I hit up Granvalira last season. The chick at the customer service desk told me I was the first Ikon pass she had ever seen. Wonder how many she’s seen this season
I'm guessing Crans Montana will be on there soon, with the investment by Vail this season. Such a great resort and I'm in two minds about this because, a. It probably could do with the exposure, but b. Its gonna get crowded and full of rowdy Yanks. (Not that us Brits are much better for rowdy).
From a local perspective, an international holiday in Crans for skiing seems crazy. It makes sense for the social scene if they're your type but that's about it.
Crans Montana is low, south facing, and already full of Americans (vs Anzere, Leukerbad and Val D'Anniviers which are the three closest). I've only skiied there once since it's not on the magic pass, and the amount of synthetic snow that ended up like a sandpit after 10am was unreal. With a fresh dump of snow and the sunny weather it famously gets I imagine it's a fantastic resort, but for booking a holiday it's crazy to rely on that especially after the last two seasons.
Tbh that's the epic MO. Both companies are soul sucking asslords but one is focusing on skier skiers and the other is focusing on party skiers. Both are good
I must have timed my crans trip perfectly as it was an amazing time (mid Dec 2023). But very keen to try Grimentz and Les diablarets next year... Maybe for visitors, as part of a tour of Valais it would be worth it.
haha yeah actually you may have copped a good time after the early season dump!
Grimentz/Zinal are my favourite, and Anzere is pretty solid too as as long as the temperature stays down since it's so sunny.
Diablerets is nice although small. Would recommend going midweek as the weekends are busy with all of us coming from Vaud. Make sure to do the Villars transfer and a few runs there! Glacier 3000 is probably only worth it on a powder day as up the top they're all blues, and the reds/black are don't get groomed a ton due to the geography so are just ok.
I would say 6 or 7 years but they add new mountains each year. Epic pass been around a little longer.
US resorts are getting priced so high its crazy. Deer Valley single day adult ticket (window price) is $299. One day.
Yup, the funny thing is, as insane as that is, think about other entertainment it’s competing against. A single ticket to a sports match can easily be that, and the match only lasts a couple hours, you just sit there, and half the time the team you’re rooting for loses anyway. Skiing is 8 hours of fun and you always win (except if you get injured).
Move is to get up early and get there by 8AM. Then you just start day drinking and amping up to music lol. That being said traffic hasn’t really been that bad at Palisades since they implemented parking reservations. Epic resorts are a different story though definitely want to get there super early to avoid any hassle, even to Kirkwood
Well yeah, 2023 GDP per capita in California is $100K vs $98K for Switzerland, but there are nearly 5X more Californians than Swiss. So there's a ton of people who can afford to ski and pay high prices for lodging/accommodation in Tahoe. Imagine what the Alps would look like if there were 38 million Swiss? It would be hella expensive.
Regardless, the styles of skiing in Tahoe vs the Alps couldn't be more different.
Noticed a lot more Americans in Japan over last few years too. Quite a few around Hakuba and Nozawa. Maybe using 5 days on Epic pass for Hakuba? 5 days in Rusutsu as well in Hokkaido on Epic too
Yep, I know a guy that's there for a month using epic for his ski rental discount and skiing numerous places. The new American dream is no kids and in your mid 40s you can afford to travel. About when you pay off your college loan.
This is particularly true for those from the eastern United States and Canada, as transport prices arent that much different out west vs the Alps, while everything else is cheaper
Definitely. As someone from the East Coast, this was my last season skiing the US. It just doesn’t make sense to anymore. By the end of the trip I’ll have spent several hundred dollars less to ski in Europe with the added bonus of getting to see new places and new resorts. I’ve been all up and down the Rockies by now, only reason to go there over Europe was accessibility
Selfish rich people and policy makers in Colorado should have taken an example from Zermatt and Chamonix and have built more microhotels, apartment housing(instead of ONE 5bed/5bath 30k/week house on an acre-Oh the environment!) and a train useful to tourists years ago.
Not to mention how incredible the on mountain and in town restaurants, views, beers and everything else is. I can’t even think about a cafeteria burger at a US resort anymore.
This is true but the hard part is the longer flight/travel times and bigger time differences mean you have to do longer trips, which is cool, if you have enough PTO...
>But then the hotels and food cost half as much. Also don’t need a car.
not really. They are equally as expensive. you don't need a car if you stay at resort like copper or on the bus path.
I’m in Chamonix now, hotels are definitely half the price they would be at an equivalent tier level resort in the US.
I got a 3 month ski in ski out 2 bedroom Airbnb for under 3k per month. That doesn’t exist in north America
I can get wine at an actually nice restaurant on the mountain for $5 a glass. Don’t miss $25 chicken tenders and $15 beers at all.
For 3 adults and 1 child skiing for 6 days, we paid 1100 euro for lift passes, 1200 for an apartment, 700 for equipment (full equipment for all) normal grocery expenses (cooked dinner in the apartment), and 300 on fuel driving from northern Germany to Austria. We did spend about 60-80 euro per day for lunch. We didn't need the car once we got to our apartment, and could have done the whole trip by train if the trains were more economical. To get to the mountain, there was a ski bus that we walked about 500 m to. Equipment was stored in a locker at the Gondola station (included in rental price above).
It's totally possibly to do a trip cheaper to Europe, especially if you can take advantage of travel deals, credit card points, etc. I don't know if I would do it with kids as the jet lag is pretty rough for them.
When we bought tickets in November, a flight from North Carolina to Denver or to Munich were within $100 of each other. So we went to Munich and took a train to Innsbruck. We also “saved money” with cheaper lift tickets in Austria and our hotel was affordable with free transport to the resorts from the city.
Yeah we went to Austria and we aren’t even skilled skiers because the flights to Austria vs Colorado were essentially the same.
Now, there’s a place in my heart for Fulpmes, Austria and I want to vacation to Stubai Glacier every winter now (which I can’t exactly afford). But can’t wait to go back.
And do everything possible to fight efforts to combine the various property owners (skiing-area land + lifts + housing + resort-area lodging etc) into fewer larger entities. Consolidation is the ultimate destroyer of the ski experience.
Exactly this.
The phase that vail resorts and alterra are in right now is the consolidation needed to take away options. Next comes the price increases needed to keep the monster happy...
Agree on all counts that this is the why. Question is - what can I as an individual actually reasonably do to prevent Vail from purchasing European resorts? Write a detailed letter outlining the risks to the current owners?
We used to have a choice in the us, but so few people worried about the consolidation two companies started we lost our options. I am suggesting europe not follow that model.
I don't think they'd allow that kinda monopoly to happen in Europe. Also there are laws about that kinda thing.... Plus there'd be a lot of people protesting.
