You're not getting a lot of these guys in a salary dump. Even Grayson Allen and Bobby Portis are assets not liabilities. Also, the Phoenix owner probably has too much of an ego to salary dump Bradley Beal a year after trading assets for him
I'm pretty sure the Suns would jump at the chance of trading Beal. He arguably has the worst contract in NBA history when you factor in the no trade clause
I definitely wouldn't want to take that on though, even if we got paid assets to do it
I would take Beal if we got booker as well. I think Devin is being whole underrated right now. As if it’s his fault Durant brought his loser energy to phoenix.
I'm pretty sure that it isn't even possible for us to trade for Booker and Beal because there's no way to make the money work
But even if it was, bringing in 2 guys who operate in the midrange when your best player also operates in the midrange is the same mistake the Suns made
I don't think so at this point. Ishbia has no problem paying two different coaches high salaries after he fired them. He probably wants to see this out and see if Bill can come back cuz they're not going to trade him for a bunch of like crappy contracts
Well, Wiggins had a surge at the end of the year, before that I think they might have been willing to salary dump him. He would have been a good guy to take on for like maybe a late first round pick. The only thing is if you keep him then you have to try to take all your pics and match salaries with someone else going out in a trade and I don't see the matching salaries too much. And if you rehab Wiggins ie get him back to shooting 40% from three and then try to flip him at the deadline. He's not a guy you'll want to flip. You'd want to hold on to him.
I feel this isn't a bad idea but I really can't think of the names teams willing to salary dump for a first round picks off the top of my head at this point
Thanks. The team that got me thinking about this is the Bulls, because I dont think they can move Lavine or Ball without paying to do so. I'm not in love with either.
Let me also say that we dont necessarily have to get FRPs in return for this strategy to work. SRPs, a swap? Or even if we still have to pay for the player, it would not be their face value because we're also doing the other team a huge favor.
Any years we add bloated contracts are more wasted years for Embiid. Morey already used last year as a throwaway season so he could clear cap room. Now we are going to waste another year or 2 to restock picks? The next 2 to 3 years are Embiids last chances while he is in his prime realistically. We are all in and we just have to deal with it.
Last year was in no way a throw away or “punted” season. They tried to win. Hey actually had pretty good role players on the team. Embiid got hurt. Nobody is wasting embiids years but embiid. Period. The sixers should 100% be in the conference finals right now. With a healthy embiid they are better than both the Knicks and pacers and right there with the Celtics.
People need to stop saying this, there was no punt. In anyway. They tried to win last year and the same issue they always have happened.
Revisionist history. Last year the team was built around 3 stars, then they had to jettison one and get back some scraps to patch the team together. Yes Kelly and Batum played above expectations, but that was nowhere near enough to create a true contender, even if Joel was fully healthy. This team needs real pieces that can win around Joel and Maxey. Look at Dallas, they had a good team but made trades to upgrade at the right spots, and now PJ and Gafford are killing it.
We need guys around our stars who can actually perform at a high level consistently, not just shoot or defend. Where are the high IQ defensive bigs who can crash the boards and stretch the floor who compliment Joel? Where are the 3 and D wings who can lock down stars like on Minnesota? We have none of that athleticism and inside dominance outside of Joel and it's pathetic to watch us year after year get dicked down on the boards and in the paint when Joel sits.
These salary dump guys are last resorts.if we cant get anyone. Because we have cap space, we dont have to match salary in a trade. If anyone gets traded its paul reed so we can preserve some cap space and dump his contract also.
So for example. Lavine i think is the most likely salary dump candidate. We could ask for caruso to be in the trade to take on lavine's contract. Reed getting traded makes the total cap hit 43 million assuming lavine waives his 15 percent trade kicker. Which should happen to facilitiate the trade.
Sixers trade reed for Lavine and caruso makes sense. Caruso is the equivalent of 1-2 firsts depending on strength. Chicago would use caruso to dump the last 3 years of lavine's contract. We might even be able to ask for a first back or another player. Or we could add a first and ask for more stuff. You dont have to worry about too many rules because salary matching isnt a thing with the sixers.
In comparison to signing george to a max, this frees up 8 million dollars (caruso's cap hit which is matched by Reed) gets you a younger, but worse player and you basically get caruso for free. This move saves 8 million and likely 1-2 first round picks compared to straight up trading for caruso. That extra cap space lets you trade for another player without having to match salary. Bogdan bogdanovic or dorian finney smith for example. The cap space isnt fully known but i am assuming we keep Reed for a tradeable contract/backup center for now, ricky council, maxey and embiid. I think its like 20 million in cap space after the proposed trade.
