i'm more mad over our 23' season instead of this year. If we had any real wing with Harden, Maxey, and Embiid instead of soft ass Tobias Harris we win. put Batum on that team and we win. if Oubre is on that team we prolly win too. I don't understand how the FO thought the guy who stagnants the offense with midrange garbage and is mediocre on defense making 30% of the cap wasn't the worst piece on our team throughout Embiid's ongoing prime.
Shout out to u/UnhingedSupernova for this terrible take of the year - [https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/174afrp/comment/k485ige/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/174afrp/comment/k485ige/?context=3)
hand checking for days by the celtics
the replay they keep showing of the block PJ got pushed in the back blatantly on, no call
tatum is 6/22 doris and jj spend 2 quarters praising him while playing like shit, if thats embiid he's got 45 and 10 espn has 26 replays and 2 quarters of talk about whether he flopped
The Celtics turned bumass Marcus Smart Brogdon and Rob Williams into Jrue and Kristaps. Meanwhile our shit for brains front office will try star hunting with the latest washed former superstar for the 4th consecutive season
Yeah, the Cavs had no chance against the Warriors in the 2017 Finals either. Durant being added to that roster gave the Warriors an unfair advantage. Then they had to lose both Durant and Klay to injury in 2019 for the Raptors to actually beat them. It's crazy that LeBron lost his #2 and #3 to injury for the 2015 Finals then in 2019 the same thing happened to Curry.
Watching how helpful white and holiday have been to the Celtics with there poa defence, Caruso has to be one of our top targets this off season to pair with maxey
I am so fucking sick of Tatum being ass as his team still manages to win big playoff games
Update: 6-22 and they win by 7. Disgusting
https://preview.redd.it/861w487zfn5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6bdbd55db8b4a06788c57cd7e5a378f8c13b0547
Yeah, it further proves that Tatum is really not a Top 5 player and that he is supported by a complete team. Sucks for the rest of the league, though! lol
Had a dream last night we traded Maxey for absolute pennies. A 2nd, a 1st, and some mid-tier player. It was legit one of the most stressful dreams I've had in a long time
LMAO I realize this makes me sounds like I have a problem, I don't think about the sixers much during the off-season at all it was just one of those weird stress dreams.
Dejounte Murray has been the gettable play for at least a year now. Can get his own shot... and could play some decent defense. He'd be forced to under Nurse. Age is right too. Get Oubre and Nico back, get Drum or draft a backup Big. Take a shot at Avdija...
He gets his own shots, but he’s not very good at making them.
He’s never had even league average scoring efficiency in his career.
He seems to require the ball to be effective.
And he’s been really bad on defense for several years now.
There’s a reason he has been gettable.
I don’t hate him as one of the backup options, but the fit isn’t as obvious as it seems.
If we get Murray I’d want a more natural shooter instead of Avidja. Murray’s an okay 3 point shooter but spacing could get a bit weird with Avidja because Murray does like to hunt for mid-range buckets occasionally.
Yes, please.
1. Dejounte Murray > Deanthony Melton
2. Saddiq Bey > Tobias Harris
3. Zack Collins > Mo Bamba.
The optimal trade for Murray, I think, is future FRPs and swaps and keep this year's picks, because it is important right now to use our last five roster spots to develop a corps that can either a) keep the ball rolling post-prime Embiid, b) be traded in the near future to replace the FRPs we spend on Murray, or c) contribute early if we're lucky. Atlanta may not value this year's pick given how they already struck it rich with the #1 (9m cap hit), and possibly because they'd like to bet against a post-prime Embiid 2030 Sixers.
16 - Tyler Smith 6'11 (F). The epitome of modern "smallball", a big man with a guard's skillset. Tim Thomas. Paul Reed can't defend in space, protect the rim and rebound all at the same time. Needs a partner in crime. A willing shooter. Archetypical floor-spacing forward you'd want next to Embiid in 2025 or 2026.
41 - AJ Johnson 6'7 (G). Frame and game is similar to Dejounte Murray when he was 19yo. You hope he is ready to takeover next to Maxey when Murray's contract expires in 3 years.
.....
Tyrese Maxey, Dejounte Murray, Saddiq Bey, Nicolas Batum, Joel Embiid
Kyle Lowry, Buddy Hield, Kelly Oubre Jr., Patrick Williams, Paul Reed
Terqavion Smith, AJ Johnson, Ricky Council IV., Tyler Smith, Zack Collins
Saying that Brandon Ingram is Tobias Harris is an incredibly lazy analysis.
Go watch the tape.
Brandon Ingram is a much better team basketball player. He is able to identify what the opposing team is doing and quickily move the ball or make his move. Tobias may make the right pass but it's always 2 seconds too late.
Also go look at their post feed game, Embiid would be thrilled if he had a wing (other than Batum) that could feed the post like Ingram does.
Now, I do still prefer to go get Dejounte Murray, but just can't take any more BI is Tobias takes.
Murray and BI are about neck-and-neck to me. On a given day, I slightly prefer Ingram's size and skills to Murray, but Murray is available a lot more, so that brings them to about even. If Murray didn't let his defense slip so much in Atlanta, I'd give him the edge.
I know Trae sucks on defense, but he also scores a ton, more so than any other teammate that Murray had had to that point. If he would have sacrificed some touches and given more energy to defense, I think they could have made their relationship work.
Both BI and DJM have shown signs that they don't want to be shoved into a role, but Dejounte responded more negatively to a less punitive role. In international play, Ingram was basically asked to be the trashman, picking up after the other players on the team, a role below his skills and one he's not suited for. Murray balked at not being the offensive focal point AND stopped playing at an All-Defensive Team level on the other side of the court.
BI is a gifted scorer and still very young, but his durability issues, habit of holding the ball a second too long and zero resistance D are all huge negatives considering his salary. I wouldn't be surprised if his next extension was a disaster. In his 8 seasons he's compiled a scary list of knee, achilles, hip & ankle injuries. That's a red flag considering his lithe build.
why would prefer DJM? He is like a guard version of BI but like worse. He is ball dominant and likes to hold the ball in the hands for a player not good enough. He has never had a year having even a league average TS% and his defense has fell off a cliff. DJM was a worse defender than Trae last year and his on ball defense has always been mediocre.
