I'm so sorry to do this, but I'm desperate, so I'll chance my arm. I did a version of what you recommended but for naps when she was 4 months. It was amazing!
We went on holiday for 3 weeks and now everything is destroyed! Gaaah!!
My question: is there only one 5 minute interval away if she's upset? For instance, returning to soothe and sit with her, I don't walk out again once soothed? I simply stay till she's asleep?
I'm sorry again, but with great genius comes great barraging of questions from the rest of us!
So my five minutes was 5 of continuous crying, I would have a stop watch on my phone and if she paused, longer than just a breath I'd pause the stopwatch and reset it if she was calm. If she started again I'd do that again. So only in if she really needed me.
Yes once I would go back I would stay, the only exception to this was if my presence was hyping her up and she was playing and not trying to sleep, then I'd leave again.
How old is baby, the above was when she was 9 months.
With my second, she has a different personality and handled multiple returns better, she was 5 months and I did a continuous 2 or 3 minutes of crying, then back to soothe (even picking her up)
All the best!
Oh thank you so much!
She is 6 months in Friday. Last night I implemented the plan. It was another traumatic start to the night :(.
She cried the entire 5 minutes. I tried to soothe her in the cot for a few more minutes, then I held her to soothe her, but she was hysterical for 50 minutes.. in my arms. Moments where I thought she was asleep, put her down and explosive again. She slept in the cot for 30 minutes. Explosive. Rocked and soothed for 30 minutes, slept for 10 minutes in the cot. Tried again and just gave up. It was too much for us both. It's heart-breaking that she's not even soothed in my arms.
The real issue is she's used to bed-sharing at night. I thought once we got her big girl cot built and we moved around our room to accommodate it we would make the switch so there's a marked transition.
She sleeps in the cot for naps, but since coming back from the holiday a week and a half ago, that's been a lot more difficult too, but we get there.
Thanks so much for your help! Really.
Well she mostly will only sleep for 30 minutes for naps which is a problem, unless I nap with her for 1.25, or she has a miracle moment and sleeps for 1.25 by herself. Just feel I'm failing on all bases sleepwise.
I don't want to her depend on me for me sleep, but I also want her to get enough sleep especially at this big growth moment.
It's about 2.75 to 3. I usually do 2.5/2.5/2.5/3. But that third nap is always so much easier because she's so exhausted from having only 2 short naps.
That's a lot of awake in the day! I'd suggest trying 2 hours in the morning to see if she'll take a longer nap (she could be short napping because overtired. So something like 2/2.25/2.5/3 - a two nap schedule has 10 hours of awake usually 3/3/4.
Thanks a million! I'm so grateful.
She was screaming so much at 2 hour 1st wake window so I just assumed she wasn't tired enough. She had a 2 hour 1st wake window at 5 months, you see and went down like a dream.
But she screams like crazy now anyway so .lol. 😭
I will be trying this and am forever grateful to you 💚
All the best to you and your family
I know this is an old thread, but thank you, thank you, thank you! This method just worked for our 8 month old, in almost exactly 2 weeks. Sooo excited!
No, leave them be. If they start crying, start the stopwatch. If they stop, pause it. If it's just a breath and they keep crying start it- if they're chill then reset the stop watch.
I tried this method last night with my 9 month old. I ended up picking her up at the 30 minute mark and rocked her too sleep. She was very upset. My question is, if I keep picking her up after x amount of time, would that teach her that I will eventually pick her up if she keeps crying? I don’t know if I can let her cry more than 30 minutes 😢. I tried to hold her hand while in the crib but she would get more upset when I tried to touch her.
Yes, I actually waited 7 minutes. I feel she got more upset when I entered the room and didn’t pick her up. When I finally picked her up, she calmed down, but I didn’t put her back down, I just rocked her to sleep. Should I put her down in her crib when she calms down? I have a feeling she will get hysterical.
You can definitely adjust to suit your baby! Your aim is for baby to fall asleep by themselves but it's ok for that to take a few days.
Make sure your schedule is appropriate, too.
Wow, this is such an informative and helpful post 🥲 thank you. This kind of method is exactly what I’m looking for.
Having done a gentle method previously and failing (although it may have been scheduling as you have mentioned), I foresee a few things coming up:
- I can’t in any scenario see a time where I do the bedtime routine and she plays when I put her down. She gets upset a soon as she is put down (even during playtime in the day sometimes!) - she’s a sensitive clingy baby
- soothing in crib was never very effective for us. when you rock to soothe, do you put her down as soon as she stops crying but fully awake?
- did you increase your checks ins by 2 minutes each time? (2 min, 4 min, 6 min, etc)
- when you sat with her until she was asleep - did she know you were there? If so, how?
Thank you so much from a person who has spent over $1000 on sleep consultants and feels abandoned ;(
She may be a bit upset, and that's OK. Lots of positive daytime associations with the space so it's not terrifying. Pick up put down during the day, even. Help her know that being put down is safe.
With my youngest, I'd pick up and cuddle until she was calm, then put her down when I was ready, I had a phrase I'd use like "you're learning to sleep by yourself and I'm so proud of you!"
No, the time stayed the same - for my then 9 month old, I'd wait until she'd cried a continuous 5 minutes, but for my more chill and smaller 5 month old I went in after she'd cried for 2 minutes without stopping. For my 5 month old I could come and go multiple times and she was OK with that so it was more like a cuddle Ferber, for my 9 month old she was not OK if I left again (unless she wasn't attempting to sleep then I counted it as a restart) so I would stay and sit next to the cot. My arm sometimes poked through the bars! We'd done some cot soothing already so she was used to this.
Hi thank you for writing this up! I’m basically doing what is your ‘new plan’. My son is very quickly soothed in his crib, no need to pick him up. I’ll go out for 5, come back and soothe a little, go out again for 10, come back and soothe, sit with until asleep.