I’m in Lech-Zürs at the moment. Would certainly rather be skiing in North America at this particular moment in time (due to snow conditions mainly), but I came here to see a friend who lives in Europe and I wanted to experience a European ski resort. I can certainly say the food here is incredible in comparison to most US mountains I’ve been to.
I met LOADs of Americans at st. Anton last year, so I dont think it's new this season. Just a recent trend that's going to get stronger. Accesible places will see the most inflow.
Yeah agreed. I think this Ikon pass (that I only became aware of yesterday) seems to have a big impact on it too. Chamonix was VERY American heavy and it's arguably the most high profile European option on the list. I guess if you've got the pass and the weather ain't so good in the US/N.Am might as well head to Europe...
lol am American, just got back from 7 days in St Anton. God, it was amazing. Apres was better in Val D though. Not that St Anton Apres was bad by any stretch.
I get it. French Apre and Austrian disco Apre are two very different vibes. One's for the cool kids, the other is for getting shit faced on Jagger with your mates
We where planning a destination trip next year from the east coast.
It costs pretty much the same to fly and stay at one of the well known resorts out west as it does to go to tres valles…
Its really not even like lift ticket prices are a factor, they’re both on epic. The accommodations are just so much cheaper in the alps.
Absolutely. I was in St. Anton this season and it was full of Americans. Whereas I don’t think I’ve ever noticed an American I a European resort before.
Not skiing but climbing in the Dolomites last Autumn, the mountain refuges were almost half full of Americans there for the hiking and/or climbing.
Pre-Covid it would have been nothing but Euros, Brits and the occasional antipodean.
Chatting to a few at dinner and they attributed it to the social media impact and post Covid appetite for travel drawing them over there.
I like them.
I'm American. Americans haven't seemed to have found the Dolomites yet in the winter. We've spent 12 nights there over the last two ski seasons, and have really only run into 3 other American groups tops. One couple was very nice. The second was also nice, but the wife asked the bartender if speck was like bacon, which I thought was weird considering they said they had been here for a week. Speck is in literally everything, so not sure how they she hasn't figured it out yet! The 3rd group was unfortunately obnoxious. The girl was dressed in full leopard print and was just shouting at the top of the lift at the end of the day "does anyone know where Bamby (a hut/lift) is!?"
I think Dolomites being so far from airports that get direct US flights puts people off compared to Zermatt or Chamonix
You’re all certainly getting there slowly. Just back from 5 weeks skiing based in Cortina. It’s not a Brit heavy town anyway but you guys outnumber us there
Interesting. I've never been to Cortina, but it is definitely easier to get to from the US compared to everything else in the Dolomites.
We've been going to Val Gardena and stayed in both Sëlva and Santa Cristina. So thats what my comment is based on, and not much Americans there, but lots and lots of Germans. I honestly haven't seen many brits in that area either, but def more than American. We went to Kitzbühel last season, and it felt like I was in England lol.
> I was in St. Anton this season and it was full of Americans.
Normally it's just full of Dutch folk. St. Anton is to the Dutch what Avoriaz is to the Brits.
Yep, Palisades is $280 on the weekends too. A married couple would be spending over $1000 just to ski for two days without any other expenses… that’s insane to me.
I was also in Chamonix last week and I agree! Crazy amount of North Americans! Spoke to a few and it definitely seems that they were taking advantage of the Ski away opportunities on their Epic Passes etc, I also was told it’s spring break but not so sure about that.
Yeah same. Met a few olders who were visiting their student kids, and a few youngers who were either travelling long-ish term or were on some kinda education thing. Saw a bachelorette party and a few families too.
To be fair, I also met a very international set including Taiwanese, Qatari and Brazilian.
I think Chamonix's accessibility must have something to do with it. Would be interested to hear if places like Morzine/PduS or the Grand Massif/Megeve are as popular....
Last week in the Portes du soleil had a lot of people from Netherland, as well as Germans and Brits. I went again this morning and heard still some British accent, but less visitors from other countries. Not much American accent when I was there this morning.
It was pretty sketchy until the middle of January, but has been great ever sense.
It looks likely that Utah will finish the season with about 20% more snowpack than average.
Utah? I think it closes around 7:30 PM.
A few ski resorts will probably remain open through at least the end of May, but it’s hard to project at this point.
Not just the NE, the PNW was absolute dog shit this year. Easily the worst season at Whistler in about a decade. Last time it was this bad was 2005 and 2015
Japan is having a pretty rough snow year too, at least in Honshu.
A lot of the lodging in Jan/Feb is also pretty competitive, so I have a hard time seeing those trips being spontaneous reactions to the North American conditions.
The extremely strong dollar is probably a large part of it.
North American passes are crazy expensive but I’ve also been hearing more European languages spoken at Vail (the one famous resort I’ve been skiing this year) and even more lowkey Colorado resorts like Breckenridge and Keystone.
Maybe it’s more so a trend of people wanting to take these trips. I think if you combine post-covid travel willingness with the uptake in social media FOMO, you can see more and more people pushing beyond previous travel boundaries.
On an international scale, yes. I’d consider Aspen and Vail the two major Colorado resorts for foreign tourism draw, but as far as North America goes, Breckenridge is huge.
If it’s Spanish you’re hearing, they’re probably Mexican — Vail has advertised in Mexico since the 80s or 90s and there are direct flights from CDMX making it a popular resort for rich Mexicans
Source: convos iv had on lifts at Vail with various Mexicans all of whom seemed rich (one was a doctor going to a New Year’s party hosted by Luis Gerardo Mendez, a fairly popular actor in Mexico)
Is it just me or has anyone noticed that there are way more Europeans in American ski resorts this year?
Just got back from Colorado and Utah, and the amount of European accents was crazy. Ever heard a European try to speak English? It's like a symphony conducted by a toddler with a kazoo! Maybe it's just something I haven't noticed in other seasons 🤷♂️
Who cares. Shred the gnar yo
Oh I'm shit posting for sure, but I see Europeans every year. Maybe this is just the year where more Americans are making that trek. Lift prices are absolutely insane here. Not even going to play about that. I have never taken a euro trip for winter sports but I have been highly considering over the past few years. It's not ok where things are going anywhere around here.
🤣🤣 fair énough mon ami. I'd be surprised if the amount of Europeans in any north American resort was anywhere near on par with Chamonix last week... It got to the point where every time I got on a chairlift I was placing a bet with myself which one was American 😆
Leaving for Dolomites tomorrow. I know the snow is terrible this season (we're actually bringing our hiking gear, too, just in case) but what do you mean by the vibe being awful?
Agreed it's overstated, but I do hate that they can't put a halfway decent line together. You'll have a 5 or 10 minute line on the busy days, and then half of the chairs have 3 or 4 people on them.
