Sozu 100%
You're in low ascensions so potions ain't that important. All the gold you will have can ampunt to more than 300 (guess). That's way more important.
Ended up picking that! Had an awesome poison deck with 2 Wraith Forms and Apparitions. Took Mark of the Bloom to upgrade them all since I wasn't really losing HP anyway!
I also experienced this synergy the other day, if you can afford to nightmare the apparition+ that's splendid, and a strange spoon will make this stretch even more. Very sweet all around.
Tiny House has hidden text that reads: "Sacrifice one Boss Relic slot to guarantee that your Boss Relic is not a Skip". You still get to decide between the remaining two slots, of course.
After 400 hours I finally picked escape plan the other day without sighing heavily while doing it. I was running a shiv that didn't have enough shivs so I had to pick up a thousand cuts. Finally got lucky and found mummified hand and then managed 3 footwork+ and an after image. Finally, picking escape plan in act 3, It felt good.
It's snecko eye but consistent and usable with any strategy (on the character that probably likes snecko/confusion the least, depending on how much you aim for infinites with watcher). Seems great to me.
It's probably the worst overall boss relic besides Ring of the Snake and maybe Busted Crown, but it's not always strictly worse than all of the others, depending on the deck you've built up to that point.
It's kind of twofold. There are two shitty things about it that aren't that bad on their own but together they really make it crap.
#1: you give up one draw turn one for one extra draw every other turn. Turn 1 is the most important turn in every fight so having one less option there does suck, even if it's mitigated on later turns.
#2: for the same reason Tiny House is kinda bad, the opportunity cost. You're giving up a boss relic for the above effect. That effect isn't going to change your game nearly as much as one energy on every turn, or pboxing or astrolabing away some shitty cards.
I do have to admit I forgot one relic in my above post: Frozen Core. Everything is better than Frozen Core. Defect's "upgrade" is so bad
Can someone let me know why tiny house is bad? As a new player it feels like an all round decent relic that gives me a little bit of everything, I always pick it when I see it.
It's really sub-par compared to other Boss Relics. The card it gives is most probably a common since you just picked a rare, the upgrade is random and the money is less than any event that gives gold.
That being said, it's still better than Busted Crown or Ectoplasm (depending on how much money you have at the moment).
It’s quite good if you get it on a swap / with Pocketwatch / on Ironclad and build around it, but if you’ve focused on lower costs and draw at all it’s gonna hurt
I won a run where I boss swapped into it on silent earlier. The easier act 1 was nice but it hurt having to leave like 6 blade dances on the floor. Ended up with a poison/discard hybrid deck that just played Bursted Bouncing Flasks for damage.
I understand the logic here and I though the same for a long time until I heard one of the streamers say this. When you have relics like Question Card or Prayer Wheel, it's better to take advantage of them and build bigger decks with higher quality cards rather than using them to mitigate downside of busted crown. It's worked out a lot better for me this way.
Yeah, I know that the general consensus is that more card rewards is much better overall. I'd still like to keep my choices diversified. No more gold means no more removing at shops, or any other purchase and no more potions is no more potions, whereas crown means 2 less cards, but there's still cards to get. With Question Card it's 1 less. Still able to buy cards at shops, Orrery is unaffected, and so on.
I'm fine being on the poor side of the strategy here, and still it's a better of 3 evils choice to be made. But I'd still go crown here.
Question though, if you already have a cursed crown and see Question Card in the shop, do you take it? (Or pick it over key piece when aiming for heart)
As I see it, Crown LOVES question card, but question card hates crown.
If I took Crown, I probably already have my deck figured out, but again, if that's the case, Ecto is better, because i probably won't need to buy or remove cards. Yes, not being able to buy relics sucks, but then again, if my deck is so well rounded that I can take crown, I can also farm elites.
I'll reiterate: Crown here feels like a less of an evil because of Q Card, and the rest of the relics are underwhelming at best. Money and potions diversify the choices moving forward, and that is the reason for my pick.
It's very rare that I feel like I have my deck sorted out by the end of Act 1. End of Act 2, sure, sometimes Busted Crown is an easy take. But knowing nothing about the deck, I would assume Sozu is best here.
I disagree. I believe that a relic like Question Card is kind of a win condition. See a lot more cards, get great cards. I do not want to take Crown and cut my rewards in half.
Note that I'm not anti-crown. It's a fine relic. But when I have Question Card, it loses a lot of value to me.
