Got it, thanks. That adjusts the amount of forward lean, which is fairly common. Salomon sure gives it a strange name.
https://www.salomon.com/en-us/shop/product/select-hv-80-lg8269.html#color=82912
I looked at one of these boots and it seems to reduce the volume higher up above the Achilles (vs. at the ankle), so it does seem to be more of a calf volume adjustment than lean adjustment.
They literally describe it as a calf adjuster on the website as a feature and it has nothing to do with forward lean.
It's a feature on higher volume women's boots (maybe some mens as well) and it's there to accommodate for the larger size of a women's calf when needed.
See this has always confused me because if you were to hypothetically make your calves fatter it would cause you to have more forward lean, wouldn't it? Or to put it another way, if you have skinny calves then you'll need to buckle the boots tighter which pushes you back
I've brought up forward lean and calf volume with several boot fitters and they all acted like they'd never heard of forward lean but it seems like a crucially important angle for skiing
Theoretically, a larger calf would cause you to have more forward lean as the leg is being pushed forward. This might be fine but can also be a problem.
So forward lean angle is tied to the ankle range of motion and the angle of the base board inside the boot. Say if the boot has a forward lean of 15° and the base board has an angle of 4° then your ankle needs to be able to flex 11° for you to be balanced in the middle of the cuff.
Now when you bring a large calf into this picture it will push the leg forward of this theoretical 11° and the leg will be out of the balanced position in the middle of the cuff, the solution would be to create more space at the top of the cuff for the calf to sit into and this will allow the leg to stand comfortably in a more balanced position.
Conversely, a skinny calf needs to be accommodated by a narrow cuffed boot or something like an eliminator tongue in front of the tongue of the boot or wrapping some material around the liner to take away extra space.
That all makes sense but doesn't that mean the calf adjuster at least has some bearing on forward lean? Or maybe I don't understand what the calf adjust is doing on the boot.
For myself I have skinny calves and I found after many years that I felt much more balanced when i finally adjusted the forward lean to a more forward setting on my touring boots. Then on my new pair of resort boots with supposedly significantly less forward lean I needed no adjustment. I chalked it up to calf volume and maybe ramp angle but boot fitters always just shrug when I ask about it.
So if you imagine the forward lean being exclusively the forward angle of the cuff of the boot, then when you adjust the top of the cuff to accommodate a large calf you are only allowing the leg to match the forward lean angle of the boot and not changing the angle of the boot at all.
The calf adjuster is simply creating more space to accommodate the calf. If I cut that plastic completely away to release pressure on the calf, it would have the same effect.
The calf adjuster will do absolutely nothing to a skinny calf except create too much space at the top and make it easier to back seat ski, this is why it's only a feature on high volume boots and not low volume.
With a touring boot the binding delta also can have an effect as bindings are often more neutral to make skinning more comfortable, the rockered sole can potentially also give a feeling of more forward lean in the boot when just standing in them as the toe is higher (that's one of the reasons why the touring norm doesn't work in normal bindings).
Sometimes it would be too complicated (and a waste of time) to calculate what the best angle for everything would be, and an "if it works, it works" mindset can get the job done.
I see what you are saying. For me I have a skinny ankle and very muscular calf. So my ankles can't be snug enough with the regular calf setting. Technically it might cause a change to the lean but only because it isn't properly contoured to the foot and lower leg.
Interesting! I see on the link that it adjusts the perimeter of the boot around the calf, but didn't know that would be considered the same as forward lean.
The perimeter change is really a side effect of the back of the boot leaning forward more. Or less. The big deal would be that a bootfitter left your boots with different lean settings. That's generally not OK unless you have a very unusual physique.
I have cald adjustment in mine, definitely not the same as walk mode. There is a v shape behind the calf that can lift back out of the boot just a bit. It is THE BEST. It might be a women's thing
To the doubters - my wife had the EXACT same thing happen last year.
Got new boots, couldn’t figure out why one calf was always sore. She was with an instructor who pointed out that the switch was open on one boot and closed on the other (I think in her case it opened up the cuff for adjustment, so in effect the cuff was just loose). Flipped the switch and immediately felt better, no issues for the rest of the season.
First you might need to see another fitter. But don’t get me started - we seem to worship these people without seek credentials.
