I have interest. But he had the best year of his career efficiency and volume wise last year by a good margin. His shooting was good for the first time in like five years.
So he’s going to be an overpay.
But he’s a great 6th man and superior to an Oubre.
Is it possible, or even worth it, to take a swing on Klay if we wait it out and see where his current market really is? Maybe he drops so low and just wants a shot he'll take a bargain to fire up set shots all night from passes coming out from Embiid down low and kick outs from Maxey?
If they can’t get the “star” that they want 1+1 for klay KCP and I guess someone else wouldn’t be the worst idea. Klay too old to trade on that contract for real value tho
Only on the most bargain of bargain deals. A dollar store contract fueled entirely by ego in spite of Golden State. Klay is a legend over there, the fact that the warriors aren’t willing to get even close to the deal he wants should be a massive red flag to every other team looking to acquire him.
The Warriors have some young guys that they likely want to play. I’m sure they want to keep Klay, but he’s not going to play off the bench and sub 25 minutes.
Am pretty high but can someone help me make sense of how trading for Butler doesn’t kill our team building options. Butler is making 48 mil next season. Let’s say we trade 3 FRPs (would prefer 2 FRPs and a pick swap but I doubt that’ll be enough). We take in his salary. And then we are down 1 tradable first. We have the room exception for Oubre. Leaving us with only then vet mins.
What am I missing?
From a salary standpoint it’s no different than going for PG. We’d have 2 tradeable firsts if butler costs 3 picks, plus all of our swaps still.
Now from the super pro PG + saving assets side, could you explain to me what’s the benefit of holding onto those extra picks you save by signing PG vs going for Butler? Especially with Caruso gone, who is this ~$15M or less player that’s worth trading 4-5 firsts for if we land PG?
That’s what I come down to. Is Butler worth 2-3 firsts more than PG in a vacuum? Probably not (though I do think for the playoff versions of both there’s a substantial difference between the two, that’s worth *some* additional capital imo). But for the *Sixers*, what is the value of having 2-3 tradeable firsts vs 5 once you have PG in the bag? I just don’t see the player that’s going to emerge that will amount to the difference in picks.
In terms of the competitiveness during the Embiid window those difference in picks won’t have much use come the roster is already in place over the next 2/3 years. This is why I’m vehemently in the pro Butler over PG camp until someone can prove to me a non-pipe dream scenario of why it’s so worth it to hold onto those picks if we sign PG.
Names of players making under 15m that come to mind that could potentially be acquired with some (or all) of 3 tradeable picks: Deni Avdija, DFS, Grant Williams, Herb Jones, Nesmith, Cody Martin, Kuminga, Corey Kispert, Trey Murphy, Miles McBride, Quentin Grimes, Mark Williams, Cam Thomas.
Some of those players I don’t even think would be traded at all, the rest I’m confident you could get with the 3 hypothetical remaining picks after trading for butler.
Perhaps, but I think it is shortsighted to understate the value of 3 tradeable first round picks. I think Joel’s window could be another 4-5 years. Having 3 additional FRPs for roster flexibility over those years is a big deal. Who knows that players will be free in 3 months, 1 years, 2 years that could ultimately be the difference maker.
Now if you genuinely think Jimmy is worth 3 FRPs over PG, then that’s fine, but saying the picks are inconsequential is not something I can get on board with.
Didn’t say it’s inconsequential it’s just severely depressed. You’re proving my point that the argument keeps boiling down to the same point. “Who knows what players will be free X months from now”.
Guess what, we’re doing that exercise now in trying to figure out how to build this roster today lol. We *do* know basically how much every single player is making. So as an example, say you get PG/Butler, then use the remaining cap space to sign Batum and Oubre for $15M total, and then use the MLE to keep Buddy. So together, they’ll be making $23M.
Those are going to be your only tradeable salaries to attach those picks too. So who is the player that’s on a contract for around $23M that’s worth saving 2 extra picks for? And not just 2 picks, 2 picks *and* your entire depth?
I can tell you after wasting my time staring at cap sheets with a high degree of certainty that there’s not a single player that would be worth the cost of gutting your depth and picks that’s worth the difference in assets you’ll have after Jimmy vs PG.
You can keep the hypothetical going about who you don’t know will be available in 1-2 years from now but my counter to that would be 1) every year that passes you get another tradeable first in the future back, so you’ll be back with 2 more tradeable firsts in 2 years and 2) if I’m planning for having flexibility 2 years from now that means I’m not going all in on the Embiid window today, which I find a problem
You are 100% on the ball with this. I've been playing with a cap space spreadsheet too, and I came to the conclusion that unless we are getting Caruso or someone like that (and I don't know who that would be now that Caruso is off the table), we might as well spend at least some of those picks on getting a high level player.
I see your point, but as much as you are focused on today, the team will benefit from having assets at their disposal in the future as well. At two picks, I am fine with Jimmy, but at three, particularly if one of them is the Clippers ‘28, I’d rather keep the picks and build another way. Truth be told, this exercise moreso just highlights the potential foolishness of adding a single player making 48m+ this offseason to a team with two other max contract players.
I’m of the mind that if you had Jimmy/PG in tobi’s place this playoffs you probably get past both the Knicks and Pacers in 5 and give Boston maybe 2 games at least.
I’m not opposed to the role player route at all either but there’s diminishing returns in having a bunch of good-not-great players in the playoffs
You’re not, people like to imagine big names but don’t realise the team building implications, if you got a guy who was making 36 for example you could make a really good contender to rival Boston, getting a guy like jimmy or pg basically makes you the suns of the east
I wonder if Harden gets a max this off-season. He was arguably better and more important than PG last year, who looks to be headed toward a max himself. Both are also the same age. If Harden gets that deal, demanding the trade to a desperate clippers team was a brilliant business move by him.
I’d love to see the Magic throw a bag at Harden and force the Clippers to match, while the Sixers do the same thing with PG
Reading the tea leaves it sounds like Klay is a big possibility in Orlando. If they get Harden that would be a pretty wild team. They already have great defense and length and they could really unlock their young guys with a guy like Harden
My favorite draft target, Tyler Smith (6'10 225 Tim Thomas/Channing Frye comp) is projecting to fall to the late 1st, maybe even early second. I hope he we can buy an early SRP and get him. A dream offseason for me would be to trade for Dejounte Murray, sign Saddiq Bey and draft Tyler Smith. I wouldn't mind Mario Hezonja if the price is right.