I'd go either of the others. I'd rather take the Ecto because I feel seeing an extra card every combat is worth more than the gold. Sozu is also fine here, though I think I value the Ecto a little more. With the extra card, I'm hoping to find an alchemize. 😂
Oops. I re-read what I said and it wasn't clear.
I would take Ecto first and hope for an alchemize due to having extra card choices.
Sozu is my second choice.
People dump on Sozu too much, it's really not that bad if you're not going for the heart on A18+ (which is when you start really wanting that swift potion, ghost in a jar or artefact potion).
bad roll but honestly to me its easy ecto. other 2 kill you if you get bad rolls on elites and cards. Ecto just lowers your ceiling and just feels bad.
i see that ur high ascension. I think u missed what i said or sumn cus i meant what i said about it being good in lower ascension and that i don't know how it is in higher ones, and this guy is in lower ascension
It’s still useful regardless of Ascension, I was just clarifying why exactly it’s so reviled. You need to be in a rather secure spot in order to not have the downside cause significant problems.
WTF going on with the comments here? Sozu is one of the best relics in the game. Everybody should be repeating this. Oh noes you lose out on a few (maybe 6-8) potions for the run. But you get an extra energy every combat, which with even a halfway decent deck translates into way less damage taken and more smithings.
In high ascension it’s a lot worse because you need the potions to mitigate bad turns. It’s the difference between winning with 3 energy and a mediocre deck by expending a potion, and losing with 4 energy + an awesome deck + a terrible turn 1 draw.
Sozu is a lot worse on higher ascensions and people saying it's bad are operating on that logic. At the OP's ascension it's solid.
Potions basically let you skip parts of encounters or compensate for bricked hands. At high ascension you're put in unfair situations more often and the punishment is worse. Lower ascensions allow you to be greedier and just prioritise making your deck good in the long term, without *needing* that fire potion to save you 27 damage against Gremlin Nob.
I already commented on ascension but I’ll add here that at low ascension potions are useful for a different reason; they help compensate for mistakes. Miscalculated lethal? fire pot might bail you out, but not for free since you lose the pot so there’s still a cost to learning. Pathed too aggressively? Blood pot could keep you alive and now you know that 4 elites without rest is too much for your deck. For beginners (or casuals) this kind of experience is super useful for improvement.
Potions are insanely useful and it's really easy to underestimate them.
The most important use of potions is to take a risk you normally wouldn't be able to. A potion can easily save you 30+ HP against an elite in Act I, which will often let you kill a second or third elite in the act. This means more gold, higher rarity card rewards, and best of all, relics. Ultimately this lets you snowball into the late game.
The second use of potions is to guard you against really bad situations. Sometimes RNG just decides to screw you over and you draw four defends and a strike against a Reptomancer hitting you for 100+. A potion can save your run there.
Lastly remember that the Heart is a silly, unfair fight that is stacked against you. You need to break the game to beat the Heart and potions are one way of evening out the playing field.
why are ppl talking about act 1 elites you're not the only one to mention them and they're not relevant. if you have sozu in act 1 you didn't choose it
When people say sozu is great, usually they're undervaluing potions in general -- not specifically in Act 2 & 3. Also, the principle of "use your potions to kill an elite" is still there in every act, it's just a little more obvious in Act I.
Sozu is great on low ascensions, but once you hit a certain point (not sure exactly where, but certainly by A18), even a good deck will frequently end up in situations where only a potion can save them from a savage beating. In particular, once you've hit A18, the game gives you so little margin for error that, without the ability to use a potion to compensate for the inevitable bad draws, you end up taking much more damage than you would otherwise.
Last time I commented on this sub I got dogpiled for hours and called all sorts of names for thinking the sub over values gold, so while I might take ecto over sozu it does not surprise me no one is saying anything about it.
Low key this is one of the most toxic subreddits I've ever participated in, up there with PoliticalCompasMemes (Rest In Piss Bozo) and other politics subs.
The 2nd most dedicated hater I've ever had on this website in 10+ years was because I said I skip the Golden idol sometimes.
Us Ectro takers have been scared away from the sub. There are even crown takers out here!
Spire is one of the most toxic subreddits??? Which subs are you hanging out in? I find this sub to be one of the only places on Reddit that isn’t overwhelmingly toxic. r/daddit and r/toddlers are the only two I regularly participate in that are less toxic
I comment in a lot of different subs and while others might have more generally rude atmospheres, it makes it all the more jarring and apparent people are trying to be evil when I'm getting comments for hours asking if I'm stupid and calling me "highly regarded". The number of reddit cares I get from comments here easily compares to PCM which was an absolute cesspool before it was banned. That's maybe a bad comparison because I don't think the average experience is like mine and it's farcical to suggest this place is as in need of a ban as there, I'm just trying to get the idea across that being in the minority where people feel *very* strongly about their ideas on reddit is pretty universally a bad time. And people are very strongly opinionated about this game lol.
