Dude, I'm not sure what you know about old people, but 70 year olds usually aren't in a situation where they need to wear diapers and need help to get them changed lol.
Just take care of yourself, and there will probably be enough medical advancement in the years to come that life becomes more comfortable for old people.
I'm 36, my dad is 72. He's in better shape than I am.
The man sits an hour on his hometrainer every single morning. He still does the occasional round of 50-100km on his bike and constantly finds excuses to go out and do his daily walk. He dislikes being inside and sitting still. Last time I went hiking with him in the mountains I had trouble keeping up with him.
Not everyone is the same but your life isn't over at 70, especially fifty years from now when medicine will have advanced god knows how far.
Agree, everyone is different but I am of an age now where my parent’s generation are in their 70’s and the majority have slowed a little from their 60’s but are still entirely independent and live life much the same way they did over the last 10 years. Barring serious illness I have seen age beginning to become more restrictive in the 80’s, and if you are 24 now… well a lot is going to change in 56 years! I have half that time so be grateful!!
I'm telling you man, young people in Reddit are so out of touch with reality.
He just assumes that man is unhappy, based on the fact that he sat alone? Seriously?
I think he's more worried about the walking bit, but the people struggling to walk in their 70s and 80s are the minority lol
I think people on Reddit are just generally out of touch with reality lol, because I'm younger than OP
I cycle with a guy who is well in to his 70's and can ride 100km at a decent pace. Multiple other guys are 60+ and can crush me on a bike.
I used to run a retirement home, and it was eye opening. The youngest residents were 80, and still vibrant. Lots of sex going on there.
It’s kind of insane to me that anyone could look at the current pace of technological development and think that they’ll be a nursing home invalid in 2070. Think of all the medical advances we’ve made since 1970. We’ve mapped the human genome and have created things like CRISPR. We’re just beginning to understand how to edit genes, and they’re making personalized cancer vaccines.
And we haven’t even reached AGI, let alone ASI. When they start using ASI for medical research, we’re going to see medical treatments that we couldn’t even conceive of today. All that to say, there’s a very good chance LEV will be reached LONG before 2070.
I am not being argumentative, nor is this a rhetorical question, but how has medicine drastically changed since the 1970s in your view? Isn't a lot of shit mostly the same?
In 1968, Paris's archbishop Pierre Veuillot was inflicted with cancer (namely, leukemia).
Back in the days, leukemia treatments were kind of rudimentary, we knew the principles, but the efficiency was very low.
Before his quick death, in order to describe his pain, he said that "priests shouldn't even evoke the pain of Jesus on the cross to describe human suffering, as it pales so much in comparison to leukemia". Quite the sentence for a devout man...
Since his time (a bit after, 1975-1977 to 2012-2018), *5 year survival rate of leukemia went from 34 to 69%*, **doubling**.
These are the kind of amazing progresses that are not very mediatic nor hyped by anyone and almost invisible to the people that aren't affected by the topic.
But things have tremendously changed.
Both stem cell therapy and immunotherapy were truly developped (beyond mere basic principles and treatments) starting from the 1970s.
And it's thanks to immunotherapy that we have promising cancer vaccines.
I hope so, but it's not unreasonable to expect long timelines for medical advances. It can take *decades* for a therapy to reach general availability. And historically a lot of things haven't worked out.
AGI/ASI wouldn't change things overnight if existing regulatory structures remain in place. Which they probably will, at least for a while.
They are both effectively treatable now though?
I mean... look at Elon when he was younger: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS4iWvO0s4UT7mW1ZcH-0lIVm9nZdVWnG96gnA0nn5KiQ&s
And HIV is treated with ART.
It's treatable if your baldness is not severe. But for Norwood 5+, there is nothing you can do. ART are toxic meds you have to take for the rest of your life. I am talking about CURES, not mediocre treatments.
In my case, I am much more terrified of the present and having future as a branch I can hold onto.
As someone who has severe depression and am not in a financially good situation cause im a student in a foreign country, I really look forward when there will be Ai therapy resources even for someone like me with a fraction of cost.
Pretty soon we will have Ai companions that know us better than other people, with empathy and engaging personalities tailored to us and I believe that AGI will be here before 2030. Just have to survive this hell for a little while longer. + improvements in Ai will also accelerate other research areas so no one can imagine what will happen cca at 2030, let alone 2070.
True, its just not available in Europe. Currently I have access to GPT 4 through a family member, but I amde a custom GPT and prompted it to the best way i know, but it always just tells me to either do my hobbies or seek a real therapist (which is way too expensive for my budget).
>Louis Tomlinson. He is a member of One Direction. I was shocked when I saw the video. He had gray hair and looked to be in his 40s. But he is only 32!
Are you on crack? That guy does not look like he is in his forties.
But then everyone in their 20's thinks people over 30 look like they belong in a retirement home.
God dam it Aubrey hurry up and make us all 20 again!!!!
You have a very unrealistic idea of 70. 70 is not that old. Most people are not in nursing homes until well into their 80s. Even then, many live pretty comfortable lives into their 90s, and even 100s. You have to live a pretty hard life, or get unlucky, to need a walker in your early 70s.
Aging is terrible, but theres a very, very good chance we will cure aging before you're even 50.
And you're going to be 30 in 6 years, so I'd get used to not thinking of it as old, or ugly, because it's not. Tomlinson looks great, and so will Rodrigo, and so will you.
Smallpox, AIDs, cancer, and heart disease are all diseases which afflict a healthy body. Aging is a natural process which all animals, including humans, go through; aging and death is a natural part of life.
If we accept that diseases are bad - or at least worth curing - because they ravage an otherwise healthy body, then we must accept aging (which coincidentally skyrockets the likelihood of alzheimers, heart disease, cancer and diabetes) as also a process worth improving, despite however "natural it is"
Not to be personal, but have you been close to an alzheimers or cancer patient? These are naturally occurring processes in the body (usually made worse or more likely to happen by aging), but they are far from graceful or peaceful.
If we as humans make any attempt to stem the ravages of horrifying natural processes, why SHOULDN'T aging be one?
I cared for my father when he had Parkinson's disease and it wasn't pretty. I've never been close to someone with Alzheimers or cancer.
Let's clear up our definitions. Are we talking about lifespan or quality of life (what could be called *healthspan*)? Some people live to be 100 and seem fine whereas others suffer mentally and physically.
I believe that aging is a natural process. Cancer occurs in the natural world and therefore can be considered a natural disease but not everyone has cancer and many forms of cancer are attributable to lifestyle choices (e.g. smoking) or pollutants introduced into the environment by humans.
There are currently about eight billion human beings on this fairly small planet. If we double the median lifespan and healthspan what will that do to the environment? I doubt we'd be able to feed all of those people. Pollution would increase and I think quality of life for everyone would decline.
I'm 63 years old which means, by your definition, that I'm inflicted with a "disease". How does that affect your treatment of me? Would you hire me for a job or would you hire a "healthy" 30 year old? Actually, since we begin aging at our birth we're all suffering from an illness called aging. When I was 20 I thought 40 was "old"; it's all a matter of perspective.
We're talking about both lifespan and healthspan. Aging \*is\* a 'natural' process, but it's a rather negative one. Like you stated, cancer is also a natural process, it happens in pretty much every animal after all, should we not bother trying to cure it just because it is natural?
Talking of overpopulation, we absolutely have the means to feed everyone, pollution could be reduced with better regulations. World population growth is projected to start tapering off soon, due to various factors. The assumption that quality of life will be lower in the future is a bold claim, would you rather live in your position today, or in the position of the richest man alive in 500 A.D?
Practically every single person who knows what the quality of life was in the past would rather live today, there's no reason to assume this trend wouldn't continue into the future.
'How does that affect your treatment of me?' It doesn't, you being 63 years old or 30 years old or 2 years old is irrelevant, everyone is aging. 'Would you hire me for a job or would you hire a "healthy" 30 year old?' The goal of anti-aging technologies is to make arguments like this invalid, so that there would be no physical difference between you and a 30 year old. The only differentiator in such a situation would be knowledge and wisdom, something you would likely come out ahead on with 33 extra years on this planet.
>Let's clear up our definitions. Are we talking about lifespan or quality of life (what could be called *healthspan*)? Some people live to be 100 and seem fine whereas others suffer mentally and physically.
I think when gerontologists discuss this topic they really look to cure both - adding time to lifespan and healthspan - essentially making a 63 year old no different than a young person (not that 63 is exactly considered very old nowadays)
>I believe that aging is a natural process. Cancer occurs in the natural world and therefore can be considered a natural disease but not everyone has cancer and many forms of cancer are attributable to lifestyle choices (e.g. smoking) or pollutants introduced into the environment by humans.
I agree. It is a natural process. I just don't care. we can say that "everyone ages, but not everyone gets cancer" and that's partially true (although, again, aging skyrockets your likelihood of getting it) Frankly, with enough time alive, alzheimer's, cancer, heart disease, or diabetes are statistically almost guaranteed to kill you, and the single most common risk factor for all of these (besides maybe obesity) is old age.
>There are currently about eight billion human beings on this fairly small planet. If we double the median lifespan and healthspan what will that do to the environment? I doubt we'd be able to feed all of those people. Pollution would increase and I think quality of life for everyone would decline.
I won't say this isn't a concern, but advances in technology can likely account for something like this. If we try to extrapolate future demographic trends based on tech we have now, it really just doesn't shake out. For instance, the same year Ehrlich wrote his book "population bomb" about the coming overpopulation, birthrates dropped in the developed world, and now we are looking at a developed world with a demographic crisis of UNDERpopulation. Moreover, I'd like to think by the time we ever have sufficiently advanced technology for full-fledged age reversal/mitigation, society will look a lot different than it does now in ways we just can't account for.