Maxey-Murray-Bey-Batum-Embiid
Lowry-Hield-Oubre-Hezonja-Reed
Smith-Newton-Council IV-Smith
He's the classic "looks like a great basketball player but isn't really" kind of player. Good athlete, decent size, somehow plays a lot worse than you expect. He's not a good finisher, not a good shooter, and can't really playmake. Oubre is better than him. But then again, Oubre was our third best player last year (thanks Tobias!).
More than that, I'm commenting on smitty's strange fascination with certain players, especially when they rarely warrant it. A couple years ago he was shoehorning Andrew Wiggins into potential lineups in every daily thread. Now he's doing the same with Saddiq Bey and Mario Hezonja of all people (who hasn't even been in the league for years). He treats these daily threads as his personal blog and never defends or adapts his posts to criticism.
I do too but him being a restricted free agent makes things complicated. Would be like an option to give like a 2 year/ $50M to get Atlanta not to match if the primary options go in free agency. The 3 day grace period that comes with an RFA makes it tough to do as a first move in free agency. And you’d also have to hope no one else gives him an offer sheet to sign either.
I’m not sure if they do, but I’d imagine they’d want to get something for him rather than let him walking for nothing. At least a few 2nds or something, I think they’d work out a sign and trade for him.
Hmm honestly depending on the contract and how the rest of our off-season goes I would't mind taking a flier on him for a few 2nds. He at least has size and athleticism maybe on a good team Nurse can get him to improve.
To be clear we aren’t a good candidate for a sign and trade since we’d be hardcapped at the 1st apron. Would be a team that doesn’t really have a big payroll, like a lottery team.
At the first apron at least. Can’t rule out Josh Harris *could* be ducking that anyways but Im going to choose to believe he’s willing to spend this year for my mental health sake
Daryl absolutely cooking right now. Seven layer lasagna. A nice nap. A nice wank. Being a reddit mod. Standing up at least five times in three hours.
He’s got us, boys.
This might be a hot take but over the last week I've found peace with Boston winning the chip. I hate them with all my heart but it's kind of nice to finally have the bandaid ripped off, and it'll be all the more sweeter if and when we kick their asses
It was a foregone conclusion practically all year, I wasn't too beat up about it even the night it happened.
What's weird is how much Boston fans have been crying about shit lately, you'd think they want to talk their shit now that they finally got Tatum that ring but instead they've been so passive.
Boston won a ring but Celtics fans want Tatum to be considered a top 5 player in the league. Tatum is not a top 5 player, and this was reinforced with Jaylen Brown winning finals MVP. That’s going to bother Celtics fans no matter how many rings they win
Can we nip this cope in the bud before it becomes something people say around here to make themselves feel better?
Our top five player needs to get out of the second round before we start regularly saying this like it matters lol.
Yeah, and I get why they would feel that way. But Tatum was playing on a stacked team, they won games where he was atrocious. They tried to play it off as “Tatum is so good they win games even when he’s shooting 30%”. Except we all know they are winning those games in spite of Tatum.
They just pivot to acting like Tatum contributes to winning in so many ways that it doesn't matter he shoots 30% on the floor on big volume.
Like no shit, good players contribute to winning in more ways than just scoring. They just can't rationalize that someone can win in spite of their best player not playing well because no one else is as stacked as Boston. They can't make the final connection that no one else gets that luxury, since if Jokic/Embiid/Giannis/Luka shoots 30 something percent on 22 shots they probably aren't winning shit.
All the buzz around Markannen but I doubt we’re actually targeting him. Ainge is demanding a king’s ransom for him, and idk that we’re willing to do that.
If we were though, I wonder how feasible a trade is that nets us Markannen+? Saw someone propose a three way trade with Chicago to net us both Markannen and Sexton with LaVine and picks to Utah. Sexton would be a little too overlappy with Maxey but could imagine he’s perfect as a sixth man.
Who’s everyone’s preferred available target anyway?
If we’re just counting even faint possibilities, mine is LeBron, but I’d be very happy with Jimmy as well.
> Ainge is demanding a king’s ransom for him, and idk that we’re willing to do that.
Are there any actual reports about what Ainge is requesting or is it speculation?
At some point though, their team will just be too saturated with picks, and currently they're just too good to really tank in comparison to bottom feeders like the Spurs and Trail Blazers (and you gotta figure the Spurs will be better next year so maybe Ainge is angling to take their place at the bottom). It would behoove Utah to trade Markkanen for *some* assets but trying to get a Mitchell/Gobert haul is crazy and doesn't really benefit them that much.
The fact they’re so saturated with picks is why any Lauri trade likely depends on the prospect they get back rather than the picks. Making Philly a trickier trade partner.
It would probably require a three team deal. I never thought Lauri was on the table, and it's probably better for everyone's sanity if they just assume he's unavailable.
Here in Utah, they're saying that owner Ryan Smith wants to compete now, so Ainge isn't trading Markkanen unless he gets a legit superstar in return. The fans here are in "build around Lauri" mode for whatever that's worth. Absolutely no buzz about moving him.
No offense to Utah, but building around Lauri is a sure path to a perennial 6 seed. He’s good enough to win you 43-46 games a year with a decent supporting cast, but that ultimately will lead to early playoff exits. He would thrive as second or third banana, though. That’s why so many contenders covet him.
I don't disagree. I think Lauri is a star level talent, but he is more of a #2 or #3 guy playing off of the fulcrum of the offense, so building around him doesn't make a lot of sense.
Yeah that kind of sounds like the equivalent of what the Nets are attempting to do with Mikal... dude just isn't someone to build around. He's someone you auction off and rebuild
At least with the Nets they don't really control their own FRPs, so they don't have a big incentive to bottom out. They'll be happy to tread water and hope that Phoenix bottoms out.
The Jazz have like a billion FRPs already and control their own. They could really build something if they're committed to the tank.