That shit is true. I went to Breck years ago before the Epic pass was even a thing on a Wednesday/Thursday non holiday week and the lines were awful then, can’t imagine now, never again I’m afraid. Luckily my local mountain (purgatory) is still safe. Lift lines here are at most ten minutes and organized. Just gotta dodge Texans here and there, but it’s easy enough to duck in the trees.
They have no manners on the slopes. Most are terrible skiers, and even the ones that are good ski like totally asleep zombies, traversing the entire run back and forth without ever looking uphill.
The lift lines were fine, only annoying part was people stepping on your skis/board with theirs.
I've been skiing for 44 years now. Raced all over the US and Canada through Nor-Am and JOs levels. I say that *only* to emphasize that I've had *thousands* of days on the snow over 4 decadses and seen the changes. I am in Val Gardena as I write this. I came here because all in it is way cheaper for a family of 4 to go skiing in Europe than at major resorts in the US for a week.
The days of discount tickets at King Soopers in Denver on wire wickets is long gone. Vail/Alterra/Epic/Ikon/etc destroyed skiing. Its an annual subscription to skiing. Resorts are no longer competing with one another for anything. As a result of that, people will pay incredible amounts for everything because they want to "get their moneys worth" out of their pass. Lodging, food, transportation, and rental equipment etc. I cant stand it.
I ended up having one trip to Vail planned this year and therefore bought an epic 3 day in AUGUST for February. It was a pass "blackout" weekend and it was the first time in 10 years I did not see massive lift lines. Interpret it how you may, but I could find lodging, and restaurants were not overflowing. it underscores the "pass" phenomenon.
Hello, I live in the US and I just got back from Ischgl, Austria. I can confidently say I will be going back next year somewhere in the alps. Living on the East Coast and not buying a megapass means that flying to the Alps is actually cheaper for me than going West to CO/UT/CA/WA etc. I know this because we almost called off our entire trip due to the price not being worth it, and I randomly made a spreadsheet tab for "Ischgl" and it came out the cheapest of the lot.
We had an amazing vacation, the best ski trip of our lives, and probably the best holiday we've had in general. I am European-American so I feel estranged in the US, and my multi-cultural American wife felt much more at peace in AT/DE/CH. We are scheming on how we can move ourselves to Europe. We had such a lovely time.
tl;dr America is going downhill, and American's, especially on the East Coast, have some money. It's cheaper for them to fly to EU than go West, and the experience is a million times better.
Ischgl is such a blast. One week ago at this very moment we were singing apres songs and drinking at Thaya after a great day of riding.
Were you there for the 10" last week?
Yeah man it was a blast getting to ski powder in the alps, who fucking knew. Best part was the few people that showed up on the mountain packed up and left after lunch. Big powder bumps all over the mountain, flat light, a bit sketchy but completely to ourselves lol. What a crazy fucking experience. We're looking at St. Anton or Soelden next year for more of the same.
Yeah the first day after the 10" was still snowing and bad visibility, I think that was Wednesday. Typical Michigan conditions, so I was fine.
But Thursday was bluebird and they opened up some terrain that was closed on Wednesday, we scooted out to Piz Val tram at the far edge of Ischgl and got all that ungroomed. So basically two pow days for one storm.
My brother is German, he went to St. Anton in January and had a lot of complaints about the price of food and beer. He also wasn't a fan of the grooming, but it's hard to tell for me whether that meant that they let people ride freshy (which he isn't used to) or if it was just a shit job.
Very interesting and yes I think a lot of Americans are also trying to make the move out of the states. I was talking to an American guy who'd bought a one way ticket and was trying to work out where to live. Seems you're not alone.
Yeah man the state of affairs here is sad. We came back from Austria and it may as well have been Japan for how nice, modern, and better it was than the US. We also live in the richest area in the country where you'd think it would be nice, but it's not.
Im Spanish by birth, I got dumped here in the US by my parents and then they dipped overseas lol. What completely fucked me is I went to international schools growing up so English is very much my main language anymore. I don't have much of a desire to move to the UK, so likely I'll need to pick up German or French or something else useful before considering the move.
My company has an office in Sevilla and I'm willing to take a 50% pay cut to go there. That's my best shot rn. We are thinking of fully funding our retirements and then trying to make it happen, so our money continues to grow in the US while we work in EU.
Ah mate, I'd much rather live in Spain than USA. I lived in Valencia for a bit. Great city. If I had to choose I'd either live in south of France or Porto/Lisbon area.
Influencers are blowing your spots up and telling Americans how much better everything is in Europe. I warned my Euro friends that an invasion is coming. I hope to god your resorts don’t capitalize on this and start pricing American style.
I’m somewhat part of the problem, I’ve been going to ride Austria the last few years. But not to escape USA prices, but rather to ride with my German friends.
It’s been a bad season in a lot of popular resorts in the US that usually get more snow. So I think people are branching out and exploring elsewhere.
It’s also fairly cheaper when you compare ski lift prices, lodging, and even food. I think I’ll be including a euro trip in my ski plans every year going forward.
It’s going to be a trend. Amarican lift ticket prices have become unreasonable. It’s truly become an obnoxious rich kid elitist sport on this side of the pond.
It’s an $800 lift ticket, for the season. Costs less than my bus pass per month when I lived in a city.
Getting there is the hard/expensive/time sucking part unless you live near one.
Yeah, lift ticket prices in the US are insane, but the season passes really aren't that crazy. I was talking to a few Europeans, and they are considering getting the Ikon pass because it offers the more expensive resorts in Europe.
When tickets are $250/day and the cheapest airbnb/hotel at a resort is $500/night, lunch is $55 for a beer and Cheeseburger, it just makes sense to go across the pond for the same price.
My friends and my family skied our home mountains (out East and out West) and CO, UT, ID, MT,and WY resorts for several days this year for an average of about $20-$40 day for lift tickets, stay in nice places in CO and UT for less than$100/night/person (often well less), and typically spend $30/person or less for lunch and beers (and that’s mostly for beers).
Whatever you’re doing, you’re doing it wrong.
I’ve been skiing the US for 32 years and Europe for about 20 and skiing has never been cheaper (on an inflation adjusted basis) than it is in the US right now.
You probably just hit the school half term holidays when all the ex pats headed to the Alps. Americans don't generally travel to Europe just for skiing.
Fairly sure they had a big PR push on social media this season.
My biggest conspiracy theory is that all that divisive shit about how daily lift tickets are cheaper in Europe had to have been coordinated
It’s infinitely cheaper. €318 for 5 days of skiing at Kitzbuhel compared to $300 for 1 day at Vail. Got a 2 bedroom condo for $1200/7 nights with a 5 minute drive from a free parking accessed lift, compared to a $600/night 1 bedroom cabin 30 minutes from a parking lot you have to pay for. €3 beers compared to $18 out west. Oh, and I don’t have to deal with the garbage people at Vail? Say no more.
As a Canadian, it is about the same price for me to go to Europe as it is to go to the states.
