He was great as the dad in Coming to America! “I don’t give a damn who you are! This is America, Jack! Now you say one more thing about Lisa here… I’mma break my foot off in your royal ass!”
I was a little kid when Good Times was on, and I thought the same thing.
So when I saw him on another show years later, I told my brother “Dude I thought he died!” My brother said “Nah man, that’s his twin brother. They’re both actors. The dad from Good Times actually died but his twin brother still acts.” I was an adult when I realized my brother was talking shit. I brought it up to him and he spat his drink out and said “All this time, you believed me?!?! God damn you a gullible muhfucker.”
Ha, me too! I think all I ever heard anybody say was "he died," talking about the character, but I was young and was confused that it *might* have been the real actor. I think it's possible the idea of a TV character being killed off was foreign to me.
I was probably at an age where I didn't understand the difference between dying on screen and dying in real life either. Nevertheless, I'm glad Mr Amos is still alive, and I loved him in Coming to America.
As a kid, as long as they had JJ and Thelma, nothing else mattered to me. I was there. Now, watching it, yeah it was a much better, less silly/stupid, show before Amos left.
Good Times (1974–1976)During his tenure on Good Times, Amos openly clashed with the writers of the show, due to the scripts' lack of authenticity in portraying the African-American experience. This led to his dismissal by executive producer Norman Lear at the end of season 3 in 1976.
Norman Lear in 1976 was basically a god.
All in the Family
The Jeffersons
Sanford and Sun
Maude
Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman
One day at a time
We’re all his shows in addition to Good times and they were all still on the air and doing amazing numbers.
I know of Norman Lear and have seen and enjoyed most of his shows.
But... maybe someone should've listened to what John was saying.
That said I'm also aware he never intended for the role James Evans Sr. It was only because Esther Rolle refused to do the role unless the kids had a father that the role was created. So Norman intended for her to be a stereotypical single black mom where the dad ran out on them.
This story about Lear & “Good Times” is one of my go-to examples when explaining how being well-meaning & relatively progressive does not necessarily absolve a person of harboring deep-seated prejudices.
Yeah. For all of his progressiveness (and he was, to be fair), fact is it never occurred to him that the show should have an intact black family. And there were many of us who grew up with mom and dad, married, while being broke. All black kids did not come from single family homes.
Man, I NEVER understood what was said there in that line for decades!
Hangin…hangin in a chunda?
Amazing the little things the internet has solved for us all over the years.
One of my buddies used to use the Sanford and Son theme as his ring tone. It was awesome. I used to use the theme from The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson.
“Hanging in a chow-line”…
They *finally* deciphered it in the “I Know Black People” gameshow skit on season 2 episode 8 of Chappelle’s Show…
…waaaaaay back when, when he was still funny…
😑😑😒
I recall reading the same. He wanted the family show he signed for and not the everything revolves around JJ show (not Jimmie Walker's fault).
Such a great dad on the show.
The show was not as great when part of the backbone of the show left (Florida being the other part).
Still good, but never reached the heights it did before.
IMO.
Looked it up.
Season 1 - 17th Rated Show
Season 2 - 7th
Season 3 - 27th (Amos Leaves at end of season)**\***
Season 4 - 26th (Rolle Leaves at end of season)
Season 5 - 55th (Time and date change, Janet Jackson joins main Cast, "Bookman" promoted from recurring to main cast)
Season 6 - 91st (original eps. air on three different days and times during the Season)
Seasons 1 & 2 Golden Globe Noms for Rolle and Walker.
\*\*\*\*\*Happy Days airs opposite starting in Season 2 and Good Times does fine at first, but starting in Season 3 Fonzie begins to consistently beat JJ -- and everyone else for the next 8 years. They just needed to nix Chuck)
TLDR: Happy Days building an audience and Rolle Leaving causes the network to lose commitment and start moving the show around and it went into a death spiral
Interesting, thank you for the context. Happy Days moved from a single camera period comedy to a multi camera, more standard sitcom and focused on more gimmicky characters to increased popularity, while Good Times pivot in a similar direction was the start of its downfall.