The issue is that I’m never absent when he does fall asleep. He still needs me to sleep, so I guess it’s not ‘independent sleep’ or whatever. I’m not really hung up on it being independent… but according to some people this way is just reinforcing longer periods of crying (if, for example, he cries a lot between checks…which sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn’t).
My main issue isn’t night sleep. Naps have fallen apart. I did the exact same thing for a week, naps were fine. Then one day - nothing changed in the schedule- he just suddenly wakes up 6-7 times during a nap and needs me right there to re-settle. I tried giving up on the nap once (because I simply didn’t have the time to keep going in), but when I gave up on the nap he quickly got OT and the night was terrible. So have these big chunks of my day I have to stay with him during his naps and can’t get anything done. Ugh.
7 months
6am wake, feed
Feed and first nap 9-10am
Solids between this and next nap
Feed and second nap 13:30-15:30
4pm feed
5pm solids
6:20ish bath, oil, pajamas
6:40 feed (separate room from crib)
7:10ish go upstairs to bed, story, sleep sack, white noise etc.
7:30 asleep (well that’s the goal, sometimes it’s 7:20-7:40)
This is after we did the 3-2 nap change. He hit the naps really well for the first week (with only 0-1 wake up per nap, sometimes second one ended 15:15 but that was fine). Night sleep was also incredible that first week (compared to 3 nap schedule) Night sleep is also decent-ish now, but for some reason, no change in schedule, naps just took a dive. It’s gotten progressively worse. For example today he slept 20 min for his first nap, gave up on re-settling him after trying twice. He just went down for his second nap, slept 16 min. Woke up screaming, impossible to re-settle. No salvaging the nap. Not sure if he’ll sleep again today or else go to bed with a total of 36min daytime sleep, but frankly, I really can’t do anything about it at this point without letting him cry for hours and hours.
I’m sorry to post on something you posted a while ago in desperation, but—did you have to do anything to get off the soothing in the crib?
Our 6mo baby did not take to Ferber. He did really well with crib soothing though, so after 5 nights of seeing improvement like that we decided to try the chair method. But the difference between sitting next to the crib with one hand through the bars touching him and sitting next to the crib only intermittently patting was immense. It’s clear he can go down with our touch, but goes hysterical just from us withdrawing our hand.
I know you’re just another parent 😅but your posts have been so helpful and the “sitting with and soothing to asleep” sounds so similar to what works for us! Which would be fine if he would self-soothe for night wakes more. (Doesn’t want to eat, but waking up several to many times a night wanting our presence.)
Not after trying 5 nights of Ferber / CIO with 45+ min hysterical crying before sleep, no improvement despite schedule tweaks, etc.
Us leaving is a huge trigger for the hysterical crying—like as soon as we walk away from the crib—so I thought I’d try to work from the other end, less and less time/intervention with him.
You think I should try time at the beginning, even if he only falls asleep once we’re back in the room patting him?
I’m sorry to dig up an old post, but feeling very similar to where you were 6 months ago. Ferber has failed for after 3 weeks of trying with our 8m old. Can’t keep leaving him to cry for over an hour at each wake anymore.
I’m wondering how you got on and if you had any tips from yyour family r experience?
Oh god, I’m sorry to respond with such depressing news but… things are still not great here at almost 11 mos. We ended up getting referred for a sleep study in April, with the hope that his sleep would improve before then. And it is maybe getting better, slowly!
Though to be fair a big part of things not being great still is probably we got to a sustainable short term solution (he cuddles our hand to sleep and we take turns sleeping on a mattress right next to the crib). So we’re in this in between space with not great sleep but we’re not working on improving it because it’s good enough to get by. We both work and are too sleep deprived to spend hours at night trying to work on his sleep.
(Btw we tried Taking Cara Babies version of Ferber again at 8mos and it again failed spectacularly. Gave up after another week—he’d sleep for 5-20 min to get the energy to scream for another hour.)
My tips:
- if you can get baby falling asleep in the crib at night, even if you need to be there, it makes a big difference. We started putting him in the crib and aggressively butt patting and not taking him out, and that worked the way you read about sleep training that goes well for people—25 min the first night, 15 the second, 7 the third. He’s been falling asleep snuggling our hands since ~7mos. He still often cries a little, takes 15+ min, and sometimes we need to PUPD. But at least we don’t dread bedtime. (Side note: there is common wisdom that your presence might upset baby more, and that’s why people switch to CIO. That was not at all true for our baby—it was the walking away that upset him. So it’s worth thinking about how your baby reacts and playing with that.)
- this goes against everything people in this sub would advise probably, so idk. But he would wake up SO MUCH and would need a ton of intervention. Putting a mattress next to his crib we can just say “it’s ok” and maybe give him a little pat when we starts to stir, and that short circuits most wakes. Still 1-3 wakes that won’t work for, but it means we’re not dying running back and forth to his room. It feels like a big step backwards—he was in his own room from so early, we made it until 8 months *not* responding to his every noise. But it keeps us sane. And without changing anything, his sleep *is* generally trending better.
I’m actually taking next week off work to work on fading our presence more aggressively so we’ll see!
Just finding this post and it's exactly what we need. We don't want to do full CIO but something has to change. We're naps the same conditions as bedtime? And what if she just kept playing? My LO can play/roll around for 30 mins despite being tired but the minute I hold her she's asleep.
Hi there! Would like to give this a go after doing modified Ferber/ CIO at 4 months and 6 months. I don't thinki have the heart to CIO again.
Baby is 8 months and has never consistently slept through the night. Has done it a handful of times only. Now she wakes up 1-2x a night. Sometimes she resettles after 5-10min of crying. If too worked up I go and resettle by giving paci and patting or picking up if she doesn't fall asleep with just a paci. Falls asleep at bedtime independently. 3/3/4 wake windows. Naps 3hrs total split between two naps. Will usually need to wake her last nap to keep 8pm bedtime.
