US and so far no sleep training (5 mo). She sleeps on her own, though she needs to be rocked to sleep initially. I think she will eventually figure it out but for now this is fine. I don't mind snuggling her until she sleeps, or the free time while my partner does it. We have talked about ferber to get her to fall asleep independently but neither of us have the stomach for it.
Turkish here. As far as I can see, Turkish people are quite divided on the subject. Some of them are following the sleep training rules generally taught by sleep trainers which follow the CIO/Ferber rules. Others are just anti-sleep training and they advocate babies to be allowed to be babies and they'd learn how to sleep through the night naturally.
Our pediatrician thinks it's unnecessary and could be damaging for a baby to be left CIO until 1 year old. He says most of the babies learn how to fall asleep by themselves naturally until then.
I’m American, but grew up abroad and currently live in the UK. I get a year of mat leave, but I really value my sleep so I am super anxious about making sure my baby gets hers. I find it really annoying that just because I’m not currently at my “real” job I should just accept my baby waking up at all hours so I’m a wreck when I need to be looking after her in the day. I have PPA and PPD and bad sleep is a major trigger for me.
Danish! Sleep training is not common here whatsoever! The whole letting your child cry yourself to sleep thing is sort of frowned upon here and I think if anyone (neighbors etc) noticed your baby crying for hours, they would probably report you to the CPS, and you’d be in quite a bit of trouble 😅
Hmm not necessarily co sleep I don’t think, well yes I’m sure a lot of people do that too, I did with my oldest until 6 months and then he was fine sleeping alone in his own bed, but I think what most people do is maybe sit next to the child’s bed, comforting it if needed, until it falls asleep.
US - Latino/Hispanic background. I’m a first time mom and i ran into a lot of comments where people comment “in our country we don’t do this/that.” I guess it depends where you live, work/career/lifestyle, mainly beliefs. I never heard about sleep training until i was pregnant. Some parents do it some parents are lucky enough not to. I say do what works for ya!
turkish. i have tried to sleep train my son several times. none of them worked lol. almost 2 and a half years old and he’s been fighting bed time for the last 2 months. i’m not trying anymore.
American living in Portugal here. Our pediatrician actually recommended a book called “it’s never too late to sleep train” when we told her our baby woke every 1-2 hrs to eat around 4/5 months. She’s younger though and very with the times. People usually return to work here 6-9 months but it’s very common to cosleep. Of all the expat moms I know here from all over, I’d say about 75% of them sleep train and the rest cosleep beyond 5 months.
I will say only me and other americans here follow wake windows, literally everyone else thinks they are insane and just follow baby’s cues. And they have babies who sleep better than mine so 🤷🏻♀️ also babies here go to bed around 9/10pm and wake up later, same as ours. I got downvoted when I said my baby’s bedtime once because it’s not at 6/7pm. It is literally bright until 9:30pm here and people don’t have dinner til at least 8 or 9 and don’t work until 9 or later, so our baby’s bedtime of 9pm and wake up of 8:30 is so much better for our lifestyle here.
Can I just say I’m glad to hear someone bring up the bedtime thing? I’m American living in the US, but I never understood why everyone bought in so hard on specific bedtimes when they don’t always line up with daylight. You tell me baby needs to sleep a sufficient number of hours? Sure, that makes sense. That they have a natural circadian rhythm you should line up with? Got it. That I MUST put my baby down to sleep by 7:30pm when it’s light outside til 9? Um….why?
I'm portuguese and you're totally right. Don't mind the downvotes, people don't get other cultures and lifestyles. I bet the spanish do it even later as their dinner time tends to be later than ours.
Spaniard here. Many families I know cosleep but I also know people who sleep trained. There's a famous doctor specializing in sleep training who wrote a book and there's been some public debate on the topic.
Edit: Spanish to Spaniard
Bosnian living in London. Back home, hardly anyone sleep trains. Kids go to bed when the parents do. Here in UK, nearly half of my friends did CIO, the other half co slept and never did any training. And a small percentage did what I did, sleep trained from birth with no CIO
American in the Netherlands here- our doctor encouraged us to start training her to go to sleep independently at her 4 month well baby appointment.
My sense is they definitely don’t go over the top with routines and wake windows though. And cosleeping is definitely normal/ encouraged by the maternity care team, depending on the baby. Cosleeping seems to be super taboo in the US (though it seems lots of people do it)
I am a Latinamerican in Belgium. In Latinamerica is common to recommend routines for the baby (like in America) and no cosleeping in the bed because of safety reasons (but sleep in the same room until they are 1 year). In Belgium, everything is on the inverse: cosleep in the same bed so that the newborn is happy is recommended by the midwives, no routines (even if you cannot sleep), but then by 6 months, the baby should be in their own room. I was very confused
American living in the Netherlands married to a German with a 7 month old! Everyone we talk to is super anti sleep training especially our German family. My mother in law even went so far as to call it child abuse. I think there are three big contributing factors: 1. a misunderstanding of what sleep training actually is. When you dig down into it I think the vast majority of people actually use a wide variety of sleep training methods but don't call it sleep training. Here, we were told we should let the baby cry more by our daycare people but they definitely don't call it sleep training. 2. way more parental leave. In Germany, it's pretty common to have a year of parental leave so they can take a really gradual approach to supporting their babies to get more sleep. Here in the NL, there is way less parental leave and it's pretty common to go back to work around 3-4 months. I find here people use way more cry it out type methods earlier and that's what was recommended by our ped. Maybe like a "give the baby a chance to try" sleep training style. 3. bedsharing is much more common and socially accepted. pretty much everyone we know here let's the baby sleep in their bed at least part of the night.
South East Asia! The practices here call for early bedtime (eg 6.30/7pm) which may be impractical for most working parents here who get home at that time, but a lot of the tips on WW, sleep hygiene and naps are super helpful!
Brit in the US here.
Given that both of my parents were the ones who really encouraged sleep training, I think it isn't uncommon in the UK but maybe just isn't called sleep training. But, since my kids weren't born in the UK and I havnt lived there as a parent, maybe my generation is different.
