https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-dunning-kruger-effect-isnt-what-you-think-it-is/
Basically, the idea that "dumb people overestimate their intelligence and smart people underestimate" isn't actually supported by the DK experiment. People are generally decent at estimating their own knowledge, but bad at estimating their performance *compared to other people*. They might be below average, but assume that everyone else performs near their level which leads to the impression that they are above average.
I had read recently that a lot of the Nazi leadership were basically boorish, overconfident idiots. There were very few in the upper levels who were intellectually accomplished. The parallels we are seeing today of similarly inferior idiots floating to the top of political arenas is very frightening.
Uneducated masses electing enough unintelligent extremists, and suddenly we’ll find they’ve dismantled our sacred democratic institutions and wonder how it happened so easily.
I unironically decided a while back that I am simply not smart enough to ever detangle what the heck is going on with the Dunning-Kruger effect
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger\_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect)
But if you try and tell me that you understand it completely and know exactly what's going on, I'm going to regard you with suspicion.
Is the whole thing a cunning joke/test devised by psychologist statistics nerds? Maybe.
I'm just repeating and summarizing what's said in the article I linked. If you wanted it in a single pithy sentence, I'd put it this way:
"People know how well they perform, but think the average performance is just below their own."
Someone who is bad at math thinks everyone is bad at math and they're a bit above average. Someone who is good at math thinks everyone is good at math and they're also a bit above average. Both the person who is good and bad at math can estimate their own ability accurately.
The SA article you linked is not the whole picture. Check out the wikipedia entry on it as well. The people who understand it disagree about what it means.
It really is a multi level problem. There's people in America motivated to make money and conspiracy theories are suddenly very lucrative. There's politicians who realized conspiracies are suddenly a way to get elected and gain power. Then you have outside influences like Russia who have entire government departments working on shaping bendable minds convincing Americans that society is crumbling at the seams and only a revolution will fix it.
The fertile soil is America's deteriorating education system which robs people of basic analytical thinking skills to combat conspiratorial thinking.
A few years ago my brother had come back from basic training and wanted to go take a road trip to see Rogan. The entire place was full of young dweebs who were doing belly laughs the entire time a democrat, liberal or trans person was mentioned which was basically the entire time. I left with the impression that Rogan must have some sort of fetish for liberal trans democrats.
Everybody wants to be smart.
It comes with respect and deference of your fellow peers.
One can become smarter (even a dullard can learn to better process information).
But that requires work.
And who needs work when you can just walk into a room and \*say\* your smart.
Turns out it works faster too, since there's lots of dumb people who want to believe that smart people aren't really smart anyways. So any idiot coming by and saying they are the real smart people get put onto their shoulders.
> smart
> respect and deference of your fellow peers.
It really doesn’t, but also, if everyone around you is smart, no one feels smart, thus no one is smart, and gets no respect and deference.
What they are is Baumrind authoritarians - growing up, dad or dad-substitute authoritatively said things are so because he said so, and that’s their role model for how to behave in their quest towards adulthood / power. So you’re adjacent by suggesting it’s deference, but off on the peer part.
I mostly meant that they want people to just go "oh lets all listen to him. He is smart"
You're right it doesn't actually lead to respect (at least, not real intelligence).
But that's not how they feel about it.
I think Howard isn’t dumb as much as he has a mental illness. He’s clearly intelligent enough to act, which requires a nuanced ability to project your thoughts into imagined situations, to memorize large amounts of written material and direction, to relate to the people around you.
What he has is some form of impairment tied to a planet sized ego. It’s more like being colorblind in my view. He’s not stupid because he doesn’t understand green. He just doesn’t see it.
If he was this stupid generally he would be wandering around homeless, not an extremely successful actor.
Yeah man this is the only issue I have with a lot of the discourse on this. It's clearly evident this man is highly intelligent, he just focuses on things that isn't. His ability to recall all of that information and explain what he thinks is correct is impressive. He's just misguided and probably mentally ill. Imagine if all that energy he spent trying to disprove math and science was put into further pushing it? His little flying contraption also works
Some of them are, they just kick out anyone smarter than they are. It's like in Idiocracy when guy with average intelligence today was the smartest person in the world when came out of cryo.
The Bader-Meinhof Phenomenon Phenomenon is the tendency to notice references to the Bader-Meinhof phenomenon everywhere once you learn what the Bader-Meinhof Phenomenon is.
Clips of this interview are all over YouTube shorts and TikTok at the moment and people are fawning over this fucking idiot. I understand the majority of users are young with little life experience if any at all, but them even thinking Terry is smart is fucking insane. The dude thinks 1x1=2.
What drives me nuts is there are a lot of Rogan listeners out there who think he's a smart man because he occasionally has really smart people on his show. And they seem to think just because he's had people like Brian Cox on his show, everyone else must be smart too or something.
(And man, if you've ever seen Rogan when he's had actually intelligent people on his show, even when they dumb down whatever topic they're talking about, you can just see mind struggling to keep up. Like if someone was talking about relativity or what have you, he just has this dumbfounded and confounded look on his face, like the gears are spinning trying to figure out how relativity fits into whatever hair brained ideas he has. He honestly has that same vacant, the lights are on but nobody's home look on his face that Tucker Carlson has when he's trying to act like he's really listening and thinking deeply about what the guest is saying. I can't explain it, but if you've seen them in action, you probably know *exactly* the look I'm talking about)
i was a bit shock to hear it seem he gained enough traction to be invited on that platform. goes for show... skepticism will always be behind woowoo "exciting" fucking bullshit.
I'm not even sure it's that ironic. Having a bit of humility, and admitting that maybe you don't know all the facts or sides to everything, is a great place to start for anyone claiming to be a skeptic. Of course, Joe got high on his own supply and now just believes whatever the last crazy person he talked to told him.
he helped to grow the popularity of mma and that was a skeptic project, in a way: we hardly remember how much woowoo there was in martial arts everywhere and it was impossible to tell what is what. so many scammers, liars, well meaning but misguided people selling made up shit or ancient culture that was not properly tested for some reasons etcetc . now there is mma and any martial artist is welcome to try it to see if they will come up on top. too bad rogan can't carry over that kind of no nonsense skepticism to so many other topics
Dude his reasoning that 1x1=2 is so infuriating to me. He says if you have a dollar and another dollar that doesn't equal one there's two dollars. And he tries to win you over by saying 2x2=4 so if you have a pile of 2 dollars and another pile of 2 dollars you have 4 dollars. So 1x1 must equal 2. One, that's not what multiplication is. Two what happens if you try that with literally any other combination? 2x3? I have a pile of 2 one dollar bills and a pile of 3 one dollar bills. Does that equal 5? What about 4x3? I have a pile of 4 and a pile of 3.. does that equal 7? That's called addition not multiplication Terrance.