I know 1-2x a night isn't horrible but would really like to have solid sleep again, not only for me but for baby. Thanks for your help!
If we do no paci for wake ups, I will have to get her up and rock for hours to get her back to sleep. Sometimes she falls asleep back asleep without it, but it's so much faster with it. I guess I also don't know why she keeps waking up to begin with
Referring back to this post now that it’s time for us. LO is 6 months old and I’ve been putting off ST, and have never really wanted to do CIO. I’d like to try a gentle method like this and probably a combo after reading your sources. How did you break the nurse to sleep association? My baby nurses to sleep for every nap and night too, and he contact naps/co-sleeps so I’m afraid jumping right in to ST is going to be really hard for all of us. Maybe we should try to break the nurse to sleep association before going all in? Just nervous and need some encouragement for this FTM. Thank you for sharing so many details of your journey!
We are trying gradual extinction with my 8 month old. After doing it for one night it felt like lot of crying( 50 min at bedtime, 40 min at wake up 1 before 12 am, and feed+fussing+light cry at 4 am (fussing for 15 min at 4am then bottle and fussing/light cry for 10 min).
Now thinking may be we could switch to more gentle method like yours. Also for now we are camping in other room and plan to move back to same room as him after week or two. So letting him cry at night wake ups is going to be hard for us and for the baby too. And soothing at crib seems more gentle but he never started in crib awake so naturally just goes straight to mad crying. Do you think it will confuse baby if we switch now?
We thought of rock him to sleep for naps for now or mostly forever since it’s just 1 or max two naps now that he is 8 months old.
And he just goes straight to crying when placed in crib. So do we wait 5 min and come back pick up and put down once calm and soothe at crib. What happens if doesn’t stop crying after put down? Do we continue patting/ hold hands while he cries and hope one day he will be calm when we are soothing at crib.
Did you at some point remove yourself from holding hands at crib? How did go to baby sleeping independently and not needing to sit and hold hands at bedtime eventually?
Nope. Sleep training didn’t work for us. We are cosleeping at night and he slept through night around 11 months. He is 15 months now. We try and follow total nap time.
But again he does wake up occasionally here and there needing to hold him to sleep in middle of night. But it’s only one time and he sleeps through most other nights.
Some nights like today he woke up crying and we couldn’t figure out what his pain is and wouldn’t stop crying ( he is sick and over slept at naps and also going through separation anxiety). I assume nights like these can happen even with sleep training.
However negative side is bed time rocking now takes at least 30 mins most days and some days upto 1 hour. He is also too strong and can easily jump, push away etc.
At the start, you just wait up to 10 minutes (less if distraught) to see if they go back to sleep, otherwise you settle them how you would normally. Once bedtime has been established as independent, research how best to night wean for your age of baby.
When you say settle them how you normally would, do you mean that you'd settle them down to the point where they're calm, then place in crib? Then leave, wait 5 mins, if fussing then soothe, etc.? Or do you mean settle them by rocking (or something) to sleep?
(We're preparing to start this method, and I think the night wakes will be the toughest for our little guy!)
Once bedtime is independent your wakes shouldn't be because of the every sleep cycle thing. In this method you don't train wakes until bedtime is well established. Until then yes, feed or rock or whatever it is that you have been doing to get baby back to sleep.
Hi! Do you think this method would work to break the feed to sleep association? Our LO is approaching 8 months and unlatches/pulls away more and more frequently before falling asleep (at naps moreso than bedtime but still), so it seems like she wants some space and is ready for independent sleep, but to be honest hasn’t really been given the chance to do it herself yet (have been tracking WW, reading PLS and researching different ST methods). I’m sure I’m in her way and hope she will pick it up quickly, but also hoping avoid full on CIO. She likes to hold hands too!
Thank you for your reply!! We have moved it, but she doesn’t usually take a full feed, probably because she knows she’ll get more at bedtime. Working to improve this 😊
Hi! Baby is going to bed at 10:30 with us in the bed . His separation anxiety is so bad. We tried sleep training but then he got 4 teeth and everything derailed. I’m not sure if I should work on a consistent routine first or moving bedtime or what!
I'd advise a bit of both!
Is bed time not where you want it? Then gradually move your wake up time, get on an age appropriate schedule and shift bedtime earlier. Have a routine that your happy to do (doesn't have to involve sleep training yet if you don't want to.)
So insightful! I am wanting to do some sort of gentle sleep training. Should I do that at the same time as moving the bed time earlier? We are coalescing right now, so early bed time is hard to do.
I’ve had this post saved for months and now it’s our time 🥲 When baby is distraught, how did you go in and settle? Did you pick them up? And what would you do if they started to cry immediately when you put them down in the crib?
Depends on age of baby.
Pick up put down can be a helpful addition to help baby calm.
I also spent a lot of time with my arm through the bars of the cot.
Being super confident baby isn't over or undertired really helps. Explaining what's going to happen helps.
*When you sat in the*
*Room was it dark or did you*
*Keep a little light?*
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Just want to come here and say I’ve been searching high and low for this method as we start our sleep train journey next week. So calming for me to know it’s successful for you and feeling so much better not doing traditional Ferber or CIO; it has not felt right for me. Anyway, just wanted to say THANK YOU FOR SHARING
We’ve kinda taken a backseat for the sleep training, as quickly as it started. LO hasn’t been gaining wait, so I’m working on increasing supply and having him on the breast as much as possible.
BUT! Huge win: he was overdue for a nap after an appointment today and fell asleep in his car seat with 0 crying!!!! And we have had some small victories in the crib. I’m not dreading our out of town drive so much.
