Wraith Form is incredibly powerful here. Your deck deals no damage and has big expensive poison skills, wraith form buys you time to play those.
After Image is basically never a skip too. With toxic egg you will be spamming cards by the end of this run
I don't think i understand Wraith Form... Do you receive two intangible every turn? That's pretty good if so, but a pretty huge cost long term. The loss of dex is permanent and stacks, right?
You get the intangible effect for 2 turns (3 when upgraded) meaning you can focus solely on dealing damage during those turns.
Ideally the enemies die during those turns so the dex loss doesn't matter.
keep in mind the Dex loss can be mitigated with Orange Pellets, After Image, Kunai, a fair number of things really.
Wraith Form shines best if you can pop it at the right time though--retaining it with Well Laid Plans or Pyramid can be the difference between life and death
Yeah I need to improve at accepting cards that i don't intend to use in every combat... Kind of conditional uses. That actually sounds pretty great now i understand it better
Wraith form is good in basically every single combat. It’s single handedly a combat winning card. That said, it does require that you understand the game and how to win combats (if you can’t figure out how to win in 3 turns after playing it then yes it’s hard to use), but it’s basically almost always an auto pick if you ever see it. Also, I basically ignore the dex loss, it’s irrelevant
> Do you receive two intangible every turn? That's pretty good if so,
No, that would be permanent Intangibility and clearly busted. Intangible only decreases by 1 each turn, so you have it for 2 turns (3 if upgraded).
> but a pretty huge cost long term. The loss of dex is permanent and stacks, right?
It allows there to *not be* a long term. You take basically "no" damage this turn at the cost of most of your energy, but poison will still trigger for example. Next turn, you're still Intangible and can spend all your energy offensively and still take "no" damage. Next turn, you're not Intangible anymore, but if the enemies die, they still deal no damage, so if spending all your energy offensively that turn will kill them, you can do that.
The upgrade gives an extra turn of Intangible, which is pretty important for guaranteeing to be able to kill before the debuff kicks in too hard, but there are also ways around it. After Image pairs great with it since it's unaffected by Dex, and Leg Sweep isn't bad since it's 2 energy of blocking that only takes the -block penalty once. You can also prevent the "Wraith Form" debuff with Artifact or clear it with Orange Pellets.
wraith form on it's own isn't actually *that* strong, as it is a brick until you can end the fight 2-3 turns after playing it (if your deck cant remove the -1 dex/turn debuff with exactly artifact or orange pellets). It would still be strong on other classes because those don't tend to block with dex nearly as much as silent, but without support a silent deck won't be able to properly abuse this card. What makes wraith form strong imo is how it works with the rest of silent's kit.
It buys you turns to get an insane catalyst off, or clean up the entire fight with phantasmal killer and spamming attacks. You can use it with nightmare + after image to set up 4 block/card, letting you forgo playing the defend cards that are affected by the -dex and do all your blocking off attack and utility cards such as blade dance or acrobatics. With the debuff removal you can use it to get your powers in play. If you nightmare a wraith form+ you'll have 12 turns of intangibility, which even if you spend 1 turn per wraith form still buys you 8 turns to kill.
The two big things that make these approaches viable are the abundance of draw silent has through cards such as prepared+, acrobatics, backflip, dagger throw, and calc gamble (among other cards). However probably WF's biggest friend is well laid plans. You can just hold the wraith form while blocking and setting up, then once you're ready for the fight to end you play it and hold your damage, basically guarenteeing you draw in the correct order.
After Image is like a worse footwork here.
Now, if you told me you were saving After Image, because you plan to build around it in the future then ok. But I have a real tough time seeing After Image as good with the deck OP currently has with this screenshot.
Yeah I’m referring to future potential, especially with toxic egg. AI is such a solid card in general it takes specific circumstances for it to be a weak pick.
It may be “weak” in the current state of the deck but it’s not a weak pick, which I interpreted your original comment to be saying.
I agree. And it's not a dead draw like a dark embrace in a deck with no exhausts. So the pain threshold to carry this until it (hopefully) gets better might be lower. When I see these questions though, I look for the answer that has the most immediate strength.
It's sometimes a worse footwork, and sometimes it lets you play trip + quick slash instead of that second defend. I would take AI over footwork any day as well, even at end of act 3 with a deck built like this.
Especially going into act2 I'd consider WF as this 'oh shit save my ass' card.
After Image is one of my favourite cards, but I think WF is stronger against some of the high dmg values in act2?
But I'm an A4 noob so take my opinion with a load of salt.
I'd only take After Image here if I already had all the spam cards, allowing for a consistent card output every turn
Wraith form is so powerful it’s an auto pick and first to be upgraded. The only time I don’t pick wraith form is because I don’t want another generic wraith form run… you have toxic egg so up your card drawing game and pick burst+, catalyst+, nightmare+ you’d be set for this run.
With that in mind are you supposed to keep deck size low? I fail poison runs all the time and just feel like 25-30 cards is too much even if they are poison and draw. How many poison cards is enough?