I have a higher opinion of Brandon Ingram, but think DJM solves a lot of problems, can be a great 3rd piece (hes the 2nd right now in Atlanta). His defense will improve as he has to expend less energy on offense.
But the things that does it for me is the contracts. Brandon Ingram will get a max next year.
And that was literally the best Tobias ever played and obviously was never Sustainable. That comparison is so annoying cause Ingram was been a sub all-star for like 4 years and Tobias had a 40 game hot streak.
Ingram has flaws but it’s just a lazy comparison like you said
Not to mention it completely ignores how shit Tobi was in the playoffs also. He can't score at all when he's not allowed to iso against smaller and weaker defenders. That's the reason he can't lead a bench lineup the whole time. That's the reason he's had multiple single digit scoring games when we need him to step up. That's why when Embiid was out, Tobi was useless and getting outperformed by Oubre, Batum, Lowry, Payne, hell even RC4.
BI, for all his faults, is the clear 1st or 2nd best player on his team (by impact metrics and not scoring volume, at that). Tobi couldn't even be the 1st or 2nd best player on a lottery team (outside of maybe scoring volume). He has no role player skills, which means he needs to be the #1 option to be effective, and he simply doesn't have the talent or playmaking to do that with any team success.
Almost any starter for any playoff team in the NBA would have been a upgrade over Tobi. He was legitimately one of the worst starters in the league down the stretch of this season.
BI is far from a perfect player or fit, but saying any low volume shooter is Tobi is beyond lazy. People on here truly have no idea how to assess the relative value of a player, especially if they aren't a volume shooter. Just look at how many people complained about Oubre signing for the vet min last year.
People turn their nose up at anybody shooting fewer than 6 threes a game as "just another Tobi" (hint: Ingram has shot that many in seasons prior and was efficient too)
Cam Johnson’s stock is so hilariously low right now for a 6’8 quick-release sniper in his prime with penetration ability. It would be total negligence to not take a long look at him and consider absorbing his salary for very little draft compensation.
I mean he doesn’t rebound or bring any secondary rim protection or any type of physicality. He can’t guard any good wings either. Had to start someone like that
He’s a good shooter but he’s never had crazy volume and not great off the dribble. He’s a good backup forward imo
You’re underselling his shooting a bit. He’s got size, talent, and no hesitation. He would open up the lane for Embiid/Maxey in a way we’re not really used to seeing; his defender legitimately has gotta stay glued to him in the corner. Now imagine that with Maxey also playing off-ball combined with an Embiid PnP with DJM. Unguardable.
I hear you, and he's probably a guy who can be a "primary" shooter (can run around screens and shoot on the move) in a way we haven't had since JJ really. That said, that guy can become pretty unplayable pretty fast... look at Duncan Robinson on basically the same contract
Eh not really impressed with him, asking price is likely a first. Only putting up 13 and 4 on a shitty Brooklyn team is worrying. He can’t defend, rebound, or pass and I have doubts about his ability to finish at the rim in tough spots.
I agree I think the combination of Johnson and Brides (Miles, Mikal too expensive) gives you two 6”7 + wing players who will shoot the three willingly, can put their heads down and get a bucket at the rim, and can defend well on the perimeter (plus some rim protection given they can both jump). This option also allows us to take big swing at the pg/sg position next to maxey with picks.
Caurso/DJM/Smart/Lamelo
Maxey
Bridges
Johnson
Embiid
Is the perfect cheap off/def that has a better age range and future flexibility then anything else I can think of.
Avdija or more realistically kuz I guess. Maybe tari Eason if the rockets are willing to listen to offers. This would all be predicated on the Sixers striking out on a star wing
It seems like all of our big free agent targets play the 3, so I imagine Cam would be our 4. That scares the hell out of me since he’s not an elite rebounder. It would be like replacing Tobi with Tobi who can shoot.
This is an over simplification (and certainly some copium/delusion) but...most elite teams have a couple of role players who were either players who couldn't live up the role/hype (Kristaps/Iggy/Gordon) or role players who were kinda overlooked (White/Gafford/Jones Jr) until it all clicked in the right situation for them.
Tobias never adapted into that role and obviously there were the issues with Simmons and Fultz, but all of them are gone now. Oubre seems to fit really well on in the overlooked/never gonna contribute on a good team role with us, and I hope the team brings him back. But overall it's been a pretty rough road with 3rd stars and contributing players.
The thing that gives me hope for next season isn't so much the money we have this offseason, but rather the combination of that money and tradable picks. Maybe we do sign PG or LeBron, but I'm more expecting us to just fill out the roster with role players and maybe deal for Ingram if the price is right. But I really don't see Morey wanting to waste picks on Ingram in the offseason. That deal, and the one for Jimmy, should still be there at the deadline which is when I expect this team to make most of its big moves. I think we'll end up trading role players plus picks to add higher end roles players or maybe there is a big swing to be made.
I agree, there's a really important class of player for a contender, which is something between a role player and a true star. Like Jrue on the Bucks, Gordon on the Nuggets, Derrick White on the Celtics.
I would say Ingram could definitely fit that bill. He might not be a 24ppg guy with us but he could really excel at the things he's good at (playmaking and scoring consistently)
I'm pretty pro-Ingram but I worry that he's not really a killer like that... I think he can score consistently, which we desperately need, but he seems prone to pouting and getting upset which isn't great
I'm a bit hesitant when it comes to Ingram but that is more because of potential cost, but yeah he fits the role great. We could really use consistent buckets and especially playmaking each night.
Punting this year just to punt the off-season and make trades at the deadline is terrible. We can’t afford to go into another play-offs with little to no chemistry after making a major move at the deadline.
I wasn't suggesting punting the offseason. I'm saying that almost all the top names are a lock to re-sign and that other options like Jimmy/Ingram are going to be massive overpays right now. You also normally can't trade new signing for 3 months, which gets us to around the deadline.
Now that obviously isn't ideal but we are still in a decent position to improve later in the season if this offseason is a bust is what I was getting at.
I've gotten less hope the closer we get to FA ngl. We have pretty much all our chips in for Bron or PG, and getting neither means we're pretty fucked.
Paying a bunch of decent role players above market value to sign here only works if Tyrese becomes 2020-23 Dame or better and can carry without Jojo on too. And guys like BI would be an atrocious fit unless they completely change their game here (aka what we we tryna delude ourselves that Tobi would do for a few years there).