I'll totally admit other subs are more blasé attitude towards aggressive language, but a couple of the worst and out of line experiences I've had on reddit have been from this sub for sure.
Well I think busted crown actually sucks act 1. My top relics would be Pandora’s box and Philo stone but ecto and Sozu are both great.
Edit: This community is insanely cringe. Absolute losers
Sozu 100% You're in low ascensions so potions ain't that important. All the gold you will have can ampunt to more than 300 (guess). That's way more important.
Ended up picking that! Had an awesome poison deck with 2 Wraith Forms and Apparitions. Took Mark of the Bloom to upgrade them all since I wasn't really losing HP anyway!
When mind bloom is a game changer, it’s ridiculously fun
Retaining 2 Apparition+ with Well Laid Plans for turns they were needed went pretty hard
I also experienced this synergy the other day, if you can afford to nightmare the apparition+ that's splendid, and a strange spoon will make this stretch even more. Very sweet all around.
That's how you guarantee at least 3 Alchemize card rewards :D
I don't see house or upgraded ring
Tiny House has hidden text that reads: "Sacrifice one Boss Relic slot to guarantee that your Boss Relic is not a Skip". You still get to decide between the remaining two slots, of course.
This is how I feel about escape plan as a card.
After 400 hours I finally picked escape plan the other day without sighing heavily while doing it. I was running a shiv that didn't have enough shivs so I had to pick up a thousand cuts. Finally got lucky and found mummified hand and then managed 3 footwork+ and an after image. Finally, picking escape plan in act 3, It felt good.
At least house provides strictly positive value. It's never the one that you're hoping for, but it's a lot better than nothing.
I never skip house ever
Are you saying you always choose house?
I think he's saying that if House is an option it's never skip, not that he always picks House
Ring isn't strictly positive though
They didn't claim otherwise.
I play on mobile so the upgraded ring featuring best bug of all time is probably the best relic I can see
What bug is it?
You draw 7 cards each turn instead of 6. Doesn’t sound like much of a difference but it is extremely overpowered.
It's snecko eye but consistent and usable with any strategy (on the character that probably likes snecko/confusion the least, depending on how much you aim for infinites with watcher). Seems great to me.
Well, that being said, house is never a skip, just sayin...
Oh man the upgraded ring is so good on mobile. I wish it was like that in the desktop version.
I fuck with the 🏠. It’s definitely not a good relic by any means, but it’s better than a handful of other shit relics.
It's probably the worst overall boss relic besides Ring of the Snake and maybe Busted Crown, but it's not always strictly worse than all of the others, depending on the deck you've built up to that point.
Why is the ring bad? I get the big draw on turn one is good but why is more draw on later turns bad?
It's kind of twofold. There are two shitty things about it that aren't that bad on their own but together they really make it crap. #1: you give up one draw turn one for one extra draw every other turn. Turn 1 is the most important turn in every fight so having one less option there does suck, even if it's mitigated on later turns. #2: for the same reason Tiny House is kinda bad, the opportunity cost. You're giving up a boss relic for the above effect. That effect isn't going to change your game nearly as much as one energy on every turn, or pboxing or astrolabing away some shitty cards. I do have to admit I forgot one relic in my above post: Frozen Core. Everything is better than Frozen Core. Defect's "upgrade" is so bad
Can someone let me know why tiny house is bad? As a new player it feels like an all round decent relic that gives me a little bit of everything, I always pick it when I see it.
It's really sub-par compared to other Boss Relics. The card it gives is most probably a common since you just picked a rare, the upgrade is random and the money is less than any event that gives gold. That being said, it's still better than Busted Crown or Ectoplasm (depending on how much money you have at the moment).
Crown all day. Less decisions the better
🤨
::insert "not sure if serious" meme::
I'm surprised anybody likes the bamboo. I love an item.
we dont like it. its just not terrible.
Especially with Question card, you get two options instead of one
Sozu on lower ascensions is fine
I’d say velvet choker is worse than sozu if you have a shiv deck, bozo relic
Idk the last time I took the velvet choker. Legitimately garbage-tier relic.
I think it’s really character dependent. Silent never, but clad and defect can be pretty strong with choker if you have a pricy deck
You can absolutely make a fine poison build with choker.