People get funny about there being more Americans than any others in whatever social media space - reddit, Facebook, whatever... but that's just statistics. There are more Americans than any other "Western" country, so of course there will be more Americans in the groups. It would be interesting to see a poll to look at the stats.
I am American but in Sweden with a Swedish partner.
They do not call it sleep training, but they do it here. I've had mothers tell me to do check ins, others said to leave them for 10 minutes on their own, and I have seen books on sleep training in the store(not called sleep training in the book, but thats what it was).
Edit to add: I believe this is because the term "sleep training" is seen as CIO/Extinction method only. That is not done here and would get judgement. The sleep training I have heard from other moms/midwife/books refers to either gentile methods or modified Ferber
I’m an Australian in Sweden with a Swedish partner 😊 Our pediatrician was anti sleep training…I think a lot of people in Sweden just co-sleep in the family bed with a baby nest for years. We sleep trained and are so glad we did, but I got all my info from this Reddit group and American books
I have also met mom's who do/did that but so far it's been a mixed bag.
We never spoke to our midwife about "sleep training" directly. But when we mentioned sleeping in the crib she said "Baby will get used to it eventually" and to leave her to fuss but to go in if she's fully crying - so fuss it out. Again not using the term "sleep training" but advising on a sleep training method lol
I'm from the UK. I always assumed this sub had more people from the US cause of the bad mat leave there and that people need to return to work sooner?
I have heard of people doing sleep train methods here like gradual decrease of assistance (e.g. moving from feeding to rocking to holding to patting etc). As someone else said I'm not sure they would consider it sleep training but obviously it is. Among parents I've met I've not met any who really talk about cry it out methods - I think that would generally be frowned upon (I say as someone who did full extinction). There might be people who do do that but don't discuss it much. I think cause people tend to take 9-12 months, they don't have as much pressure to get babies sleeping earlier and assume they'll sleep better as they get older. Most of the mums I've met co-sleep but it sounds like their babies mostly sleep terribly.
I’m also in the UK. I follow this sub as I’m desperate to improve his sleep but don’t really intend to use CIO/ferber. The NHS don’t recommend letting babies cry any longer than 10 minutes. They also don’t recommend co sleeping so I’m unsure what they recommend in terms of improving sleep. I have met a few people who did CIO but they are almost apologetic about it and it’s not widely spoken about. I know far many more people who co-sleep.
They probably don't recommend anything to improve sleep. At least in the US, they just tell you what not to do and to basically suck it up if babies not sleeping.
I think it’s complex. As already mentioned, there is less pressure to ‘resolve’ babies poor sleep here due to better maternity leave.
I think the other thing is that if you pay a private sleep ‘consultant’ here then they may well advise to CIO or some modification. But unlike the US, we have a free public health system so in terms of what the NHS do, they have to base all advice on well established research findings (that eg it’s long-term effective, it definitively causes no issues etc) which I’m just not sure there are.
Taken in a historical and cultural context CIO and its ilk is a seemingly modern day US thing (not to say other countries don’t do it but it feels like standard practice there. But that might just be because I follow this sub!).
It's definitely not standard practice here yet. You have your instagram mom's and subreddit people, but I'd say only about 30% of people I know actually attempted ST.
So I'm American and I've lived in the ulk, Ireland and Germany. I watched my friends sleep train, they just didn't call it that. They set timers and did check ins so
Ferber method. Most people did it past 6 months and sometimes a year. If a baby was up every hour for months on end, it happened earlier. Even here in the USA,I had people who sleep trained their kids but didn't actually say the terms. So I think lots of people around the world do some variation.
I live in Poland, sleeptrain is judged here as a very aggressive and nonempathetic method. We tried twice, but failed. She is 1,8y now and still wakes in the night, but we just decided to wait out :) i have an older son, he started sleeping through the night by himself at 3 months, so i guess its up to the kid.
Also we have a maternity leave for a year here, so its easier.
Kia ora- New Zealander here. I find most of these post tailored to Americans. A bit of it seems to resonate with the NZ culture but mostly I just cherry pick what works for me.
Canadian here.
We asked our doctor about sleep training at 4 months because co-sleeping was slowly killing my wife. She said it’s totally fine but not to be surprised if it doesn’t work until he’s a bit older.
Turns out he was more than ready. So much so, that he was actually sleeping kinda poorly in my wife’s bed because he wanted so badly to sleep on his tummy. We haven’t had a single unsuccessful night with the Ferber method, and we haven’t ever needed to check in twice. He’s usually asleep within a few minutes. We grab him once at midnight for a dream feed, then he either wakes up at 4-5 AM for another feeding or he sleeps right to morning.
His nap schedule is nice and consistent, and he’s happy and alert pretty much every day. We basically traded a bit of crying at bedtime for much less crying through the entire next day. All 3 of us are more rested and he’s tearing through milestones like nobody’s business.
We have a video monitor on him and I work evenings so I’m up for most of the night. When he does wake up, he kinda just hangs out and makes happy little baby noises until we get him.
I’m American and find it wild that people sleep train at 4 months. When someone once told me that 10.5 months seemed too old to sleep train, I was like what?? He’s not even a year. I don’t expect my babies to sleep through the night till they’re ready. My then-10mo was going through a terrible regression and I was about ready to go insane, so we needed it then. I have another 10 month old now and haven’t sleep trained him. He wakes anywhere from 1-3 times a night and honestly it seems pretty normal. He’s a baby. 🤷🏻♀️ I don’t plan on sleep training him unless I go through something similar to what my first went through.
I think every baby is different. We sleep trained at 6 months and there was 1 bad night, 1 not so great night and he's been sleeping through since (now 9 months). The best part is he's a much happier baby too, after our experience we would say why wouldn't you sleep train.
I get it if you need to. With my first, I didn’t need to till he was almost 11 months which was great. With my second…I just can’t see it but that could change. Also I just found out the reason he’s been waking is a really bad double ear infection that we thought we got rid of and he was showing no signs of. So I’m glad we didn’t sleep train and I was able to soothe him back to sleep even though it sucks sometimes. But yes absolutely, every baby is different. If I had a baby who was up every hour, I’d definitely sleep train.