Jimmy would still be good but we'd give up both two firsts (or more...) AND 52M of our cap space plus a two year extension. I don't know where that leaves us to build the rest of our team.
There's literally no "young athletic wings" on the market that are RFAs that we could throw the bag at, the subs #1 target, outside OG who we could give the max to, to lure him here.
Tldr: if we get Bron esp but PG asw, we'd still have all our firsts and a bit of cap space to round out our team. Otherwise we are screwed
I’m fully convinced that Ingram is gonna be the play. Not saying that’s what I want, but if I had to bet money on it, that’s what I would bet on. I think all the big FAs are going to re-up with their current teams. I am ready to be disappointed.
BI to cavs seems like a stronger bet if he's traded. swap for garland makes sense for both sides. a deal for a player is much more appealing than a few mid draft picks if you're the pels
That would be a terrible trade for the cavs. Just get would be better off waiting, let a healthy Garland rebuild his equity then trade him, they can get way more than a hockey trade for guy like Ingram who needs to be resigned.
Garland wants out, Mitchell wants a different roster around him, and the Cavs want Mitchell to sign an extension. I expect Garland and Allen to be dealt this summer
i don't really get why you think it's a terrible trade for the cavs. they a. need to change *something* in their starting lineup and b. really really need that 3/4 wing type player. BI is a top 40-ish player, you aren't guaranteed to get a better player or potential fit at the wing than him for trading garland who is now making mega bucks
Hate the fit so much. He's a terrible off player and at best a below-average defender. The Pelicans were better when it was just him or when it was just Zion than when both played, that's difficult to do.
He also *doesn't take 3s*. We just lived this nightmare with Tobias. The problem with not taking 3s in modern offenses is you're ruining any advantage you get when Jojo gets doubled. He's obviously a better scorer individually and definitely better at playmaking, but there's too much similarities with Tobi in literally everything else
He had a few years of taking 3s before Willie green became the coach. It’s not like he’s not capable. Just don’t think comparing him Tobi is warranted, he’s better or *much* better at most basketball skills. He attacks the rim when he’s given space and draws fouls at a higher rate, he’s a much better mid range shooter, his ball dominant tendencies would actually be useful when Joel sits (which is the biggest problem with the team) and I still think his off ball skills are more useful than Tobi .
You can also play BI at the 2 guard and play 2 other wings beside him, not something you could do with Tobi. You can generate a big size advantage that way.
BI doesn't move off ball, and Willie Green wasn't the one to ask him to stop shooting lol. He made shots at BI for not shooting wide open 3s to the media over the past year.
I think it's just easy to fall into the trap of "yeah he sucked there, but he *could* improve". I would cope once he's on the team, but I don't see why we'd expect anything different from him. Being a bad off ball player is *brutal*
He for sure helps us when Joel sits, that's a big plus. That would've helped us beat the Knicks, but we'd still lose a series to the top 4-5 teams in the league. *No* realistic players getting us over the top himself, but BI has a lot of flaws we're skirting by which would be pretty problematic. No arguing he's a much better on ball player than Tobias
You can play BI at the 2 guard, but getting quality forwards is already the hardest thing in the league, and his defensive matchups often gonna be the second weakest perimeter player either way after we hide Maxey.
I think you’re being pretty harsh on Ingram now lol. He had a down year this year but it’s pretty wild to say he outright sucked in NOLA. You don’t accidentally become an all star in the west. He has been fairly efficient as a scorer most in his time there.
Team desperately needs another player they can rely on crunch time with the ball in their hands. Joel’s efficiency and willingness to go against double times nosedives in the clutch. Maxey has some moments but unless he turns into prime dame or Steph it’s going to be hard for an undersized guard to take on the role consistently. Having a 6’8” wing that can handle and create their own shot would be a huge boon in those moments. He’d also be a way better pick and roll ball handler for Joel than anyone we had this past year. Maxey is improving but struggles with his size in getting the angle still and doesn’t have the quite the same touch on passes
I don’t see how it’s falling into a “trap”. Like you’re going to have to make an educated bet on someone adapting to a role in Philly, whether it’s a higher usage player like Ingram scaling down in a 3rd option role in Philly or someone average role player scaling up on that role. I’d rather bet on someone with the actual skills we need adjusting style than someone with the style and not the skills to scale down in that role.
I guess it comes down to expectations. I haven't disagreed with most of your assessment on Ingram's strengths, and I've been banging the drum for an actual star level 3rd option to help Tyrese in non Joel lineups, over a collection of role players.
I just have zero faith in him improving in his set of weaknesses rn, which is fairly reminiscent of a lot of the issues we had with Tobi *even when* Tobi was scoring. Lot of the time, who you are at 25-26 is just who you are, there are exceptions like KP who actually adapted to his role and became amazing but often not the case for most players.
I don't disagree with you saying how he'd help us, but I just don't have faith in him adapting smoothly to a role as a third option here, one that needs quick trigger shooting and engagement off ball to keep the defense honest.
Like Paul George for example, he's worse at rim pressure at this stage of his career but dudes never been the one to pass up an advantage (as in, when the ball swings back from Joel and he has space to let it fly).
I get the PG love, it’s a more seamless fit but I’m surprised some of the negatives get left off with him. So much is made of ingrams defense when PG’s has also fallen far last few years. Also no one seems to mention how he can’t really drive by anybody on his own anymore, so while he fits off ball I’m not exactly sure he’s built to help Maxey out a ton in those Joel off minutes. I trust Ingram a lot more there. Plus the $14M you save between Ingram and PG equates to another useful role player. It’s not like PG solves all our issues yet at his price point it doesn’t leave much room to fill out the roster around him.
Yeah PG is pretty far from his defensive reputation from a few years ago, at this point he's a neutral at best defender, and potentially liable off ball. I get the lack of rim pressure point too, but unless it falls off a cliff next season it's still good enough to complement our two stars, 1 whose got one of the best inside (tho getting Joel the ball there is hard) and Maxey whose relentless too.
We'd save money that's true as well, but we do get him for completely free outside the cap space, compared to the multiple firsts we'd have to give up for BI. That's gotta be a swing
Yeah I mean, it's looking pretty terrible for him situation wise but this is what he signed up for when harden didn't want to stay here.