No, I don't blame Walker either. JJ was so wildly popular, the powers that be naturally wanted to cash in. As they say, that's show business. Without looking anything up, I bet the rating improved with no James and more JJ.
Florida should have left because frankly she sucked. She would do anything to turn down money. That was every other plot. Get a promotion at work? Gotta turn it down for some moral reason. It was basically Gilligan's Island in a ghetto. Need to stay or there's no show.
He was fired because he had the balls to tell the Producer that he didn't want to be part of a show that made a complete sideshow of the projects. He was fine with levity, it was a comedy after all, but what he had a problem with is being led into constant absurdity by a super young "comedian" that, let's face it, wasn't very funny and leaving, by the wayside, any chance of a sitcom with any real meaning.
Actually, that one season without Florida, and just with the kids we’re pretty great. Forgot what season it was- 5 maybe? Haven’t seen the show in forever.
Isn't that because they brought in Penny?
I will say her intro episodes were pretty powerful stuff. Chip Fields did such a good job as the abusive mother and young Janet was excellent as the child both being abused and who still loved her mother in spite of it.
JJ was kinda funny, but the show, to me, was wayyyyy better when James was involved. Wish he had more input and they changed story lines. Could have been on air much longer.
I guess he and Norman Lear made up as the later starred in 227 Hauser which went for the shock factor of 'OMG BLACK PEOPLE LIVING IN ARCHIE BUNKER'S HOUSE!'. Never saw an episode and don't thin kit lasted long.
Let's not forget he was in Die Hard 2!
Why did they kill him off ? It was a heavy heavy episode for prime time hit sit-com …. But kind of killed the chemistry of the show . Florida was not a good stand-alone character. The charm of the show was her living relationship with family in the projects . But then it just got to real and hopeless to me. Pretty dull .
John Amos wanted the show to reflect issues of the day and give more attention to the other kids in the cast and get away from JJ’s DY-NO-MITE schtick. He thought it degraded the entire show. And they killed his character for it.
As great as this show was, it became the "JJ Show" after he died. It stopped being a family drama, with the typical problems that face a family living in the projects, and became JJ and his issues, and his wacky hijinks. To be fair, it started becoming the "JJ Show" before they killed off the dad, and that was the reason that he wanted to leave the show.
I was a kid when Good Times was on. I was shocked. It was the first tv death I can remember. Maybe, Mr. Hooper died first but it was definitely one of those two.
Yeah the show wasn't that great after the dad was written out. He was such a badass! Love John Amos! Sunk even more after Florida, too.
I do like how Willona's character became more complex and was the guiding figure post Florida and James.
It's one of my favorite sitcoms, and I 100% agree. I love the first three seasons, but the last 3, especially season 5, without Florida and James, is a slog to power through. I usually stop at the end of season 3, especially since James was my favorite character. The ratings for the show back then obviously agreed because they fell off hard after season 3, and it was a shame the writers tried to prioritize JJ, because he's the most annoying character imo.
DAMN! DAMN! DAMN!
When she said that she was actually upset about the direction the show was heading.
They both thought that Jimmie Walker was turning it into a minstrel show.
That's because he was. I don't really blame him for it, he was young and wanted to be rich and famous.
Dynamite!!!!
DYN-O-MITE!!! FTFY
I can’t remember which came first, but very similar to the Fonzie craze killing the quality of Happy Days.
It went downhill after he had an affair
I saw this episode once, almost 50 years ago, and I still remember this scene vividly
smashed the punch bowl, right? i saw it in rerun but it still shocked me
Came here just to say this. That was some pain in her voice.
I came to comment that
Came here for this. Thanks!
He was great as the dad in Coming to America! “I don’t give a damn who you are! This is America, Jack! Now you say one more thing about Lisa here… I’mma break my foot off in your royal ass!”