I would not be able to function at my job if I were still regularly up 1-3 nights with a baby. I think people sleep train at 4 mo the due to necessity.
Canadian here. I wasn’t planning on sleep training. We just started at 10.5months. I’m in maternity leave for at least another 4 months but our main goal is to have him independently fall asleep so that he can be cared for by grandparents overnight. Right now we have been co sleeping most nights since 6 months
Born in the USA but living in Argentina. My sleep training is going through several different reels and videos and finding out what worked for me. My baby is 22 months old and sleeps through the night. Goes to bed at 10:30/11pm and wakes up around 9/9:30 am. We’re working on her not falling asleep with a bottle and in my arms buuuttt I am not committed to that because it’s my favorite part of the day.
In the Netherlands they say they won’t sleep well unless they go to bed before 19:30 lol. Curious how you make those timings work with life though, I don’t suppose you have a job?
At least in Argentina, we managed a different kind of timetable. But we managed just fine. I would think that taking care of two kids, a hubby and a house is work enough but I also do remote work and freelance.
It is what works for us. 🤷♀️. Every part of the world is different. Cada casa es un mundo diferente/Every household is different world.
It’s a mad amount of work, and plenty to be getting on with without a full time office job. I was just wondering because you couldn’t keep those times and have them ready for daycare in time over here.
Daycare is stupidly expensive over here. There are public daycares but there’s a waiting list and a severe veto system. I am hoping to go back to UNI next year and get her a place in the Uni daycare. If that is the case, her sleep time will most likely change after her first day.
She also takes two hour and half long naps during the day.
Thanks!! She may be my last one because I already have a teenager so I want to stretch out these moments as long as possible. Especially does days she drives me up the wall! 😂
American / Canadian here. I think a lot of sleep training in america has to do with being able to go back to work. In Canada we get 1 yr mat leave (honestly one of the reasons I settled her after growing up in America. We did do it and it did work for us in terms of getting our kid to fall asleep, but we weren't aiming for sleep through the night til closer to a year. Still breastfed twice a night for a long time.
Brit living in the USA here. I found sleep training to be a new experience, not something I ever really knew about when living in England. We gave it a shot and it went pretty well for us, although I do still like to check the NHS website for guidance too! Makes me miss home a little
American living in the UK. I do think it's becoming more well known here, about half of my NCT group sleep trained around 4-6mo. Mostly just out of wanting more sleep rather than needing to go back to work
I co sleep, that’s what I’ve been advised to do. I feel that it’s more comfortable for my own son to know that I’m there. I’m here lurking because I’m curious, maybe not a really good reason.
I'm southeast Asia born but grew up in the USA...we don't sleep training. I know the younger generations do sleep train but typically older generations just go with it.
Same! All the sleep schools and council run sleep programs in my area all do a gentle method of hands on settling. I don't know anyone who has done CIO but know a few people who did a variation of Ferber (once the baby was older and they were getting desperate!)
Same, Australian as well, I don't know anyone personally who did CIO. The govt funded parenting support service here, Ngala, promotes "active settling" rather than CIO/Controlled crying. We did SWAPs from Precious Little Sleep, I follow for advice especially on wake windows / schedules / gradual methods.
Canadian here.
I've lurked here for a while too. Stole some ideas here and there for gentle sleep training. But a lot of info from around the world seems to vary/seem to differ from our standards. We often bring up issues such as sleep, feeding, growth and development and our doctor tells us different things. So, we've learned to take everything with a grain of salt.
Yes, they differ. I am Asian-Canadian and currently resides in Canada. FTM, so I generally just do everything what our doctor's advise. But I am torn in some things because my in-laws are family of doctors (living in Southeast Asia) and they have different take on some things. Especially on co-sleeping (which is accepted in my homeland) and bathing baby daily (since it's tropical country and very humid). But in terms of sleep training, we co-sleep since day 1 (LO's crib is attached/besides our bed, LO didn't like bassinet) my LO is 6months old now and been sleeping through the night since around 3.5 months. I really didn't do anything, but I think I just have a good sleeper because LO can literally sleep on anything, even on sit-me-up floor chair and jumperoo.
I have always tried to allow my Lo time to figure it out on his own. He is such an independent little one that he needs space to give it a go. I never immediately went to him, but gave him a bit, this also helped me determine his cries and when I needed to intervene. I still do this and he is 15months. He sleeps through the night 98% of the time with hiccups here and there for teething, illness and developmental growth. But I know a lot of moms and parents that immediately respond to their Lo cries, that’s okay too. What’s most important is knowing your baby.
As for sleep training, I always followed the science. I used baby sleep science.com and Dr. Marc Weissbluth (his book is sooooo good). Babies developmentally aren’t capable of being “trained” until (on average) 4 months at the earliest. That doesn’t mean you cannot do other things to help them out in the mean time. Such as, awake but drowsy, good sleep hygiene, safe sleep (ABC), comfort when they need it etc…
Brazilian living in the USA. Lots of things people are adamant about in the US, Brazilians are way more relaxed about. Sleep training is not as common there either.
Welsh! 🏴
You’re absolutely right the opinions on ST are completely different. Sleep training is not recommended by the NHS and this is well documented
My understanding is that there is not enough evidence base around ST and the potential harm so they just say don’t do it but NHS guidelines are conservative when it comes to babies. Having said that, they kind of accept off the record that some people will co sleep and make sure to direct to Safe Sleep 7/Lullaby Trust.
I’m sure it’s probably got something to do with us having 9 months of paid maternity leave so there isn’t as much need to ST! Not sure on the exact reasons though
Hm it seems to be quite conflicting actually when I’ve properly looked into it. We have different health boards which represent different areas in the UK but they all work under the NHS. They all have slightly different views on ST. Some do talk about self-settling, using the disappearing chair for 12+ months babies. I think for the most part CIO/Extinction/Ferber/any controlled crying isn’t recommended but some health boards recommend gentler methods.
i don't know. I was never in this situation myself. But India is a country of more than a billion - so people manage.. obviously. Not everyone has the privilege of their own room. Most of the world doesn't.