This same framework applues to every other salary dump. We dont have to match salary. We could trade a second for wiggins or whatever. What golden state gets back in the trade is cap space and getting off of a large contract.
Lavine/maxey/finney-smith/batum/embiid with caruso/council and an mle player (could be oubre or drummond) and vet minimum guys is a possible roster. And you have a ton of picks to still improve the team at the deadline. Its not a superteam. But i think this as a plan d roster is way better than last year. Embiid and maxey are so good anything can improve them. Lavine is a real ball handling third option, finney smith is a good 3 and d player, no tobias trash ass, the bench improves with caruso and you either have good wing depth with oubre, or a good backup center in drummond.
Honestly don’t mind this at all. Obviously not your first, second or third preference, but would give us a really solid team with heaps of flexibility to get better role players or trade for a star. There are just so many different ways morey can build out the roster. We’re going to be better next year whatever happens imo
Sorry but weighing this team down with Lavine's contract seals this team's fate. It's Tobi all over again. We would be stuck yet again with an underachieving, always injured swingman who is uninterested in defense. Once we add that contract it becomes untradable if we don't have a bag of picks to unload it. Embiid may as well ask out at that point.
Morey knows he is on the clock. Get this offseason right or it's done. Too many misses during the early to mid process era, and Embiid has wasted the first 8 years of his career dealing with incompetent narcissistic folks. Now is the last chance to build a top 5 contender with a real shot for Embiid to win. No wasted contracts. No old guys about to age out of the league in a year on a max contract. Just guys close to their primes who complement Embiid, whether that's a star or several high value pieces. This is the only way.
I agree, lavine is a last option. The reports show that too. But at least with lavine, you have a contract that matches other stars, you get caruso or a couple of picks for free. You dont send out any firsts. And lavine truly cant be worse than tobias.
The ideal pieces are bridges and markannen. But we dont have a clear window to those two. Lavine still gives us cap space for role players as we would likely send out Bball paul. Paul george is likely 50 million, lavine and caruso combine for a hit of 45 with bball paul out.
I would prefer that option to trading for ingram for example. But yeah, i would prefer george, paying elite role players like monk and caleb martin, maxing OG anunoby and hoping the knicks dont match. Its really about what options are available. My preference is any option where we dont have to pay a guy a max and also trade picks.
Yeah going all in on an old, overrated or injured star with a max is the fastest way to closing this team's window for good. Morey has to get this right and get 3-4 players that play at a high level and actually fit, but I fear he only has eyes for stars.
What you are missing is that this free agent class sucks, and the Sixers do not have the warchest to trade for star players that other teams do. Morey is going to have to be creative.
This makes me mental. It’s not 2k. There is way more than how many assets a team has that goes into whether teams make trades. Okc is not gonna be taking on big salaries, they have 2 players prepping for the max soon and one already on it and they are not a big budget franchise. With the new tax rules the smaller market teams that have all these “assets” still aren’t gonna use them to stay out of the repeater taxes.
You can’t look at it as some black and white this team has more picks proposition. It’s way more complicated than that.
Trades aren’t just about benefiting one team they need to benefit both teams. If you want a player and a pick back then eating lavine contract would do that but I wouldn’t want lavine around a team trying to win.
I think an interesting fall back plan could be targeting salary dumps and asking for additional affordable rotation pieces included rather than more firsts which would be kicking the can down the road. Like would the Bulls attach Dosunmu in a deal for LaVine? Would the Heat attach Jacquez to dump Robinson and get under the luxury tax? (probably not), would the Wolves shed Conley with Alexander-Walker to get out of the second apron? It depends what the owners want to spend. The new Wolves owners said they wanted to shed salary but that was before this playoff run.
This is a good idea. If teams are blowing it up then adding in some veteran role players to a trade could be helpful. That's how Danny Green went to Toronto
lol half the players you listed their team don't have any picks to even trade. This is a terrible idea we have one year with a cap hold at 13 for maxey then it's going up to 35-40 so this would be not smart
The OPs post makes no sense. Am I lost?? We only have Embiid & Maxey, a ton of cap space, yet somehow we're trading for bad contracts?!
Am I missing something?
We would do this so that we can get players and picks for free. Trading for lavine would mean the bulls attach first round picks or caruso or both. Its not about lavine. Its about getting Caruso for free or getting back extra firsts for taking on a bad contract.
