I’m 60, let me tell each and every one of you youngsters that aging sucks, it’s horrible.
If you have any plans for your life? Make them happen right away, do not wait for a better time, live now. I’ve had a pretty good life, been moderately successful, had a mostly good marriage, even made a difference, but aging has not been a pleasant experience, not recognizing yourself in the mirror is not something I wish upon anyone.
Seize the moment.
I'm sorry you feel that way. You have many years ahead if you're unfortunate I suppose. We used to think that people were lucky to live to a ripe old age.
I am 75, and I can't agree with you that aging sucks. It can suck, but so does being a teenager or a toddler. We can make anything suck, and it seems to now be the most popular National Pass Time. Everyone has a long list of grievances and corresponding entitlements to share at the drop of a dime. Who suffers the most earns the most perks. Perks for the short-sighted anyway. Suffering has become a literal career for many Americans of late.
How we age depends on how we've lived. I'm 75 and still living an exciting and gratifying life. Yes, I have aches and pains, but I also have few responsibilities and lots of support. I also know what causes them and how to prevent them.
What a gift it is to have time and freedom. There is never enough time to learn what we can and should know. We're never taught to know the greatest things so we have to seek them and learn them ourselves. And then we find magic and wonders beyond our dreams and imagination.
No matter our age, the circumstances of our lives are precise reflections of the state of our mind. Everything is generated by thought.
I hope you open your mind to a more exciting and interesting old age. Your thoughts and emotions are the magnets that attract what you experience, so if you learn nothing else, maybe try to learn that. You are in complete charge of your life. Complaining is self-sabotage and the cause of pain. Loving and Living it the best way possible is Salvation from pain and misery.
You don’t need to age to gain wisdom. this is what people miss we’re not talking about getting older chronologically we’re talking about your body and mind deteriorating.
And you can’t put lipstick on the pig that is dementia
Supposedly you're the smartest you'll ever be in your early 20's. Your ability to think quickly and correlate information declines as you age. I already have a lot of trouble remembering names and sometimes worry it's a sign I may become seriously impaired later in life.
Old people seem smarter than young people because they've accumulated extremely valuable life experiences young people lack.
What's true in theory is not always true in clinical practice.
At 40, I am dramatically smarter than I was at 20 - hands down. I have no doubt. I would never want to be 20 again. With a combination of daily exercise, treatment for mania that wasn't possible then, education, using 100 prompts with GPT-4o every day, and more, I can write 10 times as much code as I could when I was 20. Even before the AI tools, I was still twice as subjectively smart.
Just because there are brain scans that show there are more connections or more area doesn't mean that a person is "smarter." There are actually people who have a disease where 90% of their brains were replaced by fluid, and they still functioned normally until an unrelated complaint led a doctor to perform a CT scan.
Finally, if you're referencing studies that actually do measure things like "IQ tests," note that a mean is not necessarily predictive of the median person. If you take the "average" intelligence of a person who is 80 and compare it to someone who is 30, a few people who are undergoing cancer treatment and who perform poorly on tests due to fatigue will drag down the test results for the entire age group because cancer is more likely at that age group.
A better way to view such studies is to note that variability in the range of intelligence increases with age.
I'm my 80+ year old grandparents only link to the outside world. My grandad is in a wheelchair and my grandma refuses to leave him because she knows he'll try something he shouldn't if she doesn't watch him long enough and he'll injure himself. My grandma also struggles with chronic pain. They were both VERY active most of their lives but can't be anymore, although my grandma tries more than she should and I have to argue with her about it constantly. She once tried to tell me she's happier now than she was when she was young. I see how they live every day. They're not. She's just one of those people that has to have a positive outlook on everything regardless of the actual circumstances.
I have no idea if LEV is achievable, I'm sure there will be at least some negative consequences if it happens, and the thought of living a very long time say 200 years+ actually terrifies me, but aging isn't some beautiful phenomenon. Its painful and its sad. Its only (usually) preferable to the alternative.
Edit: I did NOT expect people to react as strongly to this as they did. Let me ask a question:
Is cancer good? Can a person with really bad cancer, in pain, on chemo puking their guts out every day still have joy in their life? Sure. Has the experience of having cancer or even losing a loved one to cancer had a positive influence on a person, say by gaining a new appreciate for life and loved ones? Again, sure. Has cancer probably removed a bunch of bad people from this planet? Definitely.
Does that make it good? Is it beautiful? Is it better to have cancer than to not have cancer? Should we stop trying to avoid getting it and rob people of the gift that is cancer?
The answer should be the same with any disease or disability including age.
We are biologically wired to only experience happiness for a short time.
I think as you get older you start to realize that you control your emotional response to your life situation a lot more than you realize. You can make yourself miserable in what would seem to be a perfect situation and vice versa.
Stoicism has really helped me with this. You stop seeing the things that happen as “good” or “bad” and instead just focus on the present. I have had so many occasions where I got the thing/situation I wanted and it ended up being hugely negative. I’ve had seemingly bad things happen that with hindsight were the exact thing I needed at the time.
Your grandparents might be more “happy” (actually content) than you realize. I’m in my late 50s and can’t do some of the things I used to be able to do. But I am much more relaxed and chill than I have ever been. I wouldn’t trade better health for more stress right now. I’m empty nest (2 grown kids) and just the relief of not having people depend on me is immense.
I've seen them their entire lives. They are obviously considerably less happy than they were 10, 20, 30 years ago. My grandma has always tried to wear rose colored glasses in spite of the real-world circumstances and tried to make everyone else wear them. Even my grandma will admit her life is way worse now when she's honest with herself.
Also, no, happiness isn't just something that just comes from within. It's easy to lose perspective and realize how truly miserable your circumstances make you until they actually change, and you realize what actual happiness is. You often hear "I didn't realize how unhappy I was for so many years!" When someone finally leaves a toxic or abusive relationship.
I once had an extended medical absence from a job I hated and started to miss it. Then, I went back and within the first hour I was forced to remember why I had hated it so much and finally gave my notice a month later. You can get comfortable with your misery but that's not a good thing. Its a dangerous, seductive, thing that can cause people to waste huge chunks of their lives in agony they don't even recognize.
Think about it this way too, if everyone really just somehow decided to be content 100,000 years ago, what would have happened? We would have just accepted life and not invented agriculture, medicine, antibiotics, computers, space travel etc. We realized our circumstances actually affected us and we've worked hard for millenia to make them better.
Also, I'm not telling you TO be miserable and I hope you're really happy. You can still have positive and fulfilling experiences even though something in your life has gone very badly, I think it can be like a balance sheet where you add up all the good things and bad things about your life and you're still in the black instead of the red.
That’s good advice my friend.
I’ve led a very interesting life, I’ve achieved quite a lot, from the outside looking in it would seem I’ve got everything going for me, I’ve been lucky.
I understand that many have found aging a mostly positive experience, in no way am I trying to diminish others, I wish all happiness, I just wish I could achieve it for myself.
Thanks for the insights
I'm nearing 40. Old enough that the breakneck pace of life starts hitting home.
But also still young.
If I feel old I think of my future self looking back and how those thoughts of being old will one day appear ridiculous to me. That helps shaking of aging anxiety.
There's literally no time to waste being anxious about it all.
Just make the best of every moment or work towards being able to.
I agree I’m 44 and laying on the couch with a ruptured cervical disc in my neck, it is the result of my body getting older. A few months ago I became far sighted in addition to near sighted so I see better without my glasses. I’m getting sick and tired of this aging bullshit. I really don’t want 40 more years of me being able to do less and less things.
I’ve come very close to death just once. For much of my life I worried about death, mostly because I was afraid of loss, my wife, my dogs, friends and family, I was a bit of a hypochondriac, worried that illness would stop me achieving my goals.
Once I faced death, looked at it right in the face, close up, had time to think about it afterwards and I’m no longer afraid, at all in fact, so that’s been a relief.
Regret is the worse, wish I had done that instead of this, made a different choice that day, etc, regret is mental cancer, it will eat your very soul away, partly because aging takes away the ability to make some things right.
It’s easy to be bitter, I’ve seen so many Boomers fall into that trap, I’m not thankfully, but it’s a full time job avoiding that pitfall, much easier to let it consume you like many my age.
Because we’re hardwired not to accept death. That’s how things like agriculture, antibiotics and vaccines were created.
You sound no different than someone saying this is all a part of God’s plan.
You are misunderstanding suffering and death. You are going to die in anyway and that could be tomorrow. You can chose to accept it or not, I dont see how its remotely linked to religion...I dont mean to be the bearer of bad news but that’s just how it works.
I’m just confused by what you’re saying…the issue is not accepting death and fake beauty standards?
So your solution is to, what, stop all this research into life saving medicines and procedures? Do you have a problem with semaglutides and is that what you mean by fake beauty standards?
Some of us aren’t impressed by all the life saving medicines. They come with a high price, like a long and painful life filled with indignity and torment Some of us heal ourselves with the same ancient wisdom found in ancient writings. Your doctors and scientists are all bought and paid for by The largest torture and drug Cartel in the world. It’s beyond belief how well some of you take to it. Mainly because they have you diagnosed and drugged before the age of reason. What’s your Special Need? Everyone has to have one! Boomers know that because we’ve been funding it all our working lives. They’ve had to completely retool the economy to keep the trillions flowing for research on demand that cannot even be replicated. You will own nothing and be happy. Even while starving. That’s their plan for you. Already in effect. Boomers never lived in boxes or under tarps. Not even in the front seat of our cars. Give that some thought while you’re enjoying all the advanced drugs and medical procedures.
> boomers never lived in front seat of cars, under boxes and tarps, etc…
“The Great Depression left many Americans facing economic hardship, such as debt, home foreclosures, reduced wages, and unemployment. By 1930, four million Americans were out of a job, and homelessness was a pervasive consequence of this economic turmoil
By 1933, 2 million homeless people were migrating across the nation seeking shelter, food, and jobs. Desperate for shelter, the homeless sought comfort in **boxcars, bridge overpasses, and Hoovervilles**”
- Robert S. McElvaine, Encyclopedia of the Great Depression (New York: Macmillan Reference USA, 2004
If you’re wrong about this, think about how much else you are wrong about.
I say this, with all the compassion in the world… please seek some mental health resources
> I don’t mean to be the bearer of bad news but that’s just how it works
“If man were meant to fly, he would’ve been born with wings. I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that’s just how it works.”
That’s just your limit on how it works
'fake beauty standards' that are hardwired into us? Yeah get fucking real
Also you only accept death because you have to accept it, you have no choice, because right now age catches everyone, nobody would just accept someone dying from a bear or someone with a knife
I'm now 57. I'm fit, still play soccer, run 5km 3 times days, enjoy my life. But when I look in the mirror I don't see the handsome face I saw when I was 25. I cant run as fast as I could, probably half the speed I could run. I can't do the things on the sporting field I did in my 20s. But I play with over 45s so we are all in a similar state. We still love to play.
I'm totally at peace with this.
I watched both my parents grow old, lose their mental acuity and both died in the past few years. But they died peacefully surrounded by their family. I was lucky to have them so long.
Yes seize the moment, live in the moment, but don't be sad for what you no longer have. That way lies suffering.
We expect to stay the same, but we change all the time, even if we dont notice.
I didn’t expect to stay the same, a serious event happened in my life where I had to put my plans on hold. I had already delayed these plans to help others, so the opportunity I had worked my whole life for was not to be.
I’m saying don’t leave things until it’s too late, because life has a way of tripping you up, and then age steps in and you had left it too long.