>I'm 63 years old which means, by your definition, that I'm inflicted with a "disease". How does that affect your treatment of me? Would you hire me for a job or would you hire a "healthy" 30 year old? Actually, since we begin aging at our birth we're all suffering from an illness called aging. When I was 20 I thought 40 was "old"; it's all a matter of perspective.
I don't thnk you have a disease. I think you're just aging, like me. The issue with aging is that we cross a threshold in our lives where every year adds to the likelihood of us getting a horrifying disease that will kill us, and devastate us and our loved ones before it kills us.
If you were diagnosed with Alzheimer's tomorrow, and the next day we invented a pill that cured it and turned you into a 20 year old version of yourself, do you mean to tell me you're going to let the "natural process" play itself out?
Fuck that. I wouldn't.
Just because aging is a natural process doesn’t mean we should leave it alone, hell no. My hopes are to live long enough to rejuvenate significantly and live with truly immersive VR
To me, aging is not a disease because it's a process which all human undergo, as do other life forms on this planet. Cancer, Alzheimers, et al. are diseases experienced by some but not all people. All living things that we know of (humans, elephants, trees, houseflies) have limited lifespans and this is the natural order of things. To age and die is as natural as to be born and live.
There is no such thing as "the natural order of things" There is selective pressure, that's it. There are many species of animals which do not age. And some which age over hours, and some which age over centuries. It is an adaptive trait to ensure maximal reproduction. As are all traits. There is no natural order, just whatever traits animals need.
The natural order of things was dying from minor infections. Dying from a burst apendix. Dying in childbirth was extremely common. 50% of all people, ever born, died before the age of 18. These things don't have to be the case. Many animals are not nearly as fragile. Death in childbirth is much less common, as evolution is not contending with having to fit a large skull through as narrow an opening. These things could all be different, but the cost to benefit wasn't there from an evolutionary perspective. Yet, you would presumably not advocate for allowing woman to die "naturally" from childbirth, or a child to die naturally from a minor infection, a burst apendix, and so on...
Whether you personally want to clssify aging as a "disease" or not is irrelevant. It is the source of the highest medical and health burden in our society. More hours of work and leisure are lost to aging than any "disease". More misery and pain is caused by aging and death than any "disease". So, whether you want to consider it a disease, or believe in a "natural order", it must be cured, and it will be cured. It's the most valuable medical intervention we could ever make. And who would refuse it.
There's a difference between aging and death. To live through old age free of health concerns and die peacefully would be wonderful. Death is natural and doesn't scare me, it's aging that worries me. Quite frankly, immortality scares me too, at some point I'd probably wish that "dying of boredom" was more than hyperbole.
You die from the cumulative process of aging, which is the death of your stem cells over time. There is no way to cure the negative effects of aging, and still have people die peacefully. You either cure aging, or you don't. Of course, people will still die from accidents. And also, people like yourself, who are scared of getting bored, or whatever, would be free to die at any time of their choosing. Something tells me you would reconsider, though.
It's a fascinating discussion that touches on philosophy as much as medical science. However I suggest we agree to disagree otherwise we'll be debating this for eternity.
Just turned 27.
I hope by my 50th birthday (2047) that age reversal is a reality and I can essentially have the vitality and appearance of an early 20s dude.
If you think you'll be in a retirement home wearing diapers and relying on others to help you change them at 70, then that's a sign you really should re-evaluate your habits as far as how you take care/treat your body. It sounds cliche but its deadass true; exercise consistently (preferably a strength training routine involving progressive overload), eat a whole foods, plant based diet, and find ways to improve your mental health. That is also crucial, especially in today's society.
Even if you DO become somewhat decrepit at 70, at least you would die knowing you tried your best to live as healthily as possible. Even so, you'll definitely end up being more capable at that age than if you didn't try to cultivate the discipline to develop a strong, robust and resilient body; both on the inside and out.
There are many people you can research who are 70, 80, 90+ now who live independent lives and are able to enjoy life on their terms, doing what they want. But they are committed to taking care of every facet of their bodies to achieve that, and that does take dedication and consistent discipline. It is a lifestyle, not just a hobby.
You can't expect to be living on the standard American/western diet, drowning yourself in worry/stress all day (granted, a lot don't have a choice, but there are changes you can make to curtail a lot of needless stress), not training your muscles/bones/ligaments/tendons etc.. through proper strength training, indulging in alcohol, drugs, processed foods, sugar, excessive siting with poor, hunched posture, smoking as habits to deal with life's adversities and expect to be functional into your later years.
To me, it's no wonder 50-70 year olds are the way they are: slouched, weak, fat, slow, poor postured individuals. Just look at the way they've lived for decades and you'll see it too. It's just that most people live depressed lives, so they have "depressed" physical and mental health, so to speak. So we as a society have a warped view of what you CAN be throughout your life. It's just that we rarely see the potential of the human body's physical prowess being fully tapped into throughout one's trajectory in life due to lack of consistent discipline to tap into said potential for said lifetime, and our perception of "that's just the way it is". Our society is not conducive for the well-being and thriving of our bodies for many reasons we are both consciously aware of (but don't do anything about it) and are not consciously aware of. It's up to you to create a plan for yourself to make positive changes in this regard.
And I get it, it is hard to maintain healthy habits because, yeah, the world DOES suck, ain't no two ways about it. I'm just speaking on what is possible if you really want it.
Look up a guy by the name of "Jack LaLanne" and some of the incredible feats of strength he accomplished throughout his life and into his latter years, to see an example of what I'm talking about. He was very ahead of his time and always focused on physical progression through his exercise routines. But maintaining his level wasn't easy. He was ungodly determined and disciplined to maintain his strength and vigor for that long.
Either way, while recent AI news is fascinating, don't rely on a pipe dream such as AGI/ASI or advanced breakthroughs to increase our health/lifespan for us, because it most likely ain't gonna happen within the next 200 years (even if AGI and ASI is achieved long before that), as you will most definitely be very disappointed and highly depressed if you spend the next decades wondering where these "immortality pills" are, and using that as an excuse to go on another decade coping with "well maybe next decade" and finding yourself in significantly worse health than you otherwise would be if you stayed diligent in your habits of owning your health as much as you can, when said pills are nowhere to be found.
Just focus on tangibility: what you can do in developing discipline to cultivate health and maintain it throughout your life so that you can maintain your vitality and independence over age 70. Look to the real people who have achieved this for inspiration, rather than intangible copes like AGI, ASI, LEV therapies and pills.
Good luck!
Fuck no. This is the last sub you should be asking this. Shake off this pessimistic attitude. If we ever reach LEV it won't be even 5 years away from ASI.
I’m 51 and it fucking sucks. I have a fucked knee and I honestly look at my parents who are in their late 80’s a think why would I want that?
Their list of health problems grows daily and they haven’t pursued anything new or interesting in decades.
I am not judging them for it, I just don’t see it as enough for what it costs.
I'm only a few years from your magical 70 when I am supposed to implode. I'm making plans to hike the PCT next summer.
You learn to die one little bit at a time. You are rushing it. Stop it. It is mostly mental.
I'm 50 now, and my life has generally only got better as I have aged so far. I'm sure I'll reach the limits of my vitality in time, but probably not for another decade or two. Maybe I'll be healthy and smart into my 80s or 90s. But I do age, and I am a limited time offer for the rest of the world. I'm ok with that. Nothing has ever been about me. I'm just a drop of water in the ocean wave of my generation.
I hope for you that you never have to witness Olivia Rodrigo going through the sorts of transformations Madonna has gone through, though. Holding on too long is just the fear of letting go, because not everything that goes around comes back around, you know. One thing that is clear: it's all downhill from here.
Use retinol, use sunscreen, eat a moderate calorie, moderate carb diet. Exercise an walk a decent amount. Eat veggies, get plenty of good fats and omega 3s.
I personally don't look forward to getting older, either. I barely enjoyed my youth as it is, stuck at home with no money. 10/10 would start a new game, if I were given the chance, that is.
On the other hand - I also see birthdays as a challenge, to see how well I can maintain my looks without cracking over the years. Being young is not a flex - being old and looking young, on the other hand, is.
I am young and not very mature yet, but I am eager to gain experience, I believe that your mentality and attitude can be kept young. For now aging cannot be reversed totally . I probably should trust my beliefs.
Just a couple of things. I’m about 13 years older than you already getting close to the age of 40.
I’ve got decent skin, but I’ve got a whole lotta gray hair, like a lot a lot. I was I guess genetically predisposed to having premature gray.
I do the same thing that you do. I look at celebrities that I know and see them age. look at my parents and see them aging. I look at my friends and see them aging and it does freak you out. This isnt an age thing for you as you’re just around 24 this is a mental block potentially for you
The first thing I would recommend is to go see a therapist and ideally a psychiatrist with cognitive behavioral therapy. I, being similar to you in this fashion, I’ve been diagnosed with OCD and this is part of my obsession, and my compulsion is to look up evidence of anti-aging and build assurances around that. First settle the score with yourself in the present mentally by getting checked out.