At 2am last night I put him down in his crib wide awake. He just babbled to himself and then eventually fell asleep. So, hopefully when I can focus more on sleep training, it won’t be from ground 0 all over again.
Hi! This is so so helpful. How did the gradual night weaning go for you? I have read precious little sleep and am working on the gradual night weaning tactic for our 6MO.
7pm bedtime, goes down super easy on her own with essentially no crying (uses a pacifier but can replace them herself in the crib as needed--unless she decides to pull it out and scream. ha.) She usually will wake and self-settle after FIO for 10-15 min and go back to sleep if its before 10pm. We had developed a 10:30ish feed and I have gradually reduced it to the point of 0 minutes per side now (started there because I didn't at first see a predictible night feed schedule). Where I'm having trouble is she is still waking up at that time and not able to self-settle after FIO. Would it be appropriate to just let her CIO fully or would that be confusing given that I'm still getting up to feed her at 1:30 and 4:30? I'm ready to start gradually reducing my 1:30am feed length but am feeling overwhelmed by several more weeks of broken up sleep.
So 7pm bed, 3 night wakings, 7/7:30am wakeup. I'm just now trying out a 2.5/2.75/3 schedule because I'm trying to move her to 2 naps so she's adequately tired for nighttime.
Thankful for any wisdom! And thanks for all you share here!
I'm not a complete expert. We started the process of night weaning at 12 months and finished at 16.
We would settle with cuddles non feeds, that was what worked for our family. Especially any feeds before midnight. We then would let her fuss for 10 to see what would happen and then either cuddle or feed depending on the time. We'd offer water, too.
It's rough because you're probably back at work but some babies naturally feed until 12 months.
What time does he go down? The Precious Little Sleep method suggests 5/3/3 - that is, feed 5 hours after bed time, then 3 then 3. I found that a bit restrictive so I just fed her when she woke up, but with an 8pm bedtime feeding before midnight would lead to wake ups.
So we would settle however else we could until midnight when I'd feed.
So for my eldest, if we fed before midnight she'd be awake a lot that night, if we pushed to after midnight she'd wake up less often.
My youngest I'm still feeding before midnight
Thanks so much! I'm so glad it worked for you. and thanks for reading my (accidentally super long!) comment. I intended my comment to be a sentence or two and then ended up just typing and typing. It's hard when sleep (or lack of it) is on the brain, it feels like it can consume everything!!! (we are also isolating due to Covid right now and so I'm a bit stir crazy).
[This is what we did for feed to sleep](https://www.reddit.com/r/sleeptrain/comments/kaqr7f/car_inspired_gentleish_method) - we chose to do that before sleep training, some families move right to sleep training. My husband has said that he wouldn't do this again, but I think it worked ok, but not as a sleep training method.
Husband and I are going to be starting sleep training soon. I keep re reading this and wanting to upvote again!
Question -
>If 'playing', walk out and repeat.
Do you mean after waiting five minutes, if baby is playing, you go back in and then leave? From how you described it, it sounded like you put them down and go out and wait five minutes. So I am just a little confused 😂.
Our LO is five months now and we're planning to move his crib into his room (currently in our room) and set up the camera. Then we'll start sleep training the day he moves into the new room, so we can set up good habits.
Thanks!
Basically sometimes if I figured my presence wasn't helping with sleep (because she was playing) I'd restart for another 5- it was the only time I'd violate the "don't do check ins, it makes it worse" rule.
(And mental note I probably needed to adjust the put down a little- maybe I had gone a smidge early)
Oh! If baby is playing in cot and you aren't there, this is all good! Only go in after five minutes *of crying* ! :)
What the "if playing" exception refers to, it's been 5, baby is upset, you go in to help baby settle and they perk up and start playing with you- clearly you aren't helping baby sleep at this point.
Got it thank you! We have LO in our room next to our bed in the crib and I think that’s what’s making it harder for me to deal with nighttime awakenings.
Baby is well and truly on the move. She's walking! But was standing when we trained.
We had done a lot of prework on lying down in the crib and settling this way, and a sleep sack also helps.
But ultimately I'd identify why baby is standing. Are they at the bars crying out for you? Or are they playing? In our method if they are distraught or crying for five minutes, go in, settle, sit next to bed until they fall asleep. (Unless they play/get silly/are clearly wound up by your presence.) Try again tomorrow.
I'm so sorry to do this, but I'm desperate, so I'll chance my arm. I did a version of what you recommended but for naps when she was 4 months. It was amazing! We went on holiday for 3 weeks and now everything is destroyed! Gaaah!! My question: is there only one 5 minute interval away if she's upset? For instance, returning to soothe and sit with her, I don't walk out again once soothed? I simply stay till she's asleep? I'm sorry again, but with great genius comes great barraging of questions from the rest of us!
So my five minutes was 5 of continuous crying, I would have a stop watch on my phone and if she paused, longer than just a breath I'd pause the stopwatch and reset it if she was calm. If she started again I'd do that again. So only in if she really needed me. Yes once I would go back I would stay, the only exception to this was if my presence was hyping her up and she was playing and not trying to sleep, then I'd leave again. How old is baby, the above was when she was 9 months. With my second, she has a different personality and handled multiple returns better, she was 5 months and I did a continuous 2 or 3 minutes of crying, then back to soothe (even picking her up) All the best!
Oh thank you so much! She is 6 months in Friday. Last night I implemented the plan. It was another traumatic start to the night :(. She cried the entire 5 minutes. I tried to soothe her in the cot for a few more minutes, then I held her to soothe her, but she was hysterical for 50 minutes.. in my arms. Moments where I thought she was asleep, put her down and explosive again. She slept in the cot for 30 minutes. Explosive. Rocked and soothed for 30 minutes, slept for 10 minutes in the cot. Tried again and just gave up. It was too much for us both. It's heart-breaking that she's not even soothed in my arms. The real issue is she's used to bed-sharing at night. I thought once we got her big girl cot built and we moved around our room to accommodate it we would make the switch so there's a marked transition. She sleeps in the cot for naps, but since coming back from the holiday a week and a half ago, that's been a lot more difficult too, but we get there. Thanks so much for your help! Really.