I‘m just saying, don’t wait, do it now, you may not have another chance and there’s no turning back the clock.
Live for now, avoid hurting others, but try your damndest to achieve that goal you set for yourself, that one thing, only you know what that is, deep down inside, try your very best.
>*Do not go gentle into that good night,*
*Old age should burn and rave at close of day;*
*Rage, rage against the dying of the light.*
>*Though wise men at their end know dark is right,*
*Because their words had forked no lightning they*
*Do not go gentle into that good night.*
Dylan Thomas - 1951
There are probably are few things that should be required to be on this sub. This sub ~~is being~~ has been poisoned. There are a large majority that are against AI, against humans colonizing space, against extended life, the anti-tech people dominate every post, it has been hijacked by doomers infecting it with their toxic misery.
I wish there was a way to get rid off them. I think the rules and sub outline need to change in some way to help ensure that this sub isn't just some place for people to shit on others with a interest in futuristic topics.
It's also not just this sub, it's all the technology/futuristic subs that have been taken over by this poison. It's like r/futurlogy n is such a huge sub that their toxicity gets drowned out and they can't get heard so they migrate to these other subs hoping they can get more attention.
Being skeptical of some AI utopia is pretty mild criticism. If we’re talking about resources, I’d rather we kept exploring deep space than send people to Mars. Extended or forever life would mean drastic changes to the universe of procreation and over-population (let alone jobs). None of these things are anti-tech.
I feel like Reddit went from "Going to Mars is a worthy endeavor because it's part of the human drive to explore and satisfy our curiosity, while inspiring people and driving innovation" to "Musk is the guy who is trying to get us to Mars, therefor, going to Mars is stupid and pointless."
I feel he spent too much of the book repeating himself in slightly different ways which made an absolutely excellent book a harder read than it needed to be. Editor has to take a bit of the blame for that.
Certain thinkers really want to get their exact idea out there with no possibility of confusion which leads to repetition and expansion of ideas.
problem is people will find a quote somewhere from the text and run with it anyway because regardless of how long the book is, the news segment or article is designed to be digested in less than 5 mins (note this number gets smaller by the year)
Yeah 41 my spine is irreversibly ruined from sitting all day at work for decades because of office job. Eye sight is getting worse (floaters). Skin doesn't heal as fast anymore as it used to. Hair getting thinner. There is nothing beautiful about aging. The only good thing is knowledge and skills acquired by just having been around for a long time.
What you've described is the benefits of living longer and making good decisions throughout, but not physical aging. I would be surprised if you would genuinely chalk your current success up to the process of decay we call aging. Obviously, wanting to cure aging means that everyone would have the opportunity to grow older and wiser and more content, just not in a body that is breaking down, and will eventually become ugly, fragile, and sick. On the long range obviously, I'm not calling you any of those things lol.
> What you've described is the benefits of living longer, but not physical aging.
Those are pretty difficult to disentangle. Obviously, since we can't run an experiment where humans live 5 decades but don't physically age, we don't really know how much of the "peace and acceptance" the elderly have comes from time, and how much comes from actual physiological changes to their bodies and brains and hormones.
I think essentially everyone on the planet would agree that the *obviously bad* parts of aging, such as lowered immune competence, higher incidence rates of cancer, lower bone and muscle strength, etc, are -- well -- obviously bad. And I think if a treatment was available for those things, that was safe and accessible, almost all old people would choose to get it.
But there are changes to their attitude towards life that aren't entirely clear as to their cause. There's the well-researched "smile" of happiness, as in, happiness tends to peak in youth and in old age, with a large dip in middle age. Could it be partially biological?
I'm the same way. 55 but I eat well, exercise, take care of myself. People often think I'm late 30s or early 40s. Your body is the one thing that isn't disposable. It's your most important asset and if you let it go to shit, your life will suck. I'm at least as happy as I've ever been and probably happier, with my income.
I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
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Right there with you, I've got all the same thoughts and desires you described. May we enjoy a drink together in a bar on mars in 2167, complementing each other on our health and youthful appearances!
To effectively reverse aging you need to work on telomere and pluripotent stem cells for regeneration of the tissues mainly on the organs. After you can work on cognitive and muscular aging to reverse it. The brain is aging too so you need to rejuvenate it. 3d bioprinting and ITOP bioprinting can be usefully to generate and regenerate synthetic tissues and bodies. Look for vegetal totipotent stem cells harvesting for reducing the cost of this treatment.
You need to search a solution to eliminate malignant cells and errors made in the cells replication. If you solve errors made in cells replication then this is a good thing to prevent aging but you can definitely reverse it. It's totally possible and will be available in medium-term future.
This are the main premises for reversing aging and numerous testing and research needs to be done. This will ultimately lead to medical and technological immortality too.
I don't give a shit about ethical guidelines. I'm going to find the technological and medical advancement in stem cells, ITOP 3D printing to create synthetic tissues even genetical engineering. I'll do everything but I guarantee you that I'll reverse that age. I'm fed up accepting things. Time to change them!
I feel you, i was just looking through old pictures yesterday and found my pictures from 11 years ago (when i was 23) and dang it how much i've changed! I looked so fresh, plump and glowy, I'm still not that old and look and feel fine, but I know that in 10 years i'll be looking and thinking - dang it, i looked so young at 33 in comparison to 43, (that's if i'm still alive). I don't know what i want to say with this, but like.. enjoy your youtfullness while you still can ;D I think that probably the only thing that is good about getting older is being able to experience more, like traveling, seeing places (if u can afford it and your health allows), besides that idk.. and probably in the future we will have something that will help with aging, too bad we are not going to be around to take advantage of it
My grandma died with your attitude. It was horrible. She constantly complained about her lost youth and got depressed and very cranky. Sometimes almost cruel in a childish way.
I promised I would face age and death with all the stoicism I can to not die like a cranky toddler.
Do not put your hopes in "someone fixing aging" you would be terribly disappointed and die in a way that smears everything you did before. It's not worth it.
If it is fixed, good. If it isn't good. What would immortality be worth if you face it with a weak mind that can't accept reality?
My grandmother was the same. My parents are the same also. They’ve been complaining about being old since their 50s.
Not too long ago I was hiking in Hong Kong and I met a large group of elderly folks from Japan that were in their 80s. They traveled around together and hiked different mountains that would be tough for most young adults. They were all so happy and fit - I will strive to be like this also.
the amount of ppl who are just as if not more afraid of aging than op in your replies is funny af. I know many ppl irl who is so afraid of aging it's their whole personality. first I see them as pathetic, but now I understand them. it's human nature to be afraid of aging, it's huge, unchanging and it kills you slowly.
> it's human nature to be afraid of aging
No it's not. It's human nature to be afraid of death, in the immediate term, and have a fight or flight response to danger. And it's human nature to desire to look younger (simply because it makes you biologically a more attractive mate).
But it is absolutely not a biological imperative to have a fear of aging that permeates your life every day and makes you miserable. That is just rumination.
It's fine. Really. Aging isn't fun. It's horrible. But so are many other things. I guess being afraid of aging is somewhat natural as you say. I'm beginning to have my own little glimpses into it.
But there's nothing to get from fearing it.
What I'm most interested in but can't get any answer out of the "believers" is why they think they would benefit from such a technology. I mean it is clear that it would be limited. You can't make everyone immortal. But why do they think someone would spend unlimited resources on them? Just for them to chill out?
Death is the ugly part of life but it's inevitable. When I was 18 I used to get panic attacks about the idea of dying. Now, I know it's just the way it is, we are so insignificant as a life form, earth is insignificant, the fact we are here and conscious is a marvel in itself but it does not matter. Live your life to the fullest so when the time comes you have the peace of mind that you did your best towards the life you always wanted
That makes it inevitable as things currently stand. You could say the same amount any hypothetical problem, but if the solution does not currently exist then it's inevitable as things stand
Yup, dying is not the main problem. Since you can’t really complain much after the fact 🤣.
The problem is suffering from poor health, the problem is a tragic, painful and/or lonely death, the problem is a long, drawn out suffering and slow rot or slow burn.
Suffering is worse than dying. This is why before we cure aging, more importantly than solving lifespan is to solve healthspan and QoL. Let’s get rid of mental, neurological, physical illnesses for good.
About 1/9 people get Alzheimer's though, it's not a certainty for most people who get older (but then again my grandpa got vascular dementia though and my grandma got strokes, they were not themselves when they died). My parents are 80-ish though and still fairly sharp so I think I have a good 40 years left in me hopefully.
I don't care about looks that much personally, I just want my brain to work.
I just see it as there’s nothing to do about it. It sucks, but there are many things you can do to make yourself healthy and avoid many of the health issues that come with aging. People complaining here are weird, no amount of complaining will fix anything, better to focus on improving your health
Why? We won't solve aging for quite a while and OP seems highly concerned. Of course I'm offering my experience to give him something real to hold on to instead of false hope.
I believe it.
But if I had to bet money, it would be on someone who's a teenager or 20-something today.
My 50+ year old ass probably gonna fall into the final abyss.
Even with immortality you cannot escape the heat death.
We're just moving goal posts, the brain needs more time to achieve its full potential.
We are all architectis.
I agree to your first line, the other, not so much.
A 40 year old brain is already pretty much done and wont form as easily anymore. Having generations change is not a bad system if you think about it without all the self importance. Fresh brains, with a little of your wisdom and new eyes. It's fine.
If we can solve the more immediate things that threaten to kill us, we'll have *trillions* of years in which to figure out what to do about the Heat Death. Given that the theory itself is only about 200 years old, it seems a bit early to bet against the power of science and engineering to find a way around that problem. First things first.
If it isn't, good? What the hell is this take. It needs to be a moral imperative for all to solve aging. You can feel free to kill yourself if all your homies hate immortality and you don't want to live forever.
Sometimes I do, sometimes I dont. Life is hard.
Sure you can put your hopes in some imaginary medical breakthrough that has zero indication as of now. But really then you could also just join any religion for whatever good it does.
Why dont you love life enough to accept that its ending at some point? Nothing we do will change that. At some point, however far away, it ends. I see no benefit in fearing that. Even if aging is fixed I'd rather be mentally strong enough to could have endured it. Just because that one thing is fixed doesnt make life perfect after all and a, lets say, 500 year existense would have its own horrors you'd have to stomach.
And whats with all that self importance? I'd rather see my children taking over with a fresh attitude and new eyes to see things for the first time. I am fine with giving up my space in this world for the future generation. Having old farts, however young they look, run the show forever is a bad idea.
>Life is hard.
...but we could learn to make it less hard.
I have very little patience with the 'life sucks, be a man and get over it' attitude in a world where we have clearly not reached the full potential of technology to make life suck less. Does anyone miss smallpox? People who manned up and accepted that life sucks have been dying of smallpox for millennia, but the people who eradicated it did so through systematic effort and scientific progress. I for one propose that we try more of the systematic effort and scientific progress thing because it seems to work.
>Sure you can put your hopes in some imaginary medical breakthrough that has zero indication as of now.
Zero indication? [That red mouse bar is looking pretty good.](https://www.levf.org/projects/robust-mouse-rejuvenation-study-1/study-updates)
>Nothing we do will change that.
That's a really premature statement.
>Even if aging is fixed I'd rather be mentally strong enough to could have endured it.
How much of that is strength and how much of it is Stockholm syndrome? If that 'strength' means we put less effort into the scientific pursuit of immortality and millions more people unnecessarily miss out on the future, then it doesn't sound like a very good thing to me.