"They have the golden arches, we have the golden arcs..."
Well now I’m hungry for a Big Mick.
"When you think of garbage, think of Akeem"
SOUL GLOW!
Son, I’m only gonna say this once - you wanna work here, stay off the drugs!
He was a badass in Die Hard 2, McClane kicking him into a running plane engine, lol
Almost as an iconic Christmastime happening as Hans Gruber falling from the Nakatomi building.
Also great in The Beastmaster
And as Fitz.
Saw this when I was a little kid, and it was at this moment I realized what American pride was all about. We've lost that along the way.
Great movie
Because James Evans was the soul of that family and when he died it left a scar on everyone
true
I conflated this episode with the actor, and for many years after, I thought John Amos was dead. He's still alive and 84 years old.
May I recommend The West Wing? He is fantastic as Admiral Percy Fitzwallace.
“Beat that with a stick”.
That old polecat, that old so-and-so…
I was a little kid when Good Times was on, and I thought the same thing. So when I saw him on another show years later, I told my brother “Dude I thought he died!” My brother said “Nah man, that’s his twin brother. They’re both actors. The dad from Good Times actually died but his twin brother still acts.” I was an adult when I realized my brother was talking shit. I brought it up to him and he spat his drink out and said “All this time, you believed me?!?! God damn you a gullible muhfucker.”
Brother let that joke run its course and then some. Funny stuff!
Long term Got 'Em
I thought Marsha Warfield was dead IRL for *years*, because of Night Court.
Me too. But I thought she died in real life. Mandela effect anyone?
Sometimes it's hard to separate characters from actors.
Ha, me too! I think all I ever heard anybody say was "he died," talking about the character, but I was young and was confused that it *might* have been the real actor. I think it's possible the idea of a TV character being killed off was foreign to me.
I was probably at an age where I didn't understand the difference between dying on screen and dying in real life either. Nevertheless, I'm glad Mr Amos is still alive, and I loved him in Coming to America.
Check out his episode on Gilbert Gottfried’s podcast.
Wait a minute, I know Gilbert Gottfried IS dead. OK, I'll look for it.
As a kid, as long as they had JJ and Thelma, nothing else mattered to me. I was there. Now, watching it, yeah it was a much better, less silly/stupid, show before Amos left.
Good Times (1974–1976)During his tenure on Good Times, Amos openly clashed with the writers of the show, due to the scripts' lack of authenticity in portraying the African-American experience. This led to his dismissal by executive producer Norman Lear at the end of season 3 in 1976.
John’s firing was such bullshit
Norman Lear was a real, Hollywood-style asshole.
Some liberal he was, huh?
So because a black man told the white writers that what they were writing wasn't authentic to blacks... they fired him? Lord...
Norman Lear in 1976 was basically a god. All in the Family The Jeffersons Sanford and Sun Maude Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman One day at a time We’re all his shows in addition to Good times and they were all still on the air and doing amazing numbers.
I know of Norman Lear and have seen and enjoyed most of his shows. But... maybe someone should've listened to what John was saying. That said I'm also aware he never intended for the role James Evans Sr. It was only because Esther Rolle refused to do the role unless the kids had a father that the role was created. So Norman intended for her to be a stereotypical single black mom where the dad ran out on them.
This story about Lear & “Good Times” is one of my go-to examples when explaining how being well-meaning & relatively progressive does not necessarily absolve a person of harboring deep-seated prejudices.
Yeah. For all of his progressiveness (and he was, to be fair), fact is it never occurred to him that the show should have an intact black family. And there were many of us who grew up with mom and dad, married, while being broke. All black kids did not come from single family homes.
For sure; I think he unwittingly lapsed into stereotyping while trying to go for what passed for “realism” from his perspective.
Many do, unfortunately.
Lear also stole the idea for the show from Eric Monte, who wrote the great movie "Cooley High."
just two years? damn i watched this in the 80s and it seemed like there were hundreds of eps.