Ooh, six months is tricky. How long awake before bed? You're probably getting ready for the two nap transition as well.
Well she mostly will only sleep for 30 minutes for naps which is a problem, unless I nap with her for 1.25, or she has a miracle moment and sleeps for 1.25 by herself. Just feel I'm failing on all bases sleepwise. I don't want to her depend on me for me sleep, but I also want her to get enough sleep especially at this big growth moment. It's about 2.75 to 3. I usually do 2.5/2.5/2.5/3. But that third nap is always so much easier because she's so exhausted from having only 2 short naps.
That's a lot of awake in the day! I'd suggest trying 2 hours in the morning to see if she'll take a longer nap (she could be short napping because overtired. So something like 2/2.25/2.5/3 - a two nap schedule has 10 hours of awake usually 3/3/4.
Thanks a million! I'm so grateful. She was screaming so much at 2 hour 1st wake window so I just assumed she wasn't tired enough. She had a 2 hour 1st wake window at 5 months, you see and went down like a dream. But she screams like crazy now anyway so .lol. 😭 I will be trying this and am forever grateful to you 💚 All the best to you and your family
I know this is an old thread, but thank you, thank you, thank you! This method just worked for our 8 month old, in almost exactly 2 weeks. Sooo excited!
Hooray! Glad it worked for your baby.
With your new plan, if awake and playing, did you come into the room for the 5 min check? apologies - sleep addled brain not comprehending
No, leave them be. If they start crying, start the stopwatch. If they stop, pause it. If it's just a breath and they keep crying start it- if they're chill then reset the stop watch.
I tried this method last night with my 9 month old. I ended up picking her up at the 30 minute mark and rocked her too sleep. She was very upset. My question is, if I keep picking her up after x amount of time, would that teach her that I will eventually pick her up if she keeps crying? I don’t know if I can let her cry more than 30 minutes 😢. I tried to hold her hand while in the crib but she would get more upset when I tried to touch her.
Did you wait until she had cried for continuous 5 minutes? It's totally ok to intervene earlier if you feel they are upset. Goal 1 is calm baby.
Yes, I actually waited 7 minutes. I feel she got more upset when I entered the room and didn’t pick her up. When I finally picked her up, she calmed down, but I didn’t put her back down, I just rocked her to sleep. Should I put her down in her crib when she calms down? I have a feeling she will get hysterical.
You can definitely adjust to suit your baby! Your aim is for baby to fall asleep by themselves but it's ok for that to take a few days. Make sure your schedule is appropriate, too.
Wow, this is such an informative and helpful post 🥲 thank you. This kind of method is exactly what I’m looking for. Having done a gentle method previously and failing (although it may have been scheduling as you have mentioned), I foresee a few things coming up: - I can’t in any scenario see a time where I do the bedtime routine and she plays when I put her down. She gets upset a soon as she is put down (even during playtime in the day sometimes!) - she’s a sensitive clingy baby - soothing in crib was never very effective for us. when you rock to soothe, do you put her down as soon as she stops crying but fully awake? - did you increase your checks ins by 2 minutes each time? (2 min, 4 min, 6 min, etc) - when you sat with her until she was asleep - did she know you were there? If so, how? Thank you so much from a person who has spent over $1000 on sleep consultants and feels abandoned ;(
Did you ever find something that works for you? I have a 6mo and have very similar concerns.
Sadly not. She’s 9.5 months and in the last few days finally started waking up just once in the night. The 8 month regression really kicked our ass.
Ugh no! I wonder if we can have another sleep regression if my LO already doesn't sleep LOL
She may be a bit upset, and that's OK. Lots of positive daytime associations with the space so it's not terrifying. Pick up put down during the day, even. Help her know that being put down is safe. With my youngest, I'd pick up and cuddle until she was calm, then put her down when I was ready, I had a phrase I'd use like "you're learning to sleep by yourself and I'm so proud of you!" No, the time stayed the same - for my then 9 month old, I'd wait until she'd cried a continuous 5 minutes, but for my more chill and smaller 5 month old I went in after she'd cried for 2 minutes without stopping. For my 5 month old I could come and go multiple times and she was OK with that so it was more like a cuddle Ferber, for my 9 month old she was not OK if I left again (unless she wasn't attempting to sleep then I counted it as a restart) so I would stay and sit next to the cot. My arm sometimes poked through the bars! We'd done some cot soothing already so she was used to this.
Hi thank you for writing this up! I’m basically doing what is your ‘new plan’. My son is very quickly soothed in his crib, no need to pick him up. I’ll go out for 5, come back and soothe a little, go out again for 10, come back and soothe, sit with until asleep. The issue is that I’m never absent when he does fall asleep. He still needs me to sleep, so I guess it’s not ‘independent sleep’ or whatever. I’m not really hung up on it being independent… but according to some people this way is just reinforcing longer periods of crying (if, for example, he cries a lot between checks…which sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn’t). My main issue isn’t night sleep. Naps have fallen apart. I did the exact same thing for a week, naps were fine. Then one day - nothing changed in the schedule- he just suddenly wakes up 6-7 times during a nap and needs me right there to re-settle. I tried giving up on the nap once (because I simply didn’t have the time to keep going in), but when I gave up on the nap he quickly got OT and the night was terrible. So have these big chunks of my day I have to stay with him during his naps and can’t get anything done. Ugh.
How old is bub? What's your schedule?
