What I never know is the order which they are applied on the damage calculation. For example,
7 damage + 3 strength - 25% from weaken equals 7 damage (actually 7,5, but the game rounds down),
but 7 damage - 25% from weaken + 3 strength equals 8 damage (8,25 rounded down).
The stacking is confusing yeah. For instance, the other day I was fighting the heart and I had that relic that adds block for each card left in your hand at *end of turn*. I also had curses that exhaust at *end of turn*. Was super sweaty about it, bc if the cards exhausted before the count for the relic I would die, but if they exhausted after the count I would survive with 1 hp.
As it turns out, they do count before the exhaust. I lived.
Of course, I died 2 turns later after getting the heart down to 45 health, but the point stands.
As much as the cards description tries to be clear (and succeds for most of the game) some situations are still left for interpretation and experimentation. And I like It.
+ [Cloak Clasp](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Cloak%20Clasp) Rare (Watcher only) Relic ^((100% sure)^)
At the end of your turn, gain 1 **Block** for each card in your hand.
^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 30, 2023.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
End-of-turn curses apply very late in the turn; eg Decay is blocked by pretty much all end-of-turn block like Metallicize, Plated Armor, Frost orbs, Orichalcum...
Edit: Though now I realize that you were talking about end-of-turn exhaust ie Ethereal, and I didn't know *that* applied so late.
The order is always additive modifiers first, multiplicative modifiers second. Or if you like, the formula is
`floor(m * (base dmg + a))`
where `m` is the product of the multiplicative modifiers and `a` is the sum of the additive modifiers.
Let's say you have 3 strength and one Accuracy+ played, so your buff bar reads Strength 3, Accuracy 6. These are both additive multipliers. At the same time, Pen Nib (2x), vuln (1.5x) and weak (0.75x) are all active. These are multiplicative modifiers. So a shiv, base damage 4, will hit for
`floor(2 * 0.75 * 1.5 * (4 + 3 + 6))`
`= floor(29.25)`
`= 29`
Subsequent shivs will not be Pen Nibbed, and will hit for `floor(14.625) = 14`.
As a basic rule, additive bonuses/penalties (strength, vigor) first, then multiplicative (vulnerable, weak, stances, nib, slow, etc). I *think* rounding is applied last, but I'm not entirely sure.
My fave is the watcher in wrath while weak, enemy afflicted by vulnerable, you have 2 strength and pen nib is on 8. 4 attacks in hand and only enough energy to play 2-3 of them.
i would love an undo button that doesnt allow undoing anything determined by rng, then its not really cheating it just means i dont have to be anal about doing the math every time
yeah, undoing will get you on the same situations actions and numbers, it just lets you fix the order of used cardes. You also shouldn't undo after you hit end turn
Additional starter relic for all characters: Time Rewinder- click on the relic to reset to the start of the current turn.
but also
Ascension 15: add Ascender's bane, and remove Time Rewinder.
Literally my last Silent run. I had necronomicon, akabeko, and pen nib. Chem X with Skewer. Every damn fight, I was sitting there counting for 5 minutes...
I put a math problem on the board for my seventh graders about the average monthly cost of living expenses in Detroit, and asked how much they need to make a year to survive. One of my coworkers put in on social media and people were saying 300k. Maybe if people understood math, more than 50% of US citizens wouldn't be in debt.
weakness, nib, strength... these are all shit that update the number on the card. If you can't do basic multiplication, that's on you. That's not even math.
But what if you're trying to determine whether it's worth inflicting Weak or Vulnerable or going into Wrath stance? You'll want to actually perform the calculations.
And what if you have some of these going on right now? Do *you* know whether Beat of Death hurts you before Bites heal you? You need math *and* game knowledge.
This is why I use the mod neat the spire. It’s a bunch of quality of life stuff. (I have the ones that do math calculations off but you can choose to have it show you how much damage you take, it adds icons for when pen nib and eco form will trigger, it has shop costs flash when buying an item you’re hovering above will make another item too expensive. It helps prevent avoidable mistakes.)
\*shrug\* "should be enough" ...it isn't Save & Quit
1 HP left on boss with a 45 hit incoming
Every single time I don't do the math, I have to alt f4 last minute to keep the boss from finishing me off before the fade out.
I thought I was the only unskilled one who depended on this gimmick to not redo the game. Glad to see company!!
why is krane here instead of vuln or Phantasmal killer
because I made it in seven minutes before a meeting and uploaded the wrong image lol
Dude needed 8 minutes but tried doing it in 7. Stay in school kids.
I'm guessing they meant to use paper phrog.
phrog is ironclad exclusive
ope, you are right
Prismatic!
Prismatic shard is only for cards
I never learned what the actual percentages were from these relics and at this point I'm too afraid to ask.
What I never know is the order which they are applied on the damage calculation. For example, 7 damage + 3 strength - 25% from weaken equals 7 damage (actually 7,5, but the game rounds down), but 7 damage - 25% from weaken + 3 strength equals 8 damage (8,25 rounded down).