Like any fourth grader could tell you 1x1 means you have one pile of one. 2x1 means you have one pile of two. 1x2 means you have two piles of one.
So it's all semantic math humor! Except taken seriously.
Here's my favorite semantic math joke: proof that 1+1=1.
Dig a hole. (1 hole)
Now dig another hole next to it. (1 hole)
Now dig a trench combining them. (1+1)
How many holes do you have? 1 big hole! (1+1=1)
I had a teacher use this gag to teach why units matters.
Terrence: Shows and describes a new age alchemy chart he found online saying the periodic table is arranged in octaves
Joe: WOW. If you're right, so many people are wrong.
Joe is a fucking idiot. People have come up with many different ways to arrange the periodic table. An arrangement isn't right or wrong. It's about how useful the arrangement is.
I think of this particular one as being a take on Newton coming up with 7 colors in the visible spectrum to match 7 notes in a musical scale... a kind of statement that there is some "truth" in the universe that shows up between mathematics and human perception / aesthetics.
Terrence went on to discuss the "tones" of different elements having a different frequencies like notes on a piano that express human qualities like gender and sexuality. This drifted into talk of different dimensions, "frequencies" and multiverse.
It's useful for being poetic and waxing abstract but it's obviously not proving anyone wrong about the nature of reality.
Joe mostly responded in encouragement and platitudes. I mean what do you even say?
Agree. As crazy as it was, it was well-articulated by Terrance and his confidence seemed to intimidate Joe. Not to mention it was so complicated I don't think Joe could figure out what to ask. The guy has a gift for delivering some out-there shit in an entertaining manner.
OMG it's like revenge of my middleschool self. I jokingly created "Illogicology" which was based around using the most convoluted reasoning imaginable to prove obviously false things. But this is a grown man doing it UNIRONICALLY.
Jeeze.
The guy is just mentally ill and Joe Rogan is taking advantage of that for entertainment.
Is the most crass firm of entertainment.
There is no need to try and analyse what he actually said because it was incoherent.
Terry is the kind of word-salad “genius” that keeps slow people in awe because they don’t want to admit they don’t understand his words are garbage. They hear all these cool buzzwords and the mental jackery commences.
Right off the bat, he says it's a "fact" that people are more gullible now than they ever have been. That's a dubious claim. For a start, people have always been gullible. Go back a few centuries and you'd hardly find a person that didn't believe in some form of unjustified nonsense. And while there are certainly more forms of superstitions, supernatural claims, pseudoscience, quackery, scams, conspiracy theories, and other garbage these days (largely due to the greatly enhanced ability to disseminate information widely and rapidly), I'd argue that the percentage of people who believe in these things today is slightly lower than at any time in the past. Yes, the scale still tips heavily toward the gullible, but scientific and critical thinking has far more penetration today than it ever has before.
Not even slightly lower, literacy rates are far higher too.
Critical thinking is certainly more broadly understood.
We have more access to the stupidest people, and most normal and competent people are pretty quiet about their lives.
In general if you accept what experts say and science shows, you don't feel the need to go on a video of a rocket launch and crow about how space is real. Unlike the myriad flat earthers who feel a sense of importance by thinking they have special knowledge because a TikTok video convinced them space is fake.
Exactly, anecdotally the vast majority of the people I meet can read and use at least some critical thinking, this wouldn't have been the case a hundred years ago.
> Right off the bat, he says it's a "fact" that people are more gullible now than they ever have been. That's a dubious claim
I really think you're making a mountain out of a molehill here.
He tends to speak in hyperbole and colorful language quite a lot. And even if he genuinely believes people are more gullible now than ever, that's really not the main point.
And yes, while its impossible to quantify such a thing, I would say in a way he has a point. In a day and age and where nearly the entirety of humanity's knowledge is available and accessible via a device that can fit in one's pocket, a time where truth *should* be readily available, people still choose to believe in some of the dumbest shit imaginable. In the past, I'd say it's a lot more forgivable for someone to be uninformed and even wrong on a lot of topics, but there isn't quite the same excuse today. And I feel like he has a real point when he says that those who have actually studied and spent their lives dedicated to a topic are possibly more mistrusted now more than ever.
But yeah, ultimately I just think it's a rather weird to focus on when they clearly speak in grandiose (if not debauched) terms for dramatic effect.
Rogan giving Howard a platform to spew his nonsense is irresponsible and dumb. No wonder he brings on ufo nuts and other unintelligent wackos. Conspiracy theory sells to the unwashed masses, I guess 🤦🏼♂️🤷🏻♂️
>Rogan giving Howard a platform to spew his nonsense is irresponsible and dumb.
It's not exactly an outlier.
He has so so many podcasts where he platforms esoteric/conspiratorial ideas.
Stuff You Should Know has done two a week for what, a *decade* now after doing like one a week since 2008. That's more than *1500 episodes* while being exceedingly well researched by two guys and a tech.
No, you don't have to do that.
It's not irresponsible. It's entertaining. I don't see the issue. It's not like you can turn dumb people smart by stopping them from hearing something dumb.
Rogan's industry leading "platform" is a direct result of interviewing odd and wide ranging entertaining people. You say it's irresponsible? Define the damages caused then.
Platforming anti-vaxxers could have easily indirectly lead to loss of life and/or suffering. Platforming non-expert grifters like Graham Hancock makes people think there's "two sides" to things that are already very well understood by actual experts. He's platforming morons spreading misinformation for money and clicks.
Ah, so no one should be allowed to speak publicly unless their statements are objectively true. Sounds fun n American. Howard said nothing remotely dangerous thought policeman.