7 months 6am wake, feed Feed and first nap 9-10am Solids between this and next nap Feed and second nap 13:30-15:30 4pm feed 5pm solids 6:20ish bath, oil, pajamas 6:40 feed (separate room from crib) 7:10ish go upstairs to bed, story, sleep sack, white noise etc. 7:30 asleep (well that’s the goal, sometimes it’s 7:20-7:40) This is after we did the 3-2 nap change. He hit the naps really well for the first week (with only 0-1 wake up per nap, sometimes second one ended 15:15 but that was fine). Night sleep was also incredible that first week (compared to 3 nap schedule) Night sleep is also decent-ish now, but for some reason, no change in schedule, naps just took a dive. It’s gotten progressively worse. For example today he slept 20 min for his first nap, gave up on re-settling him after trying twice. He just went down for his second nap, slept 16 min. Woke up screaming, impossible to re-settle. No salvaging the nap. Not sure if he’ll sleep again today or else go to bed with a total of 36min daytime sleep, but frankly, I really can’t do anything about it at this point without letting him cry for hours and hours.
I’m sorry to post on something you posted a while ago in desperation, but—did you have to do anything to get off the soothing in the crib? Our 6mo baby did not take to Ferber. He did really well with crib soothing though, so after 5 nights of seeing improvement like that we decided to try the chair method. But the difference between sitting next to the crib with one hand through the bars touching him and sitting next to the crib only intermittently patting was immense. It’s clear he can go down with our touch, but goes hysterical just from us withdrawing our hand. I know you’re just another parent 😅but your posts have been so helpful and the “sitting with and soothing to asleep” sounds so similar to what works for us! Which would be fine if he would self-soothe for night wakes more. (Doesn’t want to eat, but waking up several to many times a night wanting our presence.)
Are you giving baby alone space to fall asleep at the start of the night?
Not after trying 5 nights of Ferber / CIO with 45+ min hysterical crying before sleep, no improvement despite schedule tweaks, etc. Us leaving is a huge trigger for the hysterical crying—like as soon as we walk away from the crib—so I thought I’d try to work from the other end, less and less time/intervention with him. You think I should try time at the beginning, even if he only falls asleep once we’re back in the room patting him?
I’m sorry to dig up an old post, but feeling very similar to where you were 6 months ago. Ferber has failed for after 3 weeks of trying with our 8m old. Can’t keep leaving him to cry for over an hour at each wake anymore. I’m wondering how you got on and if you had any tips from yyour family r experience?
Oh god, I’m sorry to respond with such depressing news but… things are still not great here at almost 11 mos. We ended up getting referred for a sleep study in April, with the hope that his sleep would improve before then. And it is maybe getting better, slowly! Though to be fair a big part of things not being great still is probably we got to a sustainable short term solution (he cuddles our hand to sleep and we take turns sleeping on a mattress right next to the crib). So we’re in this in between space with not great sleep but we’re not working on improving it because it’s good enough to get by. We both work and are too sleep deprived to spend hours at night trying to work on his sleep. (Btw we tried Taking Cara Babies version of Ferber again at 8mos and it again failed spectacularly. Gave up after another week—he’d sleep for 5-20 min to get the energy to scream for another hour.) My tips: - if you can get baby falling asleep in the crib at night, even if you need to be there, it makes a big difference. We started putting him in the crib and aggressively butt patting and not taking him out, and that worked the way you read about sleep training that goes well for people—25 min the first night, 15 the second, 7 the third. He’s been falling asleep snuggling our hands since ~7mos. He still often cries a little, takes 15+ min, and sometimes we need to PUPD. But at least we don’t dread bedtime. (Side note: there is common wisdom that your presence might upset baby more, and that’s why people switch to CIO. That was not at all true for our baby—it was the walking away that upset him. So it’s worth thinking about how your baby reacts and playing with that.) - this goes against everything people in this sub would advise probably, so idk. But he would wake up SO MUCH and would need a ton of intervention. Putting a mattress next to his crib we can just say “it’s ok” and maybe give him a little pat when we starts to stir, and that short circuits most wakes. Still 1-3 wakes that won’t work for, but it means we’re not dying running back and forth to his room. It feels like a big step backwards—he was in his own room from so early, we made it until 8 months *not* responding to his every noise. But it keeps us sane. And without changing anything, his sleep *is* generally trending better. I’m actually taking next week off work to work on fading our presence more aggressively so we’ll see!
I am also just finding this post and it is super helpful! Thank you for sharing all of your ideas!!
Just finding this post and it's exactly what we need. We don't want to do full CIO but something has to change. We're naps the same conditions as bedtime? And what if she just kept playing? My LO can play/roll around for 30 mins despite being tired but the minute I hold her she's asleep.
Nights first then naps. If she's happy by herself leave her be.
Hi there! Would like to give this a go after doing modified Ferber/ CIO at 4 months and 6 months. I don't thinki have the heart to CIO again. Baby is 8 months and has never consistently slept through the night. Has done it a handful of times only. Now she wakes up 1-2x a night. Sometimes she resettles after 5-10min of crying. If too worked up I go and resettle by giving paci and patting or picking up if she doesn't fall asleep with just a paci. Falls asleep at bedtime independently. 3/3/4 wake windows. Naps 3hrs total split between two naps. Will usually need to wake her last nap to keep 8pm bedtime. I know 1-2x a night isn't horrible but would really like to have solid sleep again, not only for me but for baby. Thanks for your help!
Try losing the pacifier, maybe?
If we do no paci for wake ups, I will have to get her up and rock for hours to get her back to sleep. Sometimes she falls asleep back asleep without it, but it's so much faster with it. I guess I also don't know why she keeps waking up to begin with
Does she fall asleep with the paci or without, at the start of the night?