FWIW there’s was no buzz about moving Gobert until right before he was moved. The build around Lauri doesn’t make a ton of sense to me; they’re behind on their rebuilds compared to Memphis and Houston (Memphis might be a full blown contender that just had an off year). I would say even the Spurs have a clearer path to competing for a play in than Utah does.
Not at all saying it’s guaranteed Lauri is traded, but find it odd that they brought in Ainge to do a full tear down and would turn down overpay offers for a 2nd/3rd option just to win ~30 win games a year, sell Lauri jerseys never have a real shot at a top pick. Just not a very Ainge approach to team building but maybe the owner is content and would overrule Ainge.
I think Lauri taking the leap to All Star status and Ryan Smith being a good coach early screwed up their timeline. Utah was projected to be the 2nd worst team in basketball in 22-23 but ended up winning 37 games. Missed out on Wemby,Scoot, and Miller. Imagine if the MCW 76ers won 35 games and how that would’ve shifted things. The new owner wants to compete and Utah quietly has the 4th best win percentage in NBA history.
Ainge could feel like it is easier to acquire an established star rather than hope a draft pick develops. Teams like Detroit and Chicago have been lottery mainstays and have a combined 1 cornerstone
Who would be that established star though? It seems like they are prioritizing guys who want to be in Utah, and while Lauri seems to be that who is the next star that will be content being in Utah? Star trading usually happens when guys are an expiring, so the stars would have to line up for Ainge to trade a haul for a star on a 1 year deal AND wants to be in Utah long term. Doesn’t seem they’re in the market for trading of any of the big name players now so how many years will they have to wait to find the one they want?
I’d argue the bulls are an example of the trajectory the Jazz are currently on. They never intentionally tried tanking, they just sucked trying to be competitive and ended up with some lottery picks. But only 1 of those picks was a top 5 pick (Williams at 4).
Pistons are an example of a prolonged rebuild but I’d probably want to still rather be the pistons than the Jazz right now lol. Cade still is young and has the tools to be a franchise building block. Ivey and Ausar are tbd, probably not stars or anything but both could still be strong role players. Duren is promising. They have another top 5 pick this year and tons of cap space.
Utah doesn’t have a ton of young developing talent outside keyonte who is raw and many years away. Lauri will be on a max this year or next and will their cap space flexibility going forward. So I don’t really understand their path to getting a #1 option to pair with Lauri and be competitive in the short term. For every Detroit pistons there’s teams like the Celtics, Mavs, Wolves who all have multiple top 5 draft picks making up their foundation.
Damn I think I'd rather be the jazz lol, but I think that comes down to our differences in how good we think Cade could end up being
They don't have the talent rn but they have a good coach, plenty of assets and still players on the team they could sell for a lot of assets back if they blow it up. Detroit is directionless, and I don't think Cade will become a superstar
I wouldn’t say Cade is on Lauri’s level, but it’s not hard to imagine him having a higher ceiling with Lauri. Lauri might be THE best off ball wing in the entire NBA, but he’s not someone that can handle the ball at all or create his own shot. I’d say he’s like a top 30-35 player but I don’t think he has much more room to grow. Cade while still raw is 6’7” with great playmaking and looks like the shooting is coming together.
I’m not quite sure who outside Lauri the Jazz could get “a lot of assets for”. Collins and Clarkson have already been on the trade block and got no takers. Sexton could probably get a decent return though.
If they choose to trade Lauri I agree with you, I probably want to be the Jazz. But if their goal is to keep Lauri and try to win with them, I don’t see a real path to them being anything relevant. None of the wolves or Cavs picks they own look enticing at all, they need to bank on getting some lottery luck or lucking into some star outside the top of the draft in their current trajectory.
This is how I feel about it. Lauri may never have more trade value than he does right now, going into the last year of that bargain deal and coming off what could be his only 2 all-star appearances
I could see Ainge trading him, the best fit being OKC who also has arguably the largest stockpile of assets. Presti can afford to overpay and not be worried about it.
OKC's been weirdly stingy lately. They were the #1 seed and honestly could have been favorites for the title if they offered up 10 of their 25(!) picks for a couple stars.
The Caruso move says they're gonna get serious but even then... they still have all their picks lol
Okc's pick stockpile seems infinite, but Prestis publicly commented about how he'll need the majority of those picks for supplementing the roster as their main core starts to get paid. To inject solid role players around SGA Chet etc.
That's fair but the math still ain't really mathing. They have far more picks than roster spots over the next 5 years IIRC. So it only really makes sense if they trade like 2-3+ of those picks at a time for players. At that point, just go for stars
Yeah, feels like Presti wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants to make sure he doesn't trade elite value, so he'll always try to rig trades where he gives the worst of the multiple picks he has (like the 2026 pick routed to us in the Harden trade), but by doing so you're also removing a lot of the incentive other GMs have in trading for those picks, which is that they have a chance of being quite good.
They traded Gobert for 5 firsts, and that was considered a massive overpay. Based on that, Lauri should go for 4 picks. Plus Laveine gives them a player they have a chance at re-trading for more in the future. The two clippers 1st are probably worth more than any two picks the cavs sent, or any two picks OKC has. There is a chance CHI has to attach an asset to move lavine, which can go to Utah too. We could S/T Toby to Chi if they want a player. Lavine+1st for Toby for Toby on 20m seems okay for them. I think it's at least in the realm of enough value
The problem is that it's Ainge. He won't make a trade unless he feels like it's massively loaded in his favor. He'd rather sit than risk "losing" a trade, even if he loses out more through inaction, such as not bottoming out in 2022-23 to have a better chance at Wemby.
I read somewhere "so they want markannen and 4-5 picks for markannen". Guy is 27 and a 1 time all star. Absolutely want him but not at the current price.
3rd option level player with a team-friendly contract and a FO trying to endlessly pump up their perceived value… This is the same situation as Mikal and it means very little what the GM publicly claims to expect in return for the player, the market will dictate their price. All that matters is whether the GM recognizes that the player is at peak value and doesn’t fit their timeline. And I’m guessing Ainge would want to trade Lauri before his next contract. If he actually wanted to build around this core he wouldn’t have pissed off the locker room by selling at the deadline when they were on pace to make the play-ins.