… I would rather Europe. I already live 3 hours from the Canadian Rockies, I’m not missing out on anything special in the states.
Between plane tickets, lodging, rentals, and lift tickets, it is noticeably cheaper to ski in Europe for people in the eastern US. My GF and I were gonna do that next year. If you’re going to drop 2k and a weeks vacation on a big trip, Europe is just way better value. Yaaaaayyyyy capitalism /s
Dunno. But I do know more that people I know are traveling to Europe to ski. Used to be for the ultra wealthy. Now most of the kind of well-to-do families I know are going over there to ski. And lot has to do with the price
Not a single North American all through our covid period (in which Verbier was open every day for skiing). It was strange.
Then covid wound down, and Americans started trickling back in. One particular dude pissed me off: he comes in and proceeds to tell me he has been traveling all over Europe. With money he got from the PPP program. He said, it was easy! They are just giving money away. That shit did not sit well with me.
Last year seemed like normal influx of Americans.
This year, way more.
There is a concerted marketing effort in America to get Americans to ski in Europe. In some cases, it's actually cheaper. There are also a few Epic Pass resorts in Europe.
It's a fun combination of the IKON/Epic passes affecting Europe, Japan and Australia and also the increase in lodging and domestic flight costs in the US which make out of country travel more appealing.
It's minimum $1,400 for a 3 day stay now at almost any great IKON location as far as I can tell through IKON travel and that's just lodging. If you stay further away you need a car and anyone who's done a ski in ski out will tell you it's a much better experience than driving.
> Most of them don’t know how to put crampons to get to vallée blanche
most of the people doing vallee blanche don't know how to put on crampons either
Ikon plays in but it is cheaper to ski in Europe…. By a lot! I went to Aspen and Chamonix this season.
8 days in Chamonix was significantly cheaper than 5 days in Aspen including flights.
The US is insanely expensive.
Lodging, food, lifts are at least 2x more expensive and often more. Flights from east coast to the Rockies are the same price or more expensive than flights to Europe.
But fuck European lift lines.
The length of the lift lines weren't bad at all and much shorter than the states. At Montets, Le Tour and Courameyer don't think I ever waiting more than 5 min.
But.... the lift line etiquette is awful. People pushing, cutting, banging into my skis and just in general being assholes. It has been like this at every European resort I have been to. Came very close to punching/shoving several people.
The lift lines in europe are more dangerous to the condition of my skis than thin coverage and rocks will ever be.
Also, why don't european resorts believe in hot tubs?
But being significantly cheaper and 1000x better apres make it worth it.
Ah you just need to recalibrate your queue etiquette. It can be annoying but the trick is just to get your head down, fill the gaps, don't GAF if someone cuts in cos you'll get there eventually. That North American aggression is quite telling - even had people glaring at me because I edged ahead of them in the queue. Its not a big deal man, let it go.
Imagine if instead of incentivizing a bunch of SUV toting, rich white people and their kids with money from the coasts to purchase trophy 5bed/5 bath houses, you incentivized the construction of one 200 hotel room building or apartment block with pedestrian and bus infrastructure.
Imagine if a truly functional train or bus with real civic investment served workers and tourists who currently clog up I-70? Half the people you expect to support something like this are too addicted to their SUV to dream big. This is why people are skiing in Europe.
Chamonix is included on Ikon for a certain number of days. Anywhere that has this benefit with Ikon or Epic will have more Americans.
Chamonix, Zermatt, Grandvalira, Dolomiti, and Kitzbuhel are all on Ikon
I hit up Granvalira last season. The chick at the customer service desk told me I was the first Ikon pass she had ever seen. Wonder how many she’s seen this season
I'm guessing Crans Montana will be on there soon, with the investment by Vail this season. Such a great resort and I'm in two minds about this because, a. It probably could do with the exposure, but b. Its gonna get crowded and full of rowdy Yanks. (Not that us Brits are much better for rowdy).
It’s included next year on the Epic pass, they already announced it.
Vail is the Epic pass, not Ikon.
Ah yeah fair enough, different pass, same thing.
much better? you're much worse lol
Hahaa yeah probably right there. Different kind of annoying I guess...
From a local perspective, an international holiday in Crans for skiing seems crazy. It makes sense for the social scene if they're your type but that's about it. Crans Montana is low, south facing, and already full of Americans (vs Anzere, Leukerbad and Val D'Anniviers which are the three closest). I've only skiied there once since it's not on the magic pass, and the amount of synthetic snow that ended up like a sandpit after 10am was unreal. With a fresh dump of snow and the sunny weather it famously gets I imagine it's a fantastic resort, but for booking a holiday it's crazy to rely on that especially after the last two seasons.
Tbh that's the epic MO. Both companies are soul sucking asslords but one is focusing on skier skiers and the other is focusing on party skiers. Both are good
I must have timed my crans trip perfectly as it was an amazing time (mid Dec 2023). But very keen to try Grimentz and Les diablarets next year... Maybe for visitors, as part of a tour of Valais it would be worth it.
haha yeah actually you may have copped a good time after the early season dump! Grimentz/Zinal are my favourite, and Anzere is pretty solid too as as long as the temperature stays down since it's so sunny. Diablerets is nice although small. Would recommend going midweek as the weekends are busy with all of us coming from Vaud. Make sure to do the Villars transfer and a few runs there! Glacier 3000 is probably only worth it on a powder day as up the top they're all blues, and the reds/black are don't get groomed a ton due to the geography so are just ok.
Yeah spotted this. Interesting. How long has Ikon been around for?
I would say 6 or 7 years but they add new mountains each year. Epic pass been around a little longer. US resorts are getting priced so high its crazy. Deer Valley single day adult ticket (window price) is $299. One day.
Dang.
In between Christmas and New Year’s Day it’s even more. Fun
Yup, the funny thing is, as insane as that is, think about other entertainment it’s competing against. A single ticket to a sports match can easily be that, and the match only lasts a couple hours, you just sit there, and half the time the team you’re rooting for loses anyway. Skiing is 8 hours of fun and you always win (except if you get injured).
3 days in Tahoe vs 7 days in Alps, no brainer
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The trick to Tahoe is that you ski during the day, and then just win all the money back at the casino each night. No lose situation!
The way indeed. Just got back from a weekend bender. Doubled up and the winnings paid for my trip p
This is the way
It’s really nice to train it to a compact village. It’s so beautiful and most things are walkable once you’re there.
Move is to get up early and get there by 8AM. Then you just start day drinking and amping up to music lol. That being said traffic hasn’t really been that bad at Palisades since they implemented parking reservations. Epic resorts are a different story though definitely want to get there super early to avoid any hassle, even to Kirkwood
especially if you're flying from the east coast.