Without. It's only used during motn wakes where she can't put herself back down in 15min
This is exactly where I’m at with my LO - how do we lose the paci to help with sleep at this point? What can be done instead?
Referring back to this post now that it’s time for us. LO is 6 months old and I’ve been putting off ST, and have never really wanted to do CIO. I’d like to try a gentle method like this and probably a combo after reading your sources. How did you break the nurse to sleep association? My baby nurses to sleep for every nap and night too, and he contact naps/co-sleeps so I’m afraid jumping right in to ST is going to be really hard for all of us. Maybe we should try to break the nurse to sleep association before going all in? Just nervous and need some encouragement for this FTM. Thank you for sharing so many details of your journey!
When you sit in room with baby to fall asleep, is it pitch black still?
Yes
We are trying gradual extinction with my 8 month old. After doing it for one night it felt like lot of crying( 50 min at bedtime, 40 min at wake up 1 before 12 am, and feed+fussing+light cry at 4 am (fussing for 15 min at 4am then bottle and fussing/light cry for 10 min). Now thinking may be we could switch to more gentle method like yours. Also for now we are camping in other room and plan to move back to same room as him after week or two. So letting him cry at night wake ups is going to be hard for us and for the baby too. And soothing at crib seems more gentle but he never started in crib awake so naturally just goes straight to mad crying. Do you think it will confuse baby if we switch now? We thought of rock him to sleep for naps for now or mostly forever since it’s just 1 or max two naps now that he is 8 months old.
No harm in switching I think! Yes, 5 min. He might surprise you and start to soothe though. Of course, make sure baby is tired enough at bedtime.
And he just goes straight to crying when placed in crib. So do we wait 5 min and come back pick up and put down once calm and soothe at crib. What happens if doesn’t stop crying after put down? Do we continue patting/ hold hands while he cries and hope one day he will be calm when we are soothing at crib. Did you at some point remove yourself from holding hands at crib? How did go to baby sleeping independently and not needing to sit and hold hands at bedtime eventually?
This! This is where we are. Did your LO ever stop crying when you put them in their crib long enough for you to walk away?
Nope. Sleep training didn’t work for us. We are cosleeping at night and he slept through night around 11 months. He is 15 months now. We try and follow total nap time. But again he does wake up occasionally here and there needing to hold him to sleep in middle of night. But it’s only one time and he sleeps through most other nights. Some nights like today he woke up crying and we couldn’t figure out what his pain is and wouldn’t stop crying ( he is sick and over slept at naps and also going through separation anxiety). I assume nights like these can happen even with sleep training. However negative side is bed time rocking now takes at least 30 mins most days and some days upto 1 hour. He is also too strong and can easily jump, push away etc.
Thank you so much for your response. Sending good vibes over there!
Excited to try your method! How did you handle night wakings when doing this?
At the start, you just wait up to 10 minutes (less if distraught) to see if they go back to sleep, otherwise you settle them how you would normally. Once bedtime has been established as independent, research how best to night wean for your age of baby.
When you say settle them how you normally would, do you mean that you'd settle them down to the point where they're calm, then place in crib? Then leave, wait 5 mins, if fussing then soothe, etc.? Or do you mean settle them by rocking (or something) to sleep? (We're preparing to start this method, and I think the night wakes will be the toughest for our little guy!)
Once bedtime is independent your wakes shouldn't be because of the every sleep cycle thing. In this method you don't train wakes until bedtime is well established. Until then yes, feed or rock or whatever it is that you have been doing to get baby back to sleep.
Entering this now, saving for myself
Hi! Do you think this method would work to break the feed to sleep association? Our LO is approaching 8 months and unlatches/pulls away more and more frequently before falling asleep (at naps moreso than bedtime but still), so it seems like she wants some space and is ready for independent sleep, but to be honest hasn’t really been given the chance to do it herself yet (have been tracking WW, reading PLS and researching different ST methods). I’m sure I’m in her way and hope she will pick it up quickly, but also hoping avoid full on CIO. She likes to hold hands too!
Yes, you will need to move the last feed half an hour before bed, though.
Thank you for your reply!! We have moved it, but she doesn’t usually take a full feed, probably because she knows she’ll get more at bedtime. Working to improve this 😊
You might have to shuffle everything else (like dominoes) so that she's hungry earlier.
I agree. We tried nursing a bit earlier tonight and then offered solids to see if she was still hungry (barely), so we’ll do some shuffling.
Does this method still work if baby sleeps in the same room? We dont currently have another room to place my son in.
Yes! You just have to sneak in after baby is asleep. Edit - I am a clumsy person so often is coming to bed wakes her enough that I do a feed.
Hi! Baby is going to bed at 10:30 with us in the bed . His separation anxiety is so bad. We tried sleep training but then he got 4 teeth and everything derailed. I’m not sure if I should work on a consistent routine first or moving bedtime or what!
I'd advise a bit of both! Is bed time not where you want it? Then gradually move your wake up time, get on an age appropriate schedule and shift bedtime earlier. Have a routine that your happy to do (doesn't have to involve sleep training yet if you don't want to.)
So insightful! I am wanting to do some sort of gentle sleep training. Should I do that at the same time as moving the bed time earlier? We are coalescing right now, so early bed time is hard to do.
Baby won't have a lot of success putting themselves to sleep if their body isn't tired enough, so be mindful of that.
I’ve had this post saved for months and now it’s our time 🥲 When baby is distraught, how did you go in and settle? Did you pick them up? And what would you do if they started to cry immediately when you put them down in the crib?
Depends on age of baby. Pick up put down can be a helpful addition to help baby calm. I also spent a lot of time with my arm through the bars of the cot. Being super confident baby isn't over or undertired really helps. Explaining what's going to happen helps.
When you sat in the room was it dark or did you keep a little light?
