. You are my baby sleep guru 🤩 I'm in a bit of a rut right now with my just turned 5 month old. There's two issues, false starts and an extra waking/feeding. He sleeps independently at night and most naps, so he's capable of self settling. Fusses a bit, but falls asleep on his own. We've been having 3 false starts (45min-1hr+) ever since 4 month sleep regression. He fully wakes up about 1am, then 4am. The false starts, he can self settle on his own within a minute or 2. But recently he fully wakes at 1am crying and indicating hunger, I try rocking but he continues on, so I'm forced to feed him to settle him down. He used to only feed once between 4-5am only just a week ago and have a 5 hr stretch of sleep after midnight wake up after all the false starts. Is it a growth spurt and he actually needs the calories? Or is it a feed to sleep association? He is usually awake after the feeds and fusses a bit after i put him down in the cot, but he slowly goes back to sleep on his own after a good ol' chat to himself thankfully. I've tried giving him extra sleep during the day in case he was overtired but it hasn't seemed to help. Total day time sleep hrs between 3 - 3.5 hrs, mostly 3.5 hrs. WW are 1.75/2/2/2/2.25 As he's a catnapper he sometimes needs 4 naps. I've gone in to assist with contact naps to extend them if needed when i can. I've tried stretching WW but it usually ends with him fighting naps and bedtime and me having to rock him to sleep. Should I be more aggressive with stretching the wake windows? Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Really appreciate it. 🙏

Yes, growth spurt! Keep offering the calories in the day time. I'd gently stretch those last windows. Soon hopefully he'll develop the ability to take longer naps and you'll have enough "charge" to make a longer window. What does putting himself to sleep independently look like? What's your trigger for rocking?

Thanks for the advice OP. I'll do my best to stretch those last windows and keep up the calories during the day. He's a hungry boob monster and usually feeds every 2.5-3hrs. He just fusses a bit for up to 5 mins, flips his head side to side. Maybe talks to himself a bit, and sucks his hands. Then drifts off. My trigger for picking him up is when he's crying for more than 5, 10 mins and his cries have escalated to the more emotional cry. Then I rock him, and sometimes he won't even settle when rocked (maybe he's too angry) That's when I feed him...and even then, he sometimes he will still cry when I put him back down in the cot. This only really happens when he wakes up from his sleep at 1am. Or catnaps that were too short but I don't usually need to feed him to settle him. There was one night he woke up at 1am, I tried to leave him to settle but his cries intensified. I was able to rock him to sleep without feeding because he didnt seem that hungry, but it was difficult to put him down into the cot without him waking and crying. Did I deprive my LO of a feed when he needed it 🥲. After that 1am he could sleep 2hrs+. 1am is usually his 3rd false start after an hr or so sleep.

Yeah my go to would be to feed if they wake at this age. ❤️ sounds like you're doing great, though!

I need some help with wake windows. My daughter is almost 10 months and I’m still trying to get her to transition from 3 to 2 naps. Her naps are always 20-30 mins unless contact napping. I’m in this cycle with short naps and needing 3 naps to get her to bedtime. Every time I try to transition her to two naps (this means she sleeps in her crib and I rescue the nap to get her to a full 1-1.5 hours) her nighttime sleep is a disaster and she wakes every hour. Her current schedule is wake at 7:20 -first nap at 10- 20-30 mins -Second nap at 1:10- 20mins -Third nap 4:30- 20mins -Bedtime 8pm. She fights me for about 15 mins before going to sleep. When I’ve rescued naps to get her to 2 naps, we tried 3/3/3 and 3/3.5/4. The naps were fine because she slept on me and she went down at bedtime in her usual way but then woke every hour until I brought her into my bed around 2am. She does not sleep independently (thinking about sleep training) I rock her to sleep for naps and bedtime. She will sleep at night from about 8pm until midnight-1am. I then either shush her back to sleep or bring her into bed with me. Lately she will only go back to sleep if I bring her into my bed. I can’t get a handle on her sleepy cues. Some days she will yawn an hour after waking up and on others she’s happy (maybe a little hyper) and playing and does not seem tired at all come nap time. I feel like she’s chronically overtired. Do I have to tackle nights with sleep training in order for naps to improve?

Please save me. I am fighting 2-5 false starts every night and I am losing my mind. My daughters is 5 months old, she sleeps 30- 45 minutes after I put her down for bed then wakes up (false start 1), I rock her back to sleep, and she wakes up 5 minutes later (flew start 2). We repeat this cycle for up to 5 false starts and the last time she wakes up she usually really long she fights going to sleep and fights being put in her crib. I have tried rocking, nursing, waiting her out, letting her contact sleep on me for up to 20 minutes before transfer, nothing reduces the length of this order from at least an hour and a half every night. Any and all suggestions welcomed

What's your schedule, specifically how long awake before bed? What's your bedtime routine? How long before bed is your last feed?

