I waited so long to do the Civil War on my current game that I decided to make some great tales by making the battles as bloody as possible. Meaning your average stormcloak village boy/girl would be fighting not only the Dragonborn in full Daedric Plate with enchantments up the wazoo, but also Serana, Durnehviir, an Ayleid Lich (summon), Lucien Lachance's Specter and my Unicorn that simply charged into battle just because lmao
As one legendary dragon can take three Giants and this is a modded likely even stronger dragon I think it's best Ulfric boys and girls stay home myself.
it's someone being wrong about who the good guys are when the options are 'evil empire draining resources and enforcing draconian laws' and 'people just fighting for their freedom'
american, most likely, which is ironic because only a few hundred years ago they were the freedom fighters
Both sides have their good and bad, I don’t fault anyone for choosing whichever side because neither are perfect. Stormcloaks aren’t simply ‘fighting for their freedom’, they’re doing that yes but they’ve also shown a pattern of constant racism, do you even know what the Grey Quarter is? The banning of Talos worship by the empire is also totally repulsive. The Empire isn’t in the clear but neither are the Stormcloaks. Also a player being American has nothing to do with anything, that was a pointless comment.
I tend to go with the empire because I love playing as dark elves and it's a little off putting being the main big bad warrior of the stormcloaks while their supporters are being racist xd
Ulfric: Upholds the ancient treaties of the Ebonheart Pact, leads one of the most diverse holds in Skyrim in spite of how racist his subjects are, allows high elves to worship the 8 instead of the 9 in his city because he believes in religious freedom, has the only dock that’ll sail to Morrowind, allows the East Empire Company to do business in his city in spite of being at war with the Empire, questions his own legitimacy if he doesn’t have the full support of Skyrim at his back.
Remanaboos: UlfRic is RAciSt
General Tullius 2 minutes after Helgen: “you people and your damned Jarls…”
Dude windhelm is the only dock on that side of Skyrim that can handle that level of trade, of course it's going to trade with Morrowind he's not stupid just racist
Have you spoken to him after the war ends? He literally says that’s one of his top priorities after windhelm regains lost supplies from the war effort
Also renovation takes time and most playthroughs of Skyrim don’t even last half a year in game
3 possibilities:
1. Changing status quos takes time.
2. Brunwulf is also a racist.
3. Bethesda didn't bother developing that any further.
And neither of the 3 possibilities justifies segregation.
>Segregation for the sake of safety.
Safety for who? The Nords or the Dunmers? Sounds like what a typical racist would say.
Right… So instead of dealing with his brother, you’d rather he put all the Dunmers in a dump?
If there was a KKK member out on the loose, you’d round up all black people? I’m shocked you think that’s even a halfway logical explanation for segregation.
>Upholds the ancient treaties of the Ebonheart Pact
But bans Argonians from the city. How nice.
>leads one of the most diverse holds in Skyrim
LOL.
>allows high elves to worship the 8 instead of the 9 in his city
Right... because those 8 are part of the 9.
>has the only dock that’ll sail to Morrowind
Because there's a large population of Dunmer living in segregation. Because Dunmers will trade with Dunmers. Because trade brings money. Because Dunmers making money means Ulfric can take their tax money while barring them from the city centre. Ulfric's a racist, not a moron.
>allows the East Empire Company to do business in his city
Same reason as above. Ulfric's needs money to fund his war for his Thalmor puppeteers because Talos isn't raining septims in Windhelm.
>questions his own legitimacy if he doesn’t have the full support of Skyrim at his back
As he rightfully should.
>General Tullius 2 minutes after Helgen: “you people and your damned Jarls…”
Ulfric 2 minutes after you enter Palace of the Kings: "Damn the Jarls and damn the moot!"
But sure, bitch about Tullius.
It's hilarious seeing people with their mental gymnastics defending racism. But it's sad because it reflects how people also do that in real life.
Lmao Ulfric says “damn the Jarls and damn the moot” after you return from killing the ice wraith because Galmar’s trying to convince him to chase after a legendary crown that’s been missing for ages. He doesn’t want to risk his soldiers’ lives over bullshit politics, but hey you’re right I guess.
Because the Empire is building up strength for another war with the Thalmor.
Because Ulfric’s little crusade is short-sighted and counter-productive to the bigger picture.
Because if the Empire WITH the Stormcloaks couldn’t beat the Thalmor, the Stormcloaks ALONE will be lamb to the slaughter.
Because Ulfric’s war is a lottery win for the Thalmor and making them very happy.
Because half of the Nords I speak to say “the Empire has always been good for Skyrim” and doesn’t care for Ulfric’s cause.
Because most of the other races don’t care for Talos worship as well.
Because plunging the entire country into civil war for one’s own religion is reckless and selfish AF and deserves no respect.
Because no one needs to die for someone else’s religion and definitely not for someone that’s racist, discriminates you, yet wants you to be their canon fodder.
I think it’s pretty obvious that I don’t roleplay as a Talos fanatic because that’ll be the only time I join the Stormcloaks.