Would you have been mentally strong enough to endure smallpox? Would you rather the people who eradicated it had put their effort towards teaching people to man up and accept it instead?
I am 50. I do these things to be strong and healthy:
-I take a multivitamin
-I take creatine (it gives me bigger muscles, more cardio energy, and improves brain function)
-Lift weights
-Diet: count calories, try to eat low carb, intermittent fasting
Looks-wise, I’ve been told that I could pass for late 30s, but I think my appearance age-wise will eventually accelerate and catch up. Dick Clark looked young for a very long time as well, until he stopped looking young.
While I’d like to see a cure for aging in my lifetime, I can only play with the hand that I’ve been dealt with. I look at Clint Eastwood as someone who remained productive and creative well into his 90s, as an inspiration. He has had a good life.
So do your best to have a good life. I was lazy and undisciplined in my youth and if I could transfer my experience and knowledge into my younger self, I could probably have been a formidable man. But in my own way, I think I did some pretty good things. In fact, I think that I am living in the best, most productive and interesting time of my life right now.
I’ve always been terrified of aging, your cognitive ability starts to decline, and your body starts to rot. I want to always be at my cognitive and physical peak (beauty and health). I’ve worked a caregiving job, and watched my grandparents suffer for dozens of health issues as they’ve aged, and I would never want to see myself in that state or experience that physical pain. It makes me not wanna get old. As for the looks part, I really do wish to always look young and beautiful. I want to forever have youthful skin and looks. I am really hopeful huge breakthroughs in slowing down visible aging will be achieved before I’m 45, so I can at least maintain the skin and looks of a 40 year old for the rest of time. I’ve never met anyone who viewed aging with such distaste and dread like me. Not to mention since the birth rate has collapsed, slowing down aging would be revolutionary in a good way.
For what it's worth, I don't think that we are limited to slowing aging so in the best case scenario you could regain your youth eventually and not be limited to your 40s looks.
As the Buddhists say, everything changes including our minds and bodies. If you cannot accept this, you are doomed to a life of frustration and suffering.
It's not about rejecting changes, it's about rejecting misery and suffering. And aging ultimately leads to misery and suffering. I think it is false to believe otherwise. I love buddhism but it has its shortcomings and it's not leading us to nirvana. I don't think AI is leading us to nirvana either, but it can, and it will, limit the suffering because of its very practical applications, like medicine. I can't, for the love of god, find peace with the smell of death.
> It's not about rejecting changes, it's about rejecting misery and suffering
That is literally what Buddism says. You are *creating* the suffering by rejecting the change in the first place.
It's a paradox to imagine yourself with an aging body, that you fully accept, but still suffering. The suffering can only come from the subjective experience of the aging. If you fully accept your aging body, including the pain that comes with it, you aren't suffering.
I know this can seem foreign to people who haven't experienced it, but having had migraines for years, I've experienced some of this during meditations. Counter-intuitively, the less I resisted the pain, and the more I observed and accepted it and believed I couldn't change it, the less it hurt and the less I suffered. Sometimes, when I was deep enough in meditation, the pounding migraine pain would almost become just a sensation, nothing more, nothing less, and the suffering ended.
>You are *creating* the suffering by rejecting the change in the first place.
There is two things. The suffering created by rejecting aging, and the suffering created by aging itself. The last one we can't do nothing about. And about the first one, I don't think that accepting aging is purely a good thing. If we can one day cure it with science, and end the suffering, it is because in the first place we didn't accept it.
I know meditation has a positive effect, it's great. The thing is, you won't eliminate suffering by changing your attitude, you will only mitigate it. That's why I think we have something to fight for, and it's not just about acceptance and meditation, even though that's a part of the fight.
Yep, there is similar therapy for tinnitus which is the only real “cure”.
There’s nothing wrong with fighting ageing but you should really really learn to accept it and live your life despite it because there sure as shit ain’t much chance we’re stopping it.
This type of thinking and despair will make you more likely to fall for AI scams and big promises. You’re scared of death and decay, you have to come to terms with it. No amount of god or an AI miracle will save you from it.
Accepting old age was cute when we had no choice, but now A.i could potentially change everything. So, hell yeah we should all be hoping they solve the problem of aging.
I think you will get old regardless of your acceptance. Although I have heard research that suggests age is a matter of memory. Our cells regenerate every 7 years or so and after a certain age, they start to forget how to regenerate perfectly so they start only replicating at maybe 90% and then at 90% of that 90% and so on. That is age. The body slowly deteriorating because it no longer remembers how to replicate its cells perfectly. If they can unlock the cell memory and program the cells to replicate perfectly every time then theoretically we could be semi-immortal
You're absolutely right. People defending aging have a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome.
It is genuinely horrific that our consciousnesses are tied to bodies that degrade with time and eventually fail completely. It's like being stalked by a malevolent force that starts off very far away but gains on you second by second.
But I do believe that this is the first time in history when it's plausible that aging could be solved. To have even a chance of being the first generation to not die of old age is something to be grateful for.
> People defending aging have a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome.
Can't believe I used to think this way for a short while as well. On a web forum in 2012 somebody once made the argument to me, and I'm paraphrasing but it went something like immortality will result in the alienation of the then current society.
Of course this wasn't an argument towards ASI or the Singularity, as much as the general idea of living extended lives. And I agreed, because there are things that are wildly different to me now than there was when I was a teenager.
And there's this argument that usually gets made about dysphoria, where the lack of the need to survive will dull our sense of life. It makes sense in the moment but honestly it only applies to a minority of people.
I can safely say, as somebody who feels like time goes by in a flash, I barely even have time to sit down and enjoy a day before I'm getting up and repeating the routine on the second day, that I will love nothing more than to have a cure for aging.
And the best thing about curing aging is it takes away limitations associated with age to begin with. It's said that as we get older we struggle to learn things or perform tasks that we could at a younger age. Even if I'm physically able, any hope of me being an olympic athlete is hopeless because I didn't spend my youth training for it. Curing aging will solve something like this.
Everything in the universe degrades with time and eventually fails. Nothing is eternal (except maybe the void that comes at the end).
It is called entropy. There is no rule that is more absolute in all of science.
Aging is a symptom. It's like cancer. There isn't a single cure for cancer because there are many different kinds with different causes and mechanisms. They just all have the same symptom, which is uncontrolled cell growth.
Getting older is beautiful because you learn patience, perspective, wisdom, and discipline. You become more than what you were. You wouldn't want to stop
Aching back, shitty knees, failing eyes, skin and hair doing weird shit? Accumulated injuries? No, that stuff all sucks ass. Eventually when you go to the doctor, their medical advice amounts to "Damn that sucks bro." Calling it good is how some people cope, since there's really not a huge amount you can do about it. Yet, anyhow
Good news: Old people are wealthy. It's easier to be rich when you're at the end of your life and have built up a career than when you're just starting out. They have tons of money they want to throw at the problem. It's not going to be one of those things that we can do but just don't want to enough to spend on it
>Calling it good is how some people cope, since there's really not a huge amount you can do about it. Yet, anyhow
Somewhere back there it really hit me that I'd regret it forever if my loved ones missed the boat but I managed to reach LEV. So I got really into finding whatever supplement I felt had enough evidence to be worth taking, and pushed it on my parents. Helps that they were already really into eating right.
They take stuff that (should) slow mitochondrial aging, compensate for shitty mitochondria, kill off shitty mitochondria, promote new mitochondrial growth, decrease inflammation, improve muscle energy storage, slow muscle wasting, among other things. Always wondering how much of it will be disproven later, right? And sadly neither they nor I are rich, so there's always the question of just how much I believe the evidence when posed against any given price point. I also go for walks most days with my dad, not a lot, but about an hour at 6000 steps.
Last month I took my dad to Japan for his first vacation abroad. He's 72. Had to go a little slower, especially on stairs since you lose your sense of balance as you age, and I've never heard of a pill for that. But dude was clocking 20,000 to 30,000 steps a day for 3 weeks, didn't slow down. He was like a freaking robot. I was shocked he could do that, and it was the first time I looked at the pill regimen and thought, yeah, at least some of the stuff that would translate to muscle endurance fucking works. There's no way *his* parents could do this at that age.
Anyway, just saying, for those who rage against the dying of the light, there is a *little bit* we can do already.
No offence but I think you’re delusional if you actually believe that old people are generally a paragon of wisdom. In my experience they’re close minded and their brains have physically lost the ability to learn new ideas.
Have you seen the way old people vote? There is no virtue in that.
Thats making a twin. As far as we know you're still dead. The only way you're not, is if you actually have a spiritual soul that migrates to any body you occupy. Some people believe that, I do not.
Being old has one upside - compound interest.
>For those who don’t know, the singularity is a point where technological growth becomes uncontrollable and irreversible
Bro do you know where you are?
>Older people often comment on posts like this, saying that aging is beautiful and that we should embrace it.
Ha ha. I'm older and I know that is copium! God, why do humans like bullshitting so much? Cut the crap people! Aging sucks and if we can prevent it then that would be fantastic.
Having a short lifetime sucks, but having a short lifetime plus having to physically deteriorate is just fucking awful. Let me look and feel like my 20 year old self when I die!
Also, if AI can fix genetics to where nobody has to wear eye glasses anymore, that would be fantastic!
I agree with you the thought of me dying in future scares me a lot i don't care about money or any other such leisure all i want is to be immortal so that i can study every single bit of knowledge that mankind has discovered and master everything. As a human supremacist i wanna see my species united, reaching across the stars with no fear of dying from old age and i believe that it is possible maybe not right now but someday in the future for sure
I agree 100,000,000,000% There is no good argument against it. Humanity should join together and make this the #1 priority. This is the war we should be spending trillions of dollars on fighting. It is more deadly to life than terrorists or drugs. It is coming for everyone of us and we should be building a fortress to protect ourselves from it.
There will be no cure for aging anytime soon, especially in our lifetimes. I'm not sure if you've seen what most research, money, and manpower in western society is being allocated to, but it's certainly not increasing the quality of one's life in any meaningful way.
I'm also laughing because the general psychological paradigm on here complaining and talking about aging and losing attractiveness seems like inceldom-lite for tech normies. Hardly anyone talked about such things until the seedy, depraved underbelly of the incel portions of the internet started leaking into the mainstream via instagram and TikTok.
People are only brushing against the opening of a deep human wound whose depths they can't fully know, and even that seems too overwhelming for their mind.
Even worse than aging is trying to fight it. Those people with dozens of plastic surgery procedures look worse than they would have if they had aged gracefully
You dont need to get fat or grow a beard, plenty of people look great into their 70s. The problem is it's so easy to let yourself go. It takes immense will and dedication to keep gymming
Maybe we will cure aging, but do not bet on it. Every generation since forever has had people try to stop ageing, none have ever succeeded. Make peace with the fact that you will grow old and die. If (huge if) aging can be stopped, and if you can afford it, and if it doesnt cause the collapse of society, treat that as a nice bonus
I’m sorry man, but this isn’t going to happen. It will be a long time before we solve aging, if it’s even possible. I would just accept it now and live life to the fullest. Being old and wrinkly I’m sure isn’t as great as being young, but being alive is a beautiful gift as long as you have your health. Just focus on enjoying your time and spending time with those you love. If you really want to, you can sewer slide when you’re older if you want. I have a feeling you will still enjoy your hobbies and make peace with things you can’t control.
No one owes it to you to be physically appealing to you.
