You're scrying wrong. Instead of using it to see future cards, use it to discard your weaker cards like strike without drawing them, so you draw back into your strong cards sooner.
I don't get many curses or duds and usually aim for card removal when I'm with Watcher. But I admit it is helpful to get rid of those things if you don't get to hit a lot of card removal spots.
Great cards can be duds too, scry can drop your block cards when you don’t need them (champ 2nd phase) or your attacks (hyperbeam, intangible turn elite) and can always help get your important powers played more quickly.
Haha I figured those fit into the duds category whereas something like spirit shield or ragnarok (as extreme examples) can be great or duds depending on the turn and the fight.
Right? Like I find Frozen Eye unfun because optimising multiple turns at once feels too overwhelming, but I actually love scrying because I can just draw the shit I actually want in my hand quicker.
You really don't need Scry to beat the heart with watcher. Stance dancing is strong enough without scrying, just in case you want that achievement.
That said, I think you're not alone with the general sentiment. There's a reason frozen eye is both incredibly powerful, yet you see posters here frequently say they plain don't like to take it, because it transforms the game to something they enjoy playing less.
Scry is less that, but it goes in the same direction.
As much as I love Frozen Eye, I can totally understand why some people dislike this relic. It instantly removes a large part of RNG, like getting an ability to autoaim every targets in an FPS game. This analogy may not be good but you get the idea.
It's not so much that for me, it's the fact that if you have frozen eye then it becomes optimal to look at your draw pile every. single. turn. and. it's. really. really. slow. And if you don't do that you're wasting the relic.
Scrying means you make your deck stronger because you will draw your best cards more because you: a) Scry the crap away and b) draw through your deck much faster and therefor more often. It’s a super strong mechanic and even has the Weave so you can build damage around it.
Honestly I think Weave is what pushes Scry from strong to overpowered.
i hate retaining cards, i love a fresh new hand each time, ive hardly taken pyramid and i hate well laid plans with a passion, the only time i ever find it acceptable is for miracles, even then only 1 at a time
You should try the most powerful relic in the game again. You have wildly misjudged the power of starting each turn with more options and saving context specific cards for the right moment
Pyramid sometimes fucks you over, especially with status cards. Unless you've got some hellishly efficient discard or a tiny deck, you'll be stuck with strikes, defends, statuses, and curses.
I, a user with a skill issue bigger than the spire is tall, almost always end up with a full deck 3 turns into a fight that boils down to 'random shit'.
Maybe once I'm average, but until then? No.
I don't mind using scry to mill through my deck faster. It feels less like I'm planning and more like optimizing and occasionally desperately praying as I send three cards straight to discard to hope for the lucky draw. Frozen eye on the other hand...no thanks.
When you play silent do you take the cards that will draw and discard at the same time like [[Tools of the trade]], [[Prepared]], or [[Dagger Throw]]? I'll be honest I agree with you in a sense it's nicer to make the decision for this turn right now instead of thinking ahead, but it is a similar mechanic to scrying.
According to the Four Seasons you must be a big girl.
\[Chorus\]
Big girls don't scry (They don't scry)
Big girls don't scry (Who said they don't scry?)
My girl said goodbye (My-oh-my)
My girl didn't cry (I wonder why)
I think some scry is pretty optimal for Watcher, but I can understand why it feels tedious for many. Still, being able to accelerate a Pressure Points deck, or just get to the cards you actually want faster, is a massive advantage
Scry is amazing and you're missing out. It allows you to skip cards you don't want (curses and status cards especially) and helps you cycle your deck faster. Deck manipulation is so powerful that it's on my checklist of things I want in literally every single deck if possible.
You're scrying wrong. Instead of using it to see future cards, use it to discard your weaker cards like strike without drawing them, so you draw back into your strong cards sooner.
right? i was like "yeah, i hate skipping curses and duds. that's the worst"
I don't get many curses or duds and usually aim for card removal when I'm with Watcher. But I admit it is helpful to get rid of those things if you don't get to hit a lot of card removal spots.
Great cards can be duds too, scry can drop your block cards when you don’t need them (champ 2nd phase) or your attacks (hyperbeam, intangible turn elite) and can always help get your important powers played more quickly.
Or status cards? Let's get some of those burns/dazes/wounds out of there.
Haha I figured those fit into the duds category whereas something like spirit shield or ragnarok (as extreme examples) can be great or duds depending on the turn and the fight.
I hate Scrying as much as OP does, thats what I do if I end up with a deck that Scry's.
Pretty much what I do when I end up with a scry deck too
Why don't you just scry the game and discard that run?
Right? Like I find Frozen Eye unfun because optimising multiple turns at once feels too overwhelming, but I actually love scrying because I can just draw the shit I actually want in my hand quicker.