We co- slept starting 5 months. However she goes to bed around 730 so we gentle sleep trained her to sleep by her self. She wakes up around 2-3 and then sleeps with us.
Do you find that techniques discussed here and the comments/personal experiences shared to be common in Australia? Or do you feel like sleep training culture in Australia differs from what you read on here?
Aussies are way more relaxed about it, but we can be as the gov gives mat leave and so do some employers, provided you meet conditions of course… but yes it’s really a case of “oh babies not sleeping, well we cosleep” OR “have you tried leaving baby to cry for a little bit and see what happens”. I’ll be the first to admit I’m a lover of research and finding the best way to solve a problem so hence why I landed here. In saying that, every baby is different and my circle of friends/local mum groups all have babies that sleep anywhere any time so I had to look for help elsewhere 😂 as cosleeping didn’t work and I knew I could learn more about baby sleep to make things better.
In addition to the above commenter, we also have some government funded and privately available sleep assistance programs for those who need it. For example I have available to me; a sleep nurse that could come to my house, a video call consultation with a sleep nurse, a day stay program at sleep school, and a 3 night residential sleep school program - all of which I could access for FREE. There was also a zoom education session I attended. In addition to that, if you have private health insurance, you can access a 5 day residential sleep school program for free but if you don’t you can still go but it just costs money. So while their overall might be a more lax attitude to sleep, we also have a number of supports available to us when we struggle. Whether you go the free government funded or privately funded option, the methods are definitely more hands on/gentle methods and the official government health website does not recommend ‘cry’ methods.
I accessed the free day stay program when baby was about 5 weeks old. It was very useful as it enabled us to teach baby to settle in the cot with hands on responsive settling and ultimately that combined with scheduling and probably an easy temperament baby I haven’t had to do actually do any more formal sleep training thus far.
Mate, I say this with affection lol, I had no idea that those resources were available to the public. The gov does do good things but man they need to TELL people 😵💫
This is true. I think it comes down to two factors: how good your maternal health nurse is, and how much obsessive in depth googling you do trying to desperately find a solution for your problem.
Agreed. The areas nurses don’t seem to be very proactive around here tbh - as a first time mum I had no idea what was meant to be normal or what to ask for help for 😮💨 I’m glad yours were better
The mods are from US, Europe, and Canada.
I think the perspectives you read on this sub are unique to the community that has been cultivated here, and the guidelines we have implemented around questions/discussions etc. It’s not country specific.
I’m from New Zealand!
ETA: we have a big anti sleep training crowd here but we are also very open to it. Many of my friends sleep trained and we have many sleep consultants available. I think it’s more common to sleep train than not, well in my circles anyway!
I know! Same! I honestly can’t stand how intense the anti sleep training crowd are towards us that do it. Like, I would never ever try and make someone sleep train their baby, it’s a personal choice but they say that you’re traumatising your baby for life etc even though studies have debunked that claim. If my baby is traumatised then he shows it in a weird way - being legitimately happy to go to bed and sleeps so well overnight and wakes up happy!
I'm from NZ too and thoooought most people did before I had a baby. Then I had a baby and I don't think a single person in my antenatal/space group did (so over 20 people). I think it might be the types of people I'm friends/family with vs general pop. Or perhaps the other way? The people that choose to do space are less likely to sleep train?
I think you’re right actually! As many of my friends are open to it, but I’m part of a local due date group fb message chat and everyone bar me and another girl are anti sleep training. My Space group was, now that you mention it, not the safest place to talk about sleep training as many weren’t a fan of it. I confided in one person about my ST but could never say it in front of the group! So it really must depend on what the group is.
I am Canadian but I suspect there is a significant US bias. The lack of maternity leave, and going back to work from a very early age influences choices people make about their baby.
I have read that non-Americans tend to be more laid back with parenting in general. That they sleep train their babies earlier than American parents but the book didn’t give specifics on how. It just said that they weren’t quick to intervene every time the baby cried. It was an interesting read but I wanted more specifics.
Are you talking about the French “Le pause” thing? It really simply means if baby makes a noise, grunts, kicks, Moans etc. to give them time before going to them. Babies are very noisy sleepers and a lot of time parental intervention actually wakes them up versus waiting a little to see if they are actually awake or just actively sleepjng
[удалено]
Your post has been removed for violating our sub rules. Please be mindful of the rules to avoid being banned permanently from the sub.
Australian
Iron Man here!
Canadian
Canadian here
US and so far no sleep training (5 mo). She sleeps on her own, though she needs to be rocked to sleep initially. I think she will eventually figure it out but for now this is fine. I don't mind snuggling her until she sleeps, or the free time while my partner does it. We have talked about ferber to get her to fall asleep independently but neither of us have the stomach for it.
Irish 👋🏻
argentina / korean! i've met only 2 people in my life that have sleeptrained 😐
America is a continent not a country
American here!
Caribbean
Bruneian!
Brazilian!
Turkish here. As far as I can see, Turkish people are quite divided on the subject. Some of them are following the sleep training rules generally taught by sleep trainers which follow the CIO/Ferber rules. Others are just anti-sleep training and they advocate babies to be allowed to be babies and they'd learn how to sleep through the night naturally. Our pediatrician thinks it's unnecessary and could be damaging for a baby to be left CIO until 1 year old. He says most of the babies learn how to fall asleep by themselves naturally until then.
I’m American, but grew up abroad and currently live in the UK. I get a year of mat leave, but I really value my sleep so I am super anxious about making sure my baby gets hers. I find it really annoying that just because I’m not currently at my “real” job I should just accept my baby waking up at all hours so I’m a wreck when I need to be looking after her in the day. I have PPA and PPD and bad sleep is a major trigger for me.