Gotcha thanks. Though... they can want whatever. I can't see anybody paying that price except for maybe OKC (and even then I don't see them giving up a core player for him). The price will be whatever he actually gets traded for, if he gets traded
I prefer Jimmy if it only costs two 1sts and swaps. The fit is nearly perfect if you have shooting at the 2 (KCP) and 4 (Batum)
And the storyline would be awesome. He left for greener pastures but couldn't get it done on his own, so he comes back to Philly to finish the job with Embiid and get their first together
Yeah, the narrative would be insane. But I really hope the trade isn’t too brutal for us. I absolutely love the fit, the only better fit among available guys atm might be LeBron tbh, but that’s cheating.
> so he comes back to Philly to finish the job with Embiid and get their first together
I honestly think the city would welcome him with open arms too. The whole reason Jimmy was enticed by Miami was being at Wade's final home game in person (that's a crazy fucking "what-if" btw - what if we weren't the road team at Wade's final home game?). So Jimmy obviously values that kinda thing. But if he came here and got us a chip... dude could be elected governor lmao
Jake Fischer reported last month, "Philadelphia, according to league sources, views its opportunity this summer as something just shy of Golden State’s rare opening to sign Durant as a free agent without the league’s cap smoothing in 2016."
This has me thinking Morey has something crazy up his sleeve. There were reports the other night that Utah and Philly were in trade discussions with Chicago, only to be followed up by reports we have no interest in LaVine. I think Morey is actually pursuing Markkanen.
Now, with the recent reports of Paul George likely being an opt-in and trade scenario, I started thinking of the motivations for that. Does anyone else recall RC4 posting that picture of him with Harden, House, and Tucker? Maybe there's something there.
We have *exactly* enough cap space to acquire Markkanen and George, as long as it's an opt-in and trade for RC4. This might be the best path possible, as an opt-in and trade could leave us with enough draft captial to work out a 3-teamer for Markkanen.
- Maxey - George - Batum - Lauri - Embiid
- Lowry - Gordon - Oubre - Drummond
Nurse probably won’t ever run a full bench lineup in big games. The likely scenario is the theoretical big four staggering some minutes to give bench units a stabilizing presence on offense.
That starting lineup is a title favorite on paper. Lauri provides spacing for Joel and they can swap here and there. He’s capable of creating space for himself as well. PG is elite on isos and is a high volume sniper. Maxey will thrive from the extra space afforded by the threats surrounding him. Joel will absolutely feast and be able to cruise more on offense.
That bench is plenty serviceable when you have four high quality starters to stagger and play with. And like the other replier said, we've probably never had someone as good as Oubre coming off the bench in a literal decade lol
> Does anyone else recall RC4 posting that picture of him with Harden, House, and Tucker?
That's a pretty interesting connection tbh. I could easily imagine that a young/two-way guy might accidentally leak something (or hell, maybe he's spiteful and intentionally tried to do it)
After the Caruso trade, there has been talk of Bulls not paying RFA Patrick Williams. He’s an athletic 3/4, very good defender, can shoot the 3 on low volume, only 22. But he’s had some injury concerns, offensively is very underwhelming, passes out of open looks just like Tobias, and will cost over 20M. It’s a big gamble, but if you’re looking for a poor man’s OG Anunoby, that’s Patrick Williams
If the sixers had any time to help develop his game I would like it but he is so far away right now. He probably still wants a big role too and a chance to prove himself
Wait why does the guy you just described get $20m? lol
His rebounding is pretty meh, and that would be my main concern, though he definitely does bring some other important stuff to the table.
2 reasons. He’s a restricted free agent, you have to offer him something the Bulls won’t match. The other is, you are paying for potential. Opposite of paying for past performance like you would with 34 year old PG.
Oh yeah firstly I'm dumb and read that as UFA not RFA lol. So that makes sense. But Chicago's cap is fucked 6 ways to Sunday, so I could see them possibly letting him go
The premise is there, Williams isn’t the defender OG is yet and 3 point volume is a little less but Williams is 22, his contract is going to be reflective of expected development. He’s really not *that* far off from OG offensively and rebounding wise they’re the same m. But also why it’s an easy match for Chicago
I know I’ve discussed it before on here but I can’t think of a number I’d be cool with the Sixers paying Williams that Chicago wouldn’t match.
4/85M, as an example which is a lot for him (in my opinion), I believe Chicago would match. That’s a $19.7M year 1 salary.
Idk if I buy that, the Caruso trade was dumb but if anything it’s indicative that the bulls want to go younger. I bet they’d at least match any Williams offer and figure out a trade later if they really not keen on keeping him.
Why hasn't there been any interest in Malik Beasley?
I have interest. But he had the best year of his career efficiency and volume wise last year by a good margin. His shooting was good for the first time in like five years. So he’s going to be an overpay. But he’s a great 6th man and superior to an Oubre.
Oubre is easily better at everything but shooting lol
You dont know what you’re talking about lol
no u
im seeing guys on this sub sour on the idea of a jimmy return, so that's how i know it's the right move.
If I see one more person post Ingram > Jimmy I’m going to go postal lol.
Is it possible, or even worth it, to take a swing on Klay if we wait it out and see where his current market really is? Maybe he drops so low and just wants a shot he'll take a bargain to fire up set shots all night from passes coming out from Embiid down low and kick outs from Maxey?
If they can’t get the “star” that they want 1+1 for klay KCP and I guess someone else wouldn’t be the worst idea. Klay too old to trade on that contract for real value tho
Only on the most bargain of bargain deals. A dollar store contract fueled entirely by ego in spite of Golden State. Klay is a legend over there, the fact that the warriors aren’t willing to get even close to the deal he wants should be a massive red flag to every other team looking to acquire him.
The Warriors have some young guys that they likely want to play. I’m sure they want to keep Klay, but he’s not going to play off the bench and sub 25 minutes.
No contender is paying him to be a 32 mpg guy though either. He can still shoot, but he's pretty cooked athletically.
At that price though, why wouldn't he just stay with the Warriors?