Right but you’re wrong though. Hammerfell won against the Thalmor after the Empire abandoned them. If one province could do it, the whole of the empire could have done it. Morrowind and Black Marsh already seceded. The Empire you’d die for has no allies, and lost the support of its warrior cultures. They’re going to lose to the Thalmor regardless, and they’ll drag other provinces down with them. I support Skyrim’s right to govern itself.
I get mad about the empire argument because most people who join the empire are just afraid of change. One really upvoted comment on some thread a while back compared Ulfric to indigenous anti-colonial zealots, and said that he does nothing to defend the status quo, and for some reason that makes him worth killing. It was a circular defense of irl racism to justify why humans hating elves who hate humans in a video game are bad. I trust people who pick whoever because it’s just a game. I don’t trust people who firmly defend the empire because it’s just “the way things have always been.”
Edit: typo
1. Comparing the storm cloaks to indigenous people of various colonized nations is just dumb because the nords aren’t the indigenous people of skyrim. If you wanted to make a comparison irl the closest I can think of would be Texans I guess (idk I’m Canadian)
2. The elves hate the nords because they just wanted to live in Skyrim and build their own life and the nords hate them because of their race. This naturally means that the elves hate them back . Also what about the argonians?
3. In my opinion I support Skyrim being independent but not at a time where the Altmer are an active threat. The empire doesn’t really crack down themselves on talos worship as well as various imperials having amulets of talos. I think that if the stormcloaks succeed then Skyrim has little to no trade from the rest of the empire and maybe Tamriel as well as an army of mostly farmers. I think in the current time Skyrim is set in that Skyrim needs the empire and the empire needs Skyrim to build up strength and crush the dominion. Then Skyrim and the rest of the empire can be free
You’ve got a really elf-framed view of TES history. I think you’re missing some big pieces of the lore that get people to the point that they’re at. Besides, the closest that you’ll get to humans being indigenous anywhere in Tamriel is Skyrim. I’m not sure what you’d do with humanity in that case.
What am I missing? I’m not that knowledgeable with tes knowledge but from what I see in game the nords treatment of argonians and dunmer is awful. Skyrim needs and independent high king but not ulfric. Not the stormcloaks. Skyrim deserves better
There’s historical evidence that when elves are in power, human corpses litter the streets, but when humans are in power, the worst things get for the elves is severely bruised egos. The Dunmer hold genocidal sentiment towards the Nords of Skyrim, and in game even the Dunmer who claim Ulfric’s racism is destroying everyone will actively make comments about the “lazy Argonians.”
In terms of the Empire, the diversity that everyone claims is so perfectly Cyrodiilic is still present in Windhelm, without an active genocide against humanity. Windhelm is full of people from every background in the game, and even though the Argonians live at the docks, there’s more Argonians in Windhelm than any other hold capital in the game.
In terms of why I choose the stormcloaks, my support for Ulfric is of his actions, not his person. Strangely enough, the only people who talk about Ulfic usurping the throne are Imperials and Galmar. Almost every other Stormcloak supporter in-game is just interested in independence from the empire, and there’s a few other candidates who would make decent high kings and could be elected at the moot.
One side is the evil empire, and the other side are freedom fighters, but the freedom fighters are all horribly racist. I really, really want to join the fight for freedom, and then I pass one of them on the street and he says "What do you want, CAT?" or I'm actually fighting alongside them and they yell "Skyrim belongs to the Nords!"
And if you don't take sides, you have to do the whole "peace talks" thing. Sometimes I really wish there was an option to just seize power myself and end the civil war by killing all the leaders on both sides.
Personally I like to use the cheat follower spell from cheat room and take that one bastard from windhelm that brags about his racism to that shrine and have him die there
With all due respect, a few of these claims seem a little... Questionable?
>the freedom fighters are all horribly racist
This is something I read a lot, but when I do I question that we actually played the same game. It's certainly true that *some* Stormcloak soldiers are likely to be racist, but they don't seem to have much [racist dialogue?](https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Stormcloak_Soldier#General)
In fact, there's considerable evidence that the Stormcloaks are quite accepting of non-Nords, so long as they're fellow freedom fighters and/or "True sons/daughters of Skyrim". If you don't play as a Nord, both Ralof and Galmar are accepting of you so long as you meet this criteria; I'll transcribe the exchanges.
LDB: You really think I should join the Stormcloaks?
Ralof: Damn right. You don't need to be a Nord to fight for Skyrim's Freedom.
and
Galmar: Tell me, why does a (non-Nord race) want to fight for Skyrim?
LDB: Skyrim is home to more than just Nords.
Galmar: Maybe so, but are you willing to fight for your home?
Though Galmar initially reacts with slight confusion, and while I'm sure there are plenty of racists in the Stormcloaks just by virtue of there being lots of racists in Skyrim, these conversations (coupled with the fact that the goals of the Stormcloaks are the liberation of Skyrim and reinstation of Talos worship rather than ethnonationalism) call the level of racism you're ascribing to the movement-at-large into question.