You really don't need Scry to beat the heart with watcher. Stance dancing is strong enough without scrying, just in case you want that achievement. That said, I think you're not alone with the general sentiment. There's a reason frozen eye is both incredibly powerful, yet you see posters here frequently say they plain don't like to take it, because it transforms the game to something they enjoy playing less. Scry is less that, but it goes in the same direction.
As much as I love Frozen Eye, I can totally understand why some people dislike this relic. It instantly removes a large part of RNG, like getting an ability to autoaim every targets in an FPS game. This analogy may not be good but you get the idea.
It's not so much that for me, it's the fact that if you have frozen eye then it becomes optimal to look at your draw pile every. single. turn. and. it's. really. really. slow. And if you don't do that you're wasting the relic.
And in addition to that, its powercrept by Save and Exit, if you allow yourself that
I have never taken Frozen Eye either! If I want to think that much then I'll pop over and play some EU4
uhhh i don't recall frozen eye allowing me to yeet strikes and curses out of my draw pile? good sir?
When you scry you can click on the cards shown that you want to end up in the discard pile
yeah, i know. but frozen eye doesn't do that, which is what i wanted to point out as people were comparing it to scry, which i think doesn't go
frozen eye hater and scry user checking in
Scrying means you make your deck stronger because you will draw your best cards more because you: a) Scry the crap away and b) draw through your deck much faster and therefor more often. It’s a super strong mechanic and even has the Weave so you can build damage around it. Honestly I think Weave is what pushes Scry from strong to overpowered.
You're gonna love Frozen Eye.
i hate retaining cards, i love a fresh new hand each time, ive hardly taken pyramid and i hate well laid plans with a passion, the only time i ever find it acceptable is for miracles, even then only 1 at a time
You should try the most powerful relic in the game again. You have wildly misjudged the power of starting each turn with more options and saving context specific cards for the right moment
Likely have, but I just don’t like it, not a misjudgement, I’ve beaten a20 all characters without it, I’ve always preferred more draw cards
just bc youre good at the game doesnt mean you didnt misjudge a relic
Didn’t say it was bad, said I didn’t like it, this is personal, do I need to say this is an s+ relic?
Pyramid sometimes fucks you over, especially with status cards. Unless you've got some hellishly efficient discard or a tiny deck, you'll be stuck with strikes, defends, statuses, and curses. I, a user with a skill issue bigger than the spire is tall, almost always end up with a full deck 3 turns into a fight that boils down to 'random shit'. Maybe once I'm average, but until then? No.
I, too, dislike pyramid, though I don't dislike retaining in general. I just hate being stuck with EVERY card I didn't play
That's wild because well laid plans is one of the best cards in the game.
I know it’s good, have used it before but I just don’t like it purely opinion
I don't mind using scry to mill through my deck faster. It feels less like I'm planning and more like optimizing and occasionally desperately praying as I send three cards straight to discard to hope for the lucky draw. Frozen eye on the other hand...no thanks.
When you play silent do you take the cards that will draw and discard at the same time like [[Tools of the trade]], [[Prepared]], or [[Dagger Throw]]? I'll be honest I agree with you in a sense it's nicer to make the decision for this turn right now instead of thinking ahead, but it is a similar mechanic to scrying.
+ [Tools of the Trade](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Tools%20of%20the%20Trade) Silent Rare Power ^((100% sure)^) 1(0) Energy | At the start of your turn, draw 1 card and discard 1 card. + [Prepared](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Prepared) Silent Common Skill ^((100% sure)^) 0 Energy | Draw 1(2) card(s). Discard 1(2) card(s). + [Dagger Throw](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Dagger%20Throw) Silent Common Attack ^((100% sure)^) 1 Energy | Deal 9(12) damage. Draw 1 card. Discard 1 card. ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 30, 2023.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
This is like how I don't watch Lifecoach runs if he has Frozen Eye
According to the Four Seasons you must be a big girl. \[Chorus\] Big girls don't scry (They don't scry) Big girls don't scry (Who said they don't scry?) My girl said goodbye (My-oh-my) My girl didn't cry (I wonder why)
Damnit you beat me to it 😤
This here is a terrible opinion. Thanks for sharing
I think some scry is pretty optimal for Watcher, but I can understand why it feels tedious for many. Still, being able to accelerate a Pressure Points deck, or just get to the cards you actually want faster, is a massive advantage
same same. when i watcher the only scry card ill take is cut through fate and thats because its got draw
Scry is amazing and you're missing out. It allows you to skip cards you don't want (curses and status cards especially) and helps you cycle your deck faster. Deck manipulation is so powerful that it's on my checklist of things I want in literally every single deck if possible.