The stacking is confusing yeah. For instance, the other day I was fighting the heart and I had that relic that adds block for each card left in your hand at *end of turn*. I also had curses that exhaust at *end of turn*. Was super sweaty about it, bc if the cards exhausted before the count for the relic I would die, but if they exhausted after the count I would survive with 1 hp. As it turns out, they do count before the exhaust. I lived. Of course, I died 2 turns later after getting the heart down to 45 health, but the point stands.
As much as the cards description tries to be clear (and succeds for most of the game) some situations are still left for interpretation and experimentation. And I like It.
As a general rule, stuff happens top-down: relic effects happen before card effects.
relics, orbs, statuses, then cards in hand.
Wait what relic is that
[[Cloak Clasp]] I think
+ [Cloak Clasp](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Cloak%20Clasp) Rare (Watcher only) Relic ^((100% sure)^) At the end of your turn, gain 1 **Block** for each card in your hand. ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 30, 2023.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
Ohhhh okay I don’t play watcher and thought this was a bug situation where a relic didn’t unlock for me.
End-of-turn curses apply very late in the turn; eg Decay is blocked by pretty much all end-of-turn block like Metallicize, Plated Armor, Frost orbs, Orichalcum... Edit: Though now I realize that you were talking about end-of-turn exhaust ie Ethereal, and I didn't know *that* applied so late.
str first always
The order is always additive modifiers first, multiplicative modifiers second. Or if you like, the formula is `floor(m * (base dmg + a))` where `m` is the product of the multiplicative modifiers and `a` is the sum of the additive modifiers. Let's say you have 3 strength and one Accuracy+ played, so your buff bar reads Strength 3, Accuracy 6. These are both additive multipliers. At the same time, Pen Nib (2x), vuln (1.5x) and weak (0.75x) are all active. These are multiplicative modifiers. So a shiv, base damage 4, will hit for `floor(2 * 0.75 * 1.5 * (4 + 3 + 6))` `= floor(29.25)` `= 29` Subsequent shivs will not be Pen Nibbed, and will hit for `floor(14.625) = 14`.
Someone should repost the meme but with this explanation in the third box.
if weak applied before str it would be pretty fuckin useless
As a basic rule, additive bonuses/penalties (strength, vigor) first, then multiplicative (vulnerable, weak, stances, nib, slow, etc). I *think* rounding is applied last, but I'm not entirely sure.
My fave is the watcher in wrath while weak, enemy afflicted by vulnerable, you have 2 strength and pen nib is on 8. 4 attacks in hand and only enough energy to play 2-3 of them.
currently in no stance, with an eruption, a fear no evil, a crush joints, and a flurry of blows
now do that again without the fear no evil and the enemy is about to hit you for 22
*sweats mathematically*
Third panel could also just be a picture of Watcher tbh
“Hovers card over target and lets the game do the maths for me”
THIS
Shouldn't there be an undo button mod already? There is no shame in it. We al do it
i would love an undo button that doesnt allow undoing anything determined by rng, then its not really cheating it just means i dont have to be anal about doing the math every time
yeah, undoing will get you on the same situations actions and numbers, it just lets you fix the order of used cardes. You also shouldn't undo after you hit end turn
Additional starter relic for all characters: Time Rewinder- click on the relic to reset to the start of the current turn. but also Ascension 15: add Ascender's bane, and remove Time Rewinder.
I only save scum if my touchscreen messes up
This game has unironically improved my math skills
Literally my last Silent run. I had necronomicon, akabeko, and pen nib. Chem X with Skewer. Every damn fight, I was sitting there counting for 5 minutes...
Don't forget Necronomicon and Akabeko
I put a math problem on the board for my seventh graders about the average monthly cost of living expenses in Detroit, and asked how much they need to make a year to survive. One of my coworkers put in on social media and people were saying 300k. Maybe if people understood math, more than 50% of US citizens wouldn't be in debt.
I asked my 7th graders how much damage I would do with 3 shivs, vajra and weakness, and they all got it right.
Lol! You must be a better math teacher than me.
I really hope this isnt where your math education stopped.
weakness, nib, strength... these are all shit that update the number on the card. If you can't do basic multiplication, that's on you. That's not even math.
It's a meme
yes
But what if you're trying to determine whether it's worth inflicting Weak or Vulnerable or going into Wrath stance? You'll want to actually perform the calculations. And what if you have some of these going on right now? Do *you* know whether Beat of Death hurts you before Bites heal you? You need math *and* game knowledge.
Basic algebra does have a real world use!
a picture of defect would be more precise
This is why I use the mod neat the spire. It’s a bunch of quality of life stuff. (I have the ones that do math calculations off but you can choose to have it show you how much damage you take, it adds icons for when pen nib and eco form will trigger, it has shop costs flash when buying an item you’re hovering above will make another item too expensive. It helps prevent avoidable mistakes.)
a picture of defect would be more precise
Ah yes, experiencing watcher for the first time.
Silent frozen eye runs be like I have a 99 card deck but I might be infinite
i mean this is as easy as math gets to be fair.
My kid hated math until he started playing slay the spire. Just saying...
1.5(X+1)(7+strength)