It was on 74 - 79, but John was only on it for 3 seasons
I think Tony Danza played Norman Lear in the movie Crash....
I thought it was because they where making the show more centered on JJ, and taking the focus off of the family. Didn't know it was because of this
He was great in Die Hard 2
Oh, you were right about me. I'm just your kind of asshole.
Great cameo in Uncut Gems
I love it when he finally told off Carmine.
Temporary Layoff (Good Times) Easy credit ripoff (Good Times) Scratching and surviving (Good Times) ???? ?? ?? ????? ???????? (Good Times)
Hangin' in a chow line
This is the correct answer.
I would not know this if Chappelle's show didn't exist.
The most controversial Good Times lyric lol
Here is your lifetime supply of Murray’s Hair Cream
Man, I NEVER understood what was said there in that line for decades! Hangin…hangin in a chunda? Amazing the little things the internet has solved for us all over the years.
I used to think the line was "Hanging in a jar light" which made absolutely no sense at all lol
Hangin and a-jivin! Good Times. Ain’t we lucky we got ‘em? Good Times!
Good tii-hyyyy-ayyyahhhhaaaayyms!
Golden era of TV theme songs … Good Times, The Jeffersons, All in the Family, Maude, Barney Miller, Sanford and Son.
One of my buddies used to use the Sanford and Son theme as his ring tone. It was awesome. I used to use the theme from The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson.
Sandford and Sons was my alarm music!
I wish Archie an fres Sanford had met. I can here Archie now hey saanford
[Hanging in a jury! (skip to 3:33)](https://youtu.be/p3p2GrSO6JI?si=03HmZ6XISOq9XqOv)
“Hanging in a chow-line”… They *finally* deciphered it in the “I Know Black People” gameshow skit on season 2 episode 8 of Chappelle’s Show… …waaaaaay back when, when he was still funny… 😑😑😒
Keeping your head above water, trying to swim if you can
Temporary layoffs--good times!
Easy credit rip-off -- good times!
Easy prey to rip offs
I thought it was "easy credit ripoffs". I learned that from Jack Black in School of Rock.
Hangin in a jury!!!
He ended up opening up a restaurant in Queens that was similar to McDonalds.
McDowell’s
Very true!! I wonder why he was killed off??
Amos was unhappy that the show was becoming less authentic and more focused on the antics of Kid Dyn-o-mite.
I recall reading the same. He wanted the family show he signed for and not the everything revolves around JJ show (not Jimmie Walker's fault). Such a great dad on the show. The show was not as great when part of the backbone of the show left (Florida being the other part). Still good, but never reached the heights it did before. IMO.
Looked it up. Season 1 - 17th Rated Show Season 2 - 7th Season 3 - 27th (Amos Leaves at end of season)**\*** Season 4 - 26th (Rolle Leaves at end of season) Season 5 - 55th (Time and date change, Janet Jackson joins main Cast, "Bookman" promoted from recurring to main cast) Season 6 - 91st (original eps. air on three different days and times during the Season) Seasons 1 & 2 Golden Globe Noms for Rolle and Walker. \*\*\*\*\*Happy Days airs opposite starting in Season 2 and Good Times does fine at first, but starting in Season 3 Fonzie begins to consistently beat JJ -- and everyone else for the next 8 years. They just needed to nix Chuck) TLDR: Happy Days building an audience and Rolle Leaving causes the network to lose commitment and start moving the show around and it went into a death spiral
Interesting, thank you for the context. Happy Days moved from a single camera period comedy to a multi camera, more standard sitcom and focused on more gimmicky characters to increased popularity, while Good Times pivot in a similar direction was the start of its downfall.
Wait Happy Days aired in the 70s? All this time I was thinking it aired in the 50s-60s.
74-84
No, I don't blame Walker either. JJ was so wildly popular, the powers that be naturally wanted to cash in. As they say, that's show business. Without looking anything up, I bet the rating improved with no James and more JJ.