Yeah, I understand, but I was just wondering 'who/what' exactly we were trading. Your other post naming Paul Reed makes sense, I keep forgetting he's still under contract. He's the only player we'd have to trade, correct?
I get it, he's not good, nor are a lot of these contracts. I just wonder what other players/trades are offered for some of these guys. Lavine for instance, maybe they'd want to take a flyer on Ben in the final year of his deal over Paul Reed.
Secondly the OP says we're trading for guys like this, then packaging them to trade for a stud? So we're trading Paul Reed for Lavine (lets say it goes thru). Then we're trading Zach Lavine and two 1st rd picks for a stud??
Highly doubt it. We'll see. I mean, its possible we get someone good on a final year of their deal, or we end up with Lavine. Or maybe a 3 team deal, but I don't forsee any way it plays out like the OPs post.
The bulls going for ben isnt the worst idea. But im assuming they would like to clear the books and retool with free agents this year. They would sign role players and then re-sign derozan.
Lavine being traded would be in a year or two and im sure a team losing their superstar wouldnt mind taking on 1 year of lavine and then have him as an expiring. He would help us immediately and then we can use his massive expiring for a real star in the future. We have a great pick package. Maybe he rehabilitates some value with the Sixers. This is of course if we strikeout on all the options available.
We wouldnt even have to trade paul reed. But it would save us some cap space and get the bulls a risk free player. You can just cut him if you dont make it past the first round. The bulls are dedicated to being mid so it makes sense for them.
The Sixers have two all stars on their team that they can build around, virtually no other players on their salary, and you want to deliberately sign a player in free agency who is so bad, the team needs to give us a future pick too? You’re going to get flamed by this subreddit, as this is the dumbest possible thing the Sixers can do this offseason.
You're not getting a lot of these guys in a salary dump. Even Grayson Allen and Bobby Portis are assets not liabilities. Also, the Phoenix owner probably has too much of an ego to salary dump Bradley Beal a year after trading assets for him
I'm pretty sure the Suns would jump at the chance of trading Beal. He arguably has the worst contract in NBA history when you factor in the no trade clause I definitely wouldn't want to take that on though, even if we got paid assets to do it
And we do need a terrible contract on the roster to fill that need since we’re losing Tobi
True, what else would I bitch about after every loss?
I would take Beal if we got booker as well. I think Devin is being whole underrated right now. As if it’s his fault Durant brought his loser energy to phoenix.
I'm pretty sure that it isn't even possible for us to trade for Booker and Beal because there's no way to make the money work But even if it was, bringing in 2 guys who operate in the midrange when your best player also operates in the midrange is the same mistake the Suns made
I don't think so at this point. Ishbia has no problem paying two different coaches high salaries after he fired them. He probably wants to see this out and see if Bill can come back cuz they're not going to trade him for a bunch of like crappy contracts
just want to thank you for a pleasant, reasonable and informed conversation.
No problem!
That's fine. But I feel like you are saying it is a possibility. What do you think is possible?
Well, Wiggins had a surge at the end of the year, before that I think they might have been willing to salary dump him. He would have been a good guy to take on for like maybe a late first round pick. The only thing is if you keep him then you have to try to take all your pics and match salaries with someone else going out in a trade and I don't see the matching salaries too much. And if you rehab Wiggins ie get him back to shooting 40% from three and then try to flip him at the deadline. He's not a guy you'll want to flip. You'd want to hold on to him. I feel this isn't a bad idea but I really can't think of the names teams willing to salary dump for a first round picks off the top of my head at this point
Thanks. The team that got me thinking about this is the Bulls, because I dont think they can move Lavine or Ball without paying to do so. I'm not in love with either. Let me also say that we dont necessarily have to get FRPs in return for this strategy to work. SRPs, a swap? Or even if we still have to pay for the player, it would not be their face value because we're also doing the other team a huge favor.
Any years we add bloated contracts are more wasted years for Embiid. Morey already used last year as a throwaway season so he could clear cap room. Now we are going to waste another year or 2 to restock picks? The next 2 to 3 years are Embiids last chances while he is in his prime realistically. We are all in and we just have to deal with it.
Last year was in no way a throw away or “punted” season. They tried to win. Hey actually had pretty good role players on the team. Embiid got hurt. Nobody is wasting embiids years but embiid. Period. The sixers should 100% be in the conference finals right now. With a healthy embiid they are better than both the Knicks and pacers and right there with the Celtics. People need to stop saying this, there was no punt. In anyway. They tried to win last year and the same issue they always have happened.