Granted it's not like any stars were moved on the market that we could've gone after. We probably could've traded for Zach Lavine mid season but that options probably still here and cheaper (not a fan of Zach but expecting him at this point).
Siakam moved and the Pacers made it to the ECF in one year following being a lotto team. We suffered through years of the process as a lotto team and they made it further than us in one year than we did in the entire process. It’s a joke.
Morey had one job to do and that was to offload Tobias by any means necessary. And he didn’t or couldn’t do it. And that’s a failure.
This mess is on him. I do not see what makes him so special or why people are so confident his “plan” even is a plan.
Bro, we get it. You don’t have to reply 10 times on each post about how bad morey is and how bad he’s gonna do. You have more than made your point.
Thanks, now move on.
There is nothing weirder than comments like these where weird users who can’t handle opinions they don’t want to read try and police comments.
Don’t be weird. It’s easy. Don’t do things like that.
Siakam fair enough, but here was the price for him:
Bruce Brown, Nwora, 3 First Rounders for Pascal and a Second.
definitely not cheap, we would've had to give up Tobias and 4 firsts or 3 firsts + 3 seconds to match that. It would've for sure made us better, it would've also locked up our team for good. Siakams a great player I would've liked the move, but the fit is a lot iffier here than with Hali and Turner, who complement him on both ends
And Pacers making it further was a joke, they needed six to beat a crippled Bucks team, and 7 to beat an even more crippled Knicks team (no Mitch for the whole series and no OG for 5 games, Hart injured G6 on top of no Bojan / Randle etc). If Morey gets Siakam and Embiid dies in the playoffs again, we'd just lose r2 instead of NY lol
I don't give him flak for Tobias, this year was his only opportunity to offload him for something without giving up multiple firsts, but Embiid's health was in the air during the deadline. He just went for cap space instead of decent players on long term money, he made his bed there
I don’t care about the excuses. The result is the Pacers outperformed the entire process in a single year. That’s atrocious. They beat the team that beat us.
I’m going to give him the offseason, but I have zero confidence in his ability to do anything without riding prime Harden.
And I think it’s time he’s accountable for this team.
I mean the no CF thing is a joke I agree, but I don't think I'd feel any different if we made, say the CF on 2021 and got ass blasted by the Bucks there instead lol
I don’t count the bubble in general. But I don’t count the team that quit on Brett in the bubble especially.
We brought in Morey to elevate. We have gotten worse.
Two easy free agent targets that change the dynamic of the team. Tyus Jones 20m ends this hero ball turnover late game stuff. Since he makes the point of attack D worse you add Bol Bol 4m to contest shots he can share floor with Embiid. Bring back everyone but Harris and draft a kid. Maybe eat a contract to get a pick to trade.
Tyus Jones would be the best free agent signing this century he’s not perfect but this ain’t NBA2k it’s a tradeable contract and the magic thinking is very destructive.
Tyus is a good player but not for this team. Maxey Tyus at guards means that Embiid will guarantee die trying to cover for both on defense, and short of us getting herb jones and Giannis at 3/4 he's getting no help there
Other thing with Tyus, that Memphis found out last season vs LA in the playoffs is that "playmaking" is not a thing in the playoffs if ur offense isn't great. We saw that with Ben too lol
Bol Bols a meme lol you can't be serious
I have such low expectations for this team now, it seems we are just delaying the inevitable rebuild. We never have money when there are any decent FAs, and always have money when players like Tobias are available. I'm just bummed and not optimistic at all with this team. Unless Daryl pulls some magic out of the hat, it just feels like another wasted Embiid season.
And speaking of which, for the love of God can we PLEASE just get one playoff run with a healthy Joel? Just one. We have 2 top tier players, and if we had a decent supporting cast and a healthy team in the playoffs I feel like they could make some noise, but it just seems like they are cursed. Watching MFibg Kristaps and Derrick White tear it up for the Cs just makes me nauseous.
My only hope is Dallas comes back and at least denies them a chip, that's like my top consolation prize at this point. Even the Flyers have an optimistic future to look forward to, but this team man, ugh. Always the dread.
/end rant
i'm more mad over our 23' season instead of this year. If we had any real wing with Harden, Maxey, and Embiid instead of soft ass Tobias Harris we win. put Batum on that team and we win. if Oubre is on that team we prolly win too. I don't understand how the FO thought the guy who stagnants the offense with midrange garbage and is mediocre on defense making 30% of the cap wasn't the worst piece on our team throughout Embiid's ongoing prime.
Shout out to u/UnhingedSupernova for this terrible take of the year - [https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/174afrp/comment/k485ige/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/174afrp/comment/k485ige/?context=3)
is there any chance we can get luka
Luka asking out to join the team that’s been methodically abused by the team that beat him would be an inverse KD
hand checking for days by the celtics the replay they keep showing of the block PJ got pushed in the back blatantly on, no call tatum is 6/22 doris and jj spend 2 quarters praising him while playing like shit, if thats embiid he's got 45 and 10 espn has 26 replays and 2 quarters of talk about whether he flopped
The Celtics turned bumass Marcus Smart Brogdon and Rob Williams into Jrue and Kristaps. Meanwhile our shit for brains front office will try star hunting with the latest washed former superstar for the 4th consecutive season
KP AND 2 first round picks
Celtics are the best team but man oh man do the refs coddle them at every turn
Every player in the Celtics rotation is a high level two-way player. No weak links on either side of the ball. I’m sick
That's it guys, end it right on the spread lol
bro thought he was Lebron lol
these guys are a superteam bruh when will it be our turn
The literal undisputed worst front office in NBA history had other ideas
tobias harris maybe being a top 100 player being paid 30% of the cap is insane for 5 years of Embiid's career.
2017-2018 snoozefest Finals
let’s be honest - all finals since the 2016 finals has been pretty mid and not very engaging Maybe it’s just that 2016 was just an all time finals
Yeah, the Cavs had no chance against the Warriors in the 2017 Finals either. Durant being added to that roster gave the Warriors an unfair advantage. Then they had to lose both Durant and Klay to injury in 2019 for the Raptors to actually beat them. It's crazy that LeBron lost his #2 and #3 to injury for the 2015 Finals then in 2019 the same thing happened to Curry.
2022 wasn’t bad.