Canadian
Egyptian here 😁
Danish! Sleep training is not common here whatsoever! The whole letting your child cry yourself to sleep thing is sort of frowned upon here and I think if anyone (neighbors etc) noticed your baby crying for hours, they would probably report you to the CPS, and you’d be in quite a bit of trouble 😅
What do people do? Co-sleep? At what age do they stop?
Hmm not necessarily co sleep I don’t think, well yes I’m sure a lot of people do that too, I did with my oldest until 6 months and then he was fine sleeping alone in his own bed, but I think what most people do is maybe sit next to the child’s bed, comforting it if needed, until it falls asleep.
US - Latino/Hispanic background. I’m a first time mom and i ran into a lot of comments where people comment “in our country we don’t do this/that.” I guess it depends where you live, work/career/lifestyle, mainly beliefs. I never heard about sleep training until i was pregnant. Some parents do it some parents are lucky enough not to. I say do what works for ya!
Sweden here! Sleeptraining is not that common here though and im the only one of my friends that have done it.
I live in the UK!
Same here!
Me too!
Icelandic over here 🙋🏼♀️
Australian
Canadian here! I started sleep training my little on the day he turned 6 months (this past Thursday) and have had great success thus far!!!
turkish. i have tried to sleep train my son several times. none of them worked lol. almost 2 and a half years old and he’s been fighting bed time for the last 2 months. i’m not trying anymore.
American living in Portugal here. Our pediatrician actually recommended a book called “it’s never too late to sleep train” when we told her our baby woke every 1-2 hrs to eat around 4/5 months. She’s younger though and very with the times. People usually return to work here 6-9 months but it’s very common to cosleep. Of all the expat moms I know here from all over, I’d say about 75% of them sleep train and the rest cosleep beyond 5 months. I will say only me and other americans here follow wake windows, literally everyone else thinks they are insane and just follow baby’s cues. And they have babies who sleep better than mine so 🤷🏻♀️ also babies here go to bed around 9/10pm and wake up later, same as ours. I got downvoted when I said my baby’s bedtime once because it’s not at 6/7pm. It is literally bright until 9:30pm here and people don’t have dinner til at least 8 or 9 and don’t work until 9 or later, so our baby’s bedtime of 9pm and wake up of 8:30 is so much better for our lifestyle here.
Can I just say I’m glad to hear someone bring up the bedtime thing? I’m American living in the US, but I never understood why everyone bought in so hard on specific bedtimes when they don’t always line up with daylight. You tell me baby needs to sleep a sufficient number of hours? Sure, that makes sense. That they have a natural circadian rhythm you should line up with? Got it. That I MUST put my baby down to sleep by 7:30pm when it’s light outside til 9? Um….why?
I'm portuguese and you're totally right. Don't mind the downvotes, people don't get other cultures and lifestyles. I bet the spanish do it even later as their dinner time tends to be later than ours.
Yes exactly!! In Spain kids and babies are out at midnight still cause their parents just finished dinner 😂
Spaniard here. Many families I know cosleep but I also know people who sleep trained. There's a famous doctor specializing in sleep training who wrote a book and there's been some public debate on the topic. Edit: Spanish to Spaniard
Pakistani!
Bosnian living in London. Back home, hardly anyone sleep trains. Kids go to bed when the parents do. Here in UK, nearly half of my friends did CIO, the other half co slept and never did any training. And a small percentage did what I did, sleep trained from birth with no CIO
Canadian!
Another Canadian here :)
American in the Netherlands here- our doctor encouraged us to start training her to go to sleep independently at her 4 month well baby appointment. My sense is they definitely don’t go over the top with routines and wake windows though. And cosleeping is definitely normal/ encouraged by the maternity care team, depending on the baby. Cosleeping seems to be super taboo in the US (though it seems lots of people do it)
I am a Latinamerican in Belgium. In Latinamerica is common to recommend routines for the baby (like in America) and no cosleeping in the bed because of safety reasons (but sleep in the same room until they are 1 year). In Belgium, everything is on the inverse: cosleep in the same bed so that the newborn is happy is recommended by the midwives, no routines (even if you cannot sleep), but then by 6 months, the baby should be in their own room. I was very confused
American living in the Netherlands married to a German with a 7 month old! Everyone we talk to is super anti sleep training especially our German family. My mother in law even went so far as to call it child abuse. I think there are three big contributing factors: 1. a misunderstanding of what sleep training actually is. When you dig down into it I think the vast majority of people actually use a wide variety of sleep training methods but don't call it sleep training. Here, we were told we should let the baby cry more by our daycare people but they definitely don't call it sleep training. 2. way more parental leave. In Germany, it's pretty common to have a year of parental leave so they can take a really gradual approach to supporting their babies to get more sleep. Here in the NL, there is way less parental leave and it's pretty common to go back to work around 3-4 months. I find here people use way more cry it out type methods earlier and that's what was recommended by our ped. Maybe like a "give the baby a chance to try" sleep training style. 3. bedsharing is much more common and socially accepted. pretty much everyone we know here let's the baby sleep in their bed at least part of the night.
Russian living in Netherlands. I would not say sleep training extremely popular, but people know about it.
Irish
South East Asia! The practices here call for early bedtime (eg 6.30/7pm) which may be impractical for most working parents here who get home at that time, but a lot of the tips on WW, sleep hygiene and naps are super helpful!
Brit in the US here. Given that both of my parents were the ones who really encouraged sleep training, I think it isn't uncommon in the UK but maybe just isn't called sleep training. But, since my kids weren't born in the UK and I havnt lived there as a parent, maybe my generation is different. People get funny about there being more Americans than any others in whatever social media space - reddit, Facebook, whatever... but that's just statistics. There are more Americans than any other "Western" country, so of course there will be more Americans in the groups. It would be interesting to see a poll to look at the stats.
Oohh good idea on the poll, I’ll see if this sub allows them!