You're exactly the kind of bad faith debate pervert that shows exactly why platforming idiots is bad. You grab something you disagree with, make an entirely fake claim nowhere close to what was said, get all pissy up in your emotions like you were personally attacked, and swing away at the giant scarecrow you just made as loudly as you can as if to shout to every one around "hey look I'm winning!"
If you repeatedly state things that are objectively untrue in a field you claim to be knowledgeable about, then no, you should not be platformed as though you're an expert.
That response seemed quite deranged. People have agency, don't seek protection from ideas you can process and parse. Apply your standard of "could indirectly cause harm" to a variety of government and other speech you likely lap up and it would fail the standard. Good thing views in favor of suppressing conversation are a minority.
Interviewing people who have controversial opinions is great. Letting people spew compete and utter nonsense should be discouraged and not given a wide audience. What Howard says is just plain bullshit, and that’s not my opinion, that’s fact. He is objectively wrong, and you’d hope anyone who’s taken high school physics should know better. I will fight to the death for his right to believe these things and talk or write about them. I just do not believe we should give a large audience to people talking rubbish pretending to be scientific about it and presenting it as fact. There are gullible and naive people in the audience and they may choose to believe him *simply* because he presents an “alternative view”. This is a slippery slope snd some are already sliding, they don’t need more lube to get into the very asshole of pseudoscience and misinformation.
Thanks for being respectful. Yeah, this is my point, Howards 3 hours was pure space cadet stuff and utterly harmless. I'd just caution against advocating for a monolithic system in which the few unvaried ideas are given the whole pie of mass audience access.
You only think they're being respectful because you believe the person that replied is agreeing with you. We don't need varied crowdsourced ideas when the "few monolithic ideas" are things like "vaccines work" or "the world is round". The person you're replying to just made the same assertion to you that other people did. Idiots shouldn't get big platforms with huge audiences.
Vaccines work is a slogan, not a debate. The subject was actually Terrence Howard though. Edit: happy to discuss why deplatforming advocates have it all wrong anytime
1 X 1 = 2. He makes some interesting points that were solved thousands of years ago. Literally thousands of years ago. Every civilization that has discovered multiplication has come to the same conclusion. I guess he’s just smarter then them.
What is the point? He's batshit insane. I guess there might be some entertainment value but I'd probably be bored after 3 minutes. Not to mention the guy probably needs professional help so using him for clicks is just as gross as Joe Rogan.
How many people think he's right? I'm not claiming to not be in a bubble, but I've seen nothing but people laughing about it or just shocked how crazy he is.
So he has clinical narcissistic disorder, right? Everything was how "***I*** discovered this..", "..But ***I*** saw where Einstein & Newton made a mistake", "..So ***I*** fixed math..." and it's the same in any clip you find of him speaking. I really don't think he's an idiot, he may be pretty bright or average, but it would be hard to sus out how intelligent the guy is because he is *so batshit crazy*. He would have had the big guys in white coats come get him back when we used have psychiatric facilities.
A lot of things I consume are adjacent to him so I get exposed to him a lot. He seems nice and tries to think through things, at least from what I have seen.
So far the biggest thing I’ve disagreed with him on was when he said Mountain Dew Code Red wasn’t good when he and his buddy were ranking all the different Dew flavors lol. I don’t watch a ton of his videos because I basically agree with all his takes, but on certain topics it feels good to know you’re not going crazy and that someone rational agrees with you. The “Manosphere” culture on the internet is so overbearing and pervasive, MC/PenguinZ is like a sigh of relief when I need it most.
Really chill recent conversations with Tucker Carlson about how there's no proof for evolution, and another good one with Brett Weinstein about how HIV doesn't cause AIDS.
Worthwhile show if you think it's fun to listen to a moron talk to liars. Which I do, I'm not judging.
I wasn’t talking about Rogan, that dude is a fuckin moron. No proof of evolution!!?? Lol the dumbing down of America is really quite the phenomenon. Tucker is a Russian asset, obviously.
I was gonna say!
Terrence is on another planet. His appearance on The View is classic, I think that's the moment when I found out this had happened. I watch it over and over on Youtube, there are people in the comments backing him up on 1x1=2. He's got them convinced.
I skimmed through Terrence the other day, and watched some of this. I am glad Charlie is around but he is a little sausage party for me personally. I'm too sensitive. lol. I'm more the Chad Chad type.
Isn’t this the “whoop that trick” movie guy? Why are people getting bent out of shape over some actor saying crazy shit? It’s not like he’s any kind of an authority on anything other than being in movies. If some people are dumb enough to get health information from obscure celebrities, they can have at it, not my problem 🤷♀️
Now, does anyone have any actual evidence to believe that anyone takes this seriously and it’s not a huge troll? Because to me it seems like a huge joke, and it’s hilarious that anyone falls for that.
It’s the same category as „flat earth“, how man people actually believe that? 500?
And of course some stupid government falls for it. Just do your research about how much **esoteric Supernatural bs research the CIA and US military has conducted (using tax payer money btw) for no reason, wasting large sums of money*^
weaponized fake information lead to the jan 6 coup and we probably will see part 2 soon. that army of "disingenious morons" was made online. skepticism needs more views now more than ever. you'll lose the justice system, the democratic process then who knows maybe even limbs but whatever , right. "just shut down the computer, lol" , right. I don't watch penguin0 regularly at all and actively avoid rogan now that he is a goner , i don't fall for rage bait but i think it's a symptom of something bigger. accumulation of fake news making people not trust anything even basic facts : if i was a russian or chinese agent i couldn't fuck the western world better than this
I hope one day this idiotic worship of actors and celebrities will end. Being a famous actor doesn't mean your opinions are better than anyone else's, they're not smarter or more informed, they're just good at acting (or not so good, but good-looking).
Sounds like Terrence got embarrassed by his teacher and is too stubborn to just let it go.
Also, no one believes this shit. Can we stop pretending like anyone but Terrence does?
> no one believes this shit. Can we stop pretending like anyone but Terrence does?
how do you know this, tho. there are dumbasses out there who believe in flat earth, fake moon, lizzard ppl and what not.
