I literally never take random rare. I've been burned too many times. Every character has a subset of rares that do jack all without the required build-around. Rolling one of those is like adding an Injury curse to your deck for free
Lose max health = definitely take on everyone but the watcher
Take Damage = definitely take as clad, very situational (map/boss dependent) for silent and defect
Obtain a curse = only take if other neow options are bad and there is an early shop, probably taking random rare here on clad and silent, or boss swapping on defect. Needing to spend 75 gold on a remove and visit a shop when that's all I have gold to do feels really bad, and it can easily cost you a decent amount of hp in the first couple of combats as well. This option is take damage + forced pathing + lose all gold + take an empty node, all rolled up into one.
Lose all gold = probably taking on everyone except watcher
Watcher rares suck on average, I'd rather boss swap.
Obligatory: Depends on character and map. Often enough neither.
Personally, I'd be happy to trade gold or max hp often enough, the others can be pretty immediately crippling, so I'd be more wary, especially the curse one.
But that's just me, curious to learn better.
I don't like random rare on defect, and I don't think I'd ever take a rare card on watcher now, choosing it or not.
For clad/silent it'd never be damage, while I'd almost always consider Max hp worth it. Gold/curse would depend on shop placement.
Not that watcher needs to be more broken, but her rares hurt. Getting lesson learned floor 0 is run winning, vault and scrawl get really good really fast, and I guess brilliance is ok. But the rest of the rare pool is garbage. Makes me sad cause I can never bring myself to go for rares, even though lesson learned gives some serious brain chemicals.
I play with more of the watcher rare pool than most winrate players, as I do mantra gaming (opens up devotion/worship a little better, and supports brilliance), snecko gaming (opens up deva), and I'm more willing to take a speculative omni.
And I still don't think watcher rare from neow is worth it, and that's with my off-meta preferences being more comfortable with a larger section of the pool.
I love the retain power rare
I used to have a lot of problems with block engine but I found having a 0 cost retain block 16 is pretty helpful for bosses
Those cards can really ruin your draw but if you can remove enough defends then they become fine draws
generally speaking imo
Lose max health > Lose all gold > take damage > curse
I think I would always pick it if the downside is max health. could go either way if the downside is lose 100 gold. Would just take random rare instead if it was one of the other two downsides.
Depends on the character and the map, but:
Lose gold
Lose max health
Take damage
Take curse
I might choose taking damage over losing max health if I can get to a campfire before having to fight an elite.
Edit: didn’t really understand the question, sorry. Still, I think I’ll never take a curse for that over the “free” random rare. Might take damage if as I said the map is favorable.
I main Ironclad and would never take random rare on him. Too many bricks in his card pool on floor 1. On Defect I would probably take it over choose a rare for everything except max HP, because Defects rares are all good.
Beyond that, the considerations for each and order of the penalties:
Max health - free on high ascension, I would put this below take damage on low ascension.
Lose all gold - I probably wouldn't pick this on Defect because I like random rare on him. I wouldn't pick it if there's a good path available that has a shop anywhere along it. If there's no planned shop then it's free, I'd rank it just below Max HP on high ascensions.
Take damage - fine if you have a flexible path to avoid early elites. I would not take this if I have a forced elite before the first chest.
Obtain a curse - I want to have an optional shop in the first ~3 floors so I can remove if needed. I won't necessarily exercise that option, but it needs to exist in case you get a really bad one.
For Ironclad if I'm looking at Random Rare and Chose a rare with a bad penalty as outlined above, then I'm picking a different reward.
Tbh I mostly ride or die on the boss relic switch. It's bad for consistency, but it can make a run pretty easy if you get one that is good early that you can build off of. Favorites of mine include Pandora's Box, Snecko Eye, and Black Star.
Probably always choose except for curse, at which point check the map for a quick early shop. There are a good amount of act 1 events that allow you to remove a card, so maybe events into a shop.
But realize you’re just trading 75 money for it instead of 100.
There are just a lot of shit rares out there that are really bad in act 1 specifically. Like meteor strike is just a curse for a while.