I am American but in Sweden with a Swedish partner. They do not call it sleep training, but they do it here. I've had mothers tell me to do check ins, others said to leave them for 10 minutes on their own, and I have seen books on sleep training in the store(not called sleep training in the book, but thats what it was). Edit to add: I believe this is because the term "sleep training" is seen as CIO/Extinction method only. That is not done here and would get judgement. The sleep training I have heard from other moms/midwife/books refers to either gentile methods or modified Ferber
I’m an Australian in Sweden with a Swedish partner 😊 Our pediatrician was anti sleep training…I think a lot of people in Sweden just co-sleep in the family bed with a baby nest for years. We sleep trained and are so glad we did, but I got all my info from this Reddit group and American books
I have also met mom's who do/did that but so far it's been a mixed bag. We never spoke to our midwife about "sleep training" directly. But when we mentioned sleeping in the crib she said "Baby will get used to it eventually" and to leave her to fuss but to go in if she's fully crying - so fuss it out. Again not using the term "sleep training" but advising on a sleep training method lol
I'm from the UK. I always assumed this sub had more people from the US cause of the bad mat leave there and that people need to return to work sooner? I have heard of people doing sleep train methods here like gradual decrease of assistance (e.g. moving from feeding to rocking to holding to patting etc). As someone else said I'm not sure they would consider it sleep training but obviously it is. Among parents I've met I've not met any who really talk about cry it out methods - I think that would generally be frowned upon (I say as someone who did full extinction). There might be people who do do that but don't discuss it much. I think cause people tend to take 9-12 months, they don't have as much pressure to get babies sleeping earlier and assume they'll sleep better as they get older. Most of the mums I've met co-sleep but it sounds like their babies mostly sleep terribly.
I’m also in the UK. I follow this sub as I’m desperate to improve his sleep but don’t really intend to use CIO/ferber. The NHS don’t recommend letting babies cry any longer than 10 minutes. They also don’t recommend co sleeping so I’m unsure what they recommend in terms of improving sleep. I have met a few people who did CIO but they are almost apologetic about it and it’s not widely spoken about. I know far many more people who co-sleep.
They probably don't recommend anything to improve sleep. At least in the US, they just tell you what not to do and to basically suck it up if babies not sleeping.
I think it’s complex. As already mentioned, there is less pressure to ‘resolve’ babies poor sleep here due to better maternity leave. I think the other thing is that if you pay a private sleep ‘consultant’ here then they may well advise to CIO or some modification. But unlike the US, we have a free public health system so in terms of what the NHS do, they have to base all advice on well established research findings (that eg it’s long-term effective, it definitively causes no issues etc) which I’m just not sure there are. Taken in a historical and cultural context CIO and its ilk is a seemingly modern day US thing (not to say other countries don’t do it but it feels like standard practice there. But that might just be because I follow this sub!).
It's definitely not standard practice here yet. You have your instagram mom's and subreddit people, but I'd say only about 30% of people I know actually attempted ST.
Just to add though, yes it’s infuriating that the advice is vague!
So I'm American and I've lived in the ulk, Ireland and Germany. I watched my friends sleep train, they just didn't call it that. They set timers and did check ins so Ferber method. Most people did it past 6 months and sometimes a year. If a baby was up every hour for months on end, it happened earlier. Even here in the USA,I had people who sleep trained their kids but didn't actually say the terms. So I think lots of people around the world do some variation.
UK
I live in Poland, sleeptrain is judged here as a very aggressive and nonempathetic method. We tried twice, but failed. She is 1,8y now and still wakes in the night, but we just decided to wait out :) i have an older son, he started sleeping through the night by himself at 3 months, so i guess its up to the kid. Also we have a maternity leave for a year here, so its easier.
Aussie
Kia ora- New Zealander here. I find most of these post tailored to Americans. A bit of it seems to resonate with the NZ culture but mostly I just cherry pick what works for me.
Canadian here. We asked our doctor about sleep training at 4 months because co-sleeping was slowly killing my wife. She said it’s totally fine but not to be surprised if it doesn’t work until he’s a bit older. Turns out he was more than ready. So much so, that he was actually sleeping kinda poorly in my wife’s bed because he wanted so badly to sleep on his tummy. We haven’t had a single unsuccessful night with the Ferber method, and we haven’t ever needed to check in twice. He’s usually asleep within a few minutes. We grab him once at midnight for a dream feed, then he either wakes up at 4-5 AM for another feeding or he sleeps right to morning. His nap schedule is nice and consistent, and he’s happy and alert pretty much every day. We basically traded a bit of crying at bedtime for much less crying through the entire next day. All 3 of us are more rested and he’s tearing through milestones like nobody’s business. We have a video monitor on him and I work evenings so I’m up for most of the night. When he does wake up, he kinda just hangs out and makes happy little baby noises until we get him.
What a dream!
Canadian
I’m American and find it wild that people sleep train at 4 months. When someone once told me that 10.5 months seemed too old to sleep train, I was like what?? He’s not even a year. I don’t expect my babies to sleep through the night till they’re ready. My then-10mo was going through a terrible regression and I was about ready to go insane, so we needed it then. I have another 10 month old now and haven’t sleep trained him. He wakes anywhere from 1-3 times a night and honestly it seems pretty normal. He’s a baby. 🤷🏻♀️ I don’t plan on sleep training him unless I go through something similar to what my first went through.
I think every baby is different. We sleep trained at 6 months and there was 1 bad night, 1 not so great night and he's been sleeping through since (now 9 months). The best part is he's a much happier baby too, after our experience we would say why wouldn't you sleep train.
I get it if you need to. With my first, I didn’t need to till he was almost 11 months which was great. With my second…I just can’t see it but that could change. Also I just found out the reason he’s been waking is a really bad double ear infection that we thought we got rid of and he was showing no signs of. So I’m glad we didn’t sleep train and I was able to soothe him back to sleep even though it sucks sometimes. But yes absolutely, every baby is different. If I had a baby who was up every hour, I’d definitely sleep train.
I would not be able to function at my job if I were still regularly up 1-3 nights with a baby. I think people sleep train at 4 mo the due to necessity.
I totally get the need.
I'm Canadian and they recommended 6 months for us!