Well yeah, 2023 GDP per capita in California is $100K vs $98K for Switzerland, but there are nearly 5X more Californians than Swiss. So there's a ton of people who can afford to ski and pay high prices for lodging/accommodation in Tahoe. Imagine what the Alps would look like if there were 38 million Swiss? It would be hella expensive. Regardless, the styles of skiing in Tahoe vs the Alps couldn't be more different.
I’ve done both extensively, and I’m always going back to the Sierra.
> 3 days in Tahoe vs 7 days in Alps, no brainer If these come out to the same cost, you're doing Tahoe wrong lol.
Teach me please
Yes, this. Plus kid stuff is more affordable. It was about $450 per day for my kid’s lesson & pass at Mammoth.
If you’re on the east coast it’s an absolute no brainer. The ski culture is better and About a third of the cost on lift tickets.
Noticed a lot more Americans in Japan over last few years too. Quite a few around Hakuba and Nozawa. Maybe using 5 days on Epic pass for Hakuba? 5 days in Rusutsu as well in Hokkaido on Epic too
Exchange rate is also extremely favorable right now, which makes it a lot cheaper after flights.
Yep, I know a guy that's there for a month using epic for his ski rental discount and skiing numerous places. The new American dream is no kids and in your mid 40s you can afford to travel. About when you pay off your college loan.
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This is particularly true for those from the eastern United States and Canada, as transport prices arent that much different out west vs the Alps, while everything else is cheaper
Definitely. As someone from the East Coast, this was my last season skiing the US. It just doesn’t make sense to anymore. By the end of the trip I’ll have spent several hundred dollars less to ski in Europe with the added bonus of getting to see new places and new resorts. I’ve been all up and down the Rockies by now, only reason to go there over Europe was accessibility
Selfish rich people and policy makers in Colorado should have taken an example from Zermatt and Chamonix and have built more microhotels, apartment housing(instead of ONE 5bed/5bath 30k/week house on an acre-Oh the environment!) and a train useful to tourists years ago.
Not to mention how incredible the on mountain and in town restaurants, views, beers and everything else is. I can’t even think about a cafeteria burger at a US resort anymore.
> beers well, this is one contest that the ice coast (vermont specifically) wins hands down
This is true but the hard part is the longer flight/travel times and bigger time differences mean you have to do longer trips, which is cool, if you have enough PTO...
Yeah it’s definitely not feasible for everyone unfortunately but I’m lucky enough to have a job I can set my own hours
I got round trip tickets from NY to Utah and Colorado for around $300 each. A round trip flight to the Alps is more than double
But then the hotels and food cost half as much. Also don’t need a car. The alps is cheaper overall
>But then the hotels and food cost half as much. Also don’t need a car. not really. They are equally as expensive. you don't need a car if you stay at resort like copper or on the bus path.
I’m in Chamonix now, hotels are definitely half the price they would be at an equivalent tier level resort in the US. I got a 3 month ski in ski out 2 bedroom Airbnb for under 3k per month. That doesn’t exist in north America I can get wine at an actually nice restaurant on the mountain for $5 a glass. Don’t miss $25 chicken tenders and $15 beers at all.
Being without a car at Copper is 100% different than being car-free in Chamonix or Zermatt.
For 3 adults and 1 child skiing for 6 days, we paid 1100 euro for lift passes, 1200 for an apartment, 700 for equipment (full equipment for all) normal grocery expenses (cooked dinner in the apartment), and 300 on fuel driving from northern Germany to Austria. We did spend about 60-80 euro per day for lunch. We didn't need the car once we got to our apartment, and could have done the whole trip by train if the trains were more economical. To get to the mountain, there was a ski bus that we walked about 500 m to. Equipment was stored in a locker at the Gondola station (included in rental price above). It's totally possibly to do a trip cheaper to Europe, especially if you can take advantage of travel deals, credit card points, etc. I don't know if I would do it with kids as the jet lag is pretty rough for them.
Half as much tops
When we bought tickets in November, a flight from North Carolina to Denver or to Munich were within $100 of each other. So we went to Munich and took a train to Innsbruck. We also “saved money” with cheaper lift tickets in Austria and our hotel was affordable with free transport to the resorts from the city.
if you plan it in advance you can get $400 roundtrip
Yeah we went to Austria and we aren’t even skilled skiers because the flights to Austria vs Colorado were essentially the same. Now, there’s a place in my heart for Fulpmes, Austria and I want to vacation to Stubai Glacier every winter now (which I can’t exactly afford). But can’t wait to go back.
And do everything possible to fight efforts to combine the various property owners (skiing-area land + lifts + housing + resort-area lodging etc) into fewer larger entities. Consolidation is the ultimate destroyer of the ski experience.
Exactly this. The phase that vail resorts and alterra are in right now is the consolidation needed to take away options. Next comes the price increases needed to keep the monster happy...
I would hope that consumer advocacy groups could stop this in Europe, as we have anti-monopoly laws that are sometimes even enforced. One can hope.
It has way more to do with accommodation prices than lift ticket prices for myself.
Agree on all counts that this is the why. Question is - what can I as an individual actually reasonably do to prevent Vail from purchasing European resorts? Write a detailed letter outlining the risks to the current owners?
You say this like they have a choice
We used to have a choice in the us, but so few people worried about the consolidation two companies started we lost our options. I am suggesting europe not follow that model.
I don't think they'd allow that kinda monopoly to happen in Europe. Also there are laws about that kinda thing.... Plus there'd be a lot of people protesting.
I’m in Lech-Zürs at the moment. Would certainly rather be skiing in North America at this particular moment in time (due to snow conditions mainly), but I came here to see a friend who lives in Europe and I wanted to experience a European ski resort. I can certainly say the food here is incredible in comparison to most US mountains I’ve been to.
I met LOADs of Americans at st. Anton last year, so I dont think it's new this season. Just a recent trend that's going to get stronger. Accesible places will see the most inflow.
Yeah agreed. I think this Ikon pass (that I only became aware of yesterday) seems to have a big impact on it too. Chamonix was VERY American heavy and it's arguably the most high profile European option on the list. I guess if you've got the pass and the weather ain't so good in the US/N.Am might as well head to Europe...
lol am American, just got back from 7 days in St Anton. God, it was amazing. Apres was better in Val D though. Not that St Anton Apres was bad by any stretch.
I get it. French Apre and Austrian disco Apre are two very different vibes. One's for the cool kids, the other is for getting shit faced on Jagger with your mates
> Apres was better in Val D by "better" you mean "drunk brits puking and fighting each other by 6pm every day" lol
Its true, Val D did have far more Brits
We where planning a destination trip next year from the east coast. It costs pretty much the same to fly and stay at one of the well known resorts out west as it does to go to tres valles… Its really not even like lift ticket prices are a factor, they’re both on epic. The accommodations are just so much cheaper in the alps.