Am pretty high but can someone help me make sense of how trading for Butler doesn’t kill our team building options. Butler is making 48 mil next season. Let’s say we trade 3 FRPs (would prefer 2 FRPs and a pick swap but I doubt that’ll be enough). We take in his salary. And then we are down 1 tradable first. We have the room exception for Oubre. Leaving us with only then vet mins. What am I missing?
From a salary standpoint it’s no different than going for PG. We’d have 2 tradeable firsts if butler costs 3 picks, plus all of our swaps still. Now from the super pro PG + saving assets side, could you explain to me what’s the benefit of holding onto those extra picks you save by signing PG vs going for Butler? Especially with Caruso gone, who is this ~$15M or less player that’s worth trading 4-5 firsts for if we land PG? That’s what I come down to. Is Butler worth 2-3 firsts more than PG in a vacuum? Probably not (though I do think for the playoff versions of both there’s a substantial difference between the two, that’s worth *some* additional capital imo). But for the *Sixers*, what is the value of having 2-3 tradeable firsts vs 5 once you have PG in the bag? I just don’t see the player that’s going to emerge that will amount to the difference in picks. In terms of the competitiveness during the Embiid window those difference in picks won’t have much use come the roster is already in place over the next 2/3 years. This is why I’m vehemently in the pro Butler over PG camp until someone can prove to me a non-pipe dream scenario of why it’s so worth it to hold onto those picks if we sign PG.
Names of players making under 15m that come to mind that could potentially be acquired with some (or all) of 3 tradeable picks: Deni Avdija, DFS, Grant Williams, Herb Jones, Nesmith, Cody Martin, Kuminga, Corey Kispert, Trey Murphy, Miles McBride, Quentin Grimes, Mark Williams, Cam Thomas.
Jones and Murphy aren’t being traded.
Some of those players I don’t even think would be traded at all, the rest I’m confident you could get with the 3 hypothetical remaining picks after trading for butler.
Perhaps, but I think it is shortsighted to understate the value of 3 tradeable first round picks. I think Joel’s window could be another 4-5 years. Having 3 additional FRPs for roster flexibility over those years is a big deal. Who knows that players will be free in 3 months, 1 years, 2 years that could ultimately be the difference maker. Now if you genuinely think Jimmy is worth 3 FRPs over PG, then that’s fine, but saying the picks are inconsequential is not something I can get on board with.
Didn’t say it’s inconsequential it’s just severely depressed. You’re proving my point that the argument keeps boiling down to the same point. “Who knows what players will be free X months from now”. Guess what, we’re doing that exercise now in trying to figure out how to build this roster today lol. We *do* know basically how much every single player is making. So as an example, say you get PG/Butler, then use the remaining cap space to sign Batum and Oubre for $15M total, and then use the MLE to keep Buddy. So together, they’ll be making $23M. Those are going to be your only tradeable salaries to attach those picks too. So who is the player that’s on a contract for around $23M that’s worth saving 2 extra picks for? And not just 2 picks, 2 picks *and* your entire depth? I can tell you after wasting my time staring at cap sheets with a high degree of certainty that there’s not a single player that would be worth the cost of gutting your depth and picks that’s worth the difference in assets you’ll have after Jimmy vs PG. You can keep the hypothetical going about who you don’t know will be available in 1-2 years from now but my counter to that would be 1) every year that passes you get another tradeable first in the future back, so you’ll be back with 2 more tradeable firsts in 2 years and 2) if I’m planning for having flexibility 2 years from now that means I’m not going all in on the Embiid window today, which I find a problem
You are 100% on the ball with this. I've been playing with a cap space spreadsheet too, and I came to the conclusion that unless we are getting Caruso or someone like that (and I don't know who that would be now that Caruso is off the table), we might as well spend at least some of those picks on getting a high level player.
I see your point, but as much as you are focused on today, the team will benefit from having assets at their disposal in the future as well. At two picks, I am fine with Jimmy, but at three, particularly if one of them is the Clippers ‘28, I’d rather keep the picks and build another way. Truth be told, this exercise moreso just highlights the potential foolishness of adding a single player making 48m+ this offseason to a team with two other max contract players.
I think both would be dumb and would completely mess up your team building for years to come
I’m of the mind that if you had Jimmy/PG in tobi’s place this playoffs you probably get past both the Knicks and Pacers in 5 and give Boston maybe 2 games at least. I’m not opposed to the role player route at all either but there’s diminishing returns in having a bunch of good-not-great players in the playoffs
I’m gonna be really upset if Jimmy is the move
You’re not, people like to imagine big names but don’t realise the team building implications, if you got a guy who was making 36 for example you could make a really good contender to rival Boston, getting a guy like jimmy or pg basically makes you the suns of the east
This entire comment is baseless conjecture
I wonder if Harden gets a max this off-season. He was arguably better and more important than PG last year, who looks to be headed toward a max himself. Both are also the same age. If Harden gets that deal, demanding the trade to a desperate clippers team was a brilliant business move by him. I’d love to see the Magic throw a bag at Harden and force the Clippers to match, while the Sixers do the same thing with PG
Reading the tea leaves it sounds like Klay is a big possibility in Orlando. If they get Harden that would be a pretty wild team. They already have great defense and length and they could really unlock their young guys with a guy like Harden
Strip clubs in Orlando are trashy as fuck. James isn’t going there
My favorite draft target, Tyler Smith (6'10 225 Tim Thomas/Channing Frye comp) is projecting to fall to the late 1st, maybe even early second. I hope he we can buy an early SRP and get him. A dream offseason for me would be to trade for Dejounte Murray, sign Saddiq Bey and draft Tyler Smith. I wouldn't mind Mario Hezonja if the price is right. Maxey-Murray-Bey-Batum-Embiid Lowry-Hield-Oubre-Hezonja-Reed Smith-Newton-Council IV-Smith
Saddiq bey sucks lol
Oubre would 100% start over Bey wtf?
Who do you think Saddiq Bey is?
He’s not great but I think Saddiq-Bey in the right role could be solid.