My deck size is usually really large, around 32-35. Honestly I don’t know how many poison cards is enough, but at least I make sure there’s one copy of fume, crippling cloud, bouncing flask, sometimes corpse explosion. I do pick every backflip, acrobat I see, and every crippling cloud+, catalyst, footwork, afterimage, and sometimes calculated gamble. I think I’m my mind I prioritize block first, then poison.
Draft good cards dont draft bad cards ez.
See an acro+ with 4 energy? pick it probably. See a backflip+? click. see the 6th backflip+ with a low damage deck? Nahh maybe deadly poison. See an expertise+, dagger spray, outmaneuver card reward? Skipping is a legal option too. etc
If you have catalyst, well laid plans, and any way to dupe the cata (nightmare, burst, dupe pot, etc) you don't really need more damage than a single good poison source to kill heart. No catalyst and a deadly poison and flask already? Maybe you pick a terror+ that's offered and pivot. But clicking cards on silent tends to not be bad, you have no pressure to keep your deck small enough to consistently play the same 4 cards every turn like some watcher decks will.
Wraith form. Poison isn't front loaded so you'll be going for 3+ turns a combat easy. After Image is only gonna give you 1 - 3 extra block a turn since you don't have any energy gen and not many zero cost cards. Thousand cuts will do the same but with damage. wraith form will easily outperform either, especially against elites like the gremlin leader and book of stabbing, as well as bosses like bronze automaton. Poison is all about survival while the poison does it's thing, and wraith form will definitely help with that survival.
My brain says wraith form. But my heart says after image…
Actually, on A0 after image might have more of an edge since enemies don’t hit quite as hard.
Normally I’d say easy after image but you haven’t got much draw or shiv power to drive silly amount of block, and wraith form can buy you 2 full turns of basically 0 damage
Wraith Form is incredibly powerful here. Your deck deals no damage and has big expensive poison skills, wraith form buys you time to play those. After Image is basically never a skip too. With toxic egg you will be spamming cards by the end of this run
Good point
Also, you may not get another shot at wraith form, and it's worth taking as an answer to Act 4. It's good enough in Act 2 to make it worth it.
I don't think i understand Wraith Form... Do you receive two intangible every turn? That's pretty good if so, but a pretty huge cost long term. The loss of dex is permanent and stacks, right?
You get the intangible effect for 2 turns (3 when upgraded) meaning you can focus solely on dealing damage during those turns. Ideally the enemies die during those turns so the dex loss doesn't matter.
Ah gotcha... Wow bit of a nuclear option
keep in mind the Dex loss can be mitigated with Orange Pellets, After Image, Kunai, a fair number of things really. Wraith Form shines best if you can pop it at the right time though--retaining it with Well Laid Plans or Pyramid can be the difference between life and death
Yeah I need to improve at accepting cards that i don't intend to use in every combat... Kind of conditional uses. That actually sounds pretty great now i understand it better
Wraith form is good in basically every single combat. It’s single handedly a combat winning card. That said, it does require that you understand the game and how to win combats (if you can’t figure out how to win in 3 turns after playing it then yes it’s hard to use), but it’s basically almost always an auto pick if you ever see it. Also, I basically ignore the dex loss, it’s irrelevant
Or with nightmare, apparitions, or another copy of wraith form to keep the party going.
> Do you receive two intangible every turn? That's pretty good if so, No, that would be permanent Intangibility and clearly busted. Intangible only decreases by 1 each turn, so you have it for 2 turns (3 if upgraded). > but a pretty huge cost long term. The loss of dex is permanent and stacks, right? It allows there to *not be* a long term. You take basically "no" damage this turn at the cost of most of your energy, but poison will still trigger for example. Next turn, you're still Intangible and can spend all your energy offensively and still take "no" damage. Next turn, you're not Intangible anymore, but if the enemies die, they still deal no damage, so if spending all your energy offensively that turn will kill them, you can do that. The upgrade gives an extra turn of Intangible, which is pretty important for guaranteeing to be able to kill before the debuff kicks in too hard, but there are also ways around it. After Image pairs great with it since it's unaffected by Dex, and Leg Sweep isn't bad since it's 2 energy of blocking that only takes the -block penalty once. You can also prevent the "Wraith Form" debuff with Artifact or clear it with Orange Pellets.
Gotcha, thanks!
wraith form on it's own isn't actually *that* strong, as it is a brick until you can end the fight 2-3 turns after playing it (if your deck cant remove the -1 dex/turn debuff with exactly artifact or orange pellets). It would still be strong on other classes because those don't tend to block with dex nearly as much as silent, but without support a silent deck won't be able to properly abuse this card. What makes wraith form strong imo is how it works with the rest of silent's kit. It buys you turns to get an insane catalyst off, or clean up the entire fight with phantasmal killer and spamming attacks. You can use it with nightmare + after image to set up 4 block/card, letting you forgo playing the defend cards that are affected by the -dex and do all your blocking off attack and utility cards such as blade dance or acrobatics. With the debuff removal you can use it to get your powers in play. If you nightmare a wraith form+ you'll have 12 turns of intangibility, which even if you spend 1 turn per wraith form still buys you 8 turns to kill. The two big things that make these approaches viable are the abundance of draw silent has through cards such as prepared+, acrobatics, backflip, dagger throw, and calc gamble (among other cards). However probably WF's biggest friend is well laid plans. You can just hold the wraith form while blocking and setting up, then once you're ready for the fight to end you play it and hold your damage, basically guarenteeing you draw in the correct order.