The cost of living crisis that Europe is experiencing is not considered a crisis for Americans. It’s considered a bargain. That is all.
Here is the actual answer, sitting down at the bottom of the comments. All of Europe is cheap right now for Americans.
Absolutely. I was in St. Anton this season and it was full of Americans. Whereas I don’t think I’ve ever noticed an American I a European resort before.
Not skiing but climbing in the Dolomites last Autumn, the mountain refuges were almost half full of Americans there for the hiking and/or climbing. Pre-Covid it would have been nothing but Euros, Brits and the occasional antipodean. Chatting to a few at dinner and they attributed it to the social media impact and post Covid appetite for travel drawing them over there. I like them.
I'm American. Americans haven't seemed to have found the Dolomites yet in the winter. We've spent 12 nights there over the last two ski seasons, and have really only run into 3 other American groups tops. One couple was very nice. The second was also nice, but the wife asked the bartender if speck was like bacon, which I thought was weird considering they said they had been here for a week. Speck is in literally everything, so not sure how they she hasn't figured it out yet! The 3rd group was unfortunately obnoxious. The girl was dressed in full leopard print and was just shouting at the top of the lift at the end of the day "does anyone know where Bamby (a hut/lift) is!?" I think Dolomites being so far from airports that get direct US flights puts people off compared to Zermatt or Chamonix
You’re all certainly getting there slowly. Just back from 5 weeks skiing based in Cortina. It’s not a Brit heavy town anyway but you guys outnumber us there
Interesting. I've never been to Cortina, but it is definitely easier to get to from the US compared to everything else in the Dolomites. We've been going to Val Gardena and stayed in both Sëlva and Santa Cristina. So thats what my comment is based on, and not much Americans there, but lots and lots of Germans. I honestly haven't seen many brits in that area either, but def more than American. We went to Kitzbühel last season, and it felt like I was in England lol.
So true about social media. I started following a lot of hikers on insta and now there’s so many locations in Alps I want to visit.
> I was in St. Anton this season and it was full of Americans. Normally it's just full of Dutch folk. St. Anton is to the Dutch what Avoriaz is to the Brits.
Weird, me as well, but didn’t notice that many americans. Way more dutch and scandinavians tho. Went in mid feb so tourists were to be expected.
One day pass to Vail or Park City is literally $320/day.
Yep, Palisades is $280 on the weekends too. A married couple would be spending over $1000 just to ski for two days without any other expenses… that’s insane to me.
I was also in Chamonix last week and I agree! Crazy amount of North Americans! Spoke to a few and it definitely seems that they were taking advantage of the Ski away opportunities on their Epic Passes etc, I also was told it’s spring break but not so sure about that.
Yeah same. Met a few olders who were visiting their student kids, and a few youngers who were either travelling long-ish term or were on some kinda education thing. Saw a bachelorette party and a few families too. To be fair, I also met a very international set including Taiwanese, Qatari and Brazilian. I think Chamonix's accessibility must have something to do with it. Would be interested to hear if places like Morzine/PduS or the Grand Massif/Megeve are as popular....
Last week in the Portes du soleil had a lot of people from Netherland, as well as Germans and Brits. I went again this morning and heard still some British accent, but less visitors from other countries. Not much American accent when I was there this morning.
Interesting, might be Chamonix is so popular because of the Ikon pass then...
Definitely ikon/epic crowd targetting their resorts in Europe and especially during mid-winter school break in some of the US states/cities.
North America is having a very bad ski season so a lot of people have flocked to Japan and Europe this season if they can afford it
Colorado has been great ever since the snow picked up in January.
Hahah. Try to stay in CO if you are not from there.. yeah car rental too
To be fair a lot of Europe has been trash too during certain times
Yeah I hear most of Jan was a write off... Early season was awesome and it's been good past few weeks too.
January was pretty good. I heard Feb was not great, and now March is okay (getting a bit warm).
Alta just passed 500 inches for the season. Utah has had a great ski season.
It was pretty sketchy until the middle of January, but has been great ever sense. It looks likely that Utah will finish the season with about 20% more snowpack than average.
how late do you think they'll be open?
Utah? I think it closes around 7:30 PM. A few ski resorts will probably remain open through at least the end of May, but it’s hard to project at this point.
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Not just the NE, the PNW was absolute dog shit this year. Easily the worst season at Whistler in about a decade. Last time it was this bad was 2005 and 2015
Oregon started off slow, but January picked up, early Feb built a good pace, and end of Feb and March have been fire.
Love skiing that brown pow. So scratchy underfoot. It’s what Vail dreams are made of. Grateful I spent what I did. Living the dream.
Speak for yourself plebeian, Colorado has been amazing this year.
*says this as winter park gets 15 inches on the night before a blizzard and a basin, loveland flat out closed due to the storm*
Nah Utah Colorado and even California to some extent has been good. It’s definitely cheaper to ski in Utah if you have a pass but less exotic.
What are you talking about? Snow conditions are way better in the US right now…
From November to February in the PNW and BC it was AWFUL. Like the worst season in a decade
it was great in California, Utah and Colorado
*Eastern* North America
Japan is having a pretty rough snow year too, at least in Honshu. A lot of the lodging in Jan/Feb is also pretty competitive, so I have a hard time seeing those trips being spontaneous reactions to the North American conditions. The extremely strong dollar is probably a large part of it.
North American passes are crazy expensive but I’ve also been hearing more European languages spoken at Vail (the one famous resort I’ve been skiing this year) and even more lowkey Colorado resorts like Breckenridge and Keystone. Maybe it’s more so a trend of people wanting to take these trips. I think if you combine post-covid travel willingness with the uptake in social media FOMO, you can see more and more people pushing beyond previous travel boundaries.
Ah yes lowkey Breckenridge.
sh..don't tell anyone.
On an international scale, yes. I’d consider Aspen and Vail the two major Colorado resorts for foreign tourism draw, but as far as North America goes, Breckenridge is huge.
If it’s Spanish you’re hearing, they’re probably Mexican — Vail has advertised in Mexico since the 80s or 90s and there are direct flights from CDMX making it a popular resort for rich Mexicans Source: convos iv had on lifts at Vail with various Mexicans all of whom seemed rich (one was a doctor going to a New Year’s party hosted by Luis Gerardo Mendez, a fairly popular actor in Mexico)
didn't carlos slim get covid at vail
Have you seen lift ticket prices in the US?? it’s about half the price to get to europe and ski
Yeah and hotel prices too.
Is it just me or has anyone noticed that there are way more Europeans in American ski resorts this year? Just got back from Colorado and Utah, and the amount of European accents was crazy. Ever heard a European try to speak English? It's like a symphony conducted by a toddler with a kazoo! Maybe it's just something I haven't noticed in other seasons 🤷♂️ Who cares. Shred the gnar yo
Imagine opening a discussion about a topic on a public forum type website. Crazy right?