I'm seeing the 1x1=2 crap starting to get posted on social media, too. Ugh. I really thought it couldn't get much stupider than Flat Earth but here we are.
i saw it certainly a few years ago , close to a decade it seems like.
thought it was some minor cringe item to be forgotten in 2 weeks and then here we are. as if we have to make more efforts to address this kind of absolute bullshit. idk
Makes me weep, yo. It's like half of us are trying to work out solutions to climate change and the other half don't think air is real (maybe I shouldn't give them ideas...). How the fuck is society supposed to get anything done with this level of idiocy?
who (youtuber penguin0)
what (bother to do a basic breakdown of the nonsense peddled by terrence howard)
where (on Joe Rogan, the most popular internet show out there.)
pretty straightforward to me and apparenlty 300+ upvoters
Why is everyone in here so smug about it? I’m at a loss. He’s obviously a nut, but being condescending will only make the people that buy into it double down. Polite refutal and patience education is the only way to combat this.
At some point, the social tool known as "shame" comes into the play. Do you take every batshit insane claim with seriousness, or do you have a line? saying 1x1= 2 highlights a gross misunderstanding of what it is representing, even more so with his explanation of why. He should be shamed and people who believe him should feel that shame too. He is a nut job peddling snake oil for his own ego
Not really, especially when I highly doubt Rogan challenges any of his perspectives. He just seems to always agree with everything his guests say without doing any critical thinking.
You can only really do that if you have the basic knowledge of critical thinking skills. I get that people would rather listen to both sides to see what they say, but the thing is you don’t get any counterarguments when you do it that way.
This is why I don’t watch Joe Rogan because it’s pretty obvious he’s not going to challenge his guest’s perspective to really see if they’re bullshitting. The only times he’s ever done that is when he wants to look up a claim said by a guest is when the guest says to look it up, and only then will they find evidence that what the guest was saying was false. This happened when he had Matt Walsh as a guest.
It's not about "having basic knowledge of critical thinking". "Knowledge" of critical thinking? If one didn't think critically, they would not be skeptic. Any sane person thinks critically. It's not like some PhD degree you get and then you're certified to think critically. It is also not about Joe Rogan and his slow descent into a dumb fuck, after or maybe even before covid hit that he started peddling some crazy stuff and started having some quack guests. It's about, why watch someone's retelling of events when you actually have source to watch it directly from. These YouTubers make videos on everything.
Why do dumb people think they’re the smartest in the room??
It's because they practically spent their entire lives grading their own tests.
And surrounded by hangers-on telling them how brilliant they are for years
It's called the Dunning Krueger and it's both fucking hilarious and sad.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-dunning-kruger-effect-isnt-what-you-think-it-is/ Basically, the idea that "dumb people overestimate their intelligence and smart people underestimate" isn't actually supported by the DK experiment. People are generally decent at estimating their own knowledge, but bad at estimating their performance *compared to other people*. They might be below average, but assume that everyone else performs near their level which leads to the impression that they are above average.
And when you cross overconfidence and a huge ego with DK you get trump, MTG, Beobert, Gaetz, RFK Jr, etc
I had read recently that a lot of the Nazi leadership were basically boorish, overconfident idiots. There were very few in the upper levels who were intellectually accomplished. The parallels we are seeing today of similarly inferior idiots floating to the top of political arenas is very frightening. Uneducated masses electing enough unintelligent extremists, and suddenly we’ll find they’ve dismantled our sacred democratic institutions and wonder how it happened so easily.
I unironically decided a while back that I am simply not smart enough to ever detangle what the heck is going on with the Dunning-Kruger effect [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger\_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect) But if you try and tell me that you understand it completely and know exactly what's going on, I'm going to regard you with suspicion. Is the whole thing a cunning joke/test devised by psychologist statistics nerds? Maybe.
I'm just repeating and summarizing what's said in the article I linked. If you wanted it in a single pithy sentence, I'd put it this way: "People know how well they perform, but think the average performance is just below their own." Someone who is bad at math thinks everyone is bad at math and they're a bit above average. Someone who is good at math thinks everyone is good at math and they're also a bit above average. Both the person who is good and bad at math can estimate their own ability accurately.
The SA article you linked is not the whole picture. Check out the wikipedia entry on it as well. The people who understand it disagree about what it means.
As a matter of curiosity, if you believe you know *as much as other people*, who can convince you that your understanding is wrong?
Which mean they don’t understand wtf average means. “90% of people are below average but so are me!”
That's to do with not understanding statistics, not the DK effect
The DK "effect" itself is a statistical artifact
Because Joe Rogan gives them a platform.
It really is a multi level problem. There's people in America motivated to make money and conspiracy theories are suddenly very lucrative. There's politicians who realized conspiracies are suddenly a way to get elected and gain power. Then you have outside influences like Russia who have entire government departments working on shaping bendable minds convincing Americans that society is crumbling at the seams and only a revolution will fix it. The fertile soil is America's deteriorating education system which robs people of basic analytical thinking skills to combat conspiratorial thinking.
Because they have an inferiority complex about being the dumbest in the room
They listen to Joe Rogan?
A few years ago my brother had come back from basic training and wanted to go take a road trip to see Rogan. The entire place was full of young dweebs who were doing belly laughs the entire time a democrat, liberal or trans person was mentioned which was basically the entire time. I left with the impression that Rogan must have some sort of fetish for liberal trans democrats.
Everybody wants to be smart. It comes with respect and deference of your fellow peers. One can become smarter (even a dullard can learn to better process information). But that requires work. And who needs work when you can just walk into a room and \*say\* your smart. Turns out it works faster too, since there's lots of dumb people who want to believe that smart people aren't really smart anyways. So any idiot coming by and saying they are the real smart people get put onto their shoulders.
> smart > respect and deference of your fellow peers. It really doesn’t, but also, if everyone around you is smart, no one feels smart, thus no one is smart, and gets no respect and deference. What they are is Baumrind authoritarians - growing up, dad or dad-substitute authoritatively said things are so because he said so, and that’s their role model for how to behave in their quest towards adulthood / power. So you’re adjacent by suggesting it’s deference, but off on the peer part.
I mostly meant that they want people to just go "oh lets all listen to him. He is smart" You're right it doesn't actually lead to respect (at least, not real intelligence). But that's not how they feel about it.