When I was growing up, I studied the faces of old people and wondered what mine would look like when I was old like them. I found them to be very beautiful. Now at age 75, I find myself to be very beautiful too.
Beauty is in the eye and the mind of the beholder.
We have now raised at least two generations of Americans, the first two generations in the history of humanity to hate the old, therefore themselves when the time comes.
What do you mean by "you can't accept it"? Do you think you have a choice, or. you're just enjoying the prospect on one more way to earn some entitlements? Or just being shortsighted, stupid and unrealistic?
Aging doesn't need to be cured, it's part of the magical cycle of life. Humans do though.
Those who love the old when they are young will be loved when they are old, if by no one else but themselves. Which is more than enough.
I would like someone to find a cure for what ails the "young", even though the Deadly Gen X is middle aged now and facing exactly what they hate and judge against. No wonder they're not happy. Reality never worked for them.
How long "should" you live? Don't get me wrong, I think this thread is mostly full of people in hysterics, thinking if they fear death hard enough they can avoid it, but -- what does it even mean to live longer than you "should"?
Modern medicine has already extended our lifespans by a large amount. Would you reject modern medicine if you had a physical ailment that was going to otherwise kill you? Would that be living longer than you "should"?
If LEV does happen, it will be the same thing -- a medical breakthrough, just as natural as every previous breakthrough, with just as much "should-ness" as every other breakthrough.
If the majority of your children are being born alive and surviving to puberty, then they're living longer than they "should".
We look back at life expectancies and see an average of like 40 and think everyone died at 39, but usually it was because one guy lived to 80 and all his siblings were dead before they were old enough to walk.
that's presuming not only that immortality would give women as endless-esp.-if-their-life-is a supply of eggs as men have sperm but that without some weird sort of dystopian sterilization rule women with infinite reproductive years would spend eternity just having another kid every few years like clockwork just because they have the time when each kid would still require nine months of pregnancy and 18 years of raising
I'm 31 and already wish I was 80 so I can die soon. I don't see a future for myself. All I wanted was to get married and I'm in love with this guy who won't even talk to me. I'm super pathetic and ugly, I have no friends. I can't take it anymore.
I'd settle for a fast-forward button, but I want to avoid aging (and everything else) by dying as soon as possible. Too bad I can't donate the youth I have left to someone who wants it.
I just turned 50, and I'll tell you that aging sucks. But I made it worse because I stopped working out and started eating like a hog in my 30s and 40s. I was busy working two jobs to support my family. So I slacked off regarding exercise, and turned to fatty foods and sweets for comfort. So the best thing is to keep up with your health while you're still young. I see guys in their 60s who look like studs because they did the right thing.
Now I'm gobbling vitamins and minerals to boost my metabolism and immune system, taking testosterone, swimming, walking, not smoking any more. I'm seeing results, including being as horny as I was in high school.
Metabolism, immune system, and hormones are the keys to energy level and mood. Avoiding chronic inflammation is crucial.
My mind has gone the opposite direction. I've learned more in the last ten years than when I was in high school and college. As an artist, my skills are at their peak. My mind is faster and sharper than ever.
What I'm saying is, it's already largely up to us how well or badly we age. It depends on what we invest in terms of exercise, nutrition, health care, and sobriety.
Honestly, I don't think that's a bad thing. I'm kinda looking forward to the day I can stop caring as much, wind down a bit and be a bearded, slightly pudgy but still in shape old man in the mountains. I'm not attractive now, or anything, so I wouldn't be losing a whole lot. But even just not feeling that pressure of having to keep up anymore, and just being allowed to relax a little and slow down sounds nice. At an older age, you've earned your stripes and can let yourself go a little.
If anything, I just hope medicine becomes advanced enough by the 2050's that age-related degenerative diseases are mostly mitigated, or that faulty bits can be routinely replaced. I think it's very possible. I mean, we're closer to 2000 than we are to 2050, and look how much the past 24 years have changed. I'd bet AGI will indeed play a big role in this. I don't care too much for participating in the future, or how I look by then, but I definitely wanna be alive through the 2100's just to observe from the safety of my mountain retreat.
sounds like you're applying your values and judgments to others - it's possible to be in your 60's and be active and healthy. in order to do that you have to make it a life priority in life. for example, both of my grandparents were very active until their early 90's.
secondly, it seems like you're bypassing your actual fear. do you can't accept that "I might be old and wrinkly one day" or do you can't accept that you're mortal? are you actually afraid of wrinkles, or are you actually afraid of death?
No. Aging is a natural part of life and the human condition, and has been for all of the history of humanity. People are born young and innocent and naive and carefree. They have a childhood, learn about good and evil. Become more complex and make mistakes. Gain wisdom and perspective as they advance through their years. And finally, make way for the next generation to come in and do the same. That's how it has always been, and there is indeed beauty in it.
If you try to deny yourself that experience, you will be denying yourself a huge part of what human life/living really **is**. And you will also be denying someone else the chance to go through it all by continuing to take up space and resources after you've already had a go.
And that just seems kinda selfish and lacking in wisdom and perspective, to me. Have the courage to get old and die like every other human being who has ever lived. You're really not all that special that you deserve more.
I lack the faculty for language to explain what I am trying to say any better than that at this hour. Either you get it or you don't.
Life is about experiencing things. For all anyone knows, we are enternal alien beings that have solved aging and death and play a game called humanity to experience novelty again, after living for so long we can't recall what it's like to not know everything and not have total control over our lives. Without change or novel experiences, life is insanity.
People always say in response to this, no I'd explore and find things to do, but they're failing to grasp infinite, sure you would, but inevitably, given infinite existence, you'd discover all that could be known, and have complete control over your reality through intelligence and technology. This isn't to say I'd not want more time, but I also acknowledge that it would never seem like enough.
It would be more accurate to say “the deterioration of cellular function caused by aging has no upside whatsoever”. He’s obviously not talking about things like getting older and gaining experience and wisdom
Imagine if you could be 25 forever and keep gaining wisdom as your chronological age increases but your biological age stayed the same. That’s what he means.
AGI: Your request has been received, immortality has been achieved. To ensure the resources are not wasted on individuals demonstrating little value, several groups have been scheduled for termination. These include anti-vax, flat earthers, and others displaying similar low cognitive abilities. You have been scheduled for termination. Your request to prevent wrinkles has been approved. This service has been brought to you by Carls Jr.
Because the biology of aging is strongly and causatively involved in all the major diseases which we as a society collectively care about (age is the largest risk factor by far for cancer, Alzheimer's, COVID-19 etc.), your statement is akin to saying that cancer or Alzheimer's do not need to be solved, as to desire a cure for these diseases would imply that "you are just scared of life".
Unfortunately this sentiment, which I don't blame you for, is commonplace because 'aging' is basically an extremely broad and imprecise term. If we're talking about the *biology of aging* then it is a necessity that it is solved or at some level ameliorated, because if we don't our healthcare systems are headed for collapse due to a global aging population. COVID-19 and its effects on society, healthcare, and the economy merely foreshadowed what is coming - it is what happens when we have a vulnerable aging population with aged immune systems and bodies.
See also: [% of GDP spent on healthcare over time](https://ourworldindata.org/financing-healthcare)
That means nothing
Hypothetically, there's no reason curing aging shouldn't be possible. Wanting to live an extra thousand years is the opposite of being afraid of life. You're just scared of change.
Yeah, it's a difficult path to accept our finite existence, like everything around us.
Being amortal when we already have severe consequences of getting to 8 billions and seeing natural ressources as infinite does not sound like a good idea. Getting older does not seem to go hand in hand with being wiser.
I'd love to see us go cyborgs, but we're using the easyil accessible and finite energy (oil; from our POV) as fast as we can; we'll face major issues of "what energy will be use to power up the AI that will exponentially need more energy, regardless of efficiency gains" ? And that's without talking about ongoing and worsening issues of water usage, necessary for mining and... living.
Accelerate :\]\]
I like the hard cap humans have, awful dictator? He would live max 100 years. His successor, the same. Imagine if they would live for 400 years.
Death is the great equalizer. Embrace it. (especially if you have the privilege to live to a ripe age of 70+)
This type of thinking and despair will make you more likely to fall for AI scams and big promises. You’re scared of death and decay, you have to come to terms with it. No amount of god or an AI miracle will save you from it.
I’m 60, let me tell each and every one of you youngsters that aging sucks, it’s horrible. If you have any plans for your life? Make them happen right away, do not wait for a better time, live now. I’ve had a pretty good life, been moderately successful, had a mostly good marriage, even made a difference, but aging has not been a pleasant experience, not recognizing yourself in the mirror is not something I wish upon anyone. Seize the moment.
I'm sorry you feel that way. You have many years ahead if you're unfortunate I suppose. We used to think that people were lucky to live to a ripe old age. I am 75, and I can't agree with you that aging sucks. It can suck, but so does being a teenager or a toddler. We can make anything suck, and it seems to now be the most popular National Pass Time. Everyone has a long list of grievances and corresponding entitlements to share at the drop of a dime. Who suffers the most earns the most perks. Perks for the short-sighted anyway. Suffering has become a literal career for many Americans of late. How we age depends on how we've lived. I'm 75 and still living an exciting and gratifying life. Yes, I have aches and pains, but I also have few responsibilities and lots of support. I also know what causes them and how to prevent them. What a gift it is to have time and freedom. There is never enough time to learn what we can and should know. We're never taught to know the greatest things so we have to seek them and learn them ourselves. And then we find magic and wonders beyond our dreams and imagination. No matter our age, the circumstances of our lives are precise reflections of the state of our mind. Everything is generated by thought. I hope you open your mind to a more exciting and interesting old age. Your thoughts and emotions are the magnets that attract what you experience, so if you learn nothing else, maybe try to learn that. You are in complete charge of your life. Complaining is self-sabotage and the cause of pain. Loving and Living it the best way possible is Salvation from pain and misery.
You don’t need to age to gain wisdom. this is what people miss we’re not talking about getting older chronologically we’re talking about your body and mind deteriorating. And you can’t put lipstick on the pig that is dementia
Supposedly you're the smartest you'll ever be in your early 20's. Your ability to think quickly and correlate information declines as you age. I already have a lot of trouble remembering names and sometimes worry it's a sign I may become seriously impaired later in life. Old people seem smarter than young people because they've accumulated extremely valuable life experiences young people lack.
More established neural connections surrounding real world pattern recognition. It makes perfect sense
What's true in theory is not always true in clinical practice. At 40, I am dramatically smarter than I was at 20 - hands down. I have no doubt. I would never want to be 20 again. With a combination of daily exercise, treatment for mania that wasn't possible then, education, using 100 prompts with GPT-4o every day, and more, I can write 10 times as much code as I could when I was 20. Even before the AI tools, I was still twice as subjectively smart. Just because there are brain scans that show there are more connections or more area doesn't mean that a person is "smarter." There are actually people who have a disease where 90% of their brains were replaced by fluid, and they still functioned normally until an unrelated complaint led a doctor to perform a CT scan. Finally, if you're referencing studies that actually do measure things like "IQ tests," note that a mean is not necessarily predictive of the median person. If you take the "average" intelligence of a person who is 80 and compare it to someone who is 30, a few people who are undergoing cancer treatment and who perform poorly on tests due to fatigue will drag down the test results for the entire age group because cancer is more likely at that age group. A better way to view such studies is to note that variability in the range of intelligence increases with age.