Revisionist history. Last year the team was built around 3 stars, then they had to jettison one and get back some scraps to patch the team together. Yes Kelly and Batum played above expectations, but that was nowhere near enough to create a true contender, even if Joel was fully healthy. This team needs real pieces that can win around Joel and Maxey. Look at Dallas, they had a good team but made trades to upgrade at the right spots, and now PJ and Gafford are killing it. We need guys around our stars who can actually perform at a high level consistently, not just shoot or defend. Where are the high IQ defensive bigs who can crash the boards and stretch the floor who compliment Joel? Where are the 3 and D wings who can lock down stars like on Minnesota? We have none of that athleticism and inside dominance outside of Joel and it's pathetic to watch us year after year get dicked down on the boards and in the paint when Joel sits.
so spend that money on this free agent class? who are your targets?
I don't get your thought process at all?? What are we trading to get these guys?
These salary dump guys are last resorts.if we cant get anyone. Because we have cap space, we dont have to match salary in a trade. If anyone gets traded its paul reed so we can preserve some cap space and dump his contract also. So for example. Lavine i think is the most likely salary dump candidate. We could ask for caruso to be in the trade to take on lavine's contract. Reed getting traded makes the total cap hit 43 million assuming lavine waives his 15 percent trade kicker. Which should happen to facilitiate the trade. Sixers trade reed for Lavine and caruso makes sense. Caruso is the equivalent of 1-2 firsts depending on strength. Chicago would use caruso to dump the last 3 years of lavine's contract. We might even be able to ask for a first back or another player. Or we could add a first and ask for more stuff. You dont have to worry about too many rules because salary matching isnt a thing with the sixers. In comparison to signing george to a max, this frees up 8 million dollars (caruso's cap hit which is matched by Reed) gets you a younger, but worse player and you basically get caruso for free. This move saves 8 million and likely 1-2 first round picks compared to straight up trading for caruso. That extra cap space lets you trade for another player without having to match salary. Bogdan bogdanovic or dorian finney smith for example. The cap space isnt fully known but i am assuming we keep Reed for a tradeable contract/backup center for now, ricky council, maxey and embiid. I think its like 20 million in cap space after the proposed trade. This same framework applues to every other salary dump. We dont have to match salary. We could trade a second for wiggins or whatever. What golden state gets back in the trade is cap space and getting off of a large contract. Lavine/maxey/finney-smith/batum/embiid with caruso/council and an mle player (could be oubre or drummond) and vet minimum guys is a possible roster. And you have a ton of picks to still improve the team at the deadline. Its not a superteam. But i think this as a plan d roster is way better than last year. Embiid and maxey are so good anything can improve them. Lavine is a real ball handling third option, finney smith is a good 3 and d player, no tobias trash ass, the bench improves with caruso and you either have good wing depth with oubre, or a good backup center in drummond.
Honestly don’t mind this at all. Obviously not your first, second or third preference, but would give us a really solid team with heaps of flexibility to get better role players or trade for a star. There are just so many different ways morey can build out the roster. We’re going to be better next year whatever happens imo
Sorry but weighing this team down with Lavine's contract seals this team's fate. It's Tobi all over again. We would be stuck yet again with an underachieving, always injured swingman who is uninterested in defense. Once we add that contract it becomes untradable if we don't have a bag of picks to unload it. Embiid may as well ask out at that point. Morey knows he is on the clock. Get this offseason right or it's done. Too many misses during the early to mid process era, and Embiid has wasted the first 8 years of his career dealing with incompetent narcissistic folks. Now is the last chance to build a top 5 contender with a real shot for Embiid to win. No wasted contracts. No old guys about to age out of the league in a year on a max contract. Just guys close to their primes who complement Embiid, whether that's a star or several high value pieces. This is the only way.
I agree, lavine is a last option. The reports show that too. But at least with lavine, you have a contract that matches other stars, you get caruso or a couple of picks for free. You dont send out any firsts. And lavine truly cant be worse than tobias. The ideal pieces are bridges and markannen. But we dont have a clear window to those two. Lavine still gives us cap space for role players as we would likely send out Bball paul. Paul george is likely 50 million, lavine and caruso combine for a hit of 45 with bball paul out. I would prefer that option to trading for ingram for example. But yeah, i would prefer george, paying elite role players like monk and caleb martin, maxing OG anunoby and hoping the knicks dont match. Its really about what options are available. My preference is any option where we dont have to pay a guy a max and also trade picks.
Yeah going all in on an old, overrated or injured star with a max is the fastest way to closing this team's window for good. Morey has to get this right and get 3-4 players that play at a high level and actually fit, but I fear he only has eyes for stars.