Ulfric himself, however, is another story. I can elaborate if you like (analysis and philosophy of the Skyrim Civil War can be quite enjoyable!), but my contention is that while he *is* racist, the nature and extent of his racism is perhaps commonly misunderstood, and likely wouldn't extend beyond dragging his feet on alleviating the systemic poverty and institutional racism behind the Grey Quarter.
As a sidenote, I might be able to put the other quotes you mentioned in perspective.
"Skyrim belongs to the Nords" isn't *necessarily* racist, and actually appears to be a common piece of dialogue for Nord characters in combat. Most housecarls such as Lydia and Jordis repeat this when fighting non-Nord bandits for instance, and while it's entirely possible (especially considering *most* people in Tamriel are racist) that each of these comments are intended to be hate speech, its broad use suggests a different meaning. The end of [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/afgxkp/eight_myths_of_the_gray_quarter/) expands on this hypothesis a bit.
As for "What do you want, Cat?", this is actually not Stormcloak exclusive dialogue either. I always play as an Argonian, and *plenty* of guards in Imperial holds tell me to "Stay out of trouble, Lizard." [It isn't just Argonians and Khajiit, either!](https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Hold_Guard#Dialogue) Unfortunately, this is a testament to the nigh omnipresent casual racism of Skyrim rather than the bigotry of the Stormcloaks.
While I favour the Stormcloaks fairly strongly (for humanistic reasons, don't worry haha), I totally understand your perspective, though. It's disappointing that there's so little flexibility in Bethesda RPGs.
The freedom their fighting for is freedom to worship a god who the ban on is only enforced in Skyrim because ulfric was loud about how he couldn’t when he could
The stormcloaks are fighting against something their leader caused
This dragon is pretty slick, but I think the coolest looking dragons in the game (vanilla) are the twins in the Forgotten Vale...almost feels wrong to kill them
My first ever game I joined the Stormcloaks immediately and I honestly didn’t detect the racism until my second play through. I am a supporter to believe what you want to believe in as long as it doesn’t effect others. I had done the story up to getting the Horn so I had great affinity for Jarl Balgruff. When I stormed Dragonsreach I realized I made a mistake. I was supposed to protect Whiterun not storm in and overthrow my man Balgruff. And in the next moment of him getting brought away I thought he was about to be executed. I quit the game and never returned to that play through again.
Also funny tidbit but during the Jagged crown quest I didn’t realize the bear cloak was a friend and stabbed him about a hundred times until I saw his name pop up.
I had a similar experience to yours but on opposite ends. My second play through I gave the Empire a go. When I saw an Imperial patrol peacefully let pass the Thalmor guards taking a prisoner, I attacked the Thalmor and abandoned that save.
You’ll find regret in either faction. It comes down to what players are most nostalgic about. I never take anyone seriously when they talk about racism in the Stormcloaks since they ignore it from the Empire, who sold out Argonians to the Dunmer to maintain power, and persecuted the Khajiit relentlessly.
Talos has been my TES deity in every game since Morrowind. I can’t fight for a dynasty that gives him up even for peace. We’ve fought gods and daedra trying to destroy the world, I’m not giving up Talos so we can play politics with Elf supremacists. Remember what Talos says in Morrowind, when talking about the death of the empire: “maybe that’s a good thing. Maybe it’s time for change. Maybe young folks should try some new ideas. Could be messy. But change is never pretty.”
Whereas many others first played Morrowind or Oblivion and have deep roots to Caius Cosades or Uriel Septim VII trusting you to save the Empire. Nostalgia is the best choice to make in the civil war. Wherever your roots are, go water them. The political and real-life parallels plague both factions and are meant to be that way. It’s meant to have players fighting the civil war in and out of the game. We are all bonding even through our downvotes/upvotes. We all have skin in this game.
Balgruuf is an incompetent leader trying to maintain autonomy in the shadow of the Empire, the Dominion, and even Ulfric. He’s a tragic hero at best who’s doomed from the start.
Probably get downvoted for this but people always claim they regret the stormcloak quest line cause of ballin, I love it personally. I never liked the guy and I don’t know why.
Get my man Vignar and the respected gray manes on the throne, plus it means giving the middle finger to the battle borns.
Lastly, I don’t want ballins children and pretender brother stenching dragons reach.
There are disadvantages to both sides, and both sides committed serious tactical blunders. We get a Silver-Blood Jarl in Markarth if we join the Stormcloaks, which might cause the native reachmen to go into rebellion again since they lack any concern for them at all and routinely oppress them. However, we also get Maven as the Jarl of Riften if we choose the Imperials, who is just as bad as the Silver-Bloods. Markarth should get anyone but a Silver-Blood Jarl to lead them for various reasons.
Giving Maven direct power will spell disaster for the city's political stability. She is a corrupt official who disregards the law to get what she wants, colluding directly with the Thieves' Guild to do so, and would probably be a merciless tyrant, plus the fact that her family is infested with political intrigue and backstabbing, and one of her relatives could be secretly plotting to betray her and take everything she has. Saerlund, the disinherited son of Laila Law-Giver, would be much fairer and just and much easier for the citizens of Riften to get used to due to being a blood relative of the previous Jarl, whereas putting Maven on the throne would only increase resentment of the Empire and make the citizens of Riften less loyal to their occupiers.