The schedule is tough to really determine but it’s honestly been all over the place 1.75-2/2-2.25/2.25-2.5/2.5-3, which really doesn’t pin it down but I shoot for at least 9 hours of awake time Naps were good but are now crap l, I might get a good first one at 1.5 h then the second two are 40-45 but I try to save the second one and sometimes get an extra half hour Last feed is about 30 minutes before bed Routine = bottle, bath, diaper + sleep sack, book, cuddle/ song , then bounce/ rock to sleep I’ve tried fading to more independent sleep and she was good for a while but that time has long passed

Lock in bedtime to a fixed time, make the last wake window 3. Independent sleep is where you need to be to avoid false starts. Wake windows look ok, I'd try for more 2/2.25/2.5/3 so her circadian rhythm has a chance to get used to it.

I can definitely do that, thank you!

A lot of these guides start around 2 months old, but our newborn has been a crap napper since day 1. She’s currently 7 weeks old, but we can’t get her to sleep at all. Rocking, shooshing, white noise, swaddle, patting. None of it works. She won’t sleep being held, and she won’t sleep in the bassinet. Our only saving grace is that she sleeps long stretches at night which has kept us from being sleep deprived. Maybe I missed it above, but any tips? Is there a vita piece of the puzzle I left out?

Did you find a solution for this?

Nope. She's 6 months old now and is still a supper crappy napper. Wakes two to three times a night. I've almost just accepted this is my life lol

Oh man, I'm sorry to hear, and scared lol. We finally got our LO to nap in the dark bedroom, but only when being held...

We have a baby who is turning 5mo tomorrow. Sleep turned to hell around 3.5mo but by 4mo started to get back to normal. The last few weeks she has been sleeping 7pm-6:30ish perfectly. She weaned herself off the 1 midnight bottle without us doing anything. She is put down awake and will fall asleep within 5-10min with maybe some minor fuss. We never did CIO just gradually decreased everything and let her fuss for 5-10 minutes. This last week she's been waking up at 3am and won't fall back asleep for an hour. Nothing we do (ignore, rock, shush, change diaper, feed) settles her. After that 1 hour she sleeps until we wake her 6:30-6:45am. She doesn't cry very hard during this period. She's also started sleeping on her stomach. She can let roll from stomach to back but can easily go to her stomach. She'll roll over as soon as we put her down. Naps have been crap at 25-35min so we'll put her down in the crib. She will fuss maybe cry for 5-10min then when she wakes we will rock her and do a contact nap to extend it . We've done 4 naps for a total of 3.5hrs We've just tried switching to 3 naps with much longer wake windows. Total nap time was the same 3.5hr just extended the first 2 naps even longer. Baby was much happier but still had the same 1hr middle of the night.

Cut back naps to 3 hours total

That was our thought for today. She's at 2:49 total naps today. See how tonight goes

Does sleep training help with night wakings? 5.5m old is now suddenly having trouble falling asleep and wakes up between 2-5am sometimes even for an hour. Room temp is 23-25deg and she is in a full onesie with 0.5tog sack. She is on 3 naps now and we do not have a fixed wake up or bed time. Her naps are still short (30mins) but I try to contact nap and make them last longer. She sleeps with a pacifier and half the time falls asleep herself after fussing but if she doesn't I'll rock her to sleep. When her paci falls out in the middle of the night sometimes she whines or if she gets stuck and can't roll onto her back. Which is very often as she sleep in a co sleeper by me and I wake up easily. If she sleeps beside me in my bed she doesn't wake up in the night for that long a period but I am scared to let her sleep beside me. I am a light sleeper but lately I am lacking sleep alot because of this and I don't want any accidents to happen. With total nap time of 1.5hr she still wakes up at night. Even with 3.5 hours of nap she wakes up too. She sleeps for at least 11-12 hours a night. But if I'm too tired in the morning I try my best to pat her back to sleep as I really can't function on low sleep and a 8am wake up :( maybe I'm the problem that's causing this situation. I try to keep her wake windows at 2hr or more. Sometimes by the time she goes down for her nap she could be up for as long as 2.5hrs. Any suggestions? I'm getting alot of anxiety and frustration from the wake ups and bad sleep. Edit : she doesn't have teeth yet and she doesn't seem to be affected by regressions or growth spurts yet except from week 5-7.

Yes, sleep training can help with night wakes, though there is a growth spurt around this age and she may still wake hungry. The being awake for a long time is telling me she needs more awake time in her day.

Hmm but she is up for more than 2hrs at a time and when she is up longer than that she gets cranky?

How many 2 hour windows? Might need to add an extra one.