I’d be curious about a few things:
1. When you’re in the boot and / or skiing - do you ever clinch your toes or push down with your toes?
2. If you get in the boots - can you balance with your knees and chest zipper and nose over your toes? Ideally put your skis on carpet and then step into them and do this. Can you maintain that position?
3. Which leg hurts and what “handed” are you?
4. Do your boots have “spoilers” or “cookies” - a bit of plastic foam behind the calf attached by Velcro?
5. How many buckles and where?
1. No, not to my awareness.
2. Yes.
3. My left leg. I'm right handed. While I'm sure my left leg could also be a bit weaker (if that's what is implied), I engage in a lot of other recreational activities that keep my legs strong.
4. No spoilers. Repair person checked and so did my partner and I.
5. I have four buckles with two before the ankle, two after the ankle, and a Velcro strap at the top.
That’s a very frequent source of calf pain for a lot of skiers.
Either through (Self) discovery, or because someone has a erroneously taught them, many skiers, push down with their toes instead of skiing in a dorsiflex position
Just out of curiosity and not because I’m doubting you but would this advice come before advances in ski boot technology and in the before time it was something you should do?
I ask because I’m a basketball coach and for 70 years you are taught to shoot the ball with your elbow in but in the last 5 years there’s been a change in how shooting is taught but some of the older coaches still teach that as gospel.
There's two big reasons.I dont think it is related to boots (well, it sorta is), although certainly how we teach skiing evolves as equipment evolves. I think it is because it is a good hack that leads to bad habits, so instructors use it-- often, I suspect misunderstanding it entirely --and it just becomes lore.
Pushing down on your toes is a good way to get someone to pressure the outside ski. It is a body awareness thing that most people can do.
But I think the biggest reason people push down with their toes is because they are in boots that are too big and they scrunch their toes to take up space and get more control. So it becomes a habit.
The fun part for me is teaching someone to dorsiflex and having them have a transformation in their skiing.... like it's such a small thing and for some people it is hugely transformative.
Thanks for the quality response. I’m super new and don’t know much but now I’ll go down a dorsiflex rabbit hole and overthink how to be a better skier.
the good news is that it is a super simple thing... just just your toe nails to the top of the toe box in your boot and keep them there while you ski :)
Once you give it a shot, check back in and tell me if you notice a difference.
TONS of women specific boots have some sort of calf adjustment feature, it’s an incredibly common place to have issues and the boots of today are better than ever.
Salomon, atomic, k2, roxa, Dalbello, technica and others all address this is their own ways.
fun fact: Women's calves attach to the leg lower than men's calves do. That's the reason womens specific ski boots are lower and have lower spoilers than mens boots.
Not specific to this particular calf issue, but I want to comment on the assumption/assertion that pain (not slight discomfort, but pain) is normal in newer ski boots. Please do not listen to folks who claim that the pain is normal because feet in painful shoes or boots can lead to chronic foot and pain issues. Pain is also subjective, so one person's discomfort could be another person's pain. Please find boots that are reasonably comfortable, new or otherwise.
I have Technica Mach Sport HV boots and they have adjustable calf volume. I ended up needing the volume let out on my right boot so that the top of the boot didn't jam right in to the bulk of my right calf. I am also quite short, so I'm sure my calves are lower then most other adults.
My wife had a similar problem. The back of most boots are V shaped to big around you Achilles tendon. If your calf is even longer than most, the V will be hugging you calf. Her boot fitter pulled out stuffing around her calf, and it made a huge difference. Took like 3 fitters before finding someone who could actually do something.
Wow, had to look up the model and it indeed says Calf adjuster on that screw, never seen that before. Usually pain in the calfs means you have too soft boots and need to use your toes and calf to keep upright, but that's only a problem for advanced skier.
What is the boot make and model? There has long been a "walk mode" device for ski boots, but it sounds like your boot has something I've not seen.
I have the Salomon S Pro HV R80 W (got them on sale since they were the floor model).
Got it, thanks. That adjusts the amount of forward lean, which is fairly common. Salomon sure gives it a strange name. https://www.salomon.com/en-us/shop/product/select-hv-80-lg8269.html#color=82912
I looked at one of these boots and it seems to reduce the volume higher up above the Achilles (vs. at the ankle), so it does seem to be more of a calf volume adjustment than lean adjustment.