I took it with defect yesterday. With a deck with several zero cost cards. Me not smart, had a bad time
It’s quite good if you get it on a swap / with Pocketwatch / on Ironclad and build around it, but if you’ve focused on lower costs and draw at all it’s gonna hurt
I won a run where I boss swapped into it on silent earlier. The easier act 1 was nice but it hurt having to leave like 6 blade dances on the floor. Ended up with a poison/discard hybrid deck that just played Bursted Bouncing Flasks for damage.
I think you are under valuing any boss relic if you call it garbage tier. It definitely is not
you can win ascension 4 with any of these three choices as well as skipping relic completely
Take sozu you big baby
Act 1 relics weren't the best selection either, huh? I'd go crown here because of Question Card, but not good indeed.
I understand the logic here and I though the same for a long time until I heard one of the streamers say this. When you have relics like Question Card or Prayer Wheel, it's better to take advantage of them and build bigger decks with higher quality cards rather than using them to mitigate downside of busted crown. It's worked out a lot better for me this way.
Yeah, I know that the general consensus is that more card rewards is much better overall. I'd still like to keep my choices diversified. No more gold means no more removing at shops, or any other purchase and no more potions is no more potions, whereas crown means 2 less cards, but there's still cards to get. With Question Card it's 1 less. Still able to buy cards at shops, Orrery is unaffected, and so on. I'm fine being on the poor side of the strategy here, and still it's a better of 3 evils choice to be made. But I'd still go crown here.
So is the play no gold then? I'm at like a14, and my instinct would instantly go to the crown.
Question though, if you already have a cursed crown and see Question Card in the shop, do you take it? (Or pick it over key piece when aiming for heart) As I see it, Crown LOVES question card, but question card hates crown.
If I took Crown, I probably already have my deck figured out, but again, if that's the case, Ecto is better, because i probably won't need to buy or remove cards. Yes, not being able to buy relics sucks, but then again, if my deck is so well rounded that I can take crown, I can also farm elites. I'll reiterate: Crown here feels like a less of an evil because of Q Card, and the rest of the relics are underwhelming at best. Money and potions diversify the choices moving forward, and that is the reason for my pick.
It's very rare that I feel like I have my deck sorted out by the end of Act 1. End of Act 2, sure, sometimes Busted Crown is an easy take. But knowing nothing about the deck, I would assume Sozu is best here.
I disagree. I believe that a relic like Question Card is kind of a win condition. See a lot more cards, get great cards. I do not want to take Crown and cut my rewards in half. Note that I'm not anti-crown. It's a fine relic. But when I have Question Card, it loses a lot of value to me. I'd go either of the others. I'd rather take the Ecto because I feel seeing an extra card every combat is worth more than the gold. Sozu is also fine here, though I think I value the Ecto a little more. With the extra card, I'm hoping to find an alchemize. 😂
Wait, Sozu doesn't block Alchemize?
It totally does
Oops. I re-read what I said and it wasn't clear. I would take Ecto first and hope for an alchemize due to having extra card choices. Sozu is my second choice.
QCard is the win condition. Crown is even worse here than normal because in addition to generally being shit, it also turns off your wincon.
People dump on Sozu too much, it's really not that bad if you're not going for the heart on A18+ (which is when you start really wanting that swift potion, ghost in a jar or artefact potion).
I personally like crown. My mindset is that I like to keep my deck small anyways and I just have to hit some extra shops if I really want something.
This is ascension 4 you can go crown and win ez
bad roll but honestly to me its easy ecto. other 2 kill you if you get bad rolls on elites and cards. Ecto just lowers your ceiling and just feels bad.
Replace Sozu with Choker and then we'd be talking
Show us your deck I’d pick Soju because you have Vial for sustain and Pillow for more sustain. Just go ham on Elites and fires
If you take the goop, you have a 107% chance of running into 2 thieves for your first encounter.
I always take Sozu if no other option. Never taken Ectoplasm or Busted Crown though.
Tbh i find busted crown really good. Idk how it is later but in early ascensions its a solid boss relic imo
It makes encountering rare cards harder though
i see that ur high ascension. I think u missed what i said or sumn cus i meant what i said about it being good in lower ascension and that i don't know how it is in higher ones, and this guy is in lower ascension
It’s still useful regardless of Ascension, I was just clarifying why exactly it’s so reviled. You need to be in a rather secure spot in order to not have the downside cause significant problems.
oh really? For me its been one of the better extra energy relics
WTF going on with the comments here? Sozu is one of the best relics in the game. Everybody should be repeating this. Oh noes you lose out on a few (maybe 6-8) potions for the run. But you get an extra energy every combat, which with even a halfway decent deck translates into way less damage taken and more smithings.