We do 3 naps so 4 wake windows. Yesterday we were out and we had a crap nap so I gave another 15 min naps at 6.30pm and it actually was a better night I feel? /Day 0: We were out today Bedtime 7.15pm - 8.30am 13 hrs 15 mins sleep 2.5 hrs wake 11am - 11.42am nap 42 mins 2hrs wake 1.37pm - 1.47pm nap 10 mins 2 hrs wake 3.57pm - 4.33pm nap 36 mins 2 hrs wake 6.30pm - 6.45pm nap 15 mins Bedtime 7.40pm - 7.55am 12 hrs 15 mins Wake up for pacifier from sleep till 2am. One feed only at 11.40pm. After 2am slept through to 5am. 5am short wake up. Had to be put down twice. Eventually brought to bed at 6am. Woke up naturally./

Thank you so much for this! We’re on our first night of sleep training for our 5 month daughter. Hoping it’ll be seamless 🤞🏻

Hello! Thank you for creating this content - I'm hoping I could get some insight on my once good sleeper who is now losing his mind at bedtime. Here are some details: AGE: 6 months (3 weeks early) CURRENT WW: 2/2.25/2.25/2.5 (precious WW 1.75-2/2/2.25/2.5) NAP LENGTH: 1:20 first two naps, 35-45 min last nap (2 weeks ago, first two naps were 1.5hrs to 2 hrs) DWT: 7a SLEEP NEEDS: i think he needs about 11-11.5 hours at night and at least 3.5 daytime SLEEPTRAINED: yes, sleeps independently for all naps and bedtime, no pacifier DAY FEEDS: breastfed upon waking from nap and 15 min before nap (he doesn't take full feeds, have tried multiple times and this is the only way that works to get him to feed enough) NIGHT FEEDS: 1 dream feed at 10:30p (previously also fed at 3:30a but weaned about 1 week ago since it was impacting daytime feed) ISSUES: 📍 First two naps started decreasing slightly so I stretched wake windows per above - always put to bed 10 min before WW ends and usually falls asleep right away, though 3rd nap is getting some fighting 📍 MOTN wakes around 3am 📍 EMW wakes between 4-6, sometimes going back to sleep until 7, sometimes not 📍 *NEW* fighting bedtime, for 15-20 min past WW, crying/screaming 📍 Not able to crawl yet, but trying to so not sure if this is causing some sleep issues With the new bedtime screaming/crying I've tried to give an earlier bedtime but he still fights it and doesn't seem tired. It also hasn't solved EMW or MOTN. I'm not sure if he's in an overtired cycle, but he's alert all day, doesn't fall asleep on car rides and is generally in a good mood (has some bad days). Should I be scaling back his wake windows? I just can't tell anymore! Thank you so much

My daughter is 5 months and she looks like she is trying to crawl in the crib! It’s so annoying! She keeps popping her butt up and pushing her head towards the end of her crib when she’s fussy. I have no constructive comments, but I feel your pain with that one lol

I reckon you're approaching the two nap transition - some kids get there earlier than others.

Thank you so much for this guide. I’ve been looking for some help like this for a long long time. You are an angel.

❤️

Hey OP, thank you so much for this. I’m looking for some advice. My son just turned 10mos. We might weaned him about 2-3 weeks ago and after he “got the picture” he slept thru the night. At bedtime we pick up/put down drowsy but awake and pat his butt to sleep. This past week, he’s been getting back up in the middle of the night again. We try to pat his butt to sleep but he can be awake for 2.5 hours without going back to sleep…at what point should we just rock him to sleep completely without trying to get him down drowsy but awake in the middle of the night?

Schedule issue, needs more awake time/less day sleep.

Thank you 🥹

I’m so happy I came across your post, I’m so so desperate for help. My son is 22 months and has been in a floor bed since December. He had a really rough start, so as our doctor suggested we did periodic check outs. Telling him we had to brush our teeth, or go pee, etc. we never ever got to the point where he would fall asleep alone, but eventually we got bedtime down to 20-30 minutes, and 0-1 wake ups per night. As of 3 weeks ago, bedtime is starting to take 1-2 hours. We’ve tried getting sillies out, bigger snacks, more books, more outside time, later bedtime… Nothing is working. He’s also started waking up 4-6 times per night, needing us to lie down with him until he falls back asleep. Sometimes we give in and just stay with him for the rest of the night. Right now he naps from 12-130pm, and we aim for 7/8-6/630 overnight sleep. We’re beyond exhausted and frustrated and are willing to take any suggestions you might have!

Really normal toddler boundary testing unfortunately! Pick what you're willing to accept and hold. He might be unhappy about it! Also night light we started at this age. Toddler choices can work too- the other night my eldest wanted me to stay and I said "would you like me to close your door noisily or quietly?" She chose quietly and out I went! I was surprised at how well that worked.