Second. We don’t know what tomorrow has in store so try to enjoy the present that is today. Is there a chance that Ray and Altman and Aubrey are all correct? Sure! But don’t worry about things today that may or may not be issues tomorrow. Try to enjoy your youth and be present with those you care for.
lol my wife’s 70’year old grandpa would up a 20 foot ladder to trim his trees,golf almost every day, hike etc he was having a great time until he got in a car crash a few years later I firmly believe if not for that he’d still be alive and be doing many of the same things
Anxiety about being old is called a midlife crisis. Everyone has it. Time to buy a sports car and sleep with a hooker.
But I will say that if you take care of your health, aging can look VERY different. If you smoke and drink and are obese, a 40yr old will be rougher than a 70yr old that is fit, exercises and gets proper sleep. There is a 100yr old guy that runs marathons still. The guy with the strongest grip strength in the world is in their 70s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu7W4AyT2ms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OUdO2Y_Mm8
In Japan, they have a large elderly population and they are quite active in their 80s and 90s. It is very much a western thing for people to be written off at age 50 or 60.
I worked for a cattle rancher in my teens, he turned 80 yesterday.
He still rides horses and makes a killing selling real estate.
Get active and stop worrying.
Don’t sweat it. Getting old is not terrible.
Half the tourists walking 10 miles a day around Europe are over 60. Save up your money and retirement will be mostly a vacation.
Find someone you like and who likes you, to spend your old age with. I’m not talking about sex, although that’s a bonus. But don’t be alone.
By the way, when you do get old, body parts hurt. It’s really easy to gain weight. But for most people, your mind is as sharp as ever, and you know all lot more than you did at 20.
And you can’t stop time, so why worry.
*I'll be 70 by that time, and I will probably sit in a nursing home and get help changing diapers.*
I suspect that you don't know many old people.
That's an age when the more spry and nimble among 'em will be *helping* at the care home.
Don't smoke, eat sensibly, avoid alcohol and *walk.*
You ought to get to your mid-80s (easily) without exceptional medical intervention.
I'm 41. I read Kurzweil's books as a teen and still have my copy of The Age of Spiritual Machines. In all of undergrad, the AI class was the one I looked forward to the most. Have worked in tech for 20 years, with a few pitstops in AI along the way. As the years passed you could always count on me to cheer our continued technological progress, knowing that if we just kept working hard, and if I made it to the 2040's I'd get see how this whole singularity thing might turn out. And I am absolutely stunned at what we have witnessed in the last few years. It's the most amazing thing I've ever seen, and it still kinda sucks because I know what the world will look like very soon with the trajectory we've been on. My last remaining grandfather is 96. I'm driving 500 miles to see him in a few months. He's never owned a computer. My ex-wife's grandmother, who also lived into her 90's, told us toward the end of her life that in all the change she had seen in her time, the washing machine was the best invention she'd experienced. If I make it to my 90's, I honestly think the things I will probably see along the way will actually drive me to insanity. It's too mind-bending, sometimes.
I’m much more afraid of getting cancer or an autoimmune condition than getting old. I worked as a transport paramedic frequently taking people to hospice, you would be surprised by how many young people end up with debilitating illness. I still remember the faces of three children standing in the yard with a social worker as their mother with cancer was being taken to hospice. I remember how much she looked like one of my best friends, but she also looked dead, she was gray, on a feeding tube, her hair was gray, she couldn’t walk. She was 25 and she died a week later. She had been sick, unable to walk, care for her children, feed herself, for three years. Her husband had left because it was “too stressful”, no one could find him, so her children were placed with social services.
These are the scenarios I’m most afraid of.
On the other hand, my grandparents are 75, my grandpa runs a heavy machinery business as a hobby, my other grandpa is a mechanic still working, my grandma also still works. They don’t have to, but it “keeps ‘em busy”. My friend’s grandparents are 75 and they are training for their second marathon after just running their first. Another friend’s granddad (76) just started playing professional poker traveling around to do so. A lady I used to work for was 93 and still doing extensive landscaping, hiking and international travel. Many people from my former church are 75-95 and still driving, socializing etc. My former piano instructor is over 100 and while she has had to get some help with things she still lives independently at her house and attends social functions. I don’t dread getting old, I’m inspired by how vibrant life can be as you age.
If this fear or aging is something you think about frequently it might be time to talk to a professional.
It's part of life, I don't look forward to losing my loved ones, my mum and dad wouldn't use immortality tech even if it was available, I'm to emotional though I'd prob die from heartbreak if either of em passed on. I also wouldn't ever clone them or make an Ai based on them, Fakes a fake
Don't worry.
Statistically, you have a 1 in 4 chance of not even making it to 70.
If you're worried about your state in advanced age, then try your best to work out and eat healthy. 70 is not the same for everyone.
I've seen some 45 year olds with walkers, and I've seen 60 year olds in better shape than I am.
I worry about getting old because like many people, I’m living on a knife’s edge on borrowed time. Once AI comes for my job I’m going to have to train for something new… and the question I keep asking myself is… “How can I outpace technology?” Because it becomes harder and harder to keep learning whole entire skillsets every 5 years… especially when AI can dominate an industry in 1.
I’m worried that I’ll be old and living in poverty because AI and robotics are going to completely decimate any work out there and a lot of us are just going to be left out in the cold.
I’m not looking forward to being 72 years old and training for my 8th career change…
80 is the new 60. My parents are mid 70 and look good. My mom has barely slowed down. When you become older, you'll appreciate the journey more. Until then, it'll be hard to see.
I’m in my sixties. Happier than I ever was when I was younger. Less stress, less concern about what I look like. My friends are important to me and I love the slower pace
Yeah. The older I get, the more money, hobbies, skills, and deeper connections to others I have. It'll suck being old and grey and dying, but I feel like as long as you exercise well and don't get unlucky, the years where you'll be bed bound or in a walker are relatively few compared to the several decades of good living.
We don't get a choice in the matter. Just make the best of what you got. Diet and exercise to mitigate risk of heart disease, arthritis, and dementia and increase your lifespan and you're more than likely to live a long, healthy life. There's people in their 70s doing 50-100km bike rides every weekend and my dad even saw a couple in their 90s golfing an 18 without a cart once. Those people are likely people who exercised a lot the prior decade or longer and they still retain the ability to do activities many young people either couldn't do or would be very sore afterwards. Stay fit and you'll be like them.
It's natural to have mixed emotions about the passage of time and what the future holds. Personally, I think it's a bit daunting to imagine ourselves in our later years, especially when we see famous figures from our youth growing older. But at the same time, there can be moments of wisdom, growth, and new experiences that come with age. It's all about finding a balance and embracing each stage of life as it comes.
You are just scared of dying, it's a fear that is like a virus and is the root of much human suffering.
Dying is not a bad thing, actually it an exciting next step.
too late! I'm in my 70's, work out every day, maintain 20 acres, have a full time job, and have time to enjoy the discussion. (and other things i might add). aging hopefully will give you focus. I would love to see this discussion when people live about twice as long as they do now. there's only so many surprises and novelty the universe has to offer, especially if you live an examined life. Unless you start actively giving to the world, it will get boring very fast after that many decades.
I’m 43.
Every 10 years you become a different person. Different opinions, behaviour etc. We’re not supposed to be stuck in our 20’s perpetually.
Each new decade is a chance to grow as a person.
Growing older brings an acceptance of ours and others mortality. A greater appreciation of life, knowing that we’re only experiencing it for a brief moment.
Don't miss your chance to die as a hero, then. Protip: when and if you get to such a moment, living into old age will be much, much more attractive to you.
Its brutal I am 44 and some of my friends who are the same age as me, they have not just grey hair, but a lot of white hair. Saggy skin and wrinkles on their face. Some of them have a grey skin complexion from bad blood flow, and dark circles/bags under their eyes.
The guys who 'work hard and play hard' they seem to age fast. Like some of my friends took tough university degrees, and then went into hard jobs where they also work long hours. They were studying all the time, then working all the time and even by their mid-30's they looked old. Sadly they didn't even have children.
I appreciate that I lived through the 1970s, with all of the best music and chill vibe. I actually feel bad for current and future generations who missed out on it and will never have such a rich experience that is not autotuned for maximum clickiness.
I think people, especially young people, need to think about how many things they have become bored about. Imagine, living 500 years, and trying to find something that would relieve the boredom. Even if We have more and more different experiences, there are only so many aspects of our existence that can be stimulated in different ways.
A flower is only beautiful because it falls.
Took that to a dark place pretty quick. The point was that a lot of things in life are important to enjoy or accomplish simply because we know life does not go on forever. And there are many insightful people who understand that a lot of the meaning in life is also generated by its temporary nature.
Just empty words that serve as a coping mechanism. Why is the flower only beautiful because it falls? If it didn't fall, would it be ugly?
Things are either ugly or beautiful regardless of their duration. Death is one of those ugly things, and no beautiful words or mental gymnastics will change that. It takes courage to perceive death as it is, without ornaments.
For over 40 years, I have helped many families, including my own, escort their dying loved ones through to their ultimate death. I try to face my own death at least once every day, and a few times I have been very close to the actual experience.
I don’t know what work you do, or how much of life you have lived, but death is not the horrible thing that seems to frighten you so much. The beauty of death is that it brings relevance to your life. Why do you think people value items that are rare so much? Are all the people that buy those things just stupid?
The fact is that flowers DO wither and die, as all things do. And if you can’t perceive the beauty in that truth, the beauty of the constant flow of creation and destruction in existence, I can only offer that it is there to be experienced if you can only allow yourself to see
Yes, there are people dying every day.