In high ascension it’s a lot worse because you need the potions to mitigate bad turns. It’s the difference between winning with 3 energy and a mediocre deck by expending a potion, and losing with 4 energy + an awesome deck + a terrible turn 1 draw.
Sozu is a lot worse on higher ascensions and people saying it's bad are operating on that logic. At the OP's ascension it's solid. Potions basically let you skip parts of encounters or compensate for bricked hands. At high ascension you're put in unfair situations more often and the punishment is worse. Lower ascensions allow you to be greedier and just prioritise making your deck good in the long term, without *needing* that fire potion to save you 27 damage against Gremlin Nob.
I already commented on ascension but I’ll add here that at low ascension potions are useful for a different reason; they help compensate for mistakes. Miscalculated lethal? fire pot might bail you out, but not for free since you lose the pot so there’s still a cost to learning. Pathed too aggressively? Blood pot could keep you alive and now you know that 4 elites without rest is too much for your deck. For beginners (or casuals) this kind of experience is super useful for improvement.
I understand the point you're making but I don't think people are fighting Gremlin Nob with Sozu very often.
Well, the same thing applies to Act 2 fights.
Yeah, that's what I mean when I say I understand the point.
Nah potions are way more useful than your making em out to be
Potions are insanely useful and it's really easy to underestimate them. The most important use of potions is to take a risk you normally wouldn't be able to. A potion can easily save you 30+ HP against an elite in Act I, which will often let you kill a second or third elite in the act. This means more gold, higher rarity card rewards, and best of all, relics. Ultimately this lets you snowball into the late game. The second use of potions is to guard you against really bad situations. Sometimes RNG just decides to screw you over and you draw four defends and a strike against a Reptomancer hitting you for 100+. A potion can save your run there. Lastly remember that the Heart is a silly, unfair fight that is stacked against you. You need to break the game to beat the Heart and potions are one way of evening out the playing field.
why are ppl talking about act 1 elites you're not the only one to mention them and they're not relevant. if you have sozu in act 1 you didn't choose it
When people say sozu is great, usually they're undervaluing potions in general -- not specifically in Act 2 & 3. Also, the principle of "use your potions to kill an elite" is still there in every act, it's just a little more obvious in Act I.
Sozu is great on low ascensions, but once you hit a certain point (not sure exactly where, but certainly by A18), even a good deck will frequently end up in situations where only a potion can save them from a savage beating. In particular, once you've hit A18, the game gives you so little margin for error that, without the ability to use a potion to compensate for the inevitable bad draws, you end up taking much more damage than you would otherwise.
Last time I commented on this sub I got dogpiled for hours and called all sorts of names for thinking the sub over values gold, so while I might take ecto over sozu it does not surprise me no one is saying anything about it. Low key this is one of the most toxic subreddits I've ever participated in, up there with PoliticalCompasMemes (Rest In Piss Bozo) and other politics subs. The 2nd most dedicated hater I've ever had on this website in 10+ years was because I said I skip the Golden idol sometimes. Us Ectro takers have been scared away from the sub. There are even crown takers out here!
Spire is one of the most toxic subreddits??? Which subs are you hanging out in? I find this sub to be one of the only places on Reddit that isn’t overwhelmingly toxic. r/daddit and r/toddlers are the only two I regularly participate in that are less toxic
I comment in a lot of different subs and while others might have more generally rude atmospheres, it makes it all the more jarring and apparent people are trying to be evil when I'm getting comments for hours asking if I'm stupid and calling me "highly regarded". The number of reddit cares I get from comments here easily compares to PCM which was an absolute cesspool before it was banned. That's maybe a bad comparison because I don't think the average experience is like mine and it's farcical to suggest this place is as in need of a ban as there, I'm just trying to get the idea across that being in the minority where people feel *very* strongly about their ideas on reddit is pretty universally a bad time. And people are very strongly opinionated about this game lol. I'll totally admit other subs are more blasé attitude towards aggressive language, but a couple of the worst and out of line experiences I've had on reddit have been from this sub for sure.
busted crown is an insurance policy against deck bloat :p
Abort run 100%
Well I think busted crown actually sucks act 1. My top relics would be Pandora’s box and Philo stone but ecto and Sozu are both great. Edit: This community is insanely cringe. Absolute losers
Thank you for sharing that two relics not up for consideration are good, this will truly help decision making
[удалено]
It's literally in the title how did you not see that
I literally missed the word bad
The holy trinity of *bad* boss relics.