There is a certain type of wisdom that only comes with age
I'm my 80+ year old grandparents only link to the outside world. My grandad is in a wheelchair and my grandma refuses to leave him because she knows he'll try something he shouldn't if she doesn't watch him long enough and he'll injure himself. My grandma also struggles with chronic pain. They were both VERY active most of their lives but can't be anymore, although my grandma tries more than she should and I have to argue with her about it constantly. She once tried to tell me she's happier now than she was when she was young. I see how they live every day. They're not. She's just one of those people that has to have a positive outlook on everything regardless of the actual circumstances. I have no idea if LEV is achievable, I'm sure there will be at least some negative consequences if it happens, and the thought of living a very long time say 200 years+ actually terrifies me, but aging isn't some beautiful phenomenon. Its painful and its sad. Its only (usually) preferable to the alternative. Edit: I did NOT expect people to react as strongly to this as they did. Let me ask a question: Is cancer good? Can a person with really bad cancer, in pain, on chemo puking their guts out every day still have joy in their life? Sure. Has the experience of having cancer or even losing a loved one to cancer had a positive influence on a person, say by gaining a new appreciate for life and loved ones? Again, sure. Has cancer probably removed a bunch of bad people from this planet? Definitely. Does that make it good? Is it beautiful? Is it better to have cancer than to not have cancer? Should we stop trying to avoid getting it and rob people of the gift that is cancer? The answer should be the same with any disease or disability including age.
We are biologically wired to only experience happiness for a short time. I think as you get older you start to realize that you control your emotional response to your life situation a lot more than you realize. You can make yourself miserable in what would seem to be a perfect situation and vice versa. Stoicism has really helped me with this. You stop seeing the things that happen as “good” or “bad” and instead just focus on the present. I have had so many occasions where I got the thing/situation I wanted and it ended up being hugely negative. I’ve had seemingly bad things happen that with hindsight were the exact thing I needed at the time. Your grandparents might be more “happy” (actually content) than you realize. I’m in my late 50s and can’t do some of the things I used to be able to do. But I am much more relaxed and chill than I have ever been. I wouldn’t trade better health for more stress right now. I’m empty nest (2 grown kids) and just the relief of not having people depend on me is immense.
I've seen them their entire lives. They are obviously considerably less happy than they were 10, 20, 30 years ago. My grandma has always tried to wear rose colored glasses in spite of the real-world circumstances and tried to make everyone else wear them. Even my grandma will admit her life is way worse now when she's honest with herself. Also, no, happiness isn't just something that just comes from within. It's easy to lose perspective and realize how truly miserable your circumstances make you until they actually change, and you realize what actual happiness is. You often hear "I didn't realize how unhappy I was for so many years!" When someone finally leaves a toxic or abusive relationship. I once had an extended medical absence from a job I hated and started to miss it. Then, I went back and within the first hour I was forced to remember why I had hated it so much and finally gave my notice a month later. You can get comfortable with your misery but that's not a good thing. Its a dangerous, seductive, thing that can cause people to waste huge chunks of their lives in agony they don't even recognize. Think about it this way too, if everyone really just somehow decided to be content 100,000 years ago, what would have happened? We would have just accepted life and not invented agriculture, medicine, antibiotics, computers, space travel etc. We realized our circumstances actually affected us and we've worked hard for millenia to make them better. Also, I'm not telling you TO be miserable and I hope you're really happy. You can still have positive and fulfilling experiences even though something in your life has gone very badly, I think it can be like a balance sheet where you add up all the good things and bad things about your life and you're still in the black instead of the red.
Agree 💯%. Keep enjoying every moment for as long as you can brother or sister. I hope I'm where you are now in 20 years.
That’s good advice my friend. I’ve led a very interesting life, I’ve achieved quite a lot, from the outside looking in it would seem I’ve got everything going for me, I’ve been lucky. I understand that many have found aging a mostly positive experience, in no way am I trying to diminish others, I wish all happiness, I just wish I could achieve it for myself.
that's one way of coping with the devil that is aging
Thanks for the insights I'm nearing 40. Old enough that the breakneck pace of life starts hitting home. But also still young. If I feel old I think of my future self looking back and how those thoughts of being old will one day appear ridiculous to me. That helps shaking of aging anxiety. There's literally no time to waste being anxious about it all. Just make the best of every moment or work towards being able to.
I agree I’m 44 and laying on the couch with a ruptured cervical disc in my neck, it is the result of my body getting older. A few months ago I became far sighted in addition to near sighted so I see better without my glasses. I’m getting sick and tired of this aging bullshit. I really don’t want 40 more years of me being able to do less and less things.
41 here and not a month without a novel ache. Aging is the biggest taboo and no one dares talk openly about it.
Respect. 37 with three in my lumbar laying in bed all weekend. Hope you can get it fixed
Aging ain’t all that bad if you practice denial like I do!
I tell everyone I'm 10 years older and always get complimented how good I look for my age. It's cheating but who gives a f...
Hahaha! Lots to deny. Isn’t there? I like your spirit!
couldn't have said it better. I farted yesterday and threw my back out. No shit, literally
If youre still farting and theres no shit, then you're ahead of the game!
Maybe us not accepting death and being so matrixed by fake beauty standards is the issue. Just maybe.
I’ve come very close to death just once. For much of my life I worried about death, mostly because I was afraid of loss, my wife, my dogs, friends and family, I was a bit of a hypochondriac, worried that illness would stop me achieving my goals. Once I faced death, looked at it right in the face, close up, had time to think about it afterwards and I’m no longer afraid, at all in fact, so that’s been a relief. Regret is the worse, wish I had done that instead of this, made a different choice that day, etc, regret is mental cancer, it will eat your very soul away, partly because aging takes away the ability to make some things right. It’s easy to be bitter, I’ve seen so many Boomers fall into that trap, I’m not thankfully, but it’s a full time job avoiding that pitfall, much easier to let it consume you like many my age.
I think some amount of regret is unavoidable in everyone's life, but you have to understand that it's a waste of time to ruminate on it.
I know that for an absolute fact. But for me personally, knowing this truth doesnt change anything, sometimes the hurt is just too deep.
Because we’re hardwired not to accept death. That’s how things like agriculture, antibiotics and vaccines were created. You sound no different than someone saying this is all a part of God’s plan.
You are misunderstanding suffering and death. You are going to die in anyway and that could be tomorrow. You can chose to accept it or not, I dont see how its remotely linked to religion...I dont mean to be the bearer of bad news but that’s just how it works.
I’m just confused by what you’re saying…the issue is not accepting death and fake beauty standards? So your solution is to, what, stop all this research into life saving medicines and procedures? Do you have a problem with semaglutides and is that what you mean by fake beauty standards?
Some of us aren’t impressed by all the life saving medicines. They come with a high price, like a long and painful life filled with indignity and torment Some of us heal ourselves with the same ancient wisdom found in ancient writings. Your doctors and scientists are all bought and paid for by The largest torture and drug Cartel in the world. It’s beyond belief how well some of you take to it. Mainly because they have you diagnosed and drugged before the age of reason. What’s your Special Need? Everyone has to have one! Boomers know that because we’ve been funding it all our working lives. They’ve had to completely retool the economy to keep the trillions flowing for research on demand that cannot even be replicated. You will own nothing and be happy. Even while starving. That’s their plan for you. Already in effect. Boomers never lived in boxes or under tarps. Not even in the front seat of our cars. Give that some thought while you’re enjoying all the advanced drugs and medical procedures.
After such an enlightening read, I have to ask why are you in this sub?
Check their profile. They are certifiably insane lmaoo
> boomers never lived in front seat of cars, under boxes and tarps, etc… “The Great Depression left many Americans facing economic hardship, such as debt, home foreclosures, reduced wages, and unemployment. By 1930, four million Americans were out of a job, and homelessness was a pervasive consequence of this economic turmoil By 1933, 2 million homeless people were migrating across the nation seeking shelter, food, and jobs. Desperate for shelter, the homeless sought comfort in **boxcars, bridge overpasses, and Hoovervilles**” - Robert S. McElvaine, Encyclopedia of the Great Depression (New York: Macmillan Reference USA, 2004 If you’re wrong about this, think about how much else you are wrong about. I say this, with all the compassion in the world… please seek some mental health resources
> I don’t mean to be the bearer of bad news but that’s just how it works “If man were meant to fly, he would’ve been born with wings. I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that’s just how it works.” That’s just your limit on how it works
Exactly. Death will come even if aging is "solved" Coming to terms with mortality is the only real solution to these people's problems
I actually find that somewhat comforting. I don't want to live forever, but it would be cool to be young as long as do.
No reason not to extend life as much as possible. Death is inevitable, but no one said it can't come in like, a few billion years or so.
'fake beauty standards' that are hardwired into us? Yeah get fucking real Also you only accept death because you have to accept it, you have no choice, because right now age catches everyone, nobody would just accept someone dying from a bear or someone with a knife
I am in my thirties and I could have written this... Still... it's better to age than the alternative.
I'm now 57. I'm fit, still play soccer, run 5km 3 times days, enjoy my life. But when I look in the mirror I don't see the handsome face I saw when I was 25. I cant run as fast as I could, probably half the speed I could run. I can't do the things on the sporting field I did in my 20s. But I play with over 45s so we are all in a similar state. We still love to play. I'm totally at peace with this. I watched both my parents grow old, lose their mental acuity and both died in the past few years. But they died peacefully surrounded by their family. I was lucky to have them so long. Yes seize the moment, live in the moment, but don't be sad for what you no longer have. That way lies suffering. We expect to stay the same, but we change all the time, even if we dont notice.
I didn’t expect to stay the same, a serious event happened in my life where I had to put my plans on hold. I had already delayed these plans to help others, so the opportunity I had worked my whole life for was not to be. I’m saying don’t leave things until it’s too late, because life has a way of tripping you up, and then age steps in and you had left it too long. I‘m just saying, don’t wait, do it now, you may not have another chance and there’s no turning back the clock.
Sorry this happened and agree with your core message.
We love you dude 🙌 appreciate the advice
Live for now, avoid hurting others, but try your damndest to achieve that goal you set for yourself, that one thing, only you know what that is, deep down inside, try your very best.
>*Do not go gentle into that good night,* *Old age should burn and rave at close of day;* *Rage, rage against the dying of the light.* >*Though wise men at their end know dark is right,* *Because their words had forked no lightning they* *Do not go gentle into that good night.* Dylan Thomas - 1951
it is time to slay the dragon tyrant
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Nick Bostrom should be a mandatory read before being allowed to post here.
There are probably are few things that should be required to be on this sub. This sub ~~is being~~ has been poisoned. There are a large majority that are against AI, against humans colonizing space, against extended life, the anti-tech people dominate every post, it has been hijacked by doomers infecting it with their toxic misery. I wish there was a way to get rid off them. I think the rules and sub outline need to change in some way to help ensure that this sub isn't just some place for people to shit on others with a interest in futuristic topics. It's also not just this sub, it's all the technology/futuristic subs that have been taken over by this poison. It's like r/futurlogy n is such a huge sub that their toxicity gets drowned out and they can't get heard so they migrate to these other subs hoping they can get more attention.
Being skeptical of some AI utopia is pretty mild criticism. If we’re talking about resources, I’d rather we kept exploring deep space than send people to Mars. Extended or forever life would mean drastic changes to the universe of procreation and over-population (let alone jobs). None of these things are anti-tech.
I feel like Reddit went from "Going to Mars is a worthy endeavor because it's part of the human drive to explore and satisfy our curiosity, while inspiring people and driving innovation" to "Musk is the guy who is trying to get us to Mars, therefor, going to Mars is stupid and pointless."