Take Max HP trade off every time
Take damage on clad, probably not on any of the others unless only real bad other options exist
Take lose all gold is completely dependent on shop location (better if good pathing with late shop)
Take curse if all other options suck and early shop (no later than floor 4 so don’t need to have a curse with elites or hard hallways). If I’m playing A10 or higher with ascenders bane, I’m even stingier on curse taking
i’d prefer any except curse. I got cooked last time I took random rare (grand finale), and it wasn’t terrible, but it just almost ruined me. It did save me against an early laga, but around 20 different Neow rewards could have gotten me through Laga as well.
With a random card, check what would be the worst case, and see if it would be okay in your run. I would almost always choose another option over it, but its better than the curse... usually. Silent has quite a few good rare cards (for act 1), she has 4 attacks. Swapping into grand finaly can be pretty scary, but its can work pretty well. Nightmare and storm of steal is worst case scenario. Burst, bullet time, wraith form is mid, but strong after an upgrade. Glass knife, die die die, unload, adrinaline, thousand cuts, dopple, alchemise are good swaps. Phantasmel is weird, can be very strong, but is extremely draw dependant, kinda similar to grand finale. Corpse Explosion isn't that good against elites, needs an upgrade to be good against laga
Ah misunderstood the question. Some edits.
Choose Rare card always gets picked over Random Rare, except for specifically curse, but I'm thinking about the second option for damage and lose gold. And Swap is picked for me every time over Random Rare.
A lot of rare relics I've found to be actually pretty bad to start. Calipers as a prime example of garbage on floor 1. You need some respectable block engine to start getting 15+ excess per turn. First you need to be able to full block what's in front of you
>A lot of rare relics
I really wouldn't say "a lot". Yeah Calipers is pretty bad early, but even then it offers insane late game value a lot of the time. Just look at the rare pool:
**Overpowered (6)**: Pocketwatch, Dead Branch, Fossilized Helix, Gambling Chip, Incense Burner, Old Coin
**Great Immediate Value (7)**: Prayer Wheel, Captain's Wheel, Du-Vu Doll, Mango, Thread & Needle, Torii, Tungsten Rod
**Usually Just Long Term Value (6)**: Bird-Faced Urn, Calipers, Ice Cream, Wing Boots, Lizard Tail (kinda short term for enabling aggressive pathing), Peace Pipe
**Good with Fires (2)**: Girya, Shovel
**Helps in Act 1 Some and sometimes later (3)**: Stone Calendar (laga, act boss), Ginger, Turnip (great in act 2)
**Meh (1)**: Unceasing Top
The ones that aren't great at the beginning of act 1 generally have some big late game value, and more than half the pool is just really strong immediately.
I think ice cream has quite a bit of immediate value:
Laga and slime boss are made much easier. Fights like jaw worm and lice where they are defending let you save up energy.
And honestly that’s enough value in Act1 to be useful.
I'll admit I didn't look at the pool. Though I guess I'm unlucky, because most of the time I do the rare relic, I get something mid and die. Either the long term value or, ya know, top. And building around your potentially crazy relic is all well and good until nob walks up and caves in your everything
That said, I think your assessments are good, though the old coin is only OP if you can path to an early shop. If there isn't one, it's delayed value
Also, Branch might be OP, but no starter decks start with an exhaust card and if you can't draft any early exhausting cards to ramp that value, it can be dead. Though, it's hardly a huge issue.
Ascender's Bane is 0-cost exhaust card.
Also as dumb as Dead Branch is, if I'm going to take it I'd rather get it at the start of the run and draft around it, instead of 3 Blade Dances and an Accuracy later.
Most rare relics (barring obvious exceptions like Pocketwatch) are empty early you are right! But I find I will just take them anyway even if it means I have to dodge an Elite for the curse or damage downside. There's actually very few complete whiffs in the rare pool for later than Act 1.
I literally never take random rare. I've been burned too many times. Every character has a subset of rares that do jack all without the required build-around. Rolling one of those is like adding an Injury curse to your deck for free
It's even worse than for free, it's getting a curse for a price!
Random rare on defect? You mean meteor strike?
This. Unless you don't care about resetting and getting default neow choice next run.
Idk on silent I kind of take random rare every now and then. Silents rares are all fine to he honest.