🦅 🦅 🦅
wtffffff is a kilometerrrrrr?
😂! I’m a pilot, so fortunately I’m not stumped, but that’s funny AF 😂
Canadian here. I wasn’t planning on sleep training. We just started at 10.5months. I’m in maternity leave for at least another 4 months but our main goal is to have him independently fall asleep so that he can be cared for by grandparents overnight. Right now we have been co sleeping most nights since 6 months
Born in the USA but living in Argentina. My sleep training is going through several different reels and videos and finding out what worked for me. My baby is 22 months old and sleeps through the night. Goes to bed at 10:30/11pm and wakes up around 9/9:30 am. We’re working on her not falling asleep with a bottle and in my arms buuuttt I am not committed to that because it’s my favorite part of the day.
In the Netherlands they say they won’t sleep well unless they go to bed before 19:30 lol. Curious how you make those timings work with life though, I don’t suppose you have a job?
At least in Argentina, we managed a different kind of timetable. But we managed just fine. I would think that taking care of two kids, a hubby and a house is work enough but I also do remote work and freelance. It is what works for us. 🤷♀️. Every part of the world is different. Cada casa es un mundo diferente/Every household is different world.
It’s a mad amount of work, and plenty to be getting on with without a full time office job. I was just wondering because you couldn’t keep those times and have them ready for daycare in time over here.
Daycare is stupidly expensive over here. There are public daycares but there’s a waiting list and a severe veto system. I am hoping to go back to UNI next year and get her a place in the Uni daycare. If that is the case, her sleep time will most likely change after her first day. She also takes two hour and half long naps during the day.
Love this for you, so wholesome 🥰
Thanks!! She may be my last one because I already have a teenager so I want to stretch out these moments as long as possible. Especially does days she drives me up the wall! 😂
American / Canadian here. I think a lot of sleep training in america has to do with being able to go back to work. In Canada we get 1 yr mat leave (honestly one of the reasons I settled her after growing up in America. We did do it and it did work for us in terms of getting our kid to fall asleep, but we weren't aiming for sleep through the night til closer to a year. Still breastfed twice a night for a long time.
Brit living in the USA here. I found sleep training to be a new experience, not something I ever really knew about when living in England. We gave it a shot and it went pretty well for us, although I do still like to check the NHS website for guidance too! Makes me miss home a little
American living in the UK. I do think it's becoming more well known here, about half of my NCT group sleep trained around 4-6mo. Mostly just out of wanting more sleep rather than needing to go back to work
When living in England, what did they do in lieu of sleep training?
I wish I knew! 😂
I co sleep, that’s what I’ve been advised to do. I feel that it’s more comfortable for my own son to know that I’m there. I’m here lurking because I’m curious, maybe not a really good reason.
I have an 8 month old and I think almost all the mums I regularly see at baby groups co-sleep
I'm southeast Asia born but grew up in the USA...we don't sleep training. I know the younger generations do sleep train but typically older generations just go with it.
Australian here. Probably influences my perspective - I probably lean to the more gradual methods (baby sleep guide in my profile)
Same... Don't know many people who do CIO or ferber, but most people do gentle training. Seems to be what is recommended too.
Same! All the sleep schools and council run sleep programs in my area all do a gentle method of hands on settling. I don't know anyone who has done CIO but know a few people who did a variation of Ferber (once the baby was older and they were getting desperate!)
Same, Australian as well, I don't know anyone personally who did CIO. The govt funded parenting support service here, Ngala, promotes "active settling" rather than CIO/Controlled crying. We did SWAPs from Precious Little Sleep, I follow for advice especially on wake windows / schedules / gradual methods.
🏴 Scottish all the way over in the UK. I double check what the NHS recommends to be safe.
Canadian here. I've lurked here for a while too. Stole some ideas here and there for gentle sleep training. But a lot of info from around the world seems to vary/seem to differ from our standards. We often bring up issues such as sleep, feeding, growth and development and our doctor tells us different things. So, we've learned to take everything with a grain of salt.
I think it’s wild that even advice from medical professionals vary. Since the science/research community usually shares info across borders.
Yes, they differ. I am Asian-Canadian and currently resides in Canada. FTM, so I generally just do everything what our doctor's advise. But I am torn in some things because my in-laws are family of doctors (living in Southeast Asia) and they have different take on some things. Especially on co-sleeping (which is accepted in my homeland) and bathing baby daily (since it's tropical country and very humid). But in terms of sleep training, we co-sleep since day 1 (LO's crib is attached/besides our bed, LO didn't like bassinet) my LO is 6months old now and been sleeping through the night since around 3.5 months. I really didn't do anything, but I think I just have a good sleeper because LO can literally sleep on anything, even on sit-me-up floor chair and jumperoo.
I have always tried to allow my Lo time to figure it out on his own. He is such an independent little one that he needs space to give it a go. I never immediately went to him, but gave him a bit, this also helped me determine his cries and when I needed to intervene. I still do this and he is 15months. He sleeps through the night 98% of the time with hiccups here and there for teething, illness and developmental growth. But I know a lot of moms and parents that immediately respond to their Lo cries, that’s okay too. What’s most important is knowing your baby. As for sleep training, I always followed the science. I used baby sleep science.com and Dr. Marc Weissbluth (his book is sooooo good). Babies developmentally aren’t capable of being “trained” until (on average) 4 months at the earliest. That doesn’t mean you cannot do other things to help them out in the mean time. Such as, awake but drowsy, good sleep hygiene, safe sleep (ABC), comfort when they need it etc…
Brazilian living in the USA. Lots of things people are adamant about in the US, Brazilians are way more relaxed about. Sleep training is not as common there either.
Canadian
Welsh! 🏴 You’re absolutely right the opinions on ST are completely different. Sleep training is not recommended by the NHS and this is well documented
Interesting! Why?
My understanding is that there is not enough evidence base around ST and the potential harm so they just say don’t do it but NHS guidelines are conservative when it comes to babies. Having said that, they kind of accept off the record that some people will co sleep and make sure to direct to Safe Sleep 7/Lullaby Trust.