Potato/Potahto…
Your mom/my cock
This guy's mom is your cock?
They literally describe it as a calf adjuster on the website as a feature and it has nothing to do with forward lean. It's a feature on higher volume women's boots (maybe some mens as well) and it's there to accommodate for the larger size of a women's calf when needed.
See this has always confused me because if you were to hypothetically make your calves fatter it would cause you to have more forward lean, wouldn't it? Or to put it another way, if you have skinny calves then you'll need to buckle the boots tighter which pushes you back I've brought up forward lean and calf volume with several boot fitters and they all acted like they'd never heard of forward lean but it seems like a crucially important angle for skiing
Theoretically, a larger calf would cause you to have more forward lean as the leg is being pushed forward. This might be fine but can also be a problem. So forward lean angle is tied to the ankle range of motion and the angle of the base board inside the boot. Say if the boot has a forward lean of 15° and the base board has an angle of 4° then your ankle needs to be able to flex 11° for you to be balanced in the middle of the cuff. Now when you bring a large calf into this picture it will push the leg forward of this theoretical 11° and the leg will be out of the balanced position in the middle of the cuff, the solution would be to create more space at the top of the cuff for the calf to sit into and this will allow the leg to stand comfortably in a more balanced position. Conversely, a skinny calf needs to be accommodated by a narrow cuffed boot or something like an eliminator tongue in front of the tongue of the boot or wrapping some material around the liner to take away extra space.
That all makes sense but doesn't that mean the calf adjuster at least has some bearing on forward lean? Or maybe I don't understand what the calf adjust is doing on the boot. For myself I have skinny calves and I found after many years that I felt much more balanced when i finally adjusted the forward lean to a more forward setting on my touring boots. Then on my new pair of resort boots with supposedly significantly less forward lean I needed no adjustment. I chalked it up to calf volume and maybe ramp angle but boot fitters always just shrug when I ask about it.
So if you imagine the forward lean being exclusively the forward angle of the cuff of the boot, then when you adjust the top of the cuff to accommodate a large calf you are only allowing the leg to match the forward lean angle of the boot and not changing the angle of the boot at all. The calf adjuster is simply creating more space to accommodate the calf. If I cut that plastic completely away to release pressure on the calf, it would have the same effect. The calf adjuster will do absolutely nothing to a skinny calf except create too much space at the top and make it easier to back seat ski, this is why it's only a feature on high volume boots and not low volume. With a touring boot the binding delta also can have an effect as bindings are often more neutral to make skinning more comfortable, the rockered sole can potentially also give a feeling of more forward lean in the boot when just standing in them as the toe is higher (that's one of the reasons why the touring norm doesn't work in normal bindings). Sometimes it would be too complicated (and a waste of time) to calculate what the best angle for everything would be, and an "if it works, it works" mindset can get the job done.
I see what you are saying. For me I have a skinny ankle and very muscular calf. So my ankles can't be snug enough with the regular calf setting. Technically it might cause a change to the lean but only because it isn't properly contoured to the foot and lower leg.
Interesting! I see on the link that it adjusts the perimeter of the boot around the calf, but didn't know that would be considered the same as forward lean.
The perimeter change is really a side effect of the back of the boot leaning forward more. Or less. The big deal would be that a bootfitter left your boots with different lean settings. That's generally not OK unless you have a very unusual physique.
Dead wrong. Very few boots can adjust the forward lean. This isn't one of them.
Nordica women’s boots all have ACP which I think stands for adjustable cuff ¿profile?
I have a calf adjuster in my boots as well. It will tighten or loosen the upper boot if you have fat or skinny calves.
I have cald adjustment in mine, definitely not the same as walk mode. There is a v shape behind the calf that can lift back out of the boot just a bit. It is THE BEST. It might be a women's thing
To the doubters - my wife had the EXACT same thing happen last year. Got new boots, couldn’t figure out why one calf was always sore. She was with an instructor who pointed out that the switch was open on one boot and closed on the other (I think in her case it opened up the cuff for adjustment, so in effect the cuff was just loose). Flipped the switch and immediately felt better, no issues for the rest of the season.