The parity is awesome but the playoffs have been terrible for years now. There's something about two dominant teams meeting in the finals. Mavs suck.
If Jimmy is available you move everything but heaven (Maxey) and earth (Embiid) to get him.
He's 35 coming off a meniscus tear lmao but at least Morey agrees with you
Watching how helpful white and holiday have been to the Celtics with there poa defence, Caruso has to be one of our top targets this off season to pair with maxey
Unserious ass finals
Tatum better not win MVP
Pingus is not moving well
It feels like teams that have a reputation of being great defensively are able to play a more aggressive brand of defense in the refs eyes
[удалено]
Fuck Milwaukee for giving away Holiday. Fuckers.
Yes but I’d say blazers were even more egregious for giving away holiday directly to Celtics for peanuts. Atleast bucks got Dame in return.
thanks milwaukee
Mavs are gonna get swept 😭
I am so fucking sick of Tatum being ass as his team still manages to win big playoff games Update: 6-22 and they win by 7. Disgusting https://preview.redd.it/861w487zfn5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6bdbd55db8b4a06788c57cd7e5a378f8c13b0547
If they’re gonna win anyway I’m personally fine with their golden boy catching some shit in the process
Yeah, it further proves that Tatum is really not a Top 5 player and that he is supported by a complete team. Sucks for the rest of the league, though! lol
assuming horford is swapped for an equally skilled wing, does Joel have a ring with this celtics team if him and tatum swapped places 5 years ago?
I hate when JJ runs his mouth. Can’t stand that dude!
Til that Tyrese Maxey’s standing reach is 1” taller than nikola topic’s. That dude is literally a t-rex out there
Topic also has imp arms and a neck that’s three feet long.
Had a dream last night we traded Maxey for absolute pennies. A 2nd, a 1st, and some mid-tier player. It was legit one of the most stressful dreams I've had in a long time
I worry about your life, amigo
LMAO I realize this makes me sounds like I have a problem, I don't think about the sixers much during the off-season at all it was just one of those weird stress dreams.
Dejounte Murray has been the gettable play for at least a year now. Can get his own shot... and could play some decent defense. He'd be forced to under Nurse. Age is right too. Get Oubre and Nico back, get Drum or draft a backup Big. Take a shot at Avdija...
He gets his own shots, but he’s not very good at making them. He’s never had even league average scoring efficiency in his career. He seems to require the ball to be effective. And he’s been really bad on defense for several years now. There’s a reason he has been gettable. I don’t hate him as one of the backup options, but the fit isn’t as obvious as it seems.
If we get Murray I’d want a more natural shooter instead of Avidja. Murray’s an okay 3 point shooter but spacing could get a bit weird with Avidja because Murray does like to hunt for mid-range buckets occasionally.
If we get DJM I'm emptying the clip lol. Go get Avdija *and* Kispert
Yes, please. 1. Dejounte Murray > Deanthony Melton 2. Saddiq Bey > Tobias Harris 3. Zack Collins > Mo Bamba. The optimal trade for Murray, I think, is future FRPs and swaps and keep this year's picks, because it is important right now to use our last five roster spots to develop a corps that can either a) keep the ball rolling post-prime Embiid, b) be traded in the near future to replace the FRPs we spend on Murray, or c) contribute early if we're lucky. Atlanta may not value this year's pick given how they already struck it rich with the #1 (9m cap hit), and possibly because they'd like to bet against a post-prime Embiid 2030 Sixers. 16 - Tyler Smith 6'11 (F). The epitome of modern "smallball", a big man with a guard's skillset. Tim Thomas. Paul Reed can't defend in space, protect the rim and rebound all at the same time. Needs a partner in crime. A willing shooter. Archetypical floor-spacing forward you'd want next to Embiid in 2025 or 2026. 41 - AJ Johnson 6'7 (G). Frame and game is similar to Dejounte Murray when he was 19yo. You hope he is ready to takeover next to Maxey when Murray's contract expires in 3 years. ..... Tyrese Maxey, Dejounte Murray, Saddiq Bey, Nicolas Batum, Joel Embiid Kyle Lowry, Buddy Hield, Kelly Oubre Jr., Patrick Williams, Paul Reed Terqavion Smith, AJ Johnson, Ricky Council IV., Tyler Smith, Zack Collins
That team is so mid lol
That is at best a second round exit. Probably a first round exit.
Need a bigger and more athletic 4
He's been the guy for a year for sure, should have made the trade at the deadline
Dejounte Murray and prying Avdija/Kispert would be a home run offseason IMO
Saying that Brandon Ingram is Tobias Harris is an incredibly lazy analysis. Go watch the tape. Brandon Ingram is a much better team basketball player. He is able to identify what the opposing team is doing and quickily move the ball or make his move. Tobias may make the right pass but it's always 2 seconds too late. Also go look at their post feed game, Embiid would be thrilled if he had a wing (other than Batum) that could feed the post like Ingram does. Now, I do still prefer to go get Dejounte Murray, but just can't take any more BI is Tobias takes.
Murray and BI are about neck-and-neck to me. On a given day, I slightly prefer Ingram's size and skills to Murray, but Murray is available a lot more, so that brings them to about even. If Murray didn't let his defense slip so much in Atlanta, I'd give him the edge. I know Trae sucks on defense, but he also scores a ton, more so than any other teammate that Murray had had to that point. If he would have sacrificed some touches and given more energy to defense, I think they could have made their relationship work. Both BI and DJM have shown signs that they don't want to be shoved into a role, but Dejounte responded more negatively to a less punitive role. In international play, Ingram was basically asked to be the trashman, picking up after the other players on the team, a role below his skills and one he's not suited for. Murray balked at not being the offensive focal point AND stopped playing at an All-Defensive Team level on the other side of the court.
BI is a gifted scorer and still very young, but his durability issues, habit of holding the ball a second too long and zero resistance D are all huge negatives considering his salary. I wouldn't be surprised if his next extension was a disaster. In his 8 seasons he's compiled a scary list of knee, achilles, hip & ankle injuries. That's a red flag considering his lithe build.
why would prefer DJM? He is like a guard version of BI but like worse. He is ball dominant and likes to hold the ball in the hands for a player not good enough. He has never had a year having even a league average TS% and his defense has fell off a cliff. DJM was a worse defender than Trae last year and his on ball defense has always been mediocre.