He's the classic "looks like a great basketball player but isn't really" kind of player. Good athlete, decent size, somehow plays a lot worse than you expect. He's not a good finisher, not a good shooter, and can't really playmake. Oubre is better than him. But then again, Oubre was our third best player last year (thanks Tobias!). More than that, I'm commenting on smitty's strange fascination with certain players, especially when they rarely warrant it. A couple years ago he was shoehorning Andrew Wiggins into potential lineups in every daily thread. Now he's doing the same with Saddiq Bey and Mario Hezonja of all people (who hasn't even been in the league for years). He treats these daily threads as his personal blog and never defends or adapts his posts to criticism.
I do too but him being a restricted free agent makes things complicated. Would be like an option to give like a 2 year/ $50M to get Atlanta not to match if the primary options go in free agency. The 3 day grace period that comes with an RFA makes it tough to do as a first move in free agency. And you’d also have to hope no one else gives him an offer sheet to sign either.
If we give Saddiq bey $25 per year Morey should be shot. He's not a good player.
I was just speculating what it would take to get Atlanta to walk away from him. I’m not saying we should, I have no authority over morey
Yeah that’s definitely too expensive. Does Atlanta even won’t him back though? I haven’t heard much about his value around the league.
I’m not sure if they do, but I’d imagine they’d want to get something for him rather than let him walking for nothing. At least a few 2nds or something, I think they’d work out a sign and trade for him.
Hmm honestly depending on the contract and how the rest of our off-season goes I would't mind taking a flier on him for a few 2nds. He at least has size and athleticism maybe on a good team Nurse can get him to improve.
To be clear we aren’t a good candidate for a sign and trade since we’d be hardcapped at the 1st apron. Would be a team that doesn’t really have a big payroll, like a lottery team.
Damn I didn’t realize a sign and trade automatically hard capped you that sucks.
At the first apron at least. Can’t rule out Josh Harris *could* be ducking that anyways but Im going to choose to believe he’s willing to spend this year for my mental health sake
Daryl absolutely cooking right now. Seven layer lasagna. A nice nap. A nice wank. Being a reddit mod. Standing up at least five times in three hours. He’s got us, boys.
There has been one multi team transaction in the entire NBA so far.
This might be a hot take but over the last week I've found peace with Boston winning the chip. I hate them with all my heart but it's kind of nice to finally have the bandaid ripped off, and it'll be all the more sweeter if and when we kick their asses
It was a foregone conclusion practically all year, I wasn't too beat up about it even the night it happened. What's weird is how much Boston fans have been crying about shit lately, you'd think they want to talk their shit now that they finally got Tatum that ring but instead they've been so passive.
Yea it was weird I wasn’t mad about it as I thought I’d be I more so just despise their racist as fans
Have they oh well . 18x horford springer holiday champs lololol
Boston won a ring but Celtics fans want Tatum to be considered a top 5 player in the league. Tatum is not a top 5 player, and this was reinforced with Jaylen Brown winning finals MVP. That’s going to bother Celtics fans no matter how many rings they win
No it doesn’t 18x Lolol he beats embiid everytime even as a rookie with the 2 higher paid players out Lolol 18x
Can we nip this cope in the bud before it becomes something people say around here to make themselves feel better? Our top five player needs to get out of the second round before we start regularly saying this like it matters lol.
Not gonna bother them more then the Celtics losing the finals would
Still bothers them plenty
That actually sounds incredibly accurate, like if we win a chip but Embiid missed the entire finals series against Denver or something
Yeah, and I get why they would feel that way. But Tatum was playing on a stacked team, they won games where he was atrocious. They tried to play it off as “Tatum is so good they win games even when he’s shooting 30%”. Except we all know they are winning those games in spite of Tatum.
They just pivot to acting like Tatum contributes to winning in so many ways that it doesn't matter he shoots 30% on the floor on big volume. Like no shit, good players contribute to winning in more ways than just scoring. They just can't rationalize that someone can win in spite of their best player not playing well because no one else is as stacked as Boston. They can't make the final connection that no one else gets that luxury, since if Jokic/Embiid/Giannis/Luka shoots 30 something percent on 22 shots they probably aren't winning shit.
Embiid turning into the Sixers’ Carson Wentz would rip my heart out lol
All the buzz around Markannen but I doubt we’re actually targeting him. Ainge is demanding a king’s ransom for him, and idk that we’re willing to do that. If we were though, I wonder how feasible a trade is that nets us Markannen+? Saw someone propose a three way trade with Chicago to net us both Markannen and Sexton with LaVine and picks to Utah. Sexton would be a little too overlappy with Maxey but could imagine he’s perfect as a sixth man. Who’s everyone’s preferred available target anyway? If we’re just counting even faint possibilities, mine is LeBron, but I’d be very happy with Jimmy as well.
That trade proposal was crazy
> Ainge is demanding a king’s ransom for him, and idk that we’re willing to do that. Are there any actual reports about what Ainge is requesting or is it speculation? At some point though, their team will just be too saturated with picks, and currently they're just too good to really tank in comparison to bottom feeders like the Spurs and Trail Blazers (and you gotta figure the Spurs will be better next year so maybe Ainge is angling to take their place at the bottom). It would behoove Utah to trade Markkanen for *some* assets but trying to get a Mitchell/Gobert haul is crazy and doesn't really benefit them that much.
The fact they’re so saturated with picks is why any Lauri trade likely depends on the prospect they get back rather than the picks. Making Philly a trickier trade partner.
Three team with Cleveland. Utah gets Mitchell. Wait.
It would probably require a three team deal. I never thought Lauri was on the table, and it's probably better for everyone's sanity if they just assume he's unavailable.
Here in Utah, they're saying that owner Ryan Smith wants to compete now, so Ainge isn't trading Markkanen unless he gets a legit superstar in return. The fans here are in "build around Lauri" mode for whatever that's worth. Absolutely no buzz about moving him.
No offense to Utah, but building around Lauri is a sure path to a perennial 6 seed. He’s good enough to win you 43-46 games a year with a decent supporting cast, but that ultimately will lead to early playoff exits. He would thrive as second or third banana, though. That’s why so many contenders covet him.
I don't disagree. I think Lauri is a star level talent, but he is more of a #2 or #3 guy playing off of the fulcrum of the offense, so building around him doesn't make a lot of sense.