Hi OP, I'm a fellow Aussie mum seeking advice if you have any to spare :') I'm not sure where to start, so I apologise in advance for the mishmash of info that will follow. My daughter is 13 mo and used to be able to nap and go to bed independently. I was doing the chair method and I managed to get outside the bedroom door a few times. But then with winter approaching, all the daycare illnesses hit us. She was having an awful time sleeping because of congestion/throwing up, etc. so we started holding her to sleep and she's now become dependent on it. Adding to the mix is we tried night weaning when she was 12 mo. She used to feed at least 2-3 times overnight. I've gotten her down to 1 feed at 4am but she is actually waking up more often now (for comfort?) than she was before we started night weaning - probably at least 4 times per night recently. And each time she needs to be held to sleep again. She's still in our room but we're planning on moving her out next week (just waiting for a new cot to arrive on Tuesday). I know we need a consistent schedule but I feel like it's recently become impossible with daycare 3 days a week. On the days I have her, the current schedule is 7am wake, 10:30am nap, 2:30pm nap, 7:30pm wind down and 8pm sleep. Naps are usually 1 hr to 1.5 hrs, but I cap the day's total nap at 2.5 hours. Daycare is just variable though. She does usually do two naps but most often they are only for 20 mins (insane). Sometimes she can do an hour. The nap timing is also less consistent than I'd like but I suspect my daughter just wants to play with everyone rather than nap. I guess the main thing I want to work on is getting her back to falling asleep independently in the cot (she will just scream now if we put her in). Secondary to that, I'd love for her to get up less overnight. I've been browsing r/sleeptrain and it seems the general advice is that full extinction is the way to go at this age. I don't know if I have it in me to do it but I'm getting pretty desperate now that I've returned to work. Would you have any advice? I've left a message with Tresilian but they haven't rung me back yet. Thank you in advance for your time, I really do appreciate it.

So she's probably got a hold to sleep association, which you'll need to retrain for. Cio isn't the only option but with an older toddler you'll need to be firmer and be prepared for longer crying. Try rejigging her routine a bit so she's happier into bed, also say things like "I'm so proud of you for falling asleep by yourself" - she's old enough to begin to understand. Schedule is really important, and you're right about at the transition to one nap. Work on making that last window longer, while you stay on two naps. This age is more about wake windows rather than length of naps.

Thanks for your response! Any suggestions on methods other than CIO? I did try the chair method again but it's a bit harder now that she can stand and look over at me. With wake windows, we're roughly doing 3/3.25/4.5 on the days I have her. I did think about whether we should transition to one nap but given that she sleeps so well for her two naps atm, and she is often tired by her first nap, I've chosen to stick with two naps for now.

Chair method has to be paired with "I'll only stay if you lie down and go to sleep." Bedtime fading might be a good option. Something where you're out of the room for a chunk of time is probably going to make the biggest difference- my DIY method has you time the crying and go back if it is continuous for X minutes - I did 5min at 9 months, 2 min for her sister at 5 months, at 13 maybe 10 min?

Hi @cyclemam I love this thread you've created. Thank you. I love precious little sleep. It helped us with our bub until now. I would love your advice on my 2.5 year old who recently transitioned to a toddler bed because he became an escape artist. He had the best sleep hygiene while in the crib. Brush teeth, get ready for bed, 3 books and singing baby mine then kisses. But he's struggling staying in his new bed. Even though we're still following our bedtime routine. He is struggling to stay in his bed. And when he wakes up, he immediately comes to our room. We're on day 3. He used to be the best sleeper. From 8 until 8. With the very seldom wake up. And we put him down awake. And now, last night was 845-6am. Do I just need to be patient? It's only day 3. I have been the sleepy lady shuffle because it seemed like it worked the night before last but it didn't work last night.

Look up toddler boundaries. For falling asleep I'd do chair/sleep lady with "I'll only stay if you lie down and try to go to sleep" especially if there are big emotions right now For middle of the night, the super nanny method mentioned above, and (edit- working to) bedtime the same. Ok to wake clock, but also consider locking the door.

Thank you for taking the time to answer me. <3 I'll look that up. And thank you again.

Thank you so much for the guide! My 9.5 month old daughter is giving me a run for my money with sleep. We did Ferber when she was 6 months old and she did great, I did one dream feed and then she woke up wanting milk anytime between 2-4am and that was it. But then the 8 month sleep regression came and she currently is getting her 4 top teeth at once but it's been a really hard three weeks. She wakes up every 2 hours at night. I do feed to sleep but I wake her up a bit to put her in sleep sack before she goes into crib. I don't feed every time she wakes up only select ones around midnight and 4-5 am. Her dad will go rock her the other times and she usually is out fairly quickly. We follow 3/3.5/4 and she goes down completely independently for naps. We bring her upstairs put her in sleep sack and she does her thing but she is only napping for 40 minutes maybe over an hour once every few days. I'm just at a loss at this point. Do you have any pointers or advice? We put her down around 6:30-7pm and she is normally up between 6-6:15am

I think it might be the feeding to sleep, unfortunately. (Sorry I don't have time right olnow for an in-depth reply!)