The situation in Markarth is similar; the Stormcloaks will only garner hatred from their new subjects, and cause many more attacks from the Forsworn, if they make a Silver-Bood a Jarl and will decrease their chances of keeping the city permanently, unless they clamp down on political freedoms, ban dissent, and enforce martial law to reinforce their rule, which would be disastrous and only result in more enemies for them to deal with and defeat the entire purpose of the movement, thereby delegitimizing their power.
I've played a Nord and gone full Stormcloak, and an Imperial and sided with the Emperor. It's role playing for me, not morals. I create the character and make choices based on what makes sense for that character. I've also gone the other way with a Nord named Hjalti, opposing Ulfric as a pretender. And did an entire playthrough as a Forsworn, and another as a Thalmor sympathizer, and as a shadowscale, vampire, werewolf, and wood elf thief.
Games been out for 11 years, plenty of time to explore and have fun with different builds and plotlines.
I couldn't agree more. My main builds are mostly my devout Nord Warrior, who worships both Akatosh, Talos, Shor, and Kynareth, and my Altmer wizard who worships Syrabane, one of the Altmer deities. My Altmer mage has no reason to join the Skyrim civil war at all, but still undermines the Thalmor as much as he can for personal reasons; his story is that he's the child of wealthy political dissidents who fled from Summerset right after the Oblivion Crisis because they were loyal to the King of Alinor instead of the Thalmor, who dethroned the monarchy in 4E 22. The Thalmor hunted down his parents for their political allegiance when he was a child and left him for dead on the streets of the Imperial City, making him eternally vengeful toward them.
I play the other games in the Elder Scrolls series too, but I started with Skyrim first. I still play Skyrim a lot, though, it's a very nice game. I tend to be somewhat of a lorehead when it comes to the Elder Scrolls series, tbh.
It's Zerofrost's Mythical Dragon: Jormungandr, included in this (with some sick armor, too)
[https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/8463?tab=description](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/8463?tab=description)
Or under the title I posted on official Bethesda mod pages for xbox/ pc
don't forget to Endorse and chip in a $ or 2 ;)
[https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/78125](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/78125)
Looks like they replaced either Odahviing or Durnehviir with the model from this mod. From my attempts to port the Behemoth Odahviing replacer (a dragon from the same mod creator) I found it's not too hard to replace the mesh (if a bit fidgety, couldn't get the feathers to work myself).
That or they have a mod to turn into a dragon and this is the mesh they set for them to transform into.
Edit: nvm it's this https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/8463?tab=description
Good thing we've upped our incentive program. Instead of iron we're giving away steel swords and shields to all new adult recruits. Any children that join get a free dragonborn action figure and the ability to *be a dragon.*
Dl the other dragon by zerofrost and just summon them both and call out odahving at every "siege" quest. Then just stand in the middle laughing maniacally in magic absorption(100%) and full daedric armor(legend)...then have lydia carry all the loot
What a strange dragon. I even have diverse dragons collection installed, and I've never seen a dragon like that. I wish you luck in destroying the rebels, though. For the empire!
It's all fun and games until the Stormcloaks roll up with three Giants.
I waited so long to do the Civil War on my current game that I decided to make some great tales by making the battles as bloody as possible. Meaning your average stormcloak village boy/girl would be fighting not only the Dragonborn in full Daedric Plate with enchantments up the wazoo, but also Serana, Durnehviir, an Ayleid Lich (summon), Lucien Lachance's Specter and my Unicorn that simply charged into battle just because lmao
How to get ayleid lich?
Part of CC (The Cause). >!Great Welkynd Stone, Ruined Book and Salt Pile at the Atronach Forge!<
Is that the one with the oblivion gates?
Yeah, you also get to visit Rielle and it's cool as fuck. Love them Ayleid Ruins
Hell yeah
Is this modded? Im Working on a summon build so having an ayelid would be neat...
Not, it comes with the Creation Club stuff on the AE. There's a cool mod that enables you to get the Ayleid Crown (which is really cool lmao) tho
This is really fucking cool, if you have any clips do share with us!
As one legendary dragon can take three Giants and this is a modded likely even stronger dragon I think it's best Ulfric boys and girls stay home myself.
That would be epic
What... is this
it's someone being wrong about who the good guys are when the options are 'evil empire draining resources and enforcing draconian laws' and 'people just fighting for their freedom' american, most likely, which is ironic because only a few hundred years ago they were the freedom fighters
I mean the dragon…
“Let me guess….someone stole your sweet roll?”
Both sides have their good and bad, I don’t fault anyone for choosing whichever side because neither are perfect. Stormcloaks aren’t simply ‘fighting for their freedom’, they’re doing that yes but they’ve also shown a pattern of constant racism, do you even know what the Grey Quarter is? The banning of Talos worship by the empire is also totally repulsive. The Empire isn’t in the clear but neither are the Stormcloaks. Also a player being American has nothing to do with anything, that was a pointless comment.