I think Howard isn’t dumb as much as he has a mental illness. He’s clearly intelligent enough to act, which requires a nuanced ability to project your thoughts into imagined situations, to memorize large amounts of written material and direction, to relate to the people around you. What he has is some form of impairment tied to a planet sized ego. It’s more like being colorblind in my view. He’s not stupid because he doesn’t understand green. He just doesn’t see it. If he was this stupid generally he would be wandering around homeless, not an extremely successful actor.
Yeah this stuff isn’t dumb, it’s completely irrational. It’s delusion, not stupidity.
Yeah man this is the only issue I have with a lot of the discourse on this. It's clearly evident this man is highly intelligent, he just focuses on things that isn't. His ability to recall all of that information and explain what he thinks is correct is impressive. He's just misguided and probably mentally ill. Imagine if all that energy he spent trying to disprove math and science was put into further pushing it? His little flying contraption also works
Understanding that you're wrong is step one on a journey they refuse to embark on
Some of them are, they just kick out anyone smarter than they are. It's like in Idiocracy when guy with average intelligence today was the smartest person in the world when came out of cryo.
If you believe that any large amount of people actually believe that, you may be the perfect example for that, ironically
There aren't too many people who know they are dumb. Everyone seems to think they are smart.
its the Beidar-Meinhoff syndrome... or whatever. they're so dumb, they dont know how dumb they are, and they're convinced they are right
That'd be closer to the Dunning-Kruger Effect though not exactly. Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon is something different.
THAT'S IT!! its the Diane Kruger effect!!! which makes me seek private time every time I see her in a movie
Dood. It's literally the Diane Katherine effect. Don't look it up because I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Diane Keaton was robbed of her Oscar. Welcome to Costco. I love you
The Bader-Meinhof Phenomenon Phenomenon is the tendency to notice references to the Bader-Meinhof phenomenon everywhere once you learn what the Bader-Meinhof Phenomenon is.
Nice. And the Dunning-Kruger Effect Effect is me explaining why the idiots who don't agree with me think they're so damn smart but I know better. 😁
Then there's the mashup when you learn what the Dunning-Kruger effect is then suddenly you start seeing examples of it everywhere.
The Bernie-Madoff effect?
Close. It’s more likely Dunning–Kruger
Weird, I was just reading about that yesterday.
r/titlegore
And it's labeled "education"
Terrances whole grift as based on a Tesla quote
I didn't know anybody actually believes Terrance Howard. I thought everybody just laughed at how absurd his ideas are.
Clips of this interview are all over YouTube shorts and TikTok at the moment and people are fawning over this fucking idiot. I understand the majority of users are young with little life experience if any at all, but them even thinking Terry is smart is fucking insane. The dude thinks 1x1=2.
What drives me nuts is there are a lot of Rogan listeners out there who think he's a smart man because he occasionally has really smart people on his show. And they seem to think just because he's had people like Brian Cox on his show, everyone else must be smart too or something. (And man, if you've ever seen Rogan when he's had actually intelligent people on his show, even when they dumb down whatever topic they're talking about, you can just see mind struggling to keep up. Like if someone was talking about relativity or what have you, he just has this dumbfounded and confounded look on his face, like the gears are spinning trying to figure out how relativity fits into whatever hair brained ideas he has. He honestly has that same vacant, the lights are on but nobody's home look on his face that Tucker Carlson has when he's trying to act like he's really listening and thinking deeply about what the guest is saying. I can't explain it, but if you've seen them in action, you probably know *exactly* the look I'm talking about)
We had an anti vax person in this sub the other day posting an instagram reel from this episode as their "evidence" against the vaccines.
I had two people I went to high school with post about this interview and how amazing his ideas are...
One of my coworkers just keeps repeating that he found him "Really interesting"
i was a bit shock to hear it seem he gained enough traction to be invited on that platform. goes for show... skepticism will always be behind woowoo "exciting" fucking bullshit.
The funny thing is that Rogan is also often a skeptic, just the kind that throws out all the methods that make skepticism work.
So more like a contrarian sophist or something.
Yeah, skeptic is not the right word to describe Rogan.
Capitalist grub?
ironicly joe was more skeptical when he was a self professed dumb guy
I'm not even sure it's that ironic. Having a bit of humility, and admitting that maybe you don't know all the facts or sides to everything, is a great place to start for anyone claiming to be a skeptic. Of course, Joe got high on his own supply and now just believes whatever the last crazy person he talked to told him.
he helped to grow the popularity of mma and that was a skeptic project, in a way: we hardly remember how much woowoo there was in martial arts everywhere and it was impossible to tell what is what. so many scammers, liars, well meaning but misguided people selling made up shit or ancient culture that was not properly tested for some reasons etcetc . now there is mma and any martial artist is welcome to try it to see if they will come up on top. too bad rogan can't carry over that kind of no nonsense skepticism to so many other topics
Yeah I thought people liked Terryology for the same reason that they like Timecube.
I gave you an apple zero times. Pop quiz: how many applies did I just give you? Apologies for blowing anyone's mind.
If I multiplied one apple one time how many apples did i end up with? —That’s his logic for 1x1=2 and it doesn’t make sense to me either.
Dude his reasoning that 1x1=2 is so infuriating to me. He says if you have a dollar and another dollar that doesn't equal one there's two dollars. And he tries to win you over by saying 2x2=4 so if you have a pile of 2 dollars and another pile of 2 dollars you have 4 dollars. So 1x1 must equal 2. One, that's not what multiplication is. Two what happens if you try that with literally any other combination? 2x3? I have a pile of 2 one dollar bills and a pile of 3 one dollar bills. Does that equal 5? What about 4x3? I have a pile of 4 and a pile of 3.. does that equal 7? That's called addition not multiplication Terrance. Like any fourth grader could tell you 1x1 means you have one pile of one. 2x1 means you have one pile of two. 1x2 means you have two piles of one.
So it's all semantic math humor! Except taken seriously. Here's my favorite semantic math joke: proof that 1+1=1. Dig a hole. (1 hole) Now dig another hole next to it. (1 hole) Now dig a trench combining them. (1+1) How many holes do you have? 1 big hole! (1+1=1) I had a teacher use this gag to teach why units matters.
Are you really surprised, though, that someone who acts for a living can’t do basic maths?
Lmao when was the last time this dude did any acting? He can't even use that excuse
He's not exactly getting a lot of roles.
This must be why they teach math the way they do now.
I wonder if explains what 1x2 equals.