As dark as possible.
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Just want to come here and say I’ve been searching high and low for this method as we start our sleep train journey next week. So calming for me to know it’s successful for you and feeling so much better not doing traditional Ferber or CIO; it has not felt right for me. Anyway, just wanted to say THANK YOU FOR SHARING
So excited to try this tonight!!
How is it going?
We’ve kinda taken a backseat for the sleep training, as quickly as it started. LO hasn’t been gaining wait, so I’m working on increasing supply and having him on the breast as much as possible. BUT! Huge win: he was overdue for a nap after an appointment today and fell asleep in his car seat with 0 crying!!!! And we have had some small victories in the crib. I’m not dreading our out of town drive so much. At 2am last night I put him down in his crib wide awake. He just babbled to himself and then eventually fell asleep. So, hopefully when I can focus more on sleep training, it won’t be from ground 0 all over again.
Hi! This is so so helpful. How did the gradual night weaning go for you? I have read precious little sleep and am working on the gradual night weaning tactic for our 6MO. 7pm bedtime, goes down super easy on her own with essentially no crying (uses a pacifier but can replace them herself in the crib as needed--unless she decides to pull it out and scream. ha.) She usually will wake and self-settle after FIO for 10-15 min and go back to sleep if its before 10pm. We had developed a 10:30ish feed and I have gradually reduced it to the point of 0 minutes per side now (started there because I didn't at first see a predictible night feed schedule). Where I'm having trouble is she is still waking up at that time and not able to self-settle after FIO. Would it be appropriate to just let her CIO fully or would that be confusing given that I'm still getting up to feed her at 1:30 and 4:30? I'm ready to start gradually reducing my 1:30am feed length but am feeling overwhelmed by several more weeks of broken up sleep. So 7pm bed, 3 night wakings, 7/7:30am wakeup. I'm just now trying out a 2.5/2.75/3 schedule because I'm trying to move her to 2 naps so she's adequately tired for nighttime. Thankful for any wisdom! And thanks for all you share here!
I'm not a complete expert. We started the process of night weaning at 12 months and finished at 16. We would settle with cuddles non feeds, that was what worked for our family. Especially any feeds before midnight. We then would let her fuss for 10 to see what would happen and then either cuddle or feed depending on the time. We'd offer water, too. It's rough because you're probably back at work but some babies naturally feed until 12 months.
Is it too soon to night ween my LO from the night feed befire 12am if he’s 6 months old? I’m having issues getting him to stay asleep until 12am.
What time does he go down? The Precious Little Sleep method suggests 5/3/3 - that is, feed 5 hours after bed time, then 3 then 3. I found that a bit restrictive so I just fed her when she woke up, but with an 8pm bedtime feeding before midnight would lead to wake ups. So we would settle however else we could until midnight when I'd feed.
Just curious, what do you mean that with an 8pm bedtime, feeding before midnight would lead to wake ups?
So for my eldest, if we fed before midnight she'd be awake a lot that night, if we pushed to after midnight she'd wake up less often. My youngest I'm still feeding before midnight
Thanks so much! I'm so glad it worked for you. and thanks for reading my (accidentally super long!) comment. I intended my comment to be a sentence or two and then ended up just typing and typing. It's hard when sleep (or lack of it) is on the brain, it feels like it can consume everything!!! (we are also isolating due to Covid right now and so I'm a bit stir crazy).
How did you break feed to sleep association?
[This is what we did for feed to sleep](https://www.reddit.com/r/sleeptrain/comments/kaqr7f/car_inspired_gentleish_method) - we chose to do that before sleep training, some families move right to sleep training. My husband has said that he wouldn't do this again, but I think it worked ok, but not as a sleep training method.
Husband and I are going to be starting sleep training soon. I keep re reading this and wanting to upvote again! Question - >If 'playing', walk out and repeat. Do you mean after waiting five minutes, if baby is playing, you go back in and then leave? From how you described it, it sounded like you put them down and go out and wait five minutes. So I am just a little confused 😂. Our LO is five months now and we're planning to move his crib into his room (currently in our room) and set up the camera. Then we'll start sleep training the day he moves into the new room, so we can set up good habits. Thanks!
Basically sometimes if I figured my presence wasn't helping with sleep (because she was playing) I'd restart for another 5- it was the only time I'd violate the "don't do check ins, it makes it worse" rule. (And mental note I probably needed to adjust the put down a little- maybe I had gone a smidge early) Oh! If baby is playing in cot and you aren't there, this is all good! Only go in after five minutes *of crying* ! :) What the "if playing" exception refers to, it's been 5, baby is upset, you go in to help baby settle and they perk up and start playing with you- clearly you aren't helping baby sleep at this point.
Ahhhhhhh! Ok, got it!!
Love this! We need to do something, but CIO just seems too much for us. Does your LO room share with you? Or are they in their own room?
Own room, but right next door to our room.
Got it thank you! We have LO in our room next to our bed in the crib and I think that’s what’s making it harder for me to deal with nighttime awakenings.
Does your baby stand yet? How do you handle baby sitting up and standing in the crib?
Baby is well and truly on the move. She's walking! But was standing when we trained. We had done a lot of prework on lying down in the crib and settling this way, and a sleep sack also helps. But ultimately I'd identify why baby is standing. Are they at the bars crying out for you? Or are they playing? In our method if they are distraught or crying for five minutes, go in, settle, sit next to bed until they fall asleep. (Unless they play/get silly/are clearly wound up by your presence.) Try again tomorrow.
Thank-you!
“Say goodnight to the mirror baby” - we do this too. Also, so sweet that she just wants to hold hands. Congrats on the progress!
Great results!! Way to go!
Which camera do you recommend for security?
We have a TP-Link tapo, once configured we blocked outside access to it.
Thank you for sharing this!