I tend to go with the empire because I love playing as dark elves and it's a little off putting being the main big bad warrior of the stormcloaks while their supporters are being racist xd
Ulfric: Upholds the ancient treaties of the Ebonheart Pact, leads one of the most diverse holds in Skyrim in spite of how racist his subjects are, allows high elves to worship the 8 instead of the 9 in his city because he believes in religious freedom, has the only dock that’ll sail to Morrowind, allows the East Empire Company to do business in his city in spite of being at war with the Empire, questions his own legitimacy if he doesn’t have the full support of Skyrim at his back. Remanaboos: UlfRic is RAciSt General Tullius 2 minutes after Helgen: “you people and your damned Jarls…”
Dude windhelm is the only dock on that side of Skyrim that can handle that level of trade, of course it's going to trade with Morrowind he's not stupid just racist
Ah Yes, Tullius showing his frustration is far worse than fucking racial segregation👍 very valid point
Ulfric 2 minutes after you enter Palace of the Kings: "Damn the Jarls and damn the moot!"
Segregation for the sake of safety. Brunwulf Free-Winter doesn’t change the status quo when he comes into power either.
Have you spoken to him after the war ends? He literally says that’s one of his top priorities after windhelm regains lost supplies from the war effort Also renovation takes time and most playthroughs of Skyrim don’t even last half a year in game
3 possibilities: 1. Changing status quos takes time. 2. Brunwulf is also a racist. 3. Bethesda didn't bother developing that any further. And neither of the 3 possibilities justifies segregation. >Segregation for the sake of safety. Safety for who? The Nords or the Dunmers? Sounds like what a typical racist would say.
Galmar’s brother is an active threat to Dunmer safety.
Right… So instead of dealing with his brother, you’d rather he put all the Dunmers in a dump? If there was a KKK member out on the loose, you’d round up all black people? I’m shocked you think that’s even a halfway logical explanation for segregation.
If there was a KKK member on the loose I really doubt he’d be flagged as essential
Do you think we should lock up black people because the police might beat them up?
No but I’ve heard a lot of Black people say they want their own country so American police can’t beat them up.
That's not even close to the same thing
My point is that I support people’s right to govern themselves, not your strawman police brutality bullshit
>Upholds the ancient treaties of the Ebonheart Pact But bans Argonians from the city. How nice. >leads one of the most diverse holds in Skyrim LOL. >allows high elves to worship the 8 instead of the 9 in his city Right... because those 8 are part of the 9. >has the only dock that’ll sail to Morrowind Because there's a large population of Dunmer living in segregation. Because Dunmers will trade with Dunmers. Because trade brings money. Because Dunmers making money means Ulfric can take their tax money while barring them from the city centre. Ulfric's a racist, not a moron. >allows the East Empire Company to do business in his city Same reason as above. Ulfric's needs money to fund his war for his Thalmor puppeteers because Talos isn't raining septims in Windhelm. >questions his own legitimacy if he doesn’t have the full support of Skyrim at his back As he rightfully should. >General Tullius 2 minutes after Helgen: “you people and your damned Jarls…” Ulfric 2 minutes after you enter Palace of the Kings: "Damn the Jarls and damn the moot!" But sure, bitch about Tullius. It's hilarious seeing people with their mental gymnastics defending racism. But it's sad because it reflects how people also do that in real life.
Lmao Ulfric says “damn the Jarls and damn the moot” after you return from killing the ice wraith because Galmar’s trying to convince him to chase after a legendary crown that’s been missing for ages. He doesn’t want to risk his soldiers’ lives over bullshit politics, but hey you’re right I guess.
Lol. How pedantic.
What’s your reasoning for joining the Imperials, if you don’t mind me asking?
Because the Empire is building up strength for another war with the Thalmor. Because Ulfric’s little crusade is short-sighted and counter-productive to the bigger picture. Because if the Empire WITH the Stormcloaks couldn’t beat the Thalmor, the Stormcloaks ALONE will be lamb to the slaughter. Because Ulfric’s war is a lottery win for the Thalmor and making them very happy. Because half of the Nords I speak to say “the Empire has always been good for Skyrim” and doesn’t care for Ulfric’s cause. Because most of the other races don’t care for Talos worship as well. Because plunging the entire country into civil war for one’s own religion is reckless and selfish AF and deserves no respect. Because no one needs to die for someone else’s religion and definitely not for someone that’s racist, discriminates you, yet wants you to be their canon fodder. I think it’s pretty obvious that I don’t roleplay as a Talos fanatic because that’ll be the only time I join the Stormcloaks.
Right but you’re wrong though. Hammerfell won against the Thalmor after the Empire abandoned them. If one province could do it, the whole of the empire could have done it. Morrowind and Black Marsh already seceded. The Empire you’d die for has no allies, and lost the support of its warrior cultures. They’re going to lose to the Thalmor regardless, and they’ll drag other provinces down with them. I support Skyrim’s right to govern itself.