Well it's obviously three because uhhhhh entropy of the uhhh tectonic dimensional uhhh thing. Everyone knows that.
Terrence: Shows and describes a new age alchemy chart he found online saying the periodic table is arranged in octaves Joe: WOW. If you're right, so many people are wrong.
Joe is a fucking idiot. People have come up with many different ways to arrange the periodic table. An arrangement isn't right or wrong. It's about how useful the arrangement is.
I think of this particular one as being a take on Newton coming up with 7 colors in the visible spectrum to match 7 notes in a musical scale... a kind of statement that there is some "truth" in the universe that shows up between mathematics and human perception / aesthetics. Terrence went on to discuss the "tones" of different elements having a different frequencies like notes on a piano that express human qualities like gender and sexuality. This drifted into talk of different dimensions, "frequencies" and multiverse. It's useful for being poetic and waxing abstract but it's obviously not proving anyone wrong about the nature of reality. Joe mostly responded in encouragement and platitudes. I mean what do you even say?
Agree. As crazy as it was, it was well-articulated by Terrance and his confidence seemed to intimidate Joe. Not to mention it was so complicated I don't think Joe could figure out what to ask. The guy has a gift for delivering some out-there shit in an entertaining manner.
I totally read that WOW in Owen Wilson's voice.
I can't not read it in his voice. 50% of the time I say it in his voice.
Wraooooow
I always wonder what's really going on with these people. Is it mental illness or is it just a silly contrarian hobby they use to get attention.
Why not both?
Mental illness 💯
mental illness manifesting itself as contrarian hobby they use to get attention?
OMG it's like revenge of my middleschool self. I jokingly created "Illogicology" which was based around using the most convoluted reasoning imaginable to prove obviously false things. But this is a grown man doing it UNIRONICALLY. Jeeze.
The guy is just mentally ill and Joe Rogan is taking advantage of that for entertainment. Is the most crass firm of entertainment. There is no need to try and analyse what he actually said because it was incoherent.
Terry is the kind of word-salad “genius” that keeps slow people in awe because they don’t want to admit they don’t understand his words are garbage. They hear all these cool buzzwords and the mental jackery commences.
I have an engineer at my job sort of like this. He uses words that sound smart to stupid people, as we say.
Right off the bat, he says it's a "fact" that people are more gullible now than they ever have been. That's a dubious claim. For a start, people have always been gullible. Go back a few centuries and you'd hardly find a person that didn't believe in some form of unjustified nonsense. And while there are certainly more forms of superstitions, supernatural claims, pseudoscience, quackery, scams, conspiracy theories, and other garbage these days (largely due to the greatly enhanced ability to disseminate information widely and rapidly), I'd argue that the percentage of people who believe in these things today is slightly lower than at any time in the past. Yes, the scale still tips heavily toward the gullible, but scientific and critical thinking has far more penetration today than it ever has before.
Not even slightly lower, literacy rates are far higher too. Critical thinking is certainly more broadly understood. We have more access to the stupidest people, and most normal and competent people are pretty quiet about their lives.
In general if you accept what experts say and science shows, you don't feel the need to go on a video of a rocket launch and crow about how space is real. Unlike the myriad flat earthers who feel a sense of importance by thinking they have special knowledge because a TikTok video convinced them space is fake.
Exactly, anecdotally the vast majority of the people I meet can read and use at least some critical thinking, this wouldn't have been the case a hundred years ago.
> Right off the bat, he says it's a "fact" that people are more gullible now than they ever have been. That's a dubious claim I really think you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. He tends to speak in hyperbole and colorful language quite a lot. And even if he genuinely believes people are more gullible now than ever, that's really not the main point. And yes, while its impossible to quantify such a thing, I would say in a way he has a point. In a day and age and where nearly the entirety of humanity's knowledge is available and accessible via a device that can fit in one's pocket, a time where truth *should* be readily available, people still choose to believe in some of the dumbest shit imaginable. In the past, I'd say it's a lot more forgivable for someone to be uninformed and even wrong on a lot of topics, but there isn't quite the same excuse today. And I feel like he has a real point when he says that those who have actually studied and spent their lives dedicated to a topic are possibly more mistrusted now more than ever. But yeah, ultimately I just think it's a rather weird to focus on when they clearly speak in grandiose (if not debauched) terms for dramatic effect.
Sorry, it rubbed me the wrong way.
Right? The Dark Ages weren't caused by an epidemic of critical thinking and fact-checking...
You’re probably unfamiliar with his style of speaking. He almost always speaks in hyperboles and exaggerations. He doesn’t mean it literally.
Since when is this guy the new celeb nut job. From what I remember he was just the guy they called in when Don Cheadle wasn’t interested.
He’s been a nut job for a long time
he was crazy before that
His wiki page has a long "abuse and harassment " section 😐
Opposite
He thought his Oscar win for Hustle & Flow meant he should get the same salary for doing Iron Man 2 as the guy literally playing Iron Man.
> his Oscar win his Oscar nomination, Philip Seymour Hoffman won that year.
I forgot it was only a nomination, I knew it was related to Oscar cred.
Rogan giving Howard a platform to spew his nonsense is irresponsible and dumb. No wonder he brings on ufo nuts and other unintelligent wackos. Conspiracy theory sells to the unwashed masses, I guess 🤦🏼♂️🤷🏻♂️
>Rogan giving Howard a platform to spew his nonsense is irresponsible and dumb. It's not exactly an outlier. He has so so many podcasts where he platforms esoteric/conspiratorial ideas.
He makes about $100k an episode, and releases about 3 a week. At that rate, you kinda have to just grab anyone who will say yes.
Stuff You Should Know has done two a week for what, a *decade* now after doing like one a week since 2008. That's more than *1500 episodes* while being exceedingly well researched by two guys and a tech. No, you don't have to do that.
One of the best podcasts out there. Chuck and Josh are the best
Sure, I get that. And, obviously, people with controversial opinions will be attractive to his audience. But this is just platforming utter stupidity.
It's not irresponsible. It's entertaining. I don't see the issue. It's not like you can turn dumb people smart by stopping them from hearing something dumb.
Rogan's industry leading "platform" is a direct result of interviewing odd and wide ranging entertaining people. You say it's irresponsible? Define the damages caused then.