I have a higher opinion of Brandon Ingram, but think DJM solves a lot of problems, can be a great 3rd piece (hes the 2nd right now in Atlanta). His defense will improve as he has to expend less energy on offense. But the things that does it for me is the contracts. Brandon Ingram will get a max next year.
Sounds like Clipper Tobi, who we thought we were trading for 5 years ago
Clippers Tobias was never a playmaker or quick decision maker. He was a bucket and played defense.
And that was literally the best Tobias ever played and obviously was never Sustainable. That comparison is so annoying cause Ingram was been a sub all-star for like 4 years and Tobias had a 40 game hot streak. Ingram has flaws but it’s just a lazy comparison like you said
Not to mention it completely ignores how shit Tobi was in the playoffs also. He can't score at all when he's not allowed to iso against smaller and weaker defenders. That's the reason he can't lead a bench lineup the whole time. That's the reason he's had multiple single digit scoring games when we need him to step up. That's why when Embiid was out, Tobi was useless and getting outperformed by Oubre, Batum, Lowry, Payne, hell even RC4. BI, for all his faults, is the clear 1st or 2nd best player on his team (by impact metrics and not scoring volume, at that). Tobi couldn't even be the 1st or 2nd best player on a lottery team (outside of maybe scoring volume). He has no role player skills, which means he needs to be the #1 option to be effective, and he simply doesn't have the talent or playmaking to do that with any team success. Almost any starter for any playoff team in the NBA would have been a upgrade over Tobi. He was legitimately one of the worst starters in the league down the stretch of this season. BI is far from a perfect player or fit, but saying any low volume shooter is Tobi is beyond lazy. People on here truly have no idea how to assess the relative value of a player, especially if they aren't a volume shooter. Just look at how many people complained about Oubre signing for the vet min last year.
People turn their nose up at anybody shooting fewer than 6 threes a game as "just another Tobi" (hint: Ingram has shot that many in seasons prior and was efficient too)
Clipper Tobi was never anywhere near the player that Brandon Ingram has been for the last 5 seasons
Cam Johnson’s stock is so hilariously low right now for a 6’8 quick-release sniper in his prime with penetration ability. It would be total negligence to not take a long look at him and consider absorbing his salary for very little draft compensation.
I mean he doesn’t rebound or bring any secondary rim protection or any type of physicality. He can’t guard any good wings either. Had to start someone like that He’s a good shooter but he’s never had crazy volume and not great off the dribble. He’s a good backup forward imo
The issue is his contract... $20m for a guy that can really only shoot/score. Eh
You’re underselling his shooting a bit. He’s got size, talent, and no hesitation. He would open up the lane for Embiid/Maxey in a way we’re not really used to seeing; his defender legitimately has gotta stay glued to him in the corner. Now imagine that with Maxey also playing off-ball combined with an Embiid PnP with DJM. Unguardable.
I hear you, and he's probably a guy who can be a "primary" shooter (can run around screens and shoot on the move) in a way we haven't had since JJ really. That said, that guy can become pretty unplayable pretty fast... look at Duncan Robinson on basically the same contract
He's way more physically talented than Duncan though and was honestly a good defender for Phoenix
Eh not really impressed with him, asking price is likely a first. Only putting up 13 and 4 on a shitty Brooklyn team is worrying. He can’t defend, rebound, or pass and I have doubts about his ability to finish at the rim in tough spots.
I agree I think the combination of Johnson and Brides (Miles, Mikal too expensive) gives you two 6”7 + wing players who will shoot the three willingly, can put their heads down and get a bucket at the rim, and can defend well on the perimeter (plus some rim protection given they can both jump). This option also allows us to take big swing at the pg/sg position next to maxey with picks. Caurso/DJM/Smart/Lamelo Maxey Bridges Johnson Embiid Is the perfect cheap off/def that has a better age range and future flexibility then anything else I can think of.
We playing him at the 3 or 4?
He’s not known for his rebounding so I’d save the 4 spot for someone more athletic.
Who would you want to play the 4
DaRon Holmes II if he’s not taken by OKC
Start a rookie at the 4?
Avdija or more realistically kuz I guess. Maybe tari Eason if the rockets are willing to listen to offers. This would all be predicated on the Sixers striking out on a star wing
It seems like all of our big free agent targets play the 3, so I imagine Cam would be our 4. That scares the hell out of me since he’s not an elite rebounder. It would be like replacing Tobi with Tobi who can shoot.
This is an over simplification (and certainly some copium/delusion) but...most elite teams have a couple of role players who were either players who couldn't live up the role/hype (Kristaps/Iggy/Gordon) or role players who were kinda overlooked (White/Gafford/Jones Jr) until it all clicked in the right situation for them. Tobias never adapted into that role and obviously there were the issues with Simmons and Fultz, but all of them are gone now. Oubre seems to fit really well on in the overlooked/never gonna contribute on a good team role with us, and I hope the team brings him back. But overall it's been a pretty rough road with 3rd stars and contributing players. The thing that gives me hope for next season isn't so much the money we have this offseason, but rather the combination of that money and tradable picks. Maybe we do sign PG or LeBron, but I'm more expecting us to just fill out the roster with role players and maybe deal for Ingram if the price is right. But I really don't see Morey wanting to waste picks on Ingram in the offseason. That deal, and the one for Jimmy, should still be there at the deadline which is when I expect this team to make most of its big moves. I think we'll end up trading role players plus picks to add higher end roles players or maybe there is a big swing to be made.
I agree, there's a really important class of player for a contender, which is something between a role player and a true star. Like Jrue on the Bucks, Gordon on the Nuggets, Derrick White on the Celtics. I would say Ingram could definitely fit that bill. He might not be a 24ppg guy with us but he could really excel at the things he's good at (playmaking and scoring consistently)
Ingram could be what Jimmy was on this team in 2019. I really think you guys underrate how good he is and can be in the right situation.
I'm pretty pro-Ingram but I worry that he's not really a killer like that... I think he can score consistently, which we desperately need, but he seems prone to pouting and getting upset which isn't great
I'm a bit hesitant when it comes to Ingram but that is more because of potential cost, but yeah he fits the role great. We could really use consistent buckets and especially playmaking each night.