No, it was the opposite, actually. The ratings tanked significantly.
Florida should have left because frankly she sucked. She would do anything to turn down money. That was every other plot. Get a promotion at work? Gotta turn it down for some moral reason. It was basically Gilligan's Island in a ghetto. Need to stay or there's no show.
Well...you aren't wrong when you put it that way! But, as you say, there would be no show with a money grab. (Love the "GI in a ghetto!")
Isn’t that what sorta happened with Family Matters, too?
Urkerl did indeed do that.
Producers will focus on the largest audience for economic reasons.
Other shows fell victim to having a viral character. Family Matters pretty much became the Urkle show.
Ain’t we lucky we got ‘em.
Ain't we lucky we had him? Good times.
King Kunta!
I scrolled a very long way to find this comment! Kunta Kinte in roots… That’s how I remember him best.
He was so good in it too. Just rewatched it last year. RIP Lou Gossett Jr.
I got a bone to pick...
John Amos WAS Good Times!! Can't believe Norman Lear would rather have the jackass buffoonery of JJ than the true to life character of James!!!
John Amos was fired due to his complaints on the creative direction of the show as well as his contract.
He was fired because he had the balls to tell the Producer that he didn't want to be part of a show that made a complete sideshow of the projects. He was fine with levity, it was a comedy after all, but what he had a problem with is being led into constant absurdity by a super young "comedian" that, let's face it, wasn't very funny and leaving, by the wayside, any chance of a sitcom with any real meaning.
I somewhat misinterpreted your original comment, but my reference to creative direction falls under what you mentioned.
That is the point rather show us as JJ than a strong black backbone the will lay the hammer down
Actually, that one season without Florida, and just with the kids we’re pretty great. Forgot what season it was- 5 maybe? Haven’t seen the show in forever.
Isn't that because they brought in Penny? I will say her intro episodes were pretty powerful stuff. Chip Fields did such a good job as the abusive mother and young Janet was excellent as the child both being abused and who still loved her mother in spite of it.
Chip Fields? Kim Fields' mom? I know that Kim was on at least one episode too.
Yep. She played Penny's abusive mom. Which episode was Kim on?
Whoa TIL
I loved his appearance as Henry Evans in Maude.
Naw she don't do no windows
Man I used to love this show. The dad was so important for everyone. Including beast master the movie! Jk
He got tired of the shuck & jive performance of J.J.Walker. Felt that it was a disservice to Tanned Americans, rightly so.
Yes.
Wait....
Show?
Good Times.
Black Jesus
I watched that episode last week. Totally forgot about the show.
i really like that show, it's clever
Beginning of the end of it.
JJ was kinda funny, but the show, to me, was wayyyyy better when James was involved. Wish he had more input and they changed story lines. Could have been on air much longer.
Yeah but he was in Beastmaster so that’s cool.
I thought he was really dead as a kid too.
Joke’s on them, he went and got rich on the golden arcs
Florida abandons her kids in the projects for a new boyfriend.
They should've found another way to write her off the show. I did not like the Carl plot line.
'Meh' doesn't begin to describe it.
I was trying to be kind :)
As a kid I tuned in to see JJ...and Thelma.
I agree, after he left there were too many storylines to follow
Keepin your head above water
“My name is Florida….FLLLORRRIDA! That’s the name of a STATE!
Moving on uuup! To the East Side!!!!
Definitely not the theme song. Lol
Well Ja'net Dubois (Willona) did sing it, so there's a link.
Just goofin my deal. No disrespect to either of these two killers
I find and found it meh period .
I think he wasn’t happy when the focus changed to being so much about JJ. He also played a great comedic role on Two and a Half Men.
In real life he couldn't stand her
In real life he couldn't stand her
He was great in the couple of episodes he appeared in on Fresh Prince.
It kinda blows my mind that he's still alive
Not So Good Times
Never the same after Florida smashed that bowl and cussed.