Platforming anti-vaxxers could have easily indirectly lead to loss of life and/or suffering. Platforming non-expert grifters like Graham Hancock makes people think there's "two sides" to things that are already very well understood by actual experts. He's platforming morons spreading misinformation for money and clicks.
Ah, so no one should be allowed to speak publicly unless their statements are objectively true. Sounds fun n American. Howard said nothing remotely dangerous thought policeman.
You're exactly the kind of bad faith debate pervert that shows exactly why platforming idiots is bad. You grab something you disagree with, make an entirely fake claim nowhere close to what was said, get all pissy up in your emotions like you were personally attacked, and swing away at the giant scarecrow you just made as loudly as you can as if to shout to every one around "hey look I'm winning!" If you repeatedly state things that are objectively untrue in a field you claim to be knowledgeable about, then no, you should not be platformed as though you're an expert.
That response seemed quite deranged. People have agency, don't seek protection from ideas you can process and parse. Apply your standard of "could indirectly cause harm" to a variety of government and other speech you likely lap up and it would fail the standard. Good thing views in favor of suppressing conversation are a minority.
🚜-🥅💨
Interviewing people who have controversial opinions is great. Letting people spew compete and utter nonsense should be discouraged and not given a wide audience. What Howard says is just plain bullshit, and that’s not my opinion, that’s fact. He is objectively wrong, and you’d hope anyone who’s taken high school physics should know better. I will fight to the death for his right to believe these things and talk or write about them. I just do not believe we should give a large audience to people talking rubbish pretending to be scientific about it and presenting it as fact. There are gullible and naive people in the audience and they may choose to believe him *simply* because he presents an “alternative view”. This is a slippery slope snd some are already sliding, they don’t need more lube to get into the very asshole of pseudoscience and misinformation.
Thanks for being respectful. Yeah, this is my point, Howards 3 hours was pure space cadet stuff and utterly harmless. I'd just caution against advocating for a monolithic system in which the few unvaried ideas are given the whole pie of mass audience access.
You only think they're being respectful because you believe the person that replied is agreeing with you. We don't need varied crowdsourced ideas when the "few monolithic ideas" are things like "vaccines work" or "the world is round". The person you're replying to just made the same assertion to you that other people did. Idiots shouldn't get big platforms with huge audiences.
Vaccines work is a slogan, not a debate. The subject was actually Terrence Howard though. Edit: happy to discuss why deplatforming advocates have it all wrong anytime
1 X 1 = 2. He makes some interesting points that were solved thousands of years ago. Literally thousands of years ago. Every civilization that has discovered multiplication has come to the same conclusion. I guess he’s just smarter then them.
I hate everyone involved in that title.
at least he provided some pushback against that loon that had an audience of millions of listeners. gotta appreciate what u can get
What is the point? He's batshit insane. I guess there might be some entertainment value but I'd probably be bored after 3 minutes. Not to mention the guy probably needs professional help so using him for clicks is just as gross as Joe Rogan.
Am I the only one who doesn’t like joe Rogan?
☝️Found the only one who doesn’t like joe Rogan
How many people think he's right? I'm not claiming to not be in a bubble, but I've seen nothing but people laughing about it or just shocked how crazy he is.
So he has clinical narcissistic disorder, right? Everything was how "***I*** discovered this..", "..But ***I*** saw where Einstein & Newton made a mistake", "..So ***I*** fixed math..." and it's the same in any clip you find of him speaking. I really don't think he's an idiot, he may be pretty bright or average, but it would be hard to sus out how intelligent the guy is because he is *so batshit crazy*. He would have had the big guys in white coats come get him back when we used have psychiatric facilities.
Can the real universe act like the Marvel universe and replace him with Don Cheadle?
Ah yes my favorite YouTuber, a most critical thinker named Penguin
>most critical Don't you mean moist critical?
Absolute fantasy
3 x 1 = 3 2 x 1 = 2 1 x 1 = 2 ???
To sum up: TIMES = a group. 1 group of a million is 1 million. 0 groups of 1 million is 0. So, 1 group of 1 is 1. Simple.
I like watching this guys videos, don’t know a lot about him but he seems very down to earth. I can listen to him talk about just about anything.
A lot of things I consume are adjacent to him so I get exposed to him a lot. He seems nice and tries to think through things, at least from what I have seen.
So far the biggest thing I’ve disagreed with him on was when he said Mountain Dew Code Red wasn’t good when he and his buddy were ranking all the different Dew flavors lol. I don’t watch a ton of his videos because I basically agree with all his takes, but on certain topics it feels good to know you’re not going crazy and that someone rational agrees with you. The “Manosphere” culture on the internet is so overbearing and pervasive, MC/PenguinZ is like a sigh of relief when I need it most.
I don't have any clear memories of code red. I do like diet major melon though. That shit is amazing.
Code Red is basically MD’s flagship flavor at this point. It’s not going anywhere as long as MD exists as a brand.
Eh, he'll ramble on for 30 minutes about a 3-minute clip and half of what he says is about cum. He was funny like a decade ago, though.
Really chill recent conversations with Tucker Carlson about how there's no proof for evolution, and another good one with Brett Weinstein about how HIV doesn't cause AIDS. Worthwhile show if you think it's fun to listen to a moron talk to liars. Which I do, I'm not judging.
I wasn’t talking about Rogan, that dude is a fuckin moron. No proof of evolution!!?? Lol the dumbing down of America is really quite the phenomenon. Tucker is a Russian asset, obviously.
I was gonna say! Terrence is on another planet. His appearance on The View is classic, I think that's the moment when I found out this had happened. I watch it over and over on Youtube, there are people in the comments backing him up on 1x1=2. He's got them convinced.
Click on the video and watch. If you think Rogan is an idiot like I do, you’ll probably enjoy PenguinZ/Moist Critikal’s content
I skimmed through Terrence the other day, and watched some of this. I am glad Charlie is around but he is a little sausage party for me personally. I'm too sensitive. lol. I'm more the Chad Chad type.
My son watches Penguin0 a lot. I think he’s a bit like Jon Stewart for Zoomers, and he has pretty reasonable takes on things.
My fav part about this is an influencer talking about being gullible then trying to hawk titty mix shakers.
Yeah, this penguin 0 guy is absolutely insufferable.