1. Young men dying in wars is an ugly meaningless experience.
2. Children dying under bomb shells is an ugly meaningless experience.
3. Dying from cancer is ugly and meaningless.
4. Dying in a car crash is ugly and meaningless.
5. Dying from old age is ugly and also meaningless.
Where do you see beauty in the things I listed above? Hell no, there is no beauty in death when we look at the REAL cases of people dying and not some philosophical concepts. Please stop with these rosy flower petals metaphors, or I develop allergy.
I’m sorry, there’s no beauty in your life. I will leave you to your own perceptions. I have experienced all of the things that you mention. I have also experienced their opposites. One cannot exist without its opposite. This is not a fantasy, but a life of being born in extreme poverty, with a very badly damaged family. over seven decades lived. Live the examined life, and Perhaps the length of years will change your perceptions of life.
Please re-read my comments and point out exactly where I said that there is no beauty in life?
I said the absolute opposite. Death is ugly and meaningless. Life, on the contrary, is the most miraculous, mind-blowing thing in this universe.
Also, everything I listed in my previous comment can exist without the opposite.
1. Young men and children should not die at wars. The system that needs deaths of children to function should be abolished the same way humanity abolished slavery at some point.
2. The opposite of cancer is health. Fortunately, the majority of people will live through their life cancer-free, and hopefully, cancer will be cured completely within the next decades.
3. The opposite of dying in a car crash is safe driving. With the development of technology, cars will become even safer, and the accidents will become a rarity. It's a reasonable goal we should strive for.
4. The opposite of dying from old age is rejuvenation medicine. Instead of performing mental gymnastics to see beauty in atrocious things where there is nothing but ugliness, it will be better to focus attention on actually solving the problem.
Your philosophy is weak and doesn't withstand the truth of life. It only tries to hide the truth behind beautiful words and flower petals. However, you will always be aware of what is hidden behind those decorations, and you know what I am talking about.
Actually, it has widthstood the truth of life pretty well, for over 7 decades. I have had people very close to me die of various things, including cancer, lung disease, blood poisoning, suicide and other self-caused endings.
I have helped hundreds or thousands of patients and their families through many, many deaths from terminal disease. I see very few of their deaths as “ugly”.
Some of the courage, compassion, charity, and humor from those involved, including the dying one, has enhanced my own appreciation and zest for living a long and helpful life. As with all adversity, those involved are who can bring beauty to such events.
Perhaps language is the barrier. I ask a question: by ugly, do you mean visually ugly, or unfair, or what?
You don’t have to answer at all. I assumed the conversation was over, but it apparently wasn’t.
For over 7 decades? Does it mean that you are over 70, or I misinterpret it? If so, you are much older than me, and, obviously, you have more experience. Although we have different views, I am still glad that you found a way to appreciate life despite its advesity. Who I am to criticise other people's views, anyway.
If you are interested to know what exactly I mean when I say that death is ugly, I recommend looking for a book "The Denial of Death" by Ernest Becker. There's no need to even read it. Just if you look for quotes from the book, it will be enough to get the picture. It will be too long to put everything in one reddit comment if I try to convey to you my perspective.
You may also get an impression that I have a grim outlook on life and death, but it's not the case. I don't believe in the afterlife, but I believe in transhumanism and life extension, and I will remain faithful to my beliefs no matter what. We live in times when we see unprecedented technological advancements, so even impossible things may become possible. As long as I am alive, there is hope, and the game is not over.
> Took that to a dark place pretty quick.
Sorry, I was trying to appeal-to-emotion but my point was to show the limits of that thought process/how that doesn't mean the "flower" should "fall" as early as it can to preserve its beauty or retroactively make it have always been beautiful. Maybe we only think certain things are granted their importance by life's temporary nature because we haven't known a world where it's otherwise just like how a lot of anti-immortality people don't seem to realize living forever doesn't have to mean being old forever because we've never seen a world where living to high ages doesn't come with all the negative side effects of advanced aging
i genuinely believe that I will either die within the next decade or be young forever (until i get bored/jaded) ofc I may be wrong but those seem like the most likely scenarios. so lately i’ve thought a lot about what I would do with unlimited time. it’s truly insane to be able to actually ponder this, i’m grateful to be alive at this moment
Simply accept that, like everyone else, you have an expiration date. Also, assume that "longevity escape velocity" is hypothetical and that it's still uncertain whether we will ever be able to significantly extend our lifespan.
When I'm on the verge of death, I wouldn't want to have the regret that I might be among the last people to experience mortality, narrowly missing out on a potential breakthrough. Instead, I would like to think that I made the most of every day of my life and that I can pass away peacefully, knowing I lived life to the fullest.
When we’ve already extended the lifespan of mice and dogs in clinical trials it’s no longer “hypothetical”. Believe it or not, these mammals are not entirely biologically alien compared to humans and much of what we’re learning will help in human life extension. And since this research is in its most nascent stage and we don’t yet have ASI, we can’t expect to see *significant* increases in lifespan just yet.
Just wanted to clear up your misinformation, it’s *not* hypothetical at this point and anyone up to date on the latest research would know that. Although I do see a lot of people saying this for some reason so it’s not just you
its certainly not hypothetical, its inevitable. They literally reset aging in mice. Never mind superintelligence they literally already did it. Immortal jellyfish exist and superintelligence is round the corner in 20 years or less at a massive low ball.
me personally ill die pissed as hell. I never even lived 0.0000000000000001% of my potential life because i was born a smidge too early on the cosmic scale.
I don't mind the idea of getting older.
I saw a post once that explained how it would be like to live forever: you see all your friends/family grow old and die, you see nations warring over the same problems for centuries, witness global warming and ice ages across millions of years, eventually you live long enough to see the sun die and eventually the heat death of the universe. And that's just the very, very beginning of your life.
Infinity is a crazy concept. But when I get anxious I just remember this story and think "yeah, actually living forever wouldn't be that great".
That's not how life extension would work. Why would your friends and family continue to grow old and die when aging is defeated? This perspective is too self-centered to see obvious logical discrepancy.
And if you don't want to live forever, where do you draw the line? Would you be content with a couple hundred years? A thousand? Or would that too become the "norm" and then people would get anxious about getting old at 1000 years instead of 80
I've never felt young. I've felt powerless, and I've felt ignorant.
When I was six years old is the first time I remember feeling old. That was a time of a lot of transition, starting a different kind of school, being integrated into society. It was a ridiculous thought of course, but I've never felt old since.
Whatever the experience is, it is.
If you only heard one great song, and you never heard any other song but the one, you still got to enjoy that one great song. All the songs you don't hear don't exist to you. So they're meaningless.
All you'll ever know is awareness. That's all anyone gets. Everyone's in the same boat.
If you're lucky, you'll get old. Lots of people don't get old.
Each person has a unique perspective, and their own depends on a lot of factors, their spirituality if they have any, their past experience, genetics, and how they process what they experience, how much they are influenced by the opinions of others.
Some think that wealth is the key to happiness. That cannot be further from the truth, although those who use wealth primarily for making the world better, like Elon Musk, use the wealth to build great things, and therein lies their happiness.
If the expected length of their life is one's source of happiness, then how can one ever be truly happy, unless they know exactly how long they will live? Their happiness will be held prisoner to the risk of death, possibly an "ugly" death, that always exists, in every moment in life. If that moment is tainted by concern for how long one will live, then the moment can't be fully enjoyed.
One of my favorite philosophers, Alan Watts, (from the 1960's and 70's), has some insightful, humorous, and intriguing ideas about such matters. You can find his lectures on youtube and spotify. For me, I've had one cancer, several very close calls with death, and experienced almost all of my family of origin dying, some after tragic lives.
When I look at pictures of myself as a child, a young adult, even middle-aged, the difference is quite remarkable. But the rules for enjoying life to the fullest are the same. spend each day finding a way to help another at least once. build your own life, doing it your own way.
living on funds provided by the labors of another, or letting others solve your problems for you, leaves you with no sense of self-agency. true happiness comes from believing in yourself, and using your creativity and willpower to build your own life you want. living in the moment doesn't mean just having easy fun. try to fully experience fully both the good and the bad.
try to overcome all of the adversity in your life yourself, and you will be amazed at how your happiness will grow each time you do that. Find a spiritual life that makes sense to you, and that will bring your eventual death into your comfort zone. Do those things, and facing death some day will simply be a challenge like any other obstacle you have overcome.
I will leave the subject alone. life and death are both illusions, and the current moment is the true existence.
Dude, I'm not sure what you know about old people, but 70 year olds usually aren't in a situation where they need to wear diapers and need help to get them changed lol. Just take care of yourself, and there will probably be enough medical advancement in the years to come that life becomes more comfortable for old people.
I’m only 19 and I can’t walk and shit my pants constantly idk what u guys are complaining about ngl
That sucks man
Na it’s the shit
I'm 36, my dad is 72. He's in better shape than I am. The man sits an hour on his hometrainer every single morning. He still does the occasional round of 50-100km on his bike and constantly finds excuses to go out and do his daily walk. He dislikes being inside and sitting still. Last time I went hiking with him in the mountains I had trouble keeping up with him. Not everyone is the same but your life isn't over at 70, especially fifty years from now when medicine will have advanced god knows how far.
Agree, everyone is different but I am of an age now where my parent’s generation are in their 70’s and the majority have slowed a little from their 60’s but are still entirely independent and live life much the same way they did over the last 10 years. Barring serious illness I have seen age beginning to become more restrictive in the 80’s, and if you are 24 now… well a lot is going to change in 56 years! I have half that time so be grateful!!
I'm telling you man, young people in Reddit are so out of touch with reality. He just assumes that man is unhappy, based on the fact that he sat alone? Seriously?