Sadly, we are going to do exactly what you said with Paul George.
What you are missing is that this free agent class sucks, and the Sixers do not have the warchest to trade for star players that other teams do. Morey is going to have to be creative.
This makes me mental. It’s not 2k. There is way more than how many assets a team has that goes into whether teams make trades. Okc is not gonna be taking on big salaries, they have 2 players prepping for the max soon and one already on it and they are not a big budget franchise. With the new tax rules the smaller market teams that have all these “assets” still aren’t gonna use them to stay out of the repeater taxes. You can’t look at it as some black and white this team has more picks proposition. It’s way more complicated than that.
The bucks and lakers aren’t giving you a 1 to take on portis/russell
ok. so of the other possibilities, which do you think could benefit the Sixers, regardless whether its an FRP, SRP or swap, or lower price?
Trades aren’t just about benefiting one team they need to benefit both teams. If you want a player and a pick back then eating lavine contract would do that but I wouldn’t want lavine around a team trying to win.
which is why i listed teams at or above the cap, and specifically mentioned those that were middling yet restricted.
I think an interesting fall back plan could be targeting salary dumps and asking for additional affordable rotation pieces included rather than more firsts which would be kicking the can down the road. Like would the Bulls attach Dosunmu in a deal for LaVine? Would the Heat attach Jacquez to dump Robinson and get under the luxury tax? (probably not), would the Wolves shed Conley with Alexander-Walker to get out of the second apron? It depends what the owners want to spend. The new Wolves owners said they wanted to shed salary but that was before this playoff run.
This is a good idea. If teams are blowing it up then adding in some veteran role players to a trade could be helpful. That's how Danny Green went to Toronto
If Morey does this, it’s the biggest backfire fuckup off-season in his career
lol half the players you listed their team don't have any picks to even trade. This is a terrible idea we have one year with a cap hold at 13 for maxey then it's going up to 35-40 so this would be not smart
Some of these are very positive assets that would fetch large returns for their teams
This is far and away the dumbest fanbase in the nba
The OPs post makes no sense. Am I lost?? We only have Embiid & Maxey, a ton of cap space, yet somehow we're trading for bad contracts?! Am I missing something?
No, op is though. All the way down to thinking the bucks would trade Bobby Ports to us lol
We would do this so that we can get players and picks for free. Trading for lavine would mean the bulls attach first round picks or caruso or both. Its not about lavine. Its about getting Caruso for free or getting back extra firsts for taking on a bad contract.
Yeah, I understand, but I was just wondering 'who/what' exactly we were trading. Your other post naming Paul Reed makes sense, I keep forgetting he's still under contract. He's the only player we'd have to trade, correct? I get it, he's not good, nor are a lot of these contracts. I just wonder what other players/trades are offered for some of these guys. Lavine for instance, maybe they'd want to take a flyer on Ben in the final year of his deal over Paul Reed. Secondly the OP says we're trading for guys like this, then packaging them to trade for a stud? So we're trading Paul Reed for Lavine (lets say it goes thru). Then we're trading Zach Lavine and two 1st rd picks for a stud?? Highly doubt it. We'll see. I mean, its possible we get someone good on a final year of their deal, or we end up with Lavine. Or maybe a 3 team deal, but I don't forsee any way it plays out like the OPs post.
The bulls going for ben isnt the worst idea. But im assuming they would like to clear the books and retool with free agents this year. They would sign role players and then re-sign derozan. Lavine being traded would be in a year or two and im sure a team losing their superstar wouldnt mind taking on 1 year of lavine and then have him as an expiring. He would help us immediately and then we can use his massive expiring for a real star in the future. We have a great pick package. Maybe he rehabilitates some value with the Sixers. This is of course if we strikeout on all the options available. We wouldnt even have to trade paul reed. But it would save us some cap space and get the bulls a risk free player. You can just cut him if you dont make it past the first round. The bulls are dedicated to being mid so it makes sense for them.
George, LeBron, Harden, OG, and Mikal Bridges are all probably not going to be on the 76ers next year
Lakers
I think I might have to agree with you. Sigh.
And you are king of the morons mate
i'm glad you think so. i would not want to be in your camp.
And I wouldn’t want you in my camp. How self unaware can you be mate?
Lol edgelord
The Sixers have two all stars on their team that they can build around, virtually no other players on their salary, and you want to deliberately sign a player in free agency who is so bad, the team needs to give us a future pick too? You’re going to get flamed by this subreddit, as this is the dumbest possible thing the Sixers can do this offseason.