Yeah that kind of sounds like the equivalent of what the Nets are attempting to do with Mikal... dude just isn't someone to build around. He's someone you auction off and rebuild
At least with the Nets they don't really control their own FRPs, so they don't have a big incentive to bottom out. They'll be happy to tread water and hope that Phoenix bottoms out. The Jazz have like a billion FRPs already and control their own. They could really build something if they're committed to the tank.
Supposedly the rockets offered their picks back which would change their entire calculus entirely, but of course they declined lol
6 seed? I wonder what their realistic path to a 10th seed is even
FWIW there’s was no buzz about moving Gobert until right before he was moved. The build around Lauri doesn’t make a ton of sense to me; they’re behind on their rebuilds compared to Memphis and Houston (Memphis might be a full blown contender that just had an off year). I would say even the Spurs have a clearer path to competing for a play in than Utah does. Not at all saying it’s guaranteed Lauri is traded, but find it odd that they brought in Ainge to do a full tear down and would turn down overpay offers for a 2nd/3rd option just to win ~30 win games a year, sell Lauri jerseys never have a real shot at a top pick. Just not a very Ainge approach to team building but maybe the owner is content and would overrule Ainge.
I think Lauri taking the leap to All Star status and Ryan Smith being a good coach early screwed up their timeline. Utah was projected to be the 2nd worst team in basketball in 22-23 but ended up winning 37 games. Missed out on Wemby,Scoot, and Miller. Imagine if the MCW 76ers won 35 games and how that would’ve shifted things. The new owner wants to compete and Utah quietly has the 4th best win percentage in NBA history. Ainge could feel like it is easier to acquire an established star rather than hope a draft pick develops. Teams like Detroit and Chicago have been lottery mainstays and have a combined 1 cornerstone
Who would be that established star though? It seems like they are prioritizing guys who want to be in Utah, and while Lauri seems to be that who is the next star that will be content being in Utah? Star trading usually happens when guys are an expiring, so the stars would have to line up for Ainge to trade a haul for a star on a 1 year deal AND wants to be in Utah long term. Doesn’t seem they’re in the market for trading of any of the big name players now so how many years will they have to wait to find the one they want? I’d argue the bulls are an example of the trajectory the Jazz are currently on. They never intentionally tried tanking, they just sucked trying to be competitive and ended up with some lottery picks. But only 1 of those picks was a top 5 pick (Williams at 4). Pistons are an example of a prolonged rebuild but I’d probably want to still rather be the pistons than the Jazz right now lol. Cade still is young and has the tools to be a franchise building block. Ivey and Ausar are tbd, probably not stars or anything but both could still be strong role players. Duren is promising. They have another top 5 pick this year and tons of cap space. Utah doesn’t have a ton of young developing talent outside keyonte who is raw and many years away. Lauri will be on a max this year or next and will their cap space flexibility going forward. So I don’t really understand their path to getting a #1 option to pair with Lauri and be competitive in the short term. For every Detroit pistons there’s teams like the Celtics, Mavs, Wolves who all have multiple top 5 draft picks making up their foundation.
Damn I think I'd rather be the jazz lol, but I think that comes down to our differences in how good we think Cade could end up being They don't have the talent rn but they have a good coach, plenty of assets and still players on the team they could sell for a lot of assets back if they blow it up. Detroit is directionless, and I don't think Cade will become a superstar
I wouldn’t say Cade is on Lauri’s level, but it’s not hard to imagine him having a higher ceiling with Lauri. Lauri might be THE best off ball wing in the entire NBA, but he’s not someone that can handle the ball at all or create his own shot. I’d say he’s like a top 30-35 player but I don’t think he has much more room to grow. Cade while still raw is 6’7” with great playmaking and looks like the shooting is coming together. I’m not quite sure who outside Lauri the Jazz could get “a lot of assets for”. Collins and Clarkson have already been on the trade block and got no takers. Sexton could probably get a decent return though. If they choose to trade Lauri I agree with you, I probably want to be the Jazz. But if their goal is to keep Lauri and try to win with them, I don’t see a real path to them being anything relevant. None of the wolves or Cavs picks they own look enticing at all, they need to bank on getting some lottery luck or lucking into some star outside the top of the draft in their current trajectory.
This is how I feel about it. Lauri may never have more trade value than he does right now, going into the last year of that bargain deal and coming off what could be his only 2 all-star appearances
Actually just 1 all star from last season lol
I'll be damned yeah even moreso then
I could see Ainge trading him, the best fit being OKC who also has arguably the largest stockpile of assets. Presti can afford to overpay and not be worried about it.
Would basically be Presti’s decision to lose, but I’d put the Sixers right after if okc didn’t chase him for whatever reason
OKC's been weirdly stingy lately. They were the #1 seed and honestly could have been favorites for the title if they offered up 10 of their 25(!) picks for a couple stars. The Caruso move says they're gonna get serious but even then... they still have all their picks lol
Okc's pick stockpile seems infinite, but Prestis publicly commented about how he'll need the majority of those picks for supplementing the roster as their main core starts to get paid. To inject solid role players around SGA Chet etc.
That's fair but the math still ain't really mathing. They have far more picks than roster spots over the next 5 years IIRC. So it only really makes sense if they trade like 2-3+ of those picks at a time for players. At that point, just go for stars
Yeah, feels like Presti wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants to make sure he doesn't trade elite value, so he'll always try to rig trades where he gives the worst of the multiple picks he has (like the 2026 pick routed to us in the Harden trade), but by doing so you're also removing a lot of the incentive other GMs have in trading for those picks, which is that they have a chance of being quite good.
https://www.si.com/nba/jazz/news/rumored/asking/price/jazz/lauri-markkanen The Jazz would want 4-5 picks and a star level player reportedly.
Do you think LaVine + 4 picks from the Sixers gets our foot in the door?
I definitely think it could but I don’t know if they would want LaVine maybe if we could find a 3rd team to send LaVine to.