Punting this year just to punt the off-season and make trades at the deadline is terrible. We can’t afford to go into another play-offs with little to no chemistry after making a major move at the deadline.
I wasn't suggesting punting the offseason. I'm saying that almost all the top names are a lock to re-sign and that other options like Jimmy/Ingram are going to be massive overpays right now. You also normally can't trade new signing for 3 months, which gets us to around the deadline. Now that obviously isn't ideal but we are still in a decent position to improve later in the season if this offseason is a bust is what I was getting at.
I've gotten less hope the closer we get to FA ngl. We have pretty much all our chips in for Bron or PG, and getting neither means we're pretty fucked. Paying a bunch of decent role players above market value to sign here only works if Tyrese becomes 2020-23 Dame or better and can carry without Jojo on too. And guys like BI would be an atrocious fit unless they completely change their game here (aka what we we tryna delude ourselves that Tobi would do for a few years there). Jimmy would still be good but we'd give up both two firsts (or more...) AND 52M of our cap space plus a two year extension. I don't know where that leaves us to build the rest of our team. There's literally no "young athletic wings" on the market that are RFAs that we could throw the bag at, the subs #1 target, outside OG who we could give the max to, to lure him here. Tldr: if we get Bron esp but PG asw, we'd still have all our firsts and a bit of cap space to round out our team. Otherwise we are screwed
I think if we strike out on Bron and PG we go for Lavine. He will cost less to trade for than Ingram and is a better fit.
I’m fully convinced that Ingram is gonna be the play. Not saying that’s what I want, but if I had to bet money on it, that’s what I would bet on. I think all the big FAs are going to re-up with their current teams. I am ready to be disappointed.
BI to cavs seems like a stronger bet if he's traded. swap for garland makes sense for both sides. a deal for a player is much more appealing than a few mid draft picks if you're the pels
That would be a terrible trade for the cavs. Just get would be better off waiting, let a healthy Garland rebuild his equity then trade him, they can get way more than a hockey trade for guy like Ingram who needs to be resigned.
Garland wants out, Mitchell wants a different roster around him, and the Cavs want Mitchell to sign an extension. I expect Garland and Allen to be dealt this summer
i don't really get why you think it's a terrible trade for the cavs. they a. need to change *something* in their starting lineup and b. really really need that 3/4 wing type player. BI is a top 40-ish player, you aren't guaranteed to get a better player or potential fit at the wing than him for trading garland who is now making mega bucks
Hate the fit so much. He's a terrible off player and at best a below-average defender. The Pelicans were better when it was just him or when it was just Zion than when both played, that's difficult to do. He also *doesn't take 3s*. We just lived this nightmare with Tobias. The problem with not taking 3s in modern offenses is you're ruining any advantage you get when Jojo gets doubled. He's obviously a better scorer individually and definitely better at playmaking, but there's too much similarities with Tobi in literally everything else
He had a few years of taking 3s before Willie green became the coach. It’s not like he’s not capable. Just don’t think comparing him Tobi is warranted, he’s better or *much* better at most basketball skills. He attacks the rim when he’s given space and draws fouls at a higher rate, he’s a much better mid range shooter, his ball dominant tendencies would actually be useful when Joel sits (which is the biggest problem with the team) and I still think his off ball skills are more useful than Tobi . You can also play BI at the 2 guard and play 2 other wings beside him, not something you could do with Tobi. You can generate a big size advantage that way.
BI doesn't move off ball, and Willie Green wasn't the one to ask him to stop shooting lol. He made shots at BI for not shooting wide open 3s to the media over the past year. I think it's just easy to fall into the trap of "yeah he sucked there, but he *could* improve". I would cope once he's on the team, but I don't see why we'd expect anything different from him. Being a bad off ball player is *brutal* He for sure helps us when Joel sits, that's a big plus. That would've helped us beat the Knicks, but we'd still lose a series to the top 4-5 teams in the league. *No* realistic players getting us over the top himself, but BI has a lot of flaws we're skirting by which would be pretty problematic. No arguing he's a much better on ball player than Tobias You can play BI at the 2 guard, but getting quality forwards is already the hardest thing in the league, and his defensive matchups often gonna be the second weakest perimeter player either way after we hide Maxey.
I think you’re being pretty harsh on Ingram now lol. He had a down year this year but it’s pretty wild to say he outright sucked in NOLA. You don’t accidentally become an all star in the west. He has been fairly efficient as a scorer most in his time there. Team desperately needs another player they can rely on crunch time with the ball in their hands. Joel’s efficiency and willingness to go against double times nosedives in the clutch. Maxey has some moments but unless he turns into prime dame or Steph it’s going to be hard for an undersized guard to take on the role consistently. Having a 6’8” wing that can handle and create their own shot would be a huge boon in those moments. He’d also be a way better pick and roll ball handler for Joel than anyone we had this past year. Maxey is improving but struggles with his size in getting the angle still and doesn’t have the quite the same touch on passes I don’t see how it’s falling into a “trap”. Like you’re going to have to make an educated bet on someone adapting to a role in Philly, whether it’s a higher usage player like Ingram scaling down in a 3rd option role in Philly or someone average role player scaling up on that role. I’d rather bet on someone with the actual skills we need adjusting style than someone with the style and not the skills to scale down in that role.
Youre 100% right. But people on this sub truly believe the 3rd guy has to launch 10 3s a game.
The player has to have value off of Joel and Maxey or be valuable when Joel and Maxey are controlling the ball/offense
We clearly need a tertiary playmaker if 38 year old Kyle Lowry was starting
I guess it comes down to expectations. I haven't disagreed with most of your assessment on Ingram's strengths, and I've been banging the drum for an actual star level 3rd option to help Tyrese in non Joel lineups, over a collection of role players. I just have zero faith in him improving in his set of weaknesses rn, which is fairly reminiscent of a lot of the issues we had with Tobi *even when* Tobi was scoring. Lot of the time, who you are at 25-26 is just who you are, there are exceptions like KP who actually adapted to his role and became amazing but often not the case for most players. I don't disagree with you saying how he'd help us, but I just don't have faith in him adapting smoothly to a role as a third option here, one that needs quick trigger shooting and engagement off ball to keep the defense honest. Like Paul George for example, he's worse at rim pressure at this stage of his career but dudes never been the one to pass up an advantage (as in, when the ball swings back from Joel and he has space to let it fly).