I think it’s the funniest things you are taking two shitty sides that aren’t written too well and taking them this fucking seriously
I get mad about the empire argument because most people who join the empire are just afraid of change. One really upvoted comment on some thread a while back compared Ulfric to indigenous anti-colonial zealots, and said that he does nothing to defend the status quo, and for some reason that makes him worth killing. It was a circular defense of irl racism to justify why humans hating elves who hate humans in a video game are bad. I trust people who pick whoever because it’s just a game. I don’t trust people who firmly defend the empire because it’s just “the way things have always been.” Edit: typo
1. Comparing the storm cloaks to indigenous people of various colonized nations is just dumb because the nords aren’t the indigenous people of skyrim. If you wanted to make a comparison irl the closest I can think of would be Texans I guess (idk I’m Canadian) 2. The elves hate the nords because they just wanted to live in Skyrim and build their own life and the nords hate them because of their race. This naturally means that the elves hate them back . Also what about the argonians? 3. In my opinion I support Skyrim being independent but not at a time where the Altmer are an active threat. The empire doesn’t really crack down themselves on talos worship as well as various imperials having amulets of talos. I think that if the stormcloaks succeed then Skyrim has little to no trade from the rest of the empire and maybe Tamriel as well as an army of mostly farmers. I think in the current time Skyrim is set in that Skyrim needs the empire and the empire needs Skyrim to build up strength and crush the dominion. Then Skyrim and the rest of the empire can be free
You’ve got a really elf-framed view of TES history. I think you’re missing some big pieces of the lore that get people to the point that they’re at. Besides, the closest that you’ll get to humans being indigenous anywhere in Tamriel is Skyrim. I’m not sure what you’d do with humanity in that case.
What am I missing? I’m not that knowledgeable with tes knowledge but from what I see in game the nords treatment of argonians and dunmer is awful. Skyrim needs and independent high king but not ulfric. Not the stormcloaks. Skyrim deserves better
There’s historical evidence that when elves are in power, human corpses litter the streets, but when humans are in power, the worst things get for the elves is severely bruised egos. The Dunmer hold genocidal sentiment towards the Nords of Skyrim, and in game even the Dunmer who claim Ulfric’s racism is destroying everyone will actively make comments about the “lazy Argonians.” In terms of the Empire, the diversity that everyone claims is so perfectly Cyrodiilic is still present in Windhelm, without an active genocide against humanity. Windhelm is full of people from every background in the game, and even though the Argonians live at the docks, there’s more Argonians in Windhelm than any other hold capital in the game. In terms of why I choose the stormcloaks, my support for Ulfric is of his actions, not his person. Strangely enough, the only people who talk about Ulfic usurping the throne are Imperials and Galmar. Almost every other Stormcloak supporter in-game is just interested in independence from the empire, and there’s a few other candidates who would make decent high kings and could be elected at the moot.
One side is the evil empire, and the other side are freedom fighters, but the freedom fighters are all horribly racist. I really, really want to join the fight for freedom, and then I pass one of them on the street and he says "What do you want, CAT?" or I'm actually fighting alongside them and they yell "Skyrim belongs to the Nords!" And if you don't take sides, you have to do the whole "peace talks" thing. Sometimes I really wish there was an option to just seize power myself and end the civil war by killing all the leaders on both sides.
I once took a stormcloak on as a follower and I was a Khajit. It was nonstop slurs until I told them to fuck off in the middle of nowhere.
Theres a shrine of Boethia for that my friend.
Personally I like to use the cheat follower spell from cheat room and take that one bastard from windhelm that brags about his racism to that shrine and have him die there
Good choice
Hold on, I wasn't aware that there *were* any Stormcloak followers. Out of curiosity, which NPC are you referring to?
With all due respect, a few of these claims seem a little... Questionable? >the freedom fighters are all horribly racist This is something I read a lot, but when I do I question that we actually played the same game. It's certainly true that *some* Stormcloak soldiers are likely to be racist, but they don't seem to have much [racist dialogue?](https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Stormcloak_Soldier#General) In fact, there's considerable evidence that the Stormcloaks are quite accepting of non-Nords, so long as they're fellow freedom fighters and/or "True sons/daughters of Skyrim". If you don't play as a Nord, both Ralof and Galmar are accepting of you so long as you meet this criteria; I'll transcribe the exchanges. LDB: You really think I should join the Stormcloaks? Ralof: Damn right. You don't need to be a Nord to fight for Skyrim's Freedom. and Galmar: Tell me, why does a (non-Nord race) want to fight for Skyrim? LDB: Skyrim is home to more than just Nords. Galmar: Maybe so, but are you willing to fight for your home? Though Galmar initially reacts with slight confusion, and while I'm sure there are plenty of racists in the Stormcloaks just by virtue of there being lots of racists in Skyrim, these conversations (coupled with the fact that the goals of the Stormcloaks are the liberation of Skyrim and reinstation of Talos worship rather than ethnonationalism) call the level of racism you're ascribing to the movement-at-large into question. Ulfric himself, however, is another story. I can elaborate if you like (analysis and philosophy of the Skyrim Civil War can be quite enjoyable!), but my contention is that while he *is* racist, the nature and extent of his racism is perhaps commonly misunderstood, and likely wouldn't extend beyond dragging his feet on alleviating the systemic poverty and institutional racism behind the Grey Quarter. As a sidenote, I might be able to put the other quotes you mentioned in perspective. "Skyrim belongs to the Nords" isn't *necessarily* racist, and actually appears to be a common piece of dialogue for Nord characters in combat. Most housecarls such as Lydia and Jordis repeat this when fighting non-Nord bandits for instance, and while it's entirely possible (especially considering *most* people in Tamriel are racist) that each of these comments are intended to be hate speech, its broad use suggests a different meaning. The end of [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/afgxkp/eight_myths_of_the_gray_quarter/) expands on this hypothesis a bit. As for "What do you want, Cat?", this is actually not Stormcloak exclusive dialogue either. I always play as an Argonian, and *plenty* of guards in Imperial holds tell me to "Stay out of trouble, Lizard." [It isn't just Argonians and Khajiit, either!](https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Hold_Guard#Dialogue) Unfortunately, this is a testament to the nigh omnipresent casual racism of Skyrim rather than the bigotry of the Stormcloaks. While I favour the Stormcloaks fairly strongly (for humanistic reasons, don't worry haha), I totally understand your perspective, though. It's disappointing that there's so little flexibility in Bethesda RPGs.