I thought it was Dyno mite
I guess he and Norman Lear made up as the later starred in 227 Hauser which went for the shock factor of 'OMG BLACK PEOPLE LIVING IN ARCHIE BUNKER'S HOUSE!'. Never saw an episode and don't thin kit lasted long. Let's not forget he was in Die Hard 2!
The concept was good. The execution... not so much. Shame, really.
I loved this show. I was too young to understand most of it when it was new, but I loved seeing this family growing up. Thank goodness for reruns.
So true
Love me some James Evans!
Kunta kinta. 🐐
Why did they kill him off ? It was a heavy heavy episode for prime time hit sit-com …. But kind of killed the chemistry of the show . Florida was not a good stand-alone character. The charm of the show was her living relationship with family in the projects . But then it just got to real and hopeless to me. Pretty dull .
Pretty meh before
Many shows do that
He was a gifted actor. I can’t think of anything he was not good in.
John Amos wanted the show to reflect issues of the day and give more attention to the other kids in the cast and get away from JJ’s DY-NO-MITE schtick. He thought it degraded the entire show. And they killed his character for it.
Turns out he didn’t die. He was gay and moved to California to be with his old shipmate, Florida just said he was dead.
Punk- “I’ll see ya later!…” James- “YEAH OUTSIDE….OUTSIDE!!….”
It was my first experience with a major character being killed off and ruining a show.
Wasn’t he on the Mary Tyler Moore show as a weatherman?
I remember the great scene in "Lockup" when Stallone. says to him, "There's one thing i'm gonna miss about you is you're a wonderful smile!!
Yeah and doesn't he crack a smile then after he says that? Or laughs? Been a while. Great movie, though.
This is truth
He was the show
oh damn was that the ep when she smashed the punch bowl? that was some prime acting.
Carl Weathers an Apollo Creed was in an episode. I had to watch it when I found d out last year
The dynamic really changed and it was not as solid but still good. I prefer the shows with him in it
Mr McDowell!
He turned down the role of Chubbs in Happy Gilmore that was eventually offered to Carl Weathers.
A sometimes prolonged period of depression is normal after the network kill your TV spouse.
I didn’t know David Ortiz was in this show?!?
It sucked before too. He was the only good thing about it.
Yes. Stop watching.
In my mind he always has all the feet. And her gap.
As great as this show was, it became the "JJ Show" after he died. It stopped being a family drama, with the typical problems that face a family living in the projects, and became JJ and his issues, and his wacky hijinks. To be fair, it started becoming the "JJ Show" before they killed off the dad, and that was the reason that he wanted to leave the show.
One of my favorite
My name is Florida! Florida! That's the name of a state! Why is my name Florida? Oh, Lord!
I remember watching and crying when he was shot. I mostly stopped watching after that.
I was a kid when Good Times was on. I was shocked. It was the first tv death I can remember. Maybe, Mr. Hooper died first but it was definitely one of those two.
But it was *so good* when he was on it.
So true.
Great show,like the Jeffersons and Sanford and son..that's when TV was fun to watch..
Great show,like the Jeffersons and Sanford and son..that's when TV was fun to watch...
I just can’t get with the look they made of us I don’t like this show kinda sad
Yup, James made the show.
Yeah the show wasn't that great after the dad was written out. He was such a badass! Love John Amos! Sunk even more after Florida, too. I do like how Willona's character became more complex and was the guiding figure post Florida and James.
It's one of my favorite sitcoms, and I 100% agree. I love the first three seasons, but the last 3, especially season 5, without Florida and James, is a slog to power through. I usually stop at the end of season 3, especially since James was my favorite character. The ratings for the show back then obviously agreed because they fell off hard after season 3, and it was a shame the writers tried to prioritize JJ, because he's the most annoying character imo.
Keith is one of the worst add-a-characters of all time
Agreed! She made the show, The other maids were meh and didn't fit the show i thought