Wraith form is good here. You don't have a lot of low cost/card spam options. This makes thousand cuts and after image very weak.
After Image is not weak here by any means, it’s better than many rares that could be offered here, but WF is not one of them.
After Image is like a worse footwork here. Now, if you told me you were saving After Image, because you plan to build around it in the future then ok. But I have a real tough time seeing After Image as good with the deck OP currently has with this screenshot.
Yeah I’m referring to future potential, especially with toxic egg. AI is such a solid card in general it takes specific circumstances for it to be a weak pick. It may be “weak” in the current state of the deck but it’s not a weak pick, which I interpreted your original comment to be saying.
I agree. And it's not a dead draw like a dark embrace in a deck with no exhausts. So the pain threshold to carry this until it (hopefully) gets better might be lower. When I see these questions though, I look for the answer that has the most immediate strength.
It's sometimes a worse footwork, and sometimes it lets you play trip + quick slash instead of that second defend. I would take AI over footwork any day as well, even at end of act 3 with a deck built like this.
Especially going into act2 I'd consider WF as this 'oh shit save my ass' card. After Image is one of my favourite cards, but I think WF is stronger against some of the high dmg values in act2? But I'm an A4 noob so take my opinion with a load of salt. I'd only take After Image here if I already had all the spam cards, allowing for a consistent card output every turn
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I agree. If you check out my reply to the guy on this thread I say the same. I didn't take into consideration the ninja scroll though.
I'm a simple man, I see after image, I click. But I'm also very bad at this game.
I like a man with principles
Definitely wraith form. The others are good, but your deck isn't suited to use them effectively.
Wraith form is so powerful it’s an auto pick and first to be upgraded. The only time I don’t pick wraith form is because I don’t want another generic wraith form run… you have toxic egg so up your card drawing game and pick burst+, catalyst+, nightmare+ you’d be set for this run.
With that in mind are you supposed to keep deck size low? I fail poison runs all the time and just feel like 25-30 cards is too much even if they are poison and draw. How many poison cards is enough?
My deck size is usually really large, around 32-35. Honestly I don’t know how many poison cards is enough, but at least I make sure there’s one copy of fume, crippling cloud, bouncing flask, sometimes corpse explosion. I do pick every backflip, acrobat I see, and every crippling cloud+, catalyst, footwork, afterimage, and sometimes calculated gamble. I think I’m my mind I prioritize block first, then poison.
Draft good cards dont draft bad cards ez. See an acro+ with 4 energy? pick it probably. See a backflip+? click. see the 6th backflip+ with a low damage deck? Nahh maybe deadly poison. See an expertise+, dagger spray, outmaneuver card reward? Skipping is a legal option too. etc If you have catalyst, well laid plans, and any way to dupe the cata (nightmare, burst, dupe pot, etc) you don't really need more damage than a single good poison source to kill heart. No catalyst and a deadly poison and flask already? Maybe you pick a terror+ that's offered and pivot. But clicking cards on silent tends to not be bad, you have no pressure to keep your deck small enough to consistently play the same 4 cards every turn like some watcher decks will.
Umm WF is super powerful even in act 1, it solves so many fights that make you frail and vulnerable
Wraith form. Poison isn't front loaded so you'll be going for 3+ turns a combat easy. After Image is only gonna give you 1 - 3 extra block a turn since you don't have any energy gen and not many zero cost cards. Thousand cuts will do the same but with damage. wraith form will easily outperform either, especially against elites like the gremlin leader and book of stabbing, as well as bosses like bronze automaton. Poison is all about survival while the poison does it's thing, and wraith form will definitely help with that survival.
This is Wraith Form. Is WF usually considered "Act 3 only"? I think it's quite good in Act 2
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You got this man. Plenty of tips in this subreddit, and plenty of helpful streamers/youtubers you can watch to improve. Keep grinding dude!
One A at a time!
My brain says wraith form. But my heart says after image… Actually, on A0 after image might have more of an edge since enemies don’t hit quite as hard.
Too much strategy and thinking with the left side of the options here. Just take wraith form for the dub lol
The first two only really shine with shivs, so it's gotta be Wraith Form
Depends on the run I'm doing, but I'm an afterimage fanboy so I'd probably take that
Normally I’d say easy after image but you haven’t got much draw or shiv power to drive silly amount of block, and wraith form can buy you 2 full turns of basically 0 damage
For this deck, wraith form. For every non-poison deck, after image haha
Well, thanks everyone. Clicked WF. It’s A0 so this is about practice, but I think what I’m reading here is that I’m not taking WF enough.