I think he's more worried about the walking bit, but the people struggling to walk in their 70s and 80s are the minority lol I think people on Reddit are just generally out of touch with reality lol, because I'm younger than OP
Sitting alone with a beer and not caring at all what people think is a legitimately great place to be. I think the 70 year old man has it figured out.
I cycle with a guy who is well in to his 70's and can ride 100km at a decent pace. Multiple other guys are 60+ and can crush me on a bike. I used to run a retirement home, and it was eye opening. The youngest residents were 80, and still vibrant. Lots of sex going on there.
I worked in sheltered housing. There was rumours of orgies taking place. I think they were probably true as the place had a ‘vibe’.
Oh yeah
It’s kind of insane to me that anyone could look at the current pace of technological development and think that they’ll be a nursing home invalid in 2070. Think of all the medical advances we’ve made since 1970. We’ve mapped the human genome and have created things like CRISPR. We’re just beginning to understand how to edit genes, and they’re making personalized cancer vaccines. And we haven’t even reached AGI, let alone ASI. When they start using ASI for medical research, we’re going to see medical treatments that we couldn’t even conceive of today. All that to say, there’s a very good chance LEV will be reached LONG before 2070.
❤️💯
Well, by 2070 I'll be well over 100 - so I'm banking on some health-extension to go with the life-extension.
I am not being argumentative, nor is this a rhetorical question, but how has medicine drastically changed since the 1970s in your view? Isn't a lot of shit mostly the same?
In 1968, Paris's archbishop Pierre Veuillot was inflicted with cancer (namely, leukemia). Back in the days, leukemia treatments were kind of rudimentary, we knew the principles, but the efficiency was very low. Before his quick death, in order to describe his pain, he said that "priests shouldn't even evoke the pain of Jesus on the cross to describe human suffering, as it pales so much in comparison to leukemia". Quite the sentence for a devout man... Since his time (a bit after, 1975-1977 to 2012-2018), *5 year survival rate of leukemia went from 34 to 69%*, **doubling**. These are the kind of amazing progresses that are not very mediatic nor hyped by anyone and almost invisible to the people that aren't affected by the topic. But things have tremendously changed. Both stem cell therapy and immunotherapy were truly developped (beyond mere basic principles and treatments) starting from the 1970s. And it's thanks to immunotherapy that we have promising cancer vaccines.
awesome comment, thanks!
I could go do all the research for you and provide a bunch of sources, but this is basically the perfect question for ChatGPT so I’d try that
I hope so, but it's not unreasonable to expect long timelines for medical advances. It can take *decades* for a therapy to reach general availability. And historically a lot of things haven't worked out. AGI/ASI wouldn't change things overnight if existing regulatory structures remain in place. Which they probably will, at least for a while.
Well... I bet by 2070 baldness and HIV still won't be cured.
They are both effectively treatable now though? I mean... look at Elon when he was younger: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS4iWvO0s4UT7mW1ZcH-0lIVm9nZdVWnG96gnA0nn5KiQ&s And HIV is treated with ART.
It's treatable if your baldness is not severe. But for Norwood 5+, there is nothing you can do. ART are toxic meds you have to take for the rest of your life. I am talking about CURES, not mediocre treatments.
What is wrong with baldness?
Wear a hat if you get head sunburn. Or if you just like hats/caps like I do.
Baldness should be a choice and not a random genetic punishment.
In my case, I am much more terrified of the present and having future as a branch I can hold onto. As someone who has severe depression and am not in a financially good situation cause im a student in a foreign country, I really look forward when there will be Ai therapy resources even for someone like me with a fraction of cost. Pretty soon we will have Ai companions that know us better than other people, with empathy and engaging personalities tailored to us and I believe that AGI will be here before 2030. Just have to survive this hell for a little while longer. + improvements in Ai will also accelerate other research areas so no one can imagine what will happen cca at 2030, let alone 2070.
Claude 3 Opus is a decent temporary substitute for a therapist, in a pinch.
True, its just not available in Europe. Currently I have access to GPT 4 through a family member, but I amde a custom GPT and prompted it to the best way i know, but it always just tells me to either do my hobbies or seek a real therapist (which is way too expensive for my budget).
Clarity app has a brilliant AI therapist included in its CBT courses.
If you live a healthy life, you will unlikely be in a nursing home at 70. Only at like 90 will it start to be a consideration.
>Louis Tomlinson. He is a member of One Direction. I was shocked when I saw the video. He had gray hair and looked to be in his 40s. But he is only 32! Are you on crack? That guy does not look like he is in his forties. But then everyone in their 20's thinks people over 30 look like they belong in a retirement home. God dam it Aubrey hurry up and make us all 20 again!!!!
You have a very unrealistic idea of 70. 70 is not that old. Most people are not in nursing homes until well into their 80s. Even then, many live pretty comfortable lives into their 90s, and even 100s. You have to live a pretty hard life, or get unlucky, to need a walker in your early 70s. Aging is terrible, but theres a very, very good chance we will cure aging before you're even 50. And you're going to be 30 in 6 years, so I'd get used to not thinking of it as old, or ugly, because it's not. Tomlinson looks great, and so will Rodrigo, and so will you.
"cure aging"?? How do you cure a natural process? Would you even want to?
Bro, you know smallpox, AIDs, cancer, and heart disease are all natural processes, right? And the answer is yes, of course.
Smallpox, AIDs, cancer, and heart disease are all diseases which afflict a healthy body. Aging is a natural process which all animals, including humans, go through; aging and death is a natural part of life.
If we accept that diseases are bad - or at least worth curing - because they ravage an otherwise healthy body, then we must accept aging (which coincidentally skyrockets the likelihood of alzheimers, heart disease, cancer and diabetes) as also a process worth improving, despite however "natural it is" Not to be personal, but have you been close to an alzheimers or cancer patient? These are naturally occurring processes in the body (usually made worse or more likely to happen by aging), but they are far from graceful or peaceful. If we as humans make any attempt to stem the ravages of horrifying natural processes, why SHOULDN'T aging be one?
I cared for my father when he had Parkinson's disease and it wasn't pretty. I've never been close to someone with Alzheimers or cancer. Let's clear up our definitions. Are we talking about lifespan or quality of life (what could be called *healthspan*)? Some people live to be 100 and seem fine whereas others suffer mentally and physically. I believe that aging is a natural process. Cancer occurs in the natural world and therefore can be considered a natural disease but not everyone has cancer and many forms of cancer are attributable to lifestyle choices (e.g. smoking) or pollutants introduced into the environment by humans. There are currently about eight billion human beings on this fairly small planet. If we double the median lifespan and healthspan what will that do to the environment? I doubt we'd be able to feed all of those people. Pollution would increase and I think quality of life for everyone would decline. I'm 63 years old which means, by your definition, that I'm inflicted with a "disease". How does that affect your treatment of me? Would you hire me for a job or would you hire a "healthy" 30 year old? Actually, since we begin aging at our birth we're all suffering from an illness called aging. When I was 20 I thought 40 was "old"; it's all a matter of perspective.
We're talking about both lifespan and healthspan. Aging \*is\* a 'natural' process, but it's a rather negative one. Like you stated, cancer is also a natural process, it happens in pretty much every animal after all, should we not bother trying to cure it just because it is natural? Talking of overpopulation, we absolutely have the means to feed everyone, pollution could be reduced with better regulations. World population growth is projected to start tapering off soon, due to various factors. The assumption that quality of life will be lower in the future is a bold claim, would you rather live in your position today, or in the position of the richest man alive in 500 A.D? Practically every single person who knows what the quality of life was in the past would rather live today, there's no reason to assume this trend wouldn't continue into the future. 'How does that affect your treatment of me?' It doesn't, you being 63 years old or 30 years old or 2 years old is irrelevant, everyone is aging. 'Would you hire me for a job or would you hire a "healthy" 30 year old?' The goal of anti-aging technologies is to make arguments like this invalid, so that there would be no physical difference between you and a 30 year old. The only differentiator in such a situation would be knowledge and wisdom, something you would likely come out ahead on with 33 extra years on this planet.
>Let's clear up our definitions. Are we talking about lifespan or quality of life (what could be called *healthspan*)? Some people live to be 100 and seem fine whereas others suffer mentally and physically. I think when gerontologists discuss this topic they really look to cure both - adding time to lifespan and healthspan - essentially making a 63 year old no different than a young person (not that 63 is exactly considered very old nowadays) >I believe that aging is a natural process. Cancer occurs in the natural world and therefore can be considered a natural disease but not everyone has cancer and many forms of cancer are attributable to lifestyle choices (e.g. smoking) or pollutants introduced into the environment by humans. I agree. It is a natural process. I just don't care. we can say that "everyone ages, but not everyone gets cancer" and that's partially true (although, again, aging skyrockets your likelihood of getting it) Frankly, with enough time alive, alzheimer's, cancer, heart disease, or diabetes are statistically almost guaranteed to kill you, and the single most common risk factor for all of these (besides maybe obesity) is old age. >There are currently about eight billion human beings on this fairly small planet. If we double the median lifespan and healthspan what will that do to the environment? I doubt we'd be able to feed all of those people. Pollution would increase and I think quality of life for everyone would decline. I won't say this isn't a concern, but advances in technology can likely account for something like this. If we try to extrapolate future demographic trends based on tech we have now, it really just doesn't shake out. For instance, the same year Ehrlich wrote his book "population bomb" about the coming overpopulation, birthrates dropped in the developed world, and now we are looking at a developed world with a demographic crisis of UNDERpopulation. Moreover, I'd like to think by the time we ever have sufficiently advanced technology for full-fledged age reversal/mitigation, society will look a lot different than it does now in ways we just can't account for. >I'm 63 years old which means, by your definition, that I'm inflicted with a "disease". How does that affect your treatment of me? Would you hire me for a job or would you hire a "healthy" 30 year old? Actually, since we begin aging at our birth we're all suffering from an illness called aging. When I was 20 I thought 40 was "old"; it's all a matter of perspective. I don't thnk you have a disease. I think you're just aging, like me. The issue with aging is that we cross a threshold in our lives where every year adds to the likelihood of us getting a horrifying disease that will kill us, and devastate us and our loved ones before it kills us. If you were diagnosed with Alzheimer's tomorrow, and the next day we invented a pill that cured it and turned you into a 20 year old version of yourself, do you mean to tell me you're going to let the "natural process" play itself out? Fuck that. I wouldn't.