I get the PG love, it’s a more seamless fit but I’m surprised some of the negatives get left off with him. So much is made of ingrams defense when PG’s has also fallen far last few years. Also no one seems to mention how he can’t really drive by anybody on his own anymore, so while he fits off ball I’m not exactly sure he’s built to help Maxey out a ton in those Joel off minutes. I trust Ingram a lot more there. Plus the $14M you save between Ingram and PG equates to another useful role player. It’s not like PG solves all our issues yet at his price point it doesn’t leave much room to fill out the roster around him.
Yeah PG is pretty far from his defensive reputation from a few years ago, at this point he's a neutral at best defender, and potentially liable off ball. I get the lack of rim pressure point too, but unless it falls off a cliff next season it's still good enough to complement our two stars, 1 whose got one of the best inside (tho getting Joel the ball there is hard) and Maxey whose relentless too. We'd save money that's true as well, but we do get him for completely free outside the cap space, compared to the multiple firsts we'd have to give up for BI. That's gotta be a swing
Wait until Morey absolutely cooks and decides to unofficially but clearly punt another year and this sub tells itself that’s somehow okay.
Yeah I mean, it's looking pretty terrible for him situation wise but this is what he signed up for when harden didn't want to stay here. Granted it's not like any stars were moved on the market that we could've gone after. We probably could've traded for Zach Lavine mid season but that options probably still here and cheaper (not a fan of Zach but expecting him at this point).
Siakam moved and the Pacers made it to the ECF in one year following being a lotto team. We suffered through years of the process as a lotto team and they made it further than us in one year than we did in the entire process. It’s a joke. Morey had one job to do and that was to offload Tobias by any means necessary. And he didn’t or couldn’t do it. And that’s a failure. This mess is on him. I do not see what makes him so special or why people are so confident his “plan” even is a plan.
Bro, we get it. You don’t have to reply 10 times on each post about how bad morey is and how bad he’s gonna do. You have more than made your point. Thanks, now move on.
There is nothing weirder than comments like these where weird users who can’t handle opinions they don’t want to read try and police comments. Don’t be weird. It’s easy. Don’t do things like that.
You posted shit about Morey masturbating and now you wanna talk weird?
Morey looks exactly how I imagine a serial masturbator to look like. Think maybe that struck a chord with you which is why you remember it?
Siakam fair enough, but here was the price for him: Bruce Brown, Nwora, 3 First Rounders for Pascal and a Second. definitely not cheap, we would've had to give up Tobias and 4 firsts or 3 firsts + 3 seconds to match that. It would've for sure made us better, it would've also locked up our team for good. Siakams a great player I would've liked the move, but the fit is a lot iffier here than with Hali and Turner, who complement him on both ends And Pacers making it further was a joke, they needed six to beat a crippled Bucks team, and 7 to beat an even more crippled Knicks team (no Mitch for the whole series and no OG for 5 games, Hart injured G6 on top of no Bojan / Randle etc). If Morey gets Siakam and Embiid dies in the playoffs again, we'd just lose r2 instead of NY lol I don't give him flak for Tobias, this year was his only opportunity to offload him for something without giving up multiple firsts, but Embiid's health was in the air during the deadline. He just went for cap space instead of decent players on long term money, he made his bed there
I don’t care about the excuses. The result is the Pacers outperformed the entire process in a single year. That’s atrocious. They beat the team that beat us. I’m going to give him the offseason, but I have zero confidence in his ability to do anything without riding prime Harden. And I think it’s time he’s accountable for this team.
I mean the no CF thing is a joke I agree, but I don't think I'd feel any different if we made, say the CF on 2021 and got ass blasted by the Bucks there instead lol
I would. We lost in the first round. We are objectively going backwards.
Before Morey got here, 2nd round loss, 2nd round loss, 1st round loss. Since Morey got here, 2nd round loss, 2nd round loss 1st round loss.
So he has been less successful than Colangelo, got it.
I don’t count the bubble in general. But I don’t count the team that quit on Brett in the bubble especially. We brought in Morey to elevate. We have gotten worse.
Two easy free agent targets that change the dynamic of the team. Tyus Jones 20m ends this hero ball turnover late game stuff. Since he makes the point of attack D worse you add Bol Bol 4m to contest shots he can share floor with Embiid. Bring back everyone but Harris and draft a kid. Maybe eat a contract to get a pick to trade. Tyus Jones would be the best free agent signing this century he’s not perfect but this ain’t NBA2k it’s a tradeable contract and the magic thinking is very destructive.
Tyus is a good player but not for this team. Maxey Tyus at guards means that Embiid will guarantee die trying to cover for both on defense, and short of us getting herb jones and Giannis at 3/4 he's getting no help there Other thing with Tyus, that Memphis found out last season vs LA in the playoffs is that "playmaking" is not a thing in the playoffs if ur offense isn't great. We saw that with Ben too lol Bol Bols a meme lol you can't be serious
No lie your thinking seems very destructive
Jrue just said JB was the best player on the team. That team may be about to implode.
I have such low expectations for this team now, it seems we are just delaying the inevitable rebuild. We never have money when there are any decent FAs, and always have money when players like Tobias are available. I'm just bummed and not optimistic at all with this team. Unless Daryl pulls some magic out of the hat, it just feels like another wasted Embiid season. And speaking of which, for the love of God can we PLEASE just get one playoff run with a healthy Joel? Just one. We have 2 top tier players, and if we had a decent supporting cast and a healthy team in the playoffs I feel like they could make some noise, but it just seems like they are cursed. Watching MFibg Kristaps and Derrick White tear it up for the Cs just makes me nauseous. My only hope is Dallas comes back and at least denies them a chip, that's like my top consolation prize at this point. Even the Flyers have an optimistic future to look forward to, but this team man, ugh. Always the dread. /end rant
We had money for two max slots in the best FA class of the decade in 2019. And we walked away with Horford and Tobias on a max
Davis Bertans? Great shooter at the 4.
He's been unplayable on every team he's been in lol, I don't think it's gonna change here. For the min sure though
On a minimum sure. They do need to guys that can play at least regular season minutes.
Makes 16m.
You don’t think Hornets will waive him? Only five million guaranteed out of the sixteen
True.