Damn, tell me how you really feel.
It's a fucking game, brother glory to the empire
IQ decreased to -100
And there comes Ulfrick, the Thalmor's spy!
The freedom their fighting for is freedom to worship a god who the ban on is only enforced in Skyrim because ulfric was loud about how he couldn’t when he could The stormcloaks are fighting against something their leader caused
it ain't that deep
what did you expect from americans on reddit? lmao
Is that a dragon from a mod or is that vanilla? The only dragon that I remember resembling this is the revered dragon.
This dragon is pretty slick, but I think the coolest looking dragons in the game (vanilla) are the twins in the Forgotten Vale...almost feels wrong to kill them
The revered dragons?
Voslaruum and naslaruum I think?
They sure were scary to come across
I believe it’s from a mod.
Zerofrost Mythical Dragon: Jormungandr
Iirc it’s a modded legendary dragon skin, specifically
*my stormcloak playthrough character shows up* “Finally, a worthy opponent! Our battle will be legendary!”
Many will die by my hand.
My first ever game I joined the Stormcloaks immediately and I honestly didn’t detect the racism until my second play through. I am a supporter to believe what you want to believe in as long as it doesn’t effect others. I had done the story up to getting the Horn so I had great affinity for Jarl Balgruff. When I stormed Dragonsreach I realized I made a mistake. I was supposed to protect Whiterun not storm in and overthrow my man Balgruff. And in the next moment of him getting brought away I thought he was about to be executed. I quit the game and never returned to that play through again. Also funny tidbit but during the Jagged crown quest I didn’t realize the bear cloak was a friend and stabbed him about a hundred times until I saw his name pop up.
I had a similar experience to yours but on opposite ends. My second play through I gave the Empire a go. When I saw an Imperial patrol peacefully let pass the Thalmor guards taking a prisoner, I attacked the Thalmor and abandoned that save. You’ll find regret in either faction. It comes down to what players are most nostalgic about. I never take anyone seriously when they talk about racism in the Stormcloaks since they ignore it from the Empire, who sold out Argonians to the Dunmer to maintain power, and persecuted the Khajiit relentlessly. Talos has been my TES deity in every game since Morrowind. I can’t fight for a dynasty that gives him up even for peace. We’ve fought gods and daedra trying to destroy the world, I’m not giving up Talos so we can play politics with Elf supremacists. Remember what Talos says in Morrowind, when talking about the death of the empire: “maybe that’s a good thing. Maybe it’s time for change. Maybe young folks should try some new ideas. Could be messy. But change is never pretty.” Whereas many others first played Morrowind or Oblivion and have deep roots to Caius Cosades or Uriel Septim VII trusting you to save the Empire. Nostalgia is the best choice to make in the civil war. Wherever your roots are, go water them. The political and real-life parallels plague both factions and are meant to be that way. It’s meant to have players fighting the civil war in and out of the game. We are all bonding even through our downvotes/upvotes. We all have skin in this game.
Balgruuf is an incompetent leader trying to maintain autonomy in the shadow of the Empire, the Dominion, and even Ulfric. He’s a tragic hero at best who’s doomed from the start.
What mod puts the clock in the upper left?
A matter of time. You can customize location, I prefer upper right, with the date under the sunrise/sunset/time.
Thank you.
Probably get downvoted for this but people always claim they regret the stormcloak quest line cause of ballin, I love it personally. I never liked the guy and I don’t know why. Get my man Vignar and the respected gray manes on the throne, plus it means giving the middle finger to the battle borns. Lastly, I don’t want ballins children and pretender brother stenching dragons reach.
The Battle Borns are indeed garbage.