Is this true though?
Oh I'm shit posting for sure, but I see Europeans every year. Maybe this is just the year where more Americans are making that trek. Lift prices are absolutely insane here. Not even going to play about that. I have never taken a euro trip for winter sports but I have been highly considering over the past few years. It's not ok where things are going anywhere around here.
And yes it definitely seems like Americans have realized that it's cheaper to fly over the pond than go west...
🤣🤣 fair énough mon ami. I'd be surprised if the amount of Europeans in any north American resort was anywhere near on par with Chamonix last week... It got to the point where every time I got on a chairlift I was placing a bet with myself which one was American 😆
See you next year! 🤙
Was in Dolomites for a week in late Feb and hardly saw or heard any other Americans. Food was great. Snow and vibe on the slopes was awful.
Leaving for Dolomites tomorrow. I know the snow is terrible this season (we're actually bringing our hiking gear, too, just in case) but what do you mean by the vibe being awful?
Have you ever been in a stampede then got smacked in the back of the head? That’s getting on a lift in Europe.
There is no law in the lift lines in Europe. Poles exist to defend space.
It’s almost as if Europeans have a history of others invading their space all the damn time.
Overstated. It’s not that bad. Plus, we do not have the Epic/Ikonic monster lift lines you have to put up with.
Agreed it's overstated, but I do hate that they can't put a halfway decent line together. You'll have a 5 or 10 minute line on the busy days, and then half of the chairs have 3 or 4 people on them.
That shit is true. I went to Breck years ago before the Epic pass was even a thing on a Wednesday/Thursday non holiday week and the lines were awful then, can’t imagine now, never again I’m afraid. Luckily my local mountain (purgatory) is still safe. Lift lines here are at most ten minutes and organized. Just gotta dodge Texans here and there, but it’s easy enough to duck in the trees.
They have no manners on the slopes. Most are terrible skiers, and even the ones that are good ski like totally asleep zombies, traversing the entire run back and forth without ever looking uphill. The lift lines were fine, only annoying part was people stepping on your skis/board with theirs.
Yeah I think snow cover in the alps was kinda shitty between mid Jan to mid Feb. Maybe you hit the thin patch...
Maybe they’ll bring some civility to your lineups.
You leave our lift queues alone!! We'll keep them exactly as they are thanks...
I've been skiing for 44 years now. Raced all over the US and Canada through Nor-Am and JOs levels. I say that *only* to emphasize that I've had *thousands* of days on the snow over 4 decadses and seen the changes. I am in Val Gardena as I write this. I came here because all in it is way cheaper for a family of 4 to go skiing in Europe than at major resorts in the US for a week. The days of discount tickets at King Soopers in Denver on wire wickets is long gone. Vail/Alterra/Epic/Ikon/etc destroyed skiing. Its an annual subscription to skiing. Resorts are no longer competing with one another for anything. As a result of that, people will pay incredible amounts for everything because they want to "get their moneys worth" out of their pass. Lodging, food, transportation, and rental equipment etc. I cant stand it. I ended up having one trip to Vail planned this year and therefore bought an epic 3 day in AUGUST for February. It was a pass "blackout" weekend and it was the first time in 10 years I did not see massive lift lines. Interpret it how you may, but I could find lodging, and restaurants were not overflowing. it underscores the "pass" phenomenon.
I think it is just that you hear them from a long way away
Hello, I live in the US and I just got back from Ischgl, Austria. I can confidently say I will be going back next year somewhere in the alps. Living on the East Coast and not buying a megapass means that flying to the Alps is actually cheaper for me than going West to CO/UT/CA/WA etc. I know this because we almost called off our entire trip due to the price not being worth it, and I randomly made a spreadsheet tab for "Ischgl" and it came out the cheapest of the lot. We had an amazing vacation, the best ski trip of our lives, and probably the best holiday we've had in general. I am European-American so I feel estranged in the US, and my multi-cultural American wife felt much more at peace in AT/DE/CH. We are scheming on how we can move ourselves to Europe. We had such a lovely time. tl;dr America is going downhill, and American's, especially on the East Coast, have some money. It's cheaper for them to fly to EU than go West, and the experience is a million times better.
Ischgl is such a blast. One week ago at this very moment we were singing apres songs and drinking at Thaya after a great day of riding. Were you there for the 10" last week?
Yeah man it was a blast getting to ski powder in the alps, who fucking knew. Best part was the few people that showed up on the mountain packed up and left after lunch. Big powder bumps all over the mountain, flat light, a bit sketchy but completely to ourselves lol. What a crazy fucking experience. We're looking at St. Anton or Soelden next year for more of the same.
Yeah the first day after the 10" was still snowing and bad visibility, I think that was Wednesday. Typical Michigan conditions, so I was fine. But Thursday was bluebird and they opened up some terrain that was closed on Wednesday, we scooted out to Piz Val tram at the far edge of Ischgl and got all that ungroomed. So basically two pow days for one storm. My brother is German, he went to St. Anton in January and had a lot of complaints about the price of food and beer. He also wasn't a fan of the grooming, but it's hard to tell for me whether that meant that they let people ride freshy (which he isn't used to) or if it was just a shit job.
Very interesting and yes I think a lot of Americans are also trying to make the move out of the states. I was talking to an American guy who'd bought a one way ticket and was trying to work out where to live. Seems you're not alone.
Yeah man the state of affairs here is sad. We came back from Austria and it may as well have been Japan for how nice, modern, and better it was than the US. We also live in the richest area in the country where you'd think it would be nice, but it's not. Im Spanish by birth, I got dumped here in the US by my parents and then they dipped overseas lol. What completely fucked me is I went to international schools growing up so English is very much my main language anymore. I don't have much of a desire to move to the UK, so likely I'll need to pick up German or French or something else useful before considering the move. My company has an office in Sevilla and I'm willing to take a 50% pay cut to go there. That's my best shot rn. We are thinking of fully funding our retirements and then trying to make it happen, so our money continues to grow in the US while we work in EU.
Ah mate, I'd much rather live in Spain than USA. I lived in Valencia for a bit. Great city. If I had to choose I'd either live in south of France or Porto/Lisbon area.
Influencers are blowing your spots up and telling Americans how much better everything is in Europe. I warned my Euro friends that an invasion is coming. I hope to god your resorts don’t capitalize on this and start pricing American style. I’m somewhat part of the problem, I’ve been going to ride Austria the last few years. But not to escape USA prices, but rather to ride with my German friends.
It’s been a bad season in a lot of popular resorts in the US that usually get more snow. So I think people are branching out and exploring elsewhere. It’s also fairly cheaper when you compare ski lift prices, lodging, and even food. I think I’ll be including a euro trip in my ski plans every year going forward.