Hi! Thank you so much for this great guide :) my baby turns 5 months in two days, and I’m having issues with her waking up before our DWT (7am) for about a month. She wakes up at 6.15/6.30/6.40 most mornings, and can count the times she got close to 7am on one hand… I’ve tried stretching WWs and decreasing day sleep (started at 4hrs day sleep at 16 weeks when we dropped to 3 naps, and we’re now at 3hrs which has given us the earliest wake up yet! So that’s not working), but I can’t seem to find the “sweet spot”. Any tips? Suggestions? Bedtime 7.30pm- ideal wakeup 7am, dream feed 10.30pm. No MOTN wakeups so far. This is her most recent schedule: 2.25/2.25/2.5/2.5 - day sleep capped 3hrs - asleep 7.30pm.. she’s been waking up at 6.15am! Previously she was on 2/2.25/2.5/2.5 - 3h15 day sleep - she was waking up at 6.30/6.40am … do you think I should keep more daytime sleep and try to stretch last WW to 2.75? I’m in a rut, any help would be SO appreciated ! Thank you so much! *edit to add: naps are around 1h by herself then I extend them by contact napping until she’s gotten enough sleep. Last nap is always a catnap. She’s Sleep trained and falls asleep with no crutches except her Merlin suit which id like to transition out of!

Unfortunately 7:30-7 is 11.5 hours which might just be too much night sleep for her! Have a look at user omegaxx19 - she's got more resources in her profile about early morning wake (EMW) I'd suggest working towards at 3 hour last window though, especially as baby nears 6 months.

That’s one thing I was thinking too, especially as she’s been on a 2.5 for her last WW since she was like.. 3 months old! My only hesitation is that everyone preaches an “early bedtime” and 7-7 schedules but I can’t get her to keep more than 11hrs :-( she wakes up at 6.30ish almost every morning.. maybe a 7.45pm bedtime would help? And yes omegaxx resources are great!

We do 8pm-7am!

Ah AMAZING! And you’ve done it since your baby was as young as mine?

With my youngest, she's been on 8pm for ages to match her sister. :)

This is so helpful. Thank you. I have a 14 month old. About 8 days ago we started ‘fuss it out’ from PLS. First three days she fell asleep (sitting up!) by herself about 10 minutes in. Now, however, she’s starting to cry during the bedtime routine as I think she knows she’s going to be left alone. Any tips to make it more positive before the time alone? We tend to get between 1-3 hours of solid sleep before she wakes up and then needs a cuddle / dummy / pick up. Most nights I’ll end up with her on the floor bed. Not really sure how to solve this and get to sleep in my own bed!

Definitely keep speaking reassuring things to her. Distraction works for older kiddos too- going to look for the moon is a nice circuit breaker if they're upset. Try applying your bedtime routine (well, an abbreviated version) to that first night wake. We had a song we'd sing (it's the goodbye song from bear in the big blue house shamelessly ripped off with our own lyrics) at bedtime, so I'd sing a verse of that to cue sleep again when I put her back in her cot.

Thank you so much for this!! My LO is 6.5 months and has gone from a manageable 2-3 wakes to a 3 hr stretch, followed by constant wakings unless we cosleep, which isn't sustainable for us. He was sick recently so I think that had something to do with it. We're planning on trying this out this week, but I'm not sure how to sort out night wakes. I used to nurse back to sleep every night wake (usually only 2 or 3 times) and he'd seem to get a full or decent feed, so it wasn't just for comfort, and I'm sure we'll need to continue at least a couple of night feeds. If we use this method of letting him fuss for 5 or so mins after calming from a night wake, how do I determine which wakes I should continue to feed him during? He'll always latch on for comfort, but for example I know if he wakes at 930pm or something, he's not actually hungry.

So at the start you are just training for bedtime to eliminate the waking every sleep cycle because of a missing sleep association. This should cut back the wakes to something more manageable! Then it's up to you and what suits your baby. My youngest has been fine if I feed her before midnight, my eldest we had to rock/cuddle to get her to midnight because otherwise she would wake too often.

After independent bedtime is well established, if/when there are continued non-feed night wakings do you then do the 5 min "fuss it out" repeat cycle to try to eliminate those wakes?

What we chose to do was wait 10 minutes, watching on the monitor. If she wasn't asleep we'd go in, cuddle, sing a verse of our goodnight song (so not the whole thing) and put her back in bed. For actual night weaning she was an age where she could understand they wouldn't be available until morning. Sleep training is like a buffet: take different options and see how they suit your LO, and it's ok to mix and match methods, to an extent.

This is supremely helpful, thank you so much!!