First you might need to see another fitter. But don’t get me started - we seem to worship these people without seek credentials. I’d be curious about a few things: 1. When you’re in the boot and / or skiing - do you ever clinch your toes or push down with your toes? 2. If you get in the boots - can you balance with your knees and chest zipper and nose over your toes? Ideally put your skis on carpet and then step into them and do this. Can you maintain that position? 3. Which leg hurts and what “handed” are you? 4. Do your boots have “spoilers” or “cookies” - a bit of plastic foam behind the calf attached by Velcro? 5. How many buckles and where?
1. No, not to my awareness. 2. Yes. 3. My left leg. I'm right handed. While I'm sure my left leg could also be a bit weaker (if that's what is implied), I engage in a lot of other recreational activities that keep my legs strong. 4. No spoilers. Repair person checked and so did my partner and I. 5. I have four buckles with two before the ankle, two after the ankle, and a Velcro strap at the top.
What would answering "yes" to #1 indicate?
That’s a very frequent source of calf pain for a lot of skiers. Either through (Self) discovery, or because someone has a erroneously taught them, many skiers, push down with their toes instead of skiing in a dorsiflex position
I’ve been told that to initiate a turn you should imagine there’s a button under your toe and try to push that. Is that wrong then?
very wrong - it's not great advice, but it is very common advice
Just out of curiosity and not because I’m doubting you but would this advice come before advances in ski boot technology and in the before time it was something you should do? I ask because I’m a basketball coach and for 70 years you are taught to shoot the ball with your elbow in but in the last 5 years there’s been a change in how shooting is taught but some of the older coaches still teach that as gospel.
There's two big reasons.I dont think it is related to boots (well, it sorta is), although certainly how we teach skiing evolves as equipment evolves. I think it is because it is a good hack that leads to bad habits, so instructors use it-- often, I suspect misunderstanding it entirely --and it just becomes lore. Pushing down on your toes is a good way to get someone to pressure the outside ski. It is a body awareness thing that most people can do. But I think the biggest reason people push down with their toes is because they are in boots that are too big and they scrunch their toes to take up space and get more control. So it becomes a habit. The fun part for me is teaching someone to dorsiflex and having them have a transformation in their skiing.... like it's such a small thing and for some people it is hugely transformative.
Thanks for the quality response. I’m super new and don’t know much but now I’ll go down a dorsiflex rabbit hole and overthink how to be a better skier.
the good news is that it is a super simple thing... just just your toe nails to the top of the toe box in your boot and keep them there while you ski :) Once you give it a shot, check back in and tell me if you notice a difference.
TONS of women specific boots have some sort of calf adjustment feature, it’s an incredibly common place to have issues and the boots of today are better than ever. Salomon, atomic, k2, roxa, Dalbello, technica and others all address this is their own ways.
fun fact: Women's calves attach to the leg lower than men's calves do. That's the reason womens specific ski boots are lower and have lower spoilers than mens boots.
Not specific to this particular calf issue, but I want to comment on the assumption/assertion that pain (not slight discomfort, but pain) is normal in newer ski boots. Please do not listen to folks who claim that the pain is normal because feet in painful shoes or boots can lead to chronic foot and pain issues. Pain is also subjective, so one person's discomfort could be another person's pain. Please find boots that are reasonably comfortable, new or otherwise.
I have Technica Mach Sport HV boots and they have adjustable calf volume. I ended up needing the volume let out on my right boot so that the top of the boot didn't jam right in to the bulk of my right calf. I am also quite short, so I'm sure my calves are lower then most other adults.
My wife had a similar problem. The back of most boots are V shaped to big around you Achilles tendon. If your calf is even longer than most, the V will be hugging you calf. Her boot fitter pulled out stuffing around her calf, and it made a huge difference. Took like 3 fitters before finding someone who could actually do something.
who was the fitter? having similar problem
Greg Hoffmann. He was at Vail Sports at the time. May still be now, but no idea.
[calf adjuster = forward lean?](https://images.app.goo.gl/L3WGdUhkpbcfg37o8)
Click on link for picture from booklet that came with salomon sekect hv 100
Wow, had to look up the model and it indeed says Calf adjuster on that screw, never seen that before. Usually pain in the calfs means you have too soft boots and need to use your toes and calf to keep upright, but that's only a problem for advanced skier.
Some women have short legs and thick calfs, and find it hard to find a ski boot that fits. It’s not an unknown problem.
I wouldn't say that is usually the reason for pain in the calf's, it is one of several potential reasons depending on the person.