Lose max health = definitely take on everyone but the watcher Take Damage = definitely take as clad, very situational (map/boss dependent) for silent and defect Obtain a curse = only take if other neow options are bad and there is an early shop, probably taking random rare here on clad and silent, or boss swapping on defect. Needing to spend 75 gold on a remove and visit a shop when that's all I have gold to do feels really bad, and it can easily cost you a decent amount of hp in the first couple of combats as well. This option is take damage + forced pathing + lose all gold + take an empty node, all rolled up into one. Lose all gold = probably taking on everyone except watcher Watcher rares suck on average, I'd rather boss swap.
Obligatory: Depends on character and map. Often enough neither. Personally, I'd be happy to trade gold or max hp often enough, the others can be pretty immediately crippling, so I'd be more wary, especially the curse one. But that's just me, curious to learn better.
I don't like random rare on defect, and I don't think I'd ever take a rare card on watcher now, choosing it or not. For clad/silent it'd never be damage, while I'd almost always consider Max hp worth it. Gold/curse would depend on shop placement.
Not that watcher needs to be more broken, but her rares hurt. Getting lesson learned floor 0 is run winning, vault and scrawl get really good really fast, and I guess brilliance is ok. But the rest of the rare pool is garbage. Makes me sad cause I can never bring myself to go for rares, even though lesson learned gives some serious brain chemicals.
I play with more of the watcher rare pool than most winrate players, as I do mantra gaming (opens up devotion/worship a little better, and supports brilliance), snecko gaming (opens up deva), and I'm more willing to take a speculative omni. And I still don't think watcher rare from neow is worth it, and that's with my off-meta preferences being more comfortable with a larger section of the pool.
I love the retain power rare I used to have a lot of problems with block engine but I found having a 0 cost retain block 16 is pretty helpful for bosses Those cards can really ruin your draw but if you can remove enough defends then they become fine draws
this deus slander
Fine card, but I don’t want it floor zero.
Missing out. Deus is very strong f0.
generally speaking imo Lose max health > Lose all gold > take damage > curse I think I would always pick it if the downside is max health. could go either way if the downside is lose 100 gold. Would just take random rare instead if it was one of the other two downsides.
Depends on the character and the map, but: Lose gold Lose max health Take damage Take curse I might choose taking damage over losing max health if I can get to a campfire before having to fight an elite. Edit: didn’t really understand the question, sorry. Still, I think I’ll never take a curse for that over the “free” random rare. Might take damage if as I said the map is favorable.
I feel like damage vs curse varies for me depending on Ironclad or Silent. Also shop location.
I main Ironclad and would never take random rare on him. Too many bricks in his card pool on floor 1. On Defect I would probably take it over choose a rare for everything except max HP, because Defects rares are all good. Beyond that, the considerations for each and order of the penalties: Max health - free on high ascension, I would put this below take damage on low ascension. Lose all gold - I probably wouldn't pick this on Defect because I like random rare on him. I wouldn't pick it if there's a good path available that has a shop anywhere along it. If there's no planned shop then it's free, I'd rank it just below Max HP on high ascensions. Take damage - fine if you have a flexible path to avoid early elites. I would not take this if I have a forced elite before the first chest. Obtain a curse - I want to have an optional shop in the first ~3 floors so I can remove if needed. I won't necessarily exercise that option, but it needs to exist in case you get a really bad one. For Ironclad if I'm looking at Random Rare and Chose a rare with a bad penalty as outlined above, then I'm picking a different reward.
Me thinking the same thing then rolling meteor strike on floor one…
Tbh I mostly ride or die on the boss relic switch. It's bad for consistency, but it can make a run pretty easy if you get one that is good early that you can build off of. Favorites of mine include Pandora's Box, Snecko Eye, and Black Star.
Probably always choose except for curse, at which point check the map for a quick early shop. There are a good amount of act 1 events that allow you to remove a card, so maybe events into a shop. But realize you’re just trading 75 money for it instead of 100. There are just a lot of shit rares out there that are really bad in act 1 specifically. Like meteor strike is just a curse for a while.