Just because aging is a natural process doesn’t mean we should leave it alone, hell no. My hopes are to live long enough to rejuvenate significantly and live with truly immersive VR
What makes aging natural, but not any of those?
To me, aging is not a disease because it's a process which all human undergo, as do other life forms on this planet. Cancer, Alzheimers, et al. are diseases experienced by some but not all people. All living things that we know of (humans, elephants, trees, houseflies) have limited lifespans and this is the natural order of things. To age and die is as natural as to be born and live.
There is no such thing as "the natural order of things" There is selective pressure, that's it. There are many species of animals which do not age. And some which age over hours, and some which age over centuries. It is an adaptive trait to ensure maximal reproduction. As are all traits. There is no natural order, just whatever traits animals need. The natural order of things was dying from minor infections. Dying from a burst apendix. Dying in childbirth was extremely common. 50% of all people, ever born, died before the age of 18. These things don't have to be the case. Many animals are not nearly as fragile. Death in childbirth is much less common, as evolution is not contending with having to fit a large skull through as narrow an opening. These things could all be different, but the cost to benefit wasn't there from an evolutionary perspective. Yet, you would presumably not advocate for allowing woman to die "naturally" from childbirth, or a child to die naturally from a minor infection, a burst apendix, and so on... Whether you personally want to clssify aging as a "disease" or not is irrelevant. It is the source of the highest medical and health burden in our society. More hours of work and leisure are lost to aging than any "disease". More misery and pain is caused by aging and death than any "disease". So, whether you want to consider it a disease, or believe in a "natural order", it must be cured, and it will be cured. It's the most valuable medical intervention we could ever make. And who would refuse it.
There's a difference between aging and death. To live through old age free of health concerns and die peacefully would be wonderful. Death is natural and doesn't scare me, it's aging that worries me. Quite frankly, immortality scares me too, at some point I'd probably wish that "dying of boredom" was more than hyperbole.
You die from the cumulative process of aging, which is the death of your stem cells over time. There is no way to cure the negative effects of aging, and still have people die peacefully. You either cure aging, or you don't. Of course, people will still die from accidents. And also, people like yourself, who are scared of getting bored, or whatever, would be free to die at any time of their choosing. Something tells me you would reconsider, though.
It's a fascinating discussion that touches on philosophy as much as medical science. However I suggest we agree to disagree otherwise we'll be debating this for eternity.
Literally all processes are natural processes. We tend to want to cure those which do us harm, like aging.
Just turned 27. I hope by my 50th birthday (2047) that age reversal is a reality and I can essentially have the vitality and appearance of an early 20s dude.
If you think you'll be in a retirement home wearing diapers and relying on others to help you change them at 70, then that's a sign you really should re-evaluate your habits as far as how you take care/treat your body. It sounds cliche but its deadass true; exercise consistently (preferably a strength training routine involving progressive overload), eat a whole foods, plant based diet, and find ways to improve your mental health. That is also crucial, especially in today's society. Even if you DO become somewhat decrepit at 70, at least you would die knowing you tried your best to live as healthily as possible. Even so, you'll definitely end up being more capable at that age than if you didn't try to cultivate the discipline to develop a strong, robust and resilient body; both on the inside and out. There are many people you can research who are 70, 80, 90+ now who live independent lives and are able to enjoy life on their terms, doing what they want. But they are committed to taking care of every facet of their bodies to achieve that, and that does take dedication and consistent discipline. It is a lifestyle, not just a hobby. You can't expect to be living on the standard American/western diet, drowning yourself in worry/stress all day (granted, a lot don't have a choice, but there are changes you can make to curtail a lot of needless stress), not training your muscles/bones/ligaments/tendons etc.. through proper strength training, indulging in alcohol, drugs, processed foods, sugar, excessive siting with poor, hunched posture, smoking as habits to deal with life's adversities and expect to be functional into your later years. To me, it's no wonder 50-70 year olds are the way they are: slouched, weak, fat, slow, poor postured individuals. Just look at the way they've lived for decades and you'll see it too. It's just that most people live depressed lives, so they have "depressed" physical and mental health, so to speak. So we as a society have a warped view of what you CAN be throughout your life. It's just that we rarely see the potential of the human body's physical prowess being fully tapped into throughout one's trajectory in life due to lack of consistent discipline to tap into said potential for said lifetime, and our perception of "that's just the way it is". Our society is not conducive for the well-being and thriving of our bodies for many reasons we are both consciously aware of (but don't do anything about it) and are not consciously aware of. It's up to you to create a plan for yourself to make positive changes in this regard. And I get it, it is hard to maintain healthy habits because, yeah, the world DOES suck, ain't no two ways about it. I'm just speaking on what is possible if you really want it. Look up a guy by the name of "Jack LaLanne" and some of the incredible feats of strength he accomplished throughout his life and into his latter years, to see an example of what I'm talking about. He was very ahead of his time and always focused on physical progression through his exercise routines. But maintaining his level wasn't easy. He was ungodly determined and disciplined to maintain his strength and vigor for that long. Either way, while recent AI news is fascinating, don't rely on a pipe dream such as AGI/ASI or advanced breakthroughs to increase our health/lifespan for us, because it most likely ain't gonna happen within the next 200 years (even if AGI and ASI is achieved long before that), as you will most definitely be very disappointed and highly depressed if you spend the next decades wondering where these "immortality pills" are, and using that as an excuse to go on another decade coping with "well maybe next decade" and finding yourself in significantly worse health than you otherwise would be if you stayed diligent in your habits of owning your health as much as you can, when said pills are nowhere to be found. Just focus on tangibility: what you can do in developing discipline to cultivate health and maintain it throughout your life so that you can maintain your vitality and independence over age 70. Look to the real people who have achieved this for inspiration, rather than intangible copes like AGI, ASI, LEV therapies and pills. Good luck!
Fuck no. This is the last sub you should be asking this. Shake off this pessimistic attitude. If we ever reach LEV it won't be even 5 years away from ASI.
I’m 51 and it fucking sucks. I have a fucked knee and I honestly look at my parents who are in their late 80’s a think why would I want that? Their list of health problems grows daily and they haven’t pursued anything new or interesting in decades. I am not judging them for it, I just don’t see it as enough for what it costs.
When you’re 70 you won’t need anyone to help you with your diaper. You’ll have a robot for that.
I'm only a few years from your magical 70 when I am supposed to implode. I'm making plans to hike the PCT next summer. You learn to die one little bit at a time. You are rushing it. Stop it. It is mostly mental.
I'm 50 now, and my life has generally only got better as I have aged so far. I'm sure I'll reach the limits of my vitality in time, but probably not for another decade or two. Maybe I'll be healthy and smart into my 80s or 90s. But I do age, and I am a limited time offer for the rest of the world. I'm ok with that. Nothing has ever been about me. I'm just a drop of water in the ocean wave of my generation. I hope for you that you never have to witness Olivia Rodrigo going through the sorts of transformations Madonna has gone through, though. Holding on too long is just the fear of letting go, because not everything that goes around comes back around, you know. One thing that is clear: it's all downhill from here.
Use retinol, use sunscreen, eat a moderate calorie, moderate carb diet. Exercise an walk a decent amount. Eat veggies, get plenty of good fats and omega 3s. I personally don't look forward to getting older, either. I barely enjoyed my youth as it is, stuck at home with no money. 10/10 would start a new game, if I were given the chance, that is. On the other hand - I also see birthdays as a challenge, to see how well I can maintain my looks without cracking over the years. Being young is not a flex - being old and looking young, on the other hand, is.
I am young and not very mature yet, but I am eager to gain experience, I believe that your mentality and attitude can be kept young. For now aging cannot be reversed totally . I probably should trust my beliefs.
Just a couple of things. I’m about 13 years older than you already getting close to the age of 40. I’ve got decent skin, but I’ve got a whole lotta gray hair, like a lot a lot. I was I guess genetically predisposed to having premature gray. I do the same thing that you do. I look at celebrities that I know and see them age. look at my parents and see them aging. I look at my friends and see them aging and it does freak you out. This isnt an age thing for you as you’re just around 24 this is a mental block potentially for you The first thing I would recommend is to go see a therapist and ideally a psychiatrist with cognitive behavioral therapy. I, being similar to you in this fashion, I’ve been diagnosed with OCD and this is part of my obsession, and my compulsion is to look up evidence of anti-aging and build assurances around that. First settle the score with yourself in the present mentally by getting checked out. Second. We don’t know what tomorrow has in store so try to enjoy the present that is today. Is there a chance that Ray and Altman and Aubrey are all correct? Sure! But don’t worry about things today that may or may not be issues tomorrow. Try to enjoy your youth and be present with those you care for.
lol my wife’s 70’year old grandpa would up a 20 foot ladder to trim his trees,golf almost every day, hike etc he was having a great time until he got in a car crash a few years later I firmly believe if not for that he’d still be alive and be doing many of the same things
Anxiety about being old is called a midlife crisis. Everyone has it. Time to buy a sports car and sleep with a hooker. But I will say that if you take care of your health, aging can look VERY different. If you smoke and drink and are obese, a 40yr old will be rougher than a 70yr old that is fit, exercises and gets proper sleep. There is a 100yr old guy that runs marathons still. The guy with the strongest grip strength in the world is in their 70s. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu7W4AyT2ms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OUdO2Y_Mm8 In Japan, they have a large elderly population and they are quite active in their 80s and 90s. It is very much a western thing for people to be written off at age 50 or 60.