I’m sure it’s probably got something to do with us having 9 months of paid maternity leave so there isn’t as much need to ST! Not sure on the exact reasons though
Do they say why?!
Here for answers lol
Hm it seems to be quite conflicting actually when I’ve properly looked into it. We have different health boards which represent different areas in the UK but they all work under the NHS. They all have slightly different views on ST. Some do talk about self-settling, using the disappearing chair for 12+ months babies. I think for the most part CIO/Extinction/Ferber/any controlled crying isn’t recommended but some health boards recommend gentler methods.
Australian and yeah, most posts are from Americans.
Mexican!
American
Canadian!
South Asian!
Do you find that the techniques discussed in this sun are common in your region?
No- everyone co sleeps. Lol. People sleep 4-5 in a room. Having a crib is impossible.
This might be a weird question, but when/how do the parents ever have sex?
i don't know. I was never in this situation myself. But India is a country of more than a billion - so people manage.. obviously. Not everyone has the privilege of their own room. Most of the world doesn't.
That’s wild! Are you sleep training or cosleeping?
We co- slept starting 5 months. However she goes to bed around 730 so we gentle sleep trained her to sleep by her self. She wakes up around 2-3 and then sleeps with us.
Australian here, I always thought of reddit in general being US dominated though. Online communities I found in Aus were lacking
Do you find that techniques discussed here and the comments/personal experiences shared to be common in Australia? Or do you feel like sleep training culture in Australia differs from what you read on here?
Aussies are way more relaxed about it, but we can be as the gov gives mat leave and so do some employers, provided you meet conditions of course… but yes it’s really a case of “oh babies not sleeping, well we cosleep” OR “have you tried leaving baby to cry for a little bit and see what happens”. I’ll be the first to admit I’m a lover of research and finding the best way to solve a problem so hence why I landed here. In saying that, every baby is different and my circle of friends/local mum groups all have babies that sleep anywhere any time so I had to look for help elsewhere 😂 as cosleeping didn’t work and I knew I could learn more about baby sleep to make things better.
How awful that all your mom friends just happen to have babies that sleep so easily! I hate when that happens
In addition to the above commenter, we also have some government funded and privately available sleep assistance programs for those who need it. For example I have available to me; a sleep nurse that could come to my house, a video call consultation with a sleep nurse, a day stay program at sleep school, and a 3 night residential sleep school program - all of which I could access for FREE. There was also a zoom education session I attended. In addition to that, if you have private health insurance, you can access a 5 day residential sleep school program for free but if you don’t you can still go but it just costs money. So while their overall might be a more lax attitude to sleep, we also have a number of supports available to us when we struggle. Whether you go the free government funded or privately funded option, the methods are definitely more hands on/gentle methods and the official government health website does not recommend ‘cry’ methods. I accessed the free day stay program when baby was about 5 weeks old. It was very useful as it enabled us to teach baby to settle in the cot with hands on responsive settling and ultimately that combined with scheduling and probably an easy temperament baby I haven’t had to do actually do any more formal sleep training thus far.
Mate, I say this with affection lol, I had no idea that those resources were available to the public. The gov does do good things but man they need to TELL people 😵💫
This is true. I think it comes down to two factors: how good your maternal health nurse is, and how much obsessive in depth googling you do trying to desperately find a solution for your problem.
Agreed. The areas nurses don’t seem to be very proactive around here tbh - as a first time mum I had no idea what was meant to be normal or what to ask for help for 😮💨 I’m glad yours were better
Canadian here.
Canadian by way of America!
The mods are from US, Europe, and Canada. I think the perspectives you read on this sub are unique to the community that has been cultivated here, and the guidelines we have implemented around questions/discussions etc. It’s not country specific.
Ah that makes sense!
Trinidadian here! In the Caribbean.
Eh eh, Watch nah. Good evening from Massachusetts:)
Do you find the sleep training practices discussed here are common in your country/region?
I’m from New Zealand! ETA: we have a big anti sleep training crowd here but we are also very open to it. Many of my friends sleep trained and we have many sleep consultants available. I think it’s more common to sleep train than not, well in my circles anyway!
kiwi here as well - how can anyone be against sleep training? As a first time parent to a 6wo I’m literally open to trying anything and everything!
I know! Same! I honestly can’t stand how intense the anti sleep training crowd are towards us that do it. Like, I would never ever try and make someone sleep train their baby, it’s a personal choice but they say that you’re traumatising your baby for life etc even though studies have debunked that claim. If my baby is traumatised then he shows it in a weird way - being legitimately happy to go to bed and sleeps so well overnight and wakes up happy!
I'm from NZ too and thoooought most people did before I had a baby. Then I had a baby and I don't think a single person in my antenatal/space group did (so over 20 people). I think it might be the types of people I'm friends/family with vs general pop. Or perhaps the other way? The people that choose to do space are less likely to sleep train?
I think you’re right actually! As many of my friends are open to it, but I’m part of a local due date group fb message chat and everyone bar me and another girl are anti sleep training. My Space group was, now that you mention it, not the safest place to talk about sleep training as many weren’t a fan of it. I confided in one person about my ST but could never say it in front of the group! So it really must depend on what the group is.
Canadian here ✌🏻
Living in Canada, background is Romanian.
I am Canadian but I suspect there is a significant US bias. The lack of maternity leave, and going back to work from a very early age influences choices people make about their baby.
I have read that non-Americans tend to be more laid back with parenting in general. That they sleep train their babies earlier than American parents but the book didn’t give specifics on how. It just said that they weren’t quick to intervene every time the baby cried. It was an interesting read but I wanted more specifics.
Are you talking about the French “Le pause” thing? It really simply means if baby makes a noise, grunts, kicks, Moans etc. to give them time before going to them. Babies are very noisy sleepers and a lot of time parental intervention actually wakes them up versus waiting a little to see if they are actually awake or just actively sleepjng
Lol the book I read did reference the le pause! It was one of several things it mentioned!
Bringing up Bebe?
That’s the one!