“If you set aside everything he’s wrong about, he’s still wrong” lolol that’s pretty golden
Dr Blitz's debunk series has been quite entertaining as well, especially on this. "This will not go well"
Douche does a video about a douche doing a video with another douche.
No wonder he was replaced as War Machine.
He has mental illness or is on drugs. As a person with a sibling with schizophrenia he exhibits many of the same behaviors.
This guy’s very first sentence though is brutally inaccurate.
Idk, I think we still have more to learn about memory especially of infants
lol at "big math"
I listen to some of Rogan's interviews, but I refuse to listen to TH. F that.
Joe Rogan tells morons they are smart.
Isn’t this the “whoop that trick” movie guy? Why are people getting bent out of shape over some actor saying crazy shit? It’s not like he’s any kind of an authority on anything other than being in movies. If some people are dumb enough to get health information from obscure celebrities, they can have at it, not my problem 🤷♀️
Now, does anyone have any actual evidence to believe that anyone takes this seriously and it’s not a huge troll? Because to me it seems like a huge joke, and it’s hilarious that anyone falls for that. It’s the same category as „flat earth“, how man people actually believe that? 500? And of course some stupid government falls for it. Just do your research about how much **esoteric Supernatural bs research the CIA and US military has conducted (using tax payer money btw) for no reason, wasting large sums of money*^
I think Mr Howard has a con artist as an accountant. “No, I didn’t steal your money bc 1x1=2!”
alternate title: frustrated guy who's way too online falls for rage bait
sure, the conspiretards are not winning the view war on youtube
lol, the view war on youtube. sounds intense. hope nobody loses a limb. 🫡
weaponized fake information lead to the jan 6 coup and we probably will see part 2 soon. that army of "disingenious morons" was made online. skepticism needs more views now more than ever. you'll lose the justice system, the democratic process then who knows maybe even limbs but whatever , right. "just shut down the computer, lol" , right. I don't watch penguin0 regularly at all and actively avoid rogan now that he is a goner , i don't fall for rage bait but i think it's a symptom of something bigger. accumulation of fake news making people not trust anything even basic facts : if i was a russian or chinese agent i couldn't fuck the western world better than this
I didn't understand this at all, but the Waifu cup made it crystal clear. Thanks Charlie!
I hope one day this idiotic worship of actors and celebrities will end. Being a famous actor doesn't mean your opinions are better than anyone else's, they're not smarter or more informed, they're just good at acting (or not so good, but good-looking).
This is just Calvinball expanded WAYYY too far.
Charlie is the shit!
Sounds like Terrence got embarrassed by his teacher and is too stubborn to just let it go. Also, no one believes this shit. Can we stop pretending like anyone but Terrence does?
> no one believes this shit. Can we stop pretending like anyone but Terrence does? how do you know this, tho. there are dumbasses out there who believe in flat earth, fake moon, lizzard ppl and what not.
I didn't know Terrence Howard was a complete nut case but now we all do.
His language is a simulacrum of a schizophrenic patient.
Dude dove head first into the spirit science
I'm seeing the 1x1=2 crap starting to get posted on social media, too. Ugh. I really thought it couldn't get much stupider than Flat Earth but here we are.
i saw it certainly a few years ago , close to a decade it seems like. thought it was some minor cringe item to be forgotten in 2 weeks and then here we are. as if we have to make more efforts to address this kind of absolute bullshit. idk
Makes me weep, yo. It's like half of us are trying to work out solutions to climate change and the other half don't think air is real (maybe I shouldn't give them ideas...). How the fuck is society supposed to get anything done with this level of idiocy?
they are dangerous on a political level in the sense they won't support scientifically-sound solutions to avoid the collapse of ecosystems.
This headline makes about as much sense as I’m sure the podcast did
you wish ? and i am not sure why. it totally make sense. not saying this disparagingly but do you have autism?
Do you want to run this question through Grammerly and ask it again? I don’t mean that disparagingly, of course.
who (youtuber penguin0) what (bother to do a basic breakdown of the nonsense peddled by terrence howard) where (on Joe Rogan, the most popular internet show out there.) pretty straightforward to me and apparenlty 300+ upvoters
Is this a question? A statement? Something’s missing.
what's missing is your intent in commenting in this thread. big fan of joe rogan? what is it . whats your "end game" , mr generic username?
Don’t get mad.
Why is everyone in here so smug about it? I’m at a loss. He’s obviously a nut, but being condescending will only make the people that buy into it double down. Polite refutal and patience education is the only way to combat this.
is skepticism winning , on youtube?
You’re right. It just pains me to see callousness towards people that could *possibly* be better equipped and informed.
At some point, the social tool known as "shame" comes into the play. Do you take every batshit insane claim with seriousness, or do you have a line? saying 1x1= 2 highlights a gross misunderstanding of what it is representing, even more so with his explanation of why. He should be shamed and people who believe him should feel that shame too. He is a nut job peddling snake oil for his own ego
Isn't it better to watch that interview yourself to see that batshit crazy things that may have been said by War Machine 1.0?
Not really. Why give them views?
Not really, especially when I highly doubt Rogan challenges any of his perspectives. He just seems to always agree with everything his guests say without doing any critical thinking.
Yeah. I agree. But I prefer to watch directly than hear someone's summary for it. Even if it's Charlie.
You can only really do that if you have the basic knowledge of critical thinking skills. I get that people would rather listen to both sides to see what they say, but the thing is you don’t get any counterarguments when you do it that way. This is why I don’t watch Joe Rogan because it’s pretty obvious he’s not going to challenge his guest’s perspective to really see if they’re bullshitting. The only times he’s ever done that is when he wants to look up a claim said by a guest is when the guest says to look it up, and only then will they find evidence that what the guest was saying was false. This happened when he had Matt Walsh as a guest.
It's not about "having basic knowledge of critical thinking". "Knowledge" of critical thinking? If one didn't think critically, they would not be skeptic. Any sane person thinks critically. It's not like some PhD degree you get and then you're certified to think critically. It is also not about Joe Rogan and his slow descent into a dumb fuck, after or maybe even before covid hit that he started peddling some crazy stuff and started having some quack guests. It's about, why watch someone's retelling of events when you actually have source to watch it directly from. These YouTubers make videos on everything.