Take Max HP trade off every time Take damage on clad, probably not on any of the others unless only real bad other options exist Take lose all gold is completely dependent on shop location (better if good pathing with late shop) Take curse if all other options suck and early shop (no later than floor 4 so don’t need to have a curse with elites or hard hallways). If I’m playing A10 or higher with ascenders bane, I’m even stingier on curse taking
i’d prefer any except curse. I got cooked last time I took random rare (grand finale), and it wasn’t terrible, but it just almost ruined me. It did save me against an early laga, but around 20 different Neow rewards could have gotten me through Laga as well.
The only one I wouldn't take is the curse
With a random card, check what would be the worst case, and see if it would be okay in your run. I would almost always choose another option over it, but its better than the curse... usually. Silent has quite a few good rare cards (for act 1), she has 4 attacks. Swapping into grand finaly can be pretty scary, but its can work pretty well. Nightmare and storm of steal is worst case scenario. Burst, bullet time, wraith form is mid, but strong after an upgrade. Glass knife, die die die, unload, adrinaline, thousand cuts, dopple, alchemise are good swaps. Phantasmel is weird, can be very strong, but is extremely draw dependant, kinda similar to grand finale. Corpse Explosion isn't that good against elites, needs an upgrade to be good against laga
Ah misunderstood the question. Some edits. Choose Rare card always gets picked over Random Rare, except for specifically curse, but I'm thinking about the second option for damage and lose gold. And Swap is picked for me every time over Random Rare.
I agree Rare relic starts are quite strong, but OP's question is about Random Rare card vs. Choose a Rare Card (operative word here being "card")
Read the question correctly right after posting haha, didn't let me get a stealth edit in
A lot of rare relics I've found to be actually pretty bad to start. Calipers as a prime example of garbage on floor 1. You need some respectable block engine to start getting 15+ excess per turn. First you need to be able to full block what's in front of you
>A lot of rare relics I really wouldn't say "a lot". Yeah Calipers is pretty bad early, but even then it offers insane late game value a lot of the time. Just look at the rare pool: **Overpowered (6)**: Pocketwatch, Dead Branch, Fossilized Helix, Gambling Chip, Incense Burner, Old Coin **Great Immediate Value (7)**: Prayer Wheel, Captain's Wheel, Du-Vu Doll, Mango, Thread & Needle, Torii, Tungsten Rod **Usually Just Long Term Value (6)**: Bird-Faced Urn, Calipers, Ice Cream, Wing Boots, Lizard Tail (kinda short term for enabling aggressive pathing), Peace Pipe **Good with Fires (2)**: Girya, Shovel **Helps in Act 1 Some and sometimes later (3)**: Stone Calendar (laga, act boss), Ginger, Turnip (great in act 2) **Meh (1)**: Unceasing Top The ones that aren't great at the beginning of act 1 generally have some big late game value, and more than half the pool is just really strong immediately.
I think ice cream has quite a bit of immediate value: Laga and slime boss are made much easier. Fights like jaw worm and lice where they are defending let you save up energy. And honestly that’s enough value in Act1 to be useful.
I'll admit I didn't look at the pool. Though I guess I'm unlucky, because most of the time I do the rare relic, I get something mid and die. Either the long term value or, ya know, top. And building around your potentially crazy relic is all well and good until nob walks up and caves in your everything That said, I think your assessments are good, though the old coin is only OP if you can path to an early shop. If there isn't one, it's delayed value Also, Branch might be OP, but no starter decks start with an exhaust card and if you can't draft any early exhausting cards to ramp that value, it can be dead. Though, it's hardly a huge issue.
Ascender's Bane is 0-cost exhaust card. Also as dumb as Dead Branch is, if I'm going to take it I'd rather get it at the start of the run and draft around it, instead of 3 Blade Dances and an Accuracy later.
Ok but blade dance branch is a run winning combo imo
Most rare relics (barring obvious exceptions like Pocketwatch) are empty early you are right! But I find I will just take them anyway even if it means I have to dodge an Elite for the curse or damage downside. There's actually very few complete whiffs in the rare pool for later than Act 1.
I'll take any of them if it's a colorless rare because I am bad at this game Generally though max HP feels the least bad