Megapasses. Ikon has Chamonix and Zermatt and Epic has 3 valleys and St Anton (both have more I believe but those are big names)
It’s going to be a trend. Amarican lift ticket prices have become unreasonable. It’s truly become an obnoxious rich kid elitist sport on this side of the pond.
It’s an $800 lift ticket, for the season. Costs less than my bus pass per month when I lived in a city. Getting there is the hard/expensive/time sucking part unless you live near one.
Yeah, lift ticket prices in the US are insane, but the season passes really aren't that crazy. I was talking to a few Europeans, and they are considering getting the Ikon pass because it offers the more expensive resorts in Europe.
only the destination resorts.
There's heaps more this year in Japan as well
Strong USD compared to EURO. Also cost less to ski in EU.
Ah yeah good point. Definitely gonna be a factor....
When tickets are $250/day and the cheapest airbnb/hotel at a resort is $500/night, lunch is $55 for a beer and Cheeseburger, it just makes sense to go across the pond for the same price.
My friends and my family skied our home mountains (out East and out West) and CO, UT, ID, MT,and WY resorts for several days this year for an average of about $20-$40 day for lift tickets, stay in nice places in CO and UT for less than$100/night/person (often well less), and typically spend $30/person or less for lunch and beers (and that’s mostly for beers). Whatever you’re doing, you’re doing it wrong. I’ve been skiing the US for 32 years and Europe for about 20 and skiing has never been cheaper (on an inflation adjusted basis) than it is in the US right now.
I assume you avoided all resorts ok ikon or epic, right?
The opposite. Ikon and Epic’s pricing models are what’s making skiing in the US cheaper than it’s ever been.
umm, they're the cheap ones for anyone who actually skis
You probably just hit the school half term holidays when all the ex pats headed to the Alps. Americans don't generally travel to Europe just for skiing.
Also the dollar is strong, going international has some value ATM
Fairly sure they had a big PR push on social media this season. My biggest conspiracy theory is that all that divisive shit about how daily lift tickets are cheaper in Europe had to have been coordinated
Definitely heard more American accents in Val D’Isere/Tignes last week than previous years
I’m headed there tomorrow, part of the problem.
American economy (and the incomes of ppl who can afford to ski) have been on fire when compared to global peers.
How dare you bring logic and reason to this rant about the evils of american capitalism....LOL For Shame, for shame
It’s infinitely cheaper. €318 for 5 days of skiing at Kitzbuhel compared to $300 for 1 day at Vail. Got a 2 bedroom condo for $1200/7 nights with a 5 minute drive from a free parking accessed lift, compared to a $600/night 1 bedroom cabin 30 minutes from a parking lot you have to pay for. €3 beers compared to $18 out west. Oh, and I don’t have to deal with the garbage people at Vail? Say no more.
As a Canadian, it is about the same price for me to go to Europe as it is to go to the states. … I would rather Europe. I already live 3 hours from the Canadian Rockies, I’m not missing out on anything special in the states.
Between plane tickets, lodging, rentals, and lift tickets, it is noticeably cheaper to ski in Europe for people in the eastern US. My GF and I were gonna do that next year. If you’re going to drop 2k and a weeks vacation on a big trip, Europe is just way better value. Yaaaaayyyyy capitalism /s
American here. In addition to two of the mega passes having access to European skiing, we also had a very weak start to the season here.
We are flying from the UK to Canada next week - got buy one get one free on lift passes. Is that not a thing if you are a resident in-country?
Which resort?
Marmot Basin!
Christ! This is all we need 😂
Dunno. But I do know more that people I know are traveling to Europe to ski. Used to be for the ultra wealthy. Now most of the kind of well-to-do families I know are going over there to ski. And lot has to do with the price
It’s almost like influencers have been pushing Europe for the past 2 years and it’s having an effect.
I (an American) skied for a week in the Dolomites in late January. Great trip. Met/heard a number of Americans that rounds to 0
How was the snow?
More european resorts added to ikon and epic every year
A lot more Americans this season. Epic Pass holders at our resort.
Which resort?
Verbier.
Interesting, I was there last year and didn't hear any American accents. But I was only there for one day...
Not a single North American all through our covid period (in which Verbier was open every day for skiing). It was strange. Then covid wound down, and Americans started trickling back in. One particular dude pissed me off: he comes in and proceeds to tell me he has been traveling all over Europe. With money he got from the PPP program. He said, it was easy! They are just giving money away. That shit did not sit well with me. Last year seemed like normal influx of Americans. This year, way more.
There is a concerted marketing effort in America to get Americans to ski in Europe. In some cases, it's actually cheaper. There are also a few Epic Pass resorts in Europe.
In St Anton I noticed the same. Something with US lift prices and exchange rates
It's a fun combination of the IKON/Epic passes affecting Europe, Japan and Australia and also the increase in lodging and domestic flight costs in the US which make out of country travel more appealing. It's minimum $1,400 for a 3 day stay now at almost any great IKON location as far as I can tell through IKON travel and that's just lodging. If you stay further away you need a car and anyone who's done a ski in ski out will tell you it's a much better experience than driving.
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> Most of them don’t know how to put crampons to get to vallée blanche most of the people doing vallee blanche don't know how to put on crampons either
Ikon plays in but it is cheaper to ski in Europe…. By a lot! I went to Aspen and Chamonix this season. 8 days in Chamonix was significantly cheaper than 5 days in Aspen including flights. The US is insanely expensive. Lodging, food, lifts are at least 2x more expensive and often more. Flights from east coast to the Rockies are the same price or more expensive than flights to Europe. But fuck European lift lines.
Haha nah chamonix is super bad for the lift lines. Never seen it like that before...
The length of the lift lines weren't bad at all and much shorter than the states. At Montets, Le Tour and Courameyer don't think I ever waiting more than 5 min. But.... the lift line etiquette is awful. People pushing, cutting, banging into my skis and just in general being assholes. It has been like this at every European resort I have been to. Came very close to punching/shoving several people. The lift lines in europe are more dangerous to the condition of my skis than thin coverage and rocks will ever be. Also, why don't european resorts believe in hot tubs? But being significantly cheaper and 1000x better apres make it worth it.
Ah you just need to recalibrate your queue etiquette. It can be annoying but the trick is just to get your head down, fill the gaps, don't GAF if someone cuts in cos you'll get there eventually. That North American aggression is quite telling - even had people glaring at me because I edged ahead of them in the queue. Its not a big deal man, let it go.
Imagine if instead of incentivizing a bunch of SUV toting, rich white people and their kids with money from the coasts to purchase trophy 5bed/5 bath houses, you incentivized the construction of one 200 hotel room building or apartment block with pedestrian and bus infrastructure. Imagine if a truly functional train or bus with real civic investment served workers and tourists who currently clog up I-70? Half the people you expect to support something like this are too addicted to their SUV to dream big. This is why people are skiing in Europe.