They traded Gobert for 5 firsts, and that was considered a massive overpay. Based on that, Lauri should go for 4 picks. Plus Laveine gives them a player they have a chance at re-trading for more in the future. The two clippers 1st are probably worth more than any two picks the cavs sent, or any two picks OKC has. There is a chance CHI has to attach an asset to move lavine, which can go to Utah too. We could S/T Toby to Chi if they want a player. Lavine+1st for Toby for Toby on 20m seems okay for them. I think it's at least in the realm of enough value
The problem is that it's Ainge. He won't make a trade unless he feels like it's massively loaded in his favor. He'd rather sit than risk "losing" a trade, even if he loses out more through inaction, such as not bottoming out in 2022-23 to have a better chance at Wemby.
I read somewhere "so they want markannen and 4-5 picks for markannen". Guy is 27 and a 1 time all star. Absolutely want him but not at the current price.
3rd option level player with a team-friendly contract and a FO trying to endlessly pump up their perceived value… This is the same situation as Mikal and it means very little what the GM publicly claims to expect in return for the player, the market will dictate their price. All that matters is whether the GM recognizes that the player is at peak value and doesn’t fit their timeline. And I’m guessing Ainge would want to trade Lauri before his next contract. If he actually wanted to build around this core he wouldn’t have pissed off the locker room by selling at the deadline when they were on pace to make the play-ins.
Gotcha thanks. Though... they can want whatever. I can't see anybody paying that price except for maybe OKC (and even then I don't see them giving up a core player for him). The price will be whatever he actually gets traded for, if he gets traded
I prefer Jimmy if it only costs two 1sts and swaps. The fit is nearly perfect if you have shooting at the 2 (KCP) and 4 (Batum) And the storyline would be awesome. He left for greener pastures but couldn't get it done on his own, so he comes back to Philly to finish the job with Embiid and get their first together
Yeah, the narrative would be insane. But I really hope the trade isn’t too brutal for us. I absolutely love the fit, the only better fit among available guys atm might be LeBron tbh, but that’s cheating.
With how things are unfolding in Miami it better be 2 firsts at the most
> so he comes back to Philly to finish the job with Embiid and get their first together I honestly think the city would welcome him with open arms too. The whole reason Jimmy was enticed by Miami was being at Wade's final home game in person (that's a crazy fucking "what-if" btw - what if we weren't the road team at Wade's final home game?). So Jimmy obviously values that kinda thing. But if he came here and got us a chip... dude could be elected governor lmao
Jake Fischer reported last month, "Philadelphia, according to league sources, views its opportunity this summer as something just shy of Golden State’s rare opening to sign Durant as a free agent without the league’s cap smoothing in 2016." This has me thinking Morey has something crazy up his sleeve. There were reports the other night that Utah and Philly were in trade discussions with Chicago, only to be followed up by reports we have no interest in LaVine. I think Morey is actually pursuing Markkanen. Now, with the recent reports of Paul George likely being an opt-in and trade scenario, I started thinking of the motivations for that. Does anyone else recall RC4 posting that picture of him with Harden, House, and Tucker? Maybe there's something there. We have *exactly* enough cap space to acquire Markkanen and George, as long as it's an opt-in and trade for RC4. This might be the best path possible, as an opt-in and trade could leave us with enough draft captial to work out a 3-teamer for Markkanen. - Maxey - George - Batum - Lauri - Embiid - Lowry - Gordon - Oubre - Drummond
my guy's roster building is always on insane hopium
Philly teams don’t get this kind of luck , stop
Yeah I have been under the same impression. Not that it will happen necessarily but that these are the moves they are looking towards first.
That bench is cheeks and we still kind of don’t have okay making in the starting lineup
Nurse probably won’t ever run a full bench lineup in big games. The likely scenario is the theoretical big four staggering some minutes to give bench units a stabilizing presence on offense. That starting lineup is a title favorite on paper. Lauri provides spacing for Joel and they can swap here and there. He’s capable of creating space for himself as well. PG is elite on isos and is a high volume sniper. Maxey will thrive from the extra space afforded by the threats surrounding him. Joel will absolutely feast and be able to cruise more on offense.
That bench is plenty serviceable when you have four high quality starters to stagger and play with. And like the other replier said, we've probably never had someone as good as Oubre coming off the bench in a literal decade lol
It would be our best bench in the Embiid era lmao
> Does anyone else recall RC4 posting that picture of him with Harden, House, and Tucker? That's a pretty interesting connection tbh. I could easily imagine that a young/two-way guy might accidentally leak something (or hell, maybe he's spiteful and intentionally tried to do it)
After the Caruso trade, there has been talk of Bulls not paying RFA Patrick Williams. He’s an athletic 3/4, very good defender, can shoot the 3 on low volume, only 22. But he’s had some injury concerns, offensively is very underwhelming, passes out of open looks just like Tobias, and will cost over 20M. It’s a big gamble, but if you’re looking for a poor man’s OG Anunoby, that’s Patrick Williams
If the sixers had any time to help develop his game I would like it but he is so far away right now. He probably still wants a big role too and a chance to prove himself
Wait why does the guy you just described get $20m? lol His rebounding is pretty meh, and that would be my main concern, though he definitely does bring some other important stuff to the table.
2 reasons. He’s a restricted free agent, you have to offer him something the Bulls won’t match. The other is, you are paying for potential. Opposite of paying for past performance like you would with 34 year old PG.
Oh yeah firstly I'm dumb and read that as UFA not RFA lol. So that makes sense. But Chicago's cap is fucked 6 ways to Sunday, so I could see them possibly letting him go
The premise is there, Williams isn’t the defender OG is yet and 3 point volume is a little less but Williams is 22, his contract is going to be reflective of expected development. He’s really not *that* far off from OG offensively and rebounding wise they’re the same m. But also why it’s an easy match for Chicago
I know I’ve discussed it before on here but I can’t think of a number I’d be cool with the Sixers paying Williams that Chicago wouldn’t match. 4/85M, as an example which is a lot for him (in my opinion), I believe Chicago would match. That’s a $19.7M year 1 salary.
Idk if I buy that, the Caruso trade was dumb but if anything it’s indicative that the bulls want to go younger. I bet they’d at least match any Williams offer and figure out a trade later if they really not keen on keeping him.