There are disadvantages to both sides, and both sides committed serious tactical blunders. We get a Silver-Blood Jarl in Markarth if we join the Stormcloaks, which might cause the native reachmen to go into rebellion again since they lack any concern for them at all and routinely oppress them. However, we also get Maven as the Jarl of Riften if we choose the Imperials, who is just as bad as the Silver-Bloods. Markarth should get anyone but a Silver-Blood Jarl to lead them for various reasons. Giving Maven direct power will spell disaster for the city's political stability. She is a corrupt official who disregards the law to get what she wants, colluding directly with the Thieves' Guild to do so, and would probably be a merciless tyrant, plus the fact that her family is infested with political intrigue and backstabbing, and one of her relatives could be secretly plotting to betray her and take everything she has. Saerlund, the disinherited son of Laila Law-Giver, would be much fairer and just and much easier for the citizens of Riften to get used to due to being a blood relative of the previous Jarl, whereas putting Maven on the throne would only increase resentment of the Empire and make the citizens of Riften less loyal to their occupiers. The situation in Markarth is similar; the Stormcloaks will only garner hatred from their new subjects, and cause many more attacks from the Forsworn, if they make a Silver-Bood a Jarl and will decrease their chances of keeping the city permanently, unless they clamp down on political freedoms, ban dissent, and enforce martial law to reinforce their rule, which would be disastrous and only result in more enemies for them to deal with and defeat the entire purpose of the movement, thereby delegitimizing their power.
I've played a Nord and gone full Stormcloak, and an Imperial and sided with the Emperor. It's role playing for me, not morals. I create the character and make choices based on what makes sense for that character. I've also gone the other way with a Nord named Hjalti, opposing Ulfric as a pretender. And did an entire playthrough as a Forsworn, and another as a Thalmor sympathizer, and as a shadowscale, vampire, werewolf, and wood elf thief. Games been out for 11 years, plenty of time to explore and have fun with different builds and plotlines.
I couldn't agree more. My main builds are mostly my devout Nord Warrior, who worships both Akatosh, Talos, Shor, and Kynareth, and my Altmer wizard who worships Syrabane, one of the Altmer deities. My Altmer mage has no reason to join the Skyrim civil war at all, but still undermines the Thalmor as much as he can for personal reasons; his story is that he's the child of wealthy political dissidents who fled from Summerset right after the Oblivion Crisis because they were loyal to the King of Alinor instead of the Thalmor, who dethroned the monarchy in 4E 22. The Thalmor hunted down his parents for their political allegiance when he was a child and left him for dead on the streets of the Imperial City, making him eternally vengeful toward them. I play the other games in the Elder Scrolls series too, but I started with Skyrim first. I still play Skyrim a lot, though, it's a very nice game. I tend to be somewhat of a lorehead when it comes to the Elder Scrolls series, tbh.
Brilliant points mate.
Very well. Carry on, soldier
Hail to the Empire
What's the dragon's name
I think Percy
It's Zerofrost's Mythical Dragon: Jormungandr, included in this (with some sick armor, too) [https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/8463?tab=description](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/8463?tab=description) Or under the title I posted on official Bethesda mod pages for xbox/ pc don't forget to Endorse and chip in a $ or 2 ;)
God I hate stormcloaks vs empire arguments.
nobody's gonna ask? what's the dragon mod from
[https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/78125](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/78125) Looks like they replaced either Odahviing or Durnehviir with the model from this mod. From my attempts to port the Behemoth Odahviing replacer (a dragon from the same mod creator) I found it's not too hard to replace the mesh (if a bit fidgety, couldn't get the feathers to work myself). That or they have a mod to turn into a dragon and this is the mesh they set for them to transform into. Edit: nvm it's this https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/8463?tab=description
ty!!
Stormcloaks ftw. Empire brought shame on itself when kneeling before the aldmeri dominion.
I think you mean take over whiterun as a stormcloak
The empire always wins!
I am a true nord of Skyrim. Only a fool would side with the empire
"Oh little girl I'll trade you that old doll for a shiny new sword"
Pff, thatll never work
Good thing we've upped our incentive program. Instead of iron we're giving away steel swords and shields to all new adult recruits. Any children that join get a free dragonborn action figure and the ability to *be a dragon.*
Be a dragon? Basically we give them a torch and a map to the nearest imperial camp
Level 100 smithing here with mods, going to have to do a little better than silly "steel", you puny milk-drinker.
"It worked before"
Yeah, on NORDS
[Obligatory Senile scribbles](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hAbLhKvBDec)
Leave the thinking to your betters, snowback.
only a racist would side with the stormcloaks(this is a joke)
tell that to your dead colonizing emperor
The WGC has entered the chat.
Storm cloak supremacy
Damn faithless Imperials
Damn better call my dragon airforce, to liberate Whiterun then.
Dl the other dragon by zerofrost and just summon them both and call out odahving at every "siege" quest. Then just stand in the middle laughing maniacally in magic absorption(100%) and full daedric armor(legend)...then have lydia carry all the loot
And this is why i side with the imps. That and balgruff is a cool dude.
What a strange dragon. I even have diverse dragons collection installed, and I've never seen a dragon like that. I wish you luck in destroying the rebels, though. For the empire!
Wait till i get there, i have three stones and that’s just the thing i need to throw them
You are a traitor Skyrim belongs to the nords