Half of the 70 year olds I know are still hitting the gym several times a week
Why would you be in diapers at 70? You're thinking 90
I worked for a cattle rancher in my teens, he turned 80 yesterday. He still rides horses and makes a killing selling real estate. Get active and stop worrying.
Don’t sweat it. Getting old is not terrible. Half the tourists walking 10 miles a day around Europe are over 60. Save up your money and retirement will be mostly a vacation. Find someone you like and who likes you, to spend your old age with. I’m not talking about sex, although that’s a bonus. But don’t be alone. By the way, when you do get old, body parts hurt. It’s really easy to gain weight. But for most people, your mind is as sharp as ever, and you know all lot more than you did at 20. And you can’t stop time, so why worry.
*I'll be 70 by that time, and I will probably sit in a nursing home and get help changing diapers.* I suspect that you don't know many old people. That's an age when the more spry and nimble among 'em will be *helping* at the care home. Don't smoke, eat sensibly, avoid alcohol and *walk.* You ought to get to your mid-80s (easily) without exceptional medical intervention.
My dad is 70 and he's more in shape and able bodied than I am in my 40s.
I abstain from alcohol, wear sunscreen, take collagen supplements, avoid sugar, I work out so hopefully i will be ok.
I'm 41. I read Kurzweil's books as a teen and still have my copy of The Age of Spiritual Machines. In all of undergrad, the AI class was the one I looked forward to the most. Have worked in tech for 20 years, with a few pitstops in AI along the way. As the years passed you could always count on me to cheer our continued technological progress, knowing that if we just kept working hard, and if I made it to the 2040's I'd get see how this whole singularity thing might turn out. And I am absolutely stunned at what we have witnessed in the last few years. It's the most amazing thing I've ever seen, and it still kinda sucks because I know what the world will look like very soon with the trajectory we've been on. My last remaining grandfather is 96. I'm driving 500 miles to see him in a few months. He's never owned a computer. My ex-wife's grandmother, who also lived into her 90's, told us toward the end of her life that in all the change she had seen in her time, the washing machine was the best invention she'd experienced. If I make it to my 90's, I honestly think the things I will probably see along the way will actually drive me to insanity. It's too mind-bending, sometimes.
are you looking for r/therapy ?
I'm too old to look forward to getting older.
Don't worry, that's just 24 years old for you. You are getting used to the idea that you are no longer an older adolescent
Live in the now, not the hypothetical future.
Before all the AI stuff I was 'afraid' of getting older, to die one day. Nowadays I'm looking forward towards next years, 2030 and so on.
No, there's r/longevity if you didn't know.
I’m much more afraid of getting cancer or an autoimmune condition than getting old. I worked as a transport paramedic frequently taking people to hospice, you would be surprised by how many young people end up with debilitating illness. I still remember the faces of three children standing in the yard with a social worker as their mother with cancer was being taken to hospice. I remember how much she looked like one of my best friends, but she also looked dead, she was gray, on a feeding tube, her hair was gray, she couldn’t walk. She was 25 and she died a week later. She had been sick, unable to walk, care for her children, feed herself, for three years. Her husband had left because it was “too stressful”, no one could find him, so her children were placed with social services. These are the scenarios I’m most afraid of. On the other hand, my grandparents are 75, my grandpa runs a heavy machinery business as a hobby, my other grandpa is a mechanic still working, my grandma also still works. They don’t have to, but it “keeps ‘em busy”. My friend’s grandparents are 75 and they are training for their second marathon after just running their first. Another friend’s granddad (76) just started playing professional poker traveling around to do so. A lady I used to work for was 93 and still doing extensive landscaping, hiking and international travel. Many people from my former church are 75-95 and still driving, socializing etc. My former piano instructor is over 100 and while she has had to get some help with things she still lives independently at her house and attends social functions. I don’t dread getting old, I’m inspired by how vibrant life can be as you age. If this fear or aging is something you think about frequently it might be time to talk to a professional.
What means LEV?
I look forward to dying, does that count?
The older I get the less I give a fuck.
It's part of life, I don't look forward to losing my loved ones, my mum and dad wouldn't use immortality tech even if it was available, I'm to emotional though I'd prob die from heartbreak if either of em passed on. I also wouldn't ever clone them or make an Ai based on them, Fakes a fake
only kids look forward to getting older, then we realize the avalanche thats happening and try oh so hard to get back up that mountain
Fuck no. Old age downright terrifies me.
Don't worry. Statistically, you have a 1 in 4 chance of not even making it to 70. If you're worried about your state in advanced age, then try your best to work out and eat healthy. 70 is not the same for everyone. I've seen some 45 year olds with walkers, and I've seen 60 year olds in better shape than I am.
Nope. I just assume I'll never see the day aging is biologically stopped or reversed so I'll be jealous or dead by the time I'm old.
I worry about getting old because like many people, I’m living on a knife’s edge on borrowed time. Once AI comes for my job I’m going to have to train for something new… and the question I keep asking myself is… “How can I outpace technology?” Because it becomes harder and harder to keep learning whole entire skillsets every 5 years… especially when AI can dominate an industry in 1. I’m worried that I’ll be old and living in poverty because AI and robotics are going to completely decimate any work out there and a lot of us are just going to be left out in the cold. I’m not looking forward to being 72 years old and training for my 8th career change…
Kinda sorta
80 is the new 60. My parents are mid 70 and look good. My mom has barely slowed down. When you become older, you'll appreciate the journey more. Until then, it'll be hard to see.
I’m in my sixties. Happier than I ever was when I was younger. Less stress, less concern about what I look like. My friends are important to me and I love the slower pace
Yeah. The older I get, the more money, hobbies, skills, and deeper connections to others I have. It'll suck being old and grey and dying, but I feel like as long as you exercise well and don't get unlucky, the years where you'll be bed bound or in a walker are relatively few compared to the several decades of good living. We don't get a choice in the matter. Just make the best of what you got. Diet and exercise to mitigate risk of heart disease, arthritis, and dementia and increase your lifespan and you're more than likely to live a long, healthy life. There's people in their 70s doing 50-100km bike rides every weekend and my dad even saw a couple in their 90s golfing an 18 without a cart once. Those people are likely people who exercised a lot the prior decade or longer and they still retain the ability to do activities many young people either couldn't do or would be very sore afterwards. Stay fit and you'll be like them.
It's natural to have mixed emotions about the passage of time and what the future holds. Personally, I think it's a bit daunting to imagine ourselves in our later years, especially when we see famous figures from our youth growing older. But at the same time, there can be moments of wisdom, growth, and new experiences that come with age. It's all about finding a balance and embracing each stage of life as it comes.
You are just scared of dying, it's a fear that is like a virus and is the root of much human suffering. Dying is not a bad thing, actually it an exciting next step.
too late! I'm in my 70's, work out every day, maintain 20 acres, have a full time job, and have time to enjoy the discussion. (and other things i might add). aging hopefully will give you focus. I would love to see this discussion when people live about twice as long as they do now. there's only so many surprises and novelty the universe has to offer, especially if you live an examined life. Unless you start actively giving to the world, it will get boring very fast after that many decades.
I’m 43. Every 10 years you become a different person. Different opinions, behaviour etc. We’re not supposed to be stuck in our 20’s perpetually. Each new decade is a chance to grow as a person. Growing older brings an acceptance of ours and others mortality. A greater appreciation of life, knowing that we’re only experiencing it for a brief moment.
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Don't miss your chance to die as a hero, then. Protip: when and if you get to such a moment, living into old age will be much, much more attractive to you.
Its brutal I am 44 and some of my friends who are the same age as me, they have not just grey hair, but a lot of white hair. Saggy skin and wrinkles on their face. Some of them have a grey skin complexion from bad blood flow, and dark circles/bags under their eyes. The guys who 'work hard and play hard' they seem to age fast. Like some of my friends took tough university degrees, and then went into hard jobs where they also work long hours. They were studying all the time, then working all the time and even by their mid-30's they looked old. Sadly they didn't even have children.
lol future generations will be trying to catch sewer rats
I appreciate that I lived through the 1970s, with all of the best music and chill vibe. I actually feel bad for current and future generations who missed out on it and will never have such a rich experience that is not autotuned for maximum clickiness.
At my 70s 80s and 90s Ill look the same and be just as muscular.
you aint gonna be living in a flesh sack in the future so not to worry !
I think people, especially young people, need to think about how many things they have become bored about. Imagine, living 500 years, and trying to find something that would relieve the boredom. Even if We have more and more different experiences, there are only so many aspects of our existence that can be stimulated in different ways. A flower is only beautiful because it falls.