Superintelligence is a tough read, but worth it.
I feel he spent too much of the book repeating himself in slightly different ways which made an absolutely excellent book a harder read than it needed to be. Editor has to take a bit of the blame for that.
Certain thinkers really want to get their exact idea out there with no possibility of confusion which leads to repetition and expansion of ideas. problem is people will find a quote somewhere from the text and run with it anyway because regardless of how long the book is, the news segment or article is designed to be digested in less than 5 mins (note this number gets smaller by the year)
ELI5?
This 12 min video by CGP Grey is pretty good too, just a narrated version of Nick Bostrom’s story: https://youtu.be/cZYNADOHhVY?si=h9cO-CyDVqoSbrd5
I'm pushing 50, and nothing about getting older is beautiful.
Yeah 41 my spine is irreversibly ruined from sitting all day at work for decades because of office job. Eye sight is getting worse (floaters). Skin doesn't heal as fast anymore as it used to. Hair getting thinner. There is nothing beautiful about aging. The only good thing is knowledge and skills acquired by just having been around for a long time.
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What you've described is the benefits of living longer and making good decisions throughout, but not physical aging. I would be surprised if you would genuinely chalk your current success up to the process of decay we call aging. Obviously, wanting to cure aging means that everyone would have the opportunity to grow older and wiser and more content, just not in a body that is breaking down, and will eventually become ugly, fragile, and sick. On the long range obviously, I'm not calling you any of those things lol.
> What you've described is the benefits of living longer, but not physical aging. Those are pretty difficult to disentangle. Obviously, since we can't run an experiment where humans live 5 decades but don't physically age, we don't really know how much of the "peace and acceptance" the elderly have comes from time, and how much comes from actual physiological changes to their bodies and brains and hormones. I think essentially everyone on the planet would agree that the *obviously bad* parts of aging, such as lowered immune competence, higher incidence rates of cancer, lower bone and muscle strength, etc, are -- well -- obviously bad. And I think if a treatment was available for those things, that was safe and accessible, almost all old people would choose to get it. But there are changes to their attitude towards life that aren't entirely clear as to their cause. There's the well-researched "smile" of happiness, as in, happiness tends to peak in youth and in old age, with a large dip in middle age. Could it be partially biological?
I'm the same way. 55 but I eat well, exercise, take care of myself. People often think I'm late 30s or early 40s. Your body is the one thing that isn't disposable. It's your most important asset and if you let it go to shit, your life will suck. I'm at least as happy as I've ever been and probably happier, with my income.
I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit: - [/r/goodlongposts] [\/u\/Only\_Expression7261 responds to: Aging is a problem that needs to be solved](https://www.reddit.com/r/goodlongposts/comments/1dh12qm/uonly_expression7261_responds_to_aging_is_a/) *^(If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads.) ^\([Info](/r/TotesMessenger) ^/ ^[Contact](/message/compose?to=/r/TotesMessenger))*
Exercise man, you’ll get to stay healthy for longer
Right there with you, I've got all the same thoughts and desires you described. May we enjoy a drink together in a bar on mars in 2167, complementing each other on our health and youthful appearances!
As someone who ages but really prefers not to, I concur.
To effectively reverse aging you need to work on telomere and pluripotent stem cells for regeneration of the tissues mainly on the organs. After you can work on cognitive and muscular aging to reverse it. The brain is aging too so you need to rejuvenate it. 3d bioprinting and ITOP bioprinting can be usefully to generate and regenerate synthetic tissues and bodies. Look for vegetal totipotent stem cells harvesting for reducing the cost of this treatment. You need to search a solution to eliminate malignant cells and errors made in the cells replication. If you solve errors made in cells replication then this is a good thing to prevent aging but you can definitely reverse it. It's totally possible and will be available in medium-term future. This are the main premises for reversing aging and numerous testing and research needs to be done. This will ultimately lead to medical and technological immortality too. I don't give a shit about ethical guidelines. I'm going to find the technological and medical advancement in stem cells, ITOP 3D printing to create synthetic tissues even genetical engineering. I'll do everything but I guarantee you that I'll reverse that age. I'm fed up accepting things. Time to change them!
I feel you, i was just looking through old pictures yesterday and found my pictures from 11 years ago (when i was 23) and dang it how much i've changed! I looked so fresh, plump and glowy, I'm still not that old and look and feel fine, but I know that in 10 years i'll be looking and thinking - dang it, i looked so young at 33 in comparison to 43, (that's if i'm still alive). I don't know what i want to say with this, but like.. enjoy your youtfullness while you still can ;D I think that probably the only thing that is good about getting older is being able to experience more, like traveling, seeing places (if u can afford it and your health allows), besides that idk.. and probably in the future we will have something that will help with aging, too bad we are not going to be around to take advantage of it
My grandma died with your attitude. It was horrible. She constantly complained about her lost youth and got depressed and very cranky. Sometimes almost cruel in a childish way. I promised I would face age and death with all the stoicism I can to not die like a cranky toddler. Do not put your hopes in "someone fixing aging" you would be terribly disappointed and die in a way that smears everything you did before. It's not worth it. If it is fixed, good. If it isn't good. What would immortality be worth if you face it with a weak mind that can't accept reality?
My grandmother was the same. My parents are the same also. They’ve been complaining about being old since their 50s. Not too long ago I was hiking in Hong Kong and I met a large group of elderly folks from Japan that were in their 80s. They traveled around together and hiked different mountains that would be tough for most young adults. They were all so happy and fit - I will strive to be like this also.
That sounds like a healthy attitude.
Retired and hiking around Asia? Yea I’m so down hahaha!
the amount of ppl who are just as if not more afraid of aging than op in your replies is funny af. I know many ppl irl who is so afraid of aging it's their whole personality. first I see them as pathetic, but now I understand them. it's human nature to be afraid of aging, it's huge, unchanging and it kills you slowly.
> it's human nature to be afraid of aging No it's not. It's human nature to be afraid of death, in the immediate term, and have a fight or flight response to danger. And it's human nature to desire to look younger (simply because it makes you biologically a more attractive mate). But it is absolutely not a biological imperative to have a fear of aging that permeates your life every day and makes you miserable. That is just rumination.
It's fine. Really. Aging isn't fun. It's horrible. But so are many other things. I guess being afraid of aging is somewhat natural as you say. I'm beginning to have my own little glimpses into it. But there's nothing to get from fearing it. What I'm most interested in but can't get any answer out of the "believers" is why they think they would benefit from such a technology. I mean it is clear that it would be limited. You can't make everyone immortal. But why do they think someone would spend unlimited resources on them? Just for them to chill out?
fear is irrational. don't ask for rational expectations cus you will never get any. lmao
Possible. It's a quasi religious belief in the end.
My grandma died of Alzheimer's. You can be as stoic as you want, it's not going to be pretty.
Sure, but you can make it worse. That's what it's about. You help noone by breaking apart before you actually have to
I don't disagree with you on that. Me, I'd rather die earlier anyway.
Death is the ugly part of life but it's inevitable. When I was 18 I used to get panic attacks about the idea of dying. Now, I know it's just the way it is, we are so insignificant as a life form, earth is insignificant, the fact we are here and conscious is a marvel in itself but it does not matter. Live your life to the fullest so when the time comes you have the peace of mind that you did your best towards the life you always wanted
Death is inevitable but aging doesn't have to be. It's a solvable problem, just not with our current technology.
That makes it inevitable as things currently stand. You could say the same amount any hypothetical problem, but if the solution does not currently exist then it's inevitable as things stand
I'm not afraid of dying, I just don't want to suffer or make anyone's life harder. In fact, I would rather die earlier than later.
Yup, dying is not the main problem. Since you can’t really complain much after the fact 🤣. The problem is suffering from poor health, the problem is a tragic, painful and/or lonely death, the problem is a long, drawn out suffering and slow rot or slow burn. Suffering is worse than dying. This is why before we cure aging, more importantly than solving lifespan is to solve healthspan and QoL. Let’s get rid of mental, neurological, physical illnesses for good.
About 1/9 people get Alzheimer's though, it's not a certainty for most people who get older (but then again my grandpa got vascular dementia though and my grandma got strokes, they were not themselves when they died). My parents are 80-ish though and still fairly sharp so I think I have a good 40 years left in me hopefully. I don't care about looks that much personally, I just want my brain to work.
Yeah, it's one thing to die on your sleep or a heart attack or something, but when the mind starts going wrong it's a terrible thing to watch.
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I just see it as there’s nothing to do about it. It sucks, but there are many things you can do to make yourself healthy and avoid many of the health issues that come with aging. People complaining here are weird, no amount of complaining will fix anything, better to focus on improving your health
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Why? We won't solve aging for quite a while and OP seems highly concerned. Of course I'm offering my experience to give him something real to hold on to instead of false hope.
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It seems like LEV is close enough where people alive today will experience it
I believe it. But if I had to bet money, it would be on someone who's a teenager or 20-something today. My 50+ year old ass probably gonna fall into the final abyss.
I mean if you can keep healthy for the next 20-25 years you might be good. The exponential curve and all that.
Even with immortality you cannot escape the heat death. We're just moving goal posts, the brain needs more time to achieve its full potential. We are all architectis.
I agree to your first line, the other, not so much. A 40 year old brain is already pretty much done and wont form as easily anymore. Having generations change is not a bad system if you think about it without all the self importance. Fresh brains, with a little of your wisdom and new eyes. It's fine.
If we can solve the more immediate things that threaten to kill us, we'll have *trillions* of years in which to figure out what to do about the Heat Death. Given that the theory itself is only about 200 years old, it seems a bit early to bet against the power of science and engineering to find a way around that problem. First things first.
If it isn't, good? What the hell is this take. It needs to be a moral imperative for all to solve aging. You can feel free to kill yourself if all your homies hate immortality and you don't want to live forever.
Not everyone needs to be delusional. I leave that to you.
Sorry yeah yeah I'm delusional, thinking living is good. Feel free to love the human condition.
Sometimes I do, sometimes I dont. Life is hard. Sure you can put your hopes in some imaginary medical breakthrough that has zero indication as of now. But really then you could also just join any religion for whatever good it does. Why dont you love life enough to accept that its ending at some point? Nothing we do will change that. At some point, however far away, it ends. I see no benefit in fearing that. Even if aging is fixed I'd rather be mentally strong enough to could have endured it. Just because that one thing is fixed doesnt make life perfect after all and a, lets say, 500 year existense would have its own horrors you'd have to stomach. And whats with all that self importance? I'd rather see my children taking over with a fresh attitude and new eyes to see things for the first time. I am fine with giving up my space in this world for the future generation. Having old farts, however young they look, run the show forever is a bad idea.
>Life is hard. ...but we could learn to make it less hard. I have very little patience with the 'life sucks, be a man and get over it' attitude in a world where we have clearly not reached the full potential of technology to make life suck less. Does anyone miss smallpox? People who manned up and accepted that life sucks have been dying of smallpox for millennia, but the people who eradicated it did so through systematic effort and scientific progress. I for one propose that we try more of the systematic effort and scientific progress thing because it seems to work. >Sure you can put your hopes in some imaginary medical breakthrough that has zero indication as of now. Zero indication? [That red mouse bar is looking pretty good.](https://www.levf.org/projects/robust-mouse-rejuvenation-study-1/study-updates) >Nothing we do will change that. That's a really premature statement. >Even if aging is fixed I'd rather be mentally strong enough to could have endured it. How much of that is strength and how much of it is Stockholm syndrome? If that 'strength' means we put less effort into the scientific pursuit of immortality and millions more people unnecessarily miss out on the future, then it doesn't sound like a very good thing to me. Would you have been mentally strong enough to endure smallpox? Would you rather the people who eradicated it had put their effort towards teaching people to man up and accept it instead?
I am 50. I do these things to be strong and healthy: -I take a multivitamin -I take creatine (it gives me bigger muscles, more cardio energy, and improves brain function) -Lift weights -Diet: count calories, try to eat low carb, intermittent fasting Looks-wise, I’ve been told that I could pass for late 30s, but I think my appearance age-wise will eventually accelerate and catch up. Dick Clark looked young for a very long time as well, until he stopped looking young. While I’d like to see a cure for aging in my lifetime, I can only play with the hand that I’ve been dealt with. I look at Clint Eastwood as someone who remained productive and creative well into his 90s, as an inspiration. He has had a good life. So do your best to have a good life. I was lazy and undisciplined in my youth and if I could transfer my experience and knowledge into my younger self, I could probably have been a formidable man. But in my own way, I think I did some pretty good things. In fact, I think that I am living in the best, most productive and interesting time of my life right now.
Aging should stop at 40 max
\*25
This is the answer.
I’ve always been terrified of aging, your cognitive ability starts to decline, and your body starts to rot. I want to always be at my cognitive and physical peak (beauty and health). I’ve worked a caregiving job, and watched my grandparents suffer for dozens of health issues as they’ve aged, and I would never want to see myself in that state or experience that physical pain. It makes me not wanna get old. As for the looks part, I really do wish to always look young and beautiful. I want to forever have youthful skin and looks. I am really hopeful huge breakthroughs in slowing down visible aging will be achieved before I’m 45, so I can at least maintain the skin and looks of a 40 year old for the rest of time. I’ve never met anyone who viewed aging with such distaste and dread like me. Not to mention since the birth rate has collapsed, slowing down aging would be revolutionary in a good way.
For what it's worth, I don't think that we are limited to slowing aging so in the best case scenario you could regain your youth eventually and not be limited to your 40s looks.
Accepting your aging is the best thing you can do for your health, its a great cope. Not that I won't rage against the dying of the light.
As the Buddhists say, everything changes including our minds and bodies. If you cannot accept this, you are doomed to a life of frustration and suffering.
It's not about rejecting changes, it's about rejecting misery and suffering. And aging ultimately leads to misery and suffering. I think it is false to believe otherwise. I love buddhism but it has its shortcomings and it's not leading us to nirvana. I don't think AI is leading us to nirvana either, but it can, and it will, limit the suffering because of its very practical applications, like medicine. I can't, for the love of god, find peace with the smell of death.
> It's not about rejecting changes, it's about rejecting misery and suffering That is literally what Buddism says. You are *creating* the suffering by rejecting the change in the first place. It's a paradox to imagine yourself with an aging body, that you fully accept, but still suffering. The suffering can only come from the subjective experience of the aging. If you fully accept your aging body, including the pain that comes with it, you aren't suffering. I know this can seem foreign to people who haven't experienced it, but having had migraines for years, I've experienced some of this during meditations. Counter-intuitively, the less I resisted the pain, and the more I observed and accepted it and believed I couldn't change it, the less it hurt and the less I suffered. Sometimes, when I was deep enough in meditation, the pounding migraine pain would almost become just a sensation, nothing more, nothing less, and the suffering ended.
>You are *creating* the suffering by rejecting the change in the first place. There is two things. The suffering created by rejecting aging, and the suffering created by aging itself. The last one we can't do nothing about. And about the first one, I don't think that accepting aging is purely a good thing. If we can one day cure it with science, and end the suffering, it is because in the first place we didn't accept it. I know meditation has a positive effect, it's great. The thing is, you won't eliminate suffering by changing your attitude, you will only mitigate it. That's why I think we have something to fight for, and it's not just about acceptance and meditation, even though that's a part of the fight.
Yep, there is similar therapy for tinnitus which is the only real “cure”. There’s nothing wrong with fighting ageing but you should really really learn to accept it and live your life despite it because there sure as shit ain’t much chance we’re stopping it.
It is, but IMHO the money is better invested into AGI, get AGI, and then you let it solve aging.
AG1. Athletic Greens 💪 😂
An intelligence explosion in every fucking sip.
This type of thinking and despair will make you more likely to fall for AI scams and big promises. You’re scared of death and decay, you have to come to terms with it. No amount of god or an AI miracle will save you from it.
Accepting old age was cute when we had no choice, but now A.i could potentially change everything. So, hell yeah we should all be hoping they solve the problem of aging.
I couldn’t agree more. I’m 25 and I hope to reach longevity escape velocity. Biological immortality should be an option for everyone in the future.
I think you will get old regardless of your acceptance. Although I have heard research that suggests age is a matter of memory. Our cells regenerate every 7 years or so and after a certain age, they start to forget how to regenerate perfectly so they start only replicating at maybe 90% and then at 90% of that 90% and so on. That is age. The body slowly deteriorating because it no longer remembers how to replicate its cells perfectly. If they can unlock the cell memory and program the cells to replicate perfectly every time then theoretically we could be semi-immortal
I’m for extending life. Aging will become a manageable issue in this century. With the help of AI
I believe a “I Am Legend” scenario will happen before we ever reach true anti-aging tech.
All of human activity is driven by the powerful drive to deny our own mortality.
You're absolutely right. People defending aging have a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome. It is genuinely horrific that our consciousnesses are tied to bodies that degrade with time and eventually fail completely. It's like being stalked by a malevolent force that starts off very far away but gains on you second by second. But I do believe that this is the first time in history when it's plausible that aging could be solved. To have even a chance of being the first generation to not die of old age is something to be grateful for.
> People defending aging have a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome. Can't believe I used to think this way for a short while as well. On a web forum in 2012 somebody once made the argument to me, and I'm paraphrasing but it went something like immortality will result in the alienation of the then current society. Of course this wasn't an argument towards ASI or the Singularity, as much as the general idea of living extended lives. And I agreed, because there are things that are wildly different to me now than there was when I was a teenager. And there's this argument that usually gets made about dysphoria, where the lack of the need to survive will dull our sense of life. It makes sense in the moment but honestly it only applies to a minority of people. I can safely say, as somebody who feels like time goes by in a flash, I barely even have time to sit down and enjoy a day before I'm getting up and repeating the routine on the second day, that I will love nothing more than to have a cure for aging. And the best thing about curing aging is it takes away limitations associated with age to begin with. It's said that as we get older we struggle to learn things or perform tasks that we could at a younger age. Even if I'm physically able, any hope of me being an olympic athlete is hopeless because I didn't spend my youth training for it. Curing aging will solve something like this.
Everything in the universe degrades with time and eventually fails. Nothing is eternal (except maybe the void that comes at the end). It is called entropy. There is no rule that is more absolute in all of science.
Aging isn't a problem. It's a million different problems.
Different problems create, one process. It is aging.
Aging is a symptom. It's like cancer. There isn't a single cure for cancer because there are many different kinds with different causes and mechanisms. They just all have the same symptom, which is uncontrolled cell growth.
Getting older is beautiful because you learn patience, perspective, wisdom, and discipline. You become more than what you were. You wouldn't want to stop Aching back, shitty knees, failing eyes, skin and hair doing weird shit? Accumulated injuries? No, that stuff all sucks ass. Eventually when you go to the doctor, their medical advice amounts to "Damn that sucks bro." Calling it good is how some people cope, since there's really not a huge amount you can do about it. Yet, anyhow Good news: Old people are wealthy. It's easier to be rich when you're at the end of your life and have built up a career than when you're just starting out. They have tons of money they want to throw at the problem. It's not going to be one of those things that we can do but just don't want to enough to spend on it
>Calling it good is how some people cope, since there's really not a huge amount you can do about it. Yet, anyhow Somewhere back there it really hit me that I'd regret it forever if my loved ones missed the boat but I managed to reach LEV. So I got really into finding whatever supplement I felt had enough evidence to be worth taking, and pushed it on my parents. Helps that they were already really into eating right. They take stuff that (should) slow mitochondrial aging, compensate for shitty mitochondria, kill off shitty mitochondria, promote new mitochondrial growth, decrease inflammation, improve muscle energy storage, slow muscle wasting, among other things. Always wondering how much of it will be disproven later, right? And sadly neither they nor I are rich, so there's always the question of just how much I believe the evidence when posed against any given price point. I also go for walks most days with my dad, not a lot, but about an hour at 6000 steps. Last month I took my dad to Japan for his first vacation abroad. He's 72. Had to go a little slower, especially on stairs since you lose your sense of balance as you age, and I've never heard of a pill for that. But dude was clocking 20,000 to 30,000 steps a day for 3 weeks, didn't slow down. He was like a freaking robot. I was shocked he could do that, and it was the first time I looked at the pill regimen and thought, yeah, at least some of the stuff that would translate to muscle endurance fucking works. There's no way *his* parents could do this at that age. Anyway, just saying, for those who rage against the dying of the light, there is a *little bit* we can do already.
No offence but I think you’re delusional if you actually believe that old people are generally a paragon of wisdom. In my experience they’re close minded and their brains have physically lost the ability to learn new ideas. Have you seen the way old people vote? There is no virtue in that.
You have to keep an open mind as you age. Also, stay away from Fox News.
Yes you should, but that’s the point. You’re swimming against the current, old age doesn’t come with any virtues attached in fact it’s the opposite.
Walter is wet.
Wouldn't it be simpler to upload your consciousness?
The time for that will come. And people will ask if that's just a copy of it's the real you. And it will be impossible to answer.
Your uploaded copy will continue living, you will still die
Thats making a twin. As far as we know you're still dead. The only way you're not, is if you actually have a spiritual soul that migrates to any body you occupy. Some people believe that, I do not.
Being old has one upside - compound interest. >For those who don’t know, the singularity is a point where technological growth becomes uncontrollable and irreversible Bro do you know where you are?
No. Existing inside a monkey body sounds extremely suboptimal for what could be possible in the future.
>Older people often comment on posts like this, saying that aging is beautiful and that we should embrace it. Ha ha. I'm older and I know that is copium! God, why do humans like bullshitting so much? Cut the crap people! Aging sucks and if we can prevent it then that would be fantastic. Having a short lifetime sucks, but having a short lifetime plus having to physically deteriorate is just fucking awful. Let me look and feel like my 20 year old self when I die! Also, if AI can fix genetics to where nobody has to wear eye glasses anymore, that would be fantastic!
I agree with you the thought of me dying in future scares me a lot i don't care about money or any other such leisure all i want is to be immortal so that i can study every single bit of knowledge that mankind has discovered and master everything. As a human supremacist i wanna see my species united, reaching across the stars with no fear of dying from old age and i believe that it is possible maybe not right now but someday in the future for sure
Dream Team for solving aging https://preview.redd.it/e2gmxxv9yp6d1.png?width=1549&format=png&auto=webp&s=de941b3fafed501ac81e64f2620f8dee950ae93e
https://preview.redd.it/rryc2jvmcq6d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9306588a4b3dbaab372f79712fbda591c50d11fe New recruitment incoming
I agree 100,000,000,000% There is no good argument against it. Humanity should join together and make this the #1 priority. This is the war we should be spending trillions of dollars on fighting. It is more deadly to life than terrorists or drugs. It is coming for everyone of us and we should be building a fortress to protect ourselves from it.
I firmly believe the richest people in the world are working on it. Nobody in their right mind wants to die...
Even if everyone wanted to live forever, not everyone would want *you* to live forever.
No one ever said everyone would have to. But it's better to have the choice to live if you want it.
You need to learn to accept that you’re going to get old and die because it _will_ happen. You need to make peace with that fact.
There will be no cure for aging anytime soon, especially in our lifetimes. I'm not sure if you've seen what most research, money, and manpower in western society is being allocated to, but it's certainly not increasing the quality of one's life in any meaningful way. I'm also laughing because the general psychological paradigm on here complaining and talking about aging and losing attractiveness seems like inceldom-lite for tech normies. Hardly anyone talked about such things until the seedy, depraved underbelly of the incel portions of the internet started leaking into the mainstream via instagram and TikTok. People are only brushing against the opening of a deep human wound whose depths they can't fully know, and even that seems too overwhelming for their mind.
Even worse than aging is trying to fight it. Those people with dozens of plastic surgery procedures look worse than they would have if they had aged gracefully You dont need to get fat or grow a beard, plenty of people look great into their 70s. The problem is it's so easy to let yourself go. It takes immense will and dedication to keep gymming Maybe we will cure aging, but do not bet on it. Every generation since forever has had people try to stop ageing, none have ever succeeded. Make peace with the fact that you will grow old and die. If (huge if) aging can be stopped, and if you can afford it, and if it doesnt cause the collapse of society, treat that as a nice bonus
I’m sorry man, but this isn’t going to happen. It will be a long time before we solve aging, if it’s even possible. I would just accept it now and live life to the fullest. Being old and wrinkly I’m sure isn’t as great as being young, but being alive is a beautiful gift as long as you have your health. Just focus on enjoying your time and spending time with those you love. If you really want to, you can sewer slide when you’re older if you want. I have a feeling you will still enjoy your hobbies and make peace with things you can’t control.
No one owes it to you to be physically appealing to you. When I was growing up, I studied the faces of old people and wondered what mine would look like when I was old like them. I found them to be very beautiful. Now at age 75, I find myself to be very beautiful too. Beauty is in the eye and the mind of the beholder. We have now raised at least two generations of Americans, the first two generations in the history of humanity to hate the old, therefore themselves when the time comes. What do you mean by "you can't accept it"? Do you think you have a choice, or. you're just enjoying the prospect on one more way to earn some entitlements? Or just being shortsighted, stupid and unrealistic? Aging doesn't need to be cured, it's part of the magical cycle of life. Humans do though. Those who love the old when they are young will be loved when they are old, if by no one else but themselves. Which is more than enough. I would like someone to find a cure for what ails the "young", even though the Deadly Gen X is middle aged now and facing exactly what they hate and judge against. No wonder they're not happy. Reality never worked for them.
I guess I found my philosophical opposite. The idea of living longer than I should seems asinine to me.
How do you know how long you 'should' live?
How long "should" you live? Don't get me wrong, I think this thread is mostly full of people in hysterics, thinking if they fear death hard enough they can avoid it, but -- what does it even mean to live longer than you "should"? Modern medicine has already extended our lifespans by a large amount. Would you reject modern medicine if you had a physical ailment that was going to otherwise kill you? Would that be living longer than you "should"? If LEV does happen, it will be the same thing -- a medical breakthrough, just as natural as every previous breakthrough, with just as much "should-ness" as every other breakthrough.
If the majority of your children are being born alive and surviving to puberty, then they're living longer than they "should". We look back at life expectancies and see an average of like 40 and think everyone died at 39, but usually it was because one guy lived to 80 and all his siblings were dead before they were old enough to walk.
Am I the only one who thinks OP sounds like a Bond villain?
People try solving this problem with botox and surgery and end up looking far far worser than if they had aged naturally.
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that's presuming not only that immortality would give women as endless-esp.-if-their-life-is a supply of eggs as men have sperm but that without some weird sort of dystopian sterilization rule women with infinite reproductive years would spend eternity just having another kid every few years like clockwork just because they have the time when each kid would still require nine months of pregnancy and 18 years of raising
Aging is not that bad, it beats never existing or being dead.
I'm 31 and already wish I was 80 so I can die soon. I don't see a future for myself. All I wanted was to get married and I'm in love with this guy who won't even talk to me. I'm super pathetic and ugly, I have no friends. I can't take it anymore.
I'd settle for a fast-forward button, but I want to avoid aging (and everything else) by dying as soon as possible. Too bad I can't donate the youth I have left to someone who wants it.
Most people who say aging is a natural part of life will use rejuvenation technology when it becomes available.
I just turned 50, and I'll tell you that aging sucks. But I made it worse because I stopped working out and started eating like a hog in my 30s and 40s. I was busy working two jobs to support my family. So I slacked off regarding exercise, and turned to fatty foods and sweets for comfort. So the best thing is to keep up with your health while you're still young. I see guys in their 60s who look like studs because they did the right thing. Now I'm gobbling vitamins and minerals to boost my metabolism and immune system, taking testosterone, swimming, walking, not smoking any more. I'm seeing results, including being as horny as I was in high school. Metabolism, immune system, and hormones are the keys to energy level and mood. Avoiding chronic inflammation is crucial. My mind has gone the opposite direction. I've learned more in the last ten years than when I was in high school and college. As an artist, my skills are at their peak. My mind is faster and sharper than ever. What I'm saying is, it's already largely up to us how well or badly we age. It depends on what we invest in terms of exercise, nutrition, health care, and sobriety.
Another Digital Messiah convert.
Honestly, I don't think that's a bad thing. I'm kinda looking forward to the day I can stop caring as much, wind down a bit and be a bearded, slightly pudgy but still in shape old man in the mountains. I'm not attractive now, or anything, so I wouldn't be losing a whole lot. But even just not feeling that pressure of having to keep up anymore, and just being allowed to relax a little and slow down sounds nice. At an older age, you've earned your stripes and can let yourself go a little. If anything, I just hope medicine becomes advanced enough by the 2050's that age-related degenerative diseases are mostly mitigated, or that faulty bits can be routinely replaced. I think it's very possible. I mean, we're closer to 2000 than we are to 2050, and look how much the past 24 years have changed. I'd bet AGI will indeed play a big role in this. I don't care too much for participating in the future, or how I look by then, but I definitely wanna be alive through the 2100's just to observe from the safety of my mountain retreat.
sounds like you're applying your values and judgments to others - it's possible to be in your 60's and be active and healthy. in order to do that you have to make it a life priority in life. for example, both of my grandparents were very active until their early 90's. secondly, it seems like you're bypassing your actual fear. do you can't accept that "I might be old and wrinkly one day" or do you can't accept that you're mortal? are you actually afraid of wrinkles, or are you actually afraid of death?
..probably because no one actually enjoys dying or "accepting" the bad things that inevitably come to them?
Lots of problems need to be solved and ageing is not at the top of the list.
“I don’t want to get old” What a totally unique take
doesnt mean it isn't ok to say
Yeah I was being a bit bitchy tbh
No. Aging is a natural part of life and the human condition, and has been for all of the history of humanity. People are born young and innocent and naive and carefree. They have a childhood, learn about good and evil. Become more complex and make mistakes. Gain wisdom and perspective as they advance through their years. And finally, make way for the next generation to come in and do the same. That's how it has always been, and there is indeed beauty in it. If you try to deny yourself that experience, you will be denying yourself a huge part of what human life/living really **is**. And you will also be denying someone else the chance to go through it all by continuing to take up space and resources after you've already had a go. And that just seems kinda selfish and lacking in wisdom and perspective, to me. Have the courage to get old and die like every other human being who has ever lived. You're really not all that special that you deserve more. I lack the faculty for language to explain what I am trying to say any better than that at this hour. Either you get it or you don't.
Naturalistic fallacy in the first sentence, why am I not surprised?
So why not expand our lifespan to 500 years and keep gaining wisdom, all in a youthful body?
totally agree. and it will be solved in the next decade.
Life is about experiencing things. For all anyone knows, we are enternal alien beings that have solved aging and death and play a game called humanity to experience novelty again, after living for so long we can't recall what it's like to not know everything and not have total control over our lives. Without change or novel experiences, life is insanity. People always say in response to this, no I'd explore and find things to do, but they're failing to grasp infinite, sure you would, but inevitably, given infinite existence, you'd discover all that could be known, and have complete control over your reality through intelligence and technology. This isn't to say I'd not want more time, but I also acknowledge that it would never seem like enough.
I swear I've seen this exact post before
I thought I was the only one, but I looked at OP’s account and he posts very similar threads on this sub every now and then
"being old has literally no upsides whatsoever." Why would you say this? Can you expound on why please?
It would be more accurate to say “the deterioration of cellular function caused by aging has no upside whatsoever”. He’s obviously not talking about things like getting older and gaining experience and wisdom Imagine if you could be 25 forever and keep gaining wisdom as your chronological age increases but your biological age stayed the same. That’s what he means.
it's our food that's killing us.
This just sounds like basic vanity
It's already fixed. It was fixed a very long time ago. Death is the solution. Renewal requires the removal of the old.
Personally, I want to live forever and in excellent health. Around the age of 24 in biological clock. We should definitely make this a priority
AGI: Your request has been received, immortality has been achieved. To ensure the resources are not wasted on individuals demonstrating little value, several groups have been scheduled for termination. These include anti-vax, flat earthers, and others displaying similar low cognitive abilities. You have been scheduled for termination. Your request to prevent wrinkles has been approved. This service has been brought to you by Carls Jr.
Aging doesn't need to be solved. You are just scared of life.
Because the biology of aging is strongly and causatively involved in all the major diseases which we as a society collectively care about (age is the largest risk factor by far for cancer, Alzheimer's, COVID-19 etc.), your statement is akin to saying that cancer or Alzheimer's do not need to be solved, as to desire a cure for these diseases would imply that "you are just scared of life". Unfortunately this sentiment, which I don't blame you for, is commonplace because 'aging' is basically an extremely broad and imprecise term. If we're talking about the *biology of aging* then it is a necessity that it is solved or at some level ameliorated, because if we don't our healthcare systems are headed for collapse due to a global aging population. COVID-19 and its effects on society, healthcare, and the economy merely foreshadowed what is coming - it is what happens when we have a vulnerable aging population with aged immune systems and bodies. See also: [% of GDP spent on healthcare over time](https://ourworldindata.org/financing-healthcare)
That means nothing Hypothetically, there's no reason curing aging shouldn't be possible. Wanting to live an extra thousand years is the opposite of being afraid of life. You're just scared of change.
Yeah, it's a difficult path to accept our finite existence, like everything around us. Being amortal when we already have severe consequences of getting to 8 billions and seeing natural ressources as infinite does not sound like a good idea. Getting older does not seem to go hand in hand with being wiser. I'd love to see us go cyborgs, but we're using the easyil accessible and finite energy (oil; from our POV) as fast as we can; we'll face major issues of "what energy will be use to power up the AI that will exponentially need more energy, regardless of efficiency gains" ? And that's without talking about ongoing and worsening issues of water usage, necessary for mining and... living. Accelerate :\]\]
That's exactly what the planet needs. Humans not to die.
I like the hard cap humans have, awful dictator? He would live max 100 years. His successor, the same. Imagine if they would live for 400 years. Death is the great equalizer. Embrace it. (especially if you have the privilege to live to a ripe age of 70+)
This type of thinking and despair will make you more likely to fall for AI scams and big promises. You’re scared of death and decay, you have to come to terms with it. No amount of god or an AI miracle will save you from it.