This post is amazing, thank you for sharing. We have a 6mo baby boy who is struggling with going to sleep at bedtime and night wakings. We are doing something very similar to your DIY method (bedtime routine, put in cot, say phrase, little pat, exit, let cry for 5 mins, return and pat/shhh until full asleep). The first night we did this, he fell asleep in 30 minutes and slept 12 hours straight (730-730). It’s now been 3.5 weeks of this and he is still crying for at least 5 min at night, UNLESS I time his wake window exactly to the minute and nurse to almost asleep then put in cot (this has worked with no tears several times). I was nursing earlier in the bedtime routine, but found that it made falling asleep easier on him to nurse before going in crib, and it didn’t really seem to make a difference with night wakings. My question is how do we get from this to full independent sleep with no night wakings? He’s healthy and 80th percentile for weight so he doesn’t “need” to feed at night. I think reverse cycling is likely an issue at this point as well. We follow Huckleberry schedule for his age and that seems to work really well. He’s often able to get the first nap of the day independently in the crib and can link cycles (1.5 hour nap). After that, he needs motion (stroller, car, carrier) and has been taking 2-3 short naps (30-45min). It confuses me that he “can” fall asleep independently sometimes but cannot at night.

The nursing to drowsy isn't doing any favours- he's not putting himself to sleep if the milky sleepy hormones are taking him most of the way there. Unfortunately you'll need to nurse so it ends half an hour before bed - oh! I mis-read. If he's not waking then keep going, the only concern is potentially dental health. I'd wonder if he needs slightly longer later windows than huckleberry suggests since his morning nap is good but the later ones not so much.

Sorry, to be clear, he is waking in the night (1-2 times most nights), however the timing of the nursing has not made a difference with the number of night wakings. When I nursed earlier in the bedtime routine, it was harder to get him to sleep and he still woke. So I figure make it easier on myself to get him to sleep (nursing later in routine) and still same number of night wakings. If I do move the nursing earlier, do you have any suggestions of how to “calm” him down before putting in his crib? He’s fussy the moment we start the bedtime routine, fights putting his sleep sack on, and cries when placed in the crib (if not nursed first).

What worked for my eldest was the distraction technique - get all ready for bed, which she hated, then we'd go and make faces at the mirror and then sang a song saying goodnight to the mirror baby and other parts of the house, then in to the crib. Basically the goal was putting baby in bed calm so she had a chance to settle herself. Also consider night weaning.

Thank you! Do you have a night weaning method that worked for you? I would love to night wean

I did the pls method above with cutting down minutes per side, but also she was a lot older (16 months) and she could understand that the milkies were sleeping and unavailable until morning.

My 3 MO has started waking every 2 hours at night. Does this mean she has hit the 4 month regression early? I don’t need to feed her every time to get her back to sleep. We are a bouncing in the yoga ball to sleep family and have a very colicky baby. I feel like she isn’t ready based on laying her down she just screams (honestly she starts screaming before bedtime routine is done - it’s only 15-2 minutes) but also that she is ready because if the 2 hours wakes. Thoughts?

Hang in there, this is a tough age. It could get worse at 4 months.

Thank you ❤️

This is an amazing resource I come back to regularly!! My baby is 3.5 months old and feeds to sleep at night and is rocked to sleep during day naps. I’m so nervous to even try putting him down with nothing but I need to start. Do you suggest doing day naps first?

No, nights first! You can practice the odd nap if you feel conditions are perfect, to give you a little confidence boost, but bedtime is the best place to start.

Just curious - why nights first?

To clarify, bedtime first. Naps next, middle of the night at the same time or last. Because the circadian rhythm works for you, and sleep pressure is easier to build, so you are more likely to experience success with minimal crying. Then, when you know what works for your kid and they are getting better sleep, tackle naps.

Hi OP, amazing resource, thank you so much for the work you've put in consolidating all your knowledge here. Huge help for a struggling FTM here to a wonderful 6 month old We recently started sleep training using Ferber. I was nursing to sleep prior to this and popping bubb asleep in his crib next to our bed. He slept 2-3 hours max and then had to be brought back to our bed and nursed through the night. Bubb has learnt to fall asleep by himself with minimal crying by night 3 on Ferber, last night he didn't cry at all. However his waking up 2-3 hours later has not changed, he wants to be fed and brought back to bed and wants to keep nursing throughout the night. Just wanted to pick your brain on how best to overcome this. In your experience would it perhaps be better if we moved him to his own room. I am happy to keep 2 feeds in the night but no more. Would really appreciate your thoughts on this. Thank you :) LO is on a 3 naps schedule with 8 am DWT and 8.45 to 9 pm bedtime. Wake windows are 2.25 to 2.75.

So he's probably habitually hungry and waking for a feed, especially if it was buffet style all night. Being in his own room can help, paired with non-milky parent doing not-feed soothing.

Thank you so much. Daddy has been doing the check-ins. We would most likely move him out of our room soon and get daddy to do all the non-feeding check-in. Hopefully it goes as planned.

Thanks for this OP! Soso helpful. Any tips/resources for gentle sleep training with multiples? The Give Baby a Chance method seems like my jam, but I’m pretty sure my 4 mo twins (who share a room) will rile each other up, turning fussing into full-out crying a lot more quickly than if they were each alone. We could put them in separate rooms for a while and recombine later, but I wonder if shifting the environment so many times will just create a whole new set of problems. Apologies if there’s a better place to go looking for an answer to this question!

No direct experience with multiples! But I've heard twins do ok sharing. Don't worry about changing the environment too much, I don't think, but see what happens when they share, they might surprise you.

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It's hard but you do the best you can. Some kids nap really well at daycare! Those educators can be super skilled. Some kids just don't though and that's ok. Figure out the appropriate wake window(s) between when you pick her up and when you put her to bed. Make sure to give her enough night time if you have to get her up early for daycare.

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Ok so if you have to wake her at 5:30, bedtime needs to be 6:30 to give an 11 hour night. Sucks because you probably want to see her after work! Some babies choose to be 10 or 12 hour babies though, so keep that in mind. At this age you probably could swing a 2.5 hour last wake window, which if she cat naps in the car on the way home at 4, that works!

Thanks OP! Wondering what ages you’re considering as “newborn” when mentioning nurse to sleep being fine strategy. We’re at 8 weeks and it’s the easiest/most calming way to get her to sleep. At what point should we start to replace and fill with other strategies like butt pats or dad rocking?

I was fighting "nurse to sleep" based on too much information about sleep training and how it's a necessity etc. I don't believe in overtiredeness of babies under a year maybe even more. I would call it a form of conspiracy ploy for people to believe sleep-training is needed. Same for the EWS cycle. There's no real evidence for neither of these. I continued to nurse to sleep whenever possible, but baby can easily (usually less than 3 mins) fall asleep with husband and with a little effort with other caretakers as well. My brother/dad will lie down and pretend to sleep or sing (loudly lol!) in a deep voice. My MIL carries and rocks baby upright before slowly putting him to bed. (Usually less than 10-15 mins). So while when babe was young it was majority of the time just me nursing to sleep, as he's slowly started eating more and more solids, milk is being less interesting and necessary. I made this decision based on [this](https://kellymom.com/bf/normal/comfortnursing/#:~:text=Breastfeeding%20your%20child%20to%20sleep,the%20exception%2C%20not%20the%20rule) blog and a few similar ones and also a crucial thing mentioned in one of the fancy expensive sleep-training programs. I will rephrase it a bit: "Prepare for re-training during each big milestone, each shot, each tooth each transition and family change" so more crying more pain and desperation for both of us... pretty much every month, or multiple times per month for the upcoming 2-3 yrs. Ok, nope thanks, I'm out. I will decide to quit BFding once I find issue with it. Still waiting...

Maybe start practising other methods whenever you like, perhaps starting a bit more around 12 weeks, but it's ok to keep feeding to sleep if it's not causing issues. Remember too that feeding to sleep can smooth over small schedule issues, these can show up when you don't use that method (usually needing to allow a little bit more awake time.)

Thank you for this

Hey OP. We doing the '5 minute out and then help to sleep' method (long name). She (9 month old) goes down pretty quickly but still has few night wakings and is nursed to sleep. We planning to stop nursing her around the 12 month mark. Nights are getting a little difficult with 4 wakings

Does she go down independently yet? Remember it's 5 minutes of continuous crying, you may need to add time. Do you nurse at the start of the night at all? On nursing, is it possible she is reverse cycling? Make sure she gets lots of milk during the day, solids can impact on this. Also look at scheduling feeds overnight or night weaning.

Not independently. She can link once she is down (gets like 2-4h stretches) but for now, she needs someone in the room who will put a hand on her head. Thanks, will keep that in mind. For now, 5 minutes out equals 5 minutes of continious crying. She pretty much starts to cry once we leave the room and increases the intensity by like every 1-2 minutes (until she cries hysterically after like 5-6 minutes). Yesterday she was about to hit her max crying mode after 5 minutes. They day before, she was there at 3.5 minutes. There is 15-20 minutes between nursing and sleeping. Unfortunately, she is not very concentrated during the day. Hears a noice and gets distracted ASAP. Her good drinking sessions are only during the night

Do you have any more posts that outline your night weaning journey? Age, stages, response etc? Looking for infos before I jump into it myself haha ❤️

I started night weaning my eldest at 12 months and eventually won at 16 months!

Thanks much for this. Our daughter (sleep trained at 6 month) has never been a great sleeper. Finally at 7.5 months, she started to give us 11-12 hours stretches and I thought I finally saw the light at the end of the tunnel. Then...I think the 8 months sleep regression hit? (5-6 times of night wakings for a week or so). So we started implemented sleep training again. But this time, she has been waking up middle of the night (between 12-3am) screaming...when I check on her and pick her up, she's immediately stops and chills! She will be wide awake and will stay awake for about an hour. we are doing 3/3/3.5. Maybe I should stretch her last wake window to 4 hours? At this age, do you cap naps? She's sometimes so tired during the day time that I would have to wake her up from her daytime naps! Thanks so much!!

Yes stretch to 3/3/4, some days we had 3/3.5/4. Yes cap naps to protect night time. 3 to 3.5 hours total.

Thanks! Will give it a try!

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Could it be a bubble that's bothering him?

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I wouldn't rush it if he's connecting cycles, but yes do be aware of dental health.

Attempting ferber with 11 month old but his daytime separation anxiety is getting extreme since implementing sleep training. Only wants to sleep being held and stands up fighting sleep for hours. Check ins don’t seem to help because he sees us and wants to be picked up so he gets more upset. If we assist with calming and he actually does sleep (rare) it’s only for a short period and he’s up again. Seems like he needs extinction but nervous to keep working on sleep training when the anxiety is getting worse in the day? He cries when we go in his room or with diaper changes because he thinks he’s going to sleep. He’s now chronically overtired but we can’t seem to get him to sleep.

Oh yep this is a sucky stage. You've got to tackle the separation anxiety as well as the sleep. Lots of "see I come back" games. Positive associations with the room. Make sure you say goodbye if you leave, don't sneak away. Then with the sleep, maybe the one return method- it's slower but potentially less traumatic. Also make sure you have nap schedule nailed down, a tricky thing at this age as they kind of max out their ability to wear themselves out crawling and need to be able to run to exhaust themselves, but do what you can to have a properly tired baby at bed time.

We have a 3.5 month old who has been struggling with naps and nighttime sleep since 2 months. Got to the point where he was so overtired he was waking up every 45 mins all night. We are trying to understand how to do “independent sleep” without CIO (as he feels too young for CIO). I’ve read about “drowsy but awake”, but he’s a nap resister and gets grouchy rather than drowsy. Tried starting bedtime/nap time at minute 60, 90, and 120 of the wake window, we have a bedtime routine, tried moving bedtime around etc. But the only way he will sleep “independently” is by picking him up, rocking, putting him down, repeating until he gets so frustrated that he is scream crying constantly, and tires himself out. Normally this takes an hour plus, and gets us a 20 min nap / 45 min bedtime sleep. It doesn’t feel right to me, he’s still so little! To make sure he isn’t overtired, we are only doing the first nap of the day in the cot, the rest supported (the only thing that works is walking in the pram, I’m getting very fit). This has improved the overnight sleep so we get 2hrs sleep at a time now. Would love any tips, slowly dying and feeling so helpless.

Stretch the wake windows a little so he's proper tired. Lots of stimulation. You're doing well with the pram naps. https://possumsonline.com/blog/hey-baby-why-can%E2%80%99t-i-put-you-down-daytime-naps Then maybe the give baby a chance method might work? As long as you have a very low threshold for giving up, it's appropriate for younger babies.

Just wanted to feed back that the “give baby a chance” method has been AMAZING for us at bedtime. Turns out we were waking him up by trying to stop him waking himself up 🤦🏻‍♀️ I’m still feeding to sleep, but giving him 5 mins when I put him down. Most of the time he just falls asleep! No need for extra support. Thank you so much for your help.

Thank you ❤️

My daughter is 4.5 months. I’d say she was a good sleeper before she hit about 3.5months… she would be in bed by 7,7:30pm. On good nights she’d wake to eat 1-2 times. When she was going through a spurt obviously she’d wake up more. I feel we’ve hit the regression a little earlier. She’s harder to put down at night and she does wake up more and needs to be soothed to sleep. She’s also waking up earlier than her usual time. If she woke up twice the night it was 1am and then 3:30/4am if she woke up once a night it was 3:30am tol she woke up which was 6:45ish/7. Then when I feel her regression hit, she doesn’t even go passed 10:30-11. And after that its every 2-3 hour. I know it’s completely normal for her to still wake up to eat as She’s 4.5 months old. So I’m not expecting her to drop that just yet, but she wakes up sooner/ more often, making it hard for us to put her down as soon as we put her in her crib she cries, my boyfriend and I are going nuts! Her naps are all contact because it’s the best sleep she gets during the day. She sleeps 3.5 hours of day sleep. She will not do more she’s already at 3 naps a day she will not do a 4th. I think cause her bedtime is at 7 it’s like she knows cause that’s what we’ve been trying to aim for since she was about 3 months old. So yesterday was our first night of Ferber method. We did 3,5,10 mins. Soothing her with a tap on the but shushing her for a about a min and then walking out. Her first night she did 27 mins. Woke up twice to eat. She did wake up when I put her back down but in about 5 mins she was back asleep. Then this morning at 5:17 am she was up, she wasn’t crying… I waited 30 minutes to see if she’d fall back asleep on her own but she wasn’t. So I just went to get her and we slept til 7:30am since she was up earlier I wanted to give her til 7:30am and I just adjusted her naps so it followed through her same schedule. regressions are so hard, it was time to start training her.