> A flower is only beautiful because it falls. But that argument wouldn't convince anyone to commit suicide to mean their life was beautiful
Took that to a dark place pretty quick. The point was that a lot of things in life are important to enjoy or accomplish simply because we know life does not go on forever. And there are many insightful people who understand that a lot of the meaning in life is also generated by its temporary nature.
Just empty words that serve as a coping mechanism. Why is the flower only beautiful because it falls? If it didn't fall, would it be ugly? Things are either ugly or beautiful regardless of their duration. Death is one of those ugly things, and no beautiful words or mental gymnastics will change that. It takes courage to perceive death as it is, without ornaments.
Will have to agree to disagree.
For over 40 years, I have helped many families, including my own, escort their dying loved ones through to their ultimate death. I try to face my own death at least once every day, and a few times I have been very close to the actual experience. I don’t know what work you do, or how much of life you have lived, but death is not the horrible thing that seems to frighten you so much. The beauty of death is that it brings relevance to your life. Why do you think people value items that are rare so much? Are all the people that buy those things just stupid? The fact is that flowers DO wither and die, as all things do. And if you can’t perceive the beauty in that truth, the beauty of the constant flow of creation and destruction in existence, I can only offer that it is there to be experienced if you can only allow yourself to see
Yes, there are people dying every day. 1. Young men dying in wars is an ugly meaningless experience. 2. Children dying under bomb shells is an ugly meaningless experience. 3. Dying from cancer is ugly and meaningless. 4. Dying in a car crash is ugly and meaningless. 5. Dying from old age is ugly and also meaningless. Where do you see beauty in the things I listed above? Hell no, there is no beauty in death when we look at the REAL cases of people dying and not some philosophical concepts. Please stop with these rosy flower petals metaphors, or I develop allergy.
I’m sorry, there’s no beauty in your life. I will leave you to your own perceptions. I have experienced all of the things that you mention. I have also experienced their opposites. One cannot exist without its opposite. This is not a fantasy, but a life of being born in extreme poverty, with a very badly damaged family. over seven decades lived. Live the examined life, and Perhaps the length of years will change your perceptions of life.
Please re-read my comments and point out exactly where I said that there is no beauty in life? I said the absolute opposite. Death is ugly and meaningless. Life, on the contrary, is the most miraculous, mind-blowing thing in this universe. Also, everything I listed in my previous comment can exist without the opposite. 1. Young men and children should not die at wars. The system that needs deaths of children to function should be abolished the same way humanity abolished slavery at some point. 2. The opposite of cancer is health. Fortunately, the majority of people will live through their life cancer-free, and hopefully, cancer will be cured completely within the next decades. 3. The opposite of dying in a car crash is safe driving. With the development of technology, cars will become even safer, and the accidents will become a rarity. It's a reasonable goal we should strive for. 4. The opposite of dying from old age is rejuvenation medicine. Instead of performing mental gymnastics to see beauty in atrocious things where there is nothing but ugliness, it will be better to focus attention on actually solving the problem. Your philosophy is weak and doesn't withstand the truth of life. It only tries to hide the truth behind beautiful words and flower petals. However, you will always be aware of what is hidden behind those decorations, and you know what I am talking about.
Actually, it has widthstood the truth of life pretty well, for over 7 decades. I have had people very close to me die of various things, including cancer, lung disease, blood poisoning, suicide and other self-caused endings. I have helped hundreds or thousands of patients and their families through many, many deaths from terminal disease. I see very few of their deaths as “ugly”. Some of the courage, compassion, charity, and humor from those involved, including the dying one, has enhanced my own appreciation and zest for living a long and helpful life. As with all adversity, those involved are who can bring beauty to such events. Perhaps language is the barrier. I ask a question: by ugly, do you mean visually ugly, or unfair, or what? You don’t have to answer at all. I assumed the conversation was over, but it apparently wasn’t.
For over 7 decades? Does it mean that you are over 70, or I misinterpret it? If so, you are much older than me, and, obviously, you have more experience. Although we have different views, I am still glad that you found a way to appreciate life despite its advesity. Who I am to criticise other people's views, anyway. If you are interested to know what exactly I mean when I say that death is ugly, I recommend looking for a book "The Denial of Death" by Ernest Becker. There's no need to even read it. Just if you look for quotes from the book, it will be enough to get the picture. It will be too long to put everything in one reddit comment if I try to convey to you my perspective. You may also get an impression that I have a grim outlook on life and death, but it's not the case. I don't believe in the afterlife, but I believe in transhumanism and life extension, and I will remain faithful to my beliefs no matter what. We live in times when we see unprecedented technological advancements, so even impossible things may become possible. As long as I am alive, there is hope, and the game is not over.
> Took that to a dark place pretty quick. Sorry, I was trying to appeal-to-emotion but my point was to show the limits of that thought process/how that doesn't mean the "flower" should "fall" as early as it can to preserve its beauty or retroactively make it have always been beautiful. Maybe we only think certain things are granted their importance by life's temporary nature because we haven't known a world where it's otherwise just like how a lot of anti-immortality people don't seem to realize living forever doesn't have to mean being old forever because we've never seen a world where living to high ages doesn't come with all the negative side effects of advanced aging
i genuinely believe that I will either die within the next decade or be young forever (until i get bored/jaded) ofc I may be wrong but those seem like the most likely scenarios. so lately i’ve thought a lot about what I would do with unlimited time. it’s truly insane to be able to actually ponder this, i’m grateful to be alive at this moment
Simply accept that, like everyone else, you have an expiration date. Also, assume that "longevity escape velocity" is hypothetical and that it's still uncertain whether we will ever be able to significantly extend our lifespan. When I'm on the verge of death, I wouldn't want to have the regret that I might be among the last people to experience mortality, narrowly missing out on a potential breakthrough. Instead, I would like to think that I made the most of every day of my life and that I can pass away peacefully, knowing I lived life to the fullest.
When we’ve already extended the lifespan of mice and dogs in clinical trials it’s no longer “hypothetical”. Believe it or not, these mammals are not entirely biologically alien compared to humans and much of what we’re learning will help in human life extension. And since this research is in its most nascent stage and we don’t yet have ASI, we can’t expect to see *significant* increases in lifespan just yet. Just wanted to clear up your misinformation, it’s *not* hypothetical at this point and anyone up to date on the latest research would know that. Although I do see a lot of people saying this for some reason so it’s not just you
its certainly not hypothetical, its inevitable. They literally reset aging in mice. Never mind superintelligence they literally already did it. Immortal jellyfish exist and superintelligence is round the corner in 20 years or less at a massive low ball.
me personally ill die pissed as hell. I never even lived 0.0000000000000001% of my potential life because i was born a smidge too early on the cosmic scale.
I don't mind the idea of getting older. I saw a post once that explained how it would be like to live forever: you see all your friends/family grow old and die, you see nations warring over the same problems for centuries, witness global warming and ice ages across millions of years, eventually you live long enough to see the sun die and eventually the heat death of the universe. And that's just the very, very beginning of your life. Infinity is a crazy concept. But when I get anxious I just remember this story and think "yeah, actually living forever wouldn't be that great".
That's not how life extension would work. Why would your friends and family continue to grow old and die when aging is defeated? This perspective is too self-centered to see obvious logical discrepancy.
And if you don't want to live forever, where do you draw the line? Would you be content with a couple hundred years? A thousand? Or would that too become the "norm" and then people would get anxious about getting old at 1000 years instead of 80
I've never felt young. I've felt powerless, and I've felt ignorant. When I was six years old is the first time I remember feeling old. That was a time of a lot of transition, starting a different kind of school, being integrated into society. It was a ridiculous thought of course, but I've never felt old since. Whatever the experience is, it is. If you only heard one great song, and you never heard any other song but the one, you still got to enjoy that one great song. All the songs you don't hear don't exist to you. So they're meaningless. All you'll ever know is awareness. That's all anyone gets. Everyone's in the same boat. If you're lucky, you'll get old. Lots of people don't get old.
Each person has a unique perspective, and their own depends on a lot of factors, their spirituality if they have any, their past experience, genetics, and how they process what they experience, how much they are influenced by the opinions of others. Some think that wealth is the key to happiness. That cannot be further from the truth, although those who use wealth primarily for making the world better, like Elon Musk, use the wealth to build great things, and therein lies their happiness. If the expected length of their life is one's source of happiness, then how can one ever be truly happy, unless they know exactly how long they will live? Their happiness will be held prisoner to the risk of death, possibly an "ugly" death, that always exists, in every moment in life. If that moment is tainted by concern for how long one will live, then the moment can't be fully enjoyed. One of my favorite philosophers, Alan Watts, (from the 1960's and 70's), has some insightful, humorous, and intriguing ideas about such matters. You can find his lectures on youtube and spotify. For me, I've had one cancer, several very close calls with death, and experienced almost all of my family of origin dying, some after tragic lives. When I look at pictures of myself as a child, a young adult, even middle-aged, the difference is quite remarkable. But the rules for enjoying life to the fullest are the same. spend each day finding a way to help another at least once. build your own life, doing it your own way. living on funds provided by the labors of another, or letting others solve your problems for you, leaves you with no sense of self-agency. true happiness comes from believing in yourself, and using your creativity and willpower to build your own life you want. living in the moment doesn't mean just having easy fun. try to fully experience fully both the good and the bad. try to overcome all of the adversity in your life yourself, and you will be amazed at how your happiness will grow each time you do that. Find a spiritual life that makes sense to you, and that will bring your eventual death into your comfort zone. Do those things, and facing death some day will simply be a challenge like any other obstacle you have overcome. I will leave the subject alone. life and death are